LOL. Millions use to play that game? Abe's own chart shows that SWG never reached above 300,000 subscribers. That's piss poor for a franchise as big as Star Wars.
He may be confusing the announcment of "Million boxes sold" or whatever they announced with actual subscribers. But no, SWG never came close to a million concurrent subscribers.
Saying 300k subscribers is piss poor for Star Wars is not exactly accurate, as you really have to think of the time that it was made. MMORPGs weren't exactly the mass market trend back then. 300k subscribers was a very successful MMO then, and frankly, still is today. Should SWG had a bigger population, even back then? Yes, I think so. Was it because of the game design? No, not entirely. Yes, the sandbox style probably drove off a few people, but that style of game was a lot more accepted back then than it is today. I think a bigger contributor to the SWG performing the way that it did was the large amount of bugs and exploits that were never fixed by SOE.
In the end, many factors contributed to it. But 300k subscribers is a very respectable number, even today. LotRO, which is a huge franchise, is pushing what, 100k subscribers in a linear style game?
"Calling pre-CU a bad game is probably one of the most rediculous things i've ever heard. ...."
Right there is where your argument goes off the rails. Just because you found the game great does not mean that anyone who finds it the opposite is wrong. I tend to find your sentimetns a lot on this board from other posters as well. For you, the game was great and inovative. Nothing I say will change what you experienced in game and I'm not trying to do so.For me the game was a tedious and boring piece of shit that made everything much more difficult that it needed to be.Nothing you say will change what I experienced in game. Doesn't mean I'm lying or exagerating.
This is some really good stuff.. lol SWG vet forums are that a way >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yeah.. gotta love SWG.. I miss the TEF ganking at mission terminals.. I miss the rubberband warping.. I miss the class INbalances.. (I'm a CM, let me lob a gas bomb thru this wall).. lol I miss the halo grinding (what a concept).. I miss the broken economy.. (why SOE nerfed the mission terminals) I miss player cities that normally resembled FORTs.. lol I miss the militia ganking on covert unflagged players.. (THIS was so exploited SOE had to step in and disarm the militia) LOL I miss running out to missions ONLY to find that the "nest" or "camp" was bugged and didn't spawn.. I miss having my pet Rancor, like EVERYONE else (have you forgetten the title we gave this game " Pet Wars".. I haven't) I miss having a patch after patch that was normally nerfing and changing the game as often as a babies diaper.. lol I miss reading all the HATE post on the SWG forums.. got so bad that SOE had to change the forum rules to clean it up a bit for possible new customers.. LOL.. I miss going to planets like Rori (which was my starting point) and NEVER running into a soul after the first couple months.. Rori became a ghost planet.. LIKE all the rest wtih the exception of Naboo and Corusant.. Crafting profession was so broken, and inbalance and the Devs at SOE didnt' give a shit, nor did they want to listen.. They thought they were god's of the computer world.. ( I bet any of them now WISH they had a job at Blizzard) lol I miss buying 2 or 3 accounts just so I can enjoy playing more then 1 style.. C'mon really now.. What other successful mmo gives you 1 toon per server? I'm trying to visualize EQ or WoW has limiting 1 toon per server.. hmm ROFL.. This list can go on and on and on.. but I thnk you get the idea.. TOR is here to stay and I hope it's done right, and wish to G*d, that the SWG vet fanbois would go home.. I for one am tired of their rantings over 3 year old spilled milk.. Where is that "beating a dead horse" picture.. I love that . PS.. GO MOAKY..
listing all the bugs in a game, doesn't make it a bad game. i will admit, BIoware shouldn't attempt to make a SWG remake... it's a different development team and it would probably come out horribly.
however you acting like SWG was some pos game is just total bullsh*t. when every other MMO was doing X... SWG was doing Y. the player driven economy from that game, beats the hell out of anything around currently. plus half the sh*t you're complaining about, is purely opinion based. class imbalance was an issue and it needed some fixes... but what other game allowed you to make custom classes like SWG? complaining about hologrinding? the only people who b*tched about hologrinding were the people who couldn't handle it. as a system is made a lot of sense, and the guessing made it interesting... but than a bunch of babies cried because they didn't know when they would unlock... which was the whole FUN of the system. let's not forget the crafting system you are complaining so much about, you know the one driven completely by players... instead of killing the same retarded NPC a millions times to get some loot... you earned money however you wanted and purchased the items from actual players, not npc's.
there are SO many flaws in your arguments, but i'm not going to sit here and pick apart everything. maybe half of your post is legit bugs, while all the rest is just skewed opinion or personal dislikes. the system needed to be balanced not completely removed. if i had to guess i'd say you read everything you know about pre-CU on some message boards, instead of actually experiencing it.
name me one game that is even half as inovative as SWG was. explain to me why the SWG community went from Millions to Tens of Thousands after the NGE release? i guess we're all retarded and you got it all figured out?
Dispute you? You have got to be kidding me.. right? lmaoooo Read your last section and get back to me when you come out of la la dreamland you're living in.. lmao
clearly you're having a very difficult time reading. let me help you, quoted from my post:
"shame you can't dispute anything... i mean other than the misinterpretation of the "subscription" part of my post."
i like how you left that part out when quoting me... your so sly, no really you are.
LOL. Millions use to play that game? Abe's own chart shows that SWG never reached above 300,000 subscribers. That's piss poor for a franchise as big as Star Wars.
He may be confusing the announcment of "Million boxes sold" or whatever they announced with actual subscribers. But no, SWG never came close to a million concurrent subscribers.
Saying 300k subscribers is piss poor for Star Wars is not exactly accurate, as you really have to think of the time that it was made. MMORPGs weren't exactly the mass market trend back then. 300k subscribers was a very successful MMO then, and frankly, still is today. Should SWG had a bigger population, even back then? Yes, I think so. Was it because of the game design? No, not entirely. Yes, the sandbox style probably drove off a few people, but that style of game was a lot more accepted back then than it is today. I think a bigger contributor to the SWG performing the way that it did was the large amount of bugs and exploits that were never fixed by SOE.
In the end, many factors contributed to it. But 300k subscribers is a very respectable number, even today. LotRO, which is a huge franchise, is pushing what, 100k subscribers in a linear style game?
"Calling pre-CU a bad game is probably one of the most rediculous things i've ever heard. ...."
Right there is where your argument goes off the rails. Just because you found the game great does not mean that anyone who finds it the opposite is wrong. I tend to find your sentimetns a lot on this board from other posters as well. For you, the game was great and inovative. Nothing I say will change what you experienced in game and I'm not trying to do so.For me the game was a tedious and boring piece of shit that made everything much more difficult that it needed to be.Nothing you say will change what I experienced in game. Doesn't mean I'm lying or exagerating.
it wasn't because you said you didn't enjoy the game, or that you think pre-CU was not a good system. it was the level and depth in which you express your dislike... as you so boldly put it "a piece of shit". i don't know how else to reiterate just how unique the player experience was compared to every other run of the mill MMO out there. i'm not asking you to look back on the game like i do, or share the same memories as me. but for a game that did something that no one else was doing... describing it as "a piece of shit" is probably one of the most exadatered opinions i've ever heard... seriously.
LOL. Millions use to play that game? Abe's own chart shows that SWG never reached above 300,000 subscribers. That's piss poor for a franchise as big as Star Wars.
He may be confusing the announcment of "Million boxes sold" or whatever they announced with actual subscribers. But no, SWG never came close to a million concurrent subscribers.
Saying 300k subscribers is piss poor for Star Wars is not exactly accurate, as you really have to think of the time that it was made. MMORPGs weren't exactly the mass market trend back then. 300k subscribers was a very successful MMO then, and frankly, still is today. Should SWG had a bigger population, even back then? Yes, I think so. Was it because of the game design? No, not entirely. Yes, the sandbox style probably drove off a few people, but that style of game was a lot more accepted back then than it is today. I think a bigger contributor to the SWG performing the way that it did was the large amount of bugs and exploits that were never fixed by SOE.
In the end, many factors contributed to it. But 300k subscribers is a very respectable number, even today. LotRO, which is a huge franchise, is pushing what, 100k subscribers in a linear style game?
"Calling pre-CU a bad game is probably one of the most rediculous things i've ever heard. ...."
Right there is where your argument goes off the rails. Just because you found the game great does not mean that anyone who finds it the opposite is wrong. I tend to find your sentimetns a lot on this board from other posters as well. For you, the game was great and inovative. Nothing I say will change what you experienced in game and I'm not trying to do so.For me the game was a tedious and boring piece of shit that made everything much more difficult that it needed to be.Nothing you say will change what I experienced in game. Doesn't mean I'm lying or exagerating.
it wasn't because you said you didn't enjoy the game, or that you think pre-CU was not a good system. it was the level and depth in which you express your dislike... as you so boldly put it "a piece of shit". i don't know how else to reiterate just how unique the player experience was compared to every other run of the mill MMO out there. i'm not asking you to look back on the game like i do, or share the same memories as me. but for a game that did something that no one else was doing... describing it as "a piece of shit" is probably one of the most exadatered opinions i've ever heard... seriously.
SWG was great in concept, however, I don't base my liking of a game on "potential". SWG was riddled with bugs and non working content. Perhaps if SWG were released in a more playable form then it would still be thriving today, but alas, that isn't what happend now is it?
It's a Jeep thing. . . _______ |___| \_______/ = |||||| = |X| \*........*/ |X| |X|_________|X| You wouldn't understand
Regardless of any discussion about the games. Regardless of the flamefest and bash-fest that's going on between SWG-Veterans and SWG-Haters. Regardless of all these things and regardless how good/bad SWG was...
I want SW: TOR.
Why? Because I like the era much more than I like the original series. Don't get me wrong, I love the Original Trilogy and adore it and hated Lucas when he made the prequels and hated him even more when he put that stupid whiny brat at the end of Episode 6 as a force-ghost instead of the actor who actually played in that movie.
Still, I love the setting more. I enjoy it, have enjoyed it in several P&P RPG sessions, have enjoyed it in Forum as well as IM RP and the rich history, the amazing background and the exciting setting have captured me from moment one.
So yeah...I want TOR. Not because SWG was a bad game (which in some ways it was, in other ways it wasn't), but simply because I want to play in the Old Republic era. XD
And I trust BioWare to make the game in a way that i can enjoy the story of my character in that setting. *shrugs*
You make a really good point, if you are solely going from a lore perspective on which you prefer. The setting for the KotOR games is much more fitting for an MMO than the original trilogy setting is. Making an mmo fitting of the original trilogy setting is hard because you have a massive imperial army that controls everything, and a small rebel fighting force that is supposed to be in hiding. It's hard to make people playing rebels to stay in hiding.
I do think this time line will be a lot better for an MMO, because you have two evenly powered sides, and a lot more freedom for the developers to work with.
Good point.
You agree with me!!! <.< >.>
The world is coming to an end!!!!!
Errr, yeah. But anyway, yes, that was the point. Not only is it more fitting for an MMO (for the reasons you mentioned) it's also much better for a "Story"-driven MMO. More stories to tell, because the main timeline is not as rigid as it is in the original Trilogy.
I guess you haven't noticed, but it isn't the first time that has happened. Our opinions don't clash on everything, and I've always respected your opinion because you present it in a respectable manner.
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike Loved: Star Wars Galaxies Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.
LOL. Millions use to play that game? Abe's own chart shows that SWG never reached above 300,000 subscribers. That's piss poor for a franchise as big as Star Wars.
He may be confusing the announcment of "Million boxes sold" or whatever they announced with actual subscribers. But no, SWG never came close to a million concurrent subscribers.
Saying 300k subscribers is piss poor for Star Wars is not exactly accurate, as you really have to think of the time that it was made. MMORPGs weren't exactly the mass market trend back then. 300k subscribers was a very successful MMO then, and frankly, still is today. Should SWG had a bigger population, even back then? Yes, I think so. Was it because of the game design? No, not entirely. Yes, the sandbox style probably drove off a few people, but that style of game was a lot more accepted back then than it is today. I think a bigger contributor to the SWG performing the way that it did was the large amount of bugs and exploits that were never fixed by SOE.
In the end, many factors contributed to it. But 300k subscribers is a very respectable number, even today. LotRO, which is a huge franchise, is pushing what, 100k subscribers in a linear style game?
"Calling pre-CU a bad game is probably one of the most rediculous things i've ever heard. ...."
Right there is where your argument goes off the rails. Just because you found the game great does not mean that anyone who finds it the opposite is wrong. I tend to find your sentimetns a lot on this board from other posters as well. For you, the game was great and inovative. Nothing I say will change what you experienced in game and I'm not trying to do so.For me the game was a tedious and boring piece of shit that made everything much more difficult that it needed to be.Nothing you say will change what I experienced in game. Doesn't mean I'm lying or exagerating.
it wasn't because you said you didn't enjoy the game, or that you think pre-CU was not a good system. it was the level and depth in which you express your dislike... as you so boldly put it "a piece of shit". i don't know how else to reiterate just how unique the player experience was compared to every other run of the mill MMO out there. i'm not asking you to look back on the game like i do, or share the same memories as me. but for a game that did something that no one else was doing... describing it as "a piece of shit" is probably one of the most exadatered opinions i've ever heard... seriously.
SWG was great in concept, however, I don't base my liking of a game on "potential". SWG was riddled with bugs and non working content. Perhaps if SWG were released in a more playable form then it would still be thriving today, but alas, that isn't what happend now is it?
which kind of goes back to my overall point, not sure if i've stated here but regardless...
it had the potential to be something very unique, it's SOE that ruined it not the development team that originally designed it. most all issues in pre-CU were fixable, while other game place aspects were just preference. the games fate was set by SOE not the team who developed it.... who i might add did an unbelievable job in the time they were in control.
games get released and than fixed, you should know this being an MMO player. SWG wasn't perfect at release or even a year after release... but such is the nature of ALL MMO's... not just SWG.
LOL. Millions use to play that game? Abe's own chart shows that SWG never reached above 300,000 subscribers. That's piss poor for a franchise as big as Star Wars.
He may be confusing the announcment of "Million boxes sold" or whatever they announced with actual subscribers. But no, SWG never came close to a million concurrent subscribers.
Saying 300k subscribers is piss poor for Star Wars is not exactly accurate, as you really have to think of the time that it was made. MMORPGs weren't exactly the mass market trend back then. 300k subscribers was a very successful MMO then, and frankly, still is today. Should SWG had a bigger population, even back then? Yes, I think so. Was it because of the game design? No, not entirely. Yes, the sandbox style probably drove off a few people, but that style of game was a lot more accepted back then than it is today. I think a bigger contributor to the SWG performing the way that it did was the large amount of bugs and exploits that were never fixed by SOE.
In the end, many factors contributed to it. But 300k subscribers is a very respectable number, even today. LotRO, which is a huge franchise, is pushing what, 100k subscribers in a linear style game?
MMORPGs might not have been as well played as they are now, but many stiil performed better than SWG at it's so called peak. Everquest at it's peak reached 500k subscribers. Far as I know, there isn't a Everquest movie and it isn't known much outside the game. Star Wars is franchise that has produced 6 movies that have made over a billion dollars, merchandising that has netted mor billions and they couldn't even top everquest; even with people buying multiple accounts it couldn't touch it.I'm not sure about LOTRO as I've never played it because I have never been a fan of the franchise, so why it isn't doing better I have no idea.
World of Warcraft came out a year and a half afterwards and left everyone in the dust. The difference is, World of Warcraft is the one that changed the entire industry and was the trend setter. It is fun to play because (IMO) people got what they were asking for. They wanted to feel like they were playing in the Warcraft universe and they got that. With SWG, I never felt like I was playing in the Star Wars universe. Seeing buffed TKMs kicking the crap out of stormtroopers is not Star Wars. Seeing melee professions dominate ranged is not Star Wars.Seeing jedi duel right next to stormtroopers is not Star Wars.Having hundreds of jedi around when there was only a few alive in that time frame was insulting to the IP. There were so many elemants that were wrong and contradictive for many Star Wars fans and that is why the game wasn't the success it should have been.
I want SW:TOR. Why? because SWG licked taint. The only thing the game had going for it was the crafting system and almost craft driven economy. Was nice to have your droid vendor while offline and players be known for quality of their crafted items. Player housing was cool but I think it should be in an instanced zone and not just randomly placed houses in the killing zones.
I am really looking forward to BIOWARE and LA with SW:TOR. I know BIOWARE will not butcher it like SOE did. If they took the crafting from SWG I would be happy. Thats about it lol
I want TOR. I am a pre cu swg player, and I admit, I loved it, but then sony ofcourse made changes and ruined it, but that has happened now, swg had its time, since it changed, there has been a gap in the market for a great sci fi mmo, (whats more popular for sci fi than star wars?) and I feel bioware can pull it off.
LOL. Millions use to play that game? Abe's own chart shows that SWG never reached above 300,000 subscribers. That's piss poor for a franchise as big as Star Wars.
He may be confusing the announcment of "Million boxes sold" or whatever they announced with actual subscribers. But no, SWG never came close to a million concurrent subscribers.
Saying 300k subscribers is piss poor for Star Wars is not exactly accurate, as you really have to think of the time that it was made. MMORPGs weren't exactly the mass market trend back then. 300k subscribers was a very successful MMO then, and frankly, still is today. Should SWG had a bigger population, even back then? Yes, I think so. Was it because of the game design? No, not entirely. Yes, the sandbox style probably drove off a few people, but that style of game was a lot more accepted back then than it is today. I think a bigger contributor to the SWG performing the way that it did was the large amount of bugs and exploits that were never fixed by SOE.
In the end, many factors contributed to it. But 300k subscribers is a very respectable number, even today. LotRO, which is a huge franchise, is pushing what, 100k subscribers in a linear style game?
MMORPGs might not have been as well played as they are now, but many stiil performed better than SWG at it's so called peak. Everquest at it's peak reached 500k subscribers. Far as I know, there isn't a Everquest movie and it isn't known much outside the game. Star Wars is franchise that has produced 6 movies that have made over a billion dollars, merchandising that has netted mor billions and they couldn't even top everquest; even with people buying multiple accounts it couldn't touch it.I'm not sure about LOTRO as I've never played it because I have never been a fan of the franchise, so why it isn't doing better I have no idea.
World of Warcraft came out a year and a half afterwards and left everyone in the dust. The difference is, World of Warcraft is the one that changed the entire industry and was the trend setter. It is fun to play because (IMO) people got what they were asking for. They wanted to feel like they were playing in the Warcraft universe and they got that. With SWG, I never felt like I was playing in the Star Wars universe. Seeing buffed TKMs kicking the crap out of stormtroopers is not Star Wars. Seeing melee professions dominate ranged is not Star Wars.Seeing jedi duel right next to stormtroopers is not Star Wars.Having hundreds of jedi around when there was only a few alive in that time frame was insulting to the IP. There were so many elemants that were wrong and contradictive for many Star Wars fans and that is why the game wasn't the success it should have been.
you're missing something here. World of Warcraft is aimed at mass appeal, anyone can pick it up and start progressing almost immediately. you're picking apart aspects of the game, that are that way because that's how a video game is played. i don't even totally understand your issue with TKM beating up Stormtroopers... if i remember correctly they have even been referenced in books. anyway, SWG was not a game you just picked up and started playing.... unlike wow where anyone can begin playing and then they choose how far they want to take their skills. MMO's are notoriously unrealistic... that argument holds true with every other game as well.
LOL. Millions use to play that game? Abe's own chart shows that SWG never reached above 300,000 subscribers. That's piss poor for a franchise as big as Star Wars.
He may be confusing the announcment of "Million boxes sold" or whatever they announced with actual subscribers. But no, SWG never came close to a million concurrent subscribers.
Saying 300k subscribers is piss poor for Star Wars is not exactly accurate, as you really have to think of the time that it was made. MMORPGs weren't exactly the mass market trend back then. 300k subscribers was a very successful MMO then, and frankly, still is today. Should SWG had a bigger population, even back then? Yes, I think so. Was it because of the game design? No, not entirely. Yes, the sandbox style probably drove off a few people, but that style of game was a lot more accepted back then than it is today. I think a bigger contributor to the SWG performing the way that it did was the large amount of bugs and exploits that were never fixed by SOE.
In the end, many factors contributed to it. But 300k subscribers is a very respectable number, even today. LotRO, which is a huge franchise, is pushing what, 100k subscribers in a linear style game?
MMORPGs might not have been as well played as they are now, but many stiil performed better than SWG at it's so called peak. Everquest at it's peak reached 500k subscribers. Far as I know, there isn't a Everquest movie and it isn't known much outside the game. Star Wars is franchise that has produced 6 movies that have made over a billion dollars, merchandising that has netted mor billions and they couldn't even top everquest; even with people buying multiple accounts it couldn't touch it.I'm not sure about LOTRO as I've never played it because I have never been a fan of the franchise, so why it isn't doing better I have no idea.
World of Warcraft came out a year and a half afterwards and left everyone in the dust. The difference is, World of Warcraft is the one that changed the entire industry and was the trend setter. It is fun to play because (IMO) people got what they were asking for. They wanted to feel like they were playing in the Warcraft universe and they got that. With SWG, I never felt like I was playing in the Star Wars universe. Seeing buffed TKMs kicking the crap out of stormtroopers is not Star Wars. Seeing melee professions dominate ranged is not Star Wars.Seeing jedi duel right next to stormtroopers is not Star Wars.Having hundreds of jedi around when there was only a few alive in that time frame was insulting to the IP. There were so many elemants that were wrong and contradictive for many Star Wars fans and that is why the game wasn't the success it should have been.
I'm finding that arguing about SWG(or MMO design in general) is a lot like arguing politics. We don't agree, each side thinks the other is completely wrong, and we are never going to convince the others any other way than what they already believe no matter how much we try, but darnit we argue about it anyways.
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike Loved: Star Wars Galaxies Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.
Wow what a lame poll. I personally liked swg, and if they were making an SWG2 I'd surely play. But the realit y is they are making a swtor game. It doesn't matter if someone is really hoping for swg2, it is a completely different game, made by a different company. Yes it is star wars, but star wars is pretty much big enough to be in it's own genre. There wasn't so many people bitching when they made a LEGO Star wars instead of a new jedi accademy, why? Because the are different games, just like SWG and SWtOR. If SWG lovers don't want to ruin SWtOR for themselves before launch stop comparing the two, its apples and oranges.
LOL. Millions use to play that game? Abe's own chart shows that SWG never reached above 300,000 subscribers. That's piss poor for a franchise as big as Star Wars.
He may be confusing the announcment of "Million boxes sold" or whatever they announced with actual subscribers. But no, SWG never came close to a million concurrent subscribers.
Saying 300k subscribers is piss poor for Star Wars is not exactly accurate, as you really have to think of the time that it was made. MMORPGs weren't exactly the mass market trend back then. 300k subscribers was a very successful MMO then, and frankly, still is today. Should SWG had a bigger population, even back then? Yes, I think so. Was it because of the game design? No, not entirely. Yes, the sandbox style probably drove off a few people, but that style of game was a lot more accepted back then than it is today. I think a bigger contributor to the SWG performing the way that it did was the large amount of bugs and exploits that were never fixed by SOE.
In the end, many factors contributed to it. But 300k subscribers is a very respectable number, even today. LotRO, which is a huge franchise, is pushing what, 100k subscribers in a linear style game?
MMORPGs might not have been as well played as they are now, but many stiil performed better than SWG at it's so called peak. Everquest at it's peak reached 500k subscribers. Far as I know, there isn't a Everquest movie and it isn't known much outside the game. Star Wars is franchise that has produced 6 movies that have made over a billion dollars, merchandising that has netted mor billions and they couldn't even top everquest; even with people buying multiple accounts it couldn't touch it.I'm not sure about LOTRO as I've never played it because I have never been a fan of the franchise, so why it isn't doing better I have no idea.
World of Warcraft came out a year and a half afterwards and left everyone in the dust. The difference is, World of Warcraft is the one that changed the entire industry and was the trend setter. It is fun to play because (IMO) people got what they were asking for. They wanted to feel like they were playing in the Warcraft universe and they got that. With SWG, I never felt like I was playing in the Star Wars universe. Seeing buffed TKMs kicking the crap out of stormtroopers is not Star Wars. Seeing melee professions dominate ranged is not Star Wars.Seeing jedi duel right next to stormtroopers is not Star Wars.Having hundreds of jedi around when there was only a few alive in that time frame was insulting to the IP. There were so many elemants that were wrong and contradictive for many Star Wars fans and that is why the game wasn't the success it should have been.
you're missing something here. World of Warcraft is aimed at mass appeal, anyone can pick it up and start progressing almost immediately. you're picking apart aspects of the game, that are that way because that's how a video game is played. i don't even totally understand your issue with TKM beating up Stormtroopers... if i remember correctly they have even been referenced in books. anyway, SWG was not a game you just picked up and started playing.... unlike wow where anyone can begin playing and then they choose how far they want to take their skills. MMO's are notoriously unrealistic... that argument holds true with every other game as well.
The fact that World of Warcraft is has an easier learning curb is jjust one of many reasons why it has stayed successful where others have failed, but it certainly a good one.I don';t think appealing to the masses is a weakness. I think it's smart business to make a game that does a good job of explaining how everything works. If you make the basic functions of the game difficult to figure out then people get frustrated and stop playing.And since MMORPGS are subscriber based, that makes it a detrimental decision. I can't tell you how many people have said that they gave up on EVE because it was too dificult to figure out the basic controls of the game.To me it doesn't make sense to spend millions creating a game that leaves it's basic functions very vague. World of Warcraft leaves many noticable messages that a beginner can use to figure out what works and they even write some of these things into their quests. Again, smart business and not a weakness.
TKMs did not kick the crap out of Stormtroopers in the movies and melee was not the dominant form of combat in the original trilogy. If you are going to make a game based off of a set of movies then the game should respect the rules layed out by the movies. Setting a game in the era of the Empire Strikes Back and having jedi everywhere along with the other things I pointed out kills the imersion factor for many fans of that series.That's why those millions of boxes sold didn't turn into millions of subscribers staying.
If SWG lovers don't want to ruin SWtOR for themselves before launch stop comparing the two, its apples and oranges.
I had to do this exactly. I had to stop fawning over every article and news source about the game with huge exp[ectations, screaming how empty and linier the whole game (design we've heard about/seen so far) looked. I had to stop compairing how they could make it like SWG, but improved if X, Y and Z were done. I had to sit down, and objectively think "This isn't SWG, I'm going to look at what TOR as it's own title has to offer"
... in doing that, I realised: I'm not interested in what TOR is. I'm interested in what I'd like SWG could be. I won't be playing this game.
Most of everything I saw was about the hitbox of the druid, not rubber banding around. Most if not all I seen was from 2007. Even then if you had your druid pushed up against the target you still would be unable to charge because of range restrictions.
Furthermore there is a blue response to the problem that goes as.
"Hey guys. Here is some feedback to some of the issues raised in this thread:
The Tauren character model has a larger attack range than other humanoid models; the feral form models do not benefit from this as the feral form is no longer a Tauren. Simply put: when you shapeshift to a smaller form (feral), you will need to get closer in order to attack – this is not a bug."
If you are saying you was unable to charge it was probably due to high latency, or patch day (which we know is complete hell) or you was far to close to your target. SO again this is not rubber banding, which still exists as a problem in SWG.
---'m sorry, but SWG was flawed in MANY ways. I enjoyed it for its time, but I am glad this game will be nothing like it.
SWG was too much of a sandbox and not enough Star Wars. It was not exciting and was never deserving of the SW name in my opinion. This is not to say that it was not a good game... but a good Star Wars game? I think not.
If it is anything like KOTOR, SW:TOR will be an epic Star Wars experience and a story worthy of the name."---
who ever posted this is totally misinformed about starwars
StarWars is indeed a sandbox universe. Take a look at the movies and books and comics and cartoons... it's sandbox... you have thousands of races, ships, planets, customs, themes, religions, trades, jobs... starwars is nothing but sandbox and should be nothing but sandbox.
The title "StarWars" is just nothing but name of a beautifully created universe by George Lucus... why not use it to it's full potential as sandbox. Having a linear game cripples his creation... i want to explore and enjoy, I don't have to picks sides. SWG was great for that.
I'm so very happy that Bioware is making a game and not some boring social simulation. I love Bioware. These guys are real gamers, not hardcore elitist programmers looking for a simulation that somehow proves they are masters of the universe. I believe this is the reason why the genre is so slow to change. It's saturated with progammers that are just as hardcore / raid centric as the minority they cater to.
With PvE raiding, it has never been a question of being "good enough". I play games to have fun, not to be a simpering toady sitting through hour after hour of mind numbing boredom and fawning over a guild master in the hopes that he will condescend to reward me with shiny bits of loot. But in games where those people get the highest progression, anyone who doesn't do that will just be a moving target for them and I'll be damned if I'm going to pay money for the privilege. - Neanderthal
---'m sorry, but SWG was flawed in MANY ways. I enjoyed it for its time, but I am glad this game will be nothing like it. SWG was too much of a sandbox and not enough Star Wars. It was not exciting and was never deserving of the SW name in my opinion. This is not to say that it was not a good game... but a good Star Wars game? I think not. If it is anything like KOTOR, SW:TOR will be an epic Star Wars experience and a story worthy of the name."---
who ever posted this is totally misinformed about starwars
StarWars is indeed a sandbox universe. Take a look at the movies and books and comics and cartoons... it's sandbox... you have thousands of races, ships, planets, customs, themes, religions, trades, jobs... starwars is nothing but sandbox and should be nothing but sandbox. The title "StarWars" is just nothing but name of a beautifully created universe by George Lucus... why not use it to it's full potential as sandbox. Having a linear game cripples his creation... i want to explore and enjoy, I don't have to picks sides. SWG was great for that.
I think he was saying SOE spent to much time working on the Sandbox feel then the Star Wars feel. Either way it's impossible to say what they was doing and still are. Why bugs went unfixed for years, only for them to start over with NGE and bring a whole new line of bugs.
I think he does have a point about it not having much of a SW feel.
"These guys are real gamers, not hardcore elitist programmers looking for a simulation that somehow proves they are masters of the universe. I believe this is the reason why the genre is so slow to change. It's saturated with progammers that are just as hardcore / raid centric as the minority they cater to."
Well raiding is nothing new and I tend not to like it either but... "real games... not hardcore elitist programmers lor for a similuation...."
so you don't want a simulation nor raids... yet you want real gamers to program the new game, not hardcore programers... well I think we need hardcore programmers to get away from the end-game raids. You post is just very confusing... To me if you want simple and a real gamer program it will tend to be towards raids and quests... a hardcore programmer tends have a more simulation world... ie.. crafting and such...
I played SWG dedicatedly for over 2 years since its release...right up until the total game screwage of the NGE, yet I don't think it was the most brilliant MMO ever conceived, it had plenty of flaws and weird ass game mechanics, before and after the revamping of the game (if revamping is what you want to call it hehe). SW:TOR needs to be its own game and separate from SWG, especially separate from the current incarnation of SWG. It would be cool to have a sandbox element to SW:TOR but there is no reason why they couldn't include a linear story/quest/instance aspect to the gameplay for those who want some directional and story aspects to their sandbox. Frankly I think Bioware would be totally capable of incoporating the two elements, but it reamins to be seen if they will acutally do something like taht or just make a more traditional, linear and "by the books" kinda MMO. IF they don't have space combat and such at some point though I would be truly disappointed.
When you can learn to communicate and have a civil discussion like someone over the age of 7 without resorting to personal attacks or plain out lies, I'll discuss with you. It's fine to disagree. I still discuss with ktanner, even though I think he exaggerates a bit, but he doesn't fall back to personal attacks to make his point. When you have to use personal attacks, it means your argument has fallen flat.
Good day.
Sure I can be civil.
Most of everything I saw was about the hitbox of the druid, not rubber banding around. Most if not all I seen was from 2007. Even then if you had your druid pushed up against the target you still would be unable to charge because of range restrictions.
Furthermore there is a blue response to the problem that goes as.
"Hey guys. Here is some feedback to some of the issues raised in this thread:
The Tauren character model has a larger attack range than other humanoid models; the feral form models do not benefit from this as the feral form is no longer a Tauren. Simply put: when you shapeshift to a smaller form (feral), you will need to get closer in order to attack – this is not a bug."
If you are saying you was unable to charge it was probably due to high latency, or patch day (which we know is complete hell) or you was far to close to your target. SO again this is not rubber banding, which still exists as a problem in SWG.
No, the issue wasn't rubberbanding, but mostly due to lag, either network or server. The issue I had a lot was being "Out of Range" to use any attack while chasing someone in cat form, even though my character on screen looked to be well within range to attack. I think part of the issue is that the position of the feral forms is calculated from the middle of the form where a normal humanoid figure would be standing, and not from the front of the animal where you would expect. Add to that any lag, and I would often find at times I would have to be AHEAD of the person I was chasing before my hits would actually start hitting and I was "In range". Being ahead of them made it incredibly difficult to actually keep following them.
This didn't happen all of the time, but it happened enough to be a problem.
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike Loved: Star Wars Galaxies Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.
Sure I can be civil. Most of everything I saw was about the hitbox of the druid, not rubber banding around. Most if not all I seen was from 2007. Even then if you had your druid pushed up against the target you still would be unable to charge because of range restrictions. Furthermore there is a blue response to the problem that goes as. "Hey guys. Here is some feedback to some of the issues raised in this thread: The Tauren character model has a larger attack range than other humanoid models; the feral form models do not benefit from this as the feral form is no longer a Tauren. Simply put: when you shapeshift to a smaller form (feral), you will need to get closer in order to attack – this is not a bug." Original thread:forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html
If you are saying you was unable to charge it was probably due to high latency, or patch day (which we know is complete hell) or you was far to close to your target. SO again this is not rubber banding, which still exists as a problem in SWG.
No, the issue wasn't rubberbanding, but mostly due to lag, either network or server. The issue I had a lot was being "Out of Range" to use any attack while chasing someone in cat form, even though my character on screen looked to be well within range to attack. I think part of the issue is that the position of the feral forms is calculated from the middle of the form where a normal humanoid figure would be standing, and not from the front of the animal where you would expect. Add to that any lag, and I would often find at times I would have to be AHEAD of the person I was chasing before my hits would actually start hitting and I was "In range". Being ahead of them made it incredibly difficult to actually keep following them.
This didn't happen all of the time, but it happened enough to be a problem.
WoW has a wierd latency issue. Where you may appear to be close you may actually be 10 yards back. My GF plays WoW, so when I use to play, it would seem as though I was further up the road then her, then i would look at her screen and she would be 2 inchs behind me. This effects everybody, not just druids. It happened to me countless times on my rogue. Usually at peak hours.
Either way its not really a "bug" but more so latency.
Not to mention that the poll shows over 60 percent of the people here don't want a rehash of that piece of shit for a game. UNDER 60%, dont want a rehash of that game. Who could forget that great exploit in Kashyyk that large groups of jedi used to grind because they knew that Bounty Hunters couldn't attack them in that spot? I'd enter that area and twenty jedi padawans would quickly jump back in that spot and I couldn't attack them. Or the fact that BH droids didn't work on Kashyyk or Mustafar so jedi used those places to grind? I've never seen a game that encouraged exploiting quite like SWG did.Most games try and fix an exploit as soon as its seen. SOE on the other hand knew about them and did nothing. Last I heard, Bounty Hunter droids STILL don't work on those two planets and that was spotted 3 friggin years ago. you are discussing buggs and exploits which can be found in any game. is this the best you have? its the system that is of consequence. if you believe sw:tor will be free of buggs, regardless of the system it addopts, you are deluding yourself. and swg vets have been pleading to soe to fix ongoing bugs and exploits for ages - its not the players fault the game was run but an incompetent developer. besides, swg2 would not be the same as swg, it would have its improvements, of course.
Comments
He may be confusing the announcment of "Million boxes sold" or whatever they announced with actual subscribers. But no, SWG never came close to a million concurrent subscribers.
Saying 300k subscribers is piss poor for Star Wars is not exactly accurate, as you really have to think of the time that it was made. MMORPGs weren't exactly the mass market trend back then. 300k subscribers was a very successful MMO then, and frankly, still is today. Should SWG had a bigger population, even back then? Yes, I think so. Was it because of the game design? No, not entirely. Yes, the sandbox style probably drove off a few people, but that style of game was a lot more accepted back then than it is today. I think a bigger contributor to the SWG performing the way that it did was the large amount of bugs and exploits that were never fixed by SOE.
In the end, many factors contributed to it. But 300k subscribers is a very respectable number, even today. LotRO, which is a huge franchise, is pushing what, 100k subscribers in a linear style game?
"Calling pre-CU a bad game is probably one of the most rediculous things i've ever heard. ...."
Right there is where your argument goes off the rails. Just because you found the game great does not mean that anyone who finds it the opposite is wrong. I tend to find your sentimetns a lot on this board from other posters as well. For you, the game was great and inovative. Nothing I say will change what you experienced in game and I'm not trying to do so.For me the game was a tedious and boring piece of shit that made everything much more difficult that it needed to be.Nothing you say will change what I experienced in game. Doesn't mean I'm lying or exagerating.
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
listing all the bugs in a game, doesn't make it a bad game. i will admit, BIoware shouldn't attempt to make a SWG remake... it's a different development team and it would probably come out horribly.
however you acting like SWG was some pos game is just total bullsh*t. when every other MMO was doing X... SWG was doing Y. the player driven economy from that game, beats the hell out of anything around currently. plus half the sh*t you're complaining about, is purely opinion based. class imbalance was an issue and it needed some fixes... but what other game allowed you to make custom classes like SWG? complaining about hologrinding? the only people who b*tched about hologrinding were the people who couldn't handle it. as a system is made a lot of sense, and the guessing made it interesting... but than a bunch of babies cried because they didn't know when they would unlock... which was the whole FUN of the system. let's not forget the crafting system you are complaining so much about, you know the one driven completely by players... instead of killing the same retarded NPC a millions times to get some loot... you earned money however you wanted and purchased the items from actual players, not npc's.
there are SO many flaws in your arguments, but i'm not going to sit here and pick apart everything. maybe half of your post is legit bugs, while all the rest is just skewed opinion or personal dislikes. the system needed to be balanced not completely removed. if i had to guess i'd say you read everything you know about pre-CU on some message boards, instead of actually experiencing it.
name me one game that is even half as inovative as SWG was. explain to me why the SWG community went from Millions to Tens of Thousands after the NGE release? i guess we're all retarded and you got it all figured out?
Dispute you? You have got to be kidding me.. right? lmaoooo Read your last section and get back to me when you come out of la la dreamland you're living in.. lmao
clearly you're having a very difficult time reading. let me help you, quoted from my post:
"shame you can't dispute anything... i mean other than the misinterpretation of the "subscription" part of my post."
i like how you left that part out when quoting me... your so sly, no really you are.
try again
He may be confusing the announcment of "Million boxes sold" or whatever they announced with actual subscribers. But no, SWG never came close to a million concurrent subscribers.
Saying 300k subscribers is piss poor for Star Wars is not exactly accurate, as you really have to think of the time that it was made. MMORPGs weren't exactly the mass market trend back then. 300k subscribers was a very successful MMO then, and frankly, still is today. Should SWG had a bigger population, even back then? Yes, I think so. Was it because of the game design? No, not entirely. Yes, the sandbox style probably drove off a few people, but that style of game was a lot more accepted back then than it is today. I think a bigger contributor to the SWG performing the way that it did was the large amount of bugs and exploits that were never fixed by SOE.
In the end, many factors contributed to it. But 300k subscribers is a very respectable number, even today. LotRO, which is a huge franchise, is pushing what, 100k subscribers in a linear style game?
"Calling pre-CU a bad game is probably one of the most rediculous things i've ever heard. ...."
Right there is where your argument goes off the rails. Just because you found the game great does not mean that anyone who finds it the opposite is wrong. I tend to find your sentimetns a lot on this board from other posters as well. For you, the game was great and inovative. Nothing I say will change what you experienced in game and I'm not trying to do so.For me the game was a tedious and boring piece of shit that made everything much more difficult that it needed to be.Nothing you say will change what I experienced in game. Doesn't mean I'm lying or exagerating.
it wasn't because you said you didn't enjoy the game, or that you think pre-CU was not a good system. it was the level and depth in which you express your dislike... as you so boldly put it "a piece of shit". i don't know how else to reiterate just how unique the player experience was compared to every other run of the mill MMO out there. i'm not asking you to look back on the game like i do, or share the same memories as me. but for a game that did something that no one else was doing... describing it as "a piece of shit" is probably one of the most exadatered opinions i've ever heard... seriously.
He may be confusing the announcment of "Million boxes sold" or whatever they announced with actual subscribers. But no, SWG never came close to a million concurrent subscribers.
Saying 300k subscribers is piss poor for Star Wars is not exactly accurate, as you really have to think of the time that it was made. MMORPGs weren't exactly the mass market trend back then. 300k subscribers was a very successful MMO then, and frankly, still is today. Should SWG had a bigger population, even back then? Yes, I think so. Was it because of the game design? No, not entirely. Yes, the sandbox style probably drove off a few people, but that style of game was a lot more accepted back then than it is today. I think a bigger contributor to the SWG performing the way that it did was the large amount of bugs and exploits that were never fixed by SOE.
In the end, many factors contributed to it. But 300k subscribers is a very respectable number, even today. LotRO, which is a huge franchise, is pushing what, 100k subscribers in a linear style game?
"Calling pre-CU a bad game is probably one of the most rediculous things i've ever heard. ...."
Right there is where your argument goes off the rails. Just because you found the game great does not mean that anyone who finds it the opposite is wrong. I tend to find your sentimetns a lot on this board from other posters as well. For you, the game was great and inovative. Nothing I say will change what you experienced in game and I'm not trying to do so.For me the game was a tedious and boring piece of shit that made everything much more difficult that it needed to be.Nothing you say will change what I experienced in game. Doesn't mean I'm lying or exagerating.
it wasn't because you said you didn't enjoy the game, or that you think pre-CU was not a good system. it was the level and depth in which you express your dislike... as you so boldly put it "a piece of shit". i don't know how else to reiterate just how unique the player experience was compared to every other run of the mill MMO out there. i'm not asking you to look back on the game like i do, or share the same memories as me. but for a game that did something that no one else was doing... describing it as "a piece of shit" is probably one of the most exadatered opinions i've ever heard... seriously.
SWG was great in concept, however, I don't base my liking of a game on "potential". SWG was riddled with bugs and non working content. Perhaps if SWG were released in a more playable form then it would still be thriving today, but alas, that isn't what happend now is it?
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You wouldn't understand
You make a really good point, if you are solely going from a lore perspective on which you prefer. The setting for the KotOR games is much more fitting for an MMO than the original trilogy setting is. Making an mmo fitting of the original trilogy setting is hard because you have a massive imperial army that controls everything, and a small rebel fighting force that is supposed to be in hiding. It's hard to make people playing rebels to stay in hiding.
I do think this time line will be a lot better for an MMO, because you have two evenly powered sides, and a lot more freedom for the developers to work with.
Good point.
You agree with me!!! <.< >.>
The world is coming to an end!!!!!
Errr, yeah. But anyway, yes, that was the point. Not only is it more fitting for an MMO (for the reasons you mentioned) it's also much better for a "Story"-driven MMO. More stories to tell, because the main timeline is not as rigid as it is in the original Trilogy.
I guess you haven't noticed, but it isn't the first time that has happened. Our opinions don't clash on everything, and I've always respected your opinion because you present it in a respectable manner.
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic
Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW
Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike
Loved: Star Wars Galaxies
Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.
He may be confusing the announcment of "Million boxes sold" or whatever they announced with actual subscribers. But no, SWG never came close to a million concurrent subscribers.
Saying 300k subscribers is piss poor for Star Wars is not exactly accurate, as you really have to think of the time that it was made. MMORPGs weren't exactly the mass market trend back then. 300k subscribers was a very successful MMO then, and frankly, still is today. Should SWG had a bigger population, even back then? Yes, I think so. Was it because of the game design? No, not entirely. Yes, the sandbox style probably drove off a few people, but that style of game was a lot more accepted back then than it is today. I think a bigger contributor to the SWG performing the way that it did was the large amount of bugs and exploits that were never fixed by SOE.
In the end, many factors contributed to it. But 300k subscribers is a very respectable number, even today. LotRO, which is a huge franchise, is pushing what, 100k subscribers in a linear style game?
"Calling pre-CU a bad game is probably one of the most rediculous things i've ever heard. ...."
Right there is where your argument goes off the rails. Just because you found the game great does not mean that anyone who finds it the opposite is wrong. I tend to find your sentimetns a lot on this board from other posters as well. For you, the game was great and inovative. Nothing I say will change what you experienced in game and I'm not trying to do so.For me the game was a tedious and boring piece of shit that made everything much more difficult that it needed to be.Nothing you say will change what I experienced in game. Doesn't mean I'm lying or exagerating.
it wasn't because you said you didn't enjoy the game, or that you think pre-CU was not a good system. it was the level and depth in which you express your dislike... as you so boldly put it "a piece of shit". i don't know how else to reiterate just how unique the player experience was compared to every other run of the mill MMO out there. i'm not asking you to look back on the game like i do, or share the same memories as me. but for a game that did something that no one else was doing... describing it as "a piece of shit" is probably one of the most exadatered opinions i've ever heard... seriously.
SWG was great in concept, however, I don't base my liking of a game on "potential". SWG was riddled with bugs and non working content. Perhaps if SWG were released in a more playable form then it would still be thriving today, but alas, that isn't what happend now is it?
which kind of goes back to my overall point, not sure if i've stated here but regardless...
it had the potential to be something very unique, it's SOE that ruined it not the development team that originally designed it. most all issues in pre-CU were fixable, while other game place aspects were just preference. the games fate was set by SOE not the team who developed it.... who i might add did an unbelievable job in the time they were in control.
games get released and than fixed, you should know this being an MMO player. SWG wasn't perfect at release or even a year after release... but such is the nature of ALL MMO's... not just SWG.
He may be confusing the announcment of "Million boxes sold" or whatever they announced with actual subscribers. But no, SWG never came close to a million concurrent subscribers.
Saying 300k subscribers is piss poor for Star Wars is not exactly accurate, as you really have to think of the time that it was made. MMORPGs weren't exactly the mass market trend back then. 300k subscribers was a very successful MMO then, and frankly, still is today. Should SWG had a bigger population, even back then? Yes, I think so. Was it because of the game design? No, not entirely. Yes, the sandbox style probably drove off a few people, but that style of game was a lot more accepted back then than it is today. I think a bigger contributor to the SWG performing the way that it did was the large amount of bugs and exploits that were never fixed by SOE.
In the end, many factors contributed to it. But 300k subscribers is a very respectable number, even today. LotRO, which is a huge franchise, is pushing what, 100k subscribers in a linear style game?
MMORPGs might not have been as well played as they are now, but many stiil performed better than SWG at it's so called peak. Everquest at it's peak reached 500k subscribers. Far as I know, there isn't a Everquest movie and it isn't known much outside the game. Star Wars is franchise that has produced 6 movies that have made over a billion dollars, merchandising that has netted mor billions and they couldn't even top everquest; even with people buying multiple accounts it couldn't touch it.I'm not sure about LOTRO as I've never played it because I have never been a fan of the franchise, so why it isn't doing better I have no idea.
World of Warcraft came out a year and a half afterwards and left everyone in the dust. The difference is, World of Warcraft is the one that changed the entire industry and was the trend setter. It is fun to play because (IMO) people got what they were asking for. They wanted to feel like they were playing in the Warcraft universe and they got that. With SWG, I never felt like I was playing in the Star Wars universe. Seeing buffed TKMs kicking the crap out of stormtroopers is not Star Wars. Seeing melee professions dominate ranged is not Star Wars.Seeing jedi duel right next to stormtroopers is not Star Wars.Having hundreds of jedi around when there was only a few alive in that time frame was insulting to the IP. There were so many elemants that were wrong and contradictive for many Star Wars fans and that is why the game wasn't the success it should have been.
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
I want SW:TOR. Why? because SWG licked taint. The only thing the game had going for it was the crafting system and almost craft driven economy. Was nice to have your droid vendor while offline and players be known for quality of their crafted items. Player housing was cool but I think it should be in an instanced zone and not just randomly placed houses in the killing zones.
I am really looking forward to BIOWARE and LA with SW:TOR. I know BIOWARE will not butcher it like SOE did. If they took the crafting from SWG I would be happy. Thats about it lol
I want TOR. I am a pre cu swg player, and I admit, I loved it, but then sony ofcourse made changes and ruined it, but that has happened now, swg had its time, since it changed, there has been a gap in the market for a great sci fi mmo, (whats more popular for sci fi than star wars?) and I feel bioware can pull it off.
AHEM!!!!!!!!
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
He may be confusing the announcment of "Million boxes sold" or whatever they announced with actual subscribers. But no, SWG never came close to a million concurrent subscribers.
Saying 300k subscribers is piss poor for Star Wars is not exactly accurate, as you really have to think of the time that it was made. MMORPGs weren't exactly the mass market trend back then. 300k subscribers was a very successful MMO then, and frankly, still is today. Should SWG had a bigger population, even back then? Yes, I think so. Was it because of the game design? No, not entirely. Yes, the sandbox style probably drove off a few people, but that style of game was a lot more accepted back then than it is today. I think a bigger contributor to the SWG performing the way that it did was the large amount of bugs and exploits that were never fixed by SOE.
In the end, many factors contributed to it. But 300k subscribers is a very respectable number, even today. LotRO, which is a huge franchise, is pushing what, 100k subscribers in a linear style game?
MMORPGs might not have been as well played as they are now, but many stiil performed better than SWG at it's so called peak. Everquest at it's peak reached 500k subscribers. Far as I know, there isn't a Everquest movie and it isn't known much outside the game. Star Wars is franchise that has produced 6 movies that have made over a billion dollars, merchandising that has netted mor billions and they couldn't even top everquest; even with people buying multiple accounts it couldn't touch it.I'm not sure about LOTRO as I've never played it because I have never been a fan of the franchise, so why it isn't doing better I have no idea.
World of Warcraft came out a year and a half afterwards and left everyone in the dust. The difference is, World of Warcraft is the one that changed the entire industry and was the trend setter. It is fun to play because (IMO) people got what they were asking for. They wanted to feel like they were playing in the Warcraft universe and they got that. With SWG, I never felt like I was playing in the Star Wars universe. Seeing buffed TKMs kicking the crap out of stormtroopers is not Star Wars. Seeing melee professions dominate ranged is not Star Wars.Seeing jedi duel right next to stormtroopers is not Star Wars.Having hundreds of jedi around when there was only a few alive in that time frame was insulting to the IP. There were so many elemants that were wrong and contradictive for many Star Wars fans and that is why the game wasn't the success it should have been.
you're missing something here. World of Warcraft is aimed at mass appeal, anyone can pick it up and start progressing almost immediately. you're picking apart aspects of the game, that are that way because that's how a video game is played. i don't even totally understand your issue with TKM beating up Stormtroopers... if i remember correctly they have even been referenced in books. anyway, SWG was not a game you just picked up and started playing.... unlike wow where anyone can begin playing and then they choose how far they want to take their skills. MMO's are notoriously unrealistic... that argument holds true with every other game as well.
He may be confusing the announcment of "Million boxes sold" or whatever they announced with actual subscribers. But no, SWG never came close to a million concurrent subscribers.
Saying 300k subscribers is piss poor for Star Wars is not exactly accurate, as you really have to think of the time that it was made. MMORPGs weren't exactly the mass market trend back then. 300k subscribers was a very successful MMO then, and frankly, still is today. Should SWG had a bigger population, even back then? Yes, I think so. Was it because of the game design? No, not entirely. Yes, the sandbox style probably drove off a few people, but that style of game was a lot more accepted back then than it is today. I think a bigger contributor to the SWG performing the way that it did was the large amount of bugs and exploits that were never fixed by SOE.
In the end, many factors contributed to it. But 300k subscribers is a very respectable number, even today. LotRO, which is a huge franchise, is pushing what, 100k subscribers in a linear style game?
MMORPGs might not have been as well played as they are now, but many stiil performed better than SWG at it's so called peak. Everquest at it's peak reached 500k subscribers. Far as I know, there isn't a Everquest movie and it isn't known much outside the game. Star Wars is franchise that has produced 6 movies that have made over a billion dollars, merchandising that has netted mor billions and they couldn't even top everquest; even with people buying multiple accounts it couldn't touch it.I'm not sure about LOTRO as I've never played it because I have never been a fan of the franchise, so why it isn't doing better I have no idea.
World of Warcraft came out a year and a half afterwards and left everyone in the dust. The difference is, World of Warcraft is the one that changed the entire industry and was the trend setter. It is fun to play because (IMO) people got what they were asking for. They wanted to feel like they were playing in the Warcraft universe and they got that. With SWG, I never felt like I was playing in the Star Wars universe. Seeing buffed TKMs kicking the crap out of stormtroopers is not Star Wars. Seeing melee professions dominate ranged is not Star Wars.Seeing jedi duel right next to stormtroopers is not Star Wars.Having hundreds of jedi around when there was only a few alive in that time frame was insulting to the IP. There were so many elemants that were wrong and contradictive for many Star Wars fans and that is why the game wasn't the success it should have been.
I'm finding that arguing about SWG(or MMO design in general) is a lot like arguing politics. We don't agree, each side thinks the other is completely wrong, and we are never going to convince the others any other way than what they already believe no matter how much we try, but darnit we argue about it anyways.
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic
Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW
Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike
Loved: Star Wars Galaxies
Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.
Wow what a lame poll. I personally liked swg, and if they were making an SWG2 I'd surely play. But the realit y is they are making a swtor game. It doesn't matter if someone is really hoping for swg2, it is a completely different game, made by a different company. Yes it is star wars, but star wars is pretty much big enough to be in it's own genre. There wasn't so many people bitching when they made a LEGO Star wars instead of a new jedi accademy, why? Because the are different games, just like SWG and SWtOR. If SWG lovers don't want to ruin SWtOR for themselves before launch stop comparing the two, its apples and oranges.
He may be confusing the announcment of "Million boxes sold" or whatever they announced with actual subscribers. But no, SWG never came close to a million concurrent subscribers.
Saying 300k subscribers is piss poor for Star Wars is not exactly accurate, as you really have to think of the time that it was made. MMORPGs weren't exactly the mass market trend back then. 300k subscribers was a very successful MMO then, and frankly, still is today. Should SWG had a bigger population, even back then? Yes, I think so. Was it because of the game design? No, not entirely. Yes, the sandbox style probably drove off a few people, but that style of game was a lot more accepted back then than it is today. I think a bigger contributor to the SWG performing the way that it did was the large amount of bugs and exploits that were never fixed by SOE.
In the end, many factors contributed to it. But 300k subscribers is a very respectable number, even today. LotRO, which is a huge franchise, is pushing what, 100k subscribers in a linear style game?
MMORPGs might not have been as well played as they are now, but many stiil performed better than SWG at it's so called peak. Everquest at it's peak reached 500k subscribers. Far as I know, there isn't a Everquest movie and it isn't known much outside the game. Star Wars is franchise that has produced 6 movies that have made over a billion dollars, merchandising that has netted mor billions and they couldn't even top everquest; even with people buying multiple accounts it couldn't touch it.I'm not sure about LOTRO as I've never played it because I have never been a fan of the franchise, so why it isn't doing better I have no idea.
World of Warcraft came out a year and a half afterwards and left everyone in the dust. The difference is, World of Warcraft is the one that changed the entire industry and was the trend setter. It is fun to play because (IMO) people got what they were asking for. They wanted to feel like they were playing in the Warcraft universe and they got that. With SWG, I never felt like I was playing in the Star Wars universe. Seeing buffed TKMs kicking the crap out of stormtroopers is not Star Wars. Seeing melee professions dominate ranged is not Star Wars.Seeing jedi duel right next to stormtroopers is not Star Wars.Having hundreds of jedi around when there was only a few alive in that time frame was insulting to the IP. There were so many elemants that were wrong and contradictive for many Star Wars fans and that is why the game wasn't the success it should have been.
you're missing something here. World of Warcraft is aimed at mass appeal, anyone can pick it up and start progressing almost immediately. you're picking apart aspects of the game, that are that way because that's how a video game is played. i don't even totally understand your issue with TKM beating up Stormtroopers... if i remember correctly they have even been referenced in books. anyway, SWG was not a game you just picked up and started playing.... unlike wow where anyone can begin playing and then they choose how far they want to take their skills. MMO's are notoriously unrealistic... that argument holds true with every other game as well.
The fact that World of Warcraft is has an easier learning curb is jjust one of many reasons why it has stayed successful where others have failed, but it certainly a good one.I don';t think appealing to the masses is a weakness. I think it's smart business to make a game that does a good job of explaining how everything works. If you make the basic functions of the game difficult to figure out then people get frustrated and stop playing.And since MMORPGS are subscriber based, that makes it a detrimental decision. I can't tell you how many people have said that they gave up on EVE because it was too dificult to figure out the basic controls of the game.To me it doesn't make sense to spend millions creating a game that leaves it's basic functions very vague. World of Warcraft leaves many noticable messages that a beginner can use to figure out what works and they even write some of these things into their quests. Again, smart business and not a weakness.
TKMs did not kick the crap out of Stormtroopers in the movies and melee was not the dominant form of combat in the original trilogy. If you are going to make a game based off of a set of movies then the game should respect the rules layed out by the movies. Setting a game in the era of the Empire Strikes Back and having jedi everywhere along with the other things I pointed out kills the imersion factor for many fans of that series.That's why those millions of boxes sold didn't turn into millions of subscribers staying.
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
I had to do this exactly. I had to stop fawning over every article and news source about the game with huge exp[ectations, screaming how empty and linier the whole game (design we've heard about/seen so far) looked. I had to stop compairing how they could make it like SWG, but improved if X, Y and Z were done. I had to sit down, and objectively think "This isn't SWG, I'm going to look at what TOR as it's own title has to offer"
... in doing that, I realised: I'm not interested in what TOR is. I'm interested in what I'd like SWG could be. I won't be playing this game.
Most of everything I saw was about the hitbox of the druid, not rubber banding around. Most if not all I seen was from 2007. Even then if you had your druid pushed up against the target you still would be unable to charge because of range restrictions.
Furthermore there is a blue response to the problem that goes as.
"Hey guys. Here is some feedback to some of the issues raised in this thread:
The Tauren character model has a larger attack range than other humanoid models; the feral form models do not benefit from this as the feral form is no longer a Tauren. Simply put: when you shapeshift to a smaller form (feral), you will need to get closer in order to attack – this is not a bug."
Original thread:forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html
If you are saying you was unable to charge it was probably due to high latency, or patch day (which we know is complete hell) or you was far to close to your target. SO again this is not rubber banding, which still exists as a problem in SWG.
Gonna use this quote someone posted
---'m sorry, but SWG was flawed in MANY ways. I enjoyed it for its time, but I am glad this game will be nothing like it.
SWG was too much of a sandbox and not enough Star Wars. It was not exciting and was never deserving of the SW name in my opinion. This is not to say that it was not a good game... but a good Star Wars game? I think not.
If it is anything like KOTOR, SW:TOR will be an epic Star Wars experience and a story worthy of the name."---
who ever posted this is totally misinformed about starwars
StarWars is indeed a sandbox universe. Take a look at the movies and books and comics and cartoons... it's sandbox... you have thousands of races, ships, planets, customs, themes, religions, trades, jobs... starwars is nothing but sandbox and should be nothing but sandbox.
The title "StarWars" is just nothing but name of a beautifully created universe by George Lucus... why not use it to it's full potential as sandbox. Having a linear game cripples his creation... i want to explore and enjoy, I don't have to picks sides. SWG was great for that.
I'm so very happy that Bioware is making a game and not some boring social simulation. I love Bioware. These guys are real gamers, not hardcore elitist programmers looking for a simulation that somehow proves they are masters of the universe. I believe this is the reason why the genre is so slow to change. It's saturated with progammers that are just as hardcore / raid centric as the minority they cater to.
With PvE raiding, it has never been a question of being "good enough". I play games to have fun, not to be a simpering toady sitting through hour after hour of mind numbing boredom and fawning over a guild master in the hopes that he will condescend to reward me with shiny bits of loot. But in games where those people get the highest progression, anyone who doesn't do that will just be a moving target for them and I'll be damned if I'm going to pay money for the privilege. - Neanderthal
I think he was saying SOE spent to much time working on the Sandbox feel then the Star Wars feel. Either way it's impossible to say what they was doing and still are. Why bugs went unfixed for years, only for them to start over with NGE and bring a whole new line of bugs.
I think he does have a point about it not having much of a SW feel.
Vazrule your not making much sense.
"These guys are real gamers, not hardcore elitist programmers looking for a simulation that somehow proves they are masters of the universe. I believe this is the reason why the genre is so slow to change. It's saturated with progammers that are just as hardcore / raid centric as the minority they cater to."
Well raiding is nothing new and I tend not to like it either but... "real games... not hardcore elitist programmers lor for a similuation...."
so you don't want a simulation nor raids... yet you want real gamers to program the new game, not hardcore programers... well I think we need hardcore programmers to get away from the end-game raids. You post is just very confusing... To me if you want simple and a real gamer program it will tend to be towards raids and quests... a hardcore programmer tends have a more simulation world... ie.. crafting and such...
so what exactly do you want?
I played SWG dedicatedly for over 2 years since its release...right up until the total game screwage of the NGE, yet I don't think it was the most brilliant MMO ever conceived, it had plenty of flaws and weird ass game mechanics, before and after the revamping of the game (if revamping is what you want to call it hehe). SW:TOR needs to be its own game and separate from SWG, especially separate from the current incarnation of SWG. It would be cool to have a sandbox element to SW:TOR but there is no reason why they couldn't include a linear story/quest/instance aspect to the gameplay for those who want some directional and story aspects to their sandbox. Frankly I think Bioware would be totally capable of incoporating the two elements, but it reamins to be seen if they will acutally do something like taht or just make a more traditional, linear and "by the books" kinda MMO. IF they don't have space combat and such at some point though I would be truly disappointed.
/sigh. You aren't even worth it anymore. But here, before I go, I'm going to point out the most obvious lie of them all...
lmgtfy.com/
When you can learn to communicate and have a civil discussion like someone over the age of 7 without resorting to personal attacks or plain out lies, I'll discuss with you. It's fine to disagree. I still discuss with ktanner, even though I think he exaggerates a bit, but he doesn't fall back to personal attacks to make his point. When you have to use personal attacks, it means your argument has fallen flat.
Good day.
Sure I can be civil.
Most of everything I saw was about the hitbox of the druid, not rubber banding around. Most if not all I seen was from 2007. Even then if you had your druid pushed up against the target you still would be unable to charge because of range restrictions.
Furthermore there is a blue response to the problem that goes as.
"Hey guys. Here is some feedback to some of the issues raised in this thread:
The Tauren character model has a larger attack range than other humanoid models; the feral form models do not benefit from this as the feral form is no longer a Tauren. Simply put: when you shapeshift to a smaller form (feral), you will need to get closer in order to attack – this is not a bug."
Original thread:forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html
If you are saying you was unable to charge it was probably due to high latency, or patch day (which we know is complete hell) or you was far to close to your target. SO again this is not rubber banding, which still exists as a problem in SWG.
No, the issue wasn't rubberbanding, but mostly due to lag, either network or server. The issue I had a lot was being "Out of Range" to use any attack while chasing someone in cat form, even though my character on screen looked to be well within range to attack. I think part of the issue is that the position of the feral forms is calculated from the middle of the form where a normal humanoid figure would be standing, and not from the front of the animal where you would expect. Add to that any lag, and I would often find at times I would have to be AHEAD of the person I was chasing before my hits would actually start hitting and I was "In range". Being ahead of them made it incredibly difficult to actually keep following them.
This didn't happen all of the time, but it happened enough to be a problem.
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic
Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW
Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike
Loved: Star Wars Galaxies
Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.
I'd like to see SW: TOR with storyline and character advancement focus. And a huge sandbox MMO with different setting
No, the issue wasn't rubberbanding, but mostly due to lag, either network or server. The issue I had a lot was being "Out of Range" to use any attack while chasing someone in cat form, even though my character on screen looked to be well within range to attack. I think part of the issue is that the position of the feral forms is calculated from the middle of the form where a normal humanoid figure would be standing, and not from the front of the animal where you would expect. Add to that any lag, and I would often find at times I would have to be AHEAD of the person I was chasing before my hits would actually start hitting and I was "In range". Being ahead of them made it incredibly difficult to actually keep following them.
This didn't happen all of the time, but it happened enough to be a problem.
WoW has a wierd latency issue. Where you may appear to be close you may actually be 10 yards back. My GF plays WoW, so when I use to play, it would seem as though I was further up the road then her, then i would look at her screen and she would be 2 inchs behind me. This effects everybody, not just druids. It happened to me countless times on my rogue. Usually at peak hours.
Either way its not really a "bug" but more so latency.