mm if you didnt reach northrend ,everything you saw is pretty much worthless since almost everybody is at northrend and you dont see many player before dalaran once at dalaran and you have to quest in that are there are ton of player but before asde from the city blizzard is pretty much empty like all other 5 years old game i do hope you reached north rend in your 14 day trial because if you didnt see it you missed all the fun ,because that where the fun is right now in wow.
Is that Horde territory? If so, no, I never did because I played Alliance.
mm if you didnt reach northrend ,everything you saw is pretty much worthless since almost everybody is at northrend and you dont see many player before dalaran once at dalaran and you have to quest in that are there are ton of player but before asde from the city blizzard is pretty much empty like all other 5 years old game i do hope you reached north rend in your 14 day trial because if you didnt see it you missed all the fun ,because that where the fun is right now in wow.
Well you just pointed out why WoW seem to fail. I have not played it for a long time however to me it sounds rather bad if you have to work trough 14+ days of content for the fun to start.
mm if you didnt reach northrend ,everything you saw is pretty much worthless since almost everybody is at northrend and you dont see many player before dalaran once at dalaran and you have to quest in that are there are ton of player but before asde from the city blizzard is pretty much empty like all other 5 years old game i do hope you reached north rend in your 14 day trial because if you didnt see it you missed all the fun ,because that where the fun is right now in wow.
Well you just pointed out why WoW seem to fail. I have not played it for a long time however to me it sounds rather bad if you have to work trough 14+ days of content for the fun to start.
My point exactly. You have to enjoy the game from the lowest levels to want to play that far in. If it's not fun for you by level 10, why would you want to continue further? I've never played any MMO that left me feeling that "ho-hum" before or since, with exception of a few of the free to play ones like Deicide.
My hate for WoW is entirely based on the behavior I experienced with the playerbase, the ugly graphics, and the monotany of the game. itself. Also, I think PvP itself is a flaw.
So then you do admit your hate is entirely based on a 14 day trial of the game. I'm not sure how much exposure you can get to a game in 14 days to develop something as strong as a hatred of it, but that seems to be the in thing to do around these parts.
If 14 days is enough time for one to decide they like a game, why is it not enough time to decide they hate it. I love how any disliking of WoW is reduced to "well, it's trendy to hate WoW, so I don't take your arguement seriously, no matter how well constructed your arguement is or what your actual reason is". It further proves my point to me that the WoW playerbase is chock full of people who look for any reason to berate those not like them.
14 days can be quite a long time. I don't need to spend 14 days binge drinking to discover that I really don't enjoy binge drinking anymore, like I did in my heady college years.
I never got the "you didn't play it long enough" argument. I have a pretty good idea if I'm going to like a game or not pretty early on. EVE for example I knew I was going to hate right away; it only took me a few HOURS to hate that game.
Game preference is like sexuality. I didn't have to try sleeping with men for 14 days to discover that I really am straight and that the past 10 years of my marriage to my wife weren't in vain.
I realize that's a bit of a tangent but... yes, 2 weeks of playing a couple hours a day is more than enough time to figure out if you're going to "like" a game or not. Saying otherwise is like telling a person who doesn't like chicken to just keep eating chicken, eventually he'll find a way he likes it prepared. Why should he choke down chicken (heh) when there are so many other foods available?
At the same time it is very disingenuous for someone who has only played the game on a 14 day trial to be commenting on how they hate the end game, the pvp game and so on when they have never really seen those aspects of the game first hand.
It is completely fine if someone says they tried the game, didn't enjoy it and list some reasons why they didn't, but to make other comments seems more like pandering to the masses here instead of being honest about ones experience.
Just like it is misleading to blame wow for somehow forcing end game raiding on another mmo, especially when end game raiding predates world of warcraft by 6+ years as an mmo end game staple.
My hate for WoW is entirely based on the behavior I experienced with the playerbase, the ugly graphics, and the monotany of the game. itself. Also, I think PvP itself is a flaw.
So then you do admit your hate is entirely based on a 14 day trial of the game. I'm not sure how much exposure you can get to a game in 14 days to develop something as strong as a hatred of it, but that seems to be the in thing to do around these parts.
If 14 days is enough time for one to decide they like a game, why is it not enough time to decide they hate it. I love how any disliking of WoW is reduced to "well, it's trendy to hate WoW, so I don't take your arguement seriously, no matter how well constructed your arguement is or what your actual reason is". It further proves my point to me that the WoW playerbase is chock full of people who look for any reason to berate those not like them.
14 days can be quite a long time. I don't need to spend 14 days binge drinking to discover that I really don't enjoy binge drinking anymore, like I did in my heady college years.
I never got the "you didn't play it long enough" argument. I have a pretty good idea if I'm going to like a game or not pretty early on. EVE for example I knew I was going to hate right away; it only took me a few HOURS to hate that game.
Game preference is like sexuality. I didn't have to try sleeping with men for 14 days to discover that I really am straight and that the past 10 years of my marriage to my wife weren't in vain.
I realize that's a bit of a tangent but... yes, 2 weeks of playing a couple hours a day is more than enough time to figure out if you're going to "like" a game or not. Saying otherwise is like telling a person who doesn't like chicken to just keep eating chicken, eventually he'll find a way he likes it prepared. Why should he choke down chicken (heh) when there are so many other foods available?
At the same time it is very disingenuous for someone who has only played the game on a 14 day trial to be commenting on how they hate the end game, the pvp game and so on when they have never really seen those aspects of the game first hand.
It is completely fine if someone says they tried the game, didn't enjoy it and list some reasons why they didn't, but to make other comments seems more like pandering to the masses here instead of being honest about ones experience.
Just like it is misleading to blame wow for somehow forcing end game raiding on another mmo, especially when end game raiding predates world of warcraft by 6+ years as an mmo end game staple.
If you're referring to me, I never said I hate the endgame. I said that WoW is all about endgame. But I do hate PvP, but not just on WoW. That statement applies to all mmos.
scared of this the developers tried to make their games more like wow (eq2 and SWG
Fail. Both EQ2 and SWG were released before WoW.
I think what he meant, and with it he is essentially right, that both, SWG and EQ2 were originally anything BUT WoW but were "WoWified" in an attempt to cater to the same crowd. Ruining both games in the process, btw.
That's not to say that WoW is in any way "bad", but turning a game that was not meant to be WoW into something akin to WoW definitly is. It was marketed as anything but WoW (EQ2 was marketed as a "hard" game with a slow level progression, a lot of emphasis on group play and group leveling, and originally it was, and that appealed to the people who wanted just that).
When a game is changed, you not only lose the crowd you attracted originally, you also won't attract any of those that you try to cater to. Why should anyone leave WoW for a game that's kinda-sorta like WoW?
Originally posted by Chlodwig When a game is changed, you not only lose the crowd you attracted originally, you also won't attract any of those that you try to cater to. Why should anyone leave WoW for a game that's kinda-sorta like WoW?
Hmm. It's only natural that designers borrow successful ideas from each other. The problem isn't at development level. It's at management level. It's about knowing what game you're going to make and, most importantly, WHY this game can't be something different.
Blizzard thinks two steps ahead. By the time they started making WC3, they already had a clear picture of what WoW should look like. Hence WC3/FT storyline reads like a perfect MMO prequel. When they were making WoW, they had plans for expansions up until LVL100.
I'm sorry but other companies just don't seem to have this kind of foresight. Let's take Mythic for example. They had never worked with WAR FB setting before when they SUDDENLY decided to make WHO. OK, that's not a problem yet. But what they did? They cut and reshaped this (very violent and politically incorrect) PnP setting to fit it into "T" rating. OK, maybe they knew better than Games Workshop and had something great in mind. Maybe. But we'll never know because 3/4 of their promises turned out to be wishful thinking. Finally, they rushed an unfinished game AND released it a month before WotLK hit the market.
That's how typical MMO developer paves its way to oblivion.
MMORPG genre is dead. Long live MMOCS (Massively Multiplayer Online Cash Shop).
Part of the reason I stopped playing (and I don't hate the game) was the fact that with other mmo's, you could have this feeling of doing something or exploring an area that you kinda felt not many other people had done before. With WoW, I lost that feeling when it hit its heyday. I feel like anywhere I go and anything I do has been done thousands of times before. For example, I remember farming the gorge of King Xorb (sp?) and thinking man this is cool. Like my own little spot. I wouldn't see anyone the whole time, but I never felt like the world was dead because chat was constant. I don't think WoW can ever give me that feeling. Another reason. WoW became a little too un-fantasy for me. Haris Pilton, Mohawk grenades, etc. If you like that, sort of thing, that's fine. I have nothing against you. But for myself, those things take me out of the fantasy world and almost return you to the real world that I am trying to "escape" from.
Really strange ... because I still play and love wow after years and all classes leveled to max exactly for this, because i have all this feelings you do not have. Beauty is in the eyes of beholder still holds it looks. :-)) In all other games (and have played many) put together I do not find all this.
Alot of ppl in this thread speak about "Best" there is really no best since Best is a subjective term it means different things to everyone else, it doesnt matter how long you discuss there wont be a "Best" MMO, each person will find each own individually, but popular is not a subjective term and we can use it in this context, WoW is the most popular MMO amongst the X million that play it, and I am sure for whatever reason they play it for those X million WoW is the "Best" MMO otherwise they would be playing another, now if we put all these best together like some ppl say EVE is the "Best" and some ppl say EQ2 is the Best and some ppl say LOTRO is the Best, if we quantify the ppl that would be saying those are the best (actually you can put them all together vs WoW) and the ppl saying WoW is the best then more ppl agree that WoW is the best MMO on the market.
In comparison this is how we assess most things in RL for that matter by popular demand, if a product is "rated" badly by most ppl then it will be considered worse quality and no one will buy it, doesnt matter if Joe loves it, its not the best, the McDonald's argument is really flawed since really McDonald's provides other things that are "BEST" in comparison to other restaurants but its definetly not BEST food, ppl seem to only look at the food factor and not at the convenience and or cheap prices, they do provide the best prices and the best convenience (drive thru, 2min wait to get served) and that makes it popular and best to the ppl that visit it at that particular time.
Also in comparison when you vote for a Prime Minister or President he is not always liked by everyone as we have seen over and over, if the majority of ppl vote for him then he is considered the Best match for the job even if 20% of the population disagree and think another is better. All in all best is a subjective term we apply to things we consider good, in a wide scale perspective however best can only be mesured by popularity and by how many ppl think a particular thing is "Best".
best yes there is and was a best buy a new copy of vanilla wow without expension .and that my friend is the game everybody loved and love ,there was lot of world content,lot of instanced content.
dont event know if world content is still there been a while i havent went to level 60 content.
best yes there is and was a best buy a new copy of vanilla wow without expension .and that my friend is the game everybody loved and love ,there was lot of world content,lot of instanced content. dont event know if world content is still there been a while i havent went to level 60 content.
Always surprised why everyone thinks he is the center of the world.
Its the biggest MMORPG ever made, most popular, highest earning, and by far the most dominant. It'll be a long time before an MMORPG overpowers WoW, and with the new graphical update with Cataclysm, add a few more years onto that. The Lore of WoW also makes the limit of expansions quite high indeed. Why would Blizzard stop making a game that makes them billions? Only when WoW becomes very unpopular will that "crime" be dealt. So basically, I'm wondering why that with everyone thread posted, someone comes along and insults WoW. With 13 million active members, all paying £10 per month, it can't be that bad a game, can it? So why dis it as frequent as people do? Thanks!
Do not recall if I ever replied to this and rather than weed through I will reference the OP
The key to this is the assumption that the biggest and most popular means the best. This is a major misconception. I mean seriously the Big Mac outsells a Ruth's Chris steak easily and would you consider it a better food becuase of that? If so you aint never had a good steak.
The reason so many hate Wow is the very reason it is so successful, it dumbed down the genre. WoW has such a large audience because they made the game EASY! You do not need to understand any of the lore to get any of the game. You do not need any kind of RPG skill to play the game, in fact you need no RPG experience or even liking the genre to play the game.
Jump in and kill stuff quick, gain easy loot and level as fast as you can, that is the entire game. When WoW first came out I was excited, I could play a Lich. I jumped in and was going to make a wicked Lich mage and raise an undead army to follow me. Imagine my suprise when I saw Lich babies and stuff running around the screen. Odd I thought and so I made a Dwarven warrior, guess what the start area was nearly identical. Oh there where graphic differences to be sure but the surface fluff was the only real difference there was no difference in the feel of the play.
I played a bit longer and quickly realized that this was a Monty Haul game. For those of you not of the old school this is a game that basically hands players everything for little effort.
The problem is this has spoiled an entire generation of p[otential RPGers to this style of dumbed down, easy to play, no need for brain gaming.
In the end though we all make our choices and I have made mine as have others. So feel free to go enjoy your hamburger made from frozen patties thrown on a quick grill while the rest of us look to experience fine dining and real food that takles time to prepare but provides a million times greater experience.
Jump in and kill stuff quick, gain easy loot and level as fast as you can, that is the entire game. When WoW first came out I was excited, I could play a Lich. I jumped in and was going to make a wicked Lich mage and raise an undead army to follow me. Imagine my suprise when I saw Lich babies and stuff running around the screen. Odd I thought and so I made a Dwarven warrior, guess what the start area was nearly identical. Oh there where graphic differences to be sure but the surface fluff was the only real difference there was no difference in the feel of the play.
I hope all players who ever played WOW reread the above.
And ask yourselves: did this man ever set foot in Azeroth, Undercity, Ironforge, ..?
Of course not. So why does he even post? He actually believes all classes play the same because he reads ... forums.
I guess he's mad his games are empty, the real reason for the hate these days.
Its the biggest MMORPG ever made, most popular, highest earning, and by far the most dominant. It'll be a long time before an MMORPG overpowers WoW, and with the new graphical update with Cataclysm, add a few more years onto that. The Lore of WoW also makes the limit of expansions quite high indeed. Why would Blizzard stop making a game that makes them billions? Only when WoW becomes very unpopular will that "crime" be dealt. So basically, I'm wondering why that with everyone thread posted, someone comes along and insults WoW. With 13 million active members, all paying £10 per month, it can't be that bad a game, can it? So why dis it as frequent as people do? Thanks!
Do not recall if I ever replied to this and rather than weed through I will reference the OP
The key to this is the assumption that the biggest and most popular means the best. This is a major misconception. I mean seriously the Big Mac outsells a Ruth's Chris steak easily and would you consider it a better food becuase of that? If so you aint never had a good steak.
The reason so many hate Wow is the very reason it is so successful, it dumbed down the genre. WoW has such a large audience because they made the game EASY! You do not need to understand any of the lore to get any of the game. You do not need any kind of RPG skill to play the game, in fact you need no RPG experience or even liking the genre to play the game.
Jump in and kill stuff quick, gain easy loot and level as fast as you can, that is the entire game. When WoW first came out I was excited, I could play a Lich. I jumped in and was going to make a wicked Lich mage and raise an undead army to follow me. Imagine my suprise when I saw Lich babies and stuff running around the screen. Odd I thought and so I made a Dwarven warrior, guess what the start area was nearly identical. Oh there where graphic differences to be sure but the surface fluff was the only real difference there was no difference in the feel of the play.
I played a bit longer and quickly realized that this was a Monty Haul game. For those of you not of the old school this is a game that basically hands players everything for little effort.
The problem is this has spoiled an entire generation of p[otential RPGers to this style of dumbed down, easy to play, no need for brain gaming.
In the end though we all make our choices and I have made mine as have others. So feel free to go enjoy your hamburger made from frozen patties thrown on a quick grill while the rest of us look to experience fine dining and real food that takles time to prepare but provides a million times greater experience.
Your comparisons are so retarded i dont even know where to start, actually if you are talking about quality of "meat" between WoW and any other MMORPG on the market then WoW would be the fine dining not the MMO you play, every single MMO out there runs on a clunky engine, characters looks crippled most of the times and animations go out of synch so I really dunno where you are coming from, how can you say your experience in a game is better than someone else, are you saying ppl that play chess right now as we speak arent having a great experience because you cant craft gear or do quests in the game you play?
Its up to the gamer so going around saying your experience is better is just a little bit retarded since obviously ppl are having a good experience with whatever game they play, who cares about "spoiled" gamers they are having fun and great fun for that matter with their spoiled in game pixels, ill let you work hard and have a second job and PAY for it, so you can get a few pixels at the end of the day and pay for the vacations of the company CEO while he throws you some more pixels for you to work for the next 6 months.
The key to this is the assumption that the biggest and most popular means the best. This is a major misconception. I mean seriously the Big Mac outsells a Ruth's Chris steak easily and would you consider it a better food becuase of that?"
I love the fail in comparison in these because if that Ruth's Chris steak was the same price, and the same availability you can be sure a lot more people would be eating it.
And that's just it. There's nothing preventing people to not pick one of the other MMO's if they want to. It mostly costs the same (or even less), and tends to be just as easily available to anyone with a bit of internet knowledge.
I am not going to argue popularity doesn't play a part in WoW's success but these 'comparisons' are beyond stupid.
Its the biggest MMORPG ever made, most popular, highest earning, and by far the most dominant. It'll be a long time before an MMORPG overpowers WoW, and with the new graphical update with Cataclysm, add a few more years onto that. The Lore of WoW also makes the limit of expansions quite high indeed. Why would Blizzard stop making a game that makes them billions? Only when WoW becomes very unpopular will that "crime" be dealt. So basically, I'm wondering why that with everyone thread posted, someone comes along and insults WoW. With 13 million active members, all paying £10 per month, it can't be that bad a game, can it? So why dis it as frequent as people do? Thanks!
Do not recall if I ever replied to this and rather than weed through I will reference the OP
The key to this is the assumption that the biggest and most popular means the best. This is a major misconception. I mean seriously the Big Mac outsells a Ruth's Chris steak easily and would you consider it a better food becuase of that? If so you aint never had a good steak.
The reason so many hate Wow is the very reason it is so successful, it dumbed down the genre. WoW has such a large audience because they made the game EASY! You do not need to understand any of the lore to get any of the game. You do not need any kind of RPG skill to play the game, in fact you need no RPG experience or even liking the genre to play the game.
You cannot compare fine dining to fast food, just because they are both food. They are not similar products to make a fair comparison, especially in regards to computer games. That would be like comparing wow to chess, just because they are both games and then using that conclusion to say what automobile is great. Talking about hamburgers doesn't make for valid discussion about computer software.
The whole "just because it is popular doesn't mean it is good" argument only has any merit if you completely ignore all the factors that have made wow the success that it is.
The word of mouth advertising from the players has been overwhelmingly positive. That is something most other mmos do not enjoy.
The reviews from critics across the board have again been overwhelmingly positive.
Wow ushered in a level of quality that was previously unseen in mmos and thus the term "polished" was first used in reference to an mmo. This is no small matter, because that state of mmos prior to wow was pretty pathetic if you really look at it. EQ2 was the pinnacle of mmo design at that time and look at the fucking mess that game was and it was par of the course as far as mmo releases go.
Everywhere you look at wow it receives high marks of praise for its gameplay, performance, variety of game options and successfully catering to casual, hardcode, pvp and pve players alike.
The fact is that wow is popular, because it is a great game. The costs of the game are competitive to other mmos, the access to the game is competitive to other mmos, but when put side by side with other games in the genre, people have overwhelmingly chosen wow and it isn't hard to understand why when you look at the condition of most other mmos. Even when people have played wow to death, they still will not play other mmos for any length of time, because of their condition.
The problem with meaningless food analogies is that they are never completed. If wow is mcdonalds, then what is eq2 or warhammer? If you are comparing games side by side, then complete the stupid analogy, because I can assure you that neither of them would be compared to a steak dinner and you can see age of conan for proof of that.
As for wow "dumbing" down the genre, please name the fantasy mmo that takes so much intellect to play. I will promise you that an average wow player will not have any difficulty playing that game to the same degree they played wow. People on these forums try so desperately to drag wow down in an effort to make other mmos look good, but again the second half of the argument is never made. Where are all these other games that are so much better, much more thought provoking, challenging, etc. Why do they never state what these other harder and more intellectually challenging games are and why they are so much more difficult?
It is easy to hurl a bunch of insults at wow and claim them as fact, but where is your comparison? No, I am not talking about comparing hamburgers to steaks either.
Well, I have never played WOW so can't say a thing about it one way or the other. I did sign up for a trial account at one time but could not get past character creation because I did not like the look or feel of the characters. This was a preference of mine and had nothing to do with WOW. What I do get disgusted with is the WOW fanbase/players. On other games I do play there are WOW players who come in and constantly fill the chat channels with complaints about how the game sucks and WOW does it better etc etc.( I do alot of / ignore....) Anyway, my point is I wonder if part of the WOW hate is due to behavior of WOW players on other games? Maybe that drives the non-WOW player to the forums so they can vent about how they hate WOW thus perpetuating a vicious cycle ... Just a thought. A game is just game - like it/play it or leave it. It is the human components of the game that drives people to hate.
Its the biggest MMORPG ever made, most popular, highest earning, and by far the most dominant. It'll be a long time before an MMORPG overpowers WoW, and with the new graphical update with Cataclysm, add a few more years onto that. The Lore of WoW also makes the limit of expansions quite high indeed. Why would Blizzard stop making a game that makes them billions? Only when WoW becomes very unpopular will that "crime" be dealt. So basically, I'm wondering why that with everyone thread posted, someone comes along and insults WoW. With 13 million active members, all paying £10 per month, it can't be that bad a game, can it? So why dis it as frequent as people do? Thanks!
Do not recall if I ever replied to this and rather than weed through I will reference the OP
The key to this is the assumption that the biggest and most popular means the best. This is a major misconception. I mean seriously the Big Mac outsells a Ruth's Chris steak easily and would you consider it a better food becuase of that? If so you aint never had a good steak.
The reason so many hate Wow is the very reason it is so successful, it dumbed down the genre. WoW has such a large audience because they made the game EASY! You do not need to understand any of the lore to get any of the game. You do not need any kind of RPG skill to play the game, in fact you need no RPG experience or even liking the genre to play the game.
You cannot compare fine dining to fast food, just because they are both food. They are not similar products to make a fair comparison, especially in regards to computer games. That would be like comparing wow to chess, just because they are both games and then using that conclusion to say what automobile is great. Talking about hamburgers doesn't make for valid discussion about computer software.
The whole "just because it is popular doesn't mean it is good" argument only has any merit if you completely ignore all the factors that have made wow the success that it is.
The word of mouth advertising from the players has been overwhelmingly positive. That is something most other mmos do not enjoy.
The reviews from critics across the board have again been overwhelmingly positive.
Wow ushered in a level of quality that was previously unseen in mmos and thus the term "polished" was first used in reference to an mmo. This is no small matter, because that state of mmos prior to wow was pretty pathetic if you really look at it. EQ2 was the pinnacle of mmo design at that time and look at the fucking mess that game was and it was par of the course as far as mmo releases go.
Everywhere you look at wow it receives high marks of praise for its gameplay, performance, variety of game options and successfully catering to casual, hardcode, pvp and pve players alike.
The fact is that wow is popular, because it is a great game. The costs of the game are competitive to other mmos, the access to the game is competitive to other mmos, but when put side by side with other games in the genre, people have overwhelmingly chosen wow and it isn't hard to understand why when you look at the condition of most other mmos. Even when people have played wow to death, they still will not play other mmos for any length of time, because of their condition.
The problem with meaningless food analogies is that they are never completed. If wow is mcdonalds, then what is eq2 or warhammer? If you are comparing games side by side, then complete the stupid analogy, because I can assure you that neither of them would be compared to a steak dinner and you can see age of conan for proof of that.
As for wow "dumbing" down the genre, please name the fantasy mmo that takes so much intellect to play. I will promise you that an average wow player will not have any difficulty playing that game to the same degree they played wow. People on these forums try so desperately to drag wow down in an effort to make other mmos look good, but again the second half of the argument is never made. Where are all these other games that are so much better, much more thought provoking, challenging, etc. Why do they never state what these other harder and more intellectually challenging games are and why they are so much more difficult?
It is easy to hurl a bunch of insults at wow and claim them as fact, but where is your comparison? No, I am not talking about comparing hamburgers to steaks either.
I've played hard core RPGs since I was 15..that's some 31 years...and I thoroughly enjoy WOW. It's fun. period.
I enjoy the lore, have ready the books, even played the games before they became an MMO.
Sure I don't like all the changes that have been implemented in WOW, but it's still fun to me..I also play LOTRO fun to play as well.
Ask yourself the question, are you looking to have fun and to get some return on your gaming dollar invested or are you trying to become a professional so you can move to South Korea or China and get paid for playing?
If you're playing to have fun and to get some enjoyment from your entertainment dollars spent, then WOW should be good..If you don't have fun playing it or you want to be a paid professional gamer, then go play something else..
Well, I have never played WOW so can't say a thing about it one way or the other. I did sign up for a trial account at one time but could not get past character creation because I did not like the look or feel of the characters. This was a preference of mine and had nothing to do with WOW. What I do get disgusted with is the WOW fanbase/players. On other games I do play there are WOW players who come in and constantly fill the chat channels with complaints about how the game sucks and WOW does it better etc etc.( I do alot of / ignore....) Anyway, my point is I wonder if part of the WOW hate is due to behavior of WOW players on other games? Maybe that drives the non-WOW player to the forums so they can vent about how they hate WOW thus perpetuating a vicious cycle ... Just a thought. A game is just game - like it/play it or leave it. It is the human components of the game that drives people to hate.
While not entirely untrue probably I do think it's overshadowing something here. Namely that the reverse was also already true to begin with. There is and was plenty of hate from other MMO players about WoW, also in game in chats (mostly in the beginning) and on the forums.
The big difference comes when you take to what lengths WoW has grown. Because of it's sheer size and the sheer amount of people who *have* played WoW at some point or another, you are simply most likely to see those people complaining and comparing in other games and other forums, since there are simply the most of those out there.
So while I do sort of agree with your assessment in the way it turned out, I don't agree that somehow originated from WoW, other than that the immensity of WoW intensified it, and made it much stronger from a single source.
There are a lot of things I dislike about wow. Just because you are an extremist with your assumptions, doesn't mean I am blind to the pros and cons of the game.
Comments
Is that Horde territory? If so, no, I never did because I played Alliance.
Well you just pointed out why WoW seem to fail. I have not played it for a long time however to me it sounds rather bad if you have to work trough 14+ days of content for the fun to start.
Well you just pointed out why WoW seem to fail. I have not played it for a long time however to me it sounds rather bad if you have to work trough 14+ days of content for the fun to start.
My point exactly. You have to enjoy the game from the lowest levels to want to play that far in. If it's not fun for you by level 10, why would you want to continue further? I've never played any MMO that left me feeling that "ho-hum" before or since, with exception of a few of the free to play ones like Deicide.
I couldn't agree more with some of you guys.
I never understood why I'd have to play a game without enjoying it till a certain point to finally start enjoying it.
To me, if a game isn't fun from the start it's not worth it for me.
Now I don't hate WoW, it's just not my kinda game. I tried it but it simply felt too boring.
So then you do admit your hate is entirely based on a 14 day trial of the game. I'm not sure how much exposure you can get to a game in 14 days to develop something as strong as a hatred of it, but that seems to be the in thing to do around these parts.
If 14 days is enough time for one to decide they like a game, why is it not enough time to decide they hate it. I love how any disliking of WoW is reduced to "well, it's trendy to hate WoW, so I don't take your arguement seriously, no matter how well constructed your arguement is or what your actual reason is". It further proves my point to me that the WoW playerbase is chock full of people who look for any reason to berate those not like them.
14 days can be quite a long time. I don't need to spend 14 days binge drinking to discover that I really don't enjoy binge drinking anymore, like I did in my heady college years.
I never got the "you didn't play it long enough" argument. I have a pretty good idea if I'm going to like a game or not pretty early on. EVE for example I knew I was going to hate right away; it only took me a few HOURS to hate that game.
Game preference is like sexuality. I didn't have to try sleeping with men for 14 days to discover that I really am straight and that the past 10 years of my marriage to my wife weren't in vain.
I realize that's a bit of a tangent but... yes, 2 weeks of playing a couple hours a day is more than enough time to figure out if you're going to "like" a game or not. Saying otherwise is like telling a person who doesn't like chicken to just keep eating chicken, eventually he'll find a way he likes it prepared. Why should he choke down chicken (heh) when there are so many other foods available?
At the same time it is very disingenuous for someone who has only played the game on a 14 day trial to be commenting on how they hate the end game, the pvp game and so on when they have never really seen those aspects of the game first hand.
It is completely fine if someone says they tried the game, didn't enjoy it and list some reasons why they didn't, but to make other comments seems more like pandering to the masses here instead of being honest about ones experience.
Just like it is misleading to blame wow for somehow forcing end game raiding on another mmo, especially when end game raiding predates world of warcraft by 6+ years as an mmo end game staple.
So then you do admit your hate is entirely based on a 14 day trial of the game. I'm not sure how much exposure you can get to a game in 14 days to develop something as strong as a hatred of it, but that seems to be the in thing to do around these parts.
If 14 days is enough time for one to decide they like a game, why is it not enough time to decide they hate it. I love how any disliking of WoW is reduced to "well, it's trendy to hate WoW, so I don't take your arguement seriously, no matter how well constructed your arguement is or what your actual reason is". It further proves my point to me that the WoW playerbase is chock full of people who look for any reason to berate those not like them.
14 days can be quite a long time. I don't need to spend 14 days binge drinking to discover that I really don't enjoy binge drinking anymore, like I did in my heady college years.
I never got the "you didn't play it long enough" argument. I have a pretty good idea if I'm going to like a game or not pretty early on. EVE for example I knew I was going to hate right away; it only took me a few HOURS to hate that game.
Game preference is like sexuality. I didn't have to try sleeping with men for 14 days to discover that I really am straight and that the past 10 years of my marriage to my wife weren't in vain.
I realize that's a bit of a tangent but... yes, 2 weeks of playing a couple hours a day is more than enough time to figure out if you're going to "like" a game or not. Saying otherwise is like telling a person who doesn't like chicken to just keep eating chicken, eventually he'll find a way he likes it prepared. Why should he choke down chicken (heh) when there are so many other foods available?
At the same time it is very disingenuous for someone who has only played the game on a 14 day trial to be commenting on how they hate the end game, the pvp game and so on when they have never really seen those aspects of the game first hand.
It is completely fine if someone says they tried the game, didn't enjoy it and list some reasons why they didn't, but to make other comments seems more like pandering to the masses here instead of being honest about ones experience.
Just like it is misleading to blame wow for somehow forcing end game raiding on another mmo, especially when end game raiding predates world of warcraft by 6+ years as an mmo end game staple.
If you're referring to me, I never said I hate the endgame. I said that WoW is all about endgame. But I do hate PvP, but not just on WoW. That statement applies to all mmos.
I think what he meant, and with it he is essentially right, that both, SWG and EQ2 were originally anything BUT WoW but were "WoWified" in an attempt to cater to the same crowd. Ruining both games in the process, btw.
That's not to say that WoW is in any way "bad", but turning a game that was not meant to be WoW into something akin to WoW definitly is. It was marketed as anything but WoW (EQ2 was marketed as a "hard" game with a slow level progression, a lot of emphasis on group play and group leveling, and originally it was, and that appealed to the people who wanted just that).
When a game is changed, you not only lose the crowd you attracted originally, you also won't attract any of those that you try to cater to. Why should anyone leave WoW for a game that's kinda-sorta like WoW?
Blizzard thinks two steps ahead. By the time they started making WC3, they already had a clear picture of what WoW should look like. Hence WC3/FT storyline reads like a perfect MMO prequel. When they were making WoW, they had plans for expansions up until LVL100.
I'm sorry but other companies just don't seem to have this kind of foresight. Let's take Mythic for example. They had never worked with WAR FB setting before when they SUDDENLY decided to make WHO. OK, that's not a problem yet. But what they did? They cut and reshaped this (very violent and politically incorrect) PnP setting to fit it into "T" rating. OK, maybe they knew better than Games Workshop and had something great in mind. Maybe. But we'll never know because 3/4 of their promises turned out to be wishful thinking. Finally, they rushed an unfinished game AND released it a month before WotLK hit the market.
That's how typical MMO developer paves its way to oblivion.
MMORPG genre is dead. Long live MMOCS (Massively Multiplayer Online Cash Shop).
Really strange ... because I still play and love wow after years and all classes leveled to max exactly for this, because i have all this feelings you do not have. Beauty is in the eyes of beholder still holds it looks. :-)) In all other games (and have played many) put together I do not find all this.
Alot of ppl in this thread speak about "Best" there is really no best since Best is a subjective term it means different things to everyone else, it doesnt matter how long you discuss there wont be a "Best" MMO, each person will find each own individually, but popular is not a subjective term and we can use it in this context, WoW is the most popular MMO amongst the X million that play it, and I am sure for whatever reason they play it for those X million WoW is the "Best" MMO otherwise they would be playing another, now if we put all these best together like some ppl say EVE is the "Best" and some ppl say EQ2 is the Best and some ppl say LOTRO is the Best, if we quantify the ppl that would be saying those are the best (actually you can put them all together vs WoW) and the ppl saying WoW is the best then more ppl agree that WoW is the best MMO on the market.
In comparison this is how we assess most things in RL for that matter by popular demand, if a product is "rated" badly by most ppl then it will be considered worse quality and no one will buy it, doesnt matter if Joe loves it, its not the best, the McDonald's argument is really flawed since really McDonald's provides other things that are "BEST" in comparison to other restaurants but its definetly not BEST food, ppl seem to only look at the food factor and not at the convenience and or cheap prices, they do provide the best prices and the best convenience (drive thru, 2min wait to get served) and that makes it popular and best to the ppl that visit it at that particular time.
Also in comparison when you vote for a Prime Minister or President he is not always liked by everyone as we have seen over and over, if the majority of ppl vote for him then he is considered the Best match for the job even if 20% of the population disagree and think another is better. All in all best is a subjective term we apply to things we consider good, in a wide scale perspective however best can only be mesured by popularity and by how many ppl think a particular thing is "Best".
best yes there is and was a best buy a new copy of vanilla wow without expension .and that my friend is the game everybody loved and love ,there was lot of world content,lot of instanced content.
dont event know if world content is still there been a while i havent went to level 60 content.
Always surprised why everyone thinks he is the center of the world.
Do not recall if I ever replied to this and rather than weed through I will reference the OP
The key to this is the assumption that the biggest and most popular means the best. This is a major misconception. I mean seriously the Big Mac outsells a Ruth's Chris steak easily and would you consider it a better food becuase of that? If so you aint never had a good steak.
The reason so many hate Wow is the very reason it is so successful, it dumbed down the genre. WoW has such a large audience because they made the game EASY! You do not need to understand any of the lore to get any of the game. You do not need any kind of RPG skill to play the game, in fact you need no RPG experience or even liking the genre to play the game.
Jump in and kill stuff quick, gain easy loot and level as fast as you can, that is the entire game. When WoW first came out I was excited, I could play a Lich. I jumped in and was going to make a wicked Lich mage and raise an undead army to follow me. Imagine my suprise when I saw Lich babies and stuff running around the screen. Odd I thought and so I made a Dwarven warrior, guess what the start area was nearly identical. Oh there where graphic differences to be sure but the surface fluff was the only real difference there was no difference in the feel of the play.
I played a bit longer and quickly realized that this was a Monty Haul game. For those of you not of the old school this is a game that basically hands players everything for little effort.
The problem is this has spoiled an entire generation of p[otential RPGers to this style of dumbed down, easy to play, no need for brain gaming.
In the end though we all make our choices and I have made mine as have others. So feel free to go enjoy your hamburger made from frozen patties thrown on a quick grill while the rest of us look to experience fine dining and real food that takles time to prepare but provides a million times greater experience.
=============================
I have a soap box and I am not afraid to use it.
I hope all players who ever played WOW reread the above.
And ask yourselves: did this man ever set foot in Azeroth, Undercity, Ironforge, ..?
Of course not. So why does he even post? He actually believes all classes play the same because he reads ... forums.
I guess he's mad his games are empty, the real reason for the hate these days.
Do not recall if I ever replied to this and rather than weed through I will reference the OP
The key to this is the assumption that the biggest and most popular means the best. This is a major misconception. I mean seriously the Big Mac outsells a Ruth's Chris steak easily and would you consider it a better food becuase of that? If so you aint never had a good steak.
The reason so many hate Wow is the very reason it is so successful, it dumbed down the genre. WoW has such a large audience because they made the game EASY! You do not need to understand any of the lore to get any of the game. You do not need any kind of RPG skill to play the game, in fact you need no RPG experience or even liking the genre to play the game.
Jump in and kill stuff quick, gain easy loot and level as fast as you can, that is the entire game. When WoW first came out I was excited, I could play a Lich. I jumped in and was going to make a wicked Lich mage and raise an undead army to follow me. Imagine my suprise when I saw Lich babies and stuff running around the screen. Odd I thought and so I made a Dwarven warrior, guess what the start area was nearly identical. Oh there where graphic differences to be sure but the surface fluff was the only real difference there was no difference in the feel of the play.
I played a bit longer and quickly realized that this was a Monty Haul game. For those of you not of the old school this is a game that basically hands players everything for little effort.
The problem is this has spoiled an entire generation of p[otential RPGers to this style of dumbed down, easy to play, no need for brain gaming.
In the end though we all make our choices and I have made mine as have others. So feel free to go enjoy your hamburger made from frozen patties thrown on a quick grill while the rest of us look to experience fine dining and real food that takles time to prepare but provides a million times greater experience.
Your comparisons are so retarded i dont even know where to start, actually if you are talking about quality of "meat" between WoW and any other MMORPG on the market then WoW would be the fine dining not the MMO you play, every single MMO out there runs on a clunky engine, characters looks crippled most of the times and animations go out of synch so I really dunno where you are coming from, how can you say your experience in a game is better than someone else, are you saying ppl that play chess right now as we speak arent having a great experience because you cant craft gear or do quests in the game you play?
Its up to the gamer so going around saying your experience is better is just a little bit retarded since obviously ppl are having a good experience with whatever game they play, who cares about "spoiled" gamers they are having fun and great fun for that matter with their spoiled in game pixels, ill let you work hard and have a second job and PAY for it, so you can get a few pixels at the end of the day and pay for the vacations of the company CEO while he throws you some more pixels for you to work for the next 6 months.
quote
The key to this is the assumption that the biggest and most popular means the best. This is a major misconception. I mean seriously the Big Mac outsells a Ruth's Chris steak easily and would you consider it a better food becuase of that?"
I love the fail in comparison in these because if that Ruth's Chris steak was the same price, and the same availability you can be sure a lot more people would be eating it.
And that's just it. There's nothing preventing people to not pick one of the other MMO's if they want to. It mostly costs the same (or even less), and tends to be just as easily available to anyone with a bit of internet knowledge.
I am not going to argue popularity doesn't play a part in WoW's success but these 'comparisons' are beyond stupid.
Do not recall if I ever replied to this and rather than weed through I will reference the OP
The key to this is the assumption that the biggest and most popular means the best. This is a major misconception. I mean seriously the Big Mac outsells a Ruth's Chris steak easily and would you consider it a better food becuase of that? If so you aint never had a good steak.
The reason so many hate Wow is the very reason it is so successful, it dumbed down the genre. WoW has such a large audience because they made the game EASY! You do not need to understand any of the lore to get any of the game. You do not need any kind of RPG skill to play the game, in fact you need no RPG experience or even liking the genre to play the game.
You cannot compare fine dining to fast food, just because they are both food. They are not similar products to make a fair comparison, especially in regards to computer games. That would be like comparing wow to chess, just because they are both games and then using that conclusion to say what automobile is great. Talking about hamburgers doesn't make for valid discussion about computer software.
The whole "just because it is popular doesn't mean it is good" argument only has any merit if you completely ignore all the factors that have made wow the success that it is.
The word of mouth advertising from the players has been overwhelmingly positive. That is something most other mmos do not enjoy.
The reviews from critics across the board have again been overwhelmingly positive.
Wow ushered in a level of quality that was previously unseen in mmos and thus the term "polished" was first used in reference to an mmo. This is no small matter, because that state of mmos prior to wow was pretty pathetic if you really look at it. EQ2 was the pinnacle of mmo design at that time and look at the fucking mess that game was and it was par of the course as far as mmo releases go.
Everywhere you look at wow it receives high marks of praise for its gameplay, performance, variety of game options and successfully catering to casual, hardcode, pvp and pve players alike.
The fact is that wow is popular, because it is a great game. The costs of the game are competitive to other mmos, the access to the game is competitive to other mmos, but when put side by side with other games in the genre, people have overwhelmingly chosen wow and it isn't hard to understand why when you look at the condition of most other mmos. Even when people have played wow to death, they still will not play other mmos for any length of time, because of their condition.
The problem with meaningless food analogies is that they are never completed. If wow is mcdonalds, then what is eq2 or warhammer? If you are comparing games side by side, then complete the stupid analogy, because I can assure you that neither of them would be compared to a steak dinner and you can see age of conan for proof of that.
As for wow "dumbing" down the genre, please name the fantasy mmo that takes so much intellect to play. I will promise you that an average wow player will not have any difficulty playing that game to the same degree they played wow. People on these forums try so desperately to drag wow down in an effort to make other mmos look good, but again the second half of the argument is never made. Where are all these other games that are so much better, much more thought provoking, challenging, etc. Why do they never state what these other harder and more intellectually challenging games are and why they are so much more difficult?
It is easy to hurl a bunch of insults at wow and claim them as fact, but where is your comparison? No, I am not talking about comparing hamburgers to steaks either.
Well, I have never played WOW so can't say a thing about it one way or the other. I did sign up for a trial account at one time but could not get past character creation because I did not like the look or feel of the characters. This was a preference of mine and had nothing to do with WOW. What I do get disgusted with is the WOW fanbase/players. On other games I do play there are WOW players who come in and constantly fill the chat channels with complaints about how the game sucks and WOW does it better etc etc.( I do alot of / ignore....) Anyway, my point is I wonder if part of the WOW hate is due to behavior of WOW players on other games? Maybe that drives the non-WOW player to the forums so they can vent about how they hate WOW thus perpetuating a vicious cycle ... Just a thought. A game is just game - like it/play it or leave it. It is the human components of the game that drives people to hate.
Do not recall if I ever replied to this and rather than weed through I will reference the OP
The key to this is the assumption that the biggest and most popular means the best. This is a major misconception. I mean seriously the Big Mac outsells a Ruth's Chris steak easily and would you consider it a better food becuase of that? If so you aint never had a good steak.
The reason so many hate Wow is the very reason it is so successful, it dumbed down the genre. WoW has such a large audience because they made the game EASY! You do not need to understand any of the lore to get any of the game. You do not need any kind of RPG skill to play the game, in fact you need no RPG experience or even liking the genre to play the game.
You cannot compare fine dining to fast food, just because they are both food. They are not similar products to make a fair comparison, especially in regards to computer games. That would be like comparing wow to chess, just because they are both games and then using that conclusion to say what automobile is great. Talking about hamburgers doesn't make for valid discussion about computer software.
The whole "just because it is popular doesn't mean it is good" argument only has any merit if you completely ignore all the factors that have made wow the success that it is.
The word of mouth advertising from the players has been overwhelmingly positive. That is something most other mmos do not enjoy.
The reviews from critics across the board have again been overwhelmingly positive.
Wow ushered in a level of quality that was previously unseen in mmos and thus the term "polished" was first used in reference to an mmo. This is no small matter, because that state of mmos prior to wow was pretty pathetic if you really look at it. EQ2 was the pinnacle of mmo design at that time and look at the fucking mess that game was and it was par of the course as far as mmo releases go.
Everywhere you look at wow it receives high marks of praise for its gameplay, performance, variety of game options and successfully catering to casual, hardcode, pvp and pve players alike.
The fact is that wow is popular, because it is a great game. The costs of the game are competitive to other mmos, the access to the game is competitive to other mmos, but when put side by side with other games in the genre, people have overwhelmingly chosen wow and it isn't hard to understand why when you look at the condition of most other mmos. Even when people have played wow to death, they still will not play other mmos for any length of time, because of their condition.
The problem with meaningless food analogies is that they are never completed. If wow is mcdonalds, then what is eq2 or warhammer? If you are comparing games side by side, then complete the stupid analogy, because I can assure you that neither of them would be compared to a steak dinner and you can see age of conan for proof of that.
As for wow "dumbing" down the genre, please name the fantasy mmo that takes so much intellect to play. I will promise you that an average wow player will not have any difficulty playing that game to the same degree they played wow. People on these forums try so desperately to drag wow down in an effort to make other mmos look good, but again the second half of the argument is never made. Where are all these other games that are so much better, much more thought provoking, challenging, etc. Why do they never state what these other harder and more intellectually challenging games are and why they are so much more difficult?
It is easy to hurl a bunch of insults at wow and claim them as fact, but where is your comparison? No, I am not talking about comparing hamburgers to steaks either.
Is there any aspect of WOW you do not like?
I've played hard core RPGs since I was 15..that's some 31 years...and I thoroughly enjoy WOW. It's fun. period.
I enjoy the lore, have ready the books, even played the games before they became an MMO.
Sure I don't like all the changes that have been implemented in WOW, but it's still fun to me..I also play LOTRO fun to play as well.
Ask yourself the question, are you looking to have fun and to get some return on your gaming dollar invested or are you trying to become a professional so you can move to South Korea or China and get paid for playing?
If you're playing to have fun and to get some enjoyment from your entertainment dollars spent, then WOW should be good..If you don't have fun playing it or you want to be a paid professional gamer, then go play something else..
It really is that simple..
Is there any real point in dissing anything else? No one would read it if you did.
While not entirely untrue probably I do think it's overshadowing something here. Namely that the reverse was also already true to begin with. There is and was plenty of hate from other MMO players about WoW, also in game in chats (mostly in the beginning) and on the forums.
The big difference comes when you take to what lengths WoW has grown. Because of it's sheer size and the sheer amount of people who *have* played WoW at some point or another, you are simply most likely to see those people complaining and comparing in other games and other forums, since there are simply the most of those out there.
So while I do sort of agree with your assessment in the way it turned out, I don't agree that somehow originated from WoW, other than that the immensity of WoW intensified it, and made it much stronger from a single source.
There are a lot of things I dislike about wow. Just because you are an extremist with your assumptions, doesn't mean I am blind to the pros and cons of the game.
Assume?
When X has always been a main feature of mmos since everquest, assuming Z was the reasoning is just irrational.
Read the post, please. He didn't say 'added raid content,' he said added 'GATED' raid content. This was new in LOTRO.
Assume?
When X has always been a main feature of mmos since everquest, assuming Z was the reasoning is just irrational.
Read the post, please. He didn't say 'added raid content,' he said added 'GATED' raid content. This was new in LOTRO.
I read the post and and I think everything I said still applies. Raid content [gated or not] has been around since the late 90's.
Why blame something the was created in the middle of the 2000's for that feature?