This. This is pretty much how my gay friends feel about it. They dont go crazy over derogatives, but hearing it excessively get's annoying and offensive after a while. It was big of you IMO to even say anything to them. Yet at the same time its sad that we live in the day and age where people have to endure it while enjoying thier hobbies.
People do not "have to endure it". afr_gc didnt have to endure it. They took a stand and made a difference, even on a small scale of 2 people. This is courage. Its the direction that needs to be magnified. afr_gc put his/her evaluation first and came to the conclusion that these two individuals were more unknowing to their language vs. expecting that everyone is well versed on respectful etiquette. His/Her solution will reach more people than regulation.
You'd be better suited to take notice.
[Mod Edit]
The ONLY obligation one has is to enjoy the game they paid for without being subjected to the filth and hate from the hate mongers. I'm done talking to you about this. Stop trolling my posts.
It's simple. As generations of online gaming passes by, the intellect of the online gamer has been dragged down to nothing more than ego's, immaturity etc etc.
As the yrs go by, the mentallity rate of the players drop. Doesnt matter how old they are, they stoop to the next players level or they feel out of place.
As new gamers enter the battlefields, the majority of them eventually become as degenerated and insolent as the next.
/block the people that are offending. Why is that so hard. I think the people that let it effect them and go on for longer then it has to are people who actually like the drama. Most likely these online people don't actually know you so don't take anything they say to heart. These people are not worth your time and effort. /block is your friend I use it regularly to keep my gaming life simple and happy.
Playing: PO, EVE Waiting for: WoD Favourite MMOs: VG, EVE, FE and DDO Any person who expresses rage and loathing for an MMO is preposterous. He or she is like a person who has put on full armor and attacked a hot fudge sundae.
This is incredible. Psuedo intellectuals attempting to justify censorship. WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU NUTCASES?
You don't like it? Don't use it. The internet is not real life. You can turn it off at any time. You can find a server that have 0 tolerance for freedom of speech. Buy a freaking computer if you want a censored internet. There are plenty of programs that take the fun out of it you damn killjoys.
The games we play have rules that prohibit this behavior, thereby limiting the free speech in these platforms.
Moving on;
I know that the US only prohibits hate speech if there is an immenint threat of violence caused by the speech or speech encouraging violence against the government, how do things work in Europe?
Please stay on topic and refrain from personal attacks.
Silencing speech, great. I appreciate your kid gloves approach.
Cowardice: lack of courage to face danger, difficulty, opposition, pain, etc
This is pretty weak. How about editing the libel and slander? On second thought I dont want to infringe on another humans freedom to speech, even if its disingenous and cowardly. I will however argue the sincerity of my statements Chirugai.
Private parties can censor the speech within their property all they want. It's only the public domain that the "Freedom of Speech" applies to.
As this is a privately owned website, they can censor you all they want. The same way that colleges can fire professors for racial slurs. Feel free to watch FOX news if you want some manipulation on a massive scale.
Welcome to reality, here's your paddle. Try not to fall into the creek.
Well it's not like words are going to go away. They can't limit what people say. It's free speech. It's not like there isn't a warning. The game is rated M anyway. I say parents shouldn't let their kids play a game that's clearly labeled 17+. Do you agree?
Private parties can censor the speech within their property all they want. It's only the public domain that the "Freedom of Speech" applies to.
As this is a privately owned website, they can censor you all they want. The same way that colleges can fire professors for racial slurs. Feel free to watch FOX news if you want some manipulation on a massive scale.
Welcome to reality, here's your paddle. Try not to fall into the creek.
This is an excellent point and one I think we all on this thread (myself included) has probably forgotten. MMO's and other games (and websites) with voice communications are NOT the public domain. They are properties owned by others that we pay a fee to utilize.
Please stay on topic and refrain from personal attacks.
Silencing speech, great. I appreciate your kid gloves approach.
Cowardice: lack of courage to face danger, difficulty, opposition, pain, etc
This is pretty weak. How about editing the libel and slander? On second thought I dont want to infringe on another humans freedom to speech, even if its disingenous and cowardly. I will however argue the sincerity of my statements Chirugai.
Private parties can censor the speech within their property all they want. It's only the public domain that the "Freedom of Speech" applies to.
As this is a privately owned website, they can censor you all they want. The same way that colleges can fire professors for racial slurs. Feel free to watch FOX news if you want some manipulation on a massive scale.
Welcome to reality, here's your paddle. Try not to fall into the creek.
I never protested unknowingly a freedom to speech within this domain. I can be critical of needless censorship when my opinion of it is unwarranted. I will watch Fox news if I want, because they can actually be trusted on a much higher scale than anything else. I guess domination in news ratings isnt just a fluke. Some people would just rather be told the truth. Thanks for the suggestion. I think debating the merits and facts related to the topic is much better suited to this thread though.
I dont need a lesson in reality or your nasty paddle. Im american and can achieve anything I want with hard work. Ive fallen into a creek before, its not that life threatening.
Then perhaps others will learn their lessons and stop saying these things. But it's a lesson they need to learn for themselves. The company can try to make a pleasant gaming environment for everyone, but the best way to do that is give the power to the players. Mute, ignore, etc. I'm a proponent of bigger ignore lists, by the way.
Though the chances of something like that happening are slim and none. Especially over a game of Call of Duty. I read about emotional attachments leading to suicides in MMOs, but never emotional reactions leading to homicide in FPSs. Have any articles I could read?
Com, this is the best I could find, but I doubt it's exactly what you're looking for- I can't even guarantee the veracity of it.
Please stay on topic and refrain from personal attacks.
Silencing speech, great. I appreciate your kid gloves approach.
Cowardice: lack of courage to face danger, difficulty, opposition, pain, etc
This is pretty weak. How about editing the libel and slander? On second thought I dont want to infringe on another humans freedom to speech, even if its disingenous and cowardly. I will however argue the sincerity of my statements Chirugai.
Private parties can censor the speech within their property all they want. It's only the public domain that the "Freedom of Speech" applies to.
As this is a privately owned website, they can censor you all they want. The same way that colleges can fire professors for racial slurs. Feel free to watch FOX news if you want some manipulation on a massive scale.
Welcome to reality, here's your paddle. Try not to fall into the creek.
I never protested unknowingly a freedom to speech within this domain. I can be critical of needless censorship when my opinion of it is unwarranted. I will watch Fox news if I want, because they can actually be trusted on a much higher scale than anything else. I guess domination in news ratings isnt just a fluke. Some people would just rather be told the truth. Thanks for the suggestion. I think debating the merits and facts related to the topic is much better suited to this thread though.
I dont need a lesson in reality or your nasty paddle. Im american and can achieve anything I want with hard work. Ive fallen into a creek before, its not that life threatening.
Well said demonshank. I would rather be in a community that policed itself than have the government police the people. This is a free country, for now, and people need to stop running to someone else when they get their feelings hurt, mute the person, confront them, or just log off. There will always be racisim and hatred in this world, no matter what you say. Would it be nice if we could all live in a world of peace and love? Sure but its never happening. You have to expect these things and deal with them. Sucks that it has to be like this but this is the world we live in.
Feel free to watch FOX news if you want some manipulation on a massive scale.
I'd be interested in some specific examples.
Same here. Every news site manipulates to a certain degree. It wouldn't be a news channel without it. Its just cool to hate on Fox news (mainly because most people on the interwebz are atheiset and/or to the left in the political realm).
Feel free to watch FOX news if you want some manipulation on a massive scale.
I'd be interested in some specific examples.
Same here. Every news site manipulates to a certain degree. It wouldn't be a news channel without it. Its just cool to hate on Fox news (mainly because most people on the interwebz are atheiset and/or to the left in the political realm).
Really? Do you have some facts to back that up? Hey wait, that is a good example of how FOX reports the "news".
A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true...
Feel free to watch FOX news if you want some manipulation on a massive scale.
I'd be interested in some specific examples.
Same here. Every news site manipulates to a certain degree. It wouldn't be a news channel without it. Its just cool to hate on Fox news (mainly because most people on the interwebz are atheiset and/or to the left in the political realm).
Really? Do you have some facts to back that up? Hey wait, that is a good example of how FOX reports the "news".
Got facts to prove me wrong? I'm just speaking out of my experiences when talking about what type of people use the internet. Ever see what happens when threads are created for politics or religion? Absolute chaos
Feel free to watch FOX news if you want some manipulation on a massive scale.
I'd be interested in some specific examples.
Same here. Every news site manipulates to a certain degree. It wouldn't be a news channel without it. Its just cool to hate on Fox news (mainly because most people on the interwebz are atheiset and/or to the left in the political realm).
Really? Do you have some facts to back that up? Hey wait, that is a good example of how FOX reports the "news".
Got facts to prove me wrong? I'm just speaking out of my experiences when talking about what type of people use the internet. Ever see what happens when threads are created for politics or religion? Absolute chaos
Something we can both agree on...
A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true...
Feel free to watch FOX news if you want some manipulation on a massive scale.
I'd be interested in some specific examples.
Same here. Every news site manipulates to a certain degree. It wouldn't be a news channel without it. Its just cool to hate on Fox news (mainly because most people on the interwebz are atheiset and/or to the left in the political realm).
Really? Do you have some facts to back that up? Hey wait, that is a good example of how FOX reports the "news".
Got facts to prove me wrong? I'm just speaking out of my experiences when talking about what type of people use the internet. Ever see what happens when threads are created for politics or religion? Absolute chaos
Back to Topic: It is necessary to regulate Hate Speech over the internet to some extent. I play video games as a hobbie, I want to enjoy video games, not to get insulted by a 12 years old basement dweller on the pretence that it's "my fault" if he died when he's the one who rushed in without thinking.
"Free Speech" has nothing to do with this. If you meet a police officer, can you tell that police officer: "Hey, you're stupid!". Well yes you can, but you'll deal with the consequences. There's a limit to Free Speech that many don't seem to understand and it is very easy to cross that line between what is acceptable Free Speech and what is not.
Feel free to watch FOX news if you want some manipulation on a massive scale.
I'd be interested in some specific examples.
Same here. Every news site manipulates to a certain degree. It wouldn't be a news channel without it. Its just cool to hate on Fox news (mainly because most people on the interwebz are atheiset and/or to the left in the political realm).
Really? Do you have some facts to back that up? Hey wait, that is a good example of how FOX reports the "news".
Got facts to prove me wrong? I'm just speaking out of my experiences when talking about what type of people use the internet. Ever see what happens when threads are created for politics or religion? Absolute chaos
Bill O'Reilly is an editorial/opinion commentator, much like Keith Olbermann of MSNBC or Anderson Cooper of CNN. Got any evidence that Fox News' actual news coverage is manipulated?
"You'll never win an argument with an idiot because he is too stupid to recognize his own defeat." ~Anonymous
[quote] Bill O'Reilly is an editorial/opinion commentator, much like Keith Olbermann of MSNBC or Anderson Cooper of CNN. Got any evidence that Fox News' actual news coverage is manipulated? [/b][/quote] I'm joining in late, but I have evidence that Fox News is sub par. For one, they choose words that can be misconstrued easily, they show pulls that add up to 120% I'm not sure if this happens durring "commentary" but they badger people all the time simply if they don't like what they're saying.
I've generally found that mmo developers handle this kind of problem well. If a problem is reported, then they deal with it. They're responsible about it.
The only exception I've encountered is Horizons. Under the current owners I reported another player for joking that we should just bomb Mecca. I'm not a Muslim, but I found that a bit off.
So I privately suggested to him that those sorts of comments could be regarded by some as offensive. Everyone makes mistakes and I thought a quick word might end it.
But he got really worked-up, sending me increasingly offensive tells ending with "I don't give a flying f$%k if I offend you!". By that stage all I could do was put him on ignore and report him.
Virtrium did nothing.
I'd have expected them to at least warn him, but the response I got after making the complaint and sending in the screenshots was "we feel he understands he shouldn't have said what he did and won't do it again".
I asked exactly how they got from "I don't a flying f$%k if I offend you" to there, but they flat out refused to answer that question.
So I cancelled my subscription - which is a shame because I was enjoying building my lair and had two more months on my sub.
I don't know if they're so pro US military that they approve of comments like that, or they just have such a tiny playerbase that they're scared of disciplining players (their chat channels could get pretty feral) but I think players need to take some responsiblity with these things.
If an mmo developer doesn't hold up their end of the bargain (as per the ToS) stop giving them your money.
I've generally found that mmo developers handle this kind of problem well. If a problem is reported, then they deal with it. They're responsible about it.
The only exception I've encountered is Horizons. Under the current owners I reported another player for joking that we should just bomb Mecca. I'm not a Muslim, but I found that a bit off.
So I privately suggested to him that those sorts of comments could be regarded by some as offensive. Everyone makes mistakes and I thought a quick word might end it.
But he got really worked-up, sending me increasingly offensive tells ending with "I don't give a flying f$%k if I offend you!". By that stage all I could do was put him on ignore and report him.
If one goes out of their way to be a redneck idiot only redneck idiots will hang around.
I think that is what happens in games and forums with lax moderation. No self-respecting person wants to be associated with that type of behavior.
Feel free to watch FOX news if you want some manipulation on a massive scale.
I'd be interested in some specific examples.
Same here. Every news site manipulates to a certain degree. It wouldn't be a news channel without it. Its just cool to hate on Fox news (mainly because most people on the interwebz are atheiset and/or to the left in the political realm).
Really? Do you have some facts to back that up? Hey wait, that is a good example of how FOX reports the "news".
Got facts to prove me wrong? I'm just speaking out of my experiences when talking about what type of people use the internet. Ever see what happens when threads are created for politics or religion? Absolute chaos
Bill O'Reilly is an editorial/opinion commentator, much like Keith Olbermann of MSNBC or Anderson Cooper of CNN. Got any evidence that Fox News' actual news coverage is manipulated?
Fox News almost exclusively uses commentators and special guest to discuss the news. So does CNN and MSNBC for that matter. There is very little actual objective reporting going on anymore. We have editorial news, nowadays.
This is an excellent point and one I think we all on this thread (myself included) has probably forgotten. MMO's and other games (and websites) with voice communications are NOT the public domain. They are properties owned by others that we pay a fee to utilize.
That's actually not true.
Well partly true - they're not "public domain" but they're also more than "properties".
Legally speaking, MMOs are services - because you pay for them (generally). Anti-discrimination law makes MMO developers vicariously liable for any discriminatory behaviour that they tolerate.
Bill O'Reilly is an editorial/opinion commentator, much like Keith Olbermann of MSNBC or Anderson Cooper of CNN. Got any evidence that Fox News' actual news coverage is manipulated?
[/b][/quote]
I'm joining in late, but I have evidence that Fox News is sub par. For one, they choose words that can be misconstrued easily, they show pulls that add up to 120% I'm not sure if this happens durring "commentary" but they badger people all the time simply if they don't like what they're saying.
Examples?
(@ the rest of the thread participants-- I know this is off topic, but this point deserves challenging, because just like with many things spoken about here, there's always a ton of accusations without substantiation. I just want to see people back up their claims.)
"You'll never win an argument with an idiot because he is too stupid to recognize his own defeat." ~Anonymous
Comments
Please stay on topic and refrain from personal attacks.
Fortune favours the bold.
The ONLY obligation one has is to enjoy the game they paid for without being subjected to the filth and hate from the hate mongers. I'm done talking to you about this. Stop trolling my posts.
Current Games: WOW, EVE Online
QFE. Agreed.
Current Games: WOW, EVE Online
/block the people that are offending. Why is that so hard. I think the people that let it effect them and go on for longer then it has to are people who actually like the drama. Most likely these online people don't actually know you so don't take anything they say to heart. These people are not worth your time and effort. /block is your friend I use it regularly to keep my gaming life simple and happy.
Playing: PO, EVE
Waiting for: WoD
Favourite MMOs: VG, EVE, FE and DDO
Any person who expresses rage and loathing for an MMO is preposterous. He or she is like a person who has put on full armor and attacked a hot fudge sundae.
The games we play have rules that prohibit this behavior, thereby limiting the free speech in these platforms.
Moving on;
I know that the US only prohibits hate speech if there is an immenint threat of violence caused by the speech or speech encouraging violence against the government, how do things work in Europe?
Private parties can censor the speech within their property all they want. It's only the public domain that the "Freedom of Speech" applies to.
As this is a privately owned website, they can censor you all they want. The same way that colleges can fire professors for racial slurs. Feel free to watch FOX news if you want some manipulation on a massive scale.
Welcome to reality, here's your paddle. Try not to fall into the creek.
Yes, I am an English Major.
Well it's not like words are going to go away. They can't limit what people say. It's free speech. It's not like there isn't a warning. The game is rated M anyway. I say parents shouldn't let their kids play a game that's clearly labeled 17+. Do you agree?
Kinda ironic
March on! - Lets Invade Pekopon
This is an excellent point and one I think we all on this thread (myself included) has probably forgotten. MMO's and other games (and websites) with voice communications are NOT the public domain. They are properties owned by others that we pay a fee to utilize.
Current Games: WOW, EVE Online
I never protested unknowingly a freedom to speech within this domain. I can be critical of needless censorship when my opinion of it is unwarranted. I will watch Fox news if I want, because they can actually be trusted on a much higher scale than anything else. I guess domination in news ratings isnt just a fluke. Some people would just rather be told the truth. Thanks for the suggestion. I think debating the merits and facts related to the topic is much better suited to this thread though.
I dont need a lesson in reality or your nasty paddle. Im american and can achieve anything I want with hard work. Ive fallen into a creek before, its not that life threatening.
Com, this is the best I could find, but I doubt it's exactly what you're looking for- I can't even guarantee the veracity of it.
http://www.wow.com/2007/05/02/player-ganks-womans-character-gets-beat-up-by-husband/
Well said demonshank. I would rather be in a community that policed itself than have the government police the people. This is a free country, for now, and people need to stop running to someone else when they get their feelings hurt, mute the person, confront them, or just log off. There will always be racisim and hatred in this world, no matter what you say. Would it be nice if we could all live in a world of peace and love? Sure but its never happening. You have to expect these things and deal with them. Sucks that it has to be like this but this is the world we live in.
I'd be interested in some specific examples.
"You'll never win an argument with an idiot because he is too stupid to recognize his own defeat." ~Anonymous
Same here. Every news site manipulates to a certain degree. It wouldn't be a news channel without it. Its just cool to hate on Fox news (mainly because most people on the interwebz are atheiset and/or to the left in the political realm).
Really? Do you have some facts to back that up? Hey wait, that is a good example of how FOX reports the "news".
A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true...
Got facts to prove me wrong? I'm just speaking out of my experiences when talking about what type of people use the internet. Ever see what happens when threads are created for politics or religion? Absolute chaos
Something we can both agree on...
A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true...
Off topic but I'll bite.
O'Reilly Completly Busted on his Lies
Bill O'Reilly Attemps to Rewrite History
------
Back to Topic: It is necessary to regulate Hate Speech over the internet to some extent. I play video games as a hobbie, I want to enjoy video games, not to get insulted by a 12 years old basement dweller on the pretence that it's "my fault" if he died when he's the one who rushed in without thinking.
"Free Speech" has nothing to do with this. If you meet a police officer, can you tell that police officer: "Hey, you're stupid!". Well yes you can, but you'll deal with the consequences. There's a limit to Free Speech that many don't seem to understand and it is very easy to cross that line between what is acceptable Free Speech and what is not.
Bill O'Reilly is an editorial/opinion commentator, much like Keith Olbermann of MSNBC or Anderson Cooper of CNN. Got any evidence that Fox News' actual news coverage is manipulated?
"You'll never win an argument with an idiot because he is too stupid to recognize his own defeat." ~Anonymous
[quote]
Bill O'Reilly is an editorial/opinion commentator, much like Keith Olbermann of MSNBC or Anderson Cooper of CNN. Got any evidence that Fox News' actual news coverage is manipulated?
[/b][/quote]
I'm joining in late, but I have evidence that Fox News is sub par. For one, they choose words that can be misconstrued easily, they show pulls that add up to 120% I'm not sure if this happens durring "commentary" but they badger people all the time simply if they don't like what they're saying.
I've generally found that mmo developers handle this kind of problem well. If a problem is reported, then they deal with it. They're responsible about it.
The only exception I've encountered is Horizons. Under the current owners I reported another player for joking that we should just bomb Mecca. I'm not a Muslim, but I found that a bit off.
So I privately suggested to him that those sorts of comments could be regarded by some as offensive. Everyone makes mistakes and I thought a quick word might end it.
But he got really worked-up, sending me increasingly offensive tells ending with "I don't give a flying f$%k if I offend you!". By that stage all I could do was put him on ignore and report him.
Virtrium did nothing.
I'd have expected them to at least warn him, but the response I got after making the complaint and sending in the screenshots was "we feel he understands he shouldn't have said what he did and won't do it again".
I asked exactly how they got from "I don't a flying f$%k if I offend you" to there, but they flat out refused to answer that question.
So I cancelled my subscription - which is a shame because I was enjoying building my lair and had two more months on my sub.
I don't know if they're so pro US military that they approve of comments like that, or they just have such a tiny playerbase that they're scared of disciplining players (their chat channels could get pretty feral) but I think players need to take some responsiblity with these things.
If an mmo developer doesn't hold up their end of the bargain (as per the ToS) stop giving them your money.
If one goes out of their way to be a redneck idiot only redneck idiots will hang around.
I think that is what happens in games and forums with lax moderation. No self-respecting person wants to be associated with that type of behavior.
Fox News almost exclusively uses commentators and special guest to discuss the news. So does CNN and MSNBC for that matter. There is very little actual objective reporting going on anymore. We have editorial news, nowadays.
That's actually not true.
Well partly true - they're not "public domain" but they're also more than "properties".
Legally speaking, MMOs are services - because you pay for them (generally). Anti-discrimination law makes MMO developers vicariously liable for any discriminatory behaviour that they tolerate.
Examples?
(@ the rest of the thread participants-- I know this is off topic, but this point deserves challenging, because just like with many things spoken about here, there's always a ton of accusations without substantiation. I just want to see people back up their claims.)
"You'll never win an argument with an idiot because he is too stupid to recognize his own defeat." ~Anonymous