Even in the beta, with all the asshats, cheaters and bugs - it's way better than my short experience in the DF trial. At least MO has palpable controls, and knows it's purely first-person, instead of making you switch between the viewpoints just to handle idle tasks. DF ism't a bad game for it's ideals, but it sure as hell is for it's interface and stupid controls.
I still can't get over the right-clicker being permanently bound to toggle the cursor. Must be the 5th time I've said it tofay alone, but it makes be want to scream inside. Unintuitive controls does not a "hardcore game" make, though you could argue that it does.
Not permanent bounded, wtf you talking about, my toggle is V
its retarded kids like you that give darkfall a bad name.
Read again and you'll see my beef revolving around the right mouse button being a permanent fixture that cannot be changed from the cursor toggle. Every time you attempt to change it in the options menu it makes the window disappear.
Even a 'retarded kid' could have realised that without inserting his foot in his mouth.
Goddamn Darktards...
Sorry bro, never heard of this before,
Either you are bugged and are the ONLY 1 that has this problem, or you are a retard .
Only 1 meaning, I never heard of it or seen a post on forums, on here or DFO forums.
So, if you do not know how to submit a ticket or "slow", it still results in the same way.
TRY AGAIN, next!
So you are saying you have something else bound to the right mouse button?
If so, then just tell me how to bind parry to it and I'll humbly retract my statement.
Obviously u go to options and then go to Bindings, dont know the exact because I am at work, hence hwy I am on forums or I would be getting high and masturbating to the brady bunch while playing Darkfall ,
but ya mine is Parry, do not mean to come across as mean, but it just that i am used to a lot of haters on this site, sorry .
Working for months on end or even years to get some leg up on new players ..... well it's down right pathetic. Why would anyone pay to work online where there are zero benefits to doing so? What altruistic thing is done here? I mean ... surely if you expect people to work at a game like they do in real life there will be some benefits to doing so as in the real life right?
I dont agree. I use sports as example because sports are games. They are very much like our games, done for recreation, has rules etc.
Good sports player play for YEARS to become the best. Now, as a weekend sports player you dont have to play the best to still have fun.
I have zero problem with an RPG game that can take years to get to top skill level and most MMO's do this without you being fully aware that they are doing it to you. They do it with the cunning use of expansions.
Yes, good sports players play for years to become the best....
yea, people like you want to give steriods to the neophyte soccer players so they can "compete with the vets". The vet soccer players just want to beat neophyte soccer players all day and don't want any competion so they are against the neophyte soccer players getting steroids.
This is basically what you people are saying, lol. You should hear yourselves.
Sports have leagues. You don't put the tidewater tides up against the New York Mets for the championship. What you're doing is insisting you should be allowed to have a team full of ringers take on the local little league team. How screwed up is that?
you missed the point that if the lesser players got steriods, they would then be on near equal terms.
you are just all around fail aren't you?
You could give little Timmy all the steroids in the world it wouldn't make him Barry Bonds. The only thing I missed is you making any sense whatsoever. Maybe I missed it because it's never been there. Hmmm?
Zym...now ya went and pulled Timmy "the Paladin that could" into the argument
I agree with ya totally....besides the fact ya made me LOL with your response.
These DF forums have been good reading for a while now. The OP is just the latest. The QQing is golden.
For AVs sake, they better hope this works. It should of been addressed long ago, and for those that enjoy the game, hopefully it isnt too late. The rumors are that DF has 5 to 20k subs....you dont run a MMO on those numbers. Especially when your game is slowly losing what few subs it has.
With the launch of a box to stores, maybe this will turn it around for them. New folks coming into game can team up and smack any tard ,that is newb ganking, in the nose.
If I was going to play a FFA game(not including EVE), MO's system sounds the better for dealing with gankers. That said, like I already indicated, I feel this was a smart move for AV business-wise. It only takes a few idiots to drive away customers, and it sounds like there are several of them in DF.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
I'm so damn sick of these casuals, carebears DARKFALL ISN'T FOR YOU. Theres a reason why this game WAS called hardcore.
If you can't deal with it play something else for the sake of god we don't want you in this game!
Seems to me the developers do...
/shrug
Thats the reason why many players that liked DF the WAY IT WAS BEFORE YOU DAMN CASUALS ruined everything again will quit soon. I'd rather see it shut down before becoming another game for you spoiled wowkids.
That would be the problem.. by "Hardcore" most assumed it meant a ruthless conflict riddled world where taking a piss break could cost you everything you own. Where the game revolved around personal skill. A competitive world.
But of course that isn't what we found. "Hardcore" players found a world where people banked there crud to keep from losing it in a siege. People that preferred to PvP naked and AFK skillup. We found a bunch of scared no lifers that thought hardcore meant grinding out skill lvl's so that they could pwn any new player that entered the game.
To me Hardcore doesn't mean "Willing to grind for a year just to pwn newbs" but you seem to disagree.
It already was for spoiled WoWkids, instead of being a skill based PvP game it's a gear and stat centric grind game where a lvl 80 would Pwn a lvl 10 in PvP. There isn't a lot of difference in WoW and DFO, some mechanic differences but a lot of similarities at the core.
I dont know what game description you read before coming on board. The one i read talked about many things one of which was an extensive set of skills you could gain. Now, anyone with any amount of gaming experience could understand that advertising the amount of skills you have means that the game will be skill progression based.
Where did consumers ever get the idea that this game was not going to have skill progression. The best I can tell is that they said it that the gap between vet and noob will not be as large compared to most other MMO's which they were 100% correct on.
Where did I say it would have no progression? I never expected a never ending treadmill especially from what I read. And the gap between noob and vet is as large as any level based MMO. And that right there is a problem lol, for a leveless game this game sure does have a lot in common with level based games lol.
Where from any of my posts or others did you get the idea that I or others expected no skill progression? We just weren't expecting something that would shame many Asian grinders. Keep this up and I may have to question your reading comprehension.
I'm so damn sick of these casuals, carebears DARKFALL ISN'T FOR YOU. Theres a reason why this game WAS called hardcore.
If you can't deal with it play something else for the sake of god we don't want you in this game!
Seems to me the developers do...
/shrug
Thats the reason why many players that liked DF the WAY IT WAS BEFORE YOU DAMN CASUALS ruined everything again will quit soon. I'd rather see it shut down before becoming another game for you spoiled wowkids.
That would be the problem.. by "Hardcore" most assumed it meant a ruthless conflict riddled world where taking a piss break could cost you everything you own. Where the game revolved around personal skill. A competitive world.
But of course that isn't what we found. "Hardcore" players found a world where people banked there crud to keep from losing it in a siege. People that preferred to PvP naked and AFK skillup. We found a bunch of scared no lifers that thought hardcore meant grinding out skill lvl's so that they could pwn any new player that entered the game.
To me Hardcore doesn't mean "Willing to grind for a year just to pwn newbs" but you seem to disagree.
It already was for spoiled WoWkids, instead of being a skill based PvP game it's a gear and stat centric grind game where a lvl 80 would Pwn a lvl 10 in PvP. There isn't a lot of difference in WoW and DFO, some mechanic differences but a lot of similarities at the core.
I dont know what game description you read before coming on board. The one i read talked about many things one of which was an extensive set of skills you could gain. Now, anyone with any amount of gaming experience could understand that advertising the amount of skills you have means that the game will be skill progression based.
Where did consumers ever get the idea that this game was not going to have skill progression. The best I can tell is that they said it that the gap between vet and noob will not be as large compared to most other MMO's which they were 100% correct on.
Where did I say it would have no progression? I never expected a never ending treadmill especially from what I read. And the gap between noob and vet is as large as any level based MMO. And that right there is a problem lol, for a leveless game this game sure does have a lot in common with level based games lol.
Where from any of my posts or others did you get the idea that I or others expected no skill progression? We just weren't expecting something that would shame many Asian grinders. Keep this up and I may have to question your reading comprehension.
Are you suggesting to me that if somoene played for a year in EQ2 or WoW that the spread between them and a new player stats would be about the same as it is in DF? that my friend if completely total crazy talk.
The dmg spread between a new player and a vet is about 15:30. granted in other games HP moves up much faster but in games such as WoW I bet the overall difference had got to be about 1:10000 ish
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
I dont know what game description you read before coming on board. The one i read talked about many things one of which was an extensive set of skills you could gain. Now, anyone with any amount of gaming experience could understand that advertising the amount of skills you have means that the game will be skill progression based.
Where did consumers ever get the idea that this game was not going to have skill progression. The best I can tell is that they said it that the gap between vet and noob will not be as large compared to most other MMO's which they were 100% correct on.
Where did I say it would have no progression? I never expected a never ending treadmill especially from what I read. And the gap between noob and vet is as large as any level based MMO. And that right there is a problem lol, for a leveless game this game sure does have a lot in common with level based games lol.
Where from any of my posts or others did you get the idea that I or others expected no skill progression? We just weren't expecting something that would shame many Asian grinders. Keep this up and I may have to question your reading comprehension.
What are you actually talking about then? Two weeks, a month?
Because frankly after two months of relatively casual play, I was at a competitive level with respect to PVP.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
I'm so damn sick of these casuals, carebears DARKFALL ISN'T FOR YOU. Theres a reason why this game WAS called hardcore.
If you can't deal with it play something else for the sake of god we don't want you in this game!
Seems to me the developers do...
/shrug
Thats the reason why many players that liked DF the WAY IT WAS BEFORE YOU DAMN CASUALS ruined everything again will quit soon. I'd rather see it shut down before becoming another game for you spoiled wowkids.
That would be the problem.. by "Hardcore" most assumed it meant a ruthless conflict riddled world where taking a piss break could cost you everything you own. Where the game revolved around personal skill. A competitive world.
But of course that isn't what we found. "Hardcore" players found a world where people banked there crud to keep from losing it in a siege. People that preferred to PvP naked and AFK skillup. We found a bunch of scared no lifers that thought hardcore meant grinding out skill lvl's so that they could pwn any new player that entered the game.
To me Hardcore doesn't mean "Willing to grind for a year just to pwn newbs" but you seem to disagree.
It already was for spoiled WoWkids, instead of being a skill based PvP game it's a gear and stat centric grind game where a lvl 80 would Pwn a lvl 10 in PvP. There isn't a lot of difference in WoW and DFO, some mechanic differences but a lot of similarities at the core.
I dont know what game description you read before coming on board. The one i read talked about many things one of which was an extensive set of skills you could gain. Now, anyone with any amount of gaming experience could understand that advertising the amount of skills you have means that the game will be skill progression based.
Where did consumers ever get the idea that this game was not going to have skill progression. The best I can tell is that they said it that the gap between vet and noob will not be as large compared to most other MMO's which they were 100% correct on.
Where did I say it would have no progression? I never expected a never ending treadmill especially from what I read. And the gap between noob and vet is as large as any level based MMO. And that right there is a problem lol, for a leveless game this game sure does have a lot in common with level based games lol.
Where from any of my posts or others did you get the idea that I or others expected no skill progression? We just weren't expecting something that would shame many Asian grinders. Keep this up and I may have to question your reading comprehension.
Are you suggesting to me that if somoene played for a year in EQ2 or WoW that the spread between them and a new player stats would be about the same as it is in DF? that my friend if completely total crazy talk.
The dmg spread between a new player and a vet is about 15:30. granted in other games HP moves up much faster but in games such as WoW I bet the overall difference had got to be about 1:10000 ish
The fact that the difference is in line with that of a level based game already equals a problem considering this is supposed to be a game based on the absence of levels.
And @ Cecropia
In all honesty I would like a new player to at least have a shot against a vet from day one if they have the player skill. You know like AV advertised. Progression should still exist it just shouldn't dominate.
But again like I said, this whole argument is moot. See .... lol AV is already making changes and has been making changes moving into that direction. They just need to keep it up. The farther down that road they go the more subs they will pick up and keep.
Several have already been heralding the sub increases from the changes. So I think the point is already proven and proven to those that needed to see it
But in any case I will be off time for me to take a vacation from the DFO forums again. I will be back when I have to worry about the skilled newbs taking me down in a 1 vs. 1 or 2 vs. 1 fight because thats the day competition has returned.
The fact that the difference is in line with that of a level based game already equals a problem considering this is supposed to be a game based on the absence of levels.
And @ Cecropia
In all honesty I would like a new player to at least have a shot against a vet from day one if they have the player skill. You know like AV advertised. Progression should still exist it just shouldn't dominate.
But again like I said, this whole argument is moot. See .... lol AV is already making changes and has been making changes moving into that direction. They just need to keep it up. The farther down that road they go the more subs they will pick up and keep.
Several have already been heralding the sub increases from the changes. So I think the point is already proven and proven to those that needed to see it
But in any case I will be off time for me to take a vacation from the DFO forums again. I will be back when I have to worry about the skilled newbs taking me down in a 1 vs. 1 or 2 vs. 1 fight because thats the day competition has returned.
sorry I dont see a 1:2 ratio between vet and noob for darkfall compared to 1:10000 in other MMO's a difference that is 'in line with'.
I am not saying there isnt a large difference between hardcore vet and a noob I am saying its considerably less than it is in other MMO's. The record maters even if its changing.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Wow, Mr. Lumps after pages and pages and pages of responses to your whiny post, you might want to go look in a mirror and wonder where you went wrong. Sounds like you don't need Darkfall, maybe some Call of Duty? By the sound of how high strung you are, you're probably a stroke waiting to happen!
If you're looking for sympathy, it's in the dictionary between Sh*t and Syphilis.
You call yourself a competitive gamer and then you whine about the fact that newer players will be able to compete with you. Do you truly not see the irony in that?
Ka-POW!
Here we are. Art imitating life. People less likely to succed and less likely to put forth effort towards accomplishments have demonstrated time and time again in society that they are entitled to what others have accomplished, but without similar effort, yet an expectation.
Where once DF may have been a competitive outlet where players earn their competitive edge through game-play resources, time and effort, leading to progressively more growth and edge, are now observing welfare gaming.
You sound like this guy.
But then we know he didn't "Earn his money" just like the majority of folks didn't "Earn their advantage" in DF when it is a not so open secret that people rampantly exploited and macro'd (aka cheated) their way to the top in this game for the first year. Which includes those who transferred from the Euro servers who also had a huge head start.
Games I've played/tried out:WAR, LOTRO, Tabula Rasa, AoC, EQ1, EQ2, WoW, Vangaurd, FFXI, D&DO, Lineage 2, Saga Of Ryzom, EvE Online, DAoC, Guild Wars,Star Wars Galaxies, Hell Gate London, Auto Assault, Grando Espada ( AKA SoTNW ), Archlord, CoV/H, Star Trek Online, APB, Champions Online, FFXIV, Rift Online, GW2.
I don't think the problem with DF is the grind. It's the equipment and the levels and stats. If everyone would be the same, then tactics and skill would decide who is best. That would be totally hardcore, and show those newbies, who need to grind to even out their lack of skill, who is the boss.
After reading this thread I have come to respect both sides of the argument.
On one side are those who don't want to spend forever doing boring, repetitive tasks(or macroing, etc) in order to stand a chance in hell against vets who grinded/macroed/ their way up the ladder.
On the other side are those who like being rewarded for their dedication to the game by being rewarded with a far stronger character than newer players.
Now both of these examples illustrate a mature, well thought out opinion of each side. There are subsects of each side that are less thought out and respected.
One side has the insant gratification noobs who wan't to be the best as fast as possible then drop the game.
The other side has elitists who spend long hours grinding away so they can stomp newbs without trying. This is how they have fun in the game.
That being said, I am not sure exactly what the OP's views are other than he likes his work being rewarded. He has said he wants skill, not super powerful abilities to decide a fight, but at the same time advocates superpowered abilities. He also dismisses and argument contrary to what he believes as "not having any idea WTF their talking about". The only people he believes are "smart", "pros" and "not newbs" are those who agree with him. Apparently he has some people who agree with him in game, therefore they are good, and everyone else is a idiot who knows nothing.
To sum up his opinions, if you don't agree with him, you're a moronic newb who makes no sense and has no idea what you're talking about.
After reading this thread I have come to respect both sides of the argument.
On one side are those who don't want to spend forever doing boring, repetitive tasks(or macroing, etc) in order to stand a chance in hell against vets who grinded/macroed/ their way up the ladder.
On the other side are those who like being rewarded for their dedication to the game by being rewarded with a far stronger character than newer players.
Now both of these examples illustrate a mature, well thought out opinion of each side. There are subsects of each side that are less thought out and respected.
One side has the insant gratification noobs who wan't to be the best as fast as possible then drop the game.
The other side has elitists who spend long hours grinding away so they can stomp newbs without trying. This is how they have fun in the game.
That being said, I am not sure exactly what the OP's views are other than he likes his work being rewarded. He has said he wants skill, not super powerful abilities to decide a fight, but at the same time advocates superpowered abilities. He also dismisses and argument contrary to what he believes as "not having any idea WTF their talking about". The only people he believes are "smart", "pros" and "not newbs" are those who agree with him. Apparently he has some people who agree with him in game, therefore they are good, and everyone else is a idiot who knows nothing.
To sum up his opinions, if you don't agree with him, you're a moronic newb who makes no sense and has no idea what you're talking about.
The conclusion I have come to is that the two sides you have given above will never understand each other and will never enjoy the same game together. Thus my suggestion is that industry create a new 'sub-genre' which they are already doing. a sub-genre called 'non-skill progression based MMO's'
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
After reading this thread I have come to respect both sides of the argument.
On one side are those who don't want to spend forever doing boring, repetitive tasks(or macroing, etc) in order to stand a chance in hell against vets who grinded/macroed/ their way up the ladder.
On the other side are those who like being rewarded for their dedication to the game by being rewarded with a far stronger character than newer players.
Now both of these examples illustrate a mature, well thought out opinion of each side. There are subsects of each side that are less thought out and respected.
One side has the insant gratification noobs who wan't to be the best as fast as possible then drop the game.
The other side has elitists who spend long hours grinding away so they can stomp newbs without trying. This is how they have fun in the game.
That being said, I am not sure exactly what the OP's views are other than he likes his work being rewarded. He has said he wants skill, not super powerful abilities to decide a fight, but at the same time advocates superpowered abilities. He also dismisses and argument contrary to what he believes as "not having any idea WTF their talking about". The only people he believes are "smart", "pros" and "not newbs" are those who agree with him. Apparently he has some people who agree with him in game, therefore they are good, and everyone else is a idiot who knows nothing.
To sum up his opinions, if you don't agree with him, you're a moronic newb who makes no sense and has no idea what you're talking about.
The conclusion I have come to is that the two sides you have given above will never understand each other and will never enjoy the same game together. Thus my suggestion is that industry create a new 'sub-genre' which they are already doing. a sub-genre called 'non-skill progression based MMO's'
Once again you are missing the point and over-simplifying the argument. Most of us have not been arguing that there should be NO character progression in Darkfall. We have simply been saying that it should not take as long to reach a truly competitive level with the maxxed out vets as it currently does. Many of us have played and leveled to max in multiple other MMORPGs before Darkfall. We just found the progression in THIS PARTICULAR GAME to be more tedious and boring than many of those other games. Its not a hard concept... there really is a middle ground.
After reading this thread I have come to respect both sides of the argument.
On one side are those who don't want to spend forever doing boring, repetitive tasks(or macroing, etc) in order to stand a chance in hell against vets who grinded/macroed/ their way up the ladder.
On the other side are those who like being rewarded for their dedication to the game by being rewarded with a far stronger character than newer players.
Now both of these examples illustrate a mature, well thought out opinion of each side. There are subsects of each side that are less thought out and respected.
One side has the insant gratification noobs who wan't to be the best as fast as possible then drop the game.
The other side has elitists who spend long hours grinding away so they can stomp newbs without trying. This is how they have fun in the game.
That being said, I am not sure exactly what the OP's views are other than he likes his work being rewarded. He has said he wants skill, not super powerful abilities to decide a fight, but at the same time advocates superpowered abilities. He also dismisses and argument contrary to what he believes as "not having any idea WTF their talking about". The only people he believes are "smart", "pros" and "not newbs" are those who agree with him. Apparently he has some people who agree with him in game, therefore they are good, and everyone else is a idiot who knows nothing.
To sum up his opinions, if you don't agree with him, you're a moronic newb who makes no sense and has no idea what you're talking about.
The conclusion I have come to is that the two sides you have given above will never understand each other and will never enjoy the same game together. Thus my suggestion is that industry create a new 'sub-genre' which they are already doing. a sub-genre called 'non-skill progression based MMO's'
Once again you are missing the point and over-simplifying the argument. Most of us have not been arguing that there should be NO character progression in Darkfall. We have simply been saying that it should not take as long to reach a truly competitive level with the maxxed out vets as it currently does. Many of us have played and leveled to max in multiple other MMORPGs before Darkfall. We just found the progression in THIS PARTICULAR GAME to be more tedious and boring than many of those other games. Its not a hard concept... there really is a middle ground.
I still disagree. The people who like mostly player skill based games are the same people to advocate that the games that take a few weeks to full develop your character are good examples of systems that work.
No, taking a few weeks to develop your character is bulls*t. thats an extended turtorial that is just getting the way of competitive players fun not a progression based skill system. please....give it up!
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
The conclusion I have come to is that the two sides you have given above will never understand each other and will never enjoy the same game together. Thus my suggestion is that industry create a new 'sub-genre' which they are already doing. a sub-genre called 'non-skill progression based MMO's'
Once again you are missing the point and over-simplifying the argument. Most of us have not been arguing that there should be NO character progression in Darkfall. We have simply been saying that it should not take as long to reach a truly competitive level with the maxxed out vets as it currently does. Many of us have played and leveled to max in multiple other MMORPGs before Darkfall. We just found the progression in THIS PARTICULAR GAME to be more tedious and boring than many of those other games. Its not a hard concept... there really is a middle ground.
I still disagree. The people who like mostly player skill based games are the same people to advocate that the games that take a few weeks to full develop your character are good examples of systems that work.
No, taking a few weeks to develop your character is bulls*t. thats an extended turtorial that is just getting the way of competitive players fun not a progression based skill system. please....give it up!
I won't give it up because you are completely wrong in my opinion. The best PvP in MMORPGs exists when players are at the same relative level in character skill. That is where superior understanding of game mechanics, strategy and reflexes really make a difference. In other MMOs, you can reach this level with other end-game characters within 2-3 months (not weeks - again, I never said it should be that quick). Once you reach that level, it is truly competitive.
I don't see anything competitive about letting people who simply have more time easily win against others. Thats not competitive gaming in the slightest... thats boring and imbalanced gaming and it is extremely outdated. It would seem most people on these forums agree with me. It is usually just you and a handful of other vets afraid of losing your advantage who argue on the other side... so why don't YOU give it up!?
I am actually enjoying Darkfall again now that things are at least a little bit more balanced. I'm sorry if you can't take the added competition.
After reading this thread I have come to respect both sides of the argument.
On one side are those who don't want to spend forever doing boring, repetitive tasks(or macroing, etc) in order to stand a chance in hell against vets who grinded/macroed/ their way up the ladder.
On the other side are those who like being rewarded for their dedication to the game by being rewarded with a far stronger character than newer players.
Now both of these examples illustrate a mature, well thought out opinion of each side. There are subsects of each side that are less thought out and respected.
One side has the insant gratification noobs who wan't to be the best as fast as possible then drop the game.
The other side has elitists who spend long hours grinding away so they can stomp newbs without trying. This is how they have fun in the game.
That being said, I am not sure exactly what the OP's views are other than he likes his work being rewarded. He has said he wants skill, not super powerful abilities to decide a fight, but at the same time advocates superpowered abilities. He also dismisses and argument contrary to what he believes as "not having any idea WTF their talking about". The only people he believes are "smart", "pros" and "not newbs" are those who agree with him. Apparently he has some people who agree with him in game, therefore they are good, and everyone else is a idiot who knows nothing.
To sum up his opinions, if you don't agree with him, you're a moronic newb who makes no sense and has no idea what you're talking about.
You nailed it good. It looks like AV realized that they cannot make a profit on the first kind of players, the ones that spent a lot of time to make their char godlike (macro or no macro, it doesn't matter). So they are slowly changing the game to be more friendly for the other crowd, the ones that joined just recently and are getting hammered constantly. The changes (as far as what people say) aren't that huge, but still draw a lot of negative attention from the first crowd. I was in the 2nd crowd, so I know how tough the life of a noob is in DF. I think AV is moving in the right direction. In time, after enough changes (for my taste), I will give DF another chance.
After reading this thread I have come to respect both sides of the argument.
On one side are those who don't want to spend forever doing boring, repetitive tasks(or macroing, etc) in order to stand a chance in hell against vets who grinded/macroed/ their way up the ladder.
On the other side are those who like being rewarded for their dedication to the game by being rewarded with a far stronger character than newer players.
Now both of these examples illustrate a mature, well thought out opinion of each side. There are subsects of each side that are less thought out and respected.
One side has the insant gratification noobs who wan't to be the best as fast as possible then drop the game.
The other side has elitists who spend long hours grinding away so they can stomp newbs without trying. This is how they have fun in the game.
That being said, I am not sure exactly what the OP's views are other than he likes his work being rewarded. He has said he wants skill, not super powerful abilities to decide a fight, but at the same time advocates superpowered abilities. He also dismisses and argument contrary to what he believes as "not having any idea WTF their talking about". The only people he believes are "smart", "pros" and "not newbs" are those who agree with him. Apparently he has some people who agree with him in game, therefore they are good, and everyone else is a idiot who knows nothing.
To sum up his opinions, if you don't agree with him, you're a moronic newb who makes no sense and has no idea what you're talking about.
You nailed it good. It looks like AV realized that they cannot make a profit on the first kind of players, the ones that spent a lot of time to make their char godlike (macro or no macro, it doesn't matter). So they are slowly changing the game to be more friendly for the other crowd, the ones that joined just recently and are getting hammered constantly. The changes (as far as what people say) aren't that huge, but still draw a lot of negative attention from the first crowd. I was in the 2nd crowd, so I know how tough the life of a noob is in DF. I think AV is moving in the right direction. In time, after enough changes (for my taste), I will give DF another chance.
Speaking of grind, can we get off this endless diatribe of calling one camp grind lovers and the other non-grind lovers with all the colorful language that illustrates your hate for the other side just call it endless-skill progression vs low skill progression?
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
The conclusion I have come to is that the two sides you have given above will never understand each other and will never enjoy the same game together. Thus my suggestion is that industry create a new 'sub-genre' which they are already doing. a sub-genre called 'non-skill progression based MMO's'
Once again you are missing the point and over-simplifying the argument. Most of us have not been arguing that there should be NO character progression in Darkfall. We have simply been saying that it should not take as long to reach a truly competitive level with the maxxed out vets as it currently does. Many of us have played and leveled to max in multiple other MMORPGs before Darkfall. We just found the progression in THIS PARTICULAR GAME to be more tedious and boring than many of those other games. Its not a hard concept... there really is a middle ground.
I still disagree. The people who like mostly player skill based games are the same people to advocate that the games that take a few weeks to full develop your character are good examples of systems that work.
No, taking a few weeks to develop your character is bulls*t. thats an extended turtorial that is just getting the way of competitive players fun not a progression based skill system. please....give it up!
I won't give it up because you are completely wrong in my opinion. The best PvP in MMORPGs exists when players are at the same relative level in character skill. That is where superior understanding of game mechanics, strategy and reflexes really make a difference. In other MMOs, you can reach this level with other end-game characters within 2-3 months (not weeks - again, I never said it should be that quick). Once you reach that level, it is truly competitive.
I don't see anything competitive about letting people who simply have more time easily win against others. Thats not competitive gaming in the slightest... thats boring and imbalanced gaming and it is extremely outdated. It would seem most people on these forums agree with me. It is usually just you and a handful of other vets afraid of losing your advantage who argue on the other side... so why don't YOU give it up!?
I am actually enjoying Darkfall again now that things are at least a little bit more balanced. I'm sorry if you can't take the added competition.
I agree with Anub. DF was advertised and still is a primarily PvP game. PvE is just another thing for those bored with PvP to do. So why would this secondary thing be the primary focus of the game for such a long time? Imagine Counterstrike suddenly requiring you playing for 2 months in single player mode to gain enough "skills and levels" to join a server and start shooting people up? Ridiculous! oh, and please nobody say CS and DF are 2 different games, yeah they are different, but the PvP aspect is not. PvP is PvP in any game, CS, DF, WoW...
So yeah, 2 weeks is MORE then enough time for doing other things before becomeing viable in PvP. Its like trying to hook up with a girl and spending 2 years of doing chores for her, taking her shopping, buying her cloths, listeining to her yapping... for 2 years! I don't wanna waste 2 of my years doing all that just to get her in the sack. 2 weeks is more then enough. If DF demands 2 years, well, DF will remain a virgin for a loooong time. Time to screw an "easier" game.
As my reply to this thread may be a bit late - I must say the ONLY reason I quit Darkfall was because of 2 reasons:
1. The difference in HP between a newer casual player (2+ months) and a vet (1 year)
2. The relentless ganking of noobs in noob zones by super geared, mounted players. (literally I have never been ganked by someone of my gear/stat level)
So it seems they are taking steps in the right direction, but I just don't understand why elite, super chars go around killing people for virtually nothing but making them run for 15 minutes and lossing 100-200 gold and some loot.
The conclusion I have come to is that the two sides you have given above will never understand each other and will never enjoy the same game together. Thus my suggestion is that industry create a new 'sub-genre' which they are already doing. a sub-genre called 'non-skill progression based MMO's'
Once again you are missing the point and over-simplifying the argument. Most of us have not been arguing that there should be NO character progression in Darkfall. We have simply been saying that it should not take as long to reach a truly competitive level with the maxxed out vets as it currently does. Many of us have played and leveled to max in multiple other MMORPGs before Darkfall. We just found the progression in THIS PARTICULAR GAME to be more tedious and boring than many of those other games. Its not a hard concept... there really is a middle ground.
I still disagree. The people who like mostly player skill based games are the same people to advocate that the games that take a few weeks to full develop your character are good examples of systems that work.
No, taking a few weeks to develop your character is bulls*t. thats an extended turtorial that is just getting the way of competitive players fun not a progression based skill system. please....give it up!
I won't give it up because you are completely wrong in my opinion. The best PvP in MMORPGs exists when players are at the same relative level in character skill. That is where superior understanding of game mechanics, strategy and reflexes really make a difference. In other MMOs, you can reach this level with other end-game characters within 2-3 months (not weeks - again, I never said it should be that quick). Once you reach that level, it is truly competitive.
I don't see anything competitive about letting people who simply have more time easily win against others. Thats not competitive gaming in the slightest... thats boring and imbalanced gaming and it is extremely outdated. It would seem most people on these forums agree with me. It is usually just you and a handful of other vets afraid of losing your advantage who argue on the other side... so why don't YOU give it up!?
I am actually enjoying Darkfall again now that things are at least a little bit more balanced. I'm sorry if you can't take the added competition.
I agree with Anub. DF was advertised and still is a primarily PvP game. PvE is just another thing for those bored with PvP to do. So why would this secondary thing be the primary focus of the game for such a long time? Imagine Counterstrike suddenly requiring you playing for 2 months in single player mode to gain enough "skills and levels" to join a server and start shooting people up? Ridiculous! oh, and please nobody say CS and DF are 2 different games, yeah they are different, but the PvP aspect is not. PvP is PvP in any game, CS, DF, WoW...
So yeah, 2 weeks is MORE then enough time for doing other things before becomeing viable in PvP. Its like trying to hook up with a girl and spending 2 years of doing chores for her, taking her shopping, buying her cloths, listeining to her yapping... for 2 years! I don't wanna waste 2 of my years doing all that just to get her in the sack. 2 weeks is more then enough. If DF demands 2 years, well, DF will remain a virgin for a loooong time. Time to screw an "easier" game.
this is why I dont understand why my suggestion is to terrible. What I am suggesting is an MMO that allows you to jump in and start f8cking right away. ZERO dates, ZERO listening to her talk, ZERO skill progression.
But your side of the camp keeps contradicting itself. Either you want skill progression becuase you like it or you dont, not both.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Comments
Obviously u go to options and then go to Bindings, dont know the exact because I am at work, hence hwy I am on forums or I would be getting high and masturbating to the brady bunch while playing Darkfall
,
but ya mine is Parry, do not mean to come across as mean, but it just that i am used to a lot of haters on this site, sorry
.
here's a video of some incredibly skilled player using a relatively new character, toying with 3 vets
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FL90XoKiKlU
Zym...now ya went and pulled Timmy "the Paladin that could" into the argument
I agree with ya totally....besides the fact ya made me LOL with your response.
These DF forums have been good reading for a while now. The OP is just the latest. The QQing is golden.
For AVs sake, they better hope this works. It should of been addressed long ago, and for those that enjoy the game, hopefully it isnt too late. The rumors are that DF has 5 to 20k subs....you dont run a MMO on those numbers. Especially when your game is slowly losing what few subs it has.
With the launch of a box to stores, maybe this will turn it around for them. New folks coming into game can team up and smack any tard ,that is newb ganking, in the nose.
If I was going to play a FFA game(not including EVE), MO's system sounds the better for dealing with gankers. That said, like I already indicated, I feel this was a smart move for AV business-wise. It only takes a few idiots to drive away customers, and it sounds like there are several of them in DF.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
Where did I say it would have no progression? I never expected a never ending treadmill especially from what I read. And the gap between noob and vet is as large as any level based MMO. And that right there is a problem lol, for a leveless game this game sure does have a lot in common with level based games lol.
Where from any of my posts or others did you get the idea that I or others expected no skill progression? We just weren't expecting something that would shame many Asian grinders. Keep this up and I may have to question your reading comprehension.
Are you suggesting to me that if somoene played for a year in EQ2 or WoW that the spread between them and a new player stats would be about the same as it is in DF? that my friend if completely total crazy talk.
The dmg spread between a new player and a vet is about 15:30. granted in other games HP moves up much faster but in games such as WoW I bet the overall difference had got to be about 1:10000 ish
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
What are you actually talking about then? Two weeks, a month?
Because frankly after two months of relatively casual play, I was at a competitive level with respect to PVP.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
The fact that the difference is in line with that of a level based game already equals a problem considering this is supposed to be a game based on the absence of levels.
And @ Cecropia
In all honesty I would like a new player to at least have a shot against a vet from day one if they have the player skill. You know like AV advertised. Progression should still exist it just shouldn't dominate.
But again like I said, this whole argument is moot. See .... lol AV is already making changes and has been making changes moving into that direction. They just need to keep it up. The farther down that road they go the more subs they will pick up and keep.
Several have already been heralding the sub increases from the changes. So I think the point is already proven and proven to those that needed to see it
But in any case I will be off time for me to take a vacation from the DFO forums again. I will be back when I have to worry about the skilled newbs taking me down in a 1 vs. 1 or 2 vs. 1 fight because thats the day competition has returned.
sorry I dont see a 1:2 ratio between vet and noob for darkfall compared to 1:10000 in other MMO's a difference that is 'in line with'.
I am not saying there isnt a large difference between hardcore vet and a noob I am saying its considerably less than it is in other MMO's. The record maters even if its changing.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
If I can't say anything else about DF and it's fans I can certainly say they are passionate.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
Wow, Mr. Lumps after pages and pages and pages of responses to your whiny post, you might want to go look in a mirror and wonder where you went wrong. Sounds like you don't need Darkfall, maybe some Call of Duty? By the sound of how high strung you are, you're probably a stroke waiting to happen!
If you're looking for sympathy, it's in the dictionary between Sh*t and Syphilis.
You sound like this guy.
But then we know he didn't "Earn his money" just like the majority of folks didn't "Earn their advantage" in DF when it is a not so open secret that people rampantly exploited and macro'd (aka cheated) their way to the top in this game for the first year. Which includes those who transferred from the Euro servers who also had a huge head start.
Games I've played/tried out:WAR, LOTRO, Tabula Rasa, AoC, EQ1, EQ2, WoW, Vangaurd, FFXI, D&DO, Lineage 2, Saga Of Ryzom, EvE Online, DAoC, Guild Wars,Star Wars Galaxies, Hell Gate London, Auto Assault, Grando Espada ( AKA SoTNW ), Archlord, CoV/H, Star Trek Online, APB, Champions Online, FFXIV, Rift Online, GW2.
Game(s) I Am Currently Playing:
GW2 (+LoL and BF3)
I think only game HC enough for these guys is *fap* *fap* *fap*
I don't understand how a Hardcore Gamer is afraid of anything. For the hardcore gamers the rule is "where more enemies more fun". OP is only a whiner.
DF needs to grow in numbers, as every other game except WoW. That is free market, bud.
It is a question of fangs.
I don't think the problem with DF is the grind. It's the equipment and the levels and stats. If everyone would be the same, then tactics and skill would decide who is best. That would be totally hardcore, and show those newbies, who need to grind to even out their lack of skill, who is the boss.
Let's play Fallen Earth (blind, 300 episodes)
Let's play Guild Wars 2 (blind, 45 episodes)
After reading this thread I have come to respect both sides of the argument.
On one side are those who don't want to spend forever doing boring, repetitive tasks(or macroing, etc) in order to stand a chance in hell against vets who grinded/macroed/ their way up the ladder.
On the other side are those who like being rewarded for their dedication to the game by being rewarded with a far stronger character than newer players.
Now both of these examples illustrate a mature, well thought out opinion of each side. There are subsects of each side that are less thought out and respected.
One side has the insant gratification noobs who wan't to be the best as fast as possible then drop the game.
The other side has elitists who spend long hours grinding away so they can stomp newbs without trying. This is how they have fun in the game.
That being said, I am not sure exactly what the OP's views are other than he likes his work being rewarded. He has said he wants skill, not super powerful abilities to decide a fight, but at the same time advocates superpowered abilities. He also dismisses and argument contrary to what he believes as "not having any idea WTF their talking about". The only people he believes are "smart", "pros" and "not newbs" are those who agree with him. Apparently he has some people who agree with him in game, therefore they are good, and everyone else is a idiot who knows nothing.
To sum up his opinions, if you don't agree with him, you're a moronic newb who makes no sense and has no idea what you're talking about.
The conclusion I have come to is that the two sides you have given above will never understand each other and will never enjoy the same game together. Thus my suggestion is that industry create a new 'sub-genre' which they are already doing. a sub-genre called 'non-skill progression based MMO's'
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Once again you are missing the point and over-simplifying the argument. Most of us have not been arguing that there should be NO character progression in Darkfall. We have simply been saying that it should not take as long to reach a truly competitive level with the maxxed out vets as it currently does. Many of us have played and leveled to max in multiple other MMORPGs before Darkfall. We just found the progression in THIS PARTICULAR GAME to be more tedious and boring than many of those other games. Its not a hard concept... there really is a middle ground.
I still disagree. The people who like mostly player skill based games are the same people to advocate that the games that take a few weeks to full develop your character are good examples of systems that work.
No, taking a few weeks to develop your character is bulls*t. thats an extended turtorial that is just getting the way of competitive players fun not a progression based skill system. please....give it up!
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
I won't give it up because you are completely wrong in my opinion. The best PvP in MMORPGs exists when players are at the same relative level in character skill. That is where superior understanding of game mechanics, strategy and reflexes really make a difference. In other MMOs, you can reach this level with other end-game characters within 2-3 months (not weeks - again, I never said it should be that quick). Once you reach that level, it is truly competitive.
I don't see anything competitive about letting people who simply have more time easily win against others. Thats not competitive gaming in the slightest... thats boring and imbalanced gaming and it is extremely outdated. It would seem most people on these forums agree with me. It is usually just you and a handful of other vets afraid of losing your advantage who argue on the other side... so why don't YOU give it up!?
I am actually enjoying Darkfall again now that things are at least a little bit more balanced. I'm sorry if you can't take the added competition.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
You nailed it good. It looks like AV realized that they cannot make a profit on the first kind of players, the ones that spent a lot of time to make their char godlike (macro or no macro, it doesn't matter). So they are slowly changing the game to be more friendly for the other crowd, the ones that joined just recently and are getting hammered constantly. The changes (as far as what people say) aren't that huge, but still draw a lot of negative attention from the first crowd. I was in the 2nd crowd, so I know how tough the life of a noob is in DF. I think AV is moving in the right direction. In time, after enough changes (for my taste), I will give DF another chance.
I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.
Speaking of grind, can we get off this endless diatribe of calling one camp grind lovers and the other non-grind lovers with all the colorful language that illustrates your hate for the other side just call it endless-skill progression vs low skill progression?
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
I agree with Anub. DF was advertised and still is a primarily PvP game. PvE is just another thing for those bored with PvP to do. So why would this secondary thing be the primary focus of the game for such a long time? Imagine Counterstrike suddenly requiring you playing for 2 months in single player mode to gain enough "skills and levels" to join a server and start shooting people up? Ridiculous! oh, and please nobody say CS and DF are 2 different games, yeah they are different, but the PvP aspect is not. PvP is PvP in any game, CS, DF, WoW...
So yeah, 2 weeks is MORE then enough time for doing other things before becomeing viable in PvP. Its like trying to hook up with a girl and spending 2 years of doing chores for her, taking her shopping, buying her cloths, listeining to her yapping... for 2 years! I don't wanna waste 2 of my years doing all that just to get her in the sack. 2 weeks is more then enough. If DF demands 2 years, well, DF will remain a virgin for a loooong time. Time to screw an "easier" game.
I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.
As my reply to this thread may be a bit late - I must say the ONLY reason I quit Darkfall was because of 2 reasons:
1. The difference in HP between a newer casual player (2+ months) and a vet (1 year)
2. The relentless ganking of noobs in noob zones by super geared, mounted players. (literally I have never been ganked by someone of my gear/stat level)
So it seems they are taking steps in the right direction, but I just don't understand why elite, super chars go around killing people for virtually nothing but making them run for 15 minutes and lossing 100-200 gold and some loot.
I play all ghame
this is why I dont understand why my suggestion is to terrible. What I am suggesting is an MMO that allows you to jump in and start f8cking right away. ZERO dates, ZERO listening to her talk, ZERO skill progression.
But your side of the camp keeps contradicting itself. Either you want skill progression becuase you like it or you dont, not both.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me