Way to ignore everything I have posted and latch on again to a single thing you dislike about a game that has NOTHING to do with this discussion. Consider this my last reply to you. Troll elsewhere.
You're completely missing the point, which is understandable since Hyanmen brought this thread of conversation far off topic to the realm of Lord of the Rings Online as an attempt to nullify my opinion. This isnt a matter of something that can/wont be bought, it's him whining that you cant be every class with every race in LOTRO and claiming that if I can stand THAT then I shouldnt be complaining about 1 character slot in FF. They are completely different complaints and really have nothing to do with each other. Regardless, in its current form (since release), you can play every race and every class with a single subscription for 10 dollars a month. So you can't be a hobbit Captain. Who cares?
The comparison was ridiculous. LOTRO allows you to play a variety of characters AND a variety of LEVELS. Besides that, in a multiplayer game since when have most games ever restricted you to being one character that you get to play with all your friends. I usually have a couple of characters of different levels playing with different people who play at difference times and rates of speed. Some people can only log a few hours a week, and they'll quickly get out-leveled if we don't have lower alts to switch to. Alts have been in the industry since before the term micro-transactions also.
Before someone jumps down my throat about levels, i don't mean character levels. I am using the term loosely to describe the differences between someone at zero hour and 180 hours in the game.
parrotpholk-Because we all know the miracle patch fairy shows up the night before release and sprinkles magic dust on the server to make it allllll better.
Way to ignore everything I have posted and latch on again to a single thing you dislike about a game that has NOTHING to do with this discussion. Consider this my last reply to you. Troll elsewhere.
I summed your whole point right there. Here's my counter point:
So you have to pay for extra characters. Who cares?
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
The comparison was ridiculous. LOTRO allows you to play a variety of characters AND a variety of LEVELS. Besides that, in a multiplayer game since when have most games ever restricted you to being one character that you get to play with all your friends. I usually have a couple of characters of different levels playing with different people who play at difference times and rates of speed. Some people can only log a few hours a week, and they'll quickly get out-leveled if we don't have lower alts to switch to. Alts have been in the industry since before the term micro-transactions also.
All these things can't be done with a single character, much easier and simpler!
It's been this way since the beginning, so it should never change!
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
The comparison was ridiculous. LOTRO allows you to play a variety of characters AND a variety of LEVELS. Besides that, in a multiplayer game since when have most games ever restricted you to being one character that you get to play with all your friends. I usually have a couple of characters of different levels playing with different people who play at difference times and rates of speed. Some people can only log a few hours a week, and they'll quickly get out-leveled if we don't have lower alts to switch to. Alts have been in the industry since before the term micro-transactions also.
Thank you, what you wrote makes my point more eloquently than I originally did. Only allowing 1 character makes it much more difficult to group with people that play less than you, and doesnt allow you to re-do content you might want to replay from early areas.
Multiple toons is an industry standard for a REASON.
Thank you, what you wrote makes my point more eloquently than I originally did. Only allowing 1 character makes it much more difficult to group with people that play less than you, and doesnt allow you to re-do content you might want to replay from early areas.
Multiple toons is an industry standard for a REASON.
That was a problem with FFXI until put in the level sync thing.
My biggest issue with having to pay for another toon is more about my friends being on different servers.
Thank you, what you wrote makes my point more eloquently than I originally did. Only allowing 1 character makes it much more difficult to group with people that play less than you, and doesnt allow you to re-do content you might want to replay from early areas.
Multiple toons is an industry standard for a REASON.
That was a problem with FFXI until put in the level sync thing.
My biggest issue with having to pay for another toon is more about my friends being on different servers.
There are a lot of valid reasons to want an alt. For some reason we just have a couple of die-hard fans in here thinking the only reason is to want to play all the races and characters. Of course the reasons don't change the fact that this slot is a micro-tran. The important part of the cash shop is not the shop part but the cash component.
parrotpholk-Because we all know the miracle patch fairy shows up the night before release and sprinkles magic dust on the server to make it allllll better.
There are a lot of valid reasons to want an alt. For some reason we just have a couple of die-hard fans in here thinking the only reason is to want to play all the races and characters. Of course the reasons don't change the fact that this slot is a micro-tran. The important part of the cash shop is not the shop part but the cash component.
A) You share your account with someone
Somebody wants to roleplay some other race
C) Different characters on different servers
That doesn't account the majority of people who will prefer to play one character in this game. The game is better for them than any other game.
And if you belong in A, B or C group... tough luck!
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
There are a lot of valid reasons to want an alt. For some reason we just have a couple of die-hard fans in here thinking the only reason is to want to play all the races and characters. Of course the reasons don't change the fact that this slot is a micro-tran. The important part of the cash shop is not the shop part but the cash component.
A) You share your account with someone
Somebody wants to roleplay some other race
C) Different characters on different servers
That doesn't account the majority of people who will prefer to play one character in this game. The game is better for them than any other game.
And if you belong in A, B or C group... tough luck!
You've missed several reasons, many of which have been brought up. Obviously you are not in the mood to listen or read, so there is no point in having a discussion with someone who wants to talk over people instead of talk with them.
parrotpholk-Because we all know the miracle patch fairy shows up the night before release and sprinkles magic dust on the server to make it allllll better.
I just want to pay for the game and the monthly fee, nothing else.
Label it as a microtransaction or whatever you want, if I feel like makeing a new character then I should have the freedom to do it without paying extra for ANYTHING.
Bottom line, we should only pay for the game and monthly fee, no Extra BS character slots etc. I'm already paying a monthly fee to play, so let me play the game however I want to play it, even if it means multiple character on an account that I am already paying for.
I just want to pay for the game and the monthly fee, nothing else.
Label it as a microtransaction or whatever you want, if I feel like makeing a new character then I should have the freedom to do it without paying extra for ANYTHING.
Bottom line, we should only pay for the game and monthly fee, no Extra BS character slots etc. I'm already paying a monthly fee to play, so let me play the game however I want to play it, even if it means multiple character on an account that I am already paying for.
I just want to pay for the game and the monthly fee, nothing else.
Label it as a microtransaction or whatever you want, if I feel like makeing a new character then I should have the freedom to do it without paying extra for ANYTHING.
Bottom line, we should only pay for the game and monthly fee, no Extra BS character slots etc. I'm already paying a monthly fee to play, so let me play the game however I want to play it, even if it means multiple character on an account that I am already paying for.
so you rather have 1 slot k
How could you possibly translate things like "if I feel like makeing a new character then I should have the freedom to do it without paying extra for ANYTHING." into "you only want 1 character".
His point is, you shouldnt be required to pay to have more than 1 character to begin with. The fact that you have to pay an additional fee to have that character = MICROTRANSACTION (or whatever the hell you want to call it that means the same thing but makes you feel better.... kind of like instead of saying "shit" you say "doodoo" cause it makes you feel warm and fuzzy inside).
You and some others are arguing that there are no MTs in XI and that there will not be any in XIV.... but they ARE in XI and not only will those same ones also most likely be in XIV they will likely have others as well.
Just look at the portion i quoted way back in the beggining of the thread from the OP about "if there is enough DEMAND". Thats just sugar coating it to make you feel better, but still basically saying "we most likely will have MTs". Seriously, how can there be a "demand" for it? Did WoW players "demand" things like $25 ponies? No, but Blizzard offered them and people bought them. Looks like SE may very well move in a similar direction, if not at launch, then further down the road after theyve already got you invested in the game.
I just want to pay for the game and the monthly fee, nothing else.
Label it as a microtransaction or whatever you want, if I feel like makeing a new character then I should have the freedom to do it without paying extra for ANYTHING.
Bottom line, we should only pay for the game and monthly fee, no Extra BS character slots etc. I'm already paying a monthly fee to play, so let me play the game however I want to play it, even if it means multiple character on an account that I am already paying for.
I don't mind microtransactions, but yeah you're a part of the crowd that I wanted to hear from.
For you sOnE and anyone else in this subset, would 4 character slots? Or hell even 3 be enough for this game considering all of the factors discussed?
I kill other players because they're smarter than AI, sometimes.
Personally, the more options the better (I'd die for a MT store in XIV that sells nothing but fashion! Oh, the possibilities). But I agree on two parts.
1) The $3 for an extra character is, by definition, a microtransaction.
2) It's a rather lame one at that. There should be no reason why they can't offer 3 slots.
A microtransaction, to me, is something I pay for only one time and have full access to...and costs no more than $5.00 American.
Adding $3.00 to my subscription fee every month is not a microtransaction. It's a part of the subscription fee. It's an optional part, only added if I want it there. Arguement over.
Paying for extra character slots is BS. I just want to pay for the game and the monthly fee, nothing else. Label it as a microtransaction or whatever you want, if I feel like makeing a new character then I should have the freedom to do it without paying extra for ANYTHING. Bottom line, we should only pay for the game and monthly fee, no Extra BS character slots etc. I'm already paying a monthly fee to play, so let me play the game however I want to play it, even if it means multiple character on an account that I am already paying for.
If XIV were a WoW clone that would be true, however, it isn't and you can enjoy the facets of gameplay with 1 character. The extra slots in a way is a mechanism more for dealing with say families who have a single account and play I think.
Asking as much as wow did for their magical sparkling ponies and then calling it micro transactions is just plain evil. The whole name ‘micro transactions’ is fake; the idea was nice at the start but it is being exploited to an extend where it should be called 'mega transactions'. I'm not saying we can't / didn't learn anything from wow and the likes, but FFXIV just earned +1000 internets from me for excluding this kind of practice.
To me this seems like FF cares more about their customers than making the most profit in any given time. PROBABLY because this game will be around long enough and them being decent human beings; their game might just be 'big' enough not to exploit us for magical sparkling ponies and for that reason they actually won’t do it? Anyway, FINALLY! No Micros! That is my fantasy you know.
STOP fighting and arguing about a 1$ monthly fee for an added character slot.
If you can't afford that small fee, you might want to stop playing and go back to shcool or get out of your third world country and immigrate to Canada or U.S.A or something...
o_O
it's $3 for playable character and $1 for an extra retainer.
If it was one character per server this wouldn't bother me so much.
It seems that everyone is forgetting that the subscription fee is going to be $3 less than the average MMO these days. So getting 1 extra character will just bring the monthly cost in-line with most other MMO games.
Still, that will only give you 2 characters, but I really haven't seen any good arguments yet as to why you would NEED more than 1 character.
Really the only 2 arguments that hold any water are these:
1. "I can't make one of every race." Well, that may be, but there's really no NEED to play a character of every race. If FFXIV is going to be anything like FFXI, you wouldn't even have the time required to play 4 or 5 different characters and actually make a real amount of progress at higher levels. There are people that have been playing 1 character from day one in FFXI and still haven't experienced all of the content.
That's pretty crazy if you think about it.
Having said that, I completely see where you're coming from. It's a nice change of pace to switch races every once and a while, and the best advice I can give you there, is either suck it up and spend $3 per character, or make your first character something you don't think you'll get bored of playing.
2. "I can't play with my friends on a different server." I never have understood this argument. If they're your friends, why are you not all playing on the same server? Every time I start a new game I make sure everyone that I even know in passing that is going to be playing starts on the same server.
Anyway, if it comes down to an unforeseen event that puts you and a close friend on different servers you can always pay the $3 to bring up your monthly cost to that of average MMO games, or transfer your character. Character transfers are offered in FFXI, I'm sure they will be in FFXIV at some point too.
"There is as yet insufficient data for a meaningful answer."
I must have two characters because I suffer from obsessive compulsive disorder and must have two of everything. I must also begin each sentence with 'I must'. I must work on this; it's a problem and I'm getting help.
People don't have to play this game if they don't agree with the prices they have to pay. Me? Already have the limited collecttor's edition on pre-order. Can't wait to play this one.
2. "I can't play with my friends on a different server." I never have understood this argument. If they're your friends, why are you not all playing on the same server? Every time I start a new game I make sure everyone that I even know in passing that is going to be playing starts on the same server.
I'm ex-military, my friends are all over the place. We don't talk all that often, but still keep in touch.
I found after I started playing WoW they played too.... just on a different server.
I wanted to play with them, but I didn't give up on the Hunter on Shattered Hand (which was level 47 at the time)
I really haven't seen any good arguments yet as to why you would NEED more than 1 character.
I dont see any reason anyone NEEDS to play this game. Playing a game isn't about needs. It's about WANTS. Multiple character slots are an industry standard for a REASON. People like using different avatars, experiencing the old content again, helping lowbie friends level up without being OP for the area.
Friends dont always message every person they know the moment they pick up a new MMO to tell people what server they're playing on. What about NEW friends that you meet after the game is released that you may want to play with on other servers?
There are thousands of potential reasons for wanting to play an alt. However, ALL of this is irrelevant. The main question is: WHY is SE so intent on disregarding an industry standard that people are happy with and WHY are its few hardcore customers defending them for taking away their power of choice? You dont want to play an alt ever? Thats great! But why praise SE taking away an MMO industry standard feature?
As for is/is not a microtransaction, even the people seemingly trying to defend the game by calling this NOT a microtransaction admit that if it's not a micro, it's something worse: a RECURRING micro fee. If theres anything worse than buying things that should already come with your subscription it's renting them every month and never owning them.
As for "but the subscription fee is so low!!111one" many MMOs have sub fees that low or lower, like the aforementioned LOTRO and many others right here on this website's game list.
It's pretty easy to have friends that game very little and don't tell you they have a game or are playing a game for awhile after it launches. Not everyeone spends their life talking about nothing else but games to everyone they know. I didn't know a friend of mine played LOTRO until after I played and quit the game myself. It happens. I coud tell you her favorite or most hated movies, when she logs on line, where she lives since I send her stuff, all sorts of information. We just never played MMORPGS together. I never thought she had an interest in them even though we do play games together.
I think its pretty narrow-minded for some people to think because they don't have a need, there isn't a need for a feature that's been a basic feature in MMOs since before graphic MMOs even existed.
And of course, the above example is just ONE example of MANY.
parrotpholk-Because we all know the miracle patch fairy shows up the night before release and sprinkles magic dust on the server to make it allllll better.
I think its pretty narrow-minded for some people to think because they don't have a need, there isn't a need for a feature that's been a basic feature in MMOs since before graphic MMOs even existed.
And of course, the above example is just ONE example of MANY.
Agreed. So when are the developers actually going to cut out the BS and remove the class-race limitations and let us level our classes how we want in-game, and not be locked into one class if we don't want to make alts?
It's very narrow-minded and sad, honestly.
And the funniest thing? People never complain about it, because it's the "standard". They don't know of any better so they just accept the norm. I guess they get what they deserve.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
Comments
Way to ignore everything I have posted and latch on again to a single thing you dislike about a game that has NOTHING to do with this discussion. Consider this my last reply to you. Troll elsewhere.
The comparison was ridiculous. LOTRO allows you to play a variety of characters AND a variety of LEVELS. Besides that, in a multiplayer game since when have most games ever restricted you to being one character that you get to play with all your friends. I usually have a couple of characters of different levels playing with different people who play at difference times and rates of speed. Some people can only log a few hours a week, and they'll quickly get out-leveled if we don't have lower alts to switch to. Alts have been in the industry since before the term micro-transactions also.
Before someone jumps down my throat about levels, i don't mean character levels. I am using the term loosely to describe the differences between someone at zero hour and 180 hours in the game.
parrotpholk-Because we all know the miracle patch fairy shows up the night before release and sprinkles magic dust on the server to make it allllll better.
I summed your whole point right there. Here's my counter point:
So you have to pay for extra characters. Who cares?
All these things can't be done with a single character, much easier and simpler!
It's been this way since the beginning, so it should never change!
Thank you, what you wrote makes my point more eloquently than I originally did. Only allowing 1 character makes it much more difficult to group with people that play less than you, and doesnt allow you to re-do content you might want to replay from early areas.
Multiple toons is an industry standard for a REASON.
That was a problem with FFXI until put in the level sync thing.
My biggest issue with having to pay for another toon is more about my friends being on different servers.
There are a lot of valid reasons to want an alt. For some reason we just have a couple of die-hard fans in here thinking the only reason is to want to play all the races and characters. Of course the reasons don't change the fact that this slot is a micro-tran. The important part of the cash shop is not the shop part but the cash component.
parrotpholk-Because we all know the miracle patch fairy shows up the night before release and sprinkles magic dust on the server to make it allllll better.
A) You share your account with someone
C) Different characters on different servers
That doesn't account the majority of people who will prefer to play one character in this game. The game is better for them than any other game.
And if you belong in A, B or C group... tough luck!
You've missed several reasons, many of which have been brought up. Obviously you are not in the mood to listen or read, so there is no point in having a discussion with someone who wants to talk over people instead of talk with them.
parrotpholk-Because we all know the miracle patch fairy shows up the night before release and sprinkles magic dust on the server to make it allllll better.
Paying for extra character slots is BS.
I just want to pay for the game and the monthly fee, nothing else.
Label it as a microtransaction or whatever you want, if I feel like makeing a new character then I should have the freedom to do it without paying extra for ANYTHING.
Bottom line, we should only pay for the game and monthly fee, no Extra BS character slots etc. I'm already paying a monthly fee to play, so let me play the game however I want to play it, even if it means multiple character on an account that I am already paying for.
so you rather have 1 slot k
How could you possibly translate things like "if I feel like makeing a new character then I should have the freedom to do it without paying extra for ANYTHING." into "you only want 1 character".
His point is, you shouldnt be required to pay to have more than 1 character to begin with. The fact that you have to pay an additional fee to have that character = MICROTRANSACTION (or whatever the hell you want to call it that means the same thing but makes you feel better.... kind of like instead of saying "shit" you say "doodoo" cause it makes you feel warm and fuzzy inside).
You and some others are arguing that there are no MTs in XI and that there will not be any in XIV.... but they ARE in XI and not only will those same ones also most likely be in XIV they will likely have others as well.
Just look at the portion i quoted way back in the beggining of the thread from the OP about "if there is enough DEMAND". Thats just sugar coating it to make you feel better, but still basically saying "we most likely will have MTs". Seriously, how can there be a "demand" for it? Did WoW players "demand" things like $25 ponies? No, but Blizzard offered them and people bought them. Looks like SE may very well move in a similar direction, if not at launch, then further down the road after theyve already got you invested in the game.
[Mod Edit]
I don't mind microtransactions, but yeah you're a part of the crowd that I wanted to hear from.
For you sOnE and anyone else in this subset, would 4 character slots? Or hell even 3 be enough for this game considering all of the factors discussed?
I kill other players because they're smarter than AI, sometimes.
Personally, the more options the better (I'd die for a MT store in XIV that sells nothing but fashion! Oh, the possibilities). But I agree on two parts.
1) The $3 for an extra character is, by definition, a microtransaction.
2) It's a rather lame one at that. There should be no reason why they can't offer 3 slots.
My two ¢'s.
A microtransaction, to me, is something I pay for only one time and have full access to...and costs no more than $5.00 American.
Adding $3.00 to my subscription fee every month is not a microtransaction. It's a part of the subscription fee. It's an optional part, only added if I want it there. Arguement over.
If XIV were a WoW clone that would be true, however, it isn't and you can enjoy the facets of gameplay with 1 character. The extra slots in a way is a mechanism more for dealing with say families who have a single account and play I think.Asking as much as wow did for their magical sparkling ponies and then calling it micro transactions is just plain evil. The whole name ‘micro transactions’ is fake; the idea was nice at the start but it is being exploited to an extend where it should be called 'mega transactions'. I'm not saying we can't / didn't learn anything from wow and the likes, but FFXIV just earned +1000 internets from me for excluding this kind of practice.
To me this seems like FF cares more about their customers than making the most profit in any given time. PROBABLY because this game will be around long enough and them being decent human beings; their game might just be 'big' enough not to exploit us for magical sparkling ponies and for that reason they actually won’t do it? Anyway, FINALLY! No Micros! That is my fantasy you know.
it's $3 for playable character and $1 for an extra retainer.
If it was one character per server this wouldn't bother me so much.
Isn't going to stop me from picking it up tho...
It seems that everyone is forgetting that the subscription fee is going to be $3 less than the average MMO these days. So getting 1 extra character will just bring the monthly cost in-line with most other MMO games.
Still, that will only give you 2 characters, but I really haven't seen any good arguments yet as to why you would NEED more than 1 character.
Really the only 2 arguments that hold any water are these:
1. "I can't make one of every race." Well, that may be, but there's really no NEED to play a character of every race. If FFXIV is going to be anything like FFXI, you wouldn't even have the time required to play 4 or 5 different characters and actually make a real amount of progress at higher levels. There are people that have been playing 1 character from day one in FFXI and still haven't experienced all of the content.
That's pretty crazy if you think about it.
Having said that, I completely see where you're coming from. It's a nice change of pace to switch races every once and a while, and the best advice I can give you there, is either suck it up and spend $3 per character, or make your first character something you don't think you'll get bored of playing.
2. "I can't play with my friends on a different server." I never have understood this argument. If they're your friends, why are you not all playing on the same server? Every time I start a new game I make sure everyone that I even know in passing that is going to be playing starts on the same server.
Anyway, if it comes down to an unforeseen event that puts you and a close friend on different servers you can always pay the $3 to bring up your monthly cost to that of average MMO games, or transfer your character. Character transfers are offered in FFXI, I'm sure they will be in FFXIV at some point too.
"There is as yet insufficient data for a meaningful answer."
I must have two characters because I suffer from obsessive compulsive disorder and must have two of everything. I must also begin each sentence with 'I must'. I must work on this; it's a problem and I'm getting help.
Not liking you back just takes too much energy.
People don't have to play this game if they don't agree with the prices they have to pay. Me? Already have the limited collecttor's edition on pre-order. Can't wait to play this one.
I'm ex-military, my friends are all over the place. We don't talk all that often, but still keep in touch.
I found after I started playing WoW they played too.... just on a different server.
I wanted to play with them, but I didn't give up on the Hunter on Shattered Hand (which was level 47 at the time)
I dont see any reason anyone NEEDS to play this game. Playing a game isn't about needs. It's about WANTS. Multiple character slots are an industry standard for a REASON. People like using different avatars, experiencing the old content again, helping lowbie friends level up without being OP for the area.
Friends dont always message every person they know the moment they pick up a new MMO to tell people what server they're playing on. What about NEW friends that you meet after the game is released that you may want to play with on other servers?
There are thousands of potential reasons for wanting to play an alt. However, ALL of this is irrelevant. The main question is: WHY is SE so intent on disregarding an industry standard that people are happy with and WHY are its few hardcore customers defending them for taking away their power of choice? You dont want to play an alt ever? Thats great! But why praise SE taking away an MMO industry standard feature?
As for is/is not a microtransaction, even the people seemingly trying to defend the game by calling this NOT a microtransaction admit that if it's not a micro, it's something worse: a RECURRING micro fee. If theres anything worse than buying things that should already come with your subscription it's renting them every month and never owning them.
As for "but the subscription fee is so low!!111one" many MMOs have sub fees that low or lower, like the aforementioned LOTRO and many others right here on this website's game list.
It's pretty easy to have friends that game very little and don't tell you they have a game or are playing a game for awhile after it launches. Not everyeone spends their life talking about nothing else but games to everyone they know. I didn't know a friend of mine played LOTRO until after I played and quit the game myself. It happens. I coud tell you her favorite or most hated movies, when she logs on line, where she lives since I send her stuff, all sorts of information. We just never played MMORPGS together. I never thought she had an interest in them even though we do play games together.
I think its pretty narrow-minded for some people to think because they don't have a need, there isn't a need for a feature that's been a basic feature in MMOs since before graphic MMOs even existed.
And of course, the above example is just ONE example of MANY.
parrotpholk-Because we all know the miracle patch fairy shows up the night before release and sprinkles magic dust on the server to make it allllll better.
Agreed. So when are the developers actually going to cut out the BS and remove the class-race limitations and let us level our classes how we want in-game, and not be locked into one class if we don't want to make alts?
It's very narrow-minded and sad, honestly.
And the funniest thing? People never complain about it, because it's the "standard". They don't know of any better so they just accept the norm. I guess they get what they deserve.