As somebody else pointed out, Sci-Fi is just a subgenre of Fantasy.
That statement is wrong. Sci-fi is not a sub-genre of fantasy, they are sub-genre of Fiction.
Subgenre was the wrong term. Sci-Fi's roots are in Fantasy was more the gist we were going with. At a high level, they are interchangeable...but one came before the other, etc.
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Most people aren't familiar with hard sci-fi. Most people's idea of sci-fi is Star Wars, Star Trek and a few other pop sci-fi movies that take the exact opposite approach of hard sci-fi.
Pop sci-fi: they design something that looks cool. When asked for an explanation they say "it's science".
Hard sci-fi: they get scientific concepts and extrapolate them in order to design cool things.
Pop sci-fi uses science just like Fantasy uses magic.
It's really meant to contend with the statement above. And it's only used to support the idea that there are millions and millions of people that do not find Sci-fi boring.
How many of them know that what they are watching is Sci-Fi and how many think of it just as an adventure or action movie?
Take a look at Avatar at IMDB and the genres that it falls under: Action, Adventure, Sci-Fi, and Fantasy.
It has been voted the #30 Action movie, #29 Adventure, #17 Sci-Fi, and #18 Fantasy.
Uhh.... many people, in fact millions of people, do not find the sci-fi genre boring. It's not that hard.
It's really meant to contend with the statement above. And it's only used to support the idea that there are millions and millions of people that do not find Sci-fi boring.
How many of them know that what they are watching is Sci-Fi and how many think of it just as an adventure or action movie?
Take a look at Avatar at IMDB and the genres that it falls under: Action, Adventure, Sci-Fi, and Fantasy.
It has been voted the #30 Action movie, #29 Adventure, #17 Sci-Fi, and #18 Fantasy.
Uhh.... many people, in fact millions of people, do not find the sci-fi genre boring. It's not that hard.
I am going to go with the possibility that I did not successfully communicate my point well rather than make any comments about not reading what I said, ignoring what I said, or just trolling what I said...
Movies fall into multiple genres. In the case of Avatar, how many people went to see it thinking they were going to see a Sci-Fi movie? How many went thinking they were going to see a Fantasy, Action, or Adventure movie?
One can utilize a list of movies to state that Sci-Fi movies are dominant when those movies are classified under a myriad of genres.
I did not state anything in regard to anybody finding sci-fi boring.
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
It's really meant to contend with the statement above. And it's only used to support the idea that there are millions and millions of people that do not find Sci-fi boring.
How many of them know that what they are watching is Sci-Fi and how many think of it just as an adventure or action movie?
Take a look at Avatar at IMDB and the genres that it falls under: Action, Adventure, Sci-Fi, and Fantasy.
It has been voted the #30 Action movie, #29 Adventure, #17 Sci-Fi, and #18 Fantasy.
Uhh.... many people, in fact millions of people, do not find the sci-fi genre boring. It's not that hard.
I am going to go with the possibility that I did not successfully communicate my point well rather than make any comments about not reading what I said, ignoring what I said, or just trolling what I said...
Movies fall into multiple genres. In the case of Avatar, how many people went to see it thinking they were going to see a Sci-Fi movie? How many went thinking they were going to see a Fantasy, Action, or Adventure movie?
One can utilize a list of movies to state that Sci-Fi movies are dominant when those movies are classified under a myriad of genres.
I did not state anything in regard to anybody finding sci-fi boring.
It's really meant to contend with the statement above. And it's only used to support the idea that there are millions and millions of people that do not find Sci-fi boring.
How many of them know that what they are watching is Sci-Fi and how many think of it just as an adventure or action movie?
Take a look at Avatar at IMDB and the genres that it falls under: Action, Adventure, Sci-Fi, and Fantasy.
It has been voted the #30 Action movie, #29 Adventure, #17 Sci-Fi, and #18 Fantasy.
Uhh.... many people, in fact millions of people, do not find the sci-fi genre boring. It's not that hard.
I am going to go with the possibility that I did not successfully communicate my point well rather than make any comments about not reading what I said, ignoring what I said, or just trolling what I said...
Movies fall into multiple genres. In the case of Avatar, how many people went to see it thinking they were going to see a Sci-Fi movie? How many went thinking they were going to see a Fantasy, Action, or Adventure movie?
One can utilize a list of movies to state that Sci-Fi movies are dominant when those movies are classified under a myriad of genres.
I did not state anything in regard to anybody finding sci-fi boring.
Cool, then we both agree.
I did not state that either. If you insist upon trolling and baiting, I will have no issue reporting you for such.
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
It's really meant to contend with the statement above. And it's only used to support the idea that there are millions and millions of people that do not find Sci-fi boring.
How many of them know that what they are watching is Sci-Fi and how many think of it just as an adventure or action movie?
Take a look at Avatar at IMDB and the genres that it falls under: Action, Adventure, Sci-Fi, and Fantasy.
It has been voted the #30 Action movie, #29 Adventure, #17 Sci-Fi, and #18 Fantasy.
Uhh.... many people, in fact millions of people, do not find the sci-fi genre boring. It's not that hard.
I am going to go with the possibility that I did not successfully communicate my point well rather than make any comments about not reading what I said, ignoring what I said, or just trolling what I said...
Movies fall into multiple genres. In the case of Avatar, how many people went to see it thinking they were going to see a Sci-Fi movie? How many went thinking they were going to see a Fantasy, Action, or Adventure movie?
One can utilize a list of movies to state that Sci-Fi movies are dominant when those movies are classified under a myriad of genres.
I did not state anything in regard to anybody finding sci-fi boring.
Cool, then we both agree.
I did not state that either. If you insist upon trolling and baiting, I will have no issue reporting you for such.
Then we can report each other for baiting. All I said is that I think millions of people do not feel that sci-fi is boring. That is evidenced by the fact that there is so much sci-fi entertainment not only available, but widely popular.
But the ebay thing really wouldn't work too well. It would still have to get delivered somewhere if you were trying to be realistic, so what, you order it to your house then come back a couple days later to find it there? Or do you pay extra for 1 day delivery. I think it would get tedious to implement that system. The calling npc's would be nice, but then they would have to add a lot more quests or incentive to grind or farm since it would take a HELL of a lot less time to just constantly call get a new quest, call turn it in.
Well, we can split hairs over what is and is not science fiction all week, but that still won't actually answer the OP's topic...
Fact is, every work of fiction has multiple classifications; genre is subjective at best, arbitrary at worst. I will pose a few examples from my time working at a Borders Books:
We had a section consisting of Sci-Fi/Fantasy (all shelved together), Mystery/Thriller, Horror, Romance, and Western, referred to as "Popular Fiction." Concurrently, we also had a Young Adult section, which basically contained any story with teenage protagonists (or child protagonists with adult themes, such as Ender's Game, though the whole of the series was ALSO shelved in Sci-Fi/Fantasy), regardless of where they would otherwise be shelved. The hated Twilight springs to mind, due to its heavy teenage angst-driven plot. However, almost anything else with vampires not in an overtly High Fantasy setting wound up in Horror, such as Laurell K. Hamilton's Anita Blake series (even though some of her books wound up in Romance). To complicate matters further, Anne Rice's books were shelved outside of Popular Fiction entirely, with Literature.
So arguing about genre definitions is ultimately fruitless. The truth is in the eye of the beholder.
It's really meant to contend with the statement above. And it's only used to support the idea that there are millions and millions of people that do not find Sci-fi boring.
How many of them know that what they are watching is Sci-Fi and how many think of it just as an adventure or action movie?
Take a look at Avatar at IMDB and the genres that it falls under: Action, Adventure, Sci-Fi, and Fantasy.
It has been voted the #30 Action movie, #29 Adventure, #17 Sci-Fi, and #18 Fantasy.
Uhh.... many people, in fact millions of people, do not find the sci-fi genre boring. It's not that hard.
I am going to go with the possibility that I did not successfully communicate my point well rather than make any comments about not reading what I said, ignoring what I said, or just trolling what I said...
Movies fall into multiple genres. In the case of Avatar, how many people went to see it thinking they were going to see a Sci-Fi movie? How many went thinking they were going to see a Fantasy, Action, or Adventure movie?
One can utilize a list of movies to state that Sci-Fi movies are dominant when those movies are classified under a myriad of genres.
I did not state anything in regard to anybody finding sci-fi boring.
Cool, then we both agree.
I did not state that either. If you insist upon trolling and baiting, I will have no issue reporting you for such.
Then we can report each other for baiting. All I said is that I think millions of people do not feel that sci-fi is boring. That is evidenced by the fact that there is so much sci-fi entertainment not only available, but widely popular.
Did not bait you in you the least. Correctly pointed out that the popularity of many movies is because they belong to more than one genre and that to state the popularity of the movie based on a preference for one of those genres while ignoring the others would be an incorrect thing to do.
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Most people aren't familiar with hard sci-fi. Most people's idea of sci-fi is Star Wars, Star Trek and a few other pop sci-fi movies that take the exact opposite approach of hard sci-fi.
Pop sci-fi: they design something that looks cool. When asked for an explanation they say "it's science".
Hard sci-fi: they get scientific concepts and extrapolate them in order to design cool things.
Pop sci-fi uses science just like Fantasy uses magic.
I thought Star Trek was pretty hard[core] sci-fi and it does take a number of scientific concepts and extrapolates on them. The setting is far future but it still counts. But really fiction is fiction. Some seems more plausible than others.
Well, we can split hairs over what is and is not science fiction all week, but that still won't actually answer the OP's topic...
Fact is, every work of fiction has multiple classifications; genre is subjective at best, arbitrary at worst. I will pose a few examples from my time working at a Borders Books:
We had a section consisting of Sci-Fi/Fantasy (all shelved together), Mystery/Thriller, Horror, Romance, and Western, referred to as "Popular Fiction." Concurrently, we also had a Young Adult section, which basically contained any story with teenage protagonists (or child protagonists with adult themes, such as Ender's Game, though the whole of the series was ALSO shelved in Sci-Fi/Fantasy), regardless of where they would otherwise be shelved. The hated Twilight springs to mind, due to its heavy teenage angst-driven plot. However, almost anything else with vampires not in an overtly High Fantasy setting wound up in Horror, such as Laurell K. Hamilton's Anita Blake series (even though some of her books wound up in Romance). To complicate matters further, Anne Rice's books were shelved outside of Popular Fiction entirely, with Literature.
So arguing about genre definitions is ultimately fruitless. The truth is in the eye of the beholder.
The OP's topic has been answered by several people in several ways though. Folks have stepped away from the general term to address the specifics of the complaint. The ongoing debate continues from the OP's general complaint which some take issue with...which would still be part of the OP's topic.
There are two threads within the thread: specific and general. The specific is easy. The general will be fruitless as you stated, but it more likely to generate discussion and one has to wonder if that was the point of it.
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
As somebody else pointed out, Sci-Fi is just a subgenre of Fantasy.
That's what happens when you name your genre and sub-genre the same thing. There's a difference between "fantasy", the set of all things not based on demonstrable reality, and "fantasy", a sub-genre of swords and sorcery. You can't just switch between the two at a whim, saying that everything is fantasy when it's clear the OP was talking about the sub-genre.
Besides, Speculative Fiction -> Fantasy -> Sci-Fi... I have not heard somebody use the term "Fantasy" to cover all speculative fiction.
Uh, fiction IS fantasy.
That is incorrect. Fantasy is a type of fiction. It is a form of speculative fiction. While the word fantasy may have different meanings when discussing different things, when you are discussing literature - the other definitions need not apply.
A person can have a fantasy about the neighbor's wife. Were they to write that story in a modern setting, it would be contemporary fiction and not fantasy fiction.
It is a case of properly using terms, and aside from it perhaps helping some understand why what people have said in this thread - it is not really something that should be discussed beyond the brief (somewhat brief) amount that it has been.
If you want more information on the various terms, there are many sources available for them - the internet, the library, a bookstore, or perhaps even checking with the English department at a local university where either a lit professor or creative writing professor would be able to offer additional resources...
sorry, but anything thats not real is fantasy, it may not be elves and such but still fantasy, fiction is all fantasy, it not just all fantasy in the castles and elves sense, for someone that brings up the dictionary you sure are dodging the way i use fantasy.
Apparently stating the truth in my sig is "trolling" Sig typo fixed thanks to an observant stragen001.
As somebody else pointed out, Sci-Fi is just a subgenre of Fantasy.
That's what happens when you name your genre and sub-genre the same thing. There's a difference between "fantasy", the set of all things not based on demonstrable reality, and "fantasy", a sub-genre of swords and sorcery. You can't just switch between the two at a whim, saying that everything is fantasy when it's clear the OP was talking about the sub-genre.
Besides, Speculative Fiction -> Fantasy -> Sci-Fi... I have not heard somebody use the term "Fantasy" to cover all speculative fiction.
Uh, fiction IS fantasy.
That is incorrect. Fantasy is a type of fiction. It is a form of speculative fiction. While the word fantasy may have different meanings when discussing different things, when you are discussing literature - the other definitions need not apply.
A person can have a fantasy about the neighbor's wife. Were they to write that story in a modern setting, it would be contemporary fiction and not fantasy fiction.
It is a case of properly using terms, and aside from it perhaps helping some understand why what people have said in this thread - it is not really something that should be discussed beyond the brief (somewhat brief) amount that it has been.
If you want more information on the various terms, there are many sources available for them - the internet, the library, a bookstore, or perhaps even checking with the English department at a local university where either a lit professor or creative writing professor would be able to offer additional resources...
sorry, but anything thats not real is fantasy, it may not be elves and such but still fantasy, fiction is all fantasy, it not just all fantasy in the castles and elves sense, for someone that brings up the dictionary you sure are dodging the way i use fantasy.
Do you seriously NOT know that words can have multiple meanings based on context? Obviously, and I mean OBVIOUSLY, the word fantasy in this context refers to 'high fantasy' with the traditional medieval + magic + creatures. Christ on a cracker... I can't believe I have to explain this.
Did not bait you in you the least. Correctly pointed out that the popularity of many movies is because they belong to more than one genre and that to state the popularity of the movie based on a preference for one of those genres while ignoring the others would be an incorrect thing to do.
I understand what you are saying. I disagree with the idea that there isn't some baseline for what constitutes sci-fi.
Avatar, Star wars, Star Trek, Isaac Asimov and Robert Heinlein are sci-fi.
WoW, J.R.R. Tolkien, Harry Potter, Robert Jordan and Everquest are fantasy.
If you want to split hairs over any of those things being in both categories, go right ahead. But there is a generally accepted idea of what sci-fi and fantasy are. And many people find sci-fi, believe it or not, MORE exiting than fantasy and not boring in the least.
As somebody else pointed out, Sci-Fi is just a subgenre of Fantasy.
That's what happens when you name your genre and sub-genre the same thing. There's a difference between "fantasy", the set of all things not based on demonstrable reality, and "fantasy", a sub-genre of swords and sorcery. You can't just switch between the two at a whim, saying that everything is fantasy when it's clear the OP was talking about the sub-genre.
Besides, Speculative Fiction -> Fantasy -> Sci-Fi... I have not heard somebody use the term "Fantasy" to cover all speculative fiction.
Uh, fiction IS fantasy.
That is incorrect. Fantasy is a type of fiction. It is a form of speculative fiction. While the word fantasy may have different meanings when discussing different things, when you are discussing literature - the other definitions need not apply.
A person can have a fantasy about the neighbor's wife. Were they to write that story in a modern setting, it would be contemporary fiction and not fantasy fiction.
It is a case of properly using terms, and aside from it perhaps helping some understand why what people have said in this thread - it is not really something that should be discussed beyond the brief (somewhat brief) amount that it has been.
If you want more information on the various terms, there are many sources available for them - the internet, the library, a bookstore, or perhaps even checking with the English department at a local university where either a lit professor or creative writing professor would be able to offer additional resources...
sorry, but anything thats not real is fantasy, it may not be elves and such but still fantasy, fiction is all fantasy, it not just all fantasy in the castles and elves sense, for someone that brings up the dictionary you sure are dodging the way i use fantasy.
Little Billy was hungry. When he looked in the fridge, he saw the cake for his sister's birthday party later that evening. He was hungry and the cake looked so good. Little Billy wanted a piece of that cake, but he did not want to ruin his sister's party. He closed the fridge door and went back to watching cartoons on TV. He figured he could wait for his sister's party to have cake and did not want to eat anything so he could have lots of cake. On the TV, the cat and mouse were running around through a bakery. They mouse tricked the cat into falling face first into a big cake. The cat, looking at the screen, licked the frosting from his face. Little Billy really wanted a piece of cake now. It was no longer hunger. He wanted cake. Little Billy went back to the fridge, pulled the door open, and stared at the cake. He wondered if anybody would really mind if he had a little piece. He is just a little boy, they would understand. He was hungry and did not know any better. Little Billy could taste the cake as he looked at it. He could feel it on his hands without even touching it. He reached into the fridge...and grabbed an apple. Little Billy went back to watching his cartoons and ate the apple. Later as his mother was cutting his sister's cake, she cut him a big piece of cake. He looked at her and she smiled at him. He wondered if she had known he was tempted to eat the cake. He forgot all about that as the first piece of icing met his tongue.
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Did not bait you in you the least. Correctly pointed out that the popularity of many movies is because they belong to more than one genre and that to state the popularity of the movie based on a preference for one of those genres while ignoring the others would be an incorrect thing to do.
I understand what you are saying. I disagree with the idea that there isn't some baseline for what constitutes sci-fi.
Avatar, Star wars, Star Trek, Isaac Asimov and Robert Heinlein are sci-fi.
WoW, J.R.R. Tolkien, Harry Potter, Robert Jordan and Everquest are fantasy.
If you want to split hairs over any of those things being in both categories, go right ahead. But there is a generally accepted idea of what sci-fi and fantasy are. And many people find sci-fi, believe it or not, MORE exiting than fantasy and not boring in the least.
It is not about whether or not something is sci-fi.
Avatar, per IMDB, is Action, Adventure, Sci-Fi, and Fantasy.
It is not about people having a preference for Sci-Fi or Fantasy.
It is about Tom, Dick, and Harry feeling like going to see an action movie - not caring if it is sci-fi, fantasy, crime, war, etc. If they see one that is sci-fi, it is not because they wanted to see a sci-fi movie. That they wanted to see an action movie has not changed.
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
I think the real issue...as you have pointed out correctly is that most Development Houses have in thier heads a basic preconcieved notion of... This is the formula for making a successfull MMO.... they may be willing to do small variences from that formula to differentiate thier Product...but they simply are too afraid or uncreative to try dramatic shifts or rethinking of that formula... so that even when they are dealing with a Sci-Fi setting...they are still using thier same "This is how you make a successfull MMO playbook."
On a side note, if you actualy took WWII online....added a sci-fi skin to things...and a few more tradition MMO elements.... you'd probably have pretty close to what you are talking about....In fact, I think that would be an awesome game....
Did not bait you in you the least. Correctly pointed out that the popularity of many movies is because they belong to more than one genre and that to state the popularity of the movie based on a preference for one of those genres while ignoring the others would be an incorrect thing to do.
I understand what you are saying. I disagree with the idea that there isn't some baseline for what constitutes sci-fi.
Avatar, Star wars, Star Trek, Isaac Asimov and Robert Heinlein are sci-fi.
WoW, J.R.R. Tolkien, Harry Potter, Robert Jordan and Everquest are fantasy.
If you want to split hairs over any of those things being in both categories, go right ahead. But there is a generally accepted idea of what sci-fi and fantasy are. And many people find sci-fi, believe it or not, MORE exiting than fantasy and not boring in the least.
It is not about whether or not something is sci-fi.
Avatar, per IMDB, is Action, Adventure, Sci-Fi, and Fantasy.
It is not about people having a preference for Sci-Fi or Fantasy.
It is about Tom, Dick, and Harry feeling like going to see an action movie - not caring if it is sci-fi, fantasy, crime, war, etc. If they see one that is sci-fi, it is not because they wanted to see a sci-fi movie. That they wanted to see an action movie has not changed.
Unless you have the capacity to read peoples minds when you are sitting next to them in the theatre.... I don't see what your basis is for asserting that you know WHY they chose to see a particular movie that they did.
Did not bait you in you the least. Correctly pointed out that the popularity of many movies is because they belong to more than one genre and that to state the popularity of the movie based on a preference for one of those genres while ignoring the others would be an incorrect thing to do.
I understand what you are saying. I disagree with the idea that there isn't some baseline for what constitutes sci-fi.
Avatar, Star wars, Star Trek, Isaac Asimov and Robert Heinlein are sci-fi.
WoW, J.R.R. Tolkien, Harry Potter, Robert Jordan and Everquest are fantasy.
If you want to split hairs over any of those things being in both categories, go right ahead. But there is a generally accepted idea of what sci-fi and fantasy are. And many people find sci-fi, believe it or not, MORE exiting than fantasy and not boring in the least.
It is not about whether or not something is sci-fi.
Avatar, per IMDB, is Action, Adventure, Sci-Fi, and Fantasy.
It is not about people having a preference for Sci-Fi or Fantasy.
It is about Tom, Dick, and Harry feeling like going to see an action movie - not caring if it is sci-fi, fantasy, crime, war, etc. If they see one that is sci-fi, it is not because they wanted to see a sci-fi movie. That they wanted to see an action movie has not changed.
Ok...
People don't play WoW because it's fantasy, they play it because of the gameplay mechanics.
People don't play EVE becasue it's sci-fi, they play it because of the market system.
People don't play WoW because it's fantasy, they play it because they like death knights.
People don't play EVE because it's sci-fi, they play it because they like blowing things up.
In reality, people do actually do play games purely based on the fact that it's part of their favorite genre. People also go watch movies and read books because it happens to be part of their favorite genre. If you can't understand that, yes, people do indeed seek out sci-fi entertainment by the boatloads, then I don't know what to say. It's right in front of you.
Believe it or not, a lot of people went to see Avatar because it belonged to the sci-fi genre and they enjoy watching things in that genre.
Did not bait you in you the least. Correctly pointed out that the popularity of many movies is because they belong to more than one genre and that to state the popularity of the movie based on a preference for one of those genres while ignoring the others would be an incorrect thing to do.
I understand what you are saying. I disagree with the idea that there isn't some baseline for what constitutes sci-fi.
Avatar, Star wars, Star Trek, Isaac Asimov and Robert Heinlein are sci-fi.
WoW, J.R.R. Tolkien, Harry Potter, Robert Jordan and Everquest are fantasy.
If you want to split hairs over any of those things being in both categories, go right ahead. But there is a generally accepted idea of what sci-fi and fantasy are. And many people find sci-fi, believe it or not, MORE exiting than fantasy and not boring in the least.
It is not about whether or not something is sci-fi.
Avatar, per IMDB, is Action, Adventure, Sci-Fi, and Fantasy.
It is not about people having a preference for Sci-Fi or Fantasy.
It is about Tom, Dick, and Harry feeling like going to see an action movie - not caring if it is sci-fi, fantasy, crime, war, etc. If they see one that is sci-fi, it is not because they wanted to see a sci-fi movie. That they wanted to see an action movie has not changed.
Unless you have the capacity to read peoples minds when you are sitting next to them in the theatre.... I don't see what your basis is for asserting that you know WHY they chose to see a particular movie that they did.
That is precisely what I was trying to explain to colddog04. Thank you for stating it more clearly.
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
If you look at just Sci-Fi in general you would see that not many people are into it, regardless if it's movie's, games, tv series....ect..ect.
Yeah, that seriously might be it.
In the end, in an overall sense, fantasy is more popular than sci-fi. Gaming companies want to capture as many people as they can and if they offer a two-handed laser-sword wielding class, it brings in more people. Economics are likely what keeps the sci-fi from being "pure".
As somebody else pointed out, Sci-Fi is just a subgenre of Fantasy.
That's what happens when you name your genre and sub-genre the same thing. There's a difference between "fantasy", the set of all things not based on demonstrable reality, and "fantasy", a sub-genre of swords and sorcery. You can't just switch between the two at a whim, saying that everything is fantasy when it's clear the OP was talking about the sub-genre.
Well, I think part of the problem is that a lot of what players think if as "sci-fi" is most likely fantasy.
Star Wars is not sci-fi, it's a fantasy.
Buck Rogers, Flash Gordon, etc. Fantasy
"Sci-Fi" is supposed to deal with man's relationship with technology and how it effects them. Or man's relationship with technology or space and the possibility of what that brings.
I-Robot (movie or book pick your poison) is science fiction, The Last Man on Earth (which others probably know as "I am Legend") is Science Fiction. Foundation Series is Science Fiction. West World and Logan's Run are Science Fiction.
John Carter of Mars is NOT science fiction.
So having said that, the lure of fantasy is strong because it allows for things that could never be as opposed to things that very well could be. Whether it takes place in space or in some sort of quasi-medieval world is something else.
There is a romanticism with fantasy whereas science fiction seems to be a bit colder, a bit more of a dash of possible reality.
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Comments
Subgenre was the wrong term. Sci-Fi's roots are in Fantasy was more the gist we were going with. At a high level, they are interchangeable...but one came before the other, etc.
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%
Problem here is:
Most people aren't familiar with hard sci-fi. Most people's idea of sci-fi is Star Wars, Star Trek and a few other pop sci-fi movies that take the exact opposite approach of hard sci-fi.
Pop sci-fi: they design something that looks cool. When asked for an explanation they say "it's science".
Hard sci-fi: they get scientific concepts and extrapolate them in order to design cool things.
Pop sci-fi uses science just like Fantasy uses magic.
Uhh.... many people, in fact millions of people, do not find the sci-fi genre boring. It's not that hard.
I am going to go with the possibility that I did not successfully communicate my point well rather than make any comments about not reading what I said, ignoring what I said, or just trolling what I said...
Movies fall into multiple genres. In the case of Avatar, how many people went to see it thinking they were going to see a Sci-Fi movie? How many went thinking they were going to see a Fantasy, Action, or Adventure movie?
One can utilize a list of movies to state that Sci-Fi movies are dominant when those movies are classified under a myriad of genres.
I did not state anything in regard to anybody finding sci-fi boring.
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%
Cool, then we both agree.
I did not state that either. If you insist upon trolling and baiting, I will have no issue reporting you for such.
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%
Then we can report each other for baiting. All I said is that I think millions of people do not feel that sci-fi is boring. That is evidenced by the fact that there is so much sci-fi entertainment not only available, but widely popular.
But the ebay thing really wouldn't work too well. It would still have to get delivered somewhere if you were trying to be realistic, so what, you order it to your house then come back a couple days later to find it there? Or do you pay extra for 1 day delivery. I think it would get tedious to implement that system. The calling npc's would be nice, but then they would have to add a lot more quests or incentive to grind or farm since it would take a HELL of a lot less time to just constantly call get a new quest, call turn it in.
Well, we can split hairs over what is and is not science fiction all week, but that still won't actually answer the OP's topic...
Fact is, every work of fiction has multiple classifications; genre is subjective at best, arbitrary at worst. I will pose a few examples from my time working at a Borders Books:
We had a section consisting of Sci-Fi/Fantasy (all shelved together), Mystery/Thriller, Horror, Romance, and Western, referred to as "Popular Fiction." Concurrently, we also had a Young Adult section, which basically contained any story with teenage protagonists (or child protagonists with adult themes, such as Ender's Game, though the whole of the series was ALSO shelved in Sci-Fi/Fantasy), regardless of where they would otherwise be shelved. The hated Twilight springs to mind, due to its heavy teenage angst-driven plot. However, almost anything else with vampires not in an overtly High Fantasy setting wound up in Horror, such as Laurell K. Hamilton's Anita Blake series (even though some of her books wound up in Romance). To complicate matters further, Anne Rice's books were shelved outside of Popular Fiction entirely, with Literature.
So arguing about genre definitions is ultimately fruitless. The truth is in the eye of the beholder.
Did not bait you in you the least. Correctly pointed out that the popularity of many movies is because they belong to more than one genre and that to state the popularity of the movie based on a preference for one of those genres while ignoring the others would be an incorrect thing to do.
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%
I thought Star Trek was pretty hard[core] sci-fi and it does take a number of scientific concepts and extrapolates on them. The setting is far future but it still counts. But really fiction is fiction. Some seems more plausible than others.
The OP's topic has been answered by several people in several ways though. Folks have stepped away from the general term to address the specifics of the complaint. The ongoing debate continues from the OP's general complaint which some take issue with...which would still be part of the OP's topic.
There are two threads within the thread: specific and general. The specific is easy. The general will be fruitless as you stated, but it more likely to generate discussion and one has to wonder if that was the point of it.
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%
sorry, but anything thats not real is fantasy, it may not be elves and such but still fantasy, fiction is all fantasy, it not just all fantasy in the castles and elves sense, for someone that brings up the dictionary you sure are dodging the way i use fantasy.
Apparently stating the truth in my sig is "trolling"
Sig typo fixed thanks to an observant stragen001.
Do you seriously NOT know that words can have multiple meanings based on context? Obviously, and I mean OBVIOUSLY, the word fantasy in this context refers to 'high fantasy' with the traditional medieval + magic + creatures. Christ on a cracker... I can't believe I have to explain this.
I understand what you are saying. I disagree with the idea that there isn't some baseline for what constitutes sci-fi.
Avatar, Star wars, Star Trek, Isaac Asimov and Robert Heinlein are sci-fi.
WoW, J.R.R. Tolkien, Harry Potter, Robert Jordan and Everquest are fantasy.
If you want to split hairs over any of those things being in both categories, go right ahead. But there is a generally accepted idea of what sci-fi and fantasy are. And many people find sci-fi, believe it or not, MORE exiting than fantasy and not boring in the least.
Little Billy was hungry. When he looked in the fridge, he saw the cake for his sister's birthday party later that evening. He was hungry and the cake looked so good. Little Billy wanted a piece of that cake, but he did not want to ruin his sister's party. He closed the fridge door and went back to watching cartoons on TV. He figured he could wait for his sister's party to have cake and did not want to eat anything so he could have lots of cake. On the TV, the cat and mouse were running around through a bakery. They mouse tricked the cat into falling face first into a big cake. The cat, looking at the screen, licked the frosting from his face. Little Billy really wanted a piece of cake now. It was no longer hunger. He wanted cake. Little Billy went back to the fridge, pulled the door open, and stared at the cake. He wondered if anybody would really mind if he had a little piece. He is just a little boy, they would understand. He was hungry and did not know any better. Little Billy could taste the cake as he looked at it. He could feel it on his hands without even touching it. He reached into the fridge...and grabbed an apple. Little Billy went back to watching his cartoons and ate the apple. Later as his mother was cutting his sister's cake, she cut him a big piece of cake. He looked at her and she smiled at him. He wondered if she had known he was tempted to eat the cake. He forgot all about that as the first piece of icing met his tongue.
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%
It is not about whether or not something is sci-fi.
Avatar, per IMDB, is Action, Adventure, Sci-Fi, and Fantasy.
It is not about people having a preference for Sci-Fi or Fantasy.
It is about Tom, Dick, and Harry feeling like going to see an action movie - not caring if it is sci-fi, fantasy, crime, war, etc. If they see one that is sci-fi, it is not because they wanted to see a sci-fi movie. That they wanted to see an action movie has not changed.
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%
I think the real issue...as you have pointed out correctly is that most Development Houses have in thier heads a basic preconcieved notion of... This is the formula for making a successfull MMO.... they may be willing to do small variences from that formula to differentiate thier Product...but they simply are too afraid or uncreative to try dramatic shifts or rethinking of that formula... so that even when they are dealing with a Sci-Fi setting...they are still using thier same "This is how you make a successfull MMO playbook."
On a side note, if you actualy took WWII online....added a sci-fi skin to things...and a few more tradition MMO elements.... you'd probably have pretty close to what you are talking about....In fact, I think that would be an awesome game....
Unless you have the capacity to read peoples minds when you are sitting next to them in the theatre.... I don't see what your basis is for asserting that you know WHY they chose to see a particular movie that they did.
Ok...
People don't play WoW because it's fantasy, they play it because of the gameplay mechanics.
People don't play EVE becasue it's sci-fi, they play it because of the market system.
People don't play WoW because it's fantasy, they play it because they like death knights.
People don't play EVE because it's sci-fi, they play it because they like blowing things up.
In reality, people do actually do play games purely based on the fact that it's part of their favorite genre. People also go watch movies and read books because it happens to be part of their favorite genre. If you can't understand that, yes, people do indeed seek out sci-fi entertainment by the boatloads, then I don't know what to say. It's right in front of you.
Believe it or not, a lot of people went to see Avatar because it belonged to the sci-fi genre and they enjoy watching things in that genre.
That is precisely what I was trying to explain to colddog04. Thank you for stating it more clearly.
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%
If you look at just Sci-Fi in general you would see that not many people are into it, regardless if it's movie's, games, tv series....ect..ect.
Yeah, that seriously might be it.
In the end, in an overall sense, fantasy is more popular than sci-fi. Gaming companies want to capture as many people as they can and if they offer a two-handed laser-sword wielding class, it brings in more people. Economics are likely what keeps the sci-fi from being "pure".
QFT
It's called a category mistake.
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Played: EQ, SWG, EQII, MxO,DDO CoX, WoW, & LoTRO
Awaiting: GW2, Rift, Earthrise, TOR
Well, I think part of the problem is that a lot of what players think if as "sci-fi" is most likely fantasy.
Star Wars is not sci-fi, it's a fantasy.
Buck Rogers, Flash Gordon, etc. Fantasy
"Sci-Fi" is supposed to deal with man's relationship with technology and how it effects them. Or man's relationship with technology or space and the possibility of what that brings.
I-Robot (movie or book pick your poison) is science fiction, The Last Man on Earth (which others probably know as "I am Legend") is Science Fiction. Foundation Series is Science Fiction. West World and Logan's Run are Science Fiction.
John Carter of Mars is NOT science fiction.
So having said that, the lure of fantasy is strong because it allows for things that could never be as opposed to things that very well could be. Whether it takes place in space or in some sort of quasi-medieval world is something else.
There is a romanticism with fantasy whereas science fiction seems to be a bit colder, a bit more of a dash of possible reality.
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