Just be careful because boredom and instant gratification took us from the old Sandbox days to where we are now with MMORPGs.
You know what Abraxos, I honestly think the problem is that none of us are mentally challenged by these games anymore. Namely because they have removed the challenge for the sake of expediency. But games, by their core design, are meant to be entertaining by mentally stimulating you, making you figure out their mysteries and puzzles. So many MMOs don't have any puzzles anymore. They are just too easy. And so...what game are we really PLAYING? We're just now an army of clickers. Click to queue for this, click to get quest, click to turn in quest, click to kill mobs...what happened to sitting back and going "Hmmmm...I have to figure this out! I don't get this...how do I solve this?" I can't tell you the last time I had to do that in an MMO. It was many many years ago. Mental stimulation in MMOs is being slowly but surely snuffed out. For some reason these developers think we are all a bunch of ADD-riddled drooling idiots who can't figure anything out and want everything now or 5 minutes ago. This is why I think the MMO fanbase has been so hostile lately. They are restless. They are unchallenged.
I might agree with you except for the DDO factor. DDO requires a ton of thought whether in regards to how you build your character or in the numerous puzzles in the game. DDO was also DOA, and stayed that way until it went f2p. I still suspect there are a lot more curious short-termers in DDO than long-term subscribers. Now DDO is not open world, which probably turns off a percentage of the crowd that is looking for a more old-school game, but it is a high quality and challenging title.
I think the majority of the market is casual and isn't looking for serious challenges. And those who want serious challenges can find them in the current games. Are there puzzles in WoW? No. But to do end game heroic 10 mans requires considerable skill and dedication none-the-less and this is content the casual gamer will likely never see. For some reason, even those who like challenges seem to be migrating more toward the "army of clickers" games and away from games with puzzle-type challenges.
The truth is that the MMO fanbase is growing exponentially and it is only a very small percentage that are restless and hostile. That percentage also tends to be completely unsatisfied with anything that any developer attempts to accomplish.
Have to agree. Older games were an older community but even us "old schoolers" get into easy mode. I'm almost 40 and had my parents watching my child last night and was frustrated with the EQ progression server because it took me an hour to find a camp of mobs for my level that weren't already taken. I felt a little cheated of time and thought "Gee, I bet I wouldn't have to look this long at lvl 20 in Rift?" Part of me misses looking for quests, waiting 4 hours for a spawn, getting my butt whipped in a dungeon but the other part is saying "You got work in the morning." ...sigh...
Have to agree. Older games were an older community but even us "old schoolers" get into easy mode. I'm almost 40 and had my parents watching my child last night and was frustrated with the EQ progression server because it took me an hour to find a camp of mobs for my level that weren't already taken. I felt a little cheated of time and thought "Gee, I bet I wouldn't have to look this long at lvl 20 in Rift?" Part of me misses looking for quests, waiting 4 hours for a spawn, getting my butt whipped in a dungeon but the other part is saying "You got work in the morning." ...sigh...
Well that is an issue. Players who want games that hearken back to earlier games (and I'm partially in this camp) have great memories waiting for spawns, getting a group together to do things, taking time to do things, etc.
But then harsh reality sets in and it's sometimes difficult to reconcile those old, fond memories for the reality that running around for an hour looking for something might not be fun.
I think one must just accept that if they are going to be playing these older games then they have to be on board with spending time and not "getting things done".
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Have to agree. Older games were an older community but even us "old schoolers" get into easy mode. I'm almost 40 and had my parents watching my child last night and was frustrated with the EQ progression server because it took me an hour to find a camp of mobs for my level that weren't already taken. I felt a little cheated of time and thought "Gee, I bet I wouldn't have to look this long at lvl 20 in Rift?" Part of me misses looking for quests, waiting 4 hours for a spawn, getting my butt whipped in a dungeon but the other part is saying "You got work in the morning." ...sigh...
Well that is an issue. Players who want games that hearken back to earlier games (and I'm partially in this camp) have great memories waiting for spawns, getting a group together to do things, taking time to do things, etc.
But then harsh reality sets in and it's sometimes difficult to reconcile those old, fond memories for the reality that running around for an hour looking for something might not be fun.
I think one must just accept that if they are going to be playing these older games then they have to be on board with spending time and not "getting things done".
Mmmm...maybe I have a different idea of "challenging".Spending hours on end camping a spawn point or waiting for a world boss is not really what I meant. I consider that more tedium than challenge. And why equate challenging with time-consuming? Maybe I'm in the minority here, but I preferred it when, for example, quests were written in such a way that I was meant to figure out WHERE I needed to go and WHAT I needed to do. I really get little enjoyment out of quests that are boiled down to an objective with a quest helper pointing me in the direction I need to go with a large arrow. I remember a few years back when you had to take a moment to really read the quest to understand what you were being asked and to find where you need to go by the landmarks given to you in the quest text. I don't even see the point in questing anymore since it's basically auto-pilot. Honestly...what is everyone's hurry? What happened to PLAYING THE GAME? Why isn't the journey enjoyed anymore? When did the mindset become to write BS quests, point the players to the location (or take them to it as some games do), and rush everyone to end-game where the content is only reputation grinding and running the same raids and dungeons over and over?
I don't know about you but I miss the discovery and the adventure.
Im a huge rift supporter but the OP is very right.
The quests are freaking LAME - go kill the same guys I just killed, only this time the guys with rifles and not swords.
ya ok...
Thankfully though, I don't quest all that often. I much prefer leveling via RIFTS, Invasions and Warfronts. By far, the most boring of the game are levels 1-13 before you can unlock more souls. After that it gets much more interesting IMO.
Still, certainly can't argue with what's being said here.... Sadly, a lot of MMOs are now like this and I don't see it changing anytime soon. TERA, GW2, SWTOR, etc Im SURE will have a very similar quest line. At least RIFT has the invasions/rifts to balance it out a little - Im a bit worried the other said games above won't have anything apart from questing to break it up. This is why I like sandbox games - too bad most of them are just not good
I wonder if this is the first of many in upcoming months?
Do you think rift will have large dropoffs similar to Aion had several months after release?
I expect a slow bleed, but a person can only speculate. It's not like DCUO where it's nearly impossible for the most casual players to NOT max in their free month.
I felt much like the OP, though it got to me early on, before release. Methinx I was about a 19th level Guardian when all temptation to log in just melted away.
Once the box hits 20 bucks or so, I'll probably give it another try, though. Maybe by then they'll have tweaked the quest flow a bit.
With or without me, the game seems to be experiencing some pretty solid success. But yep, methinx replayability is gonna take a bite out of subs in the future.
I am pretty much with the OP, except I didn't even try other souls.
I just stopped logging in and cancelled my account a week in because jumping from hub to hub and pressing 1-2-3 with like 100 buffs on myself got old real quick. Rifts are boring after about 200 of the exact same thing, and all of the running all over the map to get to them only to find that the major rift boss is dead the moment before I get there was extremely annoying.
Warfronts just seem tacked on to try and appeal to pvp players, but for me fall short since they are so limited in scope.
The main problem with people who play MMORPG's nowadays, and this is why most games always have loads of criticism,is that people come to a new game and race to max level, simply because they play for some years already other games and their main interest is to explore the endgame
The situation is that this is a new game, it's supposed to take some time, to be explored, to be enjoyed and not to be raced.
The worst part is that nothing anyone can say will change this. People start a game, want to level fast and start raiding or pvping etc, and they dont even stop a second to think that they will have alot of time to do that, and the faster they run, the faster they'll get bored
TERA, GW2, SWTOR, etc Im SURE will have a very similar quest line.
GW2 will have other appeals, namely the innovative combat mechanics and the dynamic content. SWTOR will have full voiceover and hopefully stories well written enough to actually be immersive. TERA I don't know, I haven't looked into that one yet.
TERA is going to have really big, bouncy boo.....uh, nevermind, you'll find out.
I can agree with the OP. I knew pretty much how Rift was going to be, so I purposely stayed away from any sort of Beta and started the game totally fresh once it launched.
I don't play that much, am at level 32 but I already feel the quest burnout the OP spoke of. It is almost frustrating to complete 3 quests, only to get 3 more, and 3 more and 3 more, and pretty much your still in the same general area. I actually liked the early days of WOW where the game ran you all over hell and back, forcing you (yes, forcing) you to run from one end of the world to another.
But I am in the minority, most players complained about this inefficiency, so WOW changed, its much more like Rift now, (or Rift is more like it I suppose) encouraging players to stay in a single zone and complete it, then moving to the next zone. Bleah.
Although this is my first run through, I can't even contemplate re-rolling an alt right now, I couldn't face redoing the same set of quests in the same order.
Last night I actually just crafted for over 3 hours because i was actually more challenging and fun to try an figure out how to get my Runecrafting up to expert (when my Runebreaking had hit an impass) than to go out and quest.
The good news is, I like the Rifts. Frequently when I've just gotten one too many sets of new quests I say screw it and go Rift for a while and it makes it more fun. I only wish they were a bit easier to get to. No, not closer, I don't mind the travel (I have the mount), I just hate all the de-horsing as you try to make your way there.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Polished game but somewhere they lost the fun aspect to it. Rift events need to pop up less often but when they do they need to be more exciting than fighting waves of mobs.
Comments
Have to agree. Older games were an older community but even us "old schoolers" get into easy mode. I'm almost 40 and had my parents watching my child last night and was frustrated with the EQ progression server because it took me an hour to find a camp of mobs for my level that weren't already taken. I felt a little cheated of time and thought "Gee, I bet I wouldn't have to look this long at lvl 20 in Rift?" Part of me misses looking for quests, waiting 4 hours for a spawn, getting my butt whipped in a dungeon but the other part is saying "You got work in the morning." ...sigh...
Well that is an issue. Players who want games that hearken back to earlier games (and I'm partially in this camp) have great memories waiting for spawns, getting a group together to do things, taking time to do things, etc.
But then harsh reality sets in and it's sometimes difficult to reconcile those old, fond memories for the reality that running around for an hour looking for something might not be fun.
I think one must just accept that if they are going to be playing these older games then they have to be on board with spending time and not "getting things done".
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Have to agree. Older games were an older community but even us "old schoolers" get into easy mode. I'm almost 40 and had my parents watching my child last night and was frustrated with the EQ progression server because it took me an hour to find a camp of mobs for my level that weren't already taken. I felt a little cheated of time and thought "Gee, I bet I wouldn't have to look this long at lvl 20 in Rift?" Part of me misses looking for quests, waiting 4 hours for a spawn, getting my butt whipped in a dungeon but the other part is saying "You got work in the morning." ...sigh...
Well that is an issue. Players who want games that hearken back to earlier games (and I'm partially in this camp) have great memories waiting for spawns, getting a group together to do things, taking time to do things, etc.
But then harsh reality sets in and it's sometimes difficult to reconcile those old, fond memories for the reality that running around for an hour looking for something might not be fun.
I think one must just accept that if they are going to be playing these older games then they have to be on board with spending time and not "getting things done".
Mmmm...maybe I have a different idea of "challenging".Spending hours on end camping a spawn point or waiting for a world boss is not really what I meant. I consider that more tedium than challenge. And why equate challenging with time-consuming? Maybe I'm in the minority here, but I preferred it when, for example, quests were written in such a way that I was meant to figure out WHERE I needed to go and WHAT I needed to do. I really get little enjoyment out of quests that are boiled down to an objective with a quest helper pointing me in the direction I need to go with a large arrow. I remember a few years back when you had to take a moment to really read the quest to understand what you were being asked and to find where you need to go by the landmarks given to you in the quest text. I don't even see the point in questing anymore since it's basically auto-pilot. Honestly...what is everyone's hurry? What happened to PLAYING THE GAME? Why isn't the journey enjoyed anymore? When did the mindset become to write BS quests, point the players to the location (or take them to it as some games do), and rush everyone to end-game where the content is only reputation grinding and running the same raids and dungeons over and over?I don't know about you but I miss the discovery and the adventure.
Im a huge rift supporter but the OP is very right.
The quests are freaking LAME - go kill the same guys I just killed, only this time the guys with rifles and not swords.
ya ok...
Thankfully though, I don't quest all that often. I much prefer leveling via RIFTS, Invasions and Warfronts. By far, the most boring of the game are levels 1-13 before you can unlock more souls. After that it gets much more interesting IMO.
Still, certainly can't argue with what's being said here.... Sadly, a lot of MMOs are now like this and I don't see it changing anytime soon. TERA, GW2, SWTOR, etc Im SURE will have a very similar quest line. At least RIFT has the invasions/rifts to balance it out a little - Im a bit worried the other said games above won't have anything apart from questing to break it up. This is why I like sandbox games - too bad most of them are just not good
I expect a slow bleed, but a person can only speculate. It's not like DCUO where it's nearly impossible for the most casual players to NOT max in their free month.
I felt much like the OP, though it got to me early on, before release. Methinx I was about a 19th level Guardian when all temptation to log in just melted away.
Once the box hits 20 bucks or so, I'll probably give it another try, though. Maybe by then they'll have tweaked the quest flow a bit.
With or without me, the game seems to be experiencing some pretty solid success. But yep, methinx replayability is gonna take a bite out of subs in the future.
I am pretty much with the OP, except I didn't even try other souls.
I just stopped logging in and cancelled my account a week in because jumping from hub to hub and pressing 1-2-3 with like 100 buffs on myself got old real quick. Rifts are boring after about 200 of the exact same thing, and all of the running all over the map to get to them only to find that the major rift boss is dead the moment before I get there was extremely annoying.
Warfronts just seem tacked on to try and appeal to pvp players, but for me fall short since they are so limited in scope.
"Stop playing it so fast!"
^^ My favorite answer so far.
LOL.
The main problem with people who play MMORPG's nowadays, and this is why most games always have loads of criticism,is that people come to a new game and race to max level, simply because they play for some years already other games and their main interest is to explore the endgame
The situation is that this is a new game, it's supposed to take some time, to be explored, to be enjoyed and not to be raced.
The worst part is that nothing anyone can say will change this. People start a game, want to level fast and start raiding or pvping etc, and they dont even stop a second to think that they will have alot of time to do that, and the faster they run, the faster they'll get bored
TERA is going to have really big, bouncy boo.....uh, nevermind, you'll find out.
All die, so die well.
I can agree with the OP. I knew pretty much how Rift was going to be, so I purposely stayed away from any sort of Beta and started the game totally fresh once it launched.
I don't play that much, am at level 32 but I already feel the quest burnout the OP spoke of. It is almost frustrating to complete 3 quests, only to get 3 more, and 3 more and 3 more, and pretty much your still in the same general area. I actually liked the early days of WOW where the game ran you all over hell and back, forcing you (yes, forcing) you to run from one end of the world to another.
But I am in the minority, most players complained about this inefficiency, so WOW changed, its much more like Rift now, (or Rift is more like it I suppose) encouraging players to stay in a single zone and complete it, then moving to the next zone. Bleah.
Although this is my first run through, I can't even contemplate re-rolling an alt right now, I couldn't face redoing the same set of quests in the same order.
Last night I actually just crafted for over 3 hours because i was actually more challenging and fun to try an figure out how to get my Runecrafting up to expert (when my Runebreaking had hit an impass) than to go out and quest.
The good news is, I like the Rifts. Frequently when I've just gotten one too many sets of new quests I say screw it and go Rift for a while and it makes it more fun. I only wish they were a bit easier to get to. No, not closer, I don't mind the travel (I have the mount), I just hate all the de-horsing as you try to make your way there.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Polished game but somewhere they lost the fun aspect to it. Rift events need to pop up less often but when they do they need to be more exciting than fighting waves of mobs.