it's people like you that will make sure no good mmo's are made you will keep swallowing down the crap thats pushed out by linear themepark mmo's
hope you enjoy chasing your carrot :P
Judging by your sig there are games that you look forward to, four of them actually. Why then does it bug you this one isn't made to your preferences? Does every game have to be made just for Neverlift?
Don't want to see mmo's influenced the wrong way, WoW has already done enough damage.
ToR's coming off as a KOTOR 3 multiplayer crpg is not the direction mmo's should be heading... and I think it's time mmo's offered better end-game content and more dynamic player driven content.
Played: MCO - EQ/EQ2 - WoW - VG - WAR - AoC - LoTRO - DDO - GW/GW2 - Eve - Rift - FE - TSW - TSO - WS - ESO - AA - BD Playing: Sims 3 & 4, Diablo3 and PoE Waiting on: Lost Ark Who's going to make a Cyberpunk MMO?
I could go on, but it's obivious games are easier and made for younger players this day and age.
Everything is given to the player and made easy to win.
I always find this statement rather hilarious, kids are actually more likely to enjoy a tough game, one that takes a bit of skill to get through. It's the casual market that's bringing more streamlining to the gaming industry. The casual market is in no way made up of kids, kids are a lot more likely to play for hundreds of hours in one game. For one kids learn things at a lot faster pace than adults do, they tend to have more hand eye cordination, and are more likely to repeat things they've died on 100 times over, just to get to the end.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I could go on, but it's obivious games are easier and made for younger players this day and age.
Everything is given to the player and made easy to win.
I always find this statement rather hilarious, kids are actually more likely to enjoy a tough game, one that takes a bit of skill to get through. It's the casual market that's bringing more streamlining to the gaming industry. The casual market is in no way made up of kids, kids are a lot more likely to play for hundreds of hours in one game. For one kids learn things at a lot faster pace than adults do, they tend to have more hand eye cordination, and are more likely to repeat things they've died on 100 times over, just to get to the end.
Maybe back in the 90's or later.... kids today don't know what a hard game is.
I guess I could go as high 2003, but after that games just got to dumb down and easy.
Played: MCO - EQ/EQ2 - WoW - VG - WAR - AoC - LoTRO - DDO - GW/GW2 - Eve - Rift - FE - TSW - TSO - WS - ESO - AA - BD Playing: Sims 3 & 4, Diablo3 and PoE Waiting on: Lost Ark Who's going to make a Cyberpunk MMO?
Don't want to see mmo's influenced the wrong way, WoW has already done enough damage.
ToR's coming off as a KOTOR 3 multiplayer crpg is not the direction mmo's should be heading... and I think it's time mmo's offered better end-game content and more dynamic player driven content.
I disagree, I don't think there's only room for one direction in MMO gaming. There's room for traditional game-play as well as innovative, there's room for story guided and the sandbox, there's room for turn-based and realtime combat. The more options the better IMO, TSW is different than what TOR is aiming for, TOR is different than what GW2 is aiming for, GW2 is different than what Archeage is aiming for, this is a good thing. WOD may be a lot different than what any of these are aiming for.
We also have the Zombie Labs MMO, striving to be it's own thing as well as dust 514. Planetside 2, is also going in it's own direction. If anything the upcoming games are all trying to be a bit more unique than games of the past, even TOR with it's focus being on Story and VO dialogue presentation.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
it's people like you that will make sure no good mmo's are made you will keep swallowing down the crap thats pushed out by linear themepark mmo's
hope you enjoy chasing your carrot :P
Judging by your sig there are games that you look forward to, four of them actually. Why then does it bug you this one isn't made to your preferences? Does every game have to be made just for Neverlift?
Don't want to see mmo's influenced the wrong way, WoW has already done enough damage.
ToR's coming off as a KOTOR 3 multiplayer crpg is not the direction mmo's should be heading... and I think it's time mmo's offered better end-game content and more dynamic player driven content.
Oh, well I'll be goddamned. I never knew that YOU were the end all be all power who decided what direction MMOs should be headed. Forgive them your Majesty they knew not what they did. They only thought that since they were the people who were actully putting in the money and effort creating these games that THEY were the ones who got to make the decisions. I'm sure once we explain their foolishness they will grovel before you and beg your forgiveness for their delusions.
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
But you didn't answer me, Why do you continue to go onto the TOR forums if you have no interest in the game?
To voice my opinion and displeasure with the direction they took with SW:ToR.
After all the time and money that Bioware have spent on it, they're not going to change their mind. They're playing to their strengths as a developer, and TOR reflects that in spades.
Maybe back in the 90's or later.... kids today don't know what a hard game is.
I guess I could go as high 2003, but after that games just got to dumb down and easy.
After 2004 is when the casual wave started hitting the industry hard, which is why I feel it's that market that's bringing this wave of streamlining everything into a guided experience. Kids grow up with games, they start young and master many different play styles, adults on the other hand (that didn't start playing young) tend to have a much harder time even controlling their character running around, let alone in combat situations or platforming.
I used to watch my dad try and play Mario on NES when I was a kid, it was rather hilarious watching him fall in fire pits over and over again. My firends and I could beat the whole of those games in a few sit downs, I have a hard time thinking it's any different today.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Maybe back in the 90's or later.... kids today don't know what a hard game is.
So now you're pulling out the bitter old cynical gamer card? What's next? Pulling out a cane and yelling at the clouds for not being as white and fluffy as you remember? Reminiscing about the thirty mile hike uphill both ways in the snow that you took to school every day?
Back in the 80s, arcade games were made intentionally hard and frustrating to keep people feeding quarters in the machines. The original slot machines were rigged to make it damn near impossible to win for the same reason. At what point do we go back and say that here is where games were actually hard instead of deliberately designed to keep people playing it longer?
For those that are curious, it does seem like the game harder then most MMOs at least if the previewers of the game are to be beliefved and...certain areas.
So maybe it isn't going to be all suger plums and dancing through the feilds and you hack down zombies with a lawn mower... uh where was i going with this?
Right so if the game is harder and requires you to think would that improve the outlook on the game for some people or is end-game really that important to some where if you even have one feature of the end-game similar to another it totally kills your interest?
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
Right so if the game is harder and requires you to think would that improve the outlook on the game for some people or is end-game really that important to some where if you even have one feature of the end-game similar to another it totally kills your interest?
End-game (not a fan of the word) so I'll use game-play after you reach cap, is an important factor in MMO's, you're going to reach that point some time. I'm not a big fan of raiding, or gear grinding. If that's all that is focused on (not saying it will be), I won't be sticking around. Sure the journey is often ignored by many who play MMO's as well as comment on them. That's because an MMO is something people look to play for months to years rather than a few weeks. What is in store at "endgame" is an important part in that.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
1) Gamers (for some reason) feel the overwhelming urge to tell each other what to play. And believe it or not, this kind of viral marketing actually works.
2) Shills. Paid and unpaid. See above.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
1) Gamers (for some reason) feel the overwhelming urge to tell each other what to play. And believe it or not, this kind of viral marketing actually works.
2) Shills. Paid and unpaid. See above.
This place would be so much better if people stopped trying to play those two cards. There would be less traffic on the site but so much less drama. This is why I don't listen to the forum dwellers.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
Right so if the game is harder and requires you to think would that improve the outlook on the game for some people or is end-game really that important to some where if you even have one feature of the end-game similar to another it totally kills your interest?
End-game (not a fan of the word) so I'll use game-play after you reach cap, is an important factor in MMO's, you're going to reach that point some time. I'm not a big fan of raiding, or gear grinding. If that's all that is focused on (not saying it will be), I won't be sticking around. Sure the journey is often ignored by many who play MMO's as well as comment on them. That's because an MMO is something people look to play for months to years rather than a few weeks. What is in store at "endgame" is an important part in that.
Yeah we've only begun to hear about what end-game has to offer.
We do know there are several things you can do at end-game to mix it up, anywhere from datacron searching, to codex completing to flashpoints, to PvP to raiding to getting social clothing, to whatever else there is suppose to be at end-game.
I gather it's just my personal belief theres suppose to be enough to do until more content comes out, it's the twiddle your thumbs moment which is why i have no desire to try and reach it as fast as possible in this game.
I'm hoping by the time i get to where i'm just raiding because everything else is done that more content will be coming out soon.
I just feel end-game while reachable shouldn't be a primary focus. But thats just me i suppose.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
End-game (not a fan of the word) so I'll use game-play after you reach cap, is an important factor in MMO's, you're going to reach that point some time. I'm not a big fan of raiding, or gear grinding. If that's all that is focused on (not saying it will be), I won't be sticking around. Sure the journey is often ignored by many who play MMO's as well as comment on them. That's because an MMO is something people look to play for months to years rather than a few weeks. What is in store at "endgame" is an important part in that.
Yeah we've only begun to hear about what end-game has to offer.
We do know there are several things you can do at end-game to mix it up, anywhere from datacron searching, to codex completing to flashpoints, to PvP to raiding to getting social clothing, to whatever else there is suppose to be at end-game.
I gather it's just my personal belief theres suppose to be enough to do until more content comes out, it's the twiddle your thumbs moment which is why i have no desire to try and reach it as fast as possible in this game.
I'm hoping by the time i get to where i'm just raiding because everything else is done that more content will be coming out soon.
I just feel end-game while reachable shouldn't be a primary focus. But thats just me i suppose.
I for one plan to play more than one of the stories if not all at some point, so that should be enough to keep myself busy for sometime. I also really enjoy PVP, so if that is fun, that will be something else to hold me for a period of time. I just would hate to get to the end, and start over at that point, rather than have some of those stories waiting for me down the road. I'd like to see it come to light that there's plenty to do on one character at cap, more end-game questing, different styles of PVP, exploration incentives like you pointed out, decent community building etc..
That way, down the road I still have 7 stories to play through when I bore of the aspects at cap. If done right that could be months if not years of content to keep me happy.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
after coming to this Website and other similar ones for years, it is quite clear that many of the people here have to complain about games that do not fit their criteria of what they think every game should be like.
especially when there is a lot of hype and popularity around a certain game. elitists never like what popular, its not cool enough to like what everyone else likes lol
that is why there is so much hatred, not just for this game, but any popular game. name the most popular mmo's and they all have a lot of hate mongers like this one does.
not saying people don't or should not have legitimate concerns for this game, i have a few myself. but to the people who clearly have no interests in playing this game yet love to make posts about it spreading their hate for it......every last one of you have a hidden agenda.
either you want to discourage people from playing and enjoying a game that you don't like or you are worried that this game will take players away from the game you like.
or perhaps you just like to troll and flame, which is another reason why the popular games have so much hate here in the forums, in my opinion.
either way, its the reason why i don't enjoy posting on gaming forums as much anymore, its all pretty much just my game vs your game flame wars and its freaking stupid and immature as hell to be brutally honest.
after coming to this Website and other similar ones for years, it is quite clear that many of the people here have to complain about games that do not fit their criteria of what they think every game should be like.
especially when there is a lot of hype and popularity around a certain game. elitists never like what popular, its not cool enough to like what everyone else likes lol
that is why there is so much hatred, not just for this game, but any popular game. name the most popular mmo's and they all have a lot of hate mongers like this one does.
not saying people don't or should not have legitimate concerns for this game, i have a few myself. but to the people who clearly have no interests in playing this game yet love to make posts about it spreading their hate for it......every last one of you have a hidden agenda.
either you want to discourage people from playing and enjoying a game that you don't like or you are worried that this game will take players away from the game you like.
or perhaps you just like to troll and flame, which is another reason why the popular games have so much hate here in the forums, in my opinion.
either way, its the reason why i don't enjoy posting on gaming forums as much anymore, its all pretty much just my game vs your game flame wars and its freaking stupid and immature as hell to be brutally honest.
Maybe some people just like to discuss and debate the topic? Not everyone who has a dissenting view on a game is trying to troll or flame. Nor are they necessarily trying to bash the game for not meeting their personal standards or trying to turn people away from it. Some of them may just be critically analyzing a game, and it just so happens that they've picked out some issues that they view to be potential issues.
These are forums for MMOs after all. Yet despite the fact that these forums are meant for discussion and analysis of MMOs, certain individuals seem to think that only positive posts are legitmate, and everything that takes a negative view is nothing but trolling.
Besides, per the OP's question I could contrarily ask, why all the love for a game that isn't released yet?
All of the 'unjustified hating' isn't anymore ridiculous than all of the fawning over the game that some people are doing.
Maybe some people just like to discuss and debate the topic? Not everyone who has a dissenting view on a game is trying to troll or flame. Nor are they necessarily trying to bash the game for not meeting their personal standards or trying to turn people away from it. Some of them may just be critically analyzing a game, and it just so happens that they've picked out some issues that they view to be potential issues.
That's one of my largest issues with this forum, no matter what side of the matter you stand on (like that even really matters anyways) you're always a hater or a fanboy. Why can't we just discuss what we like or don't like about a game without brining our emotions into question? I'll be the first to admit, I'm a critical, cynical asshole when it comes to MMO's, but the truth is that I'm going to play a majority of them and enjoy myself. If they aren't what I want or what I expected, and I see people discussing this on the internet, I like to hop in and give my opinion. What would be great is if I could do this without someone thinking that I have some seething abhorrence for a developer, or their product, when I'm really just trying to share or receive ideas with other gamers.
There's a good reason why the mods here are ban happy for people who use the word "troll" in a post, and that's because the word is so subjective that it can be applied to any negativity what-so-ever. As somone with experience regarding this, I can say that I can still love a game, or enjoy it, while sharing what I didn't with others. The same goes for the games I dislike: I can think they're terrible all day, but nothing is ever (at least not often) completely rotten.
"This is life! We suffer and slave and expire. That's it!" -Bernard Black (Dylan Moran)
Maybe some people just like to discuss and debate the topic? Not everyone who has a dissenting view on a game is trying to troll or flame. Nor are they necessarily trying to bash the game for not meeting their personal standards or trying to turn people away from it. Some of them may just be critically analyzing a game, and it just so happens that they've picked out some issues that they view to be potential issues.
That's one of my largest issues with this forum, no matter what side of the matter you stand on (like that even really matters anyways) you're always a hater or a fanboy. Why can't we just discuss what we like or don't like about a game without brining our emotions into question? I'll be the first to admit, I'm a critical, cynical asshole when it comes to MMO's, but the truth is that I'm going to play a majority of them and enjoy myself. If they aren't what I want or what I expected, and I see people discussing this on the internet, I like to hop in and give my opinion. What would be great is if I could do this without someone thinking that I have some seething abhorrence for a developer, or their product, when I'm really just trying to share or receive ideas with other gamers.
At the end of the day, when we are talking about games and it comes down to a question of do you like X (game, feature, lack of feature, story, quest, gear) all we can offer is an opinion, our opinion. This is particularly true of games in development.
Most people like to explain the way they arrived at their opinion, but on forums like these someone is always going to take issue with that opinion or the way it was reasoned. This is fine really as long as the discussion is civil, for some reason some people don't like to be disagreed with though on either side of the fence.
Right so if the game is harder and requires you to think would that improve the outlook on the game for some people or is end-game really that important to some where if you even have one feature of the end-game similar to another it totally kills your interest?
End-game (not a fan of the word) so I'll use game-play after you reach cap, is an important factor in MMO's, you're going to reach that point some time. I'm not a big fan of raiding, or gear grinding. If that's all that is focused on (not saying it will be), I won't be sticking around. Sure the journey is often ignored by many who play MMO's as well as comment on them. That's because an MMO is something people look to play for months to years rather than a few weeks. What is in store at "endgame" is an important part in that.
Yeah we've only begun to hear about what end-game has to offer.
We do know there are several things you can do at end-game to mix it up, anywhere from datacron searching, to codex completing to flashpoints, to PvP to raiding to getting social clothing, to whatever else there is suppose to be at end-game.
I gather it's just my personal belief theres suppose to be enough to do until more content comes out, it's the twiddle your thumbs moment which is why i have no desire to try and reach it as fast as possible in this game.
I'm hoping by the time i get to where i'm just raiding because everything else is done that more content will be coming out soon.
I just feel end-game while reachable shouldn't be a primary focus. But thats just me i suppose.
I agree 100% with you. why are so many people woried about end game. this is a story driven mmo so it should be about the journey and not neccesarily about the destination or maybe i am just to damned nerdy and love the role play aspect of an rpg (ROLE PLAYING GAME). for those of you that do not seem to get the gist of what an rpg is about.
Games I will be playing are: TES V, SWTOR, ME 3, TSW
Right so if the game is harder and requires you to think would that improve the outlook on the game for some people or is end-game really that important to some where if you even have one feature of the end-game similar to another it totally kills your interest?
End-game (not a fan of the word) so I'll use game-play after you reach cap, is an important factor in MMO's, you're going to reach that point some time. I'm not a big fan of raiding, or gear grinding. If that's all that is focused on (not saying it will be), I won't be sticking around. Sure the journey is often ignored by many who play MMO's as well as comment on them. That's because an MMO is something people look to play for months to years rather than a few weeks. What is in store at "endgame" is an important part in that.
Yeah we've only begun to hear about what end-game has to offer.
We do know there are several things you can do at end-game to mix it up, anywhere from datacron searching, to codex completing to flashpoints, to PvP to raiding to getting social clothing, to whatever else there is suppose to be at end-game.
I gather it's just my personal belief theres suppose to be enough to do until more content comes out, it's the twiddle your thumbs moment which is why i have no desire to try and reach it as fast as possible in this game.
I'm hoping by the time i get to where i'm just raiding because everything else is done that more content will be coming out soon.
I just feel end-game while reachable shouldn't be a primary focus. But thats just me i suppose.
I agree 100% with you. why are so many people woried about end game. this is a story driven mmo so it should be about the journey and not neccesarily about the destination or maybe i am just to damned nerdy and love the role play aspect of an rpg (ROLE PLAYING GAME). for those of you that do not seem to get the gist of what an rpg is about.
My take on why so many people are worried about end-game, is because that's all that's left after the content, in this case the story, runs out. Honestly I think it's a very legitimate concern, particularly so for a game whose main streak of originality compared to it's counterparts is the fact that it has more of a story focus. What you may see as people being irrational, I see as people being concerned about wheter or not they'll still be enjoying the game a few months after release once they've hit the end of the road of the story... and it will happen.
Right so if the game is harder and requires you to think would that improve the outlook on the game for some people or is end-game really that important to some where if you even have one feature of the end-game similar to another it totally kills your interest?
End-game (not a fan of the word) so I'll use game-play after you reach cap, is an important factor in MMO's, you're going to reach that point some time. I'm not a big fan of raiding, or gear grinding. If that's all that is focused on (not saying it will be), I won't be sticking around. Sure the journey is often ignored by many who play MMO's as well as comment on them. That's because an MMO is something people look to play for months to years rather than a few weeks. What is in store at "endgame" is an important part in that.
Yeah we've only begun to hear about what end-game has to offer.
We do know there are several things you can do at end-game to mix it up, anywhere from datacron searching, to codex completing to flashpoints, to PvP to raiding to getting social clothing, to whatever else there is suppose to be at end-game.
I gather it's just my personal belief theres suppose to be enough to do until more content comes out, it's the twiddle your thumbs moment which is why i have no desire to try and reach it as fast as possible in this game.
I'm hoping by the time i get to where i'm just raiding because everything else is done that more content will be coming out soon.
I just feel end-game while reachable shouldn't be a primary focus. But thats just me i suppose.
I agree 100% with you. why are so many people woried about end game. this is a story driven mmo so it should be about the journey and not neccesarily about the destination or maybe i am just to damned nerdy and love the role play aspect of an rpg (ROLE PLAYING GAME). for those of you that do not seem to get the gist of what an rpg is about.
My take on why so many people are worried about end-game, is because that's all that's left after the content, in this case the story, runs out. Honestly I think it's a very legitimate concern, particularly so for a game whose main streak of originality compared to it's counterparts is the fact that it has more of a story focus. What you may see as people being irrational, I see as people being concerned about wheter or not they'll still be enjoying the game a few months after release once they've hit the end of the road of the story... and it will happen.
yes i know it will end. just like an open ended single player rpg there are usually still quest you can do and things to do. but i have played a ton of mmos and have played end game in a few. there boring while usually lvling is easier in a single player rpg the game still comes to a point where you get bored after you beat the game. I understand why people are concerned about endgame but instead of focusing on the problem they should be giving devs idea on a solution. whining about it wont change it. but thinking of a solution might
Games I will be playing are: TES V, SWTOR, ME 3, TSW
Really, what is all the fuss about? Most Bioware games I've heard have gained a lot of praise like the Mass Effect series but then again there are few people who fear it could get trammbled on by anti-social people who've got burn't out on WoW. Have I just missed something that sparked a riot?
Bioware games tend to get "praised" in spite of the fact they haven't innovated anything. In fact, the only difference between Bioware's three franchises is their skins.
"You're the last <insert awesome organization>, and in a completely unprecedented turn for the worst your fellow colleagues of <awesome organization> are wiped out. You're solely responsible for the continuation of <awesome organization>, and to accomplish your objectives you pick up five to ten friends to assist you. Despite this wide variety of assistance, you can only ever have three of them with you at any given time. One of those friends is a <animal/robot/otherwise nonsentient 'thing'>."
I'm sorry, but although I have enjoyed many of the Bioware games, in the end they're all always exactly the same (except Jade Empire). Furthermore, what I find really interesting is the apparent lack of this argument appearing at all. MMO Players tend to lambast and chide Production groups for making games that are similar in any way... even on Rift the argument I hear against WoW is, "I have to log in and do the same thing every day!". Amazing how this argument is never given any objectivity--It's used merely as a shield against the thing people want to hate.
Right so if the game is harder and requires you to think would that improve the outlook on the game for some people or is end-game really that important to some where if you even have one feature of the end-game similar to another it totally kills your interest?
End-game (not a fan of the word) so I'll use game-play after you reach cap, is an important factor in MMO's, you're going to reach that point some time. I'm not a big fan of raiding, or gear grinding. If that's all that is focused on (not saying it will be), I won't be sticking around. Sure the journey is often ignored by many who play MMO's as well as comment on them. That's because an MMO is something people look to play for months to years rather than a few weeks. What is in store at "endgame" is an important part in that.
Yeah we've only begun to hear about what end-game has to offer.
We do know there are several things you can do at end-game to mix it up, anywhere from datacron searching, to codex completing to flashpoints, to PvP to raiding to getting social clothing, to whatever else there is suppose to be at end-game.
I gather it's just my personal belief theres suppose to be enough to do until more content comes out, it's the twiddle your thumbs moment which is why i have no desire to try and reach it as fast as possible in this game.
I'm hoping by the time i get to where i'm just raiding because everything else is done that more content will be coming out soon.
I just feel end-game while reachable shouldn't be a primary focus. But thats just me i suppose.
I agree 100% with you. why are so many people woried about end game. this is a story driven mmo so it should be about the journey and not neccesarily about the destination or maybe i am just to damned nerdy and love the role play aspect of an rpg (ROLE PLAYING GAME). for those of you that do not seem to get the gist of what an rpg is about.
My take on why so many people are worried about end-game, is because that's all that's left after the content, in this case the story, runs out. Honestly I think it's a very legitimate concern, particularly so for a game whose main streak of originality compared to it's counterparts is the fact that it has more of a story focus. What you may see as people being irrational, I see as people being concerned about wheter or not they'll still be enjoying the game a few months after release once they've hit the end of the road of the story... and it will happen.
Agreed. Eventually, you're going to get to a point where you reach "endgame" in a mmo, and that has been a large point of contention with many mmos.
Back to the main topic. The supposed hatred stems from what we've been shown gameplay wise. Aside from the storyline focus, there doesn't seem to be enough that is different than the standard quest formula, and the combat looks fairly straightforward as well. With the exception of the setting, there really isn't anything to entice me to play SWTOR. Bioware had an opportunity to be very different with their mmo, and for what has been shown, they are playing it safe, which has only ended in failure for the other mmos who used the same formula.
Back to the main topic. The supposed hatred stems from what we've been shown gameplay wise. Aside from the storyline focus, there doesn't seem to be enough that is different than the standard quest formula, and the combat looks fairly straightforward as well. With the exception of the setting, there really isn't anything to entice me to play SWTOR. Bioware had an opportunity to be very different with their mmo, and for what has been shown, they are playing it safe, which has only ended in failure for the other mmos who used the same formula.
I like this guy.
TOR just isn't different enough to really feel Star Wars-y. We saw how well "Tiered Classes" worked in EQ2. Get to level 20, and chose between two other classes. Sony eventually cut that out altogether because it was an awful design. As much as Bioware wants people to play it like a single-player game, "a lot" won't. When you do things like make equipment unlockable only when you have enough Darkside points, of course people are going to schew their decisions in favor of the coolest "equipment". Also--In what universe does it make sense that I can't wear a sweater because I'm not Evil enough?
Maybe it is just me but people seem to be coming up with issue they either want to exist and fear they will exist without any evidence to support it.
some of you people are taking a swings at phantoms. because you fear what is not. rationalizing it in your mind so it becomes real to you while no one else see what you see. but becuase you keep whining about it people start picking up that fear and thust becomes mob rule. therefore you think it is justified to whine about the issue because others do.
well if the mob decided to rape someone does that make it right no use your head people. instead of thinking of the problem think of a solution.
besides Bioware has stated they plan on releasing information on some of the endgame content at comiccon and some information of things they plan that have never been done in endgame. so hold your blasters and wait to see what they have come up with before you start inventing problems and issues that do not yet exist.
Games I will be playing are: TES V, SWTOR, ME 3, TSW
Comments
Don't want to see mmo's influenced the wrong way, WoW has already done enough damage.
ToR's coming off as a KOTOR 3 multiplayer crpg is not the direction mmo's should be heading... and I think it's time mmo's offered better end-game content and more dynamic player driven content.
Played: MCO - EQ/EQ2 - WoW - VG - WAR - AoC - LoTRO - DDO - GW/GW2 - Eve - Rift - FE - TSW - TSO - WS - ESO - AA - BD
Playing: Sims 3 & 4, Diablo3 and PoE
Waiting on: Lost Ark
Who's going to make a Cyberpunk MMO?
I always find this statement rather hilarious, kids are actually more likely to enjoy a tough game, one that takes a bit of skill to get through. It's the casual market that's bringing more streamlining to the gaming industry. The casual market is in no way made up of kids, kids are a lot more likely to play for hundreds of hours in one game. For one kids learn things at a lot faster pace than adults do, they tend to have more hand eye cordination, and are more likely to repeat things they've died on 100 times over, just to get to the end.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Maybe back in the 90's or later.... kids today don't know what a hard game is.
I guess I could go as high 2003, but after that games just got to dumb down and easy.
Played: MCO - EQ/EQ2 - WoW - VG - WAR - AoC - LoTRO - DDO - GW/GW2 - Eve - Rift - FE - TSW - TSO - WS - ESO - AA - BD
Playing: Sims 3 & 4, Diablo3 and PoE
Waiting on: Lost Ark
Who's going to make a Cyberpunk MMO?
I disagree, I don't think there's only room for one direction in MMO gaming. There's room for traditional game-play as well as innovative, there's room for story guided and the sandbox, there's room for turn-based and realtime combat. The more options the better IMO, TSW is different than what TOR is aiming for, TOR is different than what GW2 is aiming for, GW2 is different than what Archeage is aiming for, this is a good thing. WOD may be a lot different than what any of these are aiming for.
We also have the Zombie Labs MMO, striving to be it's own thing as well as dust 514. Planetside 2, is also going in it's own direction. If anything the upcoming games are all trying to be a bit more unique than games of the past, even TOR with it's focus being on Story and VO dialogue presentation.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Oh, well I'll be goddamned. I never knew that YOU were the end all be all power who decided what direction MMOs should be headed. Forgive them your Majesty they knew not what they did. They only thought that since they were the people who were actully putting in the money and effort creating these games that THEY were the ones who got to make the decisions. I'm sure once we explain their foolishness they will grovel before you and beg your forgiveness for their delusions.
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
After all the time and money that Bioware have spent on it, they're not going to change their mind. They're playing to their strengths as a developer, and TOR reflects that in spades.
After 2004 is when the casual wave started hitting the industry hard, which is why I feel it's that market that's bringing this wave of streamlining everything into a guided experience. Kids grow up with games, they start young and master many different play styles, adults on the other hand (that didn't start playing young) tend to have a much harder time even controlling their character running around, let alone in combat situations or platforming.
I used to watch my dad try and play Mario on NES when I was a kid, it was rather hilarious watching him fall in fire pits over and over again. My firends and I could beat the whole of those games in a few sit downs, I have a hard time thinking it's any different today.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
So now you're pulling out the bitter old cynical gamer card? What's next? Pulling out a cane and yelling at the clouds for not being as white and fluffy as you remember? Reminiscing about the thirty mile hike uphill both ways in the snow that you took to school every day?
Back in the 80s, arcade games were made intentionally hard and frustrating to keep people feeding quarters in the machines. The original slot machines were rigged to make it damn near impossible to win for the same reason. At what point do we go back and say that here is where games were actually hard instead of deliberately designed to keep people playing it longer?
For those that are curious, it does seem like the game harder then most MMOs at least if the previewers of the game are to be beliefved and...certain areas.
So maybe it isn't going to be all suger plums and dancing through the feilds and you hack down zombies with a lawn mower... uh where was i going with this?
Right so if the game is harder and requires you to think would that improve the outlook on the game for some people or is end-game really that important to some where if you even have one feature of the end-game similar to another it totally kills your interest?
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
End-game (not a fan of the word) so I'll use game-play after you reach cap, is an important factor in MMO's, you're going to reach that point some time. I'm not a big fan of raiding, or gear grinding. If that's all that is focused on (not saying it will be), I won't be sticking around. Sure the journey is often ignored by many who play MMO's as well as comment on them. That's because an MMO is something people look to play for months to years rather than a few weeks. What is in store at "endgame" is an important part in that.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Two reasons:
1) Gamers (for some reason) feel the overwhelming urge to tell each other what to play. And believe it or not, this kind of viral marketing actually works.
2) Shills. Paid and unpaid. See above.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
This place would be so much better if people stopped trying to play those two cards. There would be less traffic on the site but so much less drama. This is why I don't listen to the forum dwellers.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
Yeah we've only begun to hear about what end-game has to offer.
We do know there are several things you can do at end-game to mix it up, anywhere from datacron searching, to codex completing to flashpoints, to PvP to raiding to getting social clothing, to whatever else there is suppose to be at end-game.
I gather it's just my personal belief theres suppose to be enough to do until more content comes out, it's the twiddle your thumbs moment which is why i have no desire to try and reach it as fast as possible in this game.
I'm hoping by the time i get to where i'm just raiding because everything else is done that more content will be coming out soon.
I just feel end-game while reachable shouldn't be a primary focus. But thats just me i suppose.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
I for one plan to play more than one of the stories if not all at some point, so that should be enough to keep myself busy for sometime. I also really enjoy PVP, so if that is fun, that will be something else to hold me for a period of time. I just would hate to get to the end, and start over at that point, rather than have some of those stories waiting for me down the road. I'd like to see it come to light that there's plenty to do on one character at cap, more end-game questing, different styles of PVP, exploration incentives like you pointed out, decent community building etc..
That way, down the road I still have 7 stories to play through when I bore of the aspects at cap. If done right that could be months if not years of content to keep me happy.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
after coming to this Website and other similar ones for years, it is quite clear that many of the people here have to complain about games that do not fit their criteria of what they think every game should be like.
especially when there is a lot of hype and popularity around a certain game. elitists never like what popular, its not cool enough to like what everyone else likes lol
that is why there is so much hatred, not just for this game, but any popular game. name the most popular mmo's and they all have a lot of hate mongers like this one does.
not saying people don't or should not have legitimate concerns for this game, i have a few myself. but to the people who clearly have no interests in playing this game yet love to make posts about it spreading their hate for it......every last one of you have a hidden agenda.
either you want to discourage people from playing and enjoying a game that you don't like or you are worried that this game will take players away from the game you like.
or perhaps you just like to troll and flame, which is another reason why the popular games have so much hate here in the forums, in my opinion.
either way, its the reason why i don't enjoy posting on gaming forums as much anymore, its all pretty much just my game vs your game flame wars and its freaking stupid and immature as hell to be brutally honest.
Maybe some people just like to discuss and debate the topic? Not everyone who has a dissenting view on a game is trying to troll or flame. Nor are they necessarily trying to bash the game for not meeting their personal standards or trying to turn people away from it. Some of them may just be critically analyzing a game, and it just so happens that they've picked out some issues that they view to be potential issues.
These are forums for MMOs after all. Yet despite the fact that these forums are meant for discussion and analysis of MMOs, certain individuals seem to think that only positive posts are legitmate, and everything that takes a negative view is nothing but trolling.
Besides, per the OP's question I could contrarily ask, why all the love for a game that isn't released yet?
All of the 'unjustified hating' isn't anymore ridiculous than all of the fawning over the game that some people are doing.
That's one of my largest issues with this forum, no matter what side of the matter you stand on (like that even really matters anyways) you're always a hater or a fanboy. Why can't we just discuss what we like or don't like about a game without brining our emotions into question? I'll be the first to admit, I'm a critical, cynical asshole when it comes to MMO's, but the truth is that I'm going to play a majority of them and enjoy myself. If they aren't what I want or what I expected, and I see people discussing this on the internet, I like to hop in and give my opinion. What would be great is if I could do this without someone thinking that I have some seething abhorrence for a developer, or their product, when I'm really just trying to share or receive ideas with other gamers.
There's a good reason why the mods here are ban happy for people who use the word "troll" in a post, and that's because the word is so subjective that it can be applied to any negativity what-so-ever. As somone with experience regarding this, I can say that I can still love a game, or enjoy it, while sharing what I didn't with others. The same goes for the games I dislike: I can think they're terrible all day, but nothing is ever (at least not often) completely rotten.
"This is life! We suffer and slave and expire. That's it!" -Bernard Black (Dylan Moran)
At the end of the day, when we are talking about games and it comes down to a question of do you like X (game, feature, lack of feature, story, quest, gear) all we can offer is an opinion, our opinion. This is particularly true of games in development.
Most people like to explain the way they arrived at their opinion, but on forums like these someone is always going to take issue with that opinion or the way it was reasoned. This is fine really as long as the discussion is civil, for some reason some people don't like to be disagreed with though on either side of the fence.
I agree 100% with you. why are so many people woried about end game. this is a story driven mmo so it should be about the journey and not neccesarily about the destination or maybe i am just to damned nerdy and love the role play aspect of an rpg (ROLE PLAYING GAME). for those of you that do not seem to get the gist of what an rpg is about.
Games I will be playing are: TES V, SWTOR, ME 3, TSW
My take on why so many people are worried about end-game, is because that's all that's left after the content, in this case the story, runs out. Honestly I think it's a very legitimate concern, particularly so for a game whose main streak of originality compared to it's counterparts is the fact that it has more of a story focus. What you may see as people being irrational, I see as people being concerned about wheter or not they'll still be enjoying the game a few months after release once they've hit the end of the road of the story... and it will happen.
yes i know it will end. just like an open ended single player rpg there are usually still quest you can do and things to do. but i have played a ton of mmos and have played end game in a few. there boring while usually lvling is easier in a single player rpg the game still comes to a point where you get bored after you beat the game. I understand why people are concerned about endgame but instead of focusing on the problem they should be giving devs idea on a solution. whining about it wont change it. but thinking of a solution might
Games I will be playing are: TES V, SWTOR, ME 3, TSW
Bioware games tend to get "praised" in spite of the fact they haven't innovated anything. In fact, the only difference between Bioware's three franchises is their skins.
"You're the last <insert awesome organization>, and in a completely unprecedented turn for the worst your fellow colleagues of <awesome organization> are wiped out. You're solely responsible for the continuation of <awesome organization>, and to accomplish your objectives you pick up five to ten friends to assist you. Despite this wide variety of assistance, you can only ever have three of them with you at any given time. One of those friends is a <animal/robot/otherwise nonsentient 'thing'>."
I'm sorry, but although I have enjoyed many of the Bioware games, in the end they're all always exactly the same (except Jade Empire). Furthermore, what I find really interesting is the apparent lack of this argument appearing at all. MMO Players tend to lambast and chide Production groups for making games that are similar in any way... even on Rift the argument I hear against WoW is, "I have to log in and do the same thing every day!". Amazing how this argument is never given any objectivity--It's used merely as a shield against the thing people want to hate.
Agreed. Eventually, you're going to get to a point where you reach "endgame" in a mmo, and that has been a large point of contention with many mmos.
Back to the main topic. The supposed hatred stems from what we've been shown gameplay wise. Aside from the storyline focus, there doesn't seem to be enough that is different than the standard quest formula, and the combat looks fairly straightforward as well. With the exception of the setting, there really isn't anything to entice me to play SWTOR. Bioware had an opportunity to be very different with their mmo, and for what has been shown, they are playing it safe, which has only ended in failure for the other mmos who used the same formula.
I like this guy.
TOR just isn't different enough to really feel Star Wars-y. We saw how well "Tiered Classes" worked in EQ2. Get to level 20, and chose between two other classes. Sony eventually cut that out altogether because it was an awful design. As much as Bioware wants people to play it like a single-player game, "a lot" won't. When you do things like make equipment unlockable only when you have enough Darkside points, of course people are going to schew their decisions in favor of the coolest "equipment". Also--In what universe does it make sense that I can't wear a sweater because I'm not Evil enough?
Maybe it is just me but people seem to be coming up with issue they either want to exist and fear they will exist without any evidence to support it.
some of you people are taking a swings at phantoms. because you fear what is not. rationalizing it in your mind so it becomes real to you while no one else see what you see. but becuase you keep whining about it people start picking up that fear and thust becomes mob rule. therefore you think it is justified to whine about the issue because others do.
well if the mob decided to rape someone does that make it right no use your head people. instead of thinking of the problem think of a solution.
besides Bioware has stated they plan on releasing information on some of the endgame content at comiccon and some information of things they plan that have never been done in endgame. so hold your blasters and wait to see what they have come up with before you start inventing problems and issues that do not yet exist.
Games I will be playing are: TES V, SWTOR, ME 3, TSW