Ban botters, ban farmers, most important, permaban everyone who buys gold. Don't buy into the problem.
You don't get it, the problem is how do you determine who buys and who is a bot? This is the problem. If you ban as much legit players as goldsellers/bots you're heading for failure. Legit players won't take bans and they will stop friends playing likewise.
Ban botters, ban farmers, most important, permaban everyone who buys gold. Don't buy into the problem.
You don't get it, the problem is how do you determine who buys and who is a bot? This is the problem. If you ban as much legit players as goldsellers/bots you're heading for failure. Legit players won't take bans and they will stop friends playing likewise.
If I can spot a bot with no special training or programming, just by watching it for ten or fifteen minutes, then I know people who work for these companies can. And even if you don't get all the botters this way, permabanning everyone who buys their gold and publishing the fact is another way to keep it in check.
What doesn't work, obviously, as everyone who has played Guild Wars 2 knows, is sanctioned RMT. Because the illicit gold farmers simply undercut prices and went right on botting, spamming, and selling gold.
I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
Ban botters, ban farmers, most important, permaban everyone who buys gold. Don't buy into the problem.
You don't get it, the problem is how do you determine who buys and who is a bot? This is the problem. If you ban as much legit players as goldsellers/bots you're heading for failure. Legit players won't take bans and they will stop friends playing likewise.
If I can spot a bot with no special training or programming, just by watching it for ten or fifteen minutes, then I know people who work for these companies can. And even if you don't get all the botters this way, permabanning everyone who buys their gold and publishing the fact is another way to keep it in check.
What doesn't work, obviously, as everyone who has played Guild Wars 2 knows, is sanctioned RMT. Because the illicit gold farmers simply undercut prices and went right on botting, spamming, and selling gold.
Fifteen minutes per 100,000 players comes out to 1.5M minutes, or about 2.85 years. The effort required to differentiate between bots and people is considerably more involved than you are alluding to, especially when there can be a nearly 0 percent chance of nabbing legit players.
What are the negative consequences in GW2 surrounding the bots participating in the economy?
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Ban botters, ban farmers, most important, permaban everyone who buys gold. Don't buy into the problem.
You don't get it, the problem is how do you determine who buys and who is a bot? This is the problem. If you ban as much legit players as goldsellers/bots you're heading for failure. Legit players won't take bans and they will stop friends playing likewise.
If I can spot a bot with no special training or programming, just by watching it for ten or fifteen minutes, then I know people who work for these companies can. And even if you don't get all the botters this way, permabanning everyone who buys their gold and publishing the fact is another way to keep it in check.
What doesn't work, obviously, as everyone who has played Guild Wars 2 knows, is sanctioned RMT. Because the illicit gold farmers simply undercut prices and went right on botting, spamming, and selling gold.
Fifteen minutes per 100,000 players comes out to 1.5M minutes, or about 2.85 years. The effort required to differentiate between bots and people is considerably more involved than you are alluding to, especially when there can be a nearly 0 percent chance of nabbing legit players.
What are the negative consequences in GW2 surrounding the bots participating in the economy?
They're mostly a blight on the landscape, as well as making farming more difficult for real players who aren't trying to make a living at selling pixels. In other games, where tagging a mob gets you absolutely nothing unless you either hit it first or out damage the bot, it is of course much worse.
As for detection: If it's too hard to spot the bot, follow the money.
Regardless, dev sanctioned RMT is often touted as a way to cut down on bots, gold farmer spam, and stolen accounts. My point is that it doesn't work.
I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
Regardless, dev sanctioned RMT is often touted as a way to cut down on bots, gold farmer spam, and stolen accounts. My point is that it doesn't work.
It will reduce farmers that can't compete against the sactioned rmt. But it will never stop stolen accounts. Stolen Accounts are profit for near-zero effort -this kind of business will never vanish unless the players start caring about their account security. Devs can't protect people who choose hunter2 as a password or use the same account info on some fansite with horrible security - those sites are getting hacked , their data stolen and then tested for the respective game.
Regardless, dev sanctioned RMT is often touted as a way to cut down on bots, gold farmer spam, and stolen accounts. My point is that it doesn't work.
It will reduce farmers that can't compete against the sactioned rmt. But it will never stop stolen accounts. Stolen Accounts are profit for near-zero effort -this kind of business will never vanish unless the players start caring about their account security. Devs can't protect people who choose hunter2 as a password or use the same account info on some fansite with horrible security - those sites are getting hacked , their data stolen and then tested for the respective game.
From what I've seen, it doesn't reduce it, either. Even if it does, it's so marginal I couldn't see any difference. Spam everywhere and one of the few times I was in Vent, people were openly discussing purchasing gold from gold farmers because it was cheaper than gems for gold.
So why should players put up with nerfed farming spots and borked economies? Much less put up with people who paid cash for gear they can then use in group PvE and PvP? It fixes nothing and creates its own problems.
I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
Ban botters, ban farmers, most important, permaban everyone who buys gold. Don't buy into the problem.
You don't get it, the problem is how do you determine who buys and who is a bot? This is the problem. If you ban as much legit players as goldsellers/bots you're heading for failure. Legit players won't take bans and they will stop friends playing likewise.
If I can spot a bot with no special training or programming, just by watching it for ten or fifteen minutes, then I know people who work for these companies can. And even if you don't get all the botters this way, permabanning everyone who buys their gold and publishing the fact is another way to keep it in check.
What doesn't work, obviously, as everyone who has played Guild Wars 2 knows, is sanctioned RMT. Because the illicit gold farmers simply undercut prices and went right on botting, spamming, and selling gold.
Fifteen minutes per 100,000 players comes out to 1.5M minutes, or about 2.85 years. The effort required to differentiate between bots and people is considerably more involved than you are alluding to, especially when there can be a nearly 0 percent chance of nabbing legit players.
What are the negative consequences in GW2 surrounding the bots participating in the economy?
They're mostly a blight on the landscape, as well as making farming more difficult for real players who aren't trying to make a living at selling pixels. In other games, where tagging a mob gets you absolutely nothing unless you either hit it first or out damage the bot, it is of course much worse.
As for detection: If it's too hard to spot the bot, follow the money.
Regardless, dev sanctioned RMT is often touted as a way to cut down on bots, gold farmer spam, and stolen accounts. My point is that it doesn't work.
If dev sanctioned RMT cut down on bots and improved a game, the D3 wouldn't have removed their auction house(s).
My question concerning the bots was really trying to get at the actual, measurable negative consequences. So many people go on about them, but at the same time assume that everyone knows what the negative effects are, and that they are horrendous. Mostly it just seems annoying.
Gold inflation happens whether bots are in the games or not because items aren't removed from the game. Items are deprecated, but there is an infinite supply of both items and gold. The longer a player plays, the more gold they will have as well, with less and less to spend the gold on.
Items being undercut in the auction house will happen as well. Whatever the most valuable item is, players will attempt to sell, and they will undercut each other doing so.
People spending real money on in game stuff has been happening forever too. Whether it's "bots" or "players", since there is a market, there will be people to supply that market.
"Blight on the landscape" is probably the most measurable, negative effect of bots. Even if most of them aren't noticeable, a lot of them are, and it's incredibly annoying to see them running around or just standing there.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar Any impact is imo just your own perception.
It has nothing to do with perception and everything to do with facts.
It IS perception, however, in your world, a developer creates features in a vacuum, independent of all other gameplay mechanics and completely ignorant as to their possible effects on other areas of the game.
That is, of course, if we want to talk facts.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
CREDD and Plex function exactly the same. Credd doesn't convert into in game currency either. So how is this any different? I don't see how type of gameplay is relevant at all.
Now, I don't consider EVE to be an MMORPG the same way that EQ, or WoW, or FFXIV are MMORPGs. It's massive. It has subs. It's online. But it's not exactly the same style of game for gameplay or overall flow.
It absolutely and unquestionably is an MMORPG. I think your definition of MMORPG needs adjustment.
They can adjust a game all day, but they can't help the issue between the keyboard and the chair. Played: UO, DAoC, AC, WoW, EVE, TR, WAR, Aion, Rift, SWTOR, GW2, TSW, ESO, Elite:D Play EVE for free for 21 days
I guess I'm just wierd. It's really odd to me that this isn't huge news for the gaming sites. But then, it's not like many gaming sites actually DO news these days, they're mostly just paid review and paid advertising/hype sites for the big name games. It's pretty sad.
You don't seriously think you're telling people something they didn't already know do you?
A massive TL;DNR post that should have been subtitled.
My name is Voqar - and here is my homage to "The Bleed1n£ Obvious"
People moaning about cash shops in F2P games. "It's ok if they sell cosmetic items - but that should be it, but not XP buffs, in game gold etc, that's just wrong"
Like a game is going to recoup the millions it cost to make and hundreds of thousands a month of ongoing support and server costs by supplying players with a different coloured cape - when only someone with the personality type of a 3 day old kitten would be even remotely interested in buying a slightly different looking pair of trousers for their character in the first place.
F2P = P2W in some sense. Always has - always will.
If that's not mind numbingly obvious then I don't know what is
A conversion is the process of changing or causing something to change from one form to another. In this case real money is converted into ISK by using the PLEX system.
You still do not understand the concept of PLEX. As poster above tried to explain to you, RL money are NOT converted into ISK.
When you are selling a PLEX, one has to make ISK ingame to be able to afford it. There is no Conversion - you exhange a Labour for Product.
Originally posted by Asariasha
In traditional MMOs a closed economic system applies.
An economy has inputs and outputs, it does not matter what they are. No more, no less.
Originally posted by Asariasha
But what it does is breaking the concept of equality of players by allowing to buy-in.
There is no equality.
Not all EVE players earn ingame ISK at the same rate. Not all people have same resources - spare time to play, skills, witt, community, w/e ....or in fact real cash to spent on the game. No difference there.
You either have what it takes to be "successfull" or you don't. That is a fundamental underlaying concept. Qualifiers may vary but no qualifiers are right or wrong.
You just want to the game played your way...
Maybe the term "exchange" is more convenient for you.
However, the fact remains that you can buy ISK for realm money by selling PLEX in-game.
Now, I don't consider EVE to be an MMORPG the same way that EQ, or WoW, or FFXIV are MMORPGs. It's massive. It has subs. It's online. But it's not exactly the same style of game for gameplay or overall flow.
It absolutely and unquestionably is an MMORPG. I think your definition of MMORPG needs adjustment.
EvE is an MMO - the idea that an MMORPG is tied to a very specific sort of gameplay mechanic is nonsense. In many respects EvE is more MM and more RPG than many others that use "WoW" style mechanics.
Voquar has pretty much "pi$$ed on his chips" and shown his complete lack of understanding about even the most basic MMORPG concepts with this claim
"Blight on the landscape" is probably the most measurable, negative effect of bots. Even if most of them aren't noticeable, a lot of them are, and it's incredibly annoying to see them running around or just standing there.
In games where I have to compete with bots for kills or whatever mats I'm gathering, it's more than just a blight. I rarely fight other players for farming spots of any kind. I'd rather just move along or wait, especially if someone is there first. I'm polite like that. But if it's bots, I'm going to watch for awhile to make sure I'm correct, then I'm reporting them. And in a day or so, if they're still there clogging up my favorite farming spots, I'm likely going to quit the game. Letting obvious bots remain after players have reported them shows a serious lack of concern for the players.
I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
Originally posted by Asariasha Maybe the term "exchange" is more convenient for you.However, the fact remains that you can buy ISK for realm money by selling PLEX in-game.
Yes, exchange is proper term, you are still mistaken in what is actually being exchanged though.
How is RMT or paying for any in game item with a credit card instead of entering a cheat code not anything more than paid sanctioned cheating? All RMT boils down to is buying cheat codes. It's all just monetized cheating.
If it is sanctioned, it is not cheating. Devs make the rules. If they allow RMT, it is part of the game. You may not like the rules, but it is not cheating.
Just because the rules get changed doesn't make something instantly not cheating. There is such a thing as sanctioned cheating.
If the Board of Education changed the rules so answer sheets are now legal and they are going to sell them. That does not make the use of answer sheets any less of a sleazy, dishonest, shortcut where the student puts forth no effort other than buying the answer sheet. It's still cheating even if they change the rules.
We are talking about video games here, not education.
If devs says you can pay to win, that is the rule of the game. If you think official rules of the game is cheating .. well .. that is your problem. I will listen to devs, not some random people on the internet.
How is RMT or paying for any in game item with a credit card instead of entering a cheat code not anything more than paid sanctioned cheating? All RMT boils down to is buying cheat codes. It's all just monetized cheating.
If it is sanctioned, it is not cheating. Devs make the rules. If they allow RMT, it is part of the game. You may not like the rules, but it is not cheating.
Just because the rules get changed doesn't make something instantly not cheating. There is such a thing as sanctioned cheating.
If the Board of Education changed the rules so answer sheets are now legal and they are going to sell them. That does not make the use of answer sheets any less of a sleazy, dishonest, shortcut where the student puts forth no effort other than buying the answer sheet. It's still cheating even if they change the rules.
We are talking about video games here, not education.
If devs says you can pay to win, that is the rule of the game. If you think official rules of the game is cheating .. well .. that is your problem. I will listen to devs, not some random people on the internet.
That is likely your problem. Devs only care about the money these days. Some players actually care about the game experience.
How is RMT or paying for any in game item with a credit card instead of entering a cheat code not anything more than paid sanctioned cheating? All RMT boils down to is buying cheat codes. It's all just monetized cheating.
If it is sanctioned, it is not cheating. Devs make the rules. If they allow RMT, it is part of the game. You may not like the rules, but it is not cheating.
Just because the rules get changed doesn't make something instantly not cheating. There is such a thing as sanctioned cheating.
If the Board of Education changed the rules so answer sheets are now legal and they are going to sell them. That does not make the use of answer sheets any less of a sleazy, dishonest, shortcut where the student puts forth no effort other than buying the answer sheet. It's still cheating even if they change the rules.
We are talking about video games here, not education.
If devs says you can pay to win, that is the rule of the game. If you think official rules of the game is cheating .. well .. that is your problem. I will listen to devs, not some random people on the internet.
That is likely your problem. Devs only care about the money these days. Some players actually care about the game experience.
Which is irrelevant to if there is sanctioned cheating. If it is sanctioned by devs, it is not cheating.
Whether one will like the experience, is another question.
Cheating has always been accepted in console and pc games, creating mods on the pc, and using Game Genie for the console. The famous konami code for the consoles.
Time Vs Money. There will always be cheating when the person has more money than time, there will always be crying when the person has more time than money, meanwhile people who have both time and money accept that they will do however they see fit and just enjoy the game.
There are a ton of games on the market, in such an oversaturated mmo market people feel they don't have time to play a game fairly. Therefore, more people will cheat to jump ship over to the next "best thing" mmo to release. There is no loyalty, because most games are not deserving of it. We don't have virtual worlds anymore, so people just view mmos as a game to be "beaten" as fast as possible so you can quit and move on.
Now, in the past we had more moral values as a society, so we weren't pressed for time and rushed daily, but alas mankind has forgotten how to smell the roses in his relentless neverending pursuit of the almighty dollar.
Time now moves to quickly for anyone to be loyal and laid back, so people must do what they can to try and derive more pleasure from a shorter period of time.
Also, as long as someone had something to barter with, they could always bribe a family member or a friend to do a task for them. Which is "cheating" because that grind heavy mount they acquired? Might have been given to them from someone else's work, however they still deserve it because they were lucky enough to have someone else willing to attain it for them.
Life will never be entirely fair, some of us do all of our own playing and others share characters, it is just how life is.
Well commonly as far as I know, when times passes by programers/hackers do made hacking progs. just to gain advantage on others. Its all about fame, money and POWER/AUTHORITY. Not unless BAN hammer strikes them! haha
Comments
You don't get it, the problem is how do you determine who buys and who is a bot? This is the problem. If you ban as much legit players as goldsellers/bots you're heading for failure. Legit players won't take bans and they will stop friends playing likewise.
Pi*1337/100 = 42
If I can spot a bot with no special training or programming, just by watching it for ten or fifteen minutes, then I know people who work for these companies can. And even if you don't get all the botters this way, permabanning everyone who buys their gold and publishing the fact is another way to keep it in check.
What doesn't work, obviously, as everyone who has played Guild Wars 2 knows, is sanctioned RMT. Because the illicit gold farmers simply undercut prices and went right on botting, spamming, and selling gold.
I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
~Albert Einstein
That's just, like, my opinion, man.
Fifteen minutes per 100,000 players comes out to 1.5M minutes, or about 2.85 years. The effort required to differentiate between bots and people is considerably more involved than you are alluding to, especially when there can be a nearly 0 percent chance of nabbing legit players.
What are the negative consequences in GW2 surrounding the bots participating in the economy?
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
They're mostly a blight on the landscape, as well as making farming more difficult for real players who aren't trying to make a living at selling pixels. In other games, where tagging a mob gets you absolutely nothing unless you either hit it first or out damage the bot, it is of course much worse.
As for detection: If it's too hard to spot the bot, follow the money.
Regardless, dev sanctioned RMT is often touted as a way to cut down on bots, gold farmer spam, and stolen accounts. My point is that it doesn't work.
I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
~Albert Einstein
It will reduce farmers that can't compete against the sactioned rmt. But it will never stop stolen accounts. Stolen Accounts are profit for near-zero effort -this kind of business will never vanish unless the players start caring about their account security. Devs can't protect people who choose hunter2 as a password or use the same account info on some fansite with horrible security - those sites are getting hacked , their data stolen and then tested for the respective game.
Pi*1337/100 = 42
From what I've seen, it doesn't reduce it, either. Even if it does, it's so marginal I couldn't see any difference. Spam everywhere and one of the few times I was in Vent, people were openly discussing purchasing gold from gold farmers because it was cheaper than gems for gold.
So why should players put up with nerfed farming spots and borked economies? Much less put up with people who paid cash for gear they can then use in group PvE and PvP? It fixes nothing and creates its own problems.
I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
~Albert Einstein
If dev sanctioned RMT cut down on bots and improved a game, the D3 wouldn't have removed their auction house(s).
My question concerning the bots was really trying to get at the actual, measurable negative consequences. So many people go on about them, but at the same time assume that everyone knows what the negative effects are, and that they are horrendous. Mostly it just seems annoying.
Gold inflation happens whether bots are in the games or not because items aren't removed from the game. Items are deprecated, but there is an infinite supply of both items and gold. The longer a player plays, the more gold they will have as well, with less and less to spend the gold on.
Items being undercut in the auction house will happen as well. Whatever the most valuable item is, players will attempt to sell, and they will undercut each other doing so.
People spending real money on in game stuff has been happening forever too. Whether it's "bots" or "players", since there is a market, there will be people to supply that market."Blight on the landscape" is probably the most measurable, negative effect of bots. Even if most of them aren't noticeable, a lot of them are, and it's incredibly annoying to see them running around or just standing there.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
It IS perception, however, in your world, a developer creates features in a vacuum, independent of all other gameplay mechanics and completely ignorant as to their possible effects on other areas of the game.
That is, of course, if we want to talk facts.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
It absolutely and unquestionably is an MMORPG. I think your definition of MMORPG needs adjustment.
They can adjust a game all day, but they can't help the issue between the keyboard and the chair.
Played: UO, DAoC, AC, WoW, EVE, TR, WAR, Aion, Rift, SWTOR, GW2, TSW, ESO, Elite:D
Play EVE for free for 21 days
I came to this thread to see if there were any good cheats mentioned that I could use.
:P
You don't seriously think you're telling people something they didn't already know do you?
A massive TL;DNR post that should have been subtitled.
My name is Voqar - and here is my homage to "The Bleed1n£ Obvious"
People moaning about cash shops in F2P games. "It's ok if they sell cosmetic items - but that should be it, but not XP buffs, in game gold etc, that's just wrong"
Like a game is going to recoup the millions it cost to make and hundreds of thousands a month of ongoing support and server costs by supplying players with a different coloured cape - when only someone with the personality type of a 3 day old kitten would be even remotely interested in buying a slightly different looking pair of trousers for their character in the first place.
F2P = P2W in some sense. Always has - always will.
If that's not mind numbingly obvious then I don't know what is
Subscription games FTW!
Maybe the term "exchange" is more convenient for you.
However, the fact remains that you can buy ISK for realm money by selling PLEX in-game.
EvE is an MMO - the idea that an MMORPG is tied to a very specific sort of gameplay mechanic is nonsense. In many respects EvE is more MM and more RPG than many others that use "WoW" style mechanics.
Voquar has pretty much "pi$$ed on his chips" and shown his complete lack of understanding about even the most basic MMORPG concepts with this claim
In games where I have to compete with bots for kills or whatever mats I'm gathering, it's more than just a blight. I rarely fight other players for farming spots of any kind. I'd rather just move along or wait, especially if someone is there first. I'm polite like that. But if it's bots, I'm going to watch for awhile to make sure I'm correct, then I'm reporting them. And in a day or so, if they're still there clogging up my favorite farming spots, I'm likely going to quit the game. Letting obvious bots remain after players have reported them shows a serious lack of concern for the players.
I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
~Albert Einstein
Yes, exchange is proper term, you are still mistaken in what is actually being exchanged though.
We are talking about video games here, not education.
If devs says you can pay to win, that is the rule of the game. If you think official rules of the game is cheating .. well .. that is your problem. I will listen to devs, not some random people on the internet.
That is likely your problem. Devs only care about the money these days. Some players actually care about the game experience.
Which is irrelevant to if there is sanctioned cheating. If it is sanctioned by devs, it is not cheating.
Whether one will like the experience, is another question.
Cheating has always been accepted in console and pc games, creating mods on the pc, and using Game Genie for the console. The famous konami code for the consoles.
Time Vs Money. There will always be cheating when the person has more money than time, there will always be crying when the person has more time than money, meanwhile people who have both time and money accept that they will do however they see fit and just enjoy the game.
There are a ton of games on the market, in such an oversaturated mmo market people feel they don't have time to play a game fairly. Therefore, more people will cheat to jump ship over to the next "best thing" mmo to release. There is no loyalty, because most games are not deserving of it. We don't have virtual worlds anymore, so people just view mmos as a game to be "beaten" as fast as possible so you can quit and move on.
Now, in the past we had more moral values as a society, so we weren't pressed for time and rushed daily, but alas mankind has forgotten how to smell the roses in his relentless neverending pursuit of the almighty dollar.
Time now moves to quickly for anyone to be loyal and laid back, so people must do what they can to try and derive more pleasure from a shorter period of time.
Also, as long as someone had something to barter with, they could always bribe a family member or a friend to do a task for them. Which is "cheating" because that grind heavy mount they acquired? Might have been given to them from someone else's work, however they still deserve it because they were lucky enough to have someone else willing to attain it for them.
Life will never be entirely fair, some of us do all of our own playing and others share characters, it is just how life is.