Actually i would but with certain things being limited. PvP for a start, instances for another (if instanced) and world boss's. PvP - so gankers wont get the upper hand and become real nobshites 10x over. Instanced dungeons - Because you have to rely upon the rest of teh group and all it takes is 1 to balls it all up and get everyone killed, which of course could be done on purpose (loads of people out there that would do that). World Boss's - Simply more often than not you die during it.
Or allow healers to still resurrected corpse's (whether there online or not), so one can hope for a resurrection from some kind player. Even if your playing a differant toon. Not exactly perma death there but one would have to hope for a resurrection (would not work in dungeon instances). Which is why i would like those to become none instanced. Guilds could create a portal with materials to allow entry to guild versions of instances (where healers CAN resurrected fallen guild members).
Resurrection is exactly the way I want it. Until the player cancels out that toon to start another one. And I love the idea of building a portal. But I'd want it to be expensive and permanent until torn down. Part of a bigger picture of the game world and playing. So a guild (or an individual, if they have the means) could build a portal (to anywhere, really) and charge others to use it (or not).
The way I see it, the sorts of places where players perma-death in ("end game" content to you level grinders) should be a real challenge to make a Resurrection Run in too. Otherwise, what fun is it? lol
My issue with permanent deathis pretty simple. I don't like the thought of losing a character I spent hundreds of hours on. I also like long-term games that I can spend hundreds of hours on a character. I guess it would be okay if I can pass on all the skills and items to a descendant but what's the difference between that and a simple cosmetic face change.
You should try games were you don't spend 100's of hours just to reach the point in the game were the real content actually starts.
This is why MMORPGs suck these days. Too many players have this thought that "the fun begins.... HERE! <some imaginary point in a game, usually at the end>." If I'm not having from the get-go, I'm done.
That would be basically every modern game out today. The who questing grind thing that they have copied from EQ1 and DAOC is really just a long and drawn out process that is really just a way to extend the average subscription length before players get burned out in the end game content. You have end game content because games have level caps and because MMO's are always better when you are playing with others. You tend to have to rush tot hat cap just to play with the cool kids. If you want to eliminate the grind to end game, you would have to eliminate levels and level caps and replace that with a skills based progression that uses a heavy curve to give the most gains to the earliest advances and less gain to later skill progression so that new players are equally competitive with old players.
Actually i would but with certain things being limited. PvP for a start, instances for another (if instanced) and world boss's. PvP - so gankers wont get the upper hand and become real nobshites 10x over. Instanced dungeons - Because you have to rely upon the rest of teh group and all it takes is 1 to balls it all up and get everyone killed, which of course could be done on purpose (loads of people out there that would do that). World Boss's - Simply more often than not you die during it.
Or allow healers to still resurrected corpse's (whether there online or not), so one can hope for a resurrection from some kind player. Even if your playing a differant toon. Not exactly perma death there but one would have to hope for a resurrection (would not work in dungeon instances). Which is why i would like those to become none instanced. Guilds could create a portal with materials to allow entry to guild versions of instances (where healers CAN resurrected fallen guild members).
Games with permadeath are not going to appeal to players seeking the whole gather 40 people around a 500 foot tall monster in an instance type of gameplay. Its pretty much going to be some sort of FFA PVP MMO. When you mention death of any kind the PVE types tuck tail and run.
My issue with permanent deathis pretty simple. I don't like the thought of losing a character I spent hundreds of hours on. I also like long-term games that I can spend hundreds of hours on a character. I guess it would be okay if I can pass on all the skills and items to a descendant but what's the difference between that and a simple cosmetic face change.
You should try games were you don't spend 100's of hours just to reach the point in the game were the real content actually starts.
This is why MMORPGs suck these days. Too many players have this thought that "the fun begins.... HERE! <some imaginary point in a game, usually at the end>." If I'm not having from the get-go, I'm done.
That would be basically every modern game out today. The who questing grind thing that they have copied from EQ1 and DAOC is really just a long and drawn out process that is really just a way to extend the average subscription length before players get burned out in the end game content. You have end game content because games have level caps and because MMO's are always better when you are playing with others. You tend to have to rush tot hat cap just to play with the cool kids. If you want to eliminate the grind to end game, you would have to eliminate levels and level caps and replace that with a skills based progression that uses a heavy curve to give the most gains to the earliest advances and less gain to later skill progression so that new players are equally competitive with old players.
Having endgame content is not the problem. The problem is thinking that the game doesn't start till you reach end game is the problem.
The game starts at level 1.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
My issue with permanent deathis pretty simple. I don't like the thought of losing a character I spent hundreds of hours on. I also like long-term games that I can spend hundreds of hours on a character. I guess it would be okay if I can pass on all the skills and items to a descendant but what's the difference between that and a simple cosmetic face change.
You should try games were you don't spend 100's of hours just to reach the point in the game were the real content actually starts.
This is why MMORPGs suck these days. Too many players have this thought that "the fun begins.... HERE! <some imaginary point in a game, usually at the end>." If I'm not having from the get-go, I'm done.
That would be basically every modern game out today. The who questing grind thing that they have copied from EQ1 and DAOC is really just a long and drawn out process that is really just a way to extend the average subscription length before players get burned out in the end game content. You have end game content because games have level caps and because MMO's are always better when you are playing with others. You tend to have to rush tot hat cap just to play with the cool kids. If you want to eliminate the grind to end game, you would have to eliminate levels and level caps and replace that with a skills based progression that uses a heavy curve to give the most gains to the earliest advances and less gain to later skill progression so that new players are equally competitive with old players.
Having endgame content is not the problem. The problem is thinking that the game doesn't start till you reach end game is the problem.
The game starts at level 1.
To that I'll add, if the game is bad until you reach endgame, then the game is bad, period. Unless the endgame starts at level 1, or awfully near it.
Not perma-death, but how about having to pay real money to recover your character after death. More xp to recover more money it would cost. The ultimate pay to win and a feature for whales.
I would like to try a well made permadeath game. Something where you wouldn't lose all progression.
Talking about games where thousands of players exist simultaneously in a single instance and mechanics related to such games.
I just had another thought Permanent death. How can one "figure out" the tough fights like boss battles? How does dungeon running work?
Actually the dungeon running could be cool with all the dead players' loot dropping to add to it. I still wouldn't play it, but that'd be kind of cool
Will the game have these in them?
YouTube solves the problem. When we bosses come out in PoE you see the fights on YouTube first. I've done it a few times but now I sometimes I believe in my character and just fight cautiously.
Catch me streaming at twitch.tv/cryomatrix You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations.
Not perma-death, but how about having to pay real money to recover your character after death. More xp to recover more money it would cost. The ultimate pay to win and a feature for whales.
My issue with permanent deathis pretty simple. I don't like the thought of losing a character I spent hundreds of hours on. I also like long-term games that I can spend hundreds of hours on a character. I guess it would be okay if I can pass on all the skills and items to a descendant but what's the difference between that and a simple cosmetic face change.
You should try games were you don't spend 100's of hours just to reach the point in the game were the real content actually starts.
This is why MMORPGs suck these days. Too many players have this thought that "the fun begins.... HERE! <some imaginary point in a game, usually at the end>." If I'm not having from the get-go, I'm done.
That would be basically every modern game out today. The who questing grind thing that they have copied from EQ1 and DAOC is really just a long and drawn out process that is really just a way to extend the average subscription length before players get burned out in the end game content. You have end game content because games have level caps and because MMO's are always better when you are playing with others. You tend to have to rush tot hat cap just to play with the cool kids. If you want to eliminate the grind to end game, you would have to eliminate levels and level caps and replace that with a skills based progression that uses a heavy curve to give the most gains to the earliest advances and less gain to later skill progression so that new players are equally competitive with old players.
Having endgame content is not the problem. The problem is thinking that the game doesn't start till you reach end game is the problem.
The game starts at level 1.
Usually everything you do between level 1 and level max has no consequence on your gameplay. This is why some people use bots/gliders. Would you rather be alone in a leveling zone or with thousands in the endgame areas?
Not perma-death, but how about having to pay real money to recover your character after death. More xp to recover more money it would cost. The ultimate pay to win and a feature for whales.
So an arcade game?
Yes, an arcade mmorpg. the next big hit.
Talking about games where thousands of players exist simultaneously in a single instance and mechanics related to such games.
I just had another thought Permanent death. How can one "figure out" the tough fights like boss battles? How does dungeon running work?
Actually the dungeon running could be cool with all the dead players' loot dropping to add to it. I still wouldn't play it, but that'd be kind of cool
Will the game have these in them?
The issue is that you are still thinking about it like other mmorpg's where players spend a lot of time making their character, collecting the purples, etc.
A permadeath game would not be based on that. You the player would figure things out when you went into the encounter, if your character died then "no big deal" and you would go in with another character.
In order to have a discussion on permadeath you have to let go of how an mmorpg deals with characters and progression.
A permadeath game is not about "the character". It's about the stable of characters you will eventually have.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
I just had another thought Permanent death. How can one "figure out" the tough fights like boss battles? How does dungeon running work?
Actually the dungeon running could be cool with all the dead players' loot dropping to add to it. I still wouldn't play it, but that'd be kind of cool
Will the game have these in them?
The issue is that you are still thinking about it like other mmorpg's where players spend a lot of time making their character, collecting the purples, etc.
A permadeath game would not be based on that. You the player would figure things out when you went into the encounter, if your character died then "no big deal" and you would go in with another character.
In order to have a discussion on permadeath you have to let go of how an mmorpg deals with characters and progression.
A permadeath game is not about "the character". It's about the stable of characters you will eventually have.
Ya know, I've always liked the idea that you'd have the option of building a "household" of interconnected characters with rights of heritage. So if one character dies, their possessions and historical record continues in the "line". Not that all characters would have to be family related, some could be; the Mage, the Squire, the Historian, the House-man or Lamp-bearer or Stable-man, whatever a player wishes to fill in.
Didn't read through all of the responses, but, Star Wars Galaxies had perma death for a long time, if you became a Jedi.
Wurm Online had a similar thing with "Champions" on PvP servers.
Wurm has normal players who have full access to all non-magical skills.
Then it has priests who lose a lot of access to many of their non-magical skills but gain a spell list with a variety of spells useful in and out of combat.
Champions got access to all skills, and the priest spells granted by their god, as well as some ridiculously good buffs like a straight 50% reduction to incoming damage. But they had permadeath after like their 3rd death.
They've since replaced it with a system where you have champion points and you lose champion status after falling below a certain amount of champion points but you keep your character. Deaths dramatically decrease champion points.
Perma-death could work for me, but it would need to be a specific type experience.
The biggest things a game would need to attract me are:
Slow world clock. One of the most unrealistic things most games provide is a frenetic pace of combat. It isn't uncommon for a character to be in 100+ fight-to-the-deaths in a single game day. That may work for EQ1 with respawn and resurrection and the like, but that volume of conflicts isn't sustainable. Make the game world (and character activity) operate at a more sustainable, realistic pace.
Non-combat systems. Since the game wouldn't be built on miniscule progression via combat, the game would need to provide alternative ways to develop the character. These could provide alternate paths to progression, or feed into a unified progression system. The variety would be necessary to keep players involved.
Deal with Internet issues. Lag, latency and signal loss are facts of internet gaming. The game needs to provide a satisfactory means for the player to recover from a death due to loss or interruption of service. This might be similar to a /petition system, which could allow a GM to restore a character, with strict limits to prevent abuse.
I have no complete solution to this, and what would appeal to me might not appeal to others. I don't know that a satisfactory perma-death solution exists.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
Didn't read through all of the responses, but, Star Wars Galaxies had perma death for a long time, if you became a Jedi.
yeah but here was the deal, it would be perma death because you could start the jedi/sith training if you wanted, if you started you had 3 death before the perma death, and that perma death ended when you become a master, the lvl was padawan knight then master, after hitting master you was free from perma death
Rather than perma-death, I think it is probably better to have perma-decay on items or gears and no soul-bind on items.
Perma-death doesn't really do anything for gameplay or the community aspects of the game. Perma-decay however does because it encourages cooperative and commercial activities, and also to a certain extent regulate inflation in game because characters starting to horde too much coins,
I just had another thought Permanent death. How can one "figure out" the tough fights like boss battles? How does dungeon running work?
Actually the dungeon running could be cool with all the dead players' loot dropping to add to it. I still wouldn't play it, but that'd be kind of cool
Will the game have these in them?
The issue is that you are still thinking about it like other mmorpg's where players spend a lot of time making their character, collecting the purples, etc.
A permadeath game would not be based on that. You the player would figure things out when you went into the encounter, if your character died then "no big deal" and you would go in with another character.
In order to have a discussion on permadeath you have to let go of how an mmorpg deals with characters and progression.
A permadeath game is not about "the character". It's about the stable of characters you will eventually have.
Yeah, I can’t do that. Even in single player squad games such as XCOM, I’ll brook no permanent death of my characters. If a fight goes bad, time to reload a save game, again and again and again if necessary until I at least survive with all intact.
Which is why I never play games on Hardcore mode, hate replaying content just for the heck of it, the only real measure is progression, followed by completion. I have to finish.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I just had another thought Permanent death. How can one "figure out" the tough fights like boss battles? How does dungeon running work?
Actually the dungeon running could be cool with all the dead players' loot dropping to add to it. I still wouldn't play it, but that'd be kind of cool
Will the game have these in them?
The issue is that you are still thinking about it like other mmorpg's where players spend a lot of time making their character, collecting the purples, etc.
A permadeath game would not be based on that. You the player would figure things out when you went into the encounter, if your character died then "no big deal" and you would go in with another character.
In order to have a discussion on permadeath you have to let go of how an mmorpg deals with characters and progression.
A permadeath game is not about "the character". It's about the stable of characters you will eventually have.
Yeah, I can’t do that. Even in single player squad games such as XCOM, I’ll brook no permanent death of my characters. If a fight goes bad, time to reload a save game, again and again and again if necessary until I at least survive with all intact.
Which is why I never play games on Hardcore mode, hate replaying content just for the heck of it, the only real measure is progression, followed by completion. I have to finish.
So no Darkest Dungeons for me......
Maybe the content would have to be different then for you to accept a perma death?
I stand in the same boat, I hate replaying the same crap over and over which is why I cannot play POE on more than one character until new content comes out.
But what if the content wasn't linear, and there was still a form of progression tied to the account not just the character. I don't know how it could be done but if progression wasn't level based, and there was places to go that didn't require other content to be completed, I think it could be pretty fun. Although at that point it's just a perma death MMO adventure game more than an RPG.
I just had another thought Permanent death. How can one "figure out" the tough fights like boss battles? How does dungeon running work?
Actually the dungeon running could be cool with all the dead players' loot dropping to add to it. I still wouldn't play it, but that'd be kind of cool
Will the game have these in them?
The issue is that you are still thinking about it like other mmorpg's where players spend a lot of time making their character, collecting the purples, etc.
A permadeath game would not be based on that. You the player would figure things out when you went into the encounter, if your character died then "no big deal" and you would go in with another character.
In order to have a discussion on permadeath you have to let go of how an mmorpg deals with characters and progression.
A permadeath game is not about "the character". It's about the stable of characters you will eventually have.
Yeah, I can’t do that. Even in single player squad games such as XCOM, I’ll brook no permanent death of my characters. If a fight goes bad, time to reload a save game, again and again and again if necessary until I at least survive with all intact.
Which is why I never play games on Hardcore mode, hate replaying content just for the heck of it, the only real measure is progression, followed by completion. I have to finish.
So no Darkest Dungeons for me......
It's interesting you mention Darkest Dungeon as that was my thought when I wrote that.
I would enter encounters, lose a few or just wipe and then do it better the next time. Finally finished the Varon boss in the Crimson Court last night.
Not only did I lose people the first time I encountered him but I also lost trinkets.
God I love that game.
So that's the thing, there's a sting but it's not impossible to bounce back.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
I just had another thought Permanent death. How can one "figure out" the tough fights like boss battles? How does dungeon running work?
Actually the dungeon running could be cool with all the dead players' loot dropping to add to it. I still wouldn't play it, but that'd be kind of cool
Will the game have these in them?
The issue is that you are still thinking about it like other mmorpg's where players spend a lot of time making their character, collecting the purples, etc.
A permadeath game would not be based on that. You the player would figure things out when you went into the encounter, if your character died then "no big deal" and you would go in with another character.
In order to have a discussion on permadeath you have to let go of how an mmorpg deals with characters and progression.
A permadeath game is not about "the character". It's about the stable of characters you will eventually have.
Yeah, I can’t do that. Even in single player squad games such as XCOM, I’ll brook no permanent death of my characters. If a fight goes bad, time to reload a save game, again and again and again if necessary until I at least survive with all intact.
Which is why I never play games on Hardcore mode, hate replaying content just for the heck of it, the only real measure is progression, followed by completion. I have to finish.
So no Darkest Dungeons for me......
It's interesting you mention Darkest Dungeon as that was my thought when I wrote that.
I would enter encounters, lose a few or just wipe and then do it better the next time. Finally finished the Varon boss in the Crimson Court last night.
Not only did I lose people the first time I encountered him but I also lost trinkets.
God I love that game.
So that's the thing, there's a sting but it's not impossible to bounce back.
and that is for you, I hardly find games nowadays hard anyway, but even so I don't like permadeath games, like I said before in single player games its ok you choose if you want to or not, if you don't reload the last save
and again that is a niche game, don't matter how much you try to spin this tale,people who don't like it will not play it, and funny enough people who want to play perma death can do so even when the game have no feature of this, just delete the char/ start a new game again after a death, there perma death for you
Comments
And I love the idea of building a portal. But I'd want it to be expensive and permanent until torn down. Part of a bigger picture of the game world and playing.
So a guild (or an individual, if they have the means) could build a portal (to anywhere, really) and charge others to use it (or not).
The way I see it, the sorts of places where players perma-death in ("end game" content to you level grinders) should be a real challenge to make a Resurrection Run in too. Otherwise, what fun is it? lol
Once upon a time....
You have end game content because games have level caps and because MMO's are always better when you are playing with others. You tend to have to rush tot hat cap just to play with the cool kids.
If you want to eliminate the grind to end game, you would have to eliminate levels and level caps and replace that with a skills based progression that uses a heavy curve to give the most gains to the earliest advances and less gain to later skill progression so that new players are equally competitive with old players.
Its pretty much going to be some sort of FFA PVP MMO. When you mention death of any kind the PVE types tuck tail and run.
The game starts at level 1.
I would like to try a well made permadeath game. Something where you wouldn't lose all progression.
You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations.
This is why some people use bots/gliders.
Would you rather be alone in a leveling zone or with thousands in the endgame areas?
I don't like raiding. I don't find it fun. Since that is typically what endgame is I don't do endgame.
I let other people level however they want to level. It's their entertainment. I play according to my entertainment.
I really couldn't care less how many people are in the zone with me. My group is only made up of four to eight people anyway.
Every game I've ever played has always had more than enough people in the levelling areas.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
So if one character dies, their possessions and historical record continues in the "line".
Not that all characters would have to be family related, some could be; the Mage, the Squire, the Historian, the House-man or Lamp-bearer or Stable-man, whatever a player wishes to fill in.
Once upon a time....
Wurm has normal players who have full access to all non-magical skills.
Then it has priests who lose a lot of access to many of their non-magical skills but gain a spell list with a variety of spells useful in and out of combat.
Champions got access to all skills, and the priest spells granted by their god, as well as some ridiculously good buffs like a straight 50% reduction to incoming damage. But they had permadeath after like their 3rd death.
They've since replaced it with a system where you have champion points and you lose champion status after falling below a certain amount of champion points but you keep your character. Deaths dramatically decrease champion points.
The biggest things a game would need to attract me are:
- Deal with Internet issues. Lag, latency and signal loss are facts of internet gaming. The game needs to provide a satisfactory means for the player to recover from a death due to loss or interruption of service. This might be similar to a /petition system, which could allow a GM to restore a character, with strict limits to prevent abuse.
I have no complete solution to this, and what would appeal to me might not appeal to others. I don't know that a satisfactory perma-death solution exists.Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
Which is why I never play games on Hardcore mode, hate replaying content just for the heck of it, the only real measure is progression, followed by completion. I have to finish.
So no Darkest Dungeons for me......
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I stand in the same boat, I hate replaying the same crap over and over which is why I cannot play POE on more than one character until new content comes out.
But what if the content wasn't linear, and there was still a form of progression tied to the account not just the character. I don't know how it could be done but if progression wasn't level based, and there was places to go that didn't require other content to be completed, I think it could be pretty fun. Although at that point it's just a perma death MMO adventure game more than an RPG.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
and again that is a niche game, don't matter how much you try to spin this tale,people who don't like it will not play it, and funny enough people who want to play perma death can do so even when the game have no feature of this, just delete the char/ start a new game again after a death, there perma death for you