Originally posted by ravex5 Its just many gamers are spoiled brats who would rather everyone have to do EXACTLY what they did to earn what they have but thats not how the world works. Brad says that it takes away the fun of those who earned the items, but on the other hand it adds to the fun of those who bought the stuff.
This comment made me laugh.
Maybe YOU are the spoiled brat. Not everything in life can be purchased. And yes, you SHOULD have to do exactly what I did to get my epic sword... that's the point of the game. If you cheat, and take shortcuts, it destroys the value of the sword, and the overall enjoyment of the game as a whole.
As for the comment about "the fun of those who bought the stuff," I couldn't really care less. Those of us who followed the rules (read: non-cheaters) have a right to enjoy our game, a right which is fundamentally greater than yours. Take your credit card elsewhere.
stop hogging the damn Mobs, fish to your hearts content couldnt care less plenty of fish out there
You camping Spook because its and easy kill and its drops a cloak most people are happy to pay 50K for? maybe i can actually kill that myself and want to get it without paying for it but one question
How the hell am i gonna get it when you got so many third party programs running you can claim and kill it faster than it takes me to blink!!!
This is the huge downside to RMT,
I play FFXI and the influx of RMT's using bots not only screws the economy it screws the conquest section of the game
Just after SE banned thousands of accounts the Training areas (Dunes, Garlaige Citadel, Qufim) became over run by RMT's leveling chars to sell on for more money
This leaves new players sitting around unable to do anything because RMT's are pwning all the mobs
Imagine you have spent months playing the game, working your way up to being able to kill the mob for the first time only to find you cant because an RMT/BOT has taken to camping and claiming the items it drops ,
At one point me and my LS made a point of running round with Blaze Spikes on casting high level heals to aggro the mobs just so the RMT lost their XP and drops, god bet they loved that
Suffice to say i dont mind RMT, wouldnt ever use them because i get more pride working my way up to the items i want but i DESPISE RMT when they take over an area and stop me progressing
However i did have chat with RMT at one camp and he spoke english, asked if i was after drop and when i said i was because i was more than capable of killing it he gave me the Mob to kill with out claiming it
I have to say that Roger Kipe must be so out of touch with gaming that I bet he doesn't even play one. Play for fun I mean.
The Secondary Market is bad for games. Players are now competing with gold farmers for ingame resources. Before, a player would get what they wanted and move on. Now there could be a farmer bot in the same spot 24/7 essentially barring a legitimate player from getting what they want.
SOE making the Exchange only compounded the issue. They now "legitimized" this Secondary Market so they could make a few more bucks. What happend to the SOE hell bent on suing Ebay for selling EQ1 accounts? Now they are doing the same thing.
Not to mention that it throws game balance out of whack. In theory if Rich Kid wants to he can have Rich Daddy buy him everything in the game. In order to get those items they had to be farmed away from legitimate players by a bot. It also trivializes what the hardcore raiders accomplish, they spend many weeks trying to get a set of gear and Rich Kid just flashes Daddy's MasterCard and gets the same in an hour. The excessive farming aslo can throw the ingame economies askew with some items flooding the brokers/auction houses and others being nearly non-existant due to over farming.
So hard to make this a legal issue as the games are played all over the world. Make it illegal in USA but what can you do to the Korean guy who sells to a German kid?
Roger Kipe strikes me as the type that would be an ambulance chaser lawyer. All he cares about is making the quick buck and to hell with anyone who suffers for it. The example of capitalism at its worst.
- hardcore people who can afford spending 5-15hours daily farming
- rich people who can afford to purchase virtual items/money
The rest of people, noobs, raiders, groupers, purists, roleplayers, casuals are being hurt by these activities. Why? Becuase the in-game currency is being made more worthless, the larger amount of currency on hand - the more worthless it is. And that inflation makes prices to increase. So average consumer, the one that cant afford to farm or buy for real currency, is being hurt becuase suddenly everything is very expensive. Secondary market encourages to farm or to buy, and thats not what MMORPGs are about.
I never bought anything virtual for real money, and I refuse to play any game that promotes that activity, or doesnt do enough effort to halt that activity.
Alright...Here is what I'm tired of reading. "I work 40 hours a week and I have a family, therefore I buy gold to keep up with my friends". BS!!! I work 40 hours a week, I have a family, and I don't have as much time to play a game as others. Does that make it ok for me to cheat?....no! I play the game for fun-I enjoy it when I can and when I can't I enjoy my REAL life. Actually the fact that I work 40 hours a week for my rl money makes sure that I don't spend it on something as silly as items in a game. Surely, you family could benefit alot more from that rl $100 you spend on $1 mil of in-game money. Anyways, lets apply this dynamic to your RL job--You go to work 40 hours a week and work your butt off. Even if your job is boring or repititive you work hard at it anyways because you know its gonna pay off eventually. Now say a woman who doesn't always show up and never works sleeps with the boss. She gets a promotion. Sure her banging the boss doesn't effect you. But guess what you're gonna be pissed because you tried to get that promotion and you tried to do it by the rules. Ultimately, you will hate this woman and eventually seek a new job. This is EXACTLY what happens in MMOs, and no matter how many ppl say, "She just did what she had to do to keep up", and "this doesn't effect other employees". You will always know that as BS, making any arguements that say otherwise moot.
I never bought anything virtual for real money, and I refuse to play any game that promotes that activity, or doesnt do enough effort to halt that activity.
I noticed from your xfire signature that you play Guild Wars.
Guess you better remove that software from your hardrive. Click the ebay link:
Look all, I know it is an emotional issue. I don't like gold farmers either, but you will be hard pressed to find a MMORPG game that has been out for at least 6 months that doesn't have some kind of secondary market. The only way a secondary market is dissolve is when people stop buying their products. Do gold farmers spoil my gaming? Only if I want them to. They camping a spot I desire, I can find another. Is a virutal item sooo valuable to me that I will cancel my subscription? Doubtful. However, if the game design hinges on that item then the developers have created the secondary market because they made a demand for an item that is essential for the continued enjoyment of their game.
I am no lawyer, but I suspect the developers meetings with their lawyers have topics such as:
- If we are going to prosecute someone what have they stolen?
- If we are to take someone to court, what law has been broken?
- If we are to sue this company, what financial damage has your business suffered as a result of this activity?
- If someone countersues us, what could they claim?
The great frontier is the internet and it will be interesting to see what will transpires.
Note, despite many complaints regarding gold farmers, it will not be until the majority of subscribers are miffed about it so that loss subscription numbers are demonstrable enough that the gaming company will have a case. Now to prove which company caused the revenue loss...
I'm seeing the word "cheat" way too many times. Using a secondary market is not by any measure of the word cheating.
Lets look at some facts by starting with what Mr. Webster has to say about the word cheat.
Main Entry: 1cheat Pronunciation: 'chEt Function: verb Etymology: 2cheat transitive verb 1: to deprive of something valuable by the use of deceit or fraud 2: to influence or lead by deceit, trick, or artifice 3: to elude or thwart by or as if by outwitting <cheat death> intransitive verb 1 a: to practice fraud or trickery b: to violate rules dishonestly <cheat at cards> <cheating on a test> 2: to be sexually unfaithful -- usually used with on cheating on his wife> 3: to position oneself defensively near a particular area in anticipation of a play in that area cheating toward second base>
So lets take this as an example. If I were to buy 10pp in EQ2 from someone selling it for real money which one of the above would I be doing? Well, it's not the first one because I've not deprived anyone else from obtaining 10pp and there is no deceit or fraud involved because both parties are willing parties in this transaction. Lets try the next one. Well, no, this one doesnt work either. Humm. Ok lets try the third one. Darn this one doesn't apply either as well as all the rest. Why? Because it's not cheating. The ONLY thing secondary markets do from a business standpoint is cause companies who do not embrace it to miss out on some extra cash flow. Sony saw this and did the only thing it could do - joined in!
As much as I know some of you feel so strongly against buying and selling items and coin for real world money you cannot classify this action as cheating. It simply and factually does not apply.
Sidenote:
Merv808 can I have some of what your smoking? The topic isnt sleeping with your boss to get ahead. If I bought 10pp to advance my character it's my choice and my money. The only way it might affect you is if it were the only 10pp in the game. As for you putting your $100 to use for your family, thats awesome, but what is good for you and yours is different for me and mine. My wife for example collects Barbie dolls - to me a total waste of money - but to her they are treasured items. My point is people are just different and whats good for one person isn't good for another.
Oh did you know that yesterday my character passed by your character? I even said hello! Everything on my character and all the money it had on it was bought using real money. Did me running by you ruin the game for you? Bet you didnt even notice me.
I'm going to have to agree with Roger that if a secondary market is bad for the gaming community, it's bad regardless of whether it's being run by a third party or the company that owns the game. I suppose an argument could be made that gold farmers infest the game's population as poor social players, but I've personally never run into a single one that I know of.
I see the secondary market as inevitable, but I think the game companies should bear no responsibility for lost items. If someone is willing to pay real money for a virtual weapon that's lost, deleted, broken or nerfed, it's the buyer's problem. The game company wasn't a party to the transaction and offered no guarantee that the item would continue to exist or function as expected.
Originally posted by Valorus I'm seeing the word "cheat" way too many times. Using a secondary market is not by any measure of the word cheating. Lets look at some facts by starting with what Mr. Webster has to say about the word cheat. Main Entry: 1cheat Pronunciation: 'chEt Function: verb Etymology: 2cheat transitive verb 1: to deprive of something valuable by the use of deceit or fraud 2: to influence or lead by deceit, trick, or artifice 3: to elude or thwart by or as if by outwitting <cheat death> intransitive verb 1 a: to practice fraud or trickery b: to violate rules dishonestly <cheat at cards> <cheating on a test> 2: to be sexually unfaithful -- usually used with oncheating on his wife> 3: to position oneself defensively near a particular area in anticipation of a play in that area cheating toward second base> So lets take this as an example. If I were to buy 10pp in EQ2 from someone selling it for real money which one of the above would I be doing? Well, it's not the first one because I've not deprived anyone else from obtaining 10pp and there is no deceit or fraud involved because both parties are willing parties in this transaction. Lets try the next one. Well, no, this one doesnt work either. Humm. Ok lets try the third one. Darn this one doesn't apply either as well as all the rest. Why? Because it's not cheating. The ONLY thing secondary markets do from a business standpoint is cause companies who do not embrace it to miss out on some extra cash flow. Sony saw this and did the only thing it could do - joined in! As much as I know some of you feel so strongly against buying and selling items and coin for real world money you cannot classify this action as cheating. It simply and factually does not apply.
I would like to call your attention to your transitive verb definition 1b. to violate rules dishonestly. Everyone that plays MMOs agrees to an End Liscense User Agreement or EULA--in every EULA I've ever read has rules against buying or selling in-game items outside the game. So if you do this-then by Mr. Websters definition....YOU ARE CHEATING.
I would like to call your attention to your transitive verb definition 1b. to violate rules dishonestly. Everyone that plays MMOs agrees to an End Liscense User Agreement or EULA--in every EULA I've ever read has rules against buying or selling in-game items outside the game. So if you do this-then by Mr. Websters definition....YOU ARE CHEATING.
People like you will always try and mold something to suit thier need. I ask you though - which topic do you want to debate? Does it hurt in game? does it hurt a companies bottom line? How to sleep with your boss and get ahead (pun intended)?
EULA are there to protect the company and has no bearing on if it hurts you in game or not.
Interesting debate between the two. To many MMORPG's are item centric. But personally I see no difference purchasing gold or and item than ( Me a high level player ) giving my lower level character gold or items. Point is it was all farmed and earned either by me or some one else. Now having it 'Botted' for me by a macroed group as what I've come across in EQ II is different story and all together wrong. But then again it's the game designers fault for allowing that to happen with macro commands and such. Where as I can see where some may say that it ruins the economy by buying and selling items or gold. I look at the player base more to be at fault for the simple reason of greed by a player who plays the game.I can't count the times I've seen level 30 items sell for triple the price of a level 60 item. People have and will continue to put outrages prices on items even if there wasn't a way to buy gold farmed items. Guess what I'm trying to say is how much of a price can you put on an item be it a rare or not that costs you nothing but your in game leisure time to collect it?
"I want to be a kickass football player. But you know, i don't really have the time. I'm working this job, and between that and having relationships, i just don't have time to really, seriously work out. And you need to work out to get the muscles to be decent at sports. /Sigh. What am i to do?
I know, I'll buy Steroids! Its not fair that other people who have more time or more of a passion for the game get to do so well and i don't. Its just a game, I just want to have fun so why is it wrong for me to do whatever i want? I'll just buy steroids with money that I earned from my job! Its my money, i should be able to buy whatever i want with it."
Not a great example, cause a lot of football players do use steroids but thats just to make money from advertising, etc, things that no gamer is ever going to get. For people who only play sports for fun theres a lot less steroid use. And thats what MMO's are, games people play to have fun. Being good at it should come from putting the time in. People who don't have to put the time or work in diminish the accomplishment of anything in a game.
I would like to call your attention to your transitive verb definition 1b. to violate rules dishonestly. Everyone that plays MMOs agrees to an End Liscense User Agreement or EULA--in every EULA I've ever read has rules against buying or selling in-game items outside the game. So if you do this-then by Mr. Websters definition....YOU ARE CHEATING.
People like you will always try and mold something to suit thier need. I ask you though - which topic do you want to debate? Does it hurt in game? does it hurt a companies bottom line? How to sleep with your boss and get ahead (pun intended)?
EULA are there to protect the company and has no bearing on if it hurts you in game or not.
HUH!? When I made the workplace analogy...I was making a point. Something you failed to do with your webster definition. Thats not me molding anything. Seeing as how you haven't advanced the debate at all. (That last post made no sense whatsoever.) I'll wait for someone that actually has something to bring to the table.
11 pages of posts..many speaking about the "inflation" caused by farmers raising the costs of in game items. But no one seems to remember that in most games, farmers don't just get "gold" as their drops, they frequently get rare, low-drop rate items which they make available for sale on the open market.
The fact they play 18 hours a day means they are more likely to get such rare drops than an average 2-3 hr a day player. So if we relied on average players, rare items would be...really rare. So in a way, farmers help the gaming experience by making rare items more available, and probably (cause I can't prove this, but neither can the other side) lowers the cost of such rare items.
If a game is designed properly, in game money can have little effect. (WOW does a pretty good job at minimizing the impact of farmers in this regard...though the post with the potion example was a possible scenario,but not one I've really ever witnessed)
As to the argument that RMT is cheating...hey, I drive faster than the posted speed limit, jaywalk, lie about where I live so my kids can go to a better school, tell my wife that "its not really a new headset, just looks different", drank lots of alcohol before I reached the age of 21 etc etc. There might be one or two of you out there who never break any of life's rules (or even laws) but most can't say that.
So if there's a cheat/loophole (that's not really even illegal) that permits people to obtain in game items for real life cash (which could be coded against) why wouldn't people take advantage of it?
After all, it is only a game.....
and never forget...
Murphy's Golden Rule: "Whoever has the gold makes the rules"
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I'll try this again to see if anyone has any thoughts.
A virtual item is essentailly nothing more than a few hundred bytes of storage space which are converted to electrons, shipped around the world and then displayed through a software application. They have no monitary value. If a game developer publically approves of a secondary market which applies a real world dollar value to a virtual item; or if that developer sells an item for real world money; the developer can be sued for the fair market value of those few hundred bytes of storage. If they change a couple of those bytes and the item now behaves differently, or should they lose the data and are unable to recover it, they can be held legally accountable.
Why would a game developer, set themselves up for a class action law suit over allowing their intellectual property to be assigned a real world value by a third party?
If anyone is interested check out some of the following links on the topic:
We all know the problem, and we all see that as something diferant. right or wrong the secondary market was not something originaly intended in most cases by the comanies that produce make and market the games. The simplest and easies solution to the issue is this.... All items gold included in any MMOG should be "BOUND" to the character that looted them... The only way they could be traded was with an Auction type method in game... there would need to be some fine tuning but in the end making all in game trades only through an auction system, then ingame gold wouldn't really mean anything nor would how much gold one character has... with nothing to sell in the secondary because you can't trade, then the secondary market would disapear from that game... given that the "no-trade" system was implimented correctly.
"Cry havoc, and let slip the dogs of war!" Julius Caesar (Act 3, scene 1) by William Shakespeare
Originally posted by jimmyman99 The only people who benefit from SM are: - botters/farmers - hardcore people who can afford spending 5-15hours daily farming - rich people who can afford to purchase virtual items/money
The rest of people, noobs, raiders, groupers, purists, roleplayers, casuals are being hurt by these activities. Why? Becuase the in-game currency is being made more worthless, the larger amount of currency on hand - the more worthless it is. And that inflation makes prices to increase. So average consumer, the one that cant afford to farm or buy for real currency, is being hurt becuase suddenly everything is very expensive. Secondary market encourages to farm or to buy, and thats not what MMORPGs are about.
I never bought anything virtual for real money, and I refuse to play any game that promotes that activity, or doesnt do enough effort to halt that activity.
Your logic is flawed because you do not have a grasp on how economies work. The secondary market is not making counterfeit items and currency. In all mmo's the economies are flawed from the minute they open their doors to people because the game consistently and constantly produces money and items. If you had even taken econ1a then you would know that this will always lead to inflation. Also you fail to realize that people will farm not for the secondary market but for themselves becasue they want large bank accounts in games. I have a friend that on 3 accounts in SWG had every toon on our server maxed out monetarily, and this took him a total of 18months to accomplish through being a doctor selling buffpacks that he had crafted, then as a shipwright.
Because the games do not stop printing money there will always be inflation. As you said the more currency available the less valuable it is. Unfortunately for your agruement you are attempting to shuffle the blame off the developers where it belongs.
I stoped reading after the first 3 pages so sorry if I missed something that wasnt a rehash of what everyone else was saying.
I keep seeing people claim that the secondary market dosnt affect economies in game, some of these same people then say that it's ok for items to cost 10 times what they previously did because everything costs that much more.
Simple fact is this claim is stupid. Even when in game money is not duped/hacked before it is sold it has a large impact on the economy.
I could see the point of if the money is gained by the sellers the way the game intended it should be ok, except that when you consolidate millions of platinum (or other currency) in one place, prices will be driven way up. This is because now a select few people have the funds to stupidly spend way more then what an item is worth. When it comes to items it's much much worse.
Granted, a large number of sold items are gained thrue farming (this by itself can be annoying, but only slightly worse then someone farming to gain the item for themselves or friends) but in my experiences these people that are selling the items also buy them from other players. Since they have such large quantities of in game currency they run the prices of these items up in this way.
Now for the people that say that because of the inflation it's easier to gain all this money. This simply isnt true in most cases. Granted, the prices are increadibly high for items people want, but it's usually the top 10% of items that the prices become out of controll. All less desirable items are sold for the same amounts of money as before, so your stuck selling 10 times the items you would have needed to before, or slaughtering 10 times the creatures, or as a 3rd option you could spend hard earned money on in game currency.
Normally as more of an item comes into the economy the price will gradually drop as the market is flooded with these items before people can afford them. Because of the secondary market however the servers are flooded with items/money faster then intended, and they never see the ingame economy.
Since most people that purchase items with real money didnt have the game funds to get it the normal way the secondary market isnt relieveing the legitamit demand for this item, not only this but they are stunting the flow of the item into the economy. Because of this the price is driven even higher.
I may have missed some points, I may not have said everything perfectly, but if you can read that and still are not convinced that secondary markets have very large negative impacts on the economy of an MMORPG then you obviusly havnt played a good MMORPG.
(All of this argument is based on the assumption that you are talking about a game THAT DOES NOT SUPPORT a secondary market)
Beyond all of what I've said, it's against the EULA which you agree to when you play (and for damn good reason). Even if the selling of items/currency didnt effect a game negativly, if you agree to it when you log in you are in breech of contract so to speak.
Regardless of if EULA has been proven in court, it's thier game, it's thier servers, if your doing something they dont want you to do they should beable to disalow you from playing thier game. Very simple really.
As for those that say you purchased your cd, well grats, you own the cd. You still dont own the software.
---EDIT---
Yes, there will always be inflation, but you can not honestly say that the consolidation of millions of a games currency doesnt have an impact on prices, while everyone not involved in the secondary market is left behind. Especially if you know about economics as you claim =p
You speak of equality but equality also comes in the form of possesions. If someone buys some items with real money then it puts them on equal playing grounds with those who worked for those items. You dont want equality you just want to be better because you can spend more time playing than the other person. Besides, having fun is the point......... if you dont think it is then you shouldnt be playing games. I mean, cheating to have fun is crossing the line but having fun within the boundaries of the game is the whole point. So what if people buy items or money in game to be on a level playing ground with others who can spend more time playing. It doesnt affect the other people at all. I understand how buying maxed out characters causes others pain but just buying gold and items is not a problem.
Forget about real life, we are all playing these games to escape from real life, and nw you are telling me that a purchase with the money earned in real life should be effective in the games? I don't care how much a person works in real life, in his previous life .... A game world is an entity on its own, you cannot bring something alien to those worlds, I don't see the point in seeing rich people wondering around with the most precious pieces in the game. If they don't have the time to earn those items, they can play on seperate servers for RL money counts.
I never bought anything virtual for real money, and I refuse to play any game that promotes that activity, or doesnt do enough effort to halt that activity.
I noticed from your xfire signature that you play Guild Wars.
Guess you better remove that software from your hardrive. Click the ebay link:
Look all, I know it is an emotional issue. I don't like gold farmers either, but you will be hard pressed to find a MMORPG game that has been out for at least 6 months that doesn't have some kind of secondary market.
They dont encourage farming/botting in GW... its hard to know though since everything is instanced and theres no way to know whos botting and whos not. The economy is almost non-existant for that reason (I havent bought or sold anything to PCs since I started playing it), GW almost feels like a "single"-player game. Still, if they will encourage botting/farming in GW, im probably going to stop playing it, even if that will have little to no effect on me( becuase of the instancing ). I stopped playing EQ2 for that (and a few other) reason, and I will never play L2 becuase from what I hear, its full of farmers/botters.
The only way a secondary market is dissolve is when people stop buying their products.
That will never happen. People will always try to ignore/bypass rules and play unfarily for different reasons ( to be #1, too lazy to level, too rich to care about money, etc ).
Do gold farmers spoil my gaming? Only if I want them to. They camping a spot I desire, I can find another. Is a virutal item sooo valuable to me that I will cancel my subscription? Doubtful. However, if the game design hinges on that item then the developers have created the secondary market because they made a demand for an item that is essential for the continued enjoyment of their game.
Think about it this way, lets say a game u play has 100 levels, it takes u 5 months to get to level 100. It takes 3 weeks for a botter to get to that same level. When u started playing at level 1, the armor for level 100 char would cost u 1000 gold. 5 months later, when u reached 1000, you managed to gather 900 gold, you borrowed 100 more from a friend(s), but you cant buy the armor becuase it now costs 2000 gold. The reason you dont have 2000 gold becuase your primary objective was leveling, and not farming. And since the inflation caused by farmers raised all prices, but at the same time mobs still drop same 5-10 gold per mob, you CANT get those extra 1000 gold without farming yourself OR purchasing that gold. They are FORCING you to either become like them or give in and buy their gold.
I am no lawyer, but I suspect the developers meetings with their lawyers have topics such as:
- If we are going to prosecute someone what have they stolen?
Nah, never gonna happen. At best, they will ban your account. You are breaking their rules, not the rules of your country. If I have a private property and I say you HAVE to take off your shoes when coming into my house, the worst thing I can do is NOT let u in. I cant go to court and you wont go to jail..
- If we are to take someone to court, what law has been broken?
read above
- If we are to sue this company, what financial damage has your business suffered as a result of this activity?
read above
- If someone countersues us, what could they claim?
read above
The great frontier is the internet and it will be interesting to see what will transpires.
Yup. Right now im mostly playing single player games and CS+GW from online games. Im awaiting for a number of MMORPGs in development and I hope companies will take greater action in tracking down and eliminating botters/farmers. Better yet, I hope they will design a game where botting/farming will be reduntant and unnecessary.
Note, despite many complaints regarding gold farmers, it will not be until the majority of subscribers are miffed about it so that loss subscription numbers are demonstrable enough that the gaming company will have a case. Now to prove which company caused the revenue loss...
Unfortunately, its extremely hard to know why population is decreasing and not increasing. Is it becuase of farmers? Lack of content? Too much grind? Best example (with worst case botter/farmer scenario), IMO, Is L2. I visit their forums often and L2 seems to have the worst case of bot-infestation. So does L2 pop decrease becuase of that (or does it decrease at all?)? or becuase L2 is very grinding in lower to mid level ranges? Or is it becuase the crafting is limited to dwarves? Or is becuase the monthly price is too high? Who knows. Maybe 1, maybe 2, maybe all of them, or maybe none of them.
PS: Ive read crazy stories from L2 players regarding botting in L2. People would want to come back to L2 or start a new char to see the follofing picture. A number of characters with weird names like "asdsgfa" spawning in starting town, attacking nearest guard, dying immediately, respawning again and so on so on. Iver never seen this in GW or any other game so this looks extreme to me. Ive heard rumors that NCSoft has a 10% share in the gold selling company so thats why they do much to deal with botters/gold sellers in their games.
People backing RL money purchasable game content please answer this question:
Would you be playing the game on a special server that you can purchase in game money with RealLife money, where the same game also has servers that you cannot purchase anything with RealLife money?
Originally posted by Shadukar We all know the problem, and we all see that as something diferant. right or wrong the secondary market was not something originaly intended in most cases by the comanies that produce make and market the games. The simplest and easies solution to the issue is this.... All items gold included in any MMOG should be "BOUND" to the character that looted them... The only way they could be traded was with an Auction type method in game... there would need to be some fine tuning but in the end making all in game trades only through an auction system, then ingame gold wouldn't really mean anything nor would how much gold one character has... with nothing to sell in the secondary because you can't trade, then the secondary market would disapear from that game... given that the "no-trade" system was implimented correctly.
And this does nothing but make life more miserable for the honest players. One of the benefits of guilds is to be able to receive items to help your class help the guild as a whole at either discount or for free. Why should honest players that are loaning a guildie 1000g for epic mount training have to go buy an item on auction with the AH taking a percentage? You are in the middle of a raid and you run out of potions. Ok everyone stop the raid, joe and sally have to run back to the city so sally can auction off her potions to joe and hope that someone outside the guild doesnt buy them before him.
While the secondary market would easily work their way around this. Put up a piece of leather on the ah for an exhorbitant price. As a matter of fact I believe that is precisely how the farmer bosses collect money from their underlings in world of warcraft. When you see 1 piece of light leather for sale for 5000gp then you know that someone in a few hours, an employee, is going to go up there and buy that leather as a way of turning in his gold to his boss.
Originally posted by oramio People backing RL money purchasable game content please answer this question:
Would you be playing the game on a special server that you can purchase in game money with RealLife money, where the same game also has servers that you cannot purchase anything with RealLife money?
Thanks
I guess I am in the backing RL money camp, even though it is not something I have done myself. Sure I would play on that server, doesnt matter to me. But if I did play on that server then I could sell the items I made or found for real money. Sounds like a win win scenario to me But with that said I do play eq2 but not on a station exchange server because I am a roleplayer.
Originally posted by severius Originally posted by oramio People backing RL money purchasable game content please answer this question:
Would you be playing the game on a special server that you can purchase in game money with RealLife money, where the same game also has servers that you cannot purchase anything with RealLife money?
Thanks
I guess I am in the backing RL money camp, even though it is not something I have done myself. Sure I would play on that server, doesnt matter to me. But if I did play on that server then I could sell the items I made or found for real money. Sounds like a win win scenario to me But with that said I do play eq2 but not on a station exchange server because I am a roleplayer.
If a virtual item has a monetary value, the game producer is accountable for ensuring the security of the virtual property, much like a bank must secure the electronic funds in your bank account. To do this, banks pay for expensive insurance policies and even more expensive database and security systems to ensure the safety of everyones virtual/digital money. The secondary market assumes zero risk and zero responsibility, leaving the game developer holding the legal and financial bag for the loss of a virtual item which the secondary market is driving/setting the fair market value for.
Hence, game developers will not acknowledge the validity of a secondary market. Doing so would set legal precedence for assigning a virtual item a real world dollar value. Instead, most game devleopers, whose products were not designed with a business model of selling virtual items specifically state that all virtual goods are the sole property of the company, and thus have no real world value.
Comments
This comment made me laugh.
Maybe YOU are the spoiled brat. Not everything in life can be purchased. And yes, you SHOULD have to do exactly what I did to get my epic sword... that's the point of the game. If you cheat, and take shortcuts, it destroys the value of the sword, and the overall enjoyment of the game as a whole.
As for the comment about "the fun of those who bought the stuff," I couldn't really care less. Those of us who followed the rules (read: non-cheaters) have a right to enjoy our game, a right which is fundamentally greater than yours. Take your credit card elsewhere.
I got only one thing to say about RMT
stop hogging the damn Mobs, fish to your hearts content couldnt care less plenty of fish out there
You camping Spook because its and easy kill and its drops a cloak most people are happy to pay 50K for? maybe i can actually kill that myself and want to get it without paying for it but one question
How the hell am i gonna get it when you got so many third party programs running you can claim and kill it faster than it takes me to blink!!!
This is the huge downside to RMT,
I play FFXI and the influx of RMT's using bots not only screws the economy it screws the conquest section of the game
Just after SE banned thousands of accounts the Training areas (Dunes, Garlaige Citadel, Qufim) became over run by RMT's leveling chars to sell on for more money
This leaves new players sitting around unable to do anything because RMT's are pwning all the mobs
Imagine you have spent months playing the game, working your way up to being able to kill the mob for the first time only to find you cant because an RMT/BOT has taken to camping and claiming the items it drops ,
At one point me and my LS made a point of running round with Blaze Spikes on casting high level heals to aggro the mobs just so the RMT lost their XP and drops, god bet they loved that
Suffice to say i dont mind RMT, wouldnt ever use them because i get more pride working my way up to the items i want but i DESPISE RMT when they take over an area and stop me progressing
However i did have chat with RMT at one camp and he spoke english, asked if i was after drop and when i said i was because i was more than capable of killing it he gave me the Mob to kill with out claiming it
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/ab/Norsefire-logo.png
I have to say that Roger Kipe must be so out of touch with gaming that I bet he doesn't even play one. Play for fun I mean.
The Secondary Market is bad for games. Players are now competing with gold farmers for ingame resources. Before, a player would get what they wanted and move on. Now there could be a farmer bot in the same spot 24/7 essentially barring a legitimate player from getting what they want.
SOE making the Exchange only compounded the issue. They now "legitimized" this Secondary Market so they could make a few more bucks. What happend to the SOE hell bent on suing Ebay for selling EQ1 accounts? Now they are doing the same thing.
Not to mention that it throws game balance out of whack. In theory if Rich Kid wants to he can have Rich Daddy buy him everything in the game. In order to get those items they had to be farmed away from legitimate players by a bot. It also trivializes what the hardcore raiders accomplish, they spend many weeks trying to get a set of gear and Rich Kid just flashes Daddy's MasterCard and gets the same in an hour. The excessive farming aslo can throw the ingame economies askew with some items flooding the brokers/auction houses and others being nearly non-existant due to over farming.
So hard to make this a legal issue as the games are played all over the world. Make it illegal in USA but what can you do to the Korean guy who sells to a German kid?
Roger Kipe strikes me as the type that would be an ambulance chaser lawyer. All he cares about is making the quick buck and to hell with anyone who suffers for it. The example of capitalism at its worst.
- botters/farmers
- hardcore people who can afford spending 5-15hours daily farming
- rich people who can afford to purchase virtual items/money
The rest of people, noobs, raiders, groupers, purists, roleplayers,
casuals are being hurt by these activities. Why? Becuase the in-game
currency is being made more worthless, the larger amount of currency on
hand - the more worthless it is. And that inflation makes prices to
increase. So average consumer, the one that cant afford to farm or buy
for real currency, is being hurt becuase suddenly everything is very
expensive. Secondary market encourages to farm or to buy, and thats not
what MMORPGs are about.
I never bought anything virtual for real money, and I refuse to play
any game that promotes that activity, or doesnt do enough effort to
halt that activity.
I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.
Actually the fact that I work 40 hours a week for my rl money makes sure that I don't spend it on something as silly as items in a game. Surely, you family could benefit alot more from that rl $100 you spend on $1 mil of in-game money.
Anyways, lets apply this dynamic to your RL job--You go to work 40 hours a week and work your butt off. Even if your job is boring or repititive you work hard at it anyways because you know its gonna pay off eventually. Now say a woman who doesn't always show up and never works sleeps with the boss. She gets a promotion. Sure her banging the boss doesn't effect you. But guess what you're gonna be pissed because you tried to get that promotion and you tried to do it by the rules.
Ultimately, you will hate this woman and eventually seek a new job. This is EXACTLY what happens in MMOs, and no matter how many ppl say, "She just did what she had to do to keep up", and "this doesn't effect other employees". You will always know that as BS, making any arguements that say otherwise moot.
I noticed from your xfire signature that you play Guild Wars.
Guess you better remove that software from your hardrive. Click the ebay link:
http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?MfcISAPICommand=GetResult&ht=1&shortcut=0&from=R41&query=guild+wars&category0=
Look all, I know it is an emotional issue. I don't like gold farmers either, but you will be hard pressed to find a MMORPG game that has been out for at least 6 months that doesn't have some kind of secondary market. The only way a secondary market is dissolve is when people stop buying their products. Do gold farmers spoil my gaming? Only if I want them to. They camping a spot I desire, I can find another. Is a virutal item sooo valuable to me that I will cancel my subscription? Doubtful. However, if the game design hinges on that item then the developers have created the secondary market because they made a demand for an item that is essential for the continued enjoyment of their game.
I am no lawyer, but I suspect the developers meetings with their lawyers have topics such as:
- If we are going to prosecute someone what have they stolen?
- If we are to take someone to court, what law has been broken?
- If we are to sue this company, what financial damage has your business suffered as a result of this activity?
- If someone countersues us, what could they claim?
The great frontier is the internet and it will be interesting to see what will transpires.
Note, despite many complaints regarding gold farmers, it will not be until the majority of subscribers are miffed about it so that loss subscription numbers are demonstrable enough that the gaming company will have a case. Now to prove which company caused the revenue loss...
I'm seeing the word "cheat" way too many times. Using a secondary market is not by any measure of the word cheating.
Lets look at some facts by starting with what Mr. Webster has to say about the word cheat.
Main Entry: 1cheat
Pronunciation:
'chEtFunction: verb
Etymology: 2cheat
transitive verb
1 : to deprive of something valuable by the use of deceit or fraud
2 : to influence or lead by deceit, trick, or artifice
3 : to elude or thwart by or as if by outwitting <cheat death>
intransitive verb
1 a : to practice fraud or trickery b : to violate rules dishonestly <cheat at cards> <cheating on a test>
2 : to be sexually unfaithful -- usually used with on cheating on his wife>
3 : to position oneself defensively near a particular area in anticipation of a play in that area cheating toward second base>
So lets take this as an example. If I were to buy 10pp in EQ2 from someone selling it for real money which one of the above would I be doing? Well, it's not the first one because I've not deprived anyone else from obtaining 10pp and there is no deceit or fraud involved because both parties are willing parties in this transaction. Lets try the next one. Well, no, this one doesnt work either. Humm. Ok lets try the third one. Darn this one doesn't apply either as well as all the rest. Why? Because it's not cheating. The ONLY thing secondary markets do from a business standpoint is cause companies who do not embrace it to miss out on some extra cash flow. Sony saw this and did the only thing it could do - joined in!
As much as I know some of you feel so strongly against buying and selling items and coin for real world money you cannot classify this action as cheating. It simply and factually does not apply.
Sidenote:
Merv808 can I have some of what your smoking? The topic isnt sleeping with your boss to get ahead. If I bought 10pp to advance my character it's my choice and my money. The only way it might affect you is if it were the only 10pp in the game. As for you putting your $100 to use for your family, thats awesome, but what is good for you and yours is different for me and mine. My wife for example collects Barbie dolls - to me a total waste of money - but to her they are treasured items. My point is people are just different and whats good for one person isn't good for another.
Oh did you know that yesterday my character passed by your character? I even said hello! Everything on my character and all the money it had on it was bought using real money. Did me running by you ruin the game for you? Bet you didnt even notice me.
for the gaming community, it's bad regardless of whether it's being run
by a third party or the company that owns the game. I suppose an
argument could be made that gold farmers infest the game's population
as poor social players, but I've personally never run into a single one
that I know of.
I see the secondary market as inevitable, but I think the game
companies should bear no responsibility for lost items. If someone is
willing to pay real money for a virtual weapon that's lost, deleted,
broken or nerfed, it's the buyer's problem. The game company wasn't a
party to the transaction and offered no guarantee that the item would
continue to exist or function as expected.
People like you will always try and mold something to suit thier need. I ask you though - which topic do you want to debate? Does it hurt in game? does it hurt a companies bottom line? How to sleep with your boss and get ahead (pun intended)?
EULA are there to protect the company and has no bearing on if it hurts you in game or not.
Interesting debate between the two. To many MMORPG's are item centric. But personally I see no difference purchasing gold or and item than ( Me a high level player ) giving my lower level character gold or items. Point is it was all farmed and earned either by me or some one else. Now having it 'Botted' for me by a macroed group as what I've come across in EQ II is different story and all together wrong. But then again it's the game designers fault for allowing that to happen with macro commands and such. Where as I can see where some may say that it ruins the economy by buying and selling items or gold. I look at the player base more to be at fault for the simple reason of greed by a player who plays the game.I can't count the times I've seen level 30 items sell for triple the price of a level 60 item. People have and will continue to put outrages prices on items even if there wasn't a way to buy gold farmed items. Guess what I'm trying to say is how much of a price can you put on an item be it a rare or not that costs you nothing but your in game leisure time to collect it?
"I want to be a kickass football player. But you know, i don't really have the time. I'm working this job, and between that and having relationships, i just don't have time to really, seriously work out. And you need to work out to get the muscles to be decent at sports. /Sigh. What am i to do?
I know, I'll buy Steroids! Its not fair that other people who have more time or more of a passion for the game get to do so well and i don't. Its just a game, I just want to have fun so why is it wrong for me to do whatever i want? I'll just buy steroids with money that I earned from my job! Its my money, i should be able to buy whatever i want with it."
Not a great example, cause a lot of football players do use steroids but thats just to make money from advertising, etc, things that no gamer is ever going to get. For people who only play sports for fun theres a lot less steroid use. And thats what MMO's are, games people play to have fun. Being good at it should come from putting the time in. People who don't have to put the time or work in diminish the accomplishment of anything in a game.
People like you will always try and mold something to suit thier need. I ask you though - which topic do you want to debate? Does it hurt in game? does it hurt a companies bottom line? How to sleep with your boss and get ahead (pun intended)?
EULA are there to protect the company and has no bearing on if it hurts you in game or not.
HUH!? When I made the workplace analogy...I was making a point. Something you failed to do with your webster definition. Thats not me molding anything. Seeing as how you haven't advanced the debate at all. (That last post made no sense whatsoever.) I'll wait for someone that actually has something to bring to the table.
11 pages of posts..many speaking about the "inflation" caused by farmers raising the costs of in game items. But no one seems to remember that in most games, farmers don't just get "gold" as their drops, they frequently get rare, low-drop rate items which they make available for sale on the open market.
The fact they play 18 hours a day means they are more likely to get such rare drops than an average 2-3 hr a day player. So if we relied on average players, rare items would be...really rare. So in a way, farmers help the gaming experience by making rare items more available, and probably (cause I can't prove this, but neither can the other side) lowers the cost of such rare items.
If a game is designed properly, in game money can have little effect. (WOW does a pretty good job at minimizing the impact of farmers in this regard...though the post with the potion example was a possible scenario,but not one I've really ever witnessed)
As to the argument that RMT is cheating...hey, I drive faster than the posted speed limit, jaywalk, lie about where I live so my kids can go to a better school, tell my wife that "its not really a new headset, just looks different", drank lots of alcohol before I reached the age of 21 etc etc. There might be one or two of you out there who never break any of life's rules (or even laws) but most can't say that.
So if there's a cheat/loophole (that's not really even illegal) that permits people to obtain in game items for real life cash (which could be coded against) why wouldn't people take advantage of it?
After all, it is only a game.....
and never forget...
Murphy's Golden Rule:
"Whoever has the gold makes the rules"
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I'll try this again to see if anyone has any thoughts.
A
virtual item is essentailly nothing more than a few hundred bytes of
storage space which are converted to electrons, shipped around the
world and then displayed through a software application. They
have no monitary value. If a game developer publically approves
of a secondary market which applies a real world dollar value to a
virtual item; or if that developer sells an item for real world money;
the developer can be sued for the fair market value of those few
hundred bytes of storage. If they change a couple of those bytes
and the item now behaves differently, or should they lose the data and
are unable to recover it, they can be held legally accountable.
Why would a game developer, set themselves up for a class action law
suit over allowing their intellectual property to be assigned a real
world value by a third party?
If anyone is interested check out some of the following links on the topic:
Game Law Blog
http://www.golem.de/0503/36932.html
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/12/17/tycoon_buys_non_existent_island/
http://www.indicare.org/tiki-read_article.php?articleID-104
http://web.si.umich.edu/tprc/papers/2004/382/ppr%20Korea%2008%20TPRC%20final%20revised.pdf
http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=555661
http://digital-lifestyles.info/display_page.asp?section=business&id=2061
http://www.secretlair.com/index.php?/clickableculture/entry/real_world_lawyer_files_suit_against_virtual_world_maker/
http://mmorpg.qj.net/Online-gamer-wins-lawsuit-for-virtual-damage/pg/49/aid/74225
"Cry havoc, and let slip the dogs of war!"
Julius Caesar (Act 3, scene 1) by William Shakespeare
Because the games do not stop printing money there will always be inflation. As you said the more currency available the less valuable it is. Unfortunately for your agruement you are attempting to shuffle the blame off the developers where it belongs.
http://www.speedtest.net/result/7300033012
I stoped reading after the first 3 pages so sorry if I missed something that wasnt a rehash of what everyone else was saying.
I keep seeing people claim that the secondary market dosnt affect economies in game, some of these same people then say that it's ok for items to cost 10 times what they previously did because everything costs that much more.
Simple fact is this claim is stupid. Even when in game money is not duped/hacked before it is sold it has a large impact on the economy.
I could see the point of if the money is gained by the sellers the way the game intended it should be ok, except that when you consolidate millions of platinum (or other currency) in one place, prices will be driven way up. This is because now a select few people have the funds to stupidly spend way more then what an item is worth. When it comes to items it's much much worse.
Granted, a large number of sold items are gained thrue farming (this by itself can be annoying, but only slightly worse then someone farming to gain the item for themselves or friends) but in my experiences these people that are selling the items also buy them from other players. Since they have such large quantities of in game currency they run the prices of these items up in this way.
Now for the people that say that because of the inflation it's easier to gain all this money. This simply isnt true in most cases. Granted, the prices are increadibly high for items people want, but it's usually the top 10% of items that the prices become out of controll. All less desirable items are sold for the same amounts of money as before, so your stuck selling 10 times the items you would have needed to before, or slaughtering 10 times the creatures, or as a 3rd option you could spend hard earned money on in game currency.
Normally as more of an item comes into the economy the price will gradually drop as the market is flooded with these items before people can afford them. Because of the secondary market however the servers are flooded with items/money faster then intended, and they never see the ingame economy.
Since most people that purchase items with real money didnt have the game funds to get it the normal way the secondary market isnt relieveing the legitamit demand for this item, not only this but they are stunting the flow of the item into the economy. Because of this the price is driven even higher.
I may have missed some points, I may not have said everything perfectly, but if you can read that and still are not convinced that secondary markets have very large negative impacts on the economy of an MMORPG then you obviusly havnt played a good MMORPG.
(All of this argument is based on the assumption that you are talking about a game THAT DOES NOT SUPPORT a secondary market)
Beyond all of what I've said, it's against the EULA which you agree to when you play (and for damn good reason).
Even if the selling of items/currency didnt effect a game negativly, if you agree to it when you log in you are in breech of contract so to speak.
Regardless of if EULA has been proven in court, it's thier game, it's thier servers, if your doing something they dont want you to do they should beable to disalow you from playing thier game. Very simple really.
As for those that say you purchased your cd, well grats, you own the cd. You still dont own the software.
---EDIT---
Yes, there will always be inflation, but you can not honestly say that the consolidation of millions of a games currency doesnt have an impact on prices, while everyone not involved in the secondary market is left behind. Especially if you know about economics as you claim =p
I noticed from your xfire signature that you play Guild Wars.
Guess you better remove that software from your hardrive. Click the ebay link:
http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?MfcISAPICommand=GetResult&ht=1&shortcut=0&from=R41&query=guild+wars&category0=
Look
all, I know it is an emotional issue. I don't like gold farmers either,
but you will be hard pressed to find a MMORPG game that has been out
for at least 6 months that doesn't have some kind of secondary market.
They dont
encourage farming/botting in GW... its hard to know though since
everything is instanced and
theres no way to know whos botting and whos not. The economy is almost
non-existant for that reason (I havent bought or sold anything to PCs
since I
started playing it), GW almost feels like a "single"-player game.
Still, if they will encourage botting/farming in GW, im probably going
to stop
playing it, even if that will have little to no effect on me( becuase
of the instancing ). I stopped playing EQ2 for that (and a few other)
reason,
and I will never play L2 becuase from what I hear, its full of
farmers/botters.
The only way a secondary market is dissolve is when people stop buying their products.
That will
never happen. People will always try to ignore/bypass rules and play
unfarily for different reasons ( to be #1, too lazy to level, too rich
to care about money, etc ).
Do gold farmers spoil my gaming? Only if I want them to. They
camping a spot I desire, I can find another. Is a virutal item sooo
valuable to me that I will cancel my subscription? Doubtful. However,
if the game design hinges on that item then the developers have created
the secondary market because they made a demand for an item that
is essential for the continued enjoyment of their game.
Think
about it this way, lets say a game u play has 100 levels, it takes u 5
months to get to level 100. It takes 3 weeks for a botter to get to
that same level. When u started playing at level 1, the armor for level
100 char would cost u 1000 gold. 5 months later, when u reached 1000,
you managed to gather 900 gold, you borrowed 100 more from a friend(s),
but you cant buy the armor becuase it now costs 2000 gold. The reason
you dont have 2000 gold becuase your primary objective was leveling,
and not farming. And since the inflation caused by farmers raised all
prices, but at the same time mobs still drop same 5-10 gold per mob,
you CANT get those extra 1000 gold without farming yourself OR
purchasing that gold. They are FORCING you to either become like them
or give in and buy their gold.
I am no lawyer, but I suspect the developers meetings with their lawyers have topics such as:
- If we are going to prosecute someone what have they stolen?
Nah,
never gonna happen. At best, they will ban your account. You are
breaking their rules, not the rules of your country. If I have a
private property and I say you HAVE to take off your shoes when coming
into my house, the worst thing I can do is NOT let u in. I cant go to
court and you wont go to jail..
- If we are to take someone to court, what law has been broken?
read above
- If we are to sue this company, what financial damage has your business suffered as a result of this activity?
read above
- If someone countersues us, what could they claim?
read above
The great frontier is the internet and it will be interesting to see what will transpires.
Yup.
Right now im mostly playing single player games and CS+GW from online
games. Im awaiting for a number of MMORPGs in development and I hope
companies will take greater action in tracking down and eliminating
botters/farmers. Better yet, I hope they will design a game where
botting/farming will be reduntant and unnecessary.
Note, despite many complaints regarding gold farmers, it will
not be until the majority of subscribers are miffed about it so that
loss subscription numbers are demonstrable enough that the gaming
company will have a case. Now to prove which company caused the revenue
loss...
Unfortunately,
its extremely hard to know why population is decreasing and not
increasing. Is it becuase of farmers? Lack of content? Too much grind?
Best example (with worst case botter/farmer scenario), IMO, Is L2. I
visit their forums often and L2 seems to have the worst case of
bot-infestation. So does L2 pop decrease becuase of that (or does it
decrease at all?)? or becuase L2 is very grinding in lower to mid level
ranges? Or is it becuase the crafting is limited to dwarves? Or is
becuase the monthly price is too high? Who knows. Maybe 1, maybe 2,
maybe all of them, or maybe none of them.
PS:
Ive read crazy stories from L2 players regarding botting in L2. People
would want to come back to L2 or start a new char to see the
follofing picture. A number of characters with weird names like
"asdsgfa" spawning in starting town, attacking nearest guard, dying
immediately, respawning again and so on so on. Iver never seen this in
GW or any other game so this looks extreme to me. Ive heard rumors that
NCSoft has a 10% share in the gold selling company so thats why they do
much to deal with botters/gold sellers in their games.
I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.
Would you be playing the game on a special server that you can purchase in game money with RealLife money, where the same game also has servers that you cannot purchase anything with RealLife money?
Thanks
While the secondary market would easily work their way around this. Put up a piece of leather on the ah for an exhorbitant price. As a matter of fact I believe that is precisely how the farmer bosses collect money from their underlings in world of warcraft. When you see 1 piece of light leather for sale for 5000gp then you know that someone in a few hours, an employee, is going to go up there and buy that leather as a way of turning in his gold to his boss.
http://www.speedtest.net/result/7300033012
http://www.speedtest.net/result/7300033012
Fair answer, no objection to that
accountable for ensuring the security of the virtual property, much
like a bank must secure the electronic funds in your bank
account. To do this, banks pay for expensive insurance policies
and even more expensive database and security systems to ensure the
safety of everyones virtual/digital money. The secondary market
assumes zero risk and zero responsibility, leaving the game developer
holding the legal and financial bag for the loss of a virtual item
which the secondary market is driving/setting the fair market value for.
Hence, game developers will not acknowledge the validity of a secondary
market. Doing so would set legal precedence for assigning a
virtual item a real world dollar value. Instead, most game
devleopers, whose products were not designed with a business model of
selling virtual items specifically state that all virtual goods are the
sole property of the company, and thus have no real world value.