Here's the thing.Console games dont last....at all.When the 1st ps2's came on the market sony created a HIGH demand for them by not manufacturing enough of them.I know a friend of mine that has to be the 1st kid on the block to have the new toys.He paid at least 700 bucks for the thing.That was just with 2 games and 2 controllers.
Flash forward a few years and guess what?Sony and microsoft are in a price war.Xbox is now 150 dollars with ps2 to follow very very soon.BTW not man y know this but when the ps2 launched a few days later they copyrighted the name playstation3 and ps3.com etc etc.The console market is for children not grownups.
Sony and nintendo and now microsoft manufacture console games to last 5 years or so thats it.Eqoa is eq lite from what ive heard . Do you think sony will continue to support that through the ps3?Sure they will but ya got to buy a whole new system and more software for it.
I built my pc 2 years ago and it can still run multiple programs at the same time.I can upgrade my video card if need be.I can store pictures on it.My whole system is upgradeable for that matter.Even if we could upgrade a console system (wich is what manufacturers should be doing any way with 3rd party developers so you could at least get a higher end video card on a ps3 or something)what would be the point if a pc can out perform it in everything else?
I am running an Althon XP 1800 1.5ghz, it's outdated. A 733mhz CHEAP ASS Celeron is totally outdated. Celerons suck in the first place. I wouldn't take a free computer that had a celeron. Even so, it's running a P3.
When you're not running a OS and no other operations and the biggest vid card of the time of it's release, sure, not a problem. Well... they are running an OS but it's the equivelent of a Floppy Disk Linux.
Originally posted by Thehollow Here's the thing.Console games dont last....at all.
Not real sure what this is uppose to mean. All of my games have lasted, none have broke... If you mean consoles don't last, mine has been working for 2 years or so now. There are still new games coming out for it, many many new games each month. Hard to keep up with them all.
When the 1st ps2's came on the market sony created a HIGH demand for them by not manufacturing enough of them.I know a friend of mine that has to be the 1st kid on the block to have the new toys.He paid at least 700 bucks for the thing.That was just with 2 games and 2 controllers.
Shows how popular they are... Is this a dig against consoles? Not sure how...
Flash forward a few years and guess what?Sony and microsoft are in a price war.Xbox is now 150 dollars with ps2 to follow very very soon.
Good for the consumer... What has this got to do with PCs being better than consoles? Show me a $150 PC... Can't can ya? Especially not one that can play decent games.
BTW not man y know this but when the ps2 launched a few days later they copyrighted the name playstation3 and ps3.com etc etc.
Your point is???
The console market is for children not grownups.
Really, damn. I'm 32... Thank god I have 2 kids. It's for the kids, I swear...
Sony and nintendo and now microsoft manufacture console games to last 5 years or so thats it.
Good, I would hate to have to buy a new one every year... Kinda like buying a new video card every year... Hmmm...
Eqoa is eq lite from what ive heard . Do you think sony will continue to support that through the ps3?Sure they will but ya got to buy a whole new system and more software for it.
MMORPG's on consoles are slowly coming to bear... Just need a little time. It is a very young market. But, the potential is HUGE for the first developer to get it right on a console...
I built my pc 2 years ago and it can still run multiple programs at the same time.
So can my computer. What is the point of that statement? We are proving that the console is a better gaming platform, not a better PC.
I can upgrade my video card if need be.
Sure glad I don't have to spend money upgrading parts on my console. Since it can't be upgraded, I know any game that comes out for the XBox will run on my XBox. What is this? An advantage consoles have over PCs?!?! Do you think?!?!
I can store pictures on it.
I can store PCs on my PC too. Again, consoles are gamiong devices. What debate are you arguing? Don't even get me started on my Mod Chip anyway...
My whole system is upgradeable for that matter.Even if we could upgrade a console system (wich is what manufacturers should be doing any way with 3rd party developers so you could at least get a higher end video card on a ps3 or something)what would be the point if a pc can out perform it in everything else?
Again, not having to upgrade is an advantage the console has, not a disadvantage. I would hate for a game to come out that required me to purchase an upgrade for my Xbox. That would be a bad thing. The graphics that are coming out of the latest XBox games are great. And they will only be better on the Xbox 2. I can't wait.
You can't win this debate, you are on the wrong side.
Originally posted by ianubisi When they start releasing the types of games I like to play on consoles, and not on PCs, then I'll agree with you.
This could never happen, since consoles are PC lites. Their market are people to young to deal with PC's, or those with to short of a attention span to wait for a PC to boot.
Although technically, most consoles "could" play many current PC games if you had the HDD/keyboard/network, and a little tweaking of it's OS.
If PC game CD's where made bootable, they too would effectively be Consoles.
-=-=-=-=- Make no mistake, MMORPG's are not games, they are hobbies. If you have a job, you'll need to give up watching TV in order to play one. You'll be better off for it.
Bartle: A: 93% E: 55% S:3% K: 50% The Test. Learn what it means here.
-=-=-=-=- Achievers realise that killers as a concept are necessary in order to make achievement meaningful and worthwhile (there being no way to "lose" the game if any fool can "win" just by plodding slowly unchallenged). -bartle
Bartle: A: 93% E: 55% S:3% K: 50% The Test. Learn what it means here.
Originally posted by SnaKey <Snipped a whole bunch of useless information...>As I said. A console is an Outdated PC.
A console is a computer that plays games, a PC is a general purpose computer, an ATM is a computer, most modern cars have computers in them, blah, blah, blah. A console is a computer, not a PC.
A console is a computer that is built for the purpose of playing games. Because it has this sole purpose, it is very good at it.
My PC is way better than yours, but I can tell you that the XBox is a much more efficient game playing computer. The PC may be able to play games that are better than the XBox graphically, but my PC also cost a hell of a lot more money.
Console advantages:
No installations. No worries about driver issues. No worries about compatibility. No IRQ issues. Game rentals (try renting a PC game, it is against the law if you don't know). Knowing the game is going to work as expected. Connects to a 56" screen. Knowing the person I am playing against online is using the same hardware as me.
A console is a computer that plays games, a PC is a general purpose computer, an ATM is a computer, most modern cars have computers in them, blah, blah, blah. A console is a computer, not a PC. A console is a computer that is built for the purpose of playing games. Because it has this sole purpose, it is very good at it. My PC is way better than yours, but I can tell you that the XBox is a much more efficient game playing computer. The PC may be able to play games that are better than the XBox graphically, but my PC also cost a hell of a lot more money. Console advantages: No installations. No worries about driver issues. No worries about compatibility. No IRQ issues. Game rentals (try renting a PC game, it is against the law if you don't know). Knowing the game is going to work as expected. Connects to a 56" screen. Knowing the person I am playing against online is using the same hardware as me.
A Gaming machine isn't a General Application Machine. A gaming machine is made for gaming, but alot better than a Console.
Using a gaming machine for nothing but MS Office is like killing an Ant w/ a 200mt H-Bomb.
You can connect a PC to a TV.
You can't build a Console either. When I built my PC it was pretty much the best you could buy. An alienware cost $5000 w/ the exact same specs, where as I built my PC w/ a 17" Monitor for $1000... and that's using nothing but top of the line parts that only an Alienware could compare w/. I have built PCs for under $500 w/ monitors (wich is one of the most expensive parts) that HP sold for $1500.
Originally posted by Clever_Glove This could never happen, since consoles are PC lites. Their market are people to young to deal with PC's, or those with to short of a attention span to wait for a PC to boot.
Not stereotyping are you?!?! I am 32 years old, I am a Network Manager who builds and operates the most powerful PCs on the market. And I consider myself in the market for consoles. Consoles do what they do well. End of story.
Although technically, most consoles "could" play many current PC games if you had the HDD/keyboard/network, and a little tweaking of it's OS.
Many current PC games are on consoles. Alien vs. Predator, Unreal 2004, Need For speed UnderGround, Madden 2004... etc, etc, etc...
If PC game CD's where made bootable, they too would effectively be Consoles.
What would a bootable game CD for a PC do? Boot right into the setup program
And here you have pointed out another benefit of console games. Almost all PC games come on 1 or 2 CDs. While my Xbox games come on a DVD, equivalent to about 6 times the data of 1 CD. No wonder we get such good conent on the XBox.
Originally posted by SnaKey A Gaming machine isn't a General Application Machine. A gaming machine is made for gaming, but alot better than a Console. Using a gaming machine for nothing but MS Office is like killing an Ant w/ a 200mt H-Bomb.
Are you saying you can't run Word on your Gaming PC??? You can. I am saying I can't run Word on my Xbox. One is made for gaming, the other is a general purpose computer.
The operating system on the Xbox was made for gaming only. The OS on your PC was not.
And just so you know, there are PCs built to do stuff that your "gaming PC" couldn't touch. Those PCs would play your games blazingly fast, but nobody would use a $15000+ PC to play a game.
Originally posted by SnaKey Microsoft Xbox(2001) GraphicsNVIDIA XGPU233MHz 1.9G Texels/Sec 3.7G Samples/Sec DX8 Shaders 80 GFLOPS 106M Vertices/Sec Compression FSAA 32-bit Color 6.4 GB/sec BusAs I said. A console is an Outdated PC.
It may be an outdated PC, but it's an outdated PC that costs $150. Let's look at an outdated video card that costs $150:
Geforce 4 A170 DDR-T (64MB) Clock 270MHz Fill Rate(texels/sec.) 1.1 billion Memory Bandwidth 6.4GB/sec Microsoft DirectX 8.1 and OpenGL 1.3 ICD Optimizations and support 113 million vertices/sec
Hmm, not much difference between the $150 (you might find it for $99 or less) video card and a $150 console. But the video card still needs the rest of the computer while the console just needs a TV. I'm sure you have a TV already, right?
Console = 3rd person point of view games. More limited controls than a PC. Unupgradeable. <--- let me rephrase this. You MUST upgrade it every 4 years when they come out with the new version. You must also purchase 4 of them to play all the titles available. Oh wait, I forgot Gameboys and n-gage style hand held consoles.
Okay, enter online gaming. Now here comes more costs. Get online with your 4 different kinds of consoles, all hooked up to your one tv and one internet connection. Pay your exclusive charges for access to their servers. Only SOME pc games require this top play online.
Sure a console can play games well. Sure. But that doesn't mean that its "the future" of gaming which is the topic of this thread. It may become very popular. ( I own a PS2 and a PC and a Macintosh). It will never replace PC completely.
pc = any point of view games. First person games on console suck. the only one that i've ever played that gave decent control without aiming for you was halo. I like my FPS's and a console will never do it right until they have a better way to control how you aim. a console with a keyboard and mouse = pc with a console name on it.
pc = downloadable free trials. Until consoles do this, you have to buy a game and find you hate it and by then its un-returnable. Sure sell it back for 10% back...woopee. My PS2 collection will never rival my PC collection. I will always maintain my pc as its useful for other things (work, school, finances, browsing, email, etc etc) whereas a console is only for entertainment.
Whoever says that using a gaming PC for regular pc applications is like killing an ant with and H-bomb hasn't ever done graphic design. My "gaming computer" which runs the 5.5 GB unreal 2004 flawlessly. Its 1 GB ram runs Planetside without retribution or slideshow effects. However, when I run my filters on a 300 MB photoshop image I have to bide my time. When I run Maya or 3dMAX - I feel like I'm running on win95 with 8mb ram and no GPU no AGP etc. For this reason I will always be upgrading my PC...because I'll be doing it anyway for my job.
In other words, if you think for half a second, saying that sony selling a billion NIC's for their playstation means that gaming is going away from PC, then obviously you are a child and don't know better. Sorry. One day your teen-age addiction to games will have to end and you will be thrust into the real world, where, you will have to have a job. At this point, you will end up with a PC or Mac or Linux run machine to do your REAL life work. You may not have the choice of purchasing a Gaming computer (console) in addition to your computer you have for Real Life.
"you already have a TV don't you" is not a statement of, you already have the equipment so therefore consoles are better. That TV may be already in use by sibling, spouse, parent or whomever.
"Console games will always work correctly" - false. Read the reviews
"Don't have to update drivers" - unless you want to watch DVD's...yeah, there are required driver updates.
I strongly agree with - "...when they make a title I actually like...." this pretty much sums it up for me. I think consoles would die if they didn't allow renting the games. I have yet to find one that can actually hold my interest.
Basically, a PC can do everything a console can do. A console cannot (if you've modded it, haven't you just turned it into a computer?).
Currently not playing any MMOrpg -- Lvl 80 paladin WoW
hmm look at FFXI for PS2...take you pc version turn the gfx all the way down and thro output to your TV and you got ps2 gfx...console do have a place in this genre, but only prob is consoles cant be upgraded, and how long does it take for new hardware to come out (about every 5 years is average) . New PC upgrades come out every month. i love consoles and i love pcs so dont get me wrong, but honestly id rather save my action/adventure games for console, and leave RTS and RPGs to the PC
Originally posted by Isaak Whoever says that using a gaming PC for regular pc applications is like killing an ant with and H-bomb hasn't ever done graphic design. My "gaming computer" which runs the 5.5 GB unreal 2004 flawlessly. Its 1 GB ram runs Planetside without retribution or slideshow effects. However, when I run my filters on a 300 MB photoshop image I have to bide my time. When I run Maya or 3dMAX - I feel like I'm running on win95 with 8mb ram and no GPU no AGP etc. For this reason I will always be upgrading my PC...because I'll be doing it anyway for my job.
LoL, I said that and that's why I have a gaming PC.... not for games, but my work. I said Using a Gaming PC for nothing but MS Office is like using an H-Bomb to kill an ant.
I am not sure why there are now 2 threads with basically the same topic, but hey maybe the original poster didn't see the other thread.
But I digress....The truth is that consoles, while not as powerful as pc's, are much more cost effective gaming machines. Also why do you think that microsoft got into the console business in the first place....because those guys and gals over at microsfot are generally pretty smart people. Bill Gates is a pretty forward thinking guy, and he realized that consoles would one day be the all purpose machine that would sit in more than half of the world's living rooms. The next genreation of consoles will be your gaming machine/dvd-cd player (and possibly burner)/stereo tuner....and they will no doubt have a mouse and a keyboard. I don't know about you, but I would much rather lie on my couch, with controller in hand, listening to my surround sound stereo, and play my favorite video game of the month...online.
Also for you MMORPG die-hards (like me), if you don't think that the devolopers of these games are going to make console versions of your next favorite MMORPG...then you are sadly mistaken.
I think that the reason most people are not willing to accept that consoles are indeed going to be the most used gaming platform (if not already), is because they just bought their brand new top of the line alien-ware PC, and they are not willing to accept the fact that people are playing FFXI on their $150 ps2 and $100 hard drive (which includes the game).
For those of you that do not have the top of the line gaming pc, how many times have you cursed your computer because of bad frame rates, a pc crash, the evil blue screen of death, viruses, and super-dooper long loading times. Now think to yourself how many times this has happened on your PS2 or X-box. Oh and if it does happen, at least you have a one year warranty, and you can go to best buy and get a new one with no questions asked (I did this with my original PS2 that had disc-read errors).
What I am trying to say here is that, while I conceed that consoles are not as powerful as pc's, they are in the end, much more efficient gaming platforms...not to mention about 7-10 times cheaper...Xaldor
I'll buy a console when it can check my e-mail, pay my bills online, surf the message boards and fan sites, check the weather and news, ballance my checkbook, rip and burn CDs and DVDs, play games with monthly updates and frequent expansions, play games from other formats and from decades past, run my favorite graphics program, run my printer, and do the many other things I do on my computer including allowing me to play without disturbing the rest of the family or hogging the TV set.
Otherwise, I will still need my computer, and with the cost of buying all those console games, I can afford to have the top of the line graphics card and RAM.
BTW, from the looks of it, Microsoft isn't expecting either platform to go away. They are actually developing tools to make it easier to build a good game for both their next generation of console AND for the computer. So we may see a day in the future where there isn't an X-box version and a PC version of a game, it may just have one version. But even with XNA in the works, it doesn't sound like they are planning an X-box version of Vanguard.
Originally posted by n2sooners I'll buy a console when it can check my e-mail, pay my bills online, surf the message boards and fan sites, check the weather and news, ballance my checkbook, rip and burn CDs and DVDs
Apples and oranges...This thread says that the future of gaming is on consoles. Not that consoles are the future of email, bill paying, internet surfing....although I would imagine that the next-gen consoles will be able to check your email/surf the net. Also the cost of a new console game is generally the same as the cost of a pc game. Also I never said that the pc is going away...I just said that the console is a more cost-effective and efficient gaming platform....Xaldor
Originally posted by Isaak Console = 3rd person point of view games. More limited controls than a PC.
I don't know where you got this? Halos is not 3rd person, and is regarded one of the best games ever. Alien vs. Predator is an RTS on the XBox, not 3rd person at all. I would say there is at least one of every type of game on the market on the XBox. Give me a genre or a point of view and I will give you the name of a game that does it on my XBox.
Unupgradeable. <--- let me rephrase this. You MUST upgrade it every 4 years when they come out with the new version. You must also purchase 4 of them to play all the titles available. Oh wait, I forgot Gameboys and n-gage style hand held consoles.
This whole concept of upgrading has been burned into you by the PC industry, and you are trying to push it at the console. Just because the PC gaming industry has you beilieving you should have to upgrade does not mean that you do. It is a concept that is for PCs, not consoles.
Okay, enter online gaming. Now here comes more costs. Get online with your 4 different kinds of consoles, all hooked up to your one tv and one internet connection. Pay your exclusive charges for access to their servers. Only SOME pc games require this top play online.
I only have one console, an XBox. Not 4, so here is my cost. $50 per year, XBox Live!. Thats it... Your point is? Where does it say I have to won 4 consoles? So I can play all the games? Do you have a PC, a MAc, and a box running Linux? If so, then 4 consoles is WAY THE HELL CHEAPER than your PC collection by far.
Sure a console can play games well. Sure. But that doesn't mean that its "the future" of gaming which is the topic of this thread. It may become very popular. ( I own a PS2 and a PC and a Macintosh). It will never replace PC completely.
No one said it will replace it completely, but it is taking the majority of the market and will continue to do so. It is afact that the PC gamng market is in a decline, and the console gaming market is growing.
pc = any point of view games. First person games on console suck. the only one that i've ever played that gave decent control without aiming for you was halo. I like my FPS's and a console will never do it right until they have a better way to control how you aim. a console with a keyboard and mouse = pc with a console name on it.
Here we go again. Just because you have not spent the time to learn to use a controller well to play FPS games... But, you know the best part about it... Everybody else you are playing with is also using a controller. So, everybody is using the same controls, kinda evens it out in the end anyway...
Consider this, from this argument, are you saying if there was a Mouse for the XBox, then you would agree that XBox is a better gaming machine? Because, it is possible right now...
pc = downloadable free trials. Until consoles do this, you have to buy a game and find you hate it and by then its un-returnable. Sure sell it back for 10% back...woopee. My PS2 collection will never rival my PC collection. I will always maintain my pc as its useful for other things (work, school, finances, browsing, email, etc etc) whereas a console is only for entertainment.
Good try... But, I just rented 3 brand spanking new XBox games for .99 cents a piece last week. Do that with your PC. By the time it takes me to drive to Hollywood Video, rent 3 games come home and start playing, you will have downloaded about 50% of one game. Also, many XBox games come with demos of other games on them. Also, XBox magazine has 10 or more game demos in it every month.
Whoever says that using a gaming PC for regular pc applications is like killing an ant with and H-bomb hasn't ever done graphic design. My "gaming computer" which runs the 5.5 GB unreal 2004 flawlessly. Its 1 GB ram runs Planetside without retribution or slideshow effects. However, when I run my filters on a 300 MB photoshop image I have to bide my time. When I run Maya or 3dMAX - I feel like I'm running on win95 with 8mb ram and no GPU no AGP etc. For this reason I will always be upgrading my PC...because I'll be doing it anyway for my job.
This has no purpose in our conversation, but you are right. high End PCs have real purposes, not for gaming. Gaming is a side effect.
In other words, if you think for half a second, saying that sony selling a billion NIC's for their playstation means that gaming is going away from PC, then obviously you are a child and don't know better. Sorry. One day your teen-age addiction to games will have to end and you will be thrust into the real world, where, you will have to have a job. At this point, you will end up with a PC or Mac or Linux run machine to do your REAL life work. You may not have the choice of purchasing a Gaming computer (console) in addition to your computer you have for Real Life.
Ha, I have a 100K income. I have 5 very powerful PCs at home. Running XP, 2K Server, 2K Pro, and 98. I work with PCs for a living, I am a Network Manager in care of over 300 PCs, 8 servers, Live connections to Brazil, Canada, and California. If you think you know more about computers than I do, you got another thing coming.
"you already have a TV don't you" is not a statement of, you already have the equipment so therefore consoles are better. That TV may be already in use by sibling, spouse, parent or whomever. "Console games will always work correctly" - false. Read the reviews "Don't have to update drivers" - unless you want to watch DVD's...yeah, there are required driver updates.
What the hell are you talking about? I have never had to update a "driver". I have never had an XBox game not work. And I have put more than 100 games into my XBox. I have 6 TVs in my house, One 56", one 36", 3 27", and a 25". There is a TV to play on. And considering I won them all, there isn't someone who trumps me on the use of MY 56" HDTV. Anyone on it when I want it is told to go into the other room.
I strongly agree with - "...when they make a title I actually like...." this pretty much sums it up for me. I think consoles would die if they didn't allow renting the games. I have yet to find one that can actually hold my interest.
So, what kind of games do you like? Lets see if I can match a game to your interests.
Basically, a PC can do everything a console can do. A console cannot (if you've modded it, haven't you just turned it into a computer?).
I have never disputed this. A console just does it better and cheaper. And allows me to play it on my TV while layng on the couch.
And don't give me the whole I can use my PC on my TV. Sure you can, but it will look like crap. First, your PCs video output does not match the resolution of the TV. The game you are playing was not MEANT to be on a TV, so the font will not be as clear as it could be, and it will be a pain moving your PC next to your TV.
I was a huge anti-console person myself until I saw the XBox for the first time. I use to argue all the same points as you guys. But then I found out that I was wrong. I eventually saw the light. It is just so much easier and nicer.
Ever have 4 people over at your house to play networked games. How long did it take from your friends getting there til playing? An hour? More? With one XBox, it takes the time to turn it on, a minute. With 4 XBoxes, it takes the time to hook the boxes to TVs, 5 minutes.
Originally posted by protoroc hmm look at FFXI for PS2...take you pc version turn the gfx all the way down and thro output to your TV and you got ps2 gfx...console do have a place in this genre, but only prob is consoles cant be upgraded, and how long does it take for new hardware to come out (about every 5 years is average) . New PC upgrades come out every month. i love consoles and i love pcs so dont get me wrong, but honestly id rather save my action/adventure games for console, and leave RTS and RPGs to the PC
Let me start by saying, your avatar is funny as hell...
OK, back to the upgrade thing again. I think we have beaten this one to death. It is a PC concept, not a console concept. Get over it already.
My PC is top of the line, upgraded constantly. In fact, the company I work for pays it. But I still know that console gaming is better in many ways.
And you are right. Right now, there are some games better played on a PC and some games better played on a console. But this is slowly changing. Eventualy all gaming genres will be perfectly playable on the console. They are already trying. The XBox has RTS games, FPS games, and simulations. Gaming on the XBox is just much more comfortable. Especially when you sit on the couch with 3 friends and play something stupid like Shrek Party, or Fuzion Frenzy. Throw in a case of beer, some margaritas, some After Shock shots, and fun can be had by all until a fight breaks out
Originally posted by Maximane I think the horse is quite dead. -------------------- Alex "Maximane" De Line - MMORPG.COM Staff - maximane@mmorpg.com
Good, now we will do like Han Solo in Empire Strikes Back, and cut it open, and use the guts to keep the dying PC gaming indiustry alive for a little while longer.
Comments
Here's the thing.Console games dont last....at all.When the 1st ps2's came on the market sony created a HIGH demand for them by not manufacturing enough of them.I know a friend of mine that has to be the 1st kid on the block to have the new toys.He paid at least 700 bucks for the thing.That was just with 2 games and 2 controllers.
Flash forward a few years and guess what?Sony and microsoft are in a price war.Xbox is now 150 dollars with ps2 to follow very very soon.BTW not man y know this but when the ps2 launched a few days later they copyrighted the name playstation3 and ps3.com etc etc.The console market is for children not grownups.
Sony and nintendo and now microsoft manufacture console games to last 5 years or so thats it.Eqoa is eq lite from what ive heard . Do you think sony will continue to support that through the ps3?Sure they will but ya got to buy a whole new system and more software for it.
I built my pc 2 years ago and it can still run multiple programs at the same time.I can upgrade my video card if need be.I can store pictures on it.My whole system is upgradeable for that matter.Even if we could upgrade a console system (wich is what manufacturers should be doing any way with 3rd party developers so you could at least get a higher end video card on a ps3 or something)what would be the point if a pc can out perform it in everything else?
What type of games do you like?
Most genres now exist to a limited extent, and this is changing rapidly.
I am running an Althon XP 1800 1.5ghz, it's outdated. A 733mhz CHEAP ASS Celeron is totally outdated. Celerons suck in the first place. I wouldn't take a free computer that had a celeron. Even so, it's running a P3.
When you're not running a OS and no other operations and the biggest vid card of the time of it's release, sure, not a problem. Well... they are running an OS but it's the equivelent of a Floppy Disk Linux.
733MHz
32-bit INT
80-bit FP
64-bit MMX
128-bit SSE
32KB L1
128KB L2
1980 MIPS
2.93 GFLOPS
1.0 GB/sec Bus
233MHz
1.9G Texels/Sec
3.7G Samples/Sec
DX8 Shaders
80 GFLOPS
106M Vertices/Sec
Compression
FSAA
32-bit Color
6.4 GB/sec Bus
256 2D Voices
64 3D Voices
Dolby Digital
800 MB/sec Bus
DVD (8.54GB)
10/100 Ethernet
8GB HDD
485MHz
32-bit INT
64-bit FP
64KB L1
256KB L2
1125 MIPS
1.94 GFLOPS
1.3 GB/sec Bus
162MHz
650M Texels/Sec
T&L Engine
8.6 GFLOPS
Compression
FSAA
24-bit Color
3MB (20 GB/s)
2.6 GB/sec Bus
64 2D Voices
ADPCM
81 MB/sec Bus
16MB (81 MB/s)
1.5GB Discs
Expansion
56K Modem
Ethernet
300MHz
128-bit INT
128-bit FP
24KB L1
16KB Scratch
8KB VU0
32KB VU1
450 MIPS
6.2 GFLOPS
66M Vertices/Sec
2.4 GB/s Internal
1.2 GB/s Graphics
3.2 GB/s Memory
150MHz
1.2G Texels/Sec
32-bit Color
4MB (48 GB/s)
1.2 GB/sec Bus
48 2D Voices
ADPCM
2MB
DVD (4.7GB)
CD (650MB)
Expansion
56K Modem
10/100 Ethernet
40GB HDD
200MHz
32-bit INT
64-bit FP
24KB L1
360 MIPS
1.4 GFLOPS
800 MB/sec Bus
100MHz
100M Texels/Sec
Deferred Rendering
Compression
FSAA
32-bit Color
8MB (800 MB/s)
64 2D Voices
ADPCM
2MB
12x GD-ROM (1GB)
56K Modem
Expansion
10/100 Ethernet
As I said. A console is an Outdated PC.
http://www.pcvsconsole.com/features/consoles/
A Work in Progress.
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Not real sure what this is uppose to mean. All of my games have lasted, none have broke... If you mean consoles don't last, mine has been working for 2 years or so now. There are still new games coming out for it, many many new games each month. Hard to keep up with them all.
Shows how popular they are... Is this a dig against consoles? Not sure how...
Good for the consumer... What has this got to do with PCs being better than consoles? Show me a $150 PC... Can't can ya? Especially not one that can play decent games.
Your point is???
Really, damn. I'm 32... Thank god I have 2 kids. It's for the kids, I swear...
Good, I would hate to have to buy a new one every year... Kinda like buying a new video card every year... Hmmm...
MMORPG's on consoles are slowly coming to bear... Just need a little time. It is a very young market. But, the potential is HUGE for the first developer to get it right on a console...
So can my computer. What is the point of that statement? We are proving that the console is a better gaming platform, not a better PC.
Sure glad I don't have to spend money upgrading parts on my console. Since it can't be upgraded, I know any game that comes out for the XBox will run on my XBox. What is this? An advantage consoles have over PCs?!?! Do you think?!?!
I can store PCs on my PC too. Again, consoles are gamiong devices. What debate are you arguing? Don't even get me started on my Mod Chip anyway...
Again, not having to upgrade is an advantage the console has, not a disadvantage. I would hate for a game to come out that required me to purchase an upgrade for my Xbox. That would be a bad thing. The graphics that are coming out of the latest XBox games are great. And they will only be better on the Xbox 2. I can't wait.
You can't win this debate, you are on the wrong side.
This could never happen, since consoles are PC lites. Their market are people to young to deal with PC's, or those with to short of a attention span to wait for a PC to boot.
Although technically, most consoles "could" play many current PC games if you had the HDD/keyboard/network, and a little tweaking of it's OS.
If PC game CD's where made bootable, they too would effectively be Consoles.
-=-=-=-=-
Make no mistake, MMORPG's are not games, they are hobbies. If you have a job, you'll need to give up watching TV in order to play one. You'll be better off for it.
Bartle: A: 93% E: 55% S:3% K: 50% The Test. Learn what it means here.
-=-=-=-=-
Achievers realise that killers as a concept are necessary in order to make achievement meaningful and worthwhile (there being no way to "lose" the game if any fool can "win" just by plodding slowly unchallenged). -bartle
Bartle: A: 93% E: 55% S:3% K: 50% The Test. Learn what it means here.
A console is a computer that plays games, a PC is a general purpose computer, an ATM is a computer, most modern cars have computers in them, blah, blah, blah. A console is a computer, not a PC.
A console is a computer that is built for the purpose of playing games. Because it has this sole purpose, it is very good at it.
My PC is way better than yours, but I can tell you that the XBox is a much more efficient game playing computer. The PC may be able to play games that are better than the XBox graphically, but my PC also cost a hell of a lot more money.
Console advantages:
No installations.
No worries about driver issues.
No worries about compatibility.
No IRQ issues.
Game rentals (try renting a PC game, it is against the law if you don't know).
Knowing the game is going to work as expected.
Connects to a 56" screen.
Knowing the person I am playing against online is using the same hardware as me.
A Gaming machine isn't a General Application Machine. A gaming machine is made for gaming, but alot better than a Console.
Using a gaming machine for nothing but MS Office is like killing an Ant w/ a 200mt H-Bomb.
You can connect a PC to a TV.
You can't build a Console either. When I built my PC it was pretty much the best you could buy. An alienware cost $5000 w/ the exact same specs, where as I built my PC w/ a 17" Monitor for $1000... and that's using nothing but top of the line parts that only an Alienware could compare w/. I have built PCs for under $500 w/ monitors (wich is one of the most expensive parts) that HP sold for $1500.
A Work in Progress.
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Not stereotyping are you?!?! I am 32 years old, I am a Network Manager who builds and operates the most powerful PCs on the market. And I consider myself in the market for consoles. Consoles do what they do well. End of story.
Many current PC games are on consoles. Alien vs. Predator, Unreal 2004, Need For speed UnderGround, Madden 2004... etc, etc, etc...
What would a bootable game CD for a PC do? Boot right into the setup program
And here you have pointed out another benefit of console games. Almost all PC games come on 1 or 2 CDs. While my Xbox games come on a DVD, equivalent to about 6 times the data of 1 CD. No wonder we get such good conent on the XBox.
Are you saying you can't run Word on your Gaming PC??? You can. I am saying I can't run Word on my Xbox. One is made for gaming, the other is a general purpose computer.
The operating system on the Xbox was made for gaming only. The OS on your PC was not.
And just so you know, there are PCs built to do stuff that your "gaming PC" couldn't touch. Those PCs would play your games blazingly fast, but nobody would use a $15000+ PC to play a game.
Geforce 4 A170 DDR-T (64MB)
Clock 270MHz
Fill Rate(texels/sec.) 1.1 billion
Memory Bandwidth 6.4GB/sec
Microsoft DirectX 8.1 and OpenGL 1.3 ICD Optimizations and support
113 million vertices/sec
Hmm, not much difference between the $150 (you might find it for $99 or less) video card and a $150 console. But the video card still needs the rest of the computer while the console just needs a TV. I'm sure you have a TV already, right?
Console = 3rd person point of view games. More limited controls than a PC. Unupgradeable. <--- let me rephrase this. You MUST upgrade it every 4 years when they come out with the new version. You must also purchase 4 of them to play all the titles available. Oh wait, I forgot Gameboys and n-gage style hand held consoles.
Okay, enter online gaming. Now here comes more costs. Get online with your 4 different kinds of consoles, all hooked up to your one tv and one internet connection. Pay your exclusive charges for access to their servers. Only SOME pc games require this top play online.
Sure a console can play games well. Sure. But that doesn't mean that its "the future" of gaming which is the topic of this thread. It may become very popular. ( I own a PS2 and a PC and a Macintosh). It will never replace PC completely.
pc = any point of view games. First person games on console suck. the only one that i've ever played that gave decent control without aiming for you was halo. I like my FPS's and a console will never do it right until they have a better way to control how you aim. a console with a keyboard and mouse = pc with a console name on it.
pc = downloadable free trials. Until consoles do this, you have to buy a game and find you hate it and by then its un-returnable. Sure sell it back for 10% back...woopee. My PS2 collection will never rival my PC collection. I will always maintain my pc as its useful for other things (work, school, finances, browsing, email, etc etc) whereas a console is only for entertainment.
Whoever says that using a gaming PC for regular pc applications is like killing an ant with and H-bomb hasn't ever done graphic design. My "gaming computer" which runs the 5.5 GB unreal 2004 flawlessly. Its 1 GB ram runs Planetside without retribution or slideshow effects. However, when I run my filters on a 300 MB photoshop image I have to bide my time. When I run Maya or 3dMAX - I feel like I'm running on win95 with 8mb ram and no GPU no AGP etc. For this reason I will always be upgrading my PC...because I'll be doing it anyway for my job.
In other words, if you think for half a second, saying that sony selling a billion NIC's for their playstation means that gaming is going away from PC, then obviously you are a child and don't know better. Sorry. One day your teen-age addiction to games will have to end and you will be thrust into the real world, where, you will have to have a job. At this point, you will end up with a PC or Mac or Linux run machine to do your REAL life work. You may not have the choice of purchasing a Gaming computer (console) in addition to your computer you have for Real Life.
"you already have a TV don't you" is not a statement of, you already have the equipment so therefore consoles are better. That TV may be already in use by sibling, spouse, parent or whomever.
"Console games will always work correctly" - false. Read the reviews
"Don't have to update drivers" - unless you want to watch DVD's...yeah, there are required driver updates.
I strongly agree with - "...when they make a title I actually like...." this pretty much sums it up for me. I think consoles would die if they didn't allow renting the games. I have yet to find one that can actually hold my interest.
Basically, a PC can do everything a console can do. A console cannot (if you've modded it, haven't you just turned it into a computer?).
Currently not playing any MMOrpg --
Lvl 80 paladin WoW
Im sorry man but your on the wrong side of this debate.
Ive not upgraded my machine in the 2 years since i purchased it.Im just saying i can if i feel like it.
I wont be the one going out to buy the ps3 because the kid down the street has it.Microsoft/sony has found a great consumer in you.
One that likes to waste his cash.
So go ahead and say what you want but ill still have my p.c. when the ps3 comes out.
all i can say is :
console != PC
console < PC
A Work in Progress.
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I am not sure why there are now 2 threads with basically the same topic, but hey maybe the original poster didn't see the other thread.
But I digress....The truth is that consoles, while not as powerful as pc's, are much more cost effective gaming machines. Also why do you think that microsoft got into the console business in the first place....because those guys and gals over at microsfot are generally pretty smart people. Bill Gates is a pretty forward thinking guy, and he realized that consoles would one day be the all purpose machine that would sit in more than half of the world's living rooms. The next genreation of consoles will be your gaming machine/dvd-cd player (and possibly burner)/stereo tuner....and they will no doubt have a mouse and a keyboard. I don't know about you, but I would much rather lie on my couch, with controller in hand, listening to my surround sound stereo, and play my favorite video game of the month...online.
Also for you MMORPG die-hards (like me), if you don't think that the devolopers of these games are going to make console versions of your next favorite MMORPG...then you are sadly mistaken.
I think that the reason most people are not willing to accept that consoles are indeed going to be the most used gaming platform (if not already), is because they just bought their brand new top of the line alien-ware PC, and they are not willing to accept the fact that people are playing FFXI on their $150 ps2 and $100 hard drive (which includes the game).
For those of you that do not have the top of the line gaming pc, how many times have you cursed your computer because of bad frame rates, a pc crash, the evil blue screen of death, viruses, and super-dooper long loading times. Now think to yourself how many times this has happened on your PS2 or X-box. Oh and if it does happen, at least you have a one year warranty, and you can go to best buy and get a new one with no questions asked (I did this with my original PS2 that had disc-read errors).
What I am trying to say here is that, while I conceed that consoles are not as powerful as pc's, they are in the end, much more efficient gaming platforms...not to mention about 7-10 times cheaper...Xaldor
I'll buy a console when it can check my e-mail, pay my bills online, surf the message boards and fan sites, check the weather and news, ballance my checkbook, rip and burn CDs and DVDs, play games with monthly updates and frequent expansions, play games from other formats and from decades past, run my favorite graphics program, run my printer, and do the many other things I do on my computer including allowing me to play without disturbing the rest of the family or hogging the TV set.
Otherwise, I will still need my computer, and with the cost of buying all those console games, I can afford to have the top of the line graphics card and RAM.
BTW, from the looks of it, Microsoft isn't expecting either platform to go away. They are actually developing tools to make it easier to build a good game for both their next generation of console AND for the computer. So we may see a day in the future where there isn't an X-box version and a PC version of a game, it may just have one version. But even with XNA in the works, it doesn't sound like they are planning an X-box version of Vanguard.
http://pc.ign.com/articles/501/501368p1.html?fromint=1
I don't know where you got this? Halos is not 3rd person, and is regarded one of the best games ever.
Alien vs. Predator is an RTS on the XBox, not 3rd person at all.
I would say there is at least one of every type of game on the market on the XBox. Give me a genre or a point of view and I will give you the name of a game that does it on my XBox.
This whole concept of upgrading has been burned into you by the PC industry, and you are trying to push it at the console. Just because the PC gaming industry has you beilieving you should have to upgrade does not mean that you do. It is a concept that is for PCs, not consoles.
I only have one console, an XBox. Not 4, so here is my cost. $50 per year, XBox Live!. Thats it... Your point is? Where does it say I have to won 4 consoles? So I can play all the games? Do you have a PC, a MAc, and a box running Linux? If so, then 4 consoles is WAY THE HELL CHEAPER than your PC collection by far.
No one said it will replace it completely, but it is taking the majority of the market and will continue to do so. It is afact that the PC gamng market is in a decline, and the console gaming market is growing.
Here we go again. Just because you have not spent the time to learn to use a controller well to play FPS games... But, you know the best part about it... Everybody else you are playing with is also using a controller. So, everybody is using the same controls, kinda evens it out in the end anyway...
Consider this, from this argument, are you saying if there was a Mouse for the XBox, then you would agree that XBox is a better gaming machine? Because, it is possible right now...
Good try... But, I just rented 3 brand spanking new XBox games for .99 cents a piece last week. Do that with your PC. By the time it takes me to drive to Hollywood Video, rent 3 games come home and start playing, you will have downloaded about 50% of one game. Also, many XBox games come with demos of other games on them. Also, XBox magazine has 10 or more game demos in it every month.
This has no purpose in our conversation, but you are right. high End PCs have real purposes, not for gaming. Gaming is a side effect.
Ha, I have a 100K income. I have 5 very powerful PCs at home. Running XP, 2K Server, 2K Pro, and 98. I work with PCs for a living, I am a Network Manager in care of over 300 PCs, 8 servers, Live connections to Brazil, Canada, and California. If you think you know more about computers than I do, you got another thing coming.
What the hell are you talking about? I have never had to update a "driver". I have never had an XBox game not work. And I have put more than 100 games into my XBox. I have 6 TVs in my house, One 56", one 36", 3 27", and a 25". There is a TV to play on. And considering I won them all, there isn't someone who trumps me on the use of MY 56" HDTV. Anyone on it when I want it is told to go into the other room.
So, what kind of games do you like? Lets see if I can match a game to your interests.
I have never disputed this. A console just does it better and cheaper. And allows me to play it on my TV while layng on the couch.
And don't give me the whole I can use my PC on my TV. Sure you can, but it will look like crap. First, your PCs video output does not match the resolution of the TV. The game you are playing was not MEANT to be on a TV, so the font will not be as clear as it could be, and it will be a pain moving your PC next to your TV.
I was a huge anti-console person myself until I saw the XBox for the first time. I use to argue all the same points as you guys. But then I found out that I was wrong. I eventually saw the light. It is just so much easier and nicer.
Ever have 4 people over at your house to play networked games. How long did it take from your friends getting there til playing? An hour? More? With one XBox, it takes the time to turn it on, a minute. With 4 XBoxes, it takes the time to hook the boxes to TVs, 5 minutes.
I agree...
$150 != $800
$150 < $800
You sir, are CORRECT!!!
Let me start by saying, your avatar is funny as hell...
OK, back to the upgrade thing again. I think we have beaten this one to death. It is a PC concept, not a console concept. Get over it already.
My PC is top of the line, upgraded constantly. In fact, the company I work for pays it. But I still know that console gaming is better in many ways.
And you are right. Right now, there are some games better played on a PC and some games better played on a console. But this is slowly changing. Eventualy all gaming genres will be perfectly playable on the console. They are already trying. The XBox has RTS games, FPS games, and simulations. Gaming on the XBox is just much more comfortable. Especially when you sit on the couch with 3 friends and play something stupid like Shrek Party, or Fuzion Frenzy. Throw in a case of beer, some margaritas, some After Shock shots, and fun can be had by all until a fight breaks out
I think the horse is quite dead.
--------------------
Alex "Maximane" De Line
- MMORPG.COM Staff -
maximane@mmorpg.com
Good, now we will do like Han Solo in Empire Strikes Back, and cut it open, and use the guts to keep the dying PC gaming indiustry alive for a little while longer.
I think that is the biggest attraction of consoles, just to sit back with friends and unwind. Much easier than trying to get a LAN game going.
Live anywhere near Albany, OR?
My parties include an Air Hockey Table, Foosball, darts, Xbox, Kegerator, and poker.
And during the summer, Slip n' Slide in the backyard. Mostly for the kids, but most adults after 5 or 6 drinks...