Nonsense. When were the actual game boxes sold, put through the inventory system, and picked up, thus registering a sale of the product? At the end of April. They could in 2Q. period. A pre-sale isn't a sale until the day it is run through a register and paid for as a final, released product. Give it up- with the number of servers, population on each...172K is it. Just accept it
Never though of it like that, You're probably right there. Not trying to deny anything or need to accept anything either. Just having a debate. I was only thinking it would add another 50k at the most anyway, not that it would really increase that number to anything spectacular. You seem to be making this out as a failure of some sort though.
calender quarters and business quarters are not always the same , but judging from the release of this data they might be.. However my wife is an accountant and one place she worked at the first business quarter began on 1 November and ended 31 January, second frm 1 Febuary til April etc etc. be that as it may those figures are only Midway's Box sales and do not include Codemaster sales or any other sales than Midways.
Also most games gain momentum for the first year, in particular ones of the quality of LoTRO. Gules you wish the game was a flop, but truth be told it is a overwhlming success and just looking at all the people wanting trial keys here is proof of that. Might as well give up kid, people love this game and all your troll posts are just a waste of time and energy. You should go find something constructive to do , you will feel better.
Nonsense. When were the actual game boxes sold, put through the inventory system, and picked up, thus registering a sale of the product? At the end of April. They could in 2Q. period. A pre-sale isn't a sale until the day it is run through a register and paid for as a final, released product. Give it up- with the number of servers, population on each...172K is it. Just accept it
Never though of it like that, You're probably right there. Not trying to deny anything or need to accept anything either. Just having a debate. I was only thinking it would add another 50k at the most anyway, not that it would really increase that number to anything spectacular. You seem to be making this out as a failure of some sort though.
calender quarters and business quarters are not always the same , but judging from the release of this data they might be.. However my wife is an accountant and one place she worked at the first business quarter began on 1 November and ended 31 January, second frm 1 Febuary til April etc etc. be that as it may those figures are only Midway's Box sales and do not include Codemaster sales or any other sales than Midways.
Also most games gain momentum for the first year, in particular ones of the quality of LoTRO. Gules you wish the game was a flop, but truth be told it is a overwhlming success and just looking at all the people wanting trial keys here is proof of that. Might as well give up kid, people love this game and all your troll posts are just a waste of time and energy. You should go find something constructive to do , you will feel better.
Not really sure that was called for. You can debate with people or not like what they say.
Yet to turn around and call the game an overwhelming success is just the same thing the "other" person is doing in reverse. No one here knows how the game is doing... what the expectations were.... numbers needed and in the end numbers retained.
So all of us can have an opinion but none of us can state fact.
I think it can just as easily be said that:
Based on the IP and the respective number of retained AND playing subscribers... One could easily compare this game to SWG. Lucky for you I don't see Turbine being stupid enough to pull an NGE type stunt with this game.
If you predate WoW as to what an outstanding success was... (when EQ1 still pretty much had the peak subscriber number of any NA based MMO)... Then yes this game is a success... just as SWG was...
Anyway.. the only reason I posted was you call the person you quoted a Troll... but pretty much you are doing the same thing. You don't have any more objective facts to base your assumption or accusation on.
Trial keys do not equate to Accounts... ever. Many games have trials... and they can have a lot of people try them or ask for keys (hell people still ask for vanguard keys...). That's not really a supportive piece of data.
The game had a smooth launch... is of good quality. I liked Lore Master the best out of all the classes.. but the game just didn't hold my attention.
Is it a bad game? No... just for me it didn't have the ability to keep me subscribed.
If I had planned on having 200$ laying around.. I might have gotten the lifetime sub.
Lets just say I can understand people who say they didn't like the game... or that it couldn't keep them interested. I still don't call it a bad game...
Gaming is a subjective experience...
and when you get the official subscriber data sheets from turbine let me know... until then claming how great the game is doing.. is just as much trolling as the guy you quoted.
For a major IP MMO - 172,000 in US (pressumably then 300-350,000 including Europe) is horrible. Consider that is boxes sold - not subs - so it is unlikely they even have 200k subs. Not bad for an average, profitable MMO - but terrible in terms of this being some WoW killer mega hit. Consider further that the game has had nearly ZERO competition in terms of new releases, and the failure that VG was (which sold more in its first month thatn did LotRO in the quarter) and it is pretty clear LotRO is a flop in terms of it being this allmighty next great MMO. In the end it is just another minor title, and I wonder if it is anywhere near making money given the IP and development had to cost a chunk of change.
Bored of the Rings Online indeed.
Originally posted by Jackdog
Comparing any future game to WoW will just lead to frustration, WoW was not a game it was a phenomenon. Those figures were just Midway box sales for the quarter but in my opinion reflect what I think is the appx server population for the game US wise. Worldwide I would think the game probably has somewhere between 300 - 350 K. They are beta testing in China right now. All in all the game is healthy but will never be a WoW killer. My guild is stable and has had over a 50% retention from launch, and our biggest bleed is guildies returning to WoW where we also have a chapter. Our EQII chapter which I managed last year has more or less completly migrated to LoTRO and the few remaining members are think of merging it into another guild. A lot of our WoW members who tried LoTRO did not care for the pace of the combat, the graphic style, and lack of raid dungeons. Our EQII chapter was more casual toward raiding and prefer the more realistic graphics, and as such found the transition easier I suppose.
Sorry to pick on you but what kind of fanboy crack are you smoking? They release numbers saying 172,000 units sold (presumptively US only with Europe estimates around the same) and you then extrapolate that to say 350k subs? That is the most idiotic thing I have ever sold. From the published numbers it would seem unlikely they have even sold 350k boxes let alone gotten that many subs. Even you say your guild retension since launch is 50% so take the 172k announced and double it for Europe and cut that by 50% (which would be an incredible retention number BTW) and you still get a miserable number that shows people have mostly rejected the game).
Originally posted by Jackdog
Also most games gain momentum for the first year, in particular ones of the quality of LoTRO. Gules you wish the game was a flop, but truth be told it is a overwhlming success and just looking at all the people wanting trial keys here is proof of that. Might as well give up kid, people love this game and all your troll posts are just a waste of time and energy. You should go find something constructive to do , you will feel better.
Again - lay off the fanboy crack. most games pick up momentum the first year? msot games die miserable deaths of forgotten existance the first year. Jeez, what planet do you live on. Few games increase in sales over time. Do the math - LotRO cost at least 15 to 20 million to develop (even though they reused alot of DDOs stuff) and tha tlikely doesn't even cover the IP liscense. If they sold 350,000 boxes worldwide the first quarter then that would come to around 17,500,000 which means the first quarter of sales didn't even break even on development, likely not even close as I would wager the total cost of development is easily close to $30 million. Face it man, lotRO is another big IP failure from Turbine and while you may love it the facts of its lackluster sales are undeniable.
Another IP ruined by Turbine - think they will get a strike three? I doubt it.
LOL if you don't like my opinions then don't read em.
Fact- Midway sold 179K boxes in the US during the second business quarter- what dates that encompasses is just specualtion
Fact- Codemasters sold a lot of boxes in Europe since release - anyones guess at the numbers but well over 100K probaly closer to 200K just guessing
Fact- Sakura distribute LoTRO in Japan no numbers released
Fact - The Australian distributer is Atari no numbers were released
Fact- beta testing has started in China, anyones guess on whether they game will be asuccess there or not
Fact- no Korean distribution is in effect at this time
Fact- stating that the game only sold 179 K copies is bullshit, saying that Midway sold 179k copies during the second quarter is a fact.
So yeah saying the game is a failure or that it only has 179K subs is bullshit and misrepresenting facts. If the game is such a failure then why do you guys continue to come over and bash it. It scares the hell out of you guys for some reason. or you would ignore it. You can't say that Turbine is trying to fool anyone since they are letting anyone try before buy, so obviously it is something else that motivates you. What that is only something that you know.
Fack - 179,000 US boxes sold for the full quarter post release for a major IP blockbuster title released with no competing new releases is TERRIBLE. Yet, in the face of this fact you invent 600k more copies sold and suppose 350k subscriptions when, clearly, the facts would suggest otherwise.
I don't much care one way or the other if LotRO sells 1 copy or one million, I think the game is as unoriginal and boring as any I have seen. That being said, with all the fanboys such as yourself running all over all year talking about LotRO as the WoW killer and the greatest thing since sliced bread I find it pleasant to see the facts suggesting it is remarkably unremarkable in terms of sales.
Fack - 179,000 US boxes sold for the full quarter post release for a major IP blockbuster title released with no competing new releases is TERRIBLE. Yet, in the face of this fact you invent 600k more copies sold and suppose 350k subscriptions when, clearly, the facts would suggest otherwise.
I don't much care one way or the other if LotRO sells 1 copy or one million, I think the game is as unoriginal and boring as any I have seen. That being said, with all the fanboys such as yourself running all over all year talking about LotRO as the WoW killer and the greatest thing since sliced bread I find it pleasant to see the facts suggesting it is remarkably unremarkable in terms of sales.
get your facts straight Smith . Where did I ever say the game sold a million copies? Please post a link to where I said that in a post In this very thread post number 16 I speculated around 300K to 350 K subs worldwide, which includes N America, Australia, Japan, and Europe. I really don't know what the numbers are but I do know the N American servers are sure as hell not empty. I also know the game is far from a failure.
Oh and you obviously care for some reason other wise you would not bother coming over to bash it in between fanboy posts on the AoC forum. Now I suppose you will show how much you don't care by coming back to the thread and making another post
I wonder if I should make a sig saying I have a Cray to boost my credibility ?
I am trying to confirm the LOTRO stats but these are proving very difficult to get. Because of my past (and current) relationships with Turbine and Codemasters I have to be 110% about the information provided and not use information from friends/working relationship so this makes it more difficult unless I get official comment from Turbine/Codemasters.
Hope that makes sense.
Response from: Vortal on 04 Jul, 2007 - 08:54 AM
Just got some confirmed stats in the for the UK only and upto May07 LOTRO sold 40,000 copies.
Need to get someone to confirm the same for Europe and US now
So, that leaves us with 40,000 sold in UK only, but nobody knows how many are still subscribed.
Response from: Vortal on 02 Jul, 2007 - 03:45 AM I am trying to confirm the LOTRO stats but these are proving very difficult to get. Because of my past (and current) relationships with Turbine and Codemasters I have to be 110% about the information provided and not use information from friends/working relationship so this makes it more difficult unless I get official comment from Turbine/Codemasters. Hope that makes sense.
Response from: Vortal on 04 Jul, 2007 - 08:54 AM
Just got some confirmed stats in the for the UK only and upto May07 LOTRO sold 40,000 copies.
Need to get someone to confirm the same for Europe and US now
So, that leaves us with 40,000 sold in UK only, but nobody knows how many are still subscribed.
So some guy come on to some small off the wall board and says I am an ex employee and hetre are the numbers then you go around and quote them as fact Try doing a google on LoTRO Europe sales next time. No firm numbers but it was the number one best selling game over there for several weeks.
The Lord of the Rings Online was also the best-selling PC game in Europe during the same period, based on data from the UK's Chart-Track, France's GfK, and Germany's Media Control.
To refer back to Jack's post about it unseating WoW if you check IGN it has total gross sales for the first month of each game. For an expansion with a base of 8.5million people at the time and the release of LoTR:O to only be spaced by less than a million $ is rather impressive in their respective release months.
Now I understand people were going on about o this game is going to outsell WoW or something, but be realistic. WoW is available in almost every country on earth that can get ahold of it due to all of their translation firms. Now this may hurt some of the Wow fanbois but really, get over it. LoTR:O is a good solid game that has brought innovative ideas to the table while Blizzard continues to steal ideas from other MMo's and market it as theirs.
All in all 172k boxes sold in NA in a 3month period is absolutely fantastic for them. Just look at their stock around the time of their quarterly earnings report with LoTR:O being one of their highlights.
All in all 172k boxes sold in NA in a 3month period is absolutely fantastic for them. Just look at their stock around the time of their quarterly earnings report with LoTR:O being one of their highlights.
Once again I have to point out that the 172 K boxes were Midways N American sales for the second business quarter which does not include any numbers for any sales outside N American retailers. For some reason people seem to forget that N America is a very small part of the world. What will tell the tale is when it is released in China and Korea. I have a feeling that the subscription in those 2 countries alone will push LoTRO well over the 1 million mark.
Originally posted by Jackdog Where did I ever say the game sold a million copies? Please post a link to where I said that in a post In this very thread post number 16 I speculated around 300K to 350 K subs
You just said it again in your objection to my post - you speculate that it has 350k subs which would take around 1 million or so units sold.
Originally posted by Jackdog Once again I have to point out that the 172 K boxes were Midways N American sales for the second business quarter which does not include any numbers for any sales outside N American retailers. For some reason people seem to forget that N America is a very small part of the world. What will tell the tale is when it is released in China and Korea. I have a feeling that the subscription in those 2 countries alone will push LoTRO well over the 1 million mark.
North America is easily the largest market for Turbine, by far. Part of the whole - yes; but clearly the biggest part. The last numbers I recall specifically in this context was from a couple years ago and pegged the US game market at around $10 billion with Europe and Asia where quite a bit less.
So some guy come on to some small off the wall board and says I am an ex employee and hetre are the numbers then you go around and quote them as fact Try doing a google on LoTRO Europe sales next time. No firm numbers but it was the number one best selling game over there for several weeks. The Lord of the Rings Online was also the best-selling PC game in Europe during the same period, based on data from the UK's Chart-Track, France's GfK, and Germany's Media Control. pc.ign.com/articles/787/787187p1.html I am too lazy to find more at this time but it probably slod more there than the US.
First of all, I never claimed it was fact.
Secondly, I was talking about UK only, not all of Europe.
So some guy come on to some small off the wall board and says I am an ex employee and hetre are the numbers then you go around and quote them as fact Try doing a google on LoTRO Europe sales next time. No firm numbers but it was the number one best selling game over there for several weeks. The Lord of the Rings Online was also the best-selling PC game in Europe during the same period, based on data from the UK's Chart-Track, France's GfK, and Germany's Media Control. pc.ign.com/articles/787/787187p1.html I am too lazy to find more at this time but it probably slod more there than the US.
Wow - some sales record that link mentions...
"May 10, 2007 - The Lord of the Rings Online is enjoying a strong start right out of the gate. Publisher Midway and developer Turbine have announced the game was the best-selling PC title in North America the week of April 22-28, the week of its release."
So let me get this straight, for ONE week LotRO sold better than the nothing else that was released? Give me a break - LotRO was launched in a near perfect vaccume - WoW is old and people are cranky about it even if still playing, VG was a bust by that time, and NOTHINg else was out in the genre or coming anytime soon. And all they can do is brag about being #1 in sales that week and going on to selling 172k US units the whole quarter after? That is pretty week and if you cannot admit that you have problems with reality.
What amuses the hell out of me is both sides of this argument are basing their entire arguments on muddled facts and guesses. People wanting the game to suck... well give it time and you might get your wish. People wanting it to succeed give it time, and these people may eat crow.
Either way, no one but Turbine employees, accountants, and isp's know what kind of traffic the servers are getting... so lets just all take a few deep breaths and relax.
Originally posted by Jackdog Where did I ever say the game sold a million copies? Please post a link to where I said that in a post In this very thread post number 16 I speculated around 300K to 350 K subs
You just said it again in your objection to my post - you speculate that it has 350k subs which would take around 1 million or so units sold.
Originally posted by Jackdog Once again I have to point out that the 172 K boxes were Midways N American sales for the second business quarter which does not include any numbers for any sales outside N American retailers. For some reason people seem to forget that N America is a very small part of the world. What will tell the tale is when it is released in China and Korea. I have a feeling that the subscription in those 2 countries alone will push LoTRO well over the 1 million mark.
North America is easily the largest market for Turbine, by far. Part of the whole - yes; but clearly the biggest part. The last numbers I recall specifically in this context was from a couple years ago and pegged the US game market at around $10 billion with Europe and Asia where quite a bit less.
it is? well europe has more servers. so if sold 172k on NA means it sold more then 200k on europe.
What amuses the hell out of me is both sides of this argument are basing their entire arguments on muddled facts and guesses. People wanting the game to suck... well give it time and you might get your wish. People wanting it to succeed give it time, and these people may eat crow.
Either way, no one but Turbine employees, accountants, and isp's know what kind of traffic the servers are getting... so lets just all take a few deep breaths and relax.
That is not exactly true - the original numbers are released as part of mandated stockholder reports so unless there is some kind of Enron cook-the-books thing going on it is an accurate number. The estimation comes when taking that US number and extrapolating it to Europe and such which is not going to be spot on but should be ballpark.
Additionally, I think the 'battle' goes no not because fans of the game and non fans started it so much but because Turbine's own staff made such arrogant comments as to clearly imply the game was on its way to millions of subs. It doesn't help the matter that this site has been full of 'wow killer' proclimations and all sorts of other bragadocious comments by LotRO fans - finding out that the game is just barely ordinary in the face of the arrogant predictions is only naturally bring forth a bit of crow eating.
All I got to say is for someone who claims he could care less about the game you sure as hell spend more time on the LoTRO than you posting positives about your fave game AoC which by the way is looking more and more like it will be a Dark and Light release every day.
well, i'm from Europe and each day there are more and more players coming to Middle-Earth. It will sold even more, ppl just need to hear about it from their friends, like i heard about WOW and Guild Wars before.
We all know that this game or any other game will not ever beat wow ... the only thing that beats wow is time.
Lord of the rings is not a wow killer , its also not an overwellming sucses, but it is a very good mmo compared to the others out there, And im sure its here to stay for many years to come, whether you like it our not.
Now lets all be friends aigan, and who cares how many it sells, the sales are more then good enough to make a profit out of it.
Playing:World of Warcraft. Played:Lord of the Rings Online, Starwars Galaxies. Tried:Starwars the Old Republic, Everquest 2, Guild Wars, Vanguard, Age of Conan, Aion.
Nonsense. When were the actual game boxes sold, put through the inventory system, and picked up, thus registering a sale of the product? At the end of April. They could in 2Q. period. A pre-sale isn't a sale until the day it is run through a register and paid for as a final, released product. Give it up- with the number of servers, population on each...172K is it. Just accept it
Never though of it like that, You're probably right there. Not trying to deny anything or need to accept anything either. Just having a debate. I was only thinking it would add another 50k at the most anyway, not that it would really increase that number to anything spectacular. You seem to be making this out as a failure of some sort though.
calender quarters and business quarters are not always the same , but judging from the release of this data they might be.. However my wife is an accountant and one place she worked at the first business quarter began on 1 November and ended 31 January, second frm 1 Febuary til April etc etc. be that as it may those figures are only Midway's Box sales and do not include Codemaster sales or any other sales than Midways.
Also most games gain momentum for the first year, in particular ones of the quality of LoTRO. Gules you wish the game was a flop, but truth be told it is a overwhlming success and just looking at all the people wanting trial keys here is proof of that. Might as well give up kid, people love this game and all your troll posts are just a waste of time and energy. You should go find something constructive to do , you will feel better.
Not really sure that was called for. You can debate with people or not like what they say.
Yet to turn around and call the game an overwhelming success is just the same thing the "other" person is doing in reverse. No one here knows how the game is doing... what the expectations were.... numbers needed and in the end numbers retained.
So all of us can have an opinion but none of us can state fact.
I think it can just as easily be said that:
Based on the IP and the respective number of retained AND playing subscribers... One could easily compare this game to SWG. Lucky for you I don't see Turbine being stupid enough to pull an NGE type stunt with this game.
If you predate WoW as to what an outstanding success was... (when EQ1 still pretty much had the peak subscriber number of any NA based MMO)... Then yes this game is a success... just as SWG was...
Anyway.. the only reason I posted was you call the person you quoted a Troll... but pretty much you are doing the same thing. You don't have any more objective facts to base your assumption or accusation on.
Trial keys do not equate to Accounts... ever. Many games have trials... and they can have a lot of people try them or ask for keys (hell people still ask for vanguard keys...). That's not really a supportive piece of data.
The game had a smooth launch... is of good quality. I liked Lore Master the best out of all the classes.. but the game just didn't hold my attention.
Is it a bad game? No... just for me it didn't have the ability to keep me subscribed.
If I had planned on having 200$ laying around.. I might have gotten the lifetime sub.
Lets just say I can understand people who say they didn't like the game... or that it couldn't keep them interested. I still don't call it a bad game...
Gaming is a subjective experience...
and when you get the official subscriber data sheets from turbine let me know... until then claming how great the game is doing.. is just as much trolling as the guy you quoted.
Trial keys do not equate to Accounts... ever. Many games have trials... and they can have a lot of people try them or ask for keys (hell people still ask for vanguard keys...). That's not really a supportive piece of data..
Acttuly many games do include this is certian numbers. I forget which ones but they do.
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Never though of it like that, You're probably right there. Not trying to deny anything or need to accept anything either. Just having a debate. I was only thinking it would add another 50k at the most anyway, not that it would really increase that number to anything spectacular. You seem to be making this out as a failure of some sort though.
calender quarters and business quarters are not always the same , but judging from the release of this data they might be.. However my wife is an accountant and one place she worked at the first business quarter began on 1 November and ended 31 January, second frm 1 Febuary til April etc etc. be that as it may those figures are only Midway's Box sales and do not include Codemaster sales or any other sales than Midways.Also most games gain momentum for the first year, in particular ones of the quality of LoTRO. Gules you wish the game was a flop, but truth be told it is a overwhlming success and just looking at all the people wanting trial keys here is proof of that. Might as well give up kid, people love this game and all your troll posts are just a waste of time and energy. You should go find something constructive to do , you will feel better.
I miss DAoC
Never though of it like that, You're probably right there. Not trying to deny anything or need to accept anything either. Just having a debate. I was only thinking it would add another 50k at the most anyway, not that it would really increase that number to anything spectacular. You seem to be making this out as a failure of some sort though.
calender quarters and business quarters are not always the same , but judging from the release of this data they might be.. However my wife is an accountant and one place she worked at the first business quarter began on 1 November and ended 31 January, second frm 1 Febuary til April etc etc. be that as it may those figures are only Midway's Box sales and do not include Codemaster sales or any other sales than Midways.Also most games gain momentum for the first year, in particular ones of the quality of LoTRO. Gules you wish the game was a flop, but truth be told it is a overwhlming success and just looking at all the people wanting trial keys here is proof of that. Might as well give up kid, people love this game and all your troll posts are just a waste of time and energy. You should go find something constructive to do , you will feel better.
Not really sure that was called for. You can debate with people or not like what they say.
Yet to turn around and call the game an overwhelming success is just the same thing the "other" person is doing in reverse. No one here knows how the game is doing... what the expectations were.... numbers needed and in the end numbers retained.
So all of us can have an opinion but none of us can state fact.
I think it can just as easily be said that:
Based on the IP and the respective number of retained AND playing subscribers... One could easily compare this game to SWG. Lucky for you I don't see Turbine being stupid enough to pull an NGE type stunt with this game.
If you predate WoW as to what an outstanding success was... (when EQ1 still pretty much had the peak subscriber number of any NA based MMO)... Then yes this game is a success... just as SWG was...
Anyway.. the only reason I posted was you call the person you quoted a Troll... but pretty much you are doing the same thing. You don't have any more objective facts to base your assumption or accusation on.
Trial keys do not equate to Accounts... ever. Many games have trials... and they can have a lot of people try them or ask for keys (hell people still ask for vanguard keys...). That's not really a supportive piece of data.
The game had a smooth launch... is of good quality. I liked Lore Master the best out of all the classes.. but the game just didn't hold my attention.
Is it a bad game? No... just for me it didn't have the ability to keep me subscribed.
If I had planned on having 200$ laying around.. I might have gotten the lifetime sub.
Lets just say I can understand people who say they didn't like the game... or that it couldn't keep them interested. I still don't call it a bad game...
Gaming is a subjective experience...
and when you get the official subscriber data sheets from turbine let me know... until then claming how great the game is doing.. is just as much trolling as the guy you quoted.
For a major IP MMO - 172,000 in US (pressumably then 300-350,000 including Europe) is horrible. Consider that is boxes sold - not subs - so it is unlikely they even have 200k subs. Not bad for an average, profitable MMO - but terrible in terms of this being some WoW killer mega hit. Consider further that the game has had nearly ZERO competition in terms of new releases, and the failure that VG was (which sold more in its first month thatn did LotRO in the quarter) and it is pretty clear LotRO is a flop in terms of it being this allmighty next great MMO. In the end it is just another minor title, and I wonder if it is anywhere near making money given the IP and development had to cost a chunk of change.
Bored of the Rings Online indeed.
Sorry to pick on you but what kind of fanboy crack are you smoking? They release numbers saying 172,000 units sold (presumptively US only with Europe estimates around the same) and you then extrapolate that to say 350k subs? That is the most idiotic thing I have ever sold. From the published numbers it would seem unlikely they have even sold 350k boxes let alone gotten that many subs. Even you say your guild retension since launch is 50% so take the 172k announced and double it for Europe and cut that by 50% (which would be an incredible retention number BTW) and you still get a miserable number that shows people have mostly rejected the game).
Again - lay off the fanboy crack. most games pick up momentum the first year? msot games die miserable deaths of forgotten existance the first year. Jeez, what planet do you live on. Few games increase in sales over time. Do the math - LotRO cost at least 15 to 20 million to develop (even though they reused alot of DDOs stuff) and tha tlikely doesn't even cover the IP liscense. If they sold 350,000 boxes worldwide the first quarter then that would come to around 17,500,000 which means the first quarter of sales didn't even break even on development, likely not even close as I would wager the total cost of development is easily close to $30 million. Face it man, lotRO is another big IP failure from Turbine and while you may love it the facts of its lackluster sales are undeniable.
Another IP ruined by Turbine - think they will get a strike three? I doubt it.
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LOL if you don't like my opinions then don't read em.
Fact- Midway sold 179K boxes in the US during the second business quarter- what dates that encompasses is just specualtion
Fact- Codemasters sold a lot of boxes in Europe since release - anyones guess at the numbers but well over 100K probaly closer to 200K just guessing
Fact- Sakura distribute LoTRO in Japan no numbers released
Fact - The Australian distributer is Atari no numbers were released
Fact- beta testing has started in China, anyones guess on whether they game will be asuccess there or not
Fact- no Korean distribution is in effect at this time
Fact- stating that the game only sold 179 K copies is bullshit, saying that Midway sold 179k copies during the second quarter is a fact.
So yeah saying the game is a failure or that it only has 179K subs is bullshit and misrepresenting facts. If the game is such a failure then why do you guys continue to come over and bash it. It scares the hell out of you guys for some reason. or you would ignore it. You can't say that Turbine is trying to fool anyone since they are letting anyone try before buy, so obviously it is something else that motivates you. What that is only something that you know.
I miss DAoC
Fack - 179,000 US boxes sold for the full quarter post release for a major IP blockbuster title released with no competing new releases is TERRIBLE. Yet, in the face of this fact you invent 600k more copies sold and suppose 350k subscriptions when, clearly, the facts would suggest otherwise.
I don't much care one way or the other if LotRO sells 1 copy or one million, I think the game is as unoriginal and boring as any I have seen. That being said, with all the fanboys such as yourself running all over all year talking about LotRO as the WoW killer and the greatest thing since sliced bread I find it pleasant to see the facts suggesting it is remarkably unremarkable in terms of sales.
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get your facts straight Smith . Where did I ever say the game sold a million copies? Please post a link to where I said that in a post In this very thread post number 16 I speculated around 300K to 350 K subs worldwide, which includes N America, Australia, Japan, and Europe. I really don't know what the numbers are but I do know the N American servers are sure as hell not empty. I also know the game is far from a failure.
Oh and you obviously care for some reason other wise you would not bother coming over to bash it in between fanboy posts on the AoC forum. Now I suppose you will show how much you don't care by coming back to the thread and making another post
I wonder if I should make a sig saying I have a Cray to boost my credibility ?
I miss DAoC
Well, if you believe this guy is a former employee.
http://www.voig.com/Forums.html?aTopicPath=voigContentListGlobalContentListForumListGeneralMMOGDataLOTROstats
So, that leaves us with 40,000 sold in UK only, but nobody knows how many are still subscribed.
So, that leaves us with 40,000 sold in UK only, but nobody knows how many are still subscribed.
So some guy come on to some small off the wall board and says I am an ex employee and hetre are the numbers then you go around and quote them as fact
Try doing a google on LoTRO Europe sales next time. No firm numbers but it was the number one best selling game over there for several weeks.
The Lord of the Rings Online was also the best-selling PC game in Europe during the same period, based on data from the UK's Chart-Track, France's GfK, and Germany's Media Control.
pc.ign.com/articles/787/787187p1.html
I am too lazy to find more at this time but it probably slod more there than the US.
I miss DAoC
To refer back to Jack's post about it unseating WoW if you check IGN it has total gross sales for the first month of each game. For an expansion with a base of 8.5million people at the time and the release of LoTR:O to only be spaced by less than a million $ is rather impressive in their respective release months.
Now I understand people were going on about o this game is going to outsell WoW or something, but be realistic. WoW is available in almost every country on earth that can get ahold of it due to all of their translation firms. Now this may hurt some of the Wow fanbois but really, get over it. LoTR:O is a good solid game that has brought innovative ideas to the table while Blizzard continues to steal ideas from other MMo's and market it as theirs.
All in all 172k boxes sold in NA in a 3month period is absolutely fantastic for them. Just look at their stock around the time of their quarterly earnings report with LoTR:O being one of their highlights.
Once again I have to point out that the 172 K boxes were Midways N American sales for the second business quarter which does not include any numbers for any sales outside N American retailers. For some reason people seem to forget that N America is a very small part of the world. What will tell the tale is when it is released in China and Korea. I have a feeling that the subscription in those 2 countries alone will push LoTRO well over the 1 million mark.
I miss DAoC
You just said it again in your objection to my post - you speculate that it has 350k subs which would take around 1 million or so units sold.
North America is easily the largest market for Turbine, by far. Part of the whole - yes; but clearly the biggest part. The last numbers I recall specifically in this context was from a couple years ago and pegged the US game market at around $10 billion with Europe and Asia where quite a bit less.
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First of all, I never claimed it was fact.
Secondly, I was talking about UK only, not all of Europe.
Wow - some sales record that link mentions...
"May 10, 2007 - The Lord of the Rings Online is enjoying a strong start right out of the gate. Publisher Midway and developer Turbine have announced the game was the best-selling PC title in North America the week of April 22-28, the week of its release."
So let me get this straight, for ONE week LotRO sold better than the nothing else that was released? Give me a break - LotRO was launched in a near perfect vaccume - WoW is old and people are cranky about it even if still playing, VG was a bust by that time, and NOTHINg else was out in the genre or coming anytime soon. And all they can do is brag about being #1 in sales that week and going on to selling 172k US units the whole quarter after? That is pretty week and if you cannot admit that you have problems with reality.
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What amuses the hell out of me is both sides of this argument are basing their entire arguments on muddled facts and guesses. People wanting the game to suck... well give it time and you might get your wish. People wanting it to succeed give it time, and these people may eat crow.
Either way, no one but Turbine employees, accountants, and isp's know what kind of traffic the servers are getting... so lets just all take a few deep breaths and relax.
You just said it again in your objection to my post - you speculate that it has 350k subs which would take around 1 million or so units sold.
North America is easily the largest market for Turbine, by far. Part of the whole - yes; but clearly the biggest part. The last numbers I recall specifically in this context was from a couple years ago and pegged the US game market at around $10 billion with Europe and Asia where quite a bit less.
it is? well europe has more servers. so if sold 172k on NA means it sold more then 200k on europe.
and what about these 100k only on UK at release?www.lotro-europe.com/news.php
That is not exactly true - the original numbers are released as part of mandated stockholder reports so unless there is some kind of Enron cook-the-books thing going on it is an accurate number. The estimation comes when taking that US number and extrapolating it to Europe and such which is not going to be spot on but should be ballpark.
Additionally, I think the 'battle' goes no not because fans of the game and non fans started it so much but because Turbine's own staff made such arrogant comments as to clearly imply the game was on its way to millions of subs. It doesn't help the matter that this site has been full of 'wow killer' proclimations and all sorts of other bragadocious comments by LotRO fans - finding out that the game is just barely ordinary in the face of the arrogant predictions is only naturally bring forth a bit of crow eating.
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No thanks, I think I'll wait it out for Hairspray Online (sarcasm)
All I got to say is for someone who claims he could care less about the game you sure as hell spend more time on the LoTRO than you posting positives about your fave game AoC which by the way is looking more and more like it will be a Dark and Light release every day.
I miss DAoC
Off-topic, but Jackdog, what server are you on?
I only ask because 1) I recognize you from the VG board and 2) I noticed you're also from SC.
Random, sorry!
Waiting for something fresh to arrive on the MMO scene...
No, what is it with LOTR that makes people not able to count.
11 servers is not more then 12 servers.
(In reference to that 108 servers would be just slightly less then 457.)
I'm so broke. I can't even pay attention.
"You have the right not to be killed"
well, i'm from Europe and each day there are more and more players coming to Middle-Earth. It will sold even more, ppl just need to hear about it from their friends, like i heard about WOW and Guild Wars before.
Lotro - Dwarf Champion
WOW - Undead Warrior
Silverlode
I miss DAoC
Guys guys guys.... please just stop the fighting.
We all know that this game or any other game will not ever beat wow ... the only thing that beats wow is time.
Lord of the rings is not a wow killer , its also not an overwellming sucses, but it is a very good mmo compared to the others out there, And im sure its here to stay for many years to come, whether you like it our not.
Now lets all be friends aigan, and who cares how many it sells, the sales are more then good enough to make a profit out of it.
Playing: World of Warcraft.
Played: Lord of the Rings Online, Starwars Galaxies.
Tried: Starwars the Old Republic, Everquest 2, Guild Wars, Vanguard, Age of Conan, Aion.
Never though of it like that, You're probably right there. Not trying to deny anything or need to accept anything either. Just having a debate. I was only thinking it would add another 50k at the most anyway, not that it would really increase that number to anything spectacular. You seem to be making this out as a failure of some sort though.
calender quarters and business quarters are not always the same , but judging from the release of this data they might be.. However my wife is an accountant and one place she worked at the first business quarter began on 1 November and ended 31 January, second frm 1 Febuary til April etc etc. be that as it may those figures are only Midway's Box sales and do not include Codemaster sales or any other sales than Midways.Also most games gain momentum for the first year, in particular ones of the quality of LoTRO. Gules you wish the game was a flop, but truth be told it is a overwhlming success and just looking at all the people wanting trial keys here is proof of that. Might as well give up kid, people love this game and all your troll posts are just a waste of time and energy. You should go find something constructive to do , you will feel better.
Not really sure that was called for. You can debate with people or not like what they say.
Yet to turn around and call the game an overwhelming success is just the same thing the "other" person is doing in reverse. No one here knows how the game is doing... what the expectations were.... numbers needed and in the end numbers retained.
So all of us can have an opinion but none of us can state fact.
I think it can just as easily be said that:
Based on the IP and the respective number of retained AND playing subscribers... One could easily compare this game to SWG. Lucky for you I don't see Turbine being stupid enough to pull an NGE type stunt with this game.
If you predate WoW as to what an outstanding success was... (when EQ1 still pretty much had the peak subscriber number of any NA based MMO)... Then yes this game is a success... just as SWG was...
Anyway.. the only reason I posted was you call the person you quoted a Troll... but pretty much you are doing the same thing. You don't have any more objective facts to base your assumption or accusation on.
Trial keys do not equate to Accounts... ever. Many games have trials... and they can have a lot of people try them or ask for keys (hell people still ask for vanguard keys...). That's not really a supportive piece of data.
The game had a smooth launch... is of good quality. I liked Lore Master the best out of all the classes.. but the game just didn't hold my attention.
Is it a bad game? No... just for me it didn't have the ability to keep me subscribed.
If I had planned on having 200$ laying around.. I might have gotten the lifetime sub.
Lets just say I can understand people who say they didn't like the game... or that it couldn't keep them interested. I still don't call it a bad game...
Gaming is a subjective experience...
and when you get the official subscriber data sheets from turbine let me know... until then claming how great the game is doing.. is just as much trolling as the guy you quoted.
Trial keys do not equate to Accounts... ever. Many games have trials... and they can have a lot of people try them or ask for keys (hell people still ask for vanguard keys...). That's not really a supportive piece of data..Acttuly many games do include this is certian numbers. I forget which ones but they do.
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