I never claimed it was going bottoms up or anything of the sort in this thread or any other. As for the numbers, they are not that good, period. Go on spinning otherwise but we all know reality is that the game hasn't been the blockbuster smash it was touted to be by its creators and their hype machine and by its fanboys. I mean somene said a post or two back 'use facts from both sides' as if this is subjective. THE GAME SOLD 172k NORTH AMERICAN COPIES - there is no point/counterpoint - no looking for something else to average against that. That isn't so great, and while it doesn't suck by itself (allthough one could says it sucks given the expectations and the hype and the largess of the IP not to mention the absolute vacuum in new MMOs now) it is ABSOLUTELY, UNDENIABLY not great. Weighed against the proclamations of WoW type millkions of subs from Turbine, the hype machine, and from the fans here adn elsewhere it is fair to say 172k NA sales is relatively bad. God I am so sick of the absolute stupidity on this site, being a fan is one thing but denying reality is quite another.
The simple point you seem to be unable to grasp was that was only the sales for the first 9 weeks in North America. I would not be surprised if the European numbers were even higher. 9 Weeks is not even a full quarter, it is just 2 months and 1 week. April 24 to June 30. You keep making it sound like that was the only copies it ever sold and will never sell another. Dude the game has been in GameBizs top 10 for 3 months straight.
I mean other than WoW which really has a life of it's own what MMORPG can you name that has done better ? Please post some links and educate me. I mean if you really expect any MMMORPG to equal or beat WoW's numbers then you are the most optimistic( being nice here) person on the internet.
Believe what you want man, you are reasoning with your emotions and not your brain. People tried to point out that it is not that big a sales number but you don't want to believe it so go ahead with whatever you want to think. I believe the number and arguments I have made show LotRO to be an average game at best in terms of sales/popularity, in no way is it off to be the WoW killer million sub game so many have claimed around here and that is the real point.
Believe what you want man, you are reasoning with your emotions and not your brain. People tried to point out that it is not that big a sales number but you don't want to believe it so go ahead with whatever you want to think. I believe the number and arguments I have made show LotRO to be an average game at best in terms of sales/popularity, in no way is it off to be the WoW killer million sub game so many have claimed around here and that is the real point.
I am reasoning with facts and figures, GameBiz sales charts are not opinions. You have a opinion and whether it is right or wrong you are entitled to it. But don't try and spin 9 weeks of sales in one market into doom and gloom. In particular when those 9 weeks of sales are in the top ten of all PC game sales on the charts.
You keep saying people claimed it to be a WoW killer. Post a link to those claims please. I know I sure as hell have never said any such thing, anyone who has is just delusional
I mean other than WoW which really has a life of it's own what MMORPG can you name that has done better ? Please post some links and educate me. I mean if you really expect any MMMORPG to equal or beat WoW's numbers then you are the most optimistic( being nice here) person on the internet.
EQ
EQ2
DAOC
SWG
Lineage and Lineage 2
CoH/CoV
Guild Wars
FFXI
Ragnarok
Every one of those built a bigger NA subscriber base. And everyone of them held onto it for some time. EQ2 STILL has a bigger subscriber base here in NA. The last expansion sold twice as many copies as LOTRO has. I remember seeing 200K + concurrent on DAOC (not often, no, but it stayed at 75-100K for years).
The plain fact is this: 1 in 5 or 6 people who try LOTRO think it's worth a purchase. Our once 120 member beta kinship ended up with about 18 actual purchases of the game. It's bland, easy, childlike, tears Tolkiens lore to shreds, and will only satisfy someone with very low or no expectations. That's showing in the sales figures.
There are a couple of things that need to be clarified and someone with a business backround should be able to figure it out from reading Midway's Financial report. #1. When do Midway's Quarters begin and end and...
I can answer that one . Midways sales quarters follow the calender year. So those sales would be N American box sales between April 24th release and June 30 or about 67 days worth of sales for N America only. No numbers were released for Codemasters European sales, although the game was a chart topper there for several weeks. Atari's numbers for Austrailia and Sakuru's numbers for Japan are not in that figure either. So really the 172 K is simply the tip of the iceburg although some here want to spin it into something it is not.
The origianl gist of the article was that LoTRO was the best selling game Midway had for the quarter. I quote from the article
Meanwhile, the Wii edition of Mortal Kombat: Armageddon only moved about 38,500 units, and the critically drubbed Hour of Victory sold just 16,456 units at retail domestically.
the only thing the article said about LoTRO was
With solid reviews, The Lord of the Rings Online: Shadows of Angmar sold over 172,000 copies during the quarter, including the special edition of the game
Apparantly both Midway and Turbine are pleased with LoTRO's sales
here is what MMORPG.com said in last weeks interview
While Jeff, not surprisingly, wouldn't talk about exact figures, the success of the game is difficult to deny, just look at the shelf of your local game store. I know the EB down the road to me has an entire shelf dedicated to the game.
While he wouldn't talk about specific numbers, Jeff did say this: "We are tracking to the plan we had for bringing this game out into the market. We know we launched successfully... and now we're looking at how we can reach out to a larger audience."
"We're growing in every possible direction," said Jeffrey, speaking about the game's success. He went on to tell me that not only did they have a simultaneous launch in North America and Europe, but that the game has been as successful with the Europeans as it was here in NA. "This IP has a native resonance with them in the same way it does for North Americans."
Beyond those two markets, Germany, I am told is a big market for the game and with the game already launched in Japan and a Chinese launch coming up (as well as other parts of Asia), the future looks bright for this game in terms of overall subscribers.
Your want to talk about spin? Your doing the same thing by assuming LOTRO will sell just as well or better overseas.
Where did I assume anything in my post? I don't think anyone ewith even half a brain would assume that 9 weeks of sales from one market area is more than a fraction of total sales. There is a hell of a lot more gamers than just those in N America you know. I am a American and I would never be so arrogant as to assume otherwise. Even WoW only has 2 million players in N America
IRVINE, Calif. – January 11, 2007 – Blizzard Entertainment, Inc. announced today that World of Warcraft®, its subscription-based massively multiplayer online role-playing game (MMORPG), is now played by more than 8 million gamers around the world. World of Warcraft has also achieved new regional subscriber milestones, with more than 2 million players in North America, more than 1.5 million players in Europe, and more than 3.5 million players in China.
Oh and it does look like Chinese do count as subscriptions so any numers LoTROP has there will also count toward their subscription numbers after all.
First thing, the North American market isn't a "fraction" of sales if by "fraction" you mean a small amount. North American sales make up a huge percent of potential sales for any product, whether its mmo's or cars. Second point is one I've mentioned in this thread before but you've conveniently decided not to address is the fact that western mmo's DO NOT sell well in Asia, especially for an IP based on a piece of English language literature. You being too optimistic in your expectations of how well LOTRO will do in Asia. I can almost guarantee you it won't do anything in Japan because Japan is a console market, period. Its hard to even find pc games there. Again I'll ask you, name me a western mmo other than WoW that has done well in Asia? As for Europe...doesn't seem its doing as well as you would like to based on how lonely this guy is on the LOTRO euro forums.www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/142844
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
Believe what you want man, you are reasoning with your emotions and not your brain. People tried to point out that it is not that big a sales number but you don't want to believe it so go ahead with whatever you want to think. I believe the number and arguments I have made show LotRO to be an average game at best in terms of sales/popularity, in no way is it off to be the WoW killer million sub game so many have claimed around here and that is the real point.
I am reasoning with facts and figures, GameBiz sales charts are not opinions. You have a opinion and whether it is right or wrong you are entitled to it. But don't try and spin 9 weeks of sales in one market into doom and gloom. In particular when those 9 weeks of sales are in the top ten of all PC game sales on the charts.
You keep saying people claimed it to be a WoW killer. Post a link to those claims please. I know I sure as hell have never said any such thing, anyone who has is just delusional
The fact remains that this game is good for the first 3mths and then it hits a brick wall.It doesnt decline slowly it just collapse's completly.
I only played this for almost 2mths in beta (of which the 1st month was great) however for me boredom actually took hold during the 2nd month's testing. Once you do hit max lvl you really don't have that much to go for, there is a form of pvp you can do, though this is really something they threw in as an afterthought to try and bring in certain players, but it fails. The only thing i can think of is to re-roll a 2nd character and play again, then a 3rd then a 4th by which time you would be sick to death. However having said that, it is still way better than some games out there. Just the price per month was too high for what the game is, at £9p.m (thats around $19-$20).
The fact remains that this game is good for the first 3mths and then it hits a brick wall.It doesnt decline slowly it just collapse's completly. I only played this for almost 2mths in beta (of which the 1st month was great) however for me boredom actually took hold during the 2nd month's testing. Once you do hit max lvl you really don't have that much to go for, there is a form of pvp you can do, though this is really something they threw in as an afterthought to try and bring in certain players, but it fails. The only thing i can think of is to re-roll a 2nd character and play again, then a 3rd then a 4th by which time you would be sick to death. However having said that, it is still way better than some games out there. Just the price per month was too high for what the game is, at £9p.m (thats around $19-$20). Lifespan 6mths tops for the average gamer.
The second major update is coming out this month. Also, have you seen the map in the game? Only a fraction of it (Eriador) is implemented so far.
Talk about lifespan
DB
Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.
Believe what you want man, you are reasoning with your emotions and not your brain. People tried to point out that it is not that big a sales number but you don't want to believe it so go ahead with whatever you want to think. I believe the number and arguments I have made show LotRO to be an average game at best in terms of sales/popularity, in no way is it off to be the WoW killer million sub game so many have claimed around here and that is the real point.
I am reasoning with facts and figures, GameBiz sales charts are not opinions. You have a opinion and whether it is right or wrong you are entitled to it. But don't try and spin 9 weeks of sales in one market into doom and gloom. In particular when those 9 weeks of sales are in the top ten of all PC game sales on the charts.
You keep saying people claimed it to be a WoW killer. Post a link to those claims please. I know I sure as hell have never said any such thing, anyone who has is just delusional
Post us only 1 example from anyone on these boards saying that 1, LOTRO will be the second WOW, or 2, it will be a smashing, extraordinary hit, or 3, it will sell over a million copies in 6 months....
These things exist only in your head, and it is handy when you need something to back up your pointless arguments. As I wrote before: none of the players could care less how many copies LOTRO sold, as long as developers keep the updates coming.
But worry not it is clear where the thorn hurting your downpart is: haters predictions of LOTRO falling after a couple of months are not only proven to be wrong, but actually these boards (and other ones too) are flooded with trial key requests. No, the game is not even losing popularity, sorry. If it eases the pain, please go on saying things you make up from your mind (like the points 1-3 above).
You're welcome to be listened to, we are pleasantly entertained
Funny though, that you gave a link to Wikipedia describing exactly what you're doing... subconscious or irony?
DB
Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.
The simple point you seem to be unable to grasp was that was only the sales for the first 9 weeks in North America. I would not be surprised if the European numbers were even higher. 9 Weeks is not even a full quarter, it is just 2 months and 1 week. April 24 to June 30. You keep making it sound like that was the only copies it ever sold and will never sell another. Dude the game has been in GameBizs top 10 for 3 months straight.
I mean other than WoW which really has a life of it's own what MMORPG can you name that has done better ? Please post some links and educate me. I mean if you really expect any MMMORPG to equal or beat WoW's numbers then you are the most optimistic( being nice here) person on the internet.
In June it was #9. In July so far it is not in the top 10 at all. In fact, it is getting beat out by games like Nancy Drew, The Sims, etc.
1. World Of Warcraft
2. World Of Warcraft: Burning Crusade
3. The Sims 2 Deluxe
4.The Sims 2 H&M Fashion Stuff
5. The Sims 2 Seasons
6. Nancy Drew: The White Wolf Of Icicle Creek
7. Harry Potter & The Order Of The Phoenix
8. Command & Conquer 3: Tiberium Wars
9. Transformers: The Game
10. Battlefield 2142
As far as what games have done better - well there are quite a few actually. Looking over the past stats at GameDaily I easily found 5 mmo's, besides WOW, that sold over 500K - including EQ2, 2 EQ2 expansions, The Sims Online (horrible though it is..), C&C, etc.
If you want to talk about all time, then there are also several games that beat it badly - even old EQ has sold over 14 million total boxes since it's release in 1999 (including expansions). I personally doubt that LOTRO will ever be a major player, though it will probably survive for years as a niche game.
I mean other than WoW which really has a life of it's own what MMORPG can you name that has done better ? Please post some links and educate me. I mean if you really expect any MMMORPG to equal or beat WoW's numbers then you are the most optimistic( being nice here) person on the internet.
EQ
EQ2
DAOC
SWG
Lineage and Lineage 2
CoH/CoV
Guild Wars
FFXI
Ragnarok
ou got links to prove that Gules or aer you just making more stuff up and trying to twist figures?
So what you are saying is that those games sold more than 172K copies in 9 weeks just in N America?Show me the figures Gules. I bet you cannot show me where any other MMORPG except WoW that sold more than 172K copies in the N American market in the first 9 weeks.Post links to legit prove it, other wise you are just pulling your "facts" out of thin air.
Every one of those built a bigger NA subscriber base. And everyone of them held onto it for some time. EQ2 STILL has a bigger subscriber base here in NA. The last expansion sold twice as many copies as LOTRO has. I remember seeing 200K + concurrent on DAOC (not often, no, but it stayed at 75-100K for years). Once again the 172K is just for the first 9 Weeks. Lets compare apples to apples and oranges to oranges. 9 weeks , I repeat 9 weeks of N American sales. Not what those games sold worlwide, or what they sold in their first year. Quit trying to manipualte figures. The plain fact is this: 1 in 5 or 6 people who try LOTRO think it's worth a purchase. Our once 120 member beta kinship ended up with about 18 actual purchases of the game. It's bland, easy, childlike, tears Tolkiens lore to shreds, and will only satisfy someone with very low or no expectations. That's showing in the sales figures. Where are links to solid figures yo back up those "facts" Or is that is not a fact and just numbers you are pulling out your ass? Why not just make a signature that says that you hate LoTRO and make each of your posts nothing more than a smiley face and a sig? Everyone knows you hate the game by now,also it is becomming plain that all your facts are just your prejudices. Guess what? Tthe people buying and doing the trials don't really give a flying rats ass whether you hate it or love it. The game has been a critical success in every professional review it has recieved., Quite bluntly your opinion means nothing to anyone except you.
Post us only 1 example from anyone on these boards saying that 1, LOTRO will be the second WOW, or 2, it will be a smashing, extraordinary hit, or 3, it will sell over a million copies in 6 months.... These things exist only in your head, and it is handy when you need something to back up your pointless arguments. As I wrote before: none of the players could care less how many copies LOTRO sold, as long as developers keep the updates coming. But worry not it is clear where the thorn hurting your downpart is: haters predictions of LOTRO falling after a couple of months are not only proven to be wrong, but actually these boards (and other ones too) are flooded with trial key requests. No, the game is not even losing popularity, sorry. If it eases the pain, please go on saying things you make up from your mind (like the points 1-3 above). You're welcome to be listened to, we are pleasantly entertained Funny though, that you gave a link to Wikipedia describing exactly what you're doing... subconscious or irony? DB
So you get to say people thought lotro would fail but we (people who dislike lotro) cant say you thought it was the coming of the messiah for mmo's? They are both equally false because they are both equally absurd everyone knew it would get subs just from being lotr. Everyone also knew that it could never beat WoW because well... its WoW. To all the lotro haters dont bother bashing the game everyone who has played it and left knows what its like and you cant convince someone enjoying the game that it sucks because for them it doesnt.
Post us only 1 example from anyone on these boards saying that 1, LOTRO will be the second WOW, or 2, it will be a smashing, extraordinary hit, or 3, it will sell over a million copies in 6 months.... These things exist only in your head, and it is handy when you need something to back up your pointless arguments. As I wrote before: none of the players could care less how many copies LOTRO sold, as long as developers keep the updates coming. But worry not it is clear where the thorn hurting your downpart is: haters predictions of LOTRO falling after a couple of months are not only proven to be wrong, but actually these boards (and other ones too) are flooded with trial key requests. No, the game is not even losing popularity, sorry. If it eases the pain, please go on saying things you make up from your mind (like the points 1-3 above). You're welcome to be listened to, we are pleasantly entertained Funny though, that you gave a link to Wikipedia describing exactly what you're doing... subconscious or irony? DB
So you get to say people thought lotro would fail but we (people who dislike lotro) cant say you thought it was the coming of the messiah for mmo's? They are both equally false because they are both equally absurd everyone knew it would get subs just from being lotr. Everyone also knew that it could never beat WoW because well... its WoW. To all the lotro haters dont bother bashing the game everyone who has played it and left knows what its like and you cant convince someone enjoying the game that it sucks because for them it doesnt.
Dude, I have no idea what you thought when lotro launched. Parallelly, you have NO idea what I did and do think, so don't assume, unless you wish to sound ridiculous. (maybe too late, sorry).
Some people predicted that LOTRO will fail.
I (and some of us) said it won't fail. Not less, not more.
Who was wrong - and who cries now? Think about it.
DB
Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.
In recent industry reports, LOTRO has been listed as the #1 selling PC title across North America and Europe. LOTRO has outsold all other PC games across North America, Germany, United Kingdom and France according to data from the NPD Group, a leading provider of consumer and retail information in North America, and similar organizations including Chart-Track in the United Kingdom, GfK in France, and Media Control in Germany. Since its launch, LOTRO has also been well received by gaming critics around the globe:
In recent industry reports, LOTRO has been listed as the #1 selling PC title across North America and Europe. LOTRO has outsold all other PC games across North America, Germany, United Kingdom and France according to data from the NPD Group, a leading provider of consumer and retail information in North America, and similar organizations including Chart-Track in the United Kingdom, GfK in France, and Media Control in Germany. Since its launch, LOTRO has also been well received by gaming critics around the globe:
They surely must be in bad denial....
DB
Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.
well, it doesn't matter if you are a fan or not, or what the critiques say (I remember when e.g. the movie "The Mummy" came out: horrible rating, but the audience loved it) - the users count. if they like it and play it no matter how good or bad .... *shrugs*
172 k boxes in us, say ca 350 k downloads = ca 500k. europe is smaller, give it a total of 100k? that is 600k. not too bad considering that they want to reach 1 million soon.
but, at the same time scary - a title like this with all the developement.... how will AOC or WAR do? STO already said they will do a WoW clone basically, due to the high risk with the licence.....
well, it doesn't matter if you are a fan or not, or what the critiques say (I remember when e.g. the movie "The Mummy" came out: horrible rating, but the audience loved it) - the users count. if they like it and play it no matter how good or bad .... *shrugs* 172 k boxes in us, say ca 350 k downloads = ca 500k. europe is smaller, give it a total of 100k? that is 600k. not too bad considering that they want to reach 1 million soon. but, at the same time scary - a title like this with all the developement.... how will AOC or WAR do? STO already said they will do a WoW clone basically, due to the high risk with the licence.....
That is called segmentation of a growing (but not as quickly growing as 2-3 years ago) market.
PVE'rs go to LOTRO, PVP people go to WAR, l33t kidz stay in WOW (i pray for this!)
BTW if US sales as 500k, Europe is nowhere close to 100k - it is much much higher than that. NA market is not bigger then Europe, and the IP is just as strong here (thanks to the movies mostly, but personally I have read Tolkien when I was 15 - and that was before the fall of the "iron curtain"....)
DB
Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.
second if anything War and AOC are more anticipated than lotro so i wouldnt worry bout them.
heh getting a bit off topic here arn't we? The topic is LoTRO sold 179 copies in N America in 9 weeks, is that a good figure or not. By the way since you brought it up WAR might be decent but from all the signs AoC will probably not have a very smooth release. Which is a shame because I was looking forward to AoC, but WAR's graphics are not my taste.
PVE'rs go to LOTRO, PVP people go to WAR, l33t kidz stay in WOW (i pray for this!)
Or you could say
l33t kidz goes to LOTRO, l33t kids goes to WAR, l33t goes to next hyped coolest game.
And those that you actually want to play with. Those people that you dont know yet or even may not get to know, but that will make you enjoy your game regardless because of their 'spirit'. Those that rather plays with their friends, may it be old friends or new friends met ingame in guilds etc, those player that play for fun as in FUN rather then being on top brawling to raided this and that showing this and that best gear.
Those peopl will endure the s.c. bad community in WoW rather then leave because they have their friends to play with so they jsut occastionaly notice the bad of the community.
If those friends would leave WoW sales of LOTR:O would skyrocket.
DB, i aint saying lotro is crap, i was just saying for the average game player the game has a 6mth lifespan (half that for the mmo games player). Lotro would probably be a good game to start with for new online players. The game isnt a flop, but i can hardly call it a hit either, its an average game. Monthly subscription price is a bit high, so that would also deteur any mmo gamesplayer off because of a lack of things to do.
What i look for in an mmo is 1-questing, this game had some nice quests, and even brought in a new thoughtline of this type and skilling up. 2-crafting. however the crafting in lotro was crap. the items were next to useless because you got better in drops than what you actually crafted. and finally 3- pvp. lotro is not in this aspect, but this is known beforehand anyways.
I am happy that Lotro has that many, sadly from what I see alot of people "tried" the game and didn't enjoy there experience, however when I played I had 0 problems with the community, everyone was nice, even though I was a low level, where other people would be rude. I am more of a PvP guy, but if you prefer PvE/solo'ing this is the best of its type.
Though we have heard of stupid haste in war, cleverness has never been seen associated with long delays. -Sun Tzu, the Art of War
179K is good figures, and my guess is Turbine are pretty happy with the way things have gone so far.
I was one who tried it and lost interest pretty fast like many. Then again, many who tried it are sticking with it, so to each their own. The game is average imo, nothing to great or innovative at all to me. The whole thing has a "been there, done that" feeling to it, but for doing the exact same game(s) I've played in a new skin, its polished and done well.
My guess is LOTRO will never reach 1 million, since some pretty high profile and anticipated games are coming. But LOTRO will do well for awhile, especially if they can fix the game-breaking, clunky, and annoying (for me anyway) linked quest system.
Comments
I never claimed it was going bottoms up or anything of the sort in this thread or any other. As for the numbers, they are not that good, period. Go on spinning otherwise but we all know reality is that the game hasn't been the blockbuster smash it was touted to be by its creators and their hype machine and by its fanboys. I mean somene said a post or two back 'use facts from both sides' as if this is subjective. THE GAME SOLD 172k NORTH AMERICAN COPIES - there is no point/counterpoint - no looking for something else to average against that. That isn't so great, and while it doesn't suck by itself (allthough one could says it sucks given the expectations and the hype and the largess of the IP not to mention the absolute vacuum in new MMOs now) it is ABSOLUTELY, UNDENIABLY not great. Weighed against the proclamations of WoW type millkions of subs from Turbine, the hype machine, and from the fans here adn elsewhere it is fair to say 172k NA sales is relatively bad. God I am so sick of the absolute stupidity on this site, being a fan is one thing but denying reality is quite another.
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Achiever 60.00%, Socializer 53.00%, Killer 47.00%, Explorer 40.00%
Intel Core i7 Quad, Intel X58 SLi, 6G Corsair XMS DDR3, Intel X-25 SSD, 3 WD Velociraptor SATA SuperTrak SAS EX8650 Array, OCZ 1250W PS, GTX 295, xFi, 32" 1080p LCD
The simple point you seem to be unable to grasp was that was only the sales for the first 9 weeks in North America. I would not be surprised if the European numbers were even higher. 9 Weeks is not even a full quarter, it is just 2 months and 1 week. April 24 to June 30. You keep making it sound like that was the only copies it ever sold and will never sell another. Dude the game has been in GameBizs top 10 for 3 months straight.
In April it was the number 1 PC game biz.gamedaily.com/charts/
In May it was the #4 PC game biz.gamedaily.com/charts/
In June it was #9 biz.gamedaily.com/charts/
I mean other than WoW which really has a life of it's own what MMORPG can you name that has done better ? Please post some links and educate me. I mean if you really expect any MMMORPG to equal or beat WoW's numbers then you are the most optimistic( being nice here) person on the internet.
I miss DAoC
Believe what you want man, you are reasoning with your emotions and not your brain. People tried to point out that it is not that big a sales number but you don't want to believe it so go ahead with whatever you want to think. I believe the number and arguments I have made show LotRO to be an average game at best in terms of sales/popularity, in no way is it off to be the WoW killer million sub game so many have claimed around here and that is the real point.
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Achiever 60.00%, Socializer 53.00%, Killer 47.00%, Explorer 40.00%
Intel Core i7 Quad, Intel X58 SLi, 6G Corsair XMS DDR3, Intel X-25 SSD, 3 WD Velociraptor SATA SuperTrak SAS EX8650 Array, OCZ 1250W PS, GTX 295, xFi, 32" 1080p LCD
I am reasoning with facts and figures, GameBiz sales charts are not opinions. You have a opinion and whether it is right or wrong you are entitled to it. But don't try and spin 9 weeks of sales in one market into doom and gloom. In particular when those 9 weeks of sales are in the top ten of all PC game sales on the charts.
You keep saying people claimed it to be a WoW killer. Post a link to those claims please. I know I sure as hell have never said any such thing, anyone who has is just delusional
I miss DAoC
EQ2
DAOC
SWG
Lineage and Lineage 2
CoH/CoV
Guild Wars
FFXI
Ragnarok
Every one of those built a bigger NA subscriber base. And everyone of them held onto it for some time. EQ2 STILL has a bigger subscriber base here in NA. The last expansion sold twice as many copies as LOTRO has. I remember seeing 200K + concurrent on DAOC (not often, no, but it stayed at 75-100K for years).
The plain fact is this: 1 in 5 or 6 people who try LOTRO think it's worth a purchase. Our once 120 member beta kinship ended up with about 18 actual purchases of the game. It's bland, easy, childlike, tears Tolkiens lore to shreds, and will only satisfy someone with very low or no expectations. That's showing in the sales figures.
Bite me, Turbine.
I can answer that one . Midways sales quarters follow the calender year. So those sales would be N American box sales between April 24th release and June 30 or about 67 days worth of sales for N America only. No numbers were released for Codemasters European sales, although the game was a chart topper there for several weeks. Atari's numbers for Austrailia and Sakuru's numbers for Japan are not in that figure either. So really the 172 K is simply the tip of the iceburg although some here want to spin it into something it is not.
The origianl gist of the article was that LoTRO was the best selling game Midway had for the quarter. I quote from the article
http://www.gamespot.com/news/6176030.html
Meanwhile, the Wii edition of Mortal Kombat: Armageddon only moved about 38,500 units, and the critically drubbed Hour of Victory sold just 16,456 units at retail domestically.
the only thing the article said about LoTRO was
With solid reviews, The Lord of the Rings Online: Shadows of Angmar sold over 172,000 copies during the quarter, including the special edition of the game
Apparantly both Midway and Turbine are pleased with LoTRO's sales
here is what MMORPG.com said in last weeks interview
www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/setview/features/loadFeature/1377/gameID/45
By the Numbers
While Jeff, not surprisingly, wouldn't talk about exact figures, the success of the game is difficult to deny, just look at the shelf of your local game store. I know the EB down the road to me has an entire shelf dedicated to the game.
While he wouldn't talk about specific numbers, Jeff did say this: "We are tracking to the plan we had for bringing this game out into the market. We know we launched successfully... and now we're looking at how we can reach out to a larger audience."
"We're growing in every possible direction," said Jeffrey, speaking about the game's success. He went on to tell me that not only did they have a simultaneous launch in North America and Europe, but that the game has been as successful with the Europeans as it was here in NA. "This IP has a native resonance with them in the same way it does for North Americans."
Beyond those two markets, Germany, I am told is a big market for the game and with the game already launched in Japan and a Chinese launch coming up (as well as other parts of Asia), the future looks bright for this game in terms of overall subscribers.
Your want to talk about spin? Your doing the same thing by assuming LOTRO will sell just as well or better overseas.
Where did I assume anything in my post? I don't think anyone ewith even half a brain would assume that 9 weeks of sales from one market area is more than a fraction of total sales. There is a hell of a lot more gamers than just those in N America you know. I am a American and I would never be so arrogant as to assume otherwise. Even WoW only has 2 million players in N America
IRVINE, Calif. – January 11, 2007 – Blizzard Entertainment, Inc. announced today that World of Warcraft®, its subscription-based massively multiplayer online role-playing game (MMORPG), is now played by more than 8 million gamers around the world. World of Warcraft has also achieved new regional subscriber milestones, with more than 2 million players in North America, more than 1.5 million players in Europe, and more than 3.5 million players in China.
www.blizzard.com/press/070111.shtml
Oh and it does look like Chinese do count as subscriptions so any numers LoTROP has there will also count toward their subscription numbers after all.
First thing, the North American market isn't a "fraction" of sales if by "fraction" you mean a small amount. North American sales make up a huge percent of potential sales for any product, whether its mmo's or cars. Second point is one I've mentioned in this thread before but you've conveniently decided not to address is the fact that western mmo's DO NOT sell well in Asia, especially for an IP based on a piece of English language literature. You being too optimistic in your expectations of how well LOTRO will do in Asia. I can almost guarantee you it won't do anything in Japan because Japan is a console market, period. Its hard to even find pc games there. Again I'll ask you, name me a western mmo other than WoW that has done well in Asia? As for Europe...doesn't seem its doing as well as you would like to based on how lonely this guy is on the LOTRO euro forums.www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/142844
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
I am reasoning with facts and figures, GameBiz sales charts are not opinions. You have a opinion and whether it is right or wrong you are entitled to it. But don't try and spin 9 weeks of sales in one market into doom and gloom. In particular when those 9 weeks of sales are in the top ten of all PC game sales on the charts.
You keep saying people claimed it to be a WoW killer. Post a link to those claims please. I know I sure as hell have never said any such thing, anyone who has is just delusional
You win, it is absolutely fantastic that with no competition to speak of, with the most legendary IP possible in the genre, and for the largest gaming segment it faces that LotRO sold a monumental, whopping, staggering 172k boxes. Additionally, it is well deserved by this underhyped, quitely marketted, and otherwise unassuming fanbase who would never run around these forums or any others talking trash about being on thier way to millions of subs. I wish you well.
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Achiever 60.00%, Socializer 53.00%, Killer 47.00%, Explorer 40.00%
Intel Core i7 Quad, Intel X58 SLi, 6G Corsair XMS DDR3, Intel X-25 SSD, 3 WD Velociraptor SATA SuperTrak SAS EX8650 Array, OCZ 1250W PS, GTX 295, xFi, 32" 1080p LCD
The fact remains that this game is good for the first 3mths and then it hits a brick wall.It doesnt decline slowly it just collapse's completly.
I only played this for almost 2mths in beta (of which the 1st month was great) however for me boredom actually took hold during the 2nd month's testing. Once you do hit max lvl you really don't have that much to go for, there is a form of pvp you can do, though this is really something they threw in as an afterthought to try and bring in certain players, but it fails. The only thing i can think of is to re-roll a 2nd character and play again, then a 3rd then a 4th by which time you would be sick to death. However having said that, it is still way better than some games out there. Just the price per month was too high for what the game is, at £9p.m (thats around $19-$20).
Lifespan 6mths tops for the average gamer.
The second major update is coming out this month. Also, have you seen the map in the game? Only a fraction of it (Eriador) is implemented so far.
Talk about lifespan
DB
Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.
I am reasoning with facts and figures, GameBiz sales charts are not opinions. You have a opinion and whether it is right or wrong you are entitled to it. But don't try and spin 9 weeks of sales in one market into doom and gloom. In particular when those 9 weeks of sales are in the top ten of all PC game sales on the charts.
You keep saying people claimed it to be a WoW killer. Post a link to those claims please. I know I sure as hell have never said any such thing, anyone who has is just delusional
You win, it is absolutely fantastic that with no competition to speak of, with the most legendary IP possible in the genre, and for the largest gaming segment it faces that LotRO sold a monumental, whopping, staggering 172k boxes. Additionally, it is well deserved by this underhyped, quitely marketted, and otherwise unassuming fanbase who would never run around these forums or any others talking trash about being on thier way to millions of subs. I wish you well.
Never seen anyone stuck on a rubberbone so hard
Post us only 1 example from anyone on these boards saying that 1, LOTRO will be the second WOW, or 2, it will be a smashing, extraordinary hit, or 3, it will sell over a million copies in 6 months....
These things exist only in your head, and it is handy when you need something to back up your pointless arguments. As I wrote before: none of the players could care less how many copies LOTRO sold, as long as developers keep the updates coming.
But worry not it is clear where the thorn hurting your downpart is: haters predictions of LOTRO falling after a couple of months are not only proven to be wrong, but actually these boards (and other ones too) are flooded with trial key requests. No, the game is not even losing popularity, sorry. If it eases the pain, please go on saying things you make up from your mind (like the points 1-3 above).
You're welcome to be listened to, we are pleasantly entertained
Funny though, that you gave a link to Wikipedia describing exactly what you're doing... subconscious or irony?
DB
Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.
The simple point you seem to be unable to grasp was that was only the sales for the first 9 weeks in North America. I would not be surprised if the European numbers were even higher. 9 Weeks is not even a full quarter, it is just 2 months and 1 week. April 24 to June 30. You keep making it sound like that was the only copies it ever sold and will never sell another. Dude the game has been in GameBizs top 10 for 3 months straight.
In April it was the number 1 PC game biz.gamedaily.com/charts/
In May it was the #4 PC game biz.gamedaily.com/charts/
In June it was #9 biz.gamedaily.com/charts/
I mean other than WoW which really has a life of it's own what MMORPG can you name that has done better ? Please post some links and educate me. I mean if you really expect any MMMORPG to equal or beat WoW's numbers then you are the most optimistic( being nice here) person on the internet.
In June it was #9. In July so far it is not in the top 10 at all. In fact, it is getting beat out by games like Nancy Drew, The Sims, etc.
1. World Of Warcraft
2. World Of Warcraft: Burning Crusade
3. The Sims 2 Deluxe
4.The Sims 2 H&M Fashion Stuff
5. The Sims 2 Seasons
6. Nancy Drew: The White Wolf Of Icicle Creek
7. Harry Potter & The Order Of The Phoenix
8. Command & Conquer 3: Tiberium Wars
9. Transformers: The Game
10. Battlefield 2142
As far as what games have done better - well there are quite a few actually. Looking over the past stats at GameDaily I easily found 5 mmo's, besides WOW, that sold over 500K - including EQ2, 2 EQ2 expansions, The Sims Online (horrible though it is..), C&C, etc.
If you want to talk about all time, then there are also several games that beat it badly - even old EQ has sold over 14 million total boxes since it's release in 1999 (including expansions). I personally doubt that LOTRO will ever be a major player, though it will probably survive for years as a niche game.
EQ2
DAOC
SWG
Lineage and Lineage 2
CoH/CoV
Guild Wars
FFXI
Ragnarok
ou got links to prove that Gules or aer you just making more stuff up and trying to twist figures?
So what you are saying is that those games sold more than 172K copies in 9 weeks just in N America?Show me the figures Gules. I bet you cannot show me where any other MMORPG except WoW that sold more than 172K copies in the N American market in the first 9 weeks.Post links to legit prove it, other wise you are just pulling your "facts" out of thin air.
Every one of those built a bigger NA subscriber base. And everyone of them held onto it for some time. EQ2 STILL has a bigger subscriber base here in NA. The last expansion sold twice as many copies as LOTRO has. I remember seeing 200K + concurrent on DAOC (not often, no, but it stayed at 75-100K for years).
Once again the 172K is just for the first 9 Weeks. Lets compare apples to apples and oranges to oranges. 9 weeks , I repeat 9 weeks of N American sales. Not what those games sold worlwide, or what they sold in their first year. Quit trying to manipualte figures.
The plain fact is this: 1 in 5 or 6 people who try LOTRO think it's worth a purchase. Our once 120 member beta kinship ended up with about 18 actual purchases of the game. It's bland, easy, childlike, tears Tolkiens lore to shreds, and will only satisfy someone with very low or no expectations. That's showing in the sales figures.
Where are links to solid figures yo back up those "facts" Or is that is not a fact and just numbers you are pulling out your ass? Why not just make a signature that says that you hate LoTRO and make each of your posts nothing more than a smiley face and a sig? Everyone knows you hate the game by now,also it is becomming plain that all your facts are just your prejudices. Guess what? Tthe people buying and doing the trials don't really give a flying rats ass whether you hate it or love it. The game has been a critical success in every professional review it has recieved., Quite bluntly your opinion means nothing to anyone except you.
I miss DAoC
Dude, I have no idea what you thought when lotro launched. Parallelly, you have NO idea what I did and do think, so don't assume, unless you wish to sound ridiculous. (maybe too late, sorry).Some people predicted that LOTRO will fail.
I (and some of us) said it won't fail. Not less, not more.
Who was wrong - and who cries now?
Think about it.
DB
Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.
From an article dated July 16th
http://www.cdccorporation.net/newsroom/news/000709.shtml
In recent industry reports, LOTRO has been listed as the #1 selling PC title across North America and Europe. LOTRO has outsold all other PC games across North America, Germany, United Kingdom and France according to data from the NPD Group, a leading provider of consumer and retail information in North America, and similar organizations including Chart-Track in the United Kingdom, GfK in France, and Media Control in Germany. Since its launch, LOTRO has also been well received by gaming critics around the globe:
I miss DAoC
DB
Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.
Dont know of any big titles coming out since lotro so grats on doing what a new game usually does i suppose.
well, it doesn't matter if you are a fan or not, or what the critiques say (I remember when e.g. the movie "The Mummy" came out: horrible rating, but the audience loved it) - the users count. if they like it and play it no matter how good or bad .... *shrugs*
172 k boxes in us, say ca 350 k downloads = ca 500k. europe is smaller, give it a total of 100k? that is 600k. not too bad considering that they want to reach 1 million soon.
but, at the same time scary - a title like this with all the developement.... how will AOC or WAR do? STO already said they will do a WoW clone basically, due to the high risk with the licence.....
That is called segmentation of a growing (but not as quickly growing as 2-3 years ago) market.
PVE'rs go to LOTRO, PVP people go to WAR, l33t kidz stay in WOW (i pray for this!)
BTW if US sales as 500k, Europe is nowhere close to 100k - it is much much higher than that. NA market is not bigger then Europe, and the IP is just as strong here (thanks to the movies mostly, but personally I have read Tolkien when I was 15 - and that was before the fall of the "iron curtain"....)
DB
Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.
first are you estimating the number of downloads?
second if anything War and AOC are more anticipated than lotro so i wouldnt worry bout them.
heh getting a bit off topic here arn't we? The topic is LoTRO sold 179 copies in N America in 9 weeks, is that a good figure or not. By the way since you brought it up WAR might be decent but from all the signs AoC will probably not have a very smooth release. Which is a shame because I was looking forward to AoC, but WAR's graphics are not my taste.
I miss DAoC
Or you could say
l33t kidz goes to LOTRO, l33t kids goes to WAR, l33t goes to next hyped coolest game.
And those that you actually want to play with. Those people that you dont know yet or even may not get to know, but that will make you enjoy your game regardless because of their 'spirit'. Those that rather plays with their friends, may it be old friends or new friends met ingame in guilds etc, those player that play for fun as in FUN rather then being on top brawling to raided this and that showing this and that best gear.
Those peopl will endure the s.c. bad community in WoW rather then leave because they have their friends to play with so they jsut occastionaly notice the bad of the community.
If those friends would leave WoW sales of LOTR:O would skyrocket.
I'm so broke. I can't even pay attention.
"You have the right not to be killed"
DB, i aint saying lotro is crap, i was just saying for the average game player the game has a 6mth lifespan (half that for the mmo games player). Lotro would probably be a good game to start with for new online players. The game isnt a flop, but i can hardly call it a hit either, its an average game. Monthly subscription price is a bit high, so that would also deteur any mmo gamesplayer off because of a lack of things to do.
What i look for in an mmo is 1-questing, this game had some nice quests, and even brought in a new thoughtline of this type and skilling up. 2-crafting. however the crafting in lotro was crap. the items were next to useless because you got better in drops than what you actually crafted. and finally 3- pvp. lotro is not in this aspect, but this is known beforehand anyways.
I am happy that Lotro has that many, sadly from what I see alot of people "tried" the game and didn't enjoy there experience, however when I played I had 0 problems with the community, everyone was nice, even though I was a low level, where other people would be rude. I am more of a PvP guy, but if you prefer PvE/solo'ing this is the best of its type.
Though we have heard of stupid haste in war, cleverness has never been seen associated with long delays.
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War
179K is good figures, and my guess is Turbine are pretty happy with the way things have gone so far.
I was one who tried it and lost interest pretty fast like many. Then again, many who tried it are sticking with it, so to each their own. The game is average imo, nothing to great or innovative at all to me. The whole thing has a "been there, done that" feeling to it, but for doing the exact same game(s) I've played in a new skin, its polished and done well.
My guess is LOTRO will never reach 1 million, since some pretty high profile and anticipated games are coming. But LOTRO will do well for awhile, especially if they can fix the game-breaking, clunky, and annoying (for me anyway) linked quest system.