Nonsense. When were the actual game boxes sold, put through the inventory system, and picked up, thus registering a sale of the product? At the end of April. They could in 2Q. period. A pre-sale isn't a sale until the day it is run through a register and paid for as a final, released product. Give it up- with the number of servers, population on each...172K is it. Just accept it
Never though of it like that, You're probably right there. Not trying to deny anything or need to accept anything either. Just having a debate. I was only thinking it would add another 50k at the most anyway, not that it would really increase that number to anything spectacular. You seem to be making this out as a failure of some sort though.
calender quarters and business quarters are not always the same , but judging from the release of this data they might be.. However my wife is an accountant and one place she worked at the first business quarter began on 1 November and ended 31 January, second frm 1 Febuary til April etc etc. be that as it may those figures are only Midway's Box sales and do not include Codemaster sales or any other sales than Midways.
Also most games gain momentum for the first year, in particular ones of the quality of LoTRO. Gules you wish the game was a flop, but truth be told it is a overwhlming success and just looking at all the people wanting trial keys here is proof of that. Might as well give up kid, people love this game and all your troll posts are just a waste of time and energy. You should go find something constructive to do , you will feel better.
Not really sure that was called for. You can debate with people or not like what they say.
Yet to turn around and call the game an overwhelming success is just the same thing the "other" person is doing in reverse. No one here knows how the game is doing... what the expectations were.... numbers needed and in the end numbers retained.
So all of us can have an opinion but none of us can state fact.
I think it can just as easily be said that:
Based on the IP and the respective number of retained AND playing subscribers... One could easily compare this game to SWG. Lucky for you I don't see Turbine being stupid enough to pull an NGE type stunt with this game.
If you predate WoW as to what an outstanding success was... (when EQ1 still pretty much had the peak subscriber number of any NA based MMO)... Then yes this game is a success... just as SWG was...
Anyway.. the only reason I posted was you call the person you quoted a Troll... but pretty much you are doing the same thing. You don't have any more objective facts to base your assumption or accusation on.
Trial keys do not equate to Accounts... ever. Many games have trials... and they can have a lot of people try them or ask for keys (hell people still ask for vanguard keys...). That's not really a supportive piece of data.
The game had a smooth launch... is of good quality. I liked Lore Master the best out of all the classes.. but the game just didn't hold my attention.
Is it a bad game? No... just for me it didn't have the ability to keep me subscribed.
If I had planned on having 200$ laying around.. I might have gotten the lifetime sub.
Lets just say I can understand people who say they didn't like the game... or that it couldn't keep them interested. I still don't call it a bad game...
Gaming is a subjective experience...
and when you get the official subscriber data sheets from turbine let me know... until then claming how great the game is doing.. is just as much trolling as the guy you quoted.
Trial keys do not equate to Accounts... ever. Many games have trials... and they can have a lot of people try them or ask for keys (hell people still ask for vanguard keys...). That's not really a supportive piece of data..
Acttuly many games do include this is certian numbers. I forget which ones but they do.
you really need to edit this post . That is not my post in the box with my name at the top.
Once again the only point I was trying to make in this entire thread was that 172K is simply Midways sales numbers for their business quarter which may or may not coincide with a calender quarter. It does not include any sales in Europe, Japan, or Austrailia. Nor does it include any trials or is it subscriptions. It is simply N American box sales.
Once again the only point I was trying to make in this entire thread was that 172K is simply Midways sales numbers for their business quarter which may or may not coincide with a calender quarter. It does not include any sales in Europe, Japan, or Austrailia. Nor does it include any trials or is it subscriptions. It is simply N American box sales.
I disagree with your acertion - it seems clear your posts where aimed at taking what are very poor sales numbers and spinning it in a way that perpetuates the bragadocious claims of fans that the game is the greatest thing ever, or on its way to that end. Face it man, LotRO is not what it was and is often talked up to be, it is no WoW killer, and from the numbers released I would bet it is walking a thin line on profitability.
Once again the only point I was trying to make in this entire thread was that 172K is simply Midways sales numbers for their business quarter which may or may not coincide with a calender quarter. It does not include any sales in Europe, Japan, or Austrailia. Nor does it include any trials or is it subscriptions. It is simply N American box sales.
I disagree with yoru acertion - it seems clear your posts where aimed at taking what are very poor sales numbers and spinning it in a way that perpetuates the bragadocious claims of fans that the game is the greatest thing ever, or on its way to that end. Face it man, LotRO is not what it was and is often talked up to be, it is no WoW killer, and from the numbers released I would bet it is walking a thin line on profitability.
Turbines goal was 1million Subscribers globally. They are very close to that goal. Turbine is smart enough to know that you need to pick it at Wow, and get maybe 500k subs off it, then another mmo picks at WoW , it is a underlined unspoken team effort of all MMo's to get rid of WoW.
Once again the only point I was trying to make in this entire thread was that 172K is simply Midways sales numbers for their business quarter which may or may not coincide with a calender quarter. It does not include any sales in Europe, Japan, or Austrailia. Nor does it include any trials or is it subscriptions. It is simply N American box sales.
I disagree with yoru acertion - it seems clear your posts where aimed at taking what are very poor sales numbers and spinning it in a way that perpetuates the bragadocious claims of fans that the game is the greatest thing ever, or on its way to that end. Face it man, LotRO is not what it was and is often talked up to be, it is no WoW killer, and from the numbers released I would bet it is walking a thin line on profitability.
First of alll I just made a factual statement. Those numbers are just Midway's business quarter N American sales numbers. They do not include anything else or imply anything else. So how is that spinning anything? Secondly I for one never claimed it to be a WoW killer. Find a post where I ever said that it would be.
So my question for you is why do you hang around and bash the game? 2 posts ago you said you could care less about the game, yet you come over here to put it down. Is it threatening you in some way? What do you get out of bashing it? The game has sold well and the servers are well populated. Turbine has nothing to hide and are willing to let anyone try the game for ten days and that is hardly the act of a company trying to hide anything now is it?
The very best part is that a lot of the same people saying "Wooooot! 172K! Fan freaking tastic!" are the same ones who derided and castigated Vanguard for the "only" 200,000 boxes sold.
Originally posted by CognetoJoe Turbines goal was 1million Subscribers globally. They are very close to that goal. Turbine is smart enough to know that you need to pick it at Wow, and get maybe 500k subs off it, then another mmo picks at WoW , it is a underlined unspoken team effort of all MMo's to get rid of WoW.
Again - based on what? Your fanboy wetdreams? 172k boxes sold in the US is most likely equivelant to barely 75k subscriptions so you invent the other 925,000 to what - magic elf goodwill? LotRO is NOWHERE near 1 million subscriptions, seemingly not even near having sold a fraction of 1 million boxes. At best extrapolation from what has been published you might pressume, optimisticly, that LotRO has sold around 500k or maybe 600k boxes but even that would likely yield only around 200k subs and that is optimistic.
Originally posted by Gules_Aspen
The very best part is that a lot of the same people saying "Wooooot! 172K! Fan freaking tastic!" are the same ones who derided and castigated Vanguard for the "only" 200,000 boxes sold.
Funny thing, perspective.
Exactly - VG sells more in a month than LotRO does all quarter and VG is a undenied flop while LotRO is obviously near 1 million subs and the greatest game ever. Only thing worse than LotRO (boring, redundant, and unporiginal even if well made) is the carebear fanboys who think it is the greatest thing ever. Just love your game, the fact that most people don't (as show by its rather uncompelling sales) shouldn't affect how much you enjoy it. LotRo is not a WoW killer, not even a blip on WoW's screen. In fact, LotRO seems to be barely a DDO killer.
Sorry to pick on you but what kind of fanboy crack are you smoking? They release numbers saying 172,000 units sold (presumptively US only with Europe estimates around the same) and you then extrapolate that to say 350k subs? That is the most idiotic thing I have ever sold. From the published numbers it would seem unlikely they have even sold 350k boxes let alone gotten that many subs. Even you say your guild retension since launch is 50% so take the 172k announced and double it for Europe and cut that by 50% (which would be an incredible retention number BTW) and you still get a miserable number that shows people have mostly rejected the game). Another IP ruined by Turbine - think they will get a strike three? I doubt it.
The numbers were box sales for...Midway. They are the US publisher. Their box sales do not include the EU sales because Codemasters is the publisher over there. Hope that clears things up for you!
-- Whammy - a 64x64 miniRPG - RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right? - FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
The very best part is that a lot of the same people saying "Wooooot! 172K! Fan freaking tastic!" are the same ones who derided and castigated Vanguard for the "only" 200,000 boxes sold.
Funny thing, perspective.
and jackdog is one of them...for a guy who said he is critical of every mmo...he sure does play lotro fanboi well
Fact- Codemasters sold a lot of boxes in Europe since release - anyones guess at the numbers but well over 100K probaly closer to 200K just guessing
How in the world is that a fact? "Sold alot" "Just gussing" Doesn't sound too factual to me. Not that I care one way or another whether LotRO is a success but I found that "fact" funny.
Until you cancel your subscription, you are only helping to continue the cycle of mediocrity.
The very best part is that a lot of the same people saying "Wooooot! 172K! Fan freaking tastic!" are the same ones who derided and castigated Vanguard for the "only" 200,000 boxes sold.
Funny thing, perspective.
So what you are trying to say is that LoTRO sold less than 28K boxes in Europe, Australia, and Japan combined and that No One has sold a box before or after whenever that business quarter started or ended? You just want to ignore the rest of the worlds sales and claim that VG sold more? Fantastic how you can try and spin a simple number when you want to isn't it.
Sucks to be a loser doesn't it SOE ?
As far as the poster doubting LoTRO's European sales, here is a link not a subjective supposition
0th May, 2007 - Today, Turbine, Inc., Midway Games Inc. and Codemasters Online Gaming announced that The Lord of the Rings Online™: Shadows of Angmar™ is the #1 selling PC title across North America and Europe based on the most recent industry reports. The Lord of the Rings Online has outsold all other PC games across North America, Germany, United Kingdom and France according to data from NPD (NA), Chart-Track (UK), GfK (France) and Media Control (Germany).
In addition to soaring sales, The Lord of the Rings Online (LOTRO) has been enthusiastically received by gaming critics around the globe:
?? The New York Times proclaimed LOTRO as "a major achievement of interactive storytelling, the first game truly worthy of the 'Lord of the Rings' franchise and a must-play for just about anyone with an interest in Tolkien or the future of online entertainment."
?? GameSpy awarded the game its prestigious Editor's Choice award with 4.5 out of 5 stars.
?? Computer and Video Games, a leading UK gaming site, rated the game a 9.2 out of 10 and said "LOTRO presents a stunning and evocative world of Tolkien magic to explore."
?? GameDaily, a leading US gaming site, rated the game a 9 out of 10 and calls the game "a hot contender for PC game of the year."
"This outstanding start sets the stage for a bright future," said Jeffrey Anderson, president and CEO of Turbine, Inc. "This is only the beginning as we embark on an incredible journey with our players to expand the world of Middle-earth with the release of regular content updates."
"Following the most successful North American pre-order program in Midway's history, The Lord of the Rings Online is off to a great start," said Steve Allison, chief marketing officer, Midway. "As the positive reports and reviews continue to come in, gamers are settling into the game and experiencing Middle-earth as never before."
"The fabulous response from consumers and the media has been overwhelming," said David Solari, Vice President and General Manager of Codemasters Online Gaming. "It's been a great launch, but it's only the beginning for us. We look forward to rapid growth and welcoming thousands more to Middle-earth!"
Blah, blah, blah - 172k boxes sold in the US is not stellar, not great, not even remarkable. And again, 172k boxes sold doesn't equate to 172k subscriptions - so even if Europe sold the same, around 172k, and the other couple launch areas sold another 172k combined (unlikely) that falls well short of even 700k boxes sold which means subs are not anywhere near 1 million or probably even 200k or so. Face it, at best it is just another MMO and all this meager sales numbers when it is the only thing new out there other than VG which outsold it in a month and is a raving failure.
You can wax on all you want but the numbers do not lie - selling 172,000 copies of a game in the US is not what great, popular, WoW killer games do whether the numbers are for a month or, let alone, and entire quarter after launch. All this for a game released with nearly NO competition and one of the biggest most well know IPs in the genre - the IP that defined the genre in fact.
All in all 172k boxes sold in NA in a 3month period is absolutely fantastic for them. Just look at their stock around the time of their quarterly earnings report with LoTR:O being one of their highlights.
Once again I have to point out that the 172 K boxes were Midways N American sales for the second business quarter which does not include any numbers for any sales outside N American retailers. For some reason people seem to forget that N America is a very small part of the world. What will tell the tale is when it is released in China and Korea. I have a feeling that the subscription in those 2 countries alone will push LoTRO well over the 1 million mark.
I don't think its going to do very well over in Asia. Most western style mmo's don't and since its based on an English language literary work I don't think theres as much of a fanbase in Asia for LOTRO. Apart from WoW(Blizzard was already very well known in Asia and the characters/style of the game is close to what Asians are used to seeing in their games) name me another western mmo that has succeded in Asia? Your wildly overestimating how well LOTRO will do in Asia imo.
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
Smith we are back to the same old shit. There were 172 box sales in N America for April, May and June. They did not stop selling the game on June 30 you know, any other numbers pro or con are just speculation.
Edit just looked an surprisinly enough it is stil in the top 100 PC games over at Amazon.com ( #64 this hour). It and WoW/BC are the only MMORPG's there that I saw. Vanguard dropped off it within 3 weeks if I remember correctly. Just the fact that LoTRO has stayed there in the top 100 for over 4 months says a lot.
Just to satisfy my curiosity why do you insist on trolling over here. Is it becasue I specualted that AoC will probably be a Vanguardware release the way it is looking now? I did not mean to hurt your feeling you know.
172k boxes sold in N. Am. for the quarter after launch sucks, or at least is incredibly unremarkable. That is obvious to anyone not blinded by fanboy goggles. Why don't you and all the other LotRO is the WoW killer multi million sub game people (including Turbine) just eat your crow and go on about your business.
As for AoC - I am not an AoC fan, not really a fan of any game. I am looking forward to seeing AoC although I think the last couple vids have shown combat to be a bit issue filled - but what does that have to do with the published fact that LotRO, as the facts have shown, is not what the LotRO-ites have been blabbering for months that they think it is? I tell you what - whether I like AoC or not if it launches in October and then in the spring of the following year we find out its first 3 months sales in North America total 172k I will not be stupid enough to blabber about on this or any other forum that it is a major hit and I will I proclaim it to have even lived up to its hype. I will say about it, should it sell 172k boxes in its biggest potential market in its first quarter, what I say about LotRO and that is it is not the raving blockbuster, WoW killer, next multi mill sub MMO it was proclaimed to be. Of course AoC won't be launching in a vacuum with no new releases to compete with it for months on either side of its launch like LoTRO did so even if it does as unremarkably average/poor as LotRO has it will have more of an excuse. But bottom line - 172k boxes sold in first quarter is totally and utterly terrible considering the lack of competing releases, the IP involved, the hype and proclamations about being bigger than even WoW and all that. Slow sales is slow sales whether AoC or Bored of the Rings Online or whatever.
Here is an example of why I think it is worth ragging lotRO now - this exchange is with the CEO of Turbine just after release...
" Slashdot: How do you think the launch has gone, for Lord of the Rings Online?
Jeff Anderson: It couldn't really be much better. We've had just terrific response from the community, the sales have been great, we've managed the number one position off and on; the response from the editors, the reviewers, it's racking up the rewards, game of the month, editor's choice awards ... it's really gratifying. You know a bunch of people poured their heart and soul into making this product, and so I'm enthusiastic for them that they can finally see the true value of the hard work that they've put in. We're probably now the second-largest MMORPG operating that was built in the US right now, you know, built in North America/Europe.
Slashdot: If you don't mind my asking, are you folks willing to let out some subscriber numbers at all yet?
Mr. Anderson: Well, besides what I just said probably not. I'd love to, I'd love to, because I think people would be excited about where we are already, barely a month out of the gate. We really don't, though ... it's kind of our policy not to talk about it? People always gave us a hard time; they always said we did it because our number were bad. Now that we have even great numbers we still don't do it. (laughs) So at least maybe we're consistent. When we break ten million, I'll give you a call, how about that?"
Now consioder this - at the time of tha tinterview (and tons of others) it is quite unlikely they had even sold more than 100k boxes yet the guy is talking out his ass as if they are the biggest game ever. That kind of BS marketting crap annoys the hell out of me. It is like the iPhone which you would have though was selling so fast riots where going to break out then we find out it sold a couple hundred K which is nothing of note considering the falsely generated hype. believe what you want, think it is steller if you want - the numbers out show otherwise. Meanwhile, I suppose Slashdot can expect a call from good 'ole Mr. Anderson in about 58 quarters, provided sales don't slow and Mr. Anderson is even still alive then.
Thanks for the backing but let me add I am not a WoW fan, while I never tried it as I was trying other things when it was fresh, I don't think I would like it but I do respect it for becoming what it is. Anyways, my argument is not to compare it or anything to WoW I am just answering the NONSTOP comparisons the LotRO DEVs and fans have made since launch proclaiming LotRO to be the new WoW. And for the record, not beating WoW in subs doesn't mean an MMO sucks or fails - but when you run around proclaiming to be the next great thing and then hardly make much splash I find it time to cal for crow eating. In the end, LotRO (while I hated it for being boring and unoriginal) is a quality game and it will probably make some money - but it isn't all it was hyped to be, isn't near what the fans of it around here have been saying it was, it is just around average or so.
Blah, blah, blah - 172k boxes sold in the US is not stellar, not great, not even remarkable. And again, 172k boxes sold doesn't equate to 172k subscriptions - so even if Europe sold the same, around 172k, and the other couple launch areas sold another 172k combined (unlikely) that falls well short of even 700k boxes sold which means subs are not anywhere near 1 million or probably even 200k or so. Face it, at best it is just another MMO and all this meager sales numbers when it is the only thing new out there other than VG which outsold it in a month and is a raving failure.
You can wax on all you want but the numbers do not lie - selling 172,000 copies of a game in the US is not what great, popular, WoW killer games do whether the numbers are for a month or, let alone, and entire quarter after launch. All this for a game released with nearly NO competition and one of the biggest most well know IPs in the genre - the IP that defined the genre in fact.
They never said they were shooting to be a "WOW killer." Actually, any dev in the industry can tell you that's not a realistic goal to shoot for. You're hooked on the WOW thing, which is really clouding your ability to see realistic numbers. Steefel said they had pretty much equal sales in US and EU. So that puts it at about 350k or so box sales. Vanguard, the 30million dollar blockbuster game that came out only months before, didn't break 200k in box sales.* 200k is lower than 350k, so I'm not seeing how you can figure that Vanguard outsold LOTRO. drop the "1 million" red herring and stick with the real numbers.
350k is a nice number, especially considering that a portion of those subs were lifetime membership, so Turbine got a good chunk up front. They also have the Japan market sales, AND... they are going to China with a business model conducive to that audience which means you probably won't have sub numbers to work with, but if the game takes off there, that's probably going to be a great avenue of revenue.
All in all, you can call it a flop and spend your time in this crusade here on MMORPGs corner of the Intarweb, but in the end, the game has been successful so far both in a stable release and successful launch - That means that dev time and efforts now can go toward creating new content and new features. We've already seen two expansions in the first six months of the game, with an expansion every 2 or 3 months from now on. Servers have plenty of traffic, players are running events weekly on most servers, expansions haven't beenthe nightmare everyone normally expects of an MMOG, and they are expanding to the Chinese market soon.
I'm not seeing "flop" in that.
* = "In May 2006, SOE acquired the title’s rights and the two companies agreed to co-publish Vanguard. The MMO launched in late January of this year and has sold nearly 200,000 retail and digital units worldwide." - SOE Press Release May 15, 2007
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-- Whammy - a 64x64 miniRPG - RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right? - FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
Geez, grown man can be sooo utterly childish (just like a sig with PC specs btw )
I pay 9,90 USD per month and I'm having a LOT of fun everytime I play LOTRO. Updates are coming regularly, for free. The developer is happy and busy working.
Why the HELL would I care that they sold 1 million, 300k, 172k, 50k or less than a thousand copies?
I envy people who's biggest issue is trying to convince other people about totally irrelevant things. Makes you wonder what they do IRL
DB
Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.
Now consioder this - at the time of tha tinterview (and tons of others) it is quite unlikely they had even sold more than 100k boxes...
I don't think that's a realistic assumption, and here's why:
For over a month, LOTRO was a Top5 selling game on EBGames, GameStop, Amazon, and several other sites. For several weeks it was beating out The various Sims packs, Pokemon Diamond, and Pokemon Pearl. It takes a good amount of box sales to pull that off. That's just US sales for those three NA sites and doesn't figure in the EU sites or retail stores.
Was there something else you were basing your statement on?
Also, keep in mind that the second quarter ended on June 30th 2007* so that 172k does not figure in any July sales. I think we both can agree that July sales probably wouldn't be that much more of a leap over the current number, but it is worth mentioning nonetheless.
Now consioder this - at the time of tha tinterview (and tons of others) it is quite unlikely they had even sold more than 100k boxes...
I don't think that's a realistic assumption, and here's why:
I think it is very reasonable to assume that the bulk of the quarters sales happened in the first month, pre-orders would tabulate in that first month. So here you have the head of Turbine making off as if it is the second coming and at the time sales where nothing fabulous. I find that ridiculous and worthy of a bit of a call for eating crow now.
They never said they were shooting to be a "WOW killer." Actually, any dev in the industry can tell you that's not a realistic goal to shoot for. You're hooked on the WOW thing, which is really clouding your ability to see realistic numbers. Steefel said they had pretty much equal sales in US and EU. So that puts it at about 350k or so box sales. Vanguard, the 30million dollar blockbuster game that came out only months before, didn't break 200k in box sales.* 200k is lower than 350k, so I'm not seeing how you can figure that Vanguard outsold LOTRO. drop the "1 million" red herring and stick with the real numbers.
First, as in the quote I posted a bit back they did make clear claims of WoW type success, and the people here on these boards and others made all sorts of claims about being the WoW killer. I can recall over half a dozen threads in this board alone proclaiming LotRO was at on close to 1 million subs. Fact of the matter is the game is average, at best, so it is time for all the big mouthed fanboys who proclaimed it the next multi million sub MMO to admit it is anything but.
Second, VG is clearly a flop for a lot of good reasons. But that 200k boxes number for VG was in its first month. Compare that first month to LotROs first quarter and it is valid to say that if VG is a flop how can LotRO be a raving WoW killer success. Also, remember that boxes sold does not equal subs - so of those 350k to 400k boxes sold (a fair assumption given what we know) probably less than half, or even a third, actually turn into a subscription.
Now consioder this - at the time of tha tinterview (and tons of others) it is quite unlikely they had even sold more than 100k boxes...
I don't think that's a realistic assumption, and here's why:
I think it is very reasonable to assume that the bulk of the quarters sales happened in the first month, pre-orders would tabulate in that first month. So here you have the head of Turbine making off as if it is the second coming and at the time sales where nothing fabulous. I find that ridiculous and worthy of a bit of a call for eating crow now.
pre orders were before that on march 30, and the game only hit stores on april 24, that 172k sales is box sales not pre orders. during the pre orders time we had 7 servers for them. on april 24 they opened 4 more servers.
They never said they were shooting to be a "WOW killer." Actually, any dev in the industry can tell you that's not a realistic goal to shoot for. You're hooked on the WOW thing, which is really clouding your ability to see realistic numbers. Steefel said they had pretty much equal sales in US and EU. So that puts it at about 350k or so box sales. Vanguard, the 30million dollar blockbuster game that came out only months before, didn't break 200k in box sales.* 200k is lower than 350k, so I'm not seeing how you can figure that Vanguard outsold LOTRO. drop the "1 million" red herring and stick with the real numbers.
First, as in the quote I posted a bit back they did make clear claims of WoW type success, and the people here on these boards and others made all sorts of claims about being the WoW killer. I can recall over half a dozen threads in this board alone proclaiming LotRO was at on close to 1 million subs. Fact of the matter is the game is average, at best, so it is time for all the big mouthed fanboys who proclaimed it the next multi million sub MMO to admit it is anything but.
Second, VG is clearly a flop for a lot of good reasons. But that 200k boxes number for VG was in its first month. Compare that first month to LotROs first quarter and it is valid to say that if VG is a flop how can LotRO be a raving WoW killer success. Also, remember that boxes sold does not equal subs - so of those 350k to 400k boxes sold (a fair assumption given what we know) probably less than half, or even a third, actually turn into a subscription.
and yes lotro had 600k pre orders, sold 172k on NA, more 100k only on UK on first month and don't know the japan numbers, wow sold about 3 mill tbc xpack thats alot yes, but not the 9 millions they brag about since all asian market got the game for free and don't even pay to play.
Comments
Never though of it like that, You're probably right there. Not trying to deny anything or need to accept anything either. Just having a debate. I was only thinking it would add another 50k at the most anyway, not that it would really increase that number to anything spectacular. You seem to be making this out as a failure of some sort though.
calender quarters and business quarters are not always the same , but judging from the release of this data they might be.. However my wife is an accountant and one place she worked at the first business quarter began on 1 November and ended 31 January, second frm 1 Febuary til April etc etc. be that as it may those figures are only Midway's Box sales and do not include Codemaster sales or any other sales than Midways.Also most games gain momentum for the first year, in particular ones of the quality of LoTRO. Gules you wish the game was a flop, but truth be told it is a overwhlming success and just looking at all the people wanting trial keys here is proof of that. Might as well give up kid, people love this game and all your troll posts are just a waste of time and energy. You should go find something constructive to do , you will feel better.
Not really sure that was called for. You can debate with people or not like what they say.
Yet to turn around and call the game an overwhelming success is just the same thing the "other" person is doing in reverse. No one here knows how the game is doing... what the expectations were.... numbers needed and in the end numbers retained.
So all of us can have an opinion but none of us can state fact.
I think it can just as easily be said that:
Based on the IP and the respective number of retained AND playing subscribers... One could easily compare this game to SWG. Lucky for you I don't see Turbine being stupid enough to pull an NGE type stunt with this game.
If you predate WoW as to what an outstanding success was... (when EQ1 still pretty much had the peak subscriber number of any NA based MMO)... Then yes this game is a success... just as SWG was...
Anyway.. the only reason I posted was you call the person you quoted a Troll... but pretty much you are doing the same thing. You don't have any more objective facts to base your assumption or accusation on.
Trial keys do not equate to Accounts... ever. Many games have trials... and they can have a lot of people try them or ask for keys (hell people still ask for vanguard keys...). That's not really a supportive piece of data.
The game had a smooth launch... is of good quality. I liked Lore Master the best out of all the classes.. but the game just didn't hold my attention.
Is it a bad game? No... just for me it didn't have the ability to keep me subscribed.
If I had planned on having 200$ laying around.. I might have gotten the lifetime sub.
Lets just say I can understand people who say they didn't like the game... or that it couldn't keep them interested. I still don't call it a bad game...
Gaming is a subjective experience...
and when you get the official subscriber data sheets from turbine let me know... until then claming how great the game is doing.. is just as much trolling as the guy you quoted.
Trial keys do not equate to Accounts... ever. Many games have trials... and they can have a lot of people try them or ask for keys (hell people still ask for vanguard keys...). That's not really a supportive piece of data..Acttuly many games do include this is certian numbers. I forget which ones but they do.
you really need to edit this post . That is not my post in the box with my name at the top.
Once again the only point I was trying to make in this entire thread was that 172K is simply Midways sales numbers for their business quarter which may or may not coincide with a calender quarter. It does not include any sales in Europe, Japan, or Austrailia. Nor does it include any trials or is it subscriptions. It is simply N American box sales.
I miss DAoC
I disagree with your acertion - it seems clear your posts where aimed at taking what are very poor sales numbers and spinning it in a way that perpetuates the bragadocious claims of fans that the game is the greatest thing ever, or on its way to that end. Face it man, LotRO is not what it was and is often talked up to be, it is no WoW killer, and from the numbers released I would bet it is walking a thin line on profitability.
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I disagree with yoru acertion - it seems clear your posts where aimed at taking what are very poor sales numbers and spinning it in a way that perpetuates the bragadocious claims of fans that the game is the greatest thing ever, or on its way to that end. Face it man, LotRO is not what it was and is often talked up to be, it is no WoW killer, and from the numbers released I would bet it is walking a thin line on profitability.
Turbines goal was 1million Subscribers globally. They are very close to that goal. Turbine is smart enough to know that you need to pick it at Wow, and get maybe 500k subs off it, then another mmo picks at WoW , it is a underlined unspoken team effort of all MMo's to get rid of WoW.
Sony Online Entertainment Steals Customers Money
I disagree with yoru acertion - it seems clear your posts where aimed at taking what are very poor sales numbers and spinning it in a way that perpetuates the bragadocious claims of fans that the game is the greatest thing ever, or on its way to that end. Face it man, LotRO is not what it was and is often talked up to be, it is no WoW killer, and from the numbers released I would bet it is walking a thin line on profitability.
First of alll I just made a factual statement. Those numbers are just Midway's business quarter N American sales numbers. They do not include anything else or imply anything else. So how is that spinning anything? Secondly I for one never claimed it to be a WoW killer. Find a post where I ever said that it would be.So my question for you is why do you hang around and bash the game? 2 posts ago you said you could care less about the game, yet you come over here to put it down. Is it threatening you in some way? What do you get out of bashing it? The game has sold well and the servers are well populated. Turbine has nothing to hide and are willing to let anyone try the game for ten days and that is hardly the act of a company trying to hide anything now is it?
I miss DAoC
The very best part is that a lot of the same people saying "Wooooot! 172K! Fan freaking tastic!" are the same ones who derided and castigated Vanguard for the "only" 200,000 boxes sold.
Funny thing, perspective.
Bite me, Turbine.
Again - based on what? Your fanboy wetdreams? 172k boxes sold in the US is most likely equivelant to barely 75k subscriptions so you invent the other 925,000 to what - magic elf goodwill? LotRO is NOWHERE near 1 million subscriptions, seemingly not even near having sold a fraction of 1 million boxes. At best extrapolation from what has been published you might pressume, optimisticly, that LotRO has sold around 500k or maybe 600k boxes but even that would likely yield only around 200k subs and that is optimistic.
Exactly - VG sells more in a month than LotRO does all quarter and VG is a undenied flop while LotRO is obviously near 1 million subs and the greatest game ever. Only thing worse than LotRO (boring, redundant, and unporiginal even if well made) is the carebear fanboys who think it is the greatest thing ever. Just love your game, the fact that most people don't (as show by its rather uncompelling sales) shouldn't affect how much you enjoy it. LotRo is not a WoW killer, not even a blip on WoW's screen. In fact, LotRO seems to be barely a DDO killer.
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The numbers were box sales for...Midway. They are the US publisher. Their box sales do not include the EU sales because Codemasters is the publisher over there. Hope that clears things up for you!
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you are all making a pointless argument.
the fact is the number of box sales, none of you know the number of active subscribers. so really going back and forth about it is pointless.
some people like fruit, some like vegetables, some like both.
whatever....all these forums are horrible.
and jackdog is one of them...for a guy who said he is critical of every mmo...he sure does play lotro fanboi well
Until you cancel your subscription, you are only helping to continue the cycle of mediocrity.
So what you are trying to say is that LoTRO sold less than 28K boxes in Europe, Australia, and Japan combined and that No One has sold a box before or after whenever that business quarter started or ended? You just want to ignore the rest of the worlds sales and claim that VG sold more? Fantastic how you can try and spin a simple number when you want to isn't it.Sucks to be a loser doesn't it SOE
?
As far as the poster doubting LoTRO's European sales, here is a link not a subjective supposition
kotaku.com/gaming/hard-hobbit-to-break/lotro-tops-pc-sales-in-usa-and-europe-259346.php
0th May, 2007 - Today, Turbine, Inc., Midway Games Inc. and Codemasters Online Gaming announced that The Lord of the Rings Online™: Shadows of Angmar™ is the #1 selling PC title across North America and Europe based on the most recent industry reports. The Lord of the Rings Online has outsold all other PC games across North America, Germany, United Kingdom and France according to data from NPD (NA), Chart-Track (UK), GfK (France) and Media Control (Germany).
In addition to soaring sales, The Lord of the Rings Online (LOTRO) has been enthusiastically received by gaming critics around the globe:
?? The New York Times proclaimed LOTRO as "a major achievement of interactive storytelling, the first game truly worthy of the 'Lord of the Rings' franchise and a must-play for just about anyone with an interest in Tolkien or the future of online entertainment."
?? GameSpy awarded the game its prestigious Editor's Choice award with 4.5 out of 5 stars.
?? Computer and Video Games, a leading UK gaming site, rated the game a 9.2 out of 10 and said "LOTRO presents a stunning and evocative world of Tolkien magic to explore."
?? GameDaily, a leading US gaming site, rated the game a 9 out of 10 and calls the game "a hot contender for PC game of the year."
"This outstanding start sets the stage for a bright future," said Jeffrey Anderson, president and CEO of Turbine, Inc. "This is only the beginning as we embark on an incredible journey with our players to expand the world of Middle-earth with the release of regular content updates."
"Following the most successful North American pre-order program in Midway's history, The Lord of the Rings Online is off to a great start," said Steve Allison, chief marketing officer, Midway. "As the positive reports and reviews continue to come in, gamers are settling into the game and experiencing Middle-earth as never before."
"The fabulous response from consumers and the media has been overwhelming," said David Solari, Vice President and General Manager of Codemasters Online Gaming. "It's been a great launch, but it's only the beginning for us. We look forward to rapid growth and welcoming thousands more to Middle-earth!"
I miss DAoC
Blah, blah, blah - 172k boxes sold in the US is not stellar, not great, not even remarkable. And again, 172k boxes sold doesn't equate to 172k subscriptions - so even if Europe sold the same, around 172k, and the other couple launch areas sold another 172k combined (unlikely) that falls well short of even 700k boxes sold which means subs are not anywhere near 1 million or probably even 200k or so. Face it, at best it is just another MMO and all this meager sales numbers when it is the only thing new out there other than VG which outsold it in a month and is a raving failure.
You can wax on all you want but the numbers do not lie - selling 172,000 copies of a game in the US is not what great, popular, WoW killer games do whether the numbers are for a month or, let alone, and entire quarter after launch. All this for a game released with nearly NO competition and one of the biggest most well know IPs in the genre - the IP that defined the genre in fact.
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Once again I have to point out that the 172 K boxes were Midways N American sales for the second business quarter which does not include any numbers for any sales outside N American retailers. For some reason people seem to forget that N America is a very small part of the world. What will tell the tale is when it is released in China and Korea. I have a feeling that the subscription in those 2 countries alone will push LoTRO well over the 1 million mark.
I don't think its going to do very well over in Asia. Most western style mmo's don't and since its based on an English language literary work I don't think theres as much of a fanbase in Asia for LOTRO. Apart from WoW(Blizzard was already very well known in Asia and the characters/style of the game is close to what Asians are used to seeing in their games) name me another western mmo that has succeded in Asia? Your wildly overestimating how well LOTRO will do in Asia imo.
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
Smith we are back to the same old shit. There were 172 box sales in N America for April, May and June. They did not stop selling the game on June 30 you know, any other numbers pro or con are just speculation.
Edit just looked an surprisinly enough it is stil in the top 100 PC games over at Amazon.com ( #64 this hour). It and WoW/BC are the only MMORPG's there that I saw. Vanguard dropped off it within 3 weeks if I remember correctly. Just the fact that LoTRO has stayed there in the top 100 for over 4 months says a lot.
Just to satisfy my curiosity why do you insist on trolling over here. Is it becasue I specualted that AoC will probably be a Vanguardware release the way it is looking now? I did not mean to hurt your feeling you know.
I miss DAoC
172k boxes sold in N. Am. for the quarter after launch sucks, or at least is incredibly unremarkable. That is obvious to anyone not blinded by fanboy goggles. Why don't you and all the other LotRO is the WoW killer multi million sub game people (including Turbine) just eat your crow and go on about your business.
As for AoC - I am not an AoC fan, not really a fan of any game. I am looking forward to seeing AoC although I think the last couple vids have shown combat to be a bit issue filled - but what does that have to do with the published fact that LotRO, as the facts have shown, is not what the LotRO-ites have been blabbering for months that they think it is? I tell you what - whether I like AoC or not if it launches in October and then in the spring of the following year we find out its first 3 months sales in North America total 172k I will not be stupid enough to blabber about on this or any other forum that it is a major hit and I will I proclaim it to have even lived up to its hype. I will say about it, should it sell 172k boxes in its biggest potential market in its first quarter, what I say about LotRO and that is it is not the raving blockbuster, WoW killer, next multi mill sub MMO it was proclaimed to be. Of course AoC won't be launching in a vacuum with no new releases to compete with it for months on either side of its launch like LoTRO did so even if it does as unremarkably average/poor as LotRO has it will have more of an excuse. But bottom line - 172k boxes sold in first quarter is totally and utterly terrible considering the lack of competing releases, the IP involved, the hype and proclamations about being bigger than even WoW and all that. Slow sales is slow sales whether AoC or Bored of the Rings Online or whatever.
Here is an example of why I think it is worth ragging lotRO now - this exchange is with the CEO of Turbine just after release...
" Slashdot: How do you think the launch has gone, for Lord of the Rings Online?
Jeff Anderson: It couldn't really be much better. We've had just terrific response from the community, the sales have been great, we've managed the number one position off and on; the response from the editors, the reviewers, it's racking up the rewards, game of the month, editor's choice awards ... it's really gratifying. You know a bunch of people poured their heart and soul into making this product, and so I'm enthusiastic for them that they can finally see the true value of the hard work that they've put in. We're probably now the second-largest MMORPG operating that was built in the US right now, you know, built in North America/Europe.
Slashdot: If you don't mind my asking, are you folks willing to let out some subscriber numbers at all yet?
Mr. Anderson: Well, besides what I just said probably not. I'd love to, I'd love to, because I think people would be excited about where we are already, barely a month out of the gate. We really don't, though ... it's kind of our policy not to talk about it? People always gave us a hard time; they always said we did it because our number were bad. Now that we have even great numbers we still don't do it. (laughs) So at least maybe we're consistent. When we break ten million, I'll give you a call, how about that?"
Now consioder this - at the time of tha tinterview (and tons of others) it is quite unlikely they had even sold more than 100k boxes yet the guy is talking out his ass as if they are the biggest game ever. That kind of BS marketting crap annoys the hell out of me. It is like the iPhone which you would have though was selling so fast riots where going to break out then we find out it sold a couple hundred K which is nothing of note considering the falsely generated hype. believe what you want, think it is steller if you want - the numbers out show otherwise. Meanwhile, I suppose Slashdot can expect a call from good 'ole Mr. Anderson in about 58 quarters, provided sales don't slow and Mr. Anderson is even still alive then.
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Thanks for the backing but let me add I am not a WoW fan, while I never tried it as I was trying other things when it was fresh, I don't think I would like it but I do respect it for becoming what it is. Anyways, my argument is not to compare it or anything to WoW I am just answering the NONSTOP comparisons the LotRO DEVs and fans have made since launch proclaiming LotRO to be the new WoW. And for the record, not beating WoW in subs doesn't mean an MMO sucks or fails - but when you run around proclaiming to be the next great thing and then hardly make much splash I find it time to cal for crow eating. In the end, LotRO (while I hated it for being boring and unoriginal) is a quality game and it will probably make some money - but it isn't all it was hyped to be, isn't near what the fans of it around here have been saying it was, it is just around average or so.
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They never said they were shooting to be a "WOW killer." Actually, any dev in the industry can tell you that's not a realistic goal to shoot for. You're hooked on the WOW thing, which is really clouding your ability to see realistic numbers. Steefel said they had pretty much equal sales in US and EU. So that puts it at about 350k or so box sales. Vanguard, the 30million dollar blockbuster game that came out only months before, didn't break 200k in box sales.* 200k is lower than 350k, so I'm not seeing how you can figure that Vanguard outsold LOTRO. drop the "1 million" red herring and stick with the real numbers.
350k is a nice number, especially considering that a portion of those subs were lifetime membership, so Turbine got a good chunk up front. They also have the Japan market sales, AND... they are going to China with a business model conducive to that audience which means you probably won't have sub numbers to work with, but if the game takes off there, that's probably going to be a great avenue of revenue.
All in all, you can call it a flop and spend your time in this crusade here on MMORPGs corner of the Intarweb, but in the end, the game has been successful so far both in a stable release and successful launch - That means that dev time and efforts now can go toward creating new content and new features. We've already seen two expansions in the first six months of the game, with an expansion every 2 or 3 months from now on. Servers have plenty of traffic, players are running events weekly on most servers, expansions haven't beenthe nightmare everyone normally expects of an MMOG, and they are expanding to the Chinese market soon.
I'm not seeing "flop" in that.
* = "In May 2006, SOE acquired the title’s rights and the two companies agreed to co-publish Vanguard. The MMO launched in late January of this year and has sold nearly 200,000 retail and digital units worldwide." - SOE Press Release May 15, 2007
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Ok, so I read through all of this shit and all I have is: There were 172k sales in NA.
This is a sequence of characters intended to produce some profound mental effect, but it has failed.
during the period from April 01 to June 30
I miss DAoC
Geez, grown man can be sooo utterly childish (just like a sig with PC specs btw
)
I pay 9,90 USD per month and I'm having a LOT of fun everytime I play LOTRO. Updates are coming regularly, for free. The developer is happy and busy working.
Why the HELL would I care that they sold 1 million, 300k, 172k, 50k or less than a thousand copies?
I envy people who's biggest issue is trying to convince other people about totally irrelevant things. Makes you wonder what they do IRL
DB
Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.
I don't think that's a realistic assumption, and here's why:
For over a month, LOTRO was a Top5 selling game on EBGames, GameStop, Amazon, and several other sites. For several weeks it was beating out The various Sims packs, Pokemon Diamond, and Pokemon Pearl. It takes a good amount of box sales to pull that off. That's just US sales for those three NA sites and doesn't figure in the EU sites or retail stores.
Was there something else you were basing your statement on?
Also, keep in mind that the second quarter ended on June 30th 2007* so that 172k does not figure in any July sales. I think we both can agree that July sales probably wouldn't be that much more of a leap over the current number, but it is worth mentioning nonetheless.
* = http://www.midway.com/assets/press/documents/MWY_Q2_2007.pdf
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I don't think that's a realistic assumption, and here's why:
I think it is very reasonable to assume that the bulk of the quarters sales happened in the first month, pre-orders would tabulate in that first month. So here you have the head of Turbine making off as if it is the second coming and at the time sales where nothing fabulous. I find that ridiculous and worthy of a bit of a call for eating crow now.
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First, as in the quote I posted a bit back they did make clear claims of WoW type success, and the people here on these boards and others made all sorts of claims about being the WoW killer. I can recall over half a dozen threads in this board alone proclaiming LotRO was at on close to 1 million subs. Fact of the matter is the game is average, at best, so it is time for all the big mouthed fanboys who proclaimed it the next multi million sub MMO to admit it is anything but.
Second, VG is clearly a flop for a lot of good reasons. But that 200k boxes number for VG was in its first month. Compare that first month to LotROs first quarter and it is valid to say that if VG is a flop how can LotRO be a raving WoW killer success. Also, remember that boxes sold does not equal subs - so of those 350k to 400k boxes sold (a fair assumption given what we know) probably less than half, or even a third, actually turn into a subscription.
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I don't think that's a realistic assumption, and here's why:
I think it is very reasonable to assume that the bulk of the quarters sales happened in the first month, pre-orders would tabulate in that first month. So here you have the head of Turbine making off as if it is the second coming and at the time sales where nothing fabulous. I find that ridiculous and worthy of a bit of a call for eating crow now.
pre orders were before that on march 30, and the game only hit stores on april 24, that 172k sales is box sales not pre orders. during the pre orders time we had 7 servers for them. on april 24 they opened 4 more servers.
First, as in the quote I posted a bit back they did make clear claims of WoW type success, and the people here on these boards and others made all sorts of claims about being the WoW killer. I can recall over half a dozen threads in this board alone proclaiming LotRO was at on close to 1 million subs. Fact of the matter is the game is average, at best, so it is time for all the big mouthed fanboys who proclaimed it the next multi million sub MMO to admit it is anything but.
Second, VG is clearly a flop for a lot of good reasons. But that 200k boxes number for VG was in its first month. Compare that first month to LotROs first quarter and it is valid to say that if VG is a flop how can LotRO be a raving WoW killer success. Also, remember that boxes sold does not equal subs - so of those 350k to 400k boxes sold (a fair assumption given what we know) probably less than half, or even a third, actually turn into a subscription.
and yes lotro had 600k pre orders, sold 172k on NA, more 100k only on UK on first month and don't know the japan numbers, wow sold about 3 mill tbc xpack thats alot yes, but not the 9 millions they brag about since all asian market got the game for free and don't even pay to play.