Pre-orders are not registered as final sales until the game launches and the balance is paid. It is simply a deposit placed to hold a copy of the game. And in the case of LotRO allot of people such as myself canceled their pre-order before launch. I tried the game for a couple weeks during the open beta (which I got in from pre-order) but when I got bored after a week adn a half I just canceled/returned the pre-order.
You can argue it ten ways 'till Sunday but anyone reasonable knows that megahits, solid successes, don't sell under 200k boxes in the quarter post release. It is a weak number indicitive of a weak to average popularity game. No wow killer, no 'we will call you when we sell 6 million, not much of note at all really.
I don't think that's a realistic assumption, and here's why: For over a month, LOTRO was a Top5 selling game on EBGames, GameStop, Amazon, and several other sites. For several weeks it was beating out The various Sims packs, Pokemon Diamond, and Pokemon Pearl. It takes a good amount of box sales to pull that off. That's just US sales for those three NA sites and doesn't figure in the EU sites or retail stores. Was there something else you were basing your statement on? Also, keep in mind that the second quarter ended on June 30th 2007* so that 172k does not figure in any July sales. I think we both can agree that July sales probably wouldn't be that much more of a leap over the current number, but it is worth mentioning nonetheless.
Not quite. LOTRO was a top selling PC game only. Just FYI, Pokemon Diamond and Pearl sold 1.5 million copies in Japan during its opening week in Sept 06, and IIRC, nearly 1 million here in the US on its release week in April 07.
So, in other words... you are mistaken. Badly mistaken.
www.gamespot.com/news/6176030.html Midway's shortcoming comes on the heels of several high-profile second-quarter launches. With solid reviews, The Lord of the Rings Online: Shadows of Angmar sold over 172,000 copies during the quarter, including the special edition of the game.
Pretty sure Midway only the USA publisher so guess we can double sales to a total 350,000. Respectable but no where near the numbers some people have been hyping.
I dont know if someone mentioned this thoughout the 8 pages of this thread but didnt Vanguard sale 200K boxes and LOTORO being a hit only sold 172k are they trying to say? or is this over the summer or what?
Pre-orders are not registered as final sales until the game launches and the balance is paid. It is simply a deposit placed to hold a copy of the game. And in the case of LotRO allot of people such as myself canceled their pre-order before launch. I tried the game for a couple weeks during the open beta (which I got in from pre-order) but when I got bored after a week adn a half I just canceled/returned the pre-order.
You can argue it ten ways 'till Sunday but anyone reasonable knows that megahits, solid successes, don't sell under 200k boxes in the quarter post release. It is a weak number indicitive of a weak to average popularity game. No wow killer, no 'we will call you when we sell 6 million, not much of note at all really.
sell what? 6 millions haha they gave away 6 millions for free you mean.
In appreciation of the ongoing support and enthusiasm of the Chinese World of Warcraft audience, The9 and Blizzard Entertainment, Inc. are pleased to announce that World of Warcraft players in China will not need to purchase a new CD key to play Blizzard Entertainment 's upcoming expansion, World of Warcraft: The Burning Crusade . Per this plan, everyone in China who has ever purchased a CD key for World of Warcraft will be able to install the expansion content as well without paying for an extra CD key.
World of Warcraft: The Burning Crusade will add a tremendous amount of new content to Blizzard Entertainment's award-winning massively multiplayer online role-playing game. Exciting new features that World of Warcraft players will be able to enjoy after installing the expansion include the entire new continent of Outland , two new playable races -- the Blood Elves and the Draenei -- flying mounts, the new jewelcrafting profession, advancement to the new level cap of 70 -- complete with powerful new talents and abilities -- new battlegrounds, dungeons, quests, and rewards, a revamped PvP system, and much more.
Further details on the availability of World of Warcraft: The Burning Crusade in China will be announced in the near future. Please stay tuned to http://www.wowchina.com for more information.
In china they don't even pay month fee to play. thats how blizzard gets their 9 millions, any game that do the same on asia will get that much subscriptions.
I dont know if someone mentioned this thoughout the 8 pages of this thread but didnt Vanguard sale 200K boxes and LOTORO being a hit only sold 172k are they trying to say? or is this over the summer or what?
They are convienently leaving out that the 200 K was Vanguard's world wide sales total and the 172 K Lotro number was North American sales for the period between April 24 and June 30. About 2 months worth of sales just in N America. The 172 K does not include Europe, Japan, Austrailia or any sales in N America after June 30.
Quingu, sorry for asking, but what drives you to make claims without doing research first? Do you honnestly feel a need to type things and just hope nobody goes and check?
First things first.
The Burning Crusade has not been release in china yet (or it has been released recently). Any sale figures that you heard about The Burning Crusade does not include China in any way or form.
Saying any game that does the same in china will reach the same numbers is completely incorrect. There is no MMORPG that has ever done as good in China as World of Warcraft (or anywhere else on the world for that matter). You will hear claims from some games like "!2 million users" or "24 million players" from games like Silkroad and Scions of fate, but those are accounts created
World of Warcraft subscribers include individuals who have paid a subscription fee or have an active prepaid card to play World of Warcraft, as well as those who have purchased the game and are within their free month of access. Internet Game Room players who have accessed the game over the last thirty days are also counted as subscribers. The above definition excludes all players under free promotional subscriptions, expired or cancelled subscriptions, and expired prepaid cards. Subscribers in licensees’ territories are defined along the same rules."
So anybody that has not played the game at an internet cafe in the last thirty day is NOT included in the subscribtion numbers. Chinese don't pay a monthly fee, instead, they pay per hour.
So those numbers for WoW are without any Chinese players figured in then. Heh , the only game that will kill WoW is WoW II LOL. Oh wel las someone else pointed out the only thing that matters to the players is that the servers are well populated. And Lord knows Bree was certainly crowded last night when I ran through.
I dont know if someone mentioned this thoughout the 8 pages of this thread but didnt Vanguard sale 200K boxes and LOTORO being a hit only sold 172k are they trying to say? or is this over the summer or what?
They are convienently leaving out that the 200 K was Vanguard's world wide sales total and the 172 K Lotro number was North American sales for the period between April 24 and June 30. About 2 months worth of sales just in N America. The 172 K does not include Europe, Japan, Austrailia or any sales in N America after June 30.
What you're conveniently leaving out is that no Western style mmo apart from WoW has been anything close to a success in Asia. Name me one other than WoW that has? I think your being way too optimistic with your world wide predictions.
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
Quingu, sorry for asking, but what drives you to make claims without doing research first? Do you honnestly feel a need to type things and just hope nobody goes and check?
First things first. The Burning Crusade has not been release in china yet (or it has been released recently). Any sale figures that you heard about The Burning Crusade does not include China in any way or form. Saying any game that does the same in china will reach the same numbers is completely incorrect. There is no MMORPG that has ever done as good in China as World of Warcraft (or anywhere else on the world for that matter). You will hear claims from some games like "!2 million users" or "24 million players" from games like Silkroad and Scions of fate, butthose are accounts created
Lineage II Continues Global Success
NCsoft today announced Lineage® II, with more than 14 million customers worldwide, has reached 100,000 active players in North America and Europe. The title started as a cult favorite of many massively multiplayer online (MMO) gamers in North America and Europe and continues its success as the premiere player-versus-player (PvP) online role playing game for the elite PvP player.
Lineage II was launched in North America in 2004 as a modest success. The game has since built itself into one of the top MMOs in the western markets, with a 25 percent growth rate in 2006. NCsoft credits the growth of the game to regular updates and free expansions to the product, and delivering features requested by players. Additionally, NCsoft has implemented aggressive policies to eliminate activities like "botting" and "farming" which give some players unfair advantages over legitimate players.
"This is a great franchise that has dominated Asia and now we are seeing very positive growth in North America and Europe," said Robert Garriott, CEO for NCsoft North America. "This game took a little time to find its audience because it is such a rich, tough and complex world. It is not a game for the faint of heart, but we worked to adjust the game to fit our customers and we’re seeing more players view it as the pinnacle of MMO gaming. More and more players are joining in and staying with Lineage II, making it one of the top MMOs in North America and Europe, as well as in the world."
Lineage II - The Epic Collection is available at North American retailers and at the PlayNC® online store for an estimated street price of US$29.99.
World of Warcraft subscribers include individuals who have paid a subscription fee or have an active prepaid card to play World of Warcraft, as well as those who have purchased the game and are within their free month of access. Internet Game Room players who have accessed the game over the last thirty days are also counted as subscribers. The above definition excludes all players under free promotional subscriptions, expired or cancelled subscriptions, and expired prepaid cards. Subscribers in licensees’ territories are defined along the same rules." So anybody that has not played the game at an internet cafe in the last thirty day is NOT included in the subscribtion numbers. Chinese don't pay a monthly fee, instead, they pay per hour.
By region, stable sales of Lineage® and Linage II led to first quarter sales of KRW 50 billion (US$53.8 million) in Korea, KRW 12.9 billion (US$13.9 million) in North America, KRW 7.8 billion (US$8.4 million) in Europe and KRW 8.1 billion (US$8.7 million) in Japan. NCsoft also realized KRW 3.7 billion (US$3.4 million) in royalty income. Taiwan, which has been included in first quarter consolidated earnings for the first time, recorded sales of KRW 2.3 billion (US$2.5 million). Korea sustained a moderate quarter-to-quarter and year-to-year growth in sales of 2%, while both North America and Europe saw sales drop 28% quarter-to-quarter. However North American and Europe saw sales increases year-to-year of 14% and 102% respectively. By game title, sales of Lineage recorded KRW 30.4 billion, Lineage II KRW 32.8 billion (US$35.3 million), City of Heroes®/City of Villains® KRW 6 billion (US$6.5 million) and Guild Wars® KRW 11.5 billion (US$12.4 million). The percentage breakdown of sales by game title shows Lineage and Lineage II with 38% and 41%, respectively, followed by Guild Wars with 14% and City of Heroes/City of Villains with 7%.
You can argue it ten ways 'till Sunday but anyone reasonable knows that megahits, solid successes, don't sell under 200k boxes in the quarter post release. It is a weak number indicitive of a weak to average popularity game. No wow killer, no 'we will call you when we sell 6 million, not much of note at all really.
Not true at all. I can name several solid successes that had sales under 200k (though LOTRO had more than 200k regardless). EVE Online and Second Life both had small followings for years.
No one with any authority said it was going to be a WoW killer, and no matter how many times you say so it won't make it true. Sorry. As for the quote, he was making a joke. But then by the joystick up your ass, I can see you're far too uptight to see that. Were there crackpots speculating that LOTRO would be a wow killer? Sure. Just like there are crackpots that say WoW is doomed, or that AoC and WAR will be WoW killers.
In fact, I recall several people here and on the official boards hoping that LOTRO WOULDN'T be a "WoW killer". They didn't want that crowd of people in the game. That is my recollection.
_____________________________ Currently Playing: LOTRO; DDO Played: AC2, AO, Auto Assault, CoX, DAoC, DDO, Earth&Beyond, EQ1, EQ2, EVE, Fallen Earth, Jumpgate, Roma Victor, Second Life, SWG, V:SoH, WoW, World War II Online.
Games I'm watching: Infinity: The Quest for Earth, Force of Arms.
Quingu, sorry for asking, but what drives you to make claims without doing research first? Do you honnestly feel a need to type things and just hope nobody goes and check?
First things first. The Burning Crusade has not been release in china yet (or it has been released recently). Any sale figures that you heard about The Burning Crusade does not include China in any way or form. Saying any game that does the same in china will reach the same numbers is completely incorrect. There is no MMORPG that has ever done as good in China as World of Warcraft (or anywhere else on the world for that matter). You will hear claims from some games like "!2 million users" or "24 million players" from games like Silkroad and Scions of fate, butthose are accounts created
Lineage II Continues Global Success
NCsoft today announced Lineage® II, with more than 14 million customers worldwide, has reached 100,000 active players in North America and Europe. The title started as a cult favorite of many massively multiplayer online (MMO) gamers in North America and Europe and continues its success as the premiere player-versus-player (PvP) online role playing game for the elite PvP player. Lineage II was launched in North America in 2004 as a modest success. The game has since built itself into one of the top MMOs in the western markets, with a 25 percent growth rate in 2006. NCsoft credits the growth of the game to regular updates and free expansions to the product, and delivering features requested by players. Additionally, NCsoft has implemented aggressive policies to eliminate activities like "botting" and "farming" which give some players unfair advantages over legitimate players. "This is a great franchise that has dominated Asia and now we are seeing very positive growth in North America and Europe," said Robert Garriott, CEO for NCsoft North America. "This game took a little time to find its audience because it is such a rich, tough and complex world. It is not a game for the faint of heart, but we worked to adjust the game to fit our customers and we’re seeing more players view it as the pinnacle of MMO gaming. More and more players are joining in and staying with Lineage II, making it one of the top MMOs in North America and Europe, as well as in the world." Lineage II - The Epic Collection is available at North American retailers and at the PlayNC® online store for an estimated street price of US$29.99.
World of Warcraft subscribers include individuals who have paid a subscription fee or have an active prepaid card to play World of Warcraft, as well as those who have purchased the game and are within their free month of access. Internet Game Room players who have accessed the game over the last thirty days are also counted as subscribers. The above definition excludes all players under free promotional subscriptions, expired or cancelled subscriptions, and expired prepaid cards. Subscribers in licensees’ territories are defined along the same rules." So anybody that has not played the game at an internet cafe in the last thirty day is NOT included in the subscribtion numbers. Chinese don't pay a monthly fee, instead, they pay per hour.
By region, stable sales of Lineage® and Linage II led to first quarter sales of KRW 50 billion (US$53.8 million) in Korea, KRW 12.9 billion (US$13.9 million) in North America, KRW 7.8 billion (US$8.4 million) in Europe and KRW 8.1 billion (US$8.7 million) in Japan. NCsoft also realized KRW 3.7 billion (US$3.4 million) in royalty income. Taiwan, which has been included in first quarter consolidated earnings for the first time, recorded sales of KRW 2.3 billion (US$2.5 million). Korea sustained a moderate quarter-to-quarter and year-to-year growth in sales of 2%, while both North America and Europe saw sales drop 28% quarter-to-quarter. However North American and Europe saw sales increases year-to-year of 14% and 102% respectively. By game title, sales of Lineage recorded KRW 30.4 billion, Lineage II KRW 32.8 billion (US$35.3 million), City of Heroes®/City of Villains® KRW 6 billion (US$6.5 million) and Guild Wars® KRW 11.5 billion (US$12.4 million). The percentage breakdown of sales by game title shows Lineage and Lineage II with 38% and 41%, respectively, followed by Guild Wars with 14% and City of Heroes/City of Villains with 7%.
What the hell does Lineage 2 have to do with anything? Did you even READ what you just copied ? First you can't be bothered to do research, and now that you actually do some you post something you didn't even read it?? Stop making a fool out of yourself. Every statement I make is based on facts, yours are not.
You can argue it ten ways 'till Sunday but anyone reasonable knows that megahits, solid successes, don't sell under 200k boxes in the quarter post release. It is a weak number indicitive of a weak to average popularity game. No wow killer, no 'we will call you when we sell 6 million, not much of note at all really.
Not true at all. I can name several solid successes that had sales under 200k (though LOTRO had more than 200k regardless). EVE Online and Second Life both had small followings for years.
No one with any authority said it was going to be a WoW killer, and no matter how many times you say so it won't make it true. Sorry. As for the quote, he was making a joke. But then by the joystick up your ass, I can see you're far too uptight to see that. Were there crackpots speculating that LOTRO would be a wow killer? Sure. Just like there are crackpots that say WoW is doomed, or that AoC and WAR will be WoW killers.
In fact, I recall several people here and on the official boards hoping that LOTRO WOULDN'T be a "WoW killer". They didn't want that crowd of people in the game. That is my recollection.
I don't see the sales as weak... average.. or even "good" for WoW came out. Don't try to take that as me supporting WoW... I just think companies need to step back and say .. if this freakish success didn't exist how do we rate.
As for the comment about EVE and Second Life... I'm not sure I personally would use those as examples of weak selling.. low population long time games.. that somehow became "smash successes". That was a response to someone saying Megahits or solid successes don't sell low at launch...
When were EVE or Second Life considered Megahits or Solid Successes? They are niche games that do VERY well in their niche.
Personally I don't know because I don't pay attention to EVE or Second Life (have no opinion on them). I just don't see them mentioned by the industry as examples of "megahit" or "solid success".
I also saw someone post that no western MMO did well in Asia before WoW... I hope that poster realizes that Ultima Online still runs server in Asia... which is one of its most successful market segments. A game that launch in 1997 and still hasn't consildated servers and has in fact.. in the last few years opened new ones.
I haven't played that game since 2002... and don't think I could ever again. Yet EA definitely has a history of not keeping money losing games around... Last I heard it was pretty much the asian market that gave UO most of its profit (tho like I say it was just a statement I saw).
There are a couple of things that need to be clarified and someone with a business backround should be able to figure it out from reading Midway's Financial report.
#1. When do Midway's Quarters begin and end and...
#2. Did Midway push the sales numbers of LoTRO pre Orders into last quarters financials.
LoTRO has been out close to 4 months now, did WoW have 1 mill sales in 4 months? If not, LoTRO is keeping up a decent pace of where WoW was at the same point in time. It will never be able to hit WoW numbers because WoW had a built in PC audience for their game, where LoTRO has a fanbase of Tolkien. I think it is a safe guess that at this point in time as of Aug 6th, that LoTRO has very close to 500k in box sales including all the pre orders, Worldwide Sales and sales that are not falling into Midway's report.
I also think LoTRO can benefit greatly from AoC and WAR. LoTRO is what it is and its a solid game. Both AoC and WAR have alot of hype to live up to and if either game bombs or both, LoTRO will be a major benefactor getting a good portion of those gamers that were disappointed in either game. I think Vanguard really showed how quickly gamers can turn on a game and if WAR or AoC don't deliver, expect the same thing. By the time AoC and WAR launch, LoTRO should have quite a bit of additional content to the game which should compete very well against anything coming against it.
You can argue it ten ways 'till Sunday but anyone reasonable knows that megahits, solid successes, don't sell under 200k boxes in the quarter post release. It is a weak number indicitive of a weak to average popularity game. No wow killer, no 'we will call you when we sell 6 million, not much of note at all really.
Not true at all. I can name several solid successes that had sales under 200k (though LOTRO had more than 200k regardless). EVE Online and Second Life both had small followings for years.
No one with any authority said it was going to be a WoW killer, and no matter how many times you say so it won't make it true. Sorry. As for the quote, he was making a joke. But then by the joystick up your ass, I can see you're far too uptight to see that. Were there crackpots speculating that LOTRO would be a wow killer? Sure. Just like there are crackpots that say WoW is doomed, or that AoC and WAR will be WoW killers.
In fact, I recall several people here and on the official boards hoping that LOTRO WOULDN'T be a "WoW killer". They didn't want that crowd of people in the game. That is my recollection.
So you are saying LotRO is on par with two games not even popular enough to be in stores? Great argument, rofl.
As for nobody claiming it was to be a WoW killer that is absolutely false. Several remarks from Turbine themselves intimated as much, even the one i posted has the 6 mil joke but he seriously proclaims it the second most succesful MMO or whatever. And more than that - enough people around these boards went off saying it was on its way to millions of subs and such that it is warranted to point out it was anything but.
There are a couple of things that need to be clarified and someone with a business backround should be able to figure it out from reading Midway's Financial report. #1. When do Midway's Quarters begin and end and...
I can answer that one . Midways sales quarters follow the calender year. So those sales would be N American box sales between April 24th release and June 30 or about 67 days worth of sales for N America only. No numbers were released for Codemasters European sales, although the game was a chart topper there for several weeks. Atari's numbers for Austrailia and Sakuru's numbers for Japan are not in that figure either. So really the 172 K is simply the tip of the iceburg although some here want to spin it into something it is not.
The origianl gist of the article was that LoTRO was the best selling game Midway had for the quarter. I quote from the article
Meanwhile, the Wii edition of Mortal Kombat: Armageddon only moved about 38,500 units, and the critically drubbed Hour of Victory sold just 16,456 units at retail domestically.
the only thing the article said about LoTRO was
With solid reviews, The Lord of the Rings Online: Shadows of Angmar sold over 172,000 copies during the quarter, including the special edition of the game
Apparantly both Midway and Turbine are pleased with LoTRO's sales
here is what MMORPG.com said in last weeks interview
While Jeff, not surprisingly, wouldn't talk about exact figures, the success of the game is difficult to deny, just look at the shelf of your local game store. I know the EB down the road to me has an entire shelf dedicated to the game.
While he wouldn't talk about specific numbers, Jeff did say this: "We are tracking to the plan we had for bringing this game out into the market. We know we launched successfully... and now we're looking at how we can reach out to a larger audience."
"We're growing in every possible direction," said Jeffrey, speaking about the game's success. He went on to tell me that not only did they have a simultaneous launch in North America and Europe, but that the game has been as successful with the Europeans as it was here in NA. "This IP has a native resonance with them in the same way it does for North Americans."
Beyond those two markets, Germany, I am told is a big market for the game and with the game already launched in Japan and a Chinese launch coming up (as well as other parts of Asia), the future looks bright for this game in terms of overall subscribers.
There are a couple of things that need to be clarified and someone with a business backround should be able to figure it out from reading Midway's Financial report. #1. When do Midway's Quarters begin and end and...
No numbers were released for Codemasters European sales, although the game was a chart topper there for several weeks. Atari's numbers for Austrailia and Sakuru's numbers for Japan are not in that figure either. So really the 172 K is simply the tip of the iceburg although some here want to spin it into something it is not.
Your want to talk about spin? Your doing the same thing by assuming LOTRO will sell just as well or better overseas.
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
Blah, blah, blah - 172k boxes sold in the US is not stellar, not great, not even remarkable. And again, 172k boxes sold doesn't equate to 172k subscriptions - so even if Europe sold the same, around 172k, and the other couple launch areas sold another 172k combined (unlikely) that falls well short of even 700k boxes sold which means subs are not anywhere near 1 million or probably even 200k or so. Face it, at best it is just another MMO and all this meager sales numbers when it is the only thing new out there other than VG which outsold it in a month and is a raving failure.
You can wax on all you want but the numbers do not lie - selling 172,000 copies of a game in the US is not what great, popular, WoW killer games do whether the numbers are for a month or, let alone, and entire quarter after launch. All this for a game released with nearly NO competition and one of the biggest most well know IPs in the genre - the IP that defined the genre in fact.
Wow its amazing the amount of hate you have for LoTRO, or Turbine (maybe its both. I mean months ago when it came out you were posting your hate threads and here you still are claiming you don't care yet posting what now must be hundreds of hate posts. really i think we get it. You don't like LoTRO (or turbine or both again) and your willing to spin and make up posts numbers like saying jackdog said 600K etc. Get over it already. Its sad in the very same post you say LoTRO players are Fanboi carebares, but then say oh well its ok if they like it. If you can't stand the fact some people like the game and play it please move on. I've never tried to tell the VG fanbois that they can't possibly be having fun in VG (though I personally didn't like it much past level 20 ) SO please don't tell us what we should or should like or infer were stupid carebares if we do.
Sorry Agentsmith i know how much you and a few other haters would love for LoTRO to fail miserably , so you can somehow be justified and jump up and say "See I told you so!" but its not. Its no wow Killer, but it will be around for sometime. (well thats what I believe anyway I'm sure you have your own thoughts on the matter ) Also any reference from you that you really don't care is so much BS really even you can't believe that if you go back and look over your posting history of the last few months (at least I hope you can't possibly buy that line even from yourself)
SO go get some popcorn and sit back and wait if it fails and Turbine goes under you will have your moment of glee, and you can shout "I told you so!" and all those posts of yours will be vindicated, and everyone will have to bow to your superior intelligence (and snazzy computer rig ) if not, oh well I'm sure you've been wrong before in your life you'll survive (I hope)
Quingu, sorry for asking, but what drives you to make claims without doing research first? Do you honnestly feel a need to type things and just hope nobody goes and check?
First things first. The Burning Crusade has not been release in china yet (or it has been released recently). Any sale figures that you heard about The Burning Crusade does not include China in any way or form. Saying any game that does the same in china will reach the same numbers is completely incorrect. There is no MMORPG that has ever done as good in China as World of Warcraft (or anywhere else on the world for that matter). You will hear claims from some games like "!2 million users" or "24 million players" from games like Silkroad and Scions of fate, butthose are accounts created
Lineage II Continues Global Success
NCsoft today announced Lineage® II, with more than 14 million customers worldwide, has reached 100,000 active players in North America and Europe. The title started as a cult favorite of many massively multiplayer online (MMO) gamers in North America and Europe and continues its success as the premiere player-versus-player (PvP) online role playing game for the elite PvP player. Lineage II was launched in North America in 2004 as a modest success. The game has since built itself into one of the top MMOs in the western markets, with a 25 percent growth rate in 2006. NCsoft credits the growth of the game to regular updates and free expansions to the product, and delivering features requested by players. Additionally, NCsoft has implemented aggressive policies to eliminate activities like "botting" and "farming" which give some players unfair advantages over legitimate players. "This is a great franchise that has dominated Asia and now we are seeing very positive growth in North America and Europe," said Robert Garriott, CEO for NCsoft North America. "This game took a little time to find its audience because it is such a rich, tough and complex world. It is not a game for the faint of heart, but we worked to adjust the game to fit our customers and we’re seeing more players view it as the pinnacle of MMO gaming. More and more players are joining in and staying with Lineage II, making it one of the top MMOs in North America and Europe, as well as in the world." Lineage II - The Epic Collection is available at North American retailers and at the PlayNC® online store for an estimated street price of US$29.99.
World of Warcraft subscribers include individuals who have paid a subscription fee or have an active prepaid card to play World of Warcraft, as well as those who have purchased the game and are within their free month of access. Internet Game Room players who have accessed the game over the last thirty days are also counted as subscribers. The above definition excludes all players under free promotional subscriptions, expired or cancelled subscriptions, and expired prepaid cards. Subscribers in licensees’ territories are defined along the same rules." So anybody that has not played the game at an internet cafe in the last thirty day is NOT included in the subscribtion numbers. Chinese don't pay a monthly fee, instead, they pay per hour.
By region, stable sales of Lineage® and Linage II led to first quarter sales of KRW 50 billion (US$53.8 million) in Korea, KRW 12.9 billion (US$13.9 million) in North America, KRW 7.8 billion (US$8.4 million) in Europe and KRW 8.1 billion (US$8.7 million) in Japan. NCsoft also realized KRW 3.7 billion (US$3.4 million) in royalty income. Taiwan, which has been included in first quarter consolidated earnings for the first time, recorded sales of KRW 2.3 billion (US$2.5 million). Korea sustained a moderate quarter-to-quarter and year-to-year growth in sales of 2%, while both North America and Europe saw sales drop 28% quarter-to-quarter. However North American and Europe saw sales increases year-to-year of 14% and 102% respectively. By game title, sales of Lineage recorded KRW 30.4 billion, Lineage II KRW 32.8 billion (US$35.3 million), City of Heroes®/City of Villains® KRW 6 billion (US$6.5 million) and Guild Wars® KRW 11.5 billion (US$12.4 million). The percentage breakdown of sales by game title shows Lineage and Lineage II with 38% and 41%, respectively, followed by Guild Wars with 14% and City of Heroes/City of Villains with 7%.
What the hell does Lineage 2 have to do with anything? Did you even READ what you just copied ? First you can't be bothered to do research, and now that you actually do some you post something you didn't even read it?? Stop making a fool out of yourself. Every statement I make is based on facts, yours are not.
Might be missing the jist of this post here but thought its important to point out BC is being given out free in China to all players that own WoW, and as such I'm guessing the sells figures of BC in china will be a fairly mote point. (Though no don't Blizzard will use the number of free BC copies given out as sold figures To keep the hype)
There are a couple of things that need to be clarified and someone with a business backround should be able to figure it out from reading Midway's Financial report. #1. When do Midway's Quarters begin and end and...
I can answer that one . Midways sales quarters follow the calender year. So those sales would be N American box sales between April 24th release and June 30 or about 67 days worth of sales for N America only. No numbers were released for Codemasters European sales, although the game was a chart topper there for several weeks. Atari's numbers for Austrailia and Sakuru's numbers for Japan are not in that figure either. So really the 172 K is simply the tip of the iceburg although some here want to spin it into something it is not.
The origianl gist of the article was that LoTRO was the best selling game Midway had for the quarter. I quote from the article
Meanwhile, the Wii edition of Mortal Kombat: Armageddon only moved about 38,500 units, and the critically drubbed Hour of Victory sold just 16,456 units at retail domestically.
the only thing the article said about LoTRO was
With solid reviews, The Lord of the Rings Online: Shadows of Angmar sold over 172,000 copies during the quarter, including the special edition of the game
Apparantly both Midway and Turbine are pleased with LoTRO's sales
here is what MMORPG.com said in last weeks interview
While Jeff, not surprisingly, wouldn't talk about exact figures, the success of the game is difficult to deny, just look at the shelf of your local game store. I know the EB down the road to me has an entire shelf dedicated to the game.
While he wouldn't talk about specific numbers, Jeff did say this: "We are tracking to the plan we had for bringing this game out into the market. We know we launched successfully... and now we're looking at how we can reach out to a larger audience."
"We're growing in every possible direction," said Jeffrey, speaking about the game's success. He went on to tell me that not only did they have a simultaneous launch in North America and Europe, but that the game has been as successful with the Europeans as it was here in NA. "This IP has a native resonance with them in the same way it does for North Americans."
Beyond those two markets, Germany, I am told is a big market for the game and with the game already launched in Japan and a Chinese launch coming up (as well as other parts of Asia), the future looks bright for this game in terms of overall subscribers.
Your want to talk about spin? Your doing the same thing by assuming LOTRO will sell just as well or better overseas.
Where did I assume anything in my post? I don't think anyone ewith even half a brain would assume that 9 weeks of sales from one market area is more than a fraction of total sales. There is a hell of a lot more gamers than just those in N America you know. I am a American and I would never be so arrogant as to assume otherwise. Even WoW only has 2 million players in N America
IRVINE, Calif. – January 11, 2007 – Blizzard Entertainment, Inc. announced today that World of Warcraft®, its subscription-based massively multiplayer online role-playing game (MMORPG), is now played by more than 8 million gamers around the world. World of Warcraft has also achieved new regional subscriber milestones, with more than 2 million players in North America, more than 1.5 million players in Europe, and more than 3.5 million players in China.
It is a game discussion website, that doesn't mean discussion only those games you love but all games. I post on topics I find interesting. Given the wild claims by fans and Turbine alike I find it interesting that we now know LotRO had anything but stellar sales. You can wiggle and spin all you want but anyone with half a brain knows that 172 boxes sold in the game's likely biggest market in the first quarter after launch with a major IP title and next to no new releases to distract from it is TERRIBLE, or at the very least unremarkable.
Sorry LotRO fanboys - but this is one you cannot win no matter how much you care to blabber about obfuscating the issue. 172,00 copies in North America in more than two months post release is not good and whatever the European numbers are it is unlikely that LotRO has anything more than somewhere in the mid to high 100k subscriptions. Possibly viable depending on the cost of the IP and overall development costs, but hardly a raving, runaway success. In fact, the undeniable fact of these numbers is that LotRO probably has allot of work left to do to break even and clear a profit - something most large titles such as it would have hoped to do within the first couple months from box sales. A reasonable estimation would have it, at best, having made around 18 million from box sales in the first quarter (presuming Euro sales where on par with NA sales). Given that a major title such as this is likely to have cost anywhere from $15 to $25 million for development without including the IP royalties and engine development LotRO still has allot to make up. As far as I understand Turbine used their own engine for LotRO (same one that DDO uses, you can even recognize a number of assets common in both) so that helps with costs but it is unlikely that proper accounting wouldn't be amortizing at least a couple million of the engine costs to LotRO's bottom line. IP costs can vary, and can be steep - I would say at least $1 million and upwards of $3 to $4 million. Add all this up and you get a cost to develop that is easily in the $25 to $30 million range. Given the numbers we know it is likely they are still well short of recouping development costs and while a couple hundred K subs is solid and viable it is certainly not a raving success and depending on turbine's financial position may or may not be viable. Trying to make up $10 or $15 million in development costs once live is not easy. For one the debt is costly, for anther there are ongoing costs, and lastly games don't often sell more as time goes by despite someone's claim to the contrary earlier. With several large blockbuster games coming it is also reasonable to assume that LotRO will at best lose new interest and at worst lose subs.
Mind you I am not calling LotRO a failure - only Turbine can make that call, I am just pointing out that despite the braggadocio from fans and Turbine it is not what they have both been saying it is. I imagine Turbine will manage things and make money off LotRO, they seem to be a responsible company in that regard. But that much is irrelevant the marketing hype and bandwagon BS they have been bellowing out for months. Reasoned analysis shows that it is not what its hype, its fans, and its developers have been bragging that it was. I think this is a valid topic of conversation, especially since so many insist on denying obvious facts just because they have some emotional interest in seeing their fav game do well. Sorry if it hurts to have to eat crow now that facts are emerging that disperse the hype and wild claims but that is life - get over it.
Good by whose standards Smith? 179 K in 9 weeks in just N America would mean close to ten million in gross box sales. According to people in the business it was a success. Figure at least that much in Europe and probably another 100K for Japan and Austrailia. I would call about 20 - 25 million gross in 9 weeks a pretty good success.
It is a game discussion website, that doesn't mean discussion only those games you love but all games. I post on topics I find interesting. Given the wild claims by fans and Turbine alike I find it interesting that we now know LotRO had anything but stellar sales. You can wiggle and spin all you want but anyone with half a brain knows that 172 boxes sold in the game's likely biggest market in the first quarter after launch with a major IP title and next to no new releases to distract from it is TERRIBLE, or at the very least unremarkable.
Sorry LotRO fanboys - but this is one you cannot win no matter how much you care to blabber about obfuscating the issue. 172,00 copies in North America in more than two months post release is not good and whatever the European numbers are it is unlikely that LotRO has anything more than somewhere in the mid to high 100k subscriptions. Possibly viable depending on the cost of the IP and overall development costs, but hardly a raving, runaway success. In fact, the undeniable fact of these numbers is that LotRO probably has allot of work left to do to break even and clear a profit - something most large titles such as it would have hoped to do within the first couple months from box sales. A reasonable estimation would have it, at best, having made around 18 million from box sales in the first quarter (presuming Euro sales where on par with NA sales). Given that a major title such as this is likely to have cost anywhere from $15 to $25 million for development without including the IP royalties and engine development LotRO still has allot to make up. As far as I understand Turbine used their own engine for LotRO (same one that DDO uses, you can even recognize a number of assets common in both) so that helps with costs but it is unlikely that proper accounting wouldn't be amortizing at least a couple million of the engine costs to LotRO's bottom line. IP costs can vary, and can be steep - I would say at least $1 million and upwards of $3 to $4 million. Add all this up and you get a cost to develop that is easily in the $25 to $30 million range. Given the numbers we know it is likely they are still well short of recouping development costs and while a couple hundred K subs is solid and viable it is certainly not a raving success and depending on turbine's financial position may or may not be viable. Trying to make up $10 or $15 million in development costs once live is not easy. For one the debt is costly, for anther there are ongoing costs, and lastly games don't often sell more as time goes by despite someone's claim to the contrary earlier. With several large blockbuster games coming it is also reasonable to assume that LotRO will at best lose new interest and at worst lose subs.
Mind you I am not calling LotRO a failure - only Turbine can make that call, I am just pointing out that despite the braggadocio from fans and Turbine it is not what they have both been saying it is. I imagine Turbine will manage things and make money off LotRO, they seem to be a responsible company in that regard. But that much is irrelevant the marketing hype and bandwagon BS they have been bellowing out for months. Reasoned analysis shows that it is not what its hype, its fans, and its developers have been bragging that it was. I think this is a valid topic of conversation, especially since so many insist on denying obvious facts just because they have some emotional interest in seeing their fav game do well. Sorry if it hurts to have to eat crow now that facts are emerging that disperse the hype and wild claims but that is life - get over it.
Really I must not be paying as much attention as you. (Which would seem to me to show you care much more about weither LoTRO fails or does well then i do dispite the fact you hate it and i find it a fun enough way to spend a few hours a week) but the only one I see seriously saying anyone claimed that LoTRO is a wow killer or has millions of subscribers is you.( if there are others evidently few if any of us took them seriously, except you ) We all agree on the numbers more or less except you seem to be implying that the 2nd quater NA sells are the be all and end all.
The game hasn't failed and gone bottum up as I seem to recall you implying it would several months ago so wouldn't that mean you are eating just as much crow as those that said it would be a wow killer? Also Reasoned analysis tends to use facts from both sides of the arguement not just one side. Your posts and arguement as far as I've seen (and I'm sure out of the hundreds (?) of LoTRO hate post you made since its release I have missed many) seem to only use facts and statements (some statement you seem to have pulled out of thin air like saying Jackdog said there were over 600K subscribers(?)) from one side. This of course is the way to win a debate, but doesn't make for "Reasoned analysis" or anything more honest/truthfull then in any political debate.
Look over your posts and consider the facts, you have a emotional attachment to this debate as much as any you claim the rabid fanbois have (Who me? ) You claim the fanbois have a emotional interest in seeing the game do well yet it seems to me you have just as strong a emotional interest in seeing it fail. (This is not just from the posts in this thread, nore do i admit is it froming seeing all your posts from all the threads, but I have seen many posts over several threads for the past several months since LoTRO release most of which i haven't responded to).
Come on I dare you to recheck some of your posts since LoTRO release several months ago and even more recent ones and do a "Reasoned alalysis" and say you don't have some kind of "emotional interest" beyound the pure "I find interesting".
In the end it bothers me not weither you call me a rabid fanboi carebare, and I'm sure it doesn't bother you if I lable you as a hater for your one sided and illogical debate, but its always interesting when the pot calls the kettle black (ie in referance to emotional interest etc.) Note i am not saying I am making a "reasoned analysis". I know enough to admit I am not a neutral party, I don't make false claims claiming to be. Nore is my computer snazzy (its a 2 y/o alienware 3.2 ghz, I am sooo not uber) Thank you and Goodday!
Quingu, sorry for asking, but what drives you to make claims without doing research first? Do you honnestly feel a need to type things and just hope nobody goes and check?
First things first. The Burning Crusade has not been release in china yet (or it has been released recently). Any sale figures that you heard about The Burning Crusade does not include China in any way or form. Saying any game that does the same in china will reach the same numbers is completely incorrect. There is no MMORPG that has ever done as good in China as World of Warcraft (or anywhere else on the world for that matter). You will hear claims from some games like "!2 million users" or "24 million players" from games like Silkroad and Scions of fate, butthose are accounts created
Lineage II Continues Global Success
NCsoft today announced Lineage® II, with more than 14 million customers worldwide, has reached 100,000 active players in North America and Europe. The title started as a cult favorite of many massively multiplayer online (MMO) gamers in North America and Europe and continues its success as the premiere player-versus-player (PvP) online role playing game for the elite PvP player. Lineage II was launched in North America in 2004 as a modest success. The game has since built itself into one of the top MMOs in the western markets, with a 25 percent growth rate in 2006. NCsoft credits the growth of the game to regular updates and free expansions to the product, and delivering features requested by players. Additionally, NCsoft has implemented aggressive policies to eliminate activities like "botting" and "farming" which give some players unfair advantages over legitimate players. "This is a great franchise that has dominated Asia and now we are seeing very positive growth in North America and Europe," said Robert Garriott, CEO for NCsoft North America. "This game took a little time to find its audience because it is such a rich, tough and complex world. It is not a game for the faint of heart, but we worked to adjust the game to fit our customers and we’re seeing more players view it as the pinnacle of MMO gaming. More and more players are joining in and staying with Lineage II, making it one of the top MMOs in North America and Europe, as well as in the world." Lineage II - The Epic Collection is available at North American retailers and at the PlayNC® online store for an estimated street price of US$29.99.
World of Warcraft subscribers include individuals who have paid a subscription fee or have an active prepaid card to play World of Warcraft, as well as those who have purchased the game and are within their free month of access. Internet Game Room players who have accessed the game over the last thirty days are also counted as subscribers. The above definition excludes all players under free promotional subscriptions, expired or cancelled subscriptions, and expired prepaid cards. Subscribers in licensees’ territories are defined along the same rules." So anybody that has not played the game at an internet cafe in the last thirty day is NOT included in the subscribtion numbers. Chinese don't pay a monthly fee, instead, they pay per hour.
By region, stable sales of Lineage® and Linage II led to first quarter sales of KRW 50 billion (US$53.8 million) in Korea, KRW 12.9 billion (US$13.9 million) in North America, KRW 7.8 billion (US$8.4 million) in Europe and KRW 8.1 billion (US$8.7 million) in Japan. NCsoft also realized KRW 3.7 billion (US$3.4 million) in royalty income. Taiwan, which has been included in first quarter consolidated earnings for the first time, recorded sales of KRW 2.3 billion (US$2.5 million). Korea sustained a moderate quarter-to-quarter and year-to-year growth in sales of 2%, while both North America and Europe saw sales drop 28% quarter-to-quarter. However North American and Europe saw sales increases year-to-year of 14% and 102% respectively. By game title, sales of Lineage recorded KRW 30.4 billion, Lineage II KRW 32.8 billion (US$35.3 million), City of Heroes®/City of Villains® KRW 6 billion (US$6.5 million) and Guild Wars® KRW 11.5 billion (US$12.4 million). The percentage breakdown of sales by game title shows Lineage and Lineage II with 38% and 41%, respectively, followed by Guild Wars with 14% and City of Heroes/City of Villains with 7%.
What the hell does Lineage 2 have to do with anything? Did you even READ what you just copied ? First you can't be bothered to do research, and now that you actually do some you post something you didn't even read it?? Stop making a fool out of yourself. Every statement I make is based on facts, yours are not.
Might be missing the jist of this post here but thought its important to point out BC is being given out free in China to all players that own WoW, and as such I'm guessing the sells figures of BC in china will be a fairly mote point. (Though no don't Blizzard will use the number of free BC copies given out as sold figures To keep the hype)
The Burning Crusade was not even released in China when Blizzard made the press release. And besides that, Chinese won't have to pay for TBC. Its not a "sale".
Comments
Pre-orders are not registered as final sales until the game launches and the balance is paid. It is simply a deposit placed to hold a copy of the game. And in the case of LotRO allot of people such as myself canceled their pre-order before launch. I tried the game for a couple weeks during the open beta (which I got in from pre-order) but when I got bored after a week adn a half I just canceled/returned the pre-order.
You can argue it ten ways 'till Sunday but anyone reasonable knows that megahits, solid successes, don't sell under 200k boxes in the quarter post release. It is a weak number indicitive of a weak to average popularity game. No wow killer, no 'we will call you when we sell 6 million, not much of note at all really.
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Achiever 60.00%, Socializer 53.00%, Killer 47.00%, Explorer 40.00%
Intel Core i7 Quad, Intel X58 SLi, 6G Corsair XMS DDR3, Intel X-25 SSD, 3 WD Velociraptor SATA SuperTrak SAS EX8650 Array, OCZ 1250W PS, GTX 295, xFi, 32" 1080p LCD
Not quite. LOTRO was a top selling PC game only. Just FYI, Pokemon Diamond and Pearl sold 1.5 million copies in Japan during its opening week in Sept 06, and IIRC, nearly 1 million here in the US on its release week in April 07.
So, in other words... you are mistaken. Badly mistaken.
Perception is Reality.
during the period from April 01 to June 30
Yah hum.
I can see now where agent gets all of his ammunition from.
I dislike LOTRO as well and even preferred to play Vanguard over LOTRO beta until I canceled my sub, but I hope that it does well.
Inflating sales figures and being an anal retentive douchebag isn't going to help subs, sorry.
This is a sequence of characters intended to produce some profound mental effect, but it has failed.
I dont know if someone mentioned this thoughout the 8 pages of this thread but didnt Vanguard sale 200K boxes and LOTORO being a hit only sold 172k are they trying to say? or is this over the summer or what?
In appreciation of the ongoing support and enthusiasm of the Chinese World of Warcraft audience, The9 and Blizzard Entertainment, Inc. are pleased to announce that World of Warcraft players in China will not need to purchase a new CD key to play Blizzard Entertainment 's upcoming expansion, World of Warcraft: The Burning Crusade . Per this plan, everyone in China who has ever purchased a CD key for World of Warcraft will be able to install the expansion content as well without paying for an extra CD key.
World of Warcraft: The Burning Crusade will add a tremendous amount of new content to Blizzard Entertainment's award-winning massively multiplayer online role-playing game. Exciting new features that World of Warcraft players will be able to enjoy after installing the expansion include the entire new continent of Outland , two new playable races -- the Blood Elves and the Draenei -- flying mounts, the new jewelcrafting profession, advancement to the new level cap of 70 -- complete with powerful new talents and abilities -- new battlegrounds, dungeons, quests, and rewards, a revamped PvP system, and much more.
Further details on the availability of World of Warcraft: The Burning Crusade in China will be announced in the near future. Please stay tuned to http://www.wowchina.com for more information.
In china they don't even pay month fee to play. thats how blizzard gets their 9 millions, any game that do the same on asia will get that much subscriptions.
They are convienently leaving out that the 200 K was Vanguard's world wide sales total and the 172 K Lotro number was North American sales for the period between April 24 and June 30. About 2 months worth of sales just in N America. The 172 K does not include Europe, Japan, Austrailia or any sales in N America after June 30.
I miss DAoC
Quingu, sorry for asking, but what drives you to make claims without doing research first? Do you honnestly feel a need to type things and just hope nobody goes and check?
First things first.
The Burning Crusade has not been release in china yet (or it has been released recently). Any sale figures that you heard about The Burning Crusade does not include China in any way or form.
Saying any game that does the same in china will reach the same numbers is completely incorrect. There is no MMORPG that has ever done as good in China as World of Warcraft (or anywhere else on the world for that matter). You will hear claims from some games like "!2 million users" or "24 million players" from games like Silkroad and Scions of fate, but those are accounts created
http://www.blizzard.com/press/070724.shtml
"World of Warcraft's Subscriber Definition
World of Warcraft subscribers include individuals who have paid a subscription fee or have an active prepaid card to play World of Warcraft, as well as those who have purchased the game and are within their free month of access. Internet Game Room players who have accessed the game over the last thirty days are also counted as subscribers. The above definition excludes all players under free promotional subscriptions, expired or cancelled subscriptions, and expired prepaid cards. Subscribers in licensees’ territories are defined along the same rules."
So anybody that has not played the game at an internet cafe in the last thirty day is NOT included in the subscribtion numbers. Chinese don't pay a monthly fee, instead, they pay per hour.
So those numbers for WoW are without any Chinese players figured in then. Heh , the only game that will kill WoW is WoW II LOL. Oh wel las someone else pointed out the only thing that matters to the players is that the servers are well populated. And Lord knows Bree was certainly crowded last night when I ran through.
I miss DAoC
They are convienently leaving out that the 200 K was Vanguard's world wide sales total and the 172 K Lotro number was North American sales for the period between April 24 and June 30. About 2 months worth of sales just in N America. The 172 K does not include Europe, Japan, Austrailia or any sales in N America after June 30.
What you're conveniently leaving out is that no Western style mmo apart from WoW has been anything close to a success in Asia. Name me one other than WoW that has? I think your being way too optimistic with your world wide predictions.
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
By region, stable sales of Lineage® and Linage II led to first quarter sales of KRW 50 billion (US$53.8 million) in Korea, KRW 12.9 billion (US$13.9 million) in North America, KRW 7.8 billion (US$8.4 million) in Europe and KRW 8.1 billion (US$8.7 million) in Japan. NCsoft also realized KRW 3.7 billion (US$3.4 million) in royalty income. Taiwan, which has been included in first quarter consolidated earnings for the first time, recorded sales of KRW 2.3 billion (US$2.5 million). Korea sustained a moderate quarter-to-quarter and year-to-year growth in sales of 2%, while both North America and Europe saw sales drop 28% quarter-to-quarter. However North American and Europe saw sales increases year-to-year of 14% and 102% respectively. By game title, sales of Lineage recorded KRW 30.4 billion, Lineage II KRW 32.8 billion (US$35.3 million), City of Heroes®/City of Villains® KRW 6 billion (US$6.5 million) and Guild Wars® KRW 11.5 billion (US$12.4 million). The percentage breakdown of sales by game title shows Lineage and Lineage II with 38% and 41%, respectively, followed by Guild Wars with 14% and City of Heroes/City of Villains with 7%.
Not true at all. I can name several solid successes that had sales under 200k (though LOTRO had more than 200k regardless). EVE Online and Second Life both had small followings for years.
No one with any authority said it was going to be a WoW killer, and no matter how many times you say so it won't make it true. Sorry. As for the quote, he was making a joke. But then by the joystick up your ass, I can see you're far too uptight to see that. Were there crackpots speculating that LOTRO would be a wow killer? Sure. Just like there are crackpots that say WoW is doomed, or that AoC and WAR will be WoW killers.
In fact, I recall several people here and on the official boards hoping that LOTRO WOULDN'T be a "WoW killer". They didn't want that crowd of people in the game. That is my recollection.
_____________________________
Currently Playing: LOTRO; DDO
Played: AC2, AO, Auto Assault, CoX, DAoC, DDO, Earth&Beyond, EQ1, EQ2, EVE, Fallen Earth, Jumpgate, Roma Victor, Second Life, SWG, V:SoH, WoW, World War II Online.
Games I'm watching: Infinity: The Quest for Earth, Force of Arms.
Find the Truth: http://www.factcheck.org/
By region, stable sales of Lineage® and Linage II led to first quarter sales of KRW 50 billion (US$53.8 million) in Korea, KRW 12.9 billion (US$13.9 million) in North America, KRW 7.8 billion (US$8.4 million) in Europe and KRW 8.1 billion (US$8.7 million) in Japan. NCsoft also realized KRW 3.7 billion (US$3.4 million) in royalty income. Taiwan, which has been included in first quarter consolidated earnings for the first time, recorded sales of KRW 2.3 billion (US$2.5 million). Korea sustained a moderate quarter-to-quarter and year-to-year growth in sales of 2%, while both North America and Europe saw sales drop 28% quarter-to-quarter. However North American and Europe saw sales increases year-to-year of 14% and 102% respectively. By game title, sales of Lineage recorded KRW 30.4 billion, Lineage II KRW 32.8 billion (US$35.3 million), City of Heroes®/City of Villains® KRW 6 billion (US$6.5 million) and Guild Wars® KRW 11.5 billion (US$12.4 million). The percentage breakdown of sales by game title shows Lineage and Lineage II with 38% and 41%, respectively, followed by Guild Wars with 14% and City of Heroes/City of Villains with 7%.
What the hell does Lineage 2 have to do with anything? Did you even READ what you just copied ? First you can't be bothered to do research, and now that you actually do some you post something you didn't even read it?? Stop making a fool out of yourself. Every statement I make is based on facts, yours are not.
Not true at all. I can name several solid successes that had sales under 200k (though LOTRO had more than 200k regardless). EVE Online and Second Life both had small followings for years.
No one with any authority said it was going to be a WoW killer, and no matter how many times you say so it won't make it true. Sorry. As for the quote, he was making a joke. But then by the joystick up your ass, I can see you're far too uptight to see that. Were there crackpots speculating that LOTRO would be a wow killer? Sure. Just like there are crackpots that say WoW is doomed, or that AoC and WAR will be WoW killers.
In fact, I recall several people here and on the official boards hoping that LOTRO WOULDN'T be a "WoW killer". They didn't want that crowd of people in the game. That is my recollection.
I don't see the sales as weak... average.. or even "good" for WoW came out. Don't try to take that as me supporting WoW... I just think companies need to step back and say .. if this freakish success didn't exist how do we rate.
As for the comment about EVE and Second Life... I'm not sure I personally would use those as examples of weak selling.. low population long time games.. that somehow became "smash successes". That was a response to someone saying Megahits or solid successes don't sell low at launch...
When were EVE or Second Life considered Megahits or Solid Successes? They are niche games that do VERY well in their niche.
Personally I don't know because I don't pay attention to EVE or Second Life (have no opinion on them). I just don't see them mentioned by the industry as examples of "megahit" or "solid success".
I also saw someone post that no western MMO did well in Asia before WoW... I hope that poster realizes that Ultima Online still runs server in Asia... which is one of its most successful market segments. A game that launch in 1997 and still hasn't consildated servers and has in fact.. in the last few years opened new ones.
I haven't played that game since 2002... and don't think I could ever again. Yet EA definitely has a history of not keeping money losing games around... Last I heard it was pretty much the asian market that gave UO most of its profit (tho like I say it was just a statement I saw).
/endrandomthoughts.
There are a couple of things that need to be clarified and someone with a business backround should be able to figure it out from reading Midway's Financial report.
#1. When do Midway's Quarters begin and end and...
#2. Did Midway push the sales numbers of LoTRO pre Orders into last quarters financials.
LoTRO has been out close to 4 months now, did WoW have 1 mill sales in 4 months? If not, LoTRO is keeping up a decent pace of where WoW was at the same point in time. It will never be able to hit WoW numbers because WoW had a built in PC audience for their game, where LoTRO has a fanbase of Tolkien. I think it is a safe guess that at this point in time as of Aug 6th, that LoTRO has very close to 500k in box sales including all the pre orders, Worldwide Sales and sales that are not falling into Midway's report.
I also think LoTRO can benefit greatly from AoC and WAR. LoTRO is what it is and its a solid game. Both AoC and WAR have alot of hype to live up to and if either game bombs or both, LoTRO will be a major benefactor getting a good portion of those gamers that were disappointed in either game. I think Vanguard really showed how quickly gamers can turn on a game and if WAR or AoC don't deliver, expect the same thing. By the time AoC and WAR launch, LoTRO should have quite a bit of additional content to the game which should compete very well against anything coming against it.
Not true at all. I can name several solid successes that had sales under 200k (though LOTRO had more than 200k regardless). EVE Online and Second Life both had small followings for years.
No one with any authority said it was going to be a WoW killer, and no matter how many times you say so it won't make it true. Sorry. As for the quote, he was making a joke. But then by the joystick up your ass, I can see you're far too uptight to see that. Were there crackpots speculating that LOTRO would be a wow killer? Sure. Just like there are crackpots that say WoW is doomed, or that AoC and WAR will be WoW killers.
In fact, I recall several people here and on the official boards hoping that LOTRO WOULDN'T be a "WoW killer". They didn't want that crowd of people in the game. That is my recollection.
So you are saying LotRO is on par with two games not even popular enough to be in stores? Great argument, rofl.
As for nobody claiming it was to be a WoW killer that is absolutely false. Several remarks from Turbine themselves intimated as much, even the one i posted has the 6 mil joke but he seriously proclaims it the second most succesful MMO or whatever. And more than that - enough people around these boards went off saying it was on its way to millions of subs and such that it is warranted to point out it was anything but.
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I can answer that one . Midways sales quarters follow the calender year. So those sales would be N American box sales between April 24th release and June 30 or about 67 days worth of sales for N America only. No numbers were released for Codemasters European sales, although the game was a chart topper there for several weeks. Atari's numbers for Austrailia and Sakuru's numbers for Japan are not in that figure either. So really the 172 K is simply the tip of the iceburg although some here want to spin it into something it is not.
The origianl gist of the article was that LoTRO was the best selling game Midway had for the quarter. I quote from the article
http://www.gamespot.com/news/6176030.html
Meanwhile, the Wii edition of Mortal Kombat: Armageddon only moved about 38,500 units, and the critically drubbed Hour of Victory sold just 16,456 units at retail domestically.
the only thing the article said about LoTRO was
With solid reviews, The Lord of the Rings Online: Shadows of Angmar sold over 172,000 copies during the quarter, including the special edition of the game
Apparantly both Midway and Turbine are pleased with LoTRO's sales
here is what MMORPG.com said in last weeks interview
www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/setview/features/loadFeature/1377/gameID/45
By the Numbers
While Jeff, not surprisingly, wouldn't talk about exact figures, the success of the game is difficult to deny, just look at the shelf of your local game store. I know the EB down the road to me has an entire shelf dedicated to the game.
While he wouldn't talk about specific numbers, Jeff did say this: "We are tracking to the plan we had for bringing this game out into the market. We know we launched successfully... and now we're looking at how we can reach out to a larger audience."
"We're growing in every possible direction," said Jeffrey, speaking about the game's success. He went on to tell me that not only did they have a simultaneous launch in North America and Europe, but that the game has been as successful with the Europeans as it was here in NA. "This IP has a native resonance with them in the same way it does for North Americans."
Beyond those two markets, Germany, I am told is a big market for the game and with the game already launched in Japan and a Chinese launch coming up (as well as other parts of Asia), the future looks bright for this game in terms of overall subscribers.
I miss DAoC
Your want to talk about spin? Your doing the same thing by assuming LOTRO will sell just as well or better overseas.
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
Sorry Agentsmith i know how much you and a few other haters would love for LoTRO to fail miserably , so you can somehow be justified and jump up and say "See I told you so!" but its not. Its no wow Killer, but it will be around for sometime. (well thats what I believe anyway I'm sure you have your own thoughts on the matter
) Also any reference from you that you really don't care is so much BS really even you can't believe that if you go back and look over your posting history of the last few months (at least I hope you can't possibly buy that line even from yourself)
SO go get some popcorn and sit back and wait if it fails and Turbine goes under you will have your moment of glee, and you can shout "I told you so!" and all those posts of yours will be vindicated, and everyone will have to bow to your superior intelligence (and snazzy computer rig
) if not, oh well I'm sure you've been wrong before in your life you'll survive (I hope)
I miss DAoC
By region, stable sales of Lineage® and Linage II led to first quarter sales of KRW 50 billion (US$53.8 million) in Korea, KRW 12.9 billion (US$13.9 million) in North America, KRW 7.8 billion (US$8.4 million) in Europe and KRW 8.1 billion (US$8.7 million) in Japan. NCsoft also realized KRW 3.7 billion (US$3.4 million) in royalty income. Taiwan, which has been included in first quarter consolidated earnings for the first time, recorded sales of KRW 2.3 billion (US$2.5 million). Korea sustained a moderate quarter-to-quarter and year-to-year growth in sales of 2%, while both North America and Europe saw sales drop 28% quarter-to-quarter. However North American and Europe saw sales increases year-to-year of 14% and 102% respectively. By game title, sales of Lineage recorded KRW 30.4 billion, Lineage II KRW 32.8 billion (US$35.3 million), City of Heroes®/City of Villains® KRW 6 billion (US$6.5 million) and Guild Wars® KRW 11.5 billion (US$12.4 million). The percentage breakdown of sales by game title shows Lineage and Lineage II with 38% and 41%, respectively, followed by Guild Wars with 14% and City of Heroes/City of Villains with 7%.
What the hell does Lineage 2 have to do with anything? Did you even READ what you just copied ? First you can't be bothered to do research, and now that you actually do some you post something you didn't even read it?? Stop making a fool out of yourself. Every statement I make is based on facts, yours are not.
Might be missing the jist of this post here but thought its important to point out BC is being given out free in China to all players that own WoW, and as such I'm guessing the sells figures of BC in china will be a fairly mote point. (Though no don't Blizzard will use the number of free BC copies given out as sold figures To keep the hype)
I can answer that one . Midways sales quarters follow the calender year. So those sales would be N American box sales between April 24th release and June 30 or about 67 days worth of sales for N America only. No numbers were released for Codemasters European sales, although the game was a chart topper there for several weeks. Atari's numbers for Austrailia and Sakuru's numbers for Japan are not in that figure either. So really the 172 K is simply the tip of the iceburg although some here want to spin it into something it is not.
The origianl gist of the article was that LoTRO was the best selling game Midway had for the quarter. I quote from the article
http://www.gamespot.com/news/6176030.html
Meanwhile, the Wii edition of Mortal Kombat: Armageddon only moved about 38,500 units, and the critically drubbed Hour of Victory sold just 16,456 units at retail domestically.
the only thing the article said about LoTRO was
With solid reviews, The Lord of the Rings Online: Shadows of Angmar sold over 172,000 copies during the quarter, including the special edition of the game
Apparantly both Midway and Turbine are pleased with LoTRO's sales
here is what MMORPG.com said in last weeks interview
www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/setview/features/loadFeature/1377/gameID/45
By the Numbers
While Jeff, not surprisingly, wouldn't talk about exact figures, the success of the game is difficult to deny, just look at the shelf of your local game store. I know the EB down the road to me has an entire shelf dedicated to the game.
While he wouldn't talk about specific numbers, Jeff did say this: "We are tracking to the plan we had for bringing this game out into the market. We know we launched successfully... and now we're looking at how we can reach out to a larger audience."
"We're growing in every possible direction," said Jeffrey, speaking about the game's success. He went on to tell me that not only did they have a simultaneous launch in North America and Europe, but that the game has been as successful with the Europeans as it was here in NA. "This IP has a native resonance with them in the same way it does for North Americans."
Beyond those two markets, Germany, I am told is a big market for the game and with the game already launched in Japan and a Chinese launch coming up (as well as other parts of Asia), the future looks bright for this game in terms of overall subscribers.
Your want to talk about spin? Your doing the same thing by assuming LOTRO will sell just as well or better overseas.
Where did I assume anything in my post? I don't think anyone ewith even half a brain would assume that 9 weeks of sales from one market area is more than a fraction of total sales. There is a hell of a lot more gamers than just those in N America you know. I am a American and I would never be so arrogant as to assume otherwise. Even WoW only has 2 million players in N America
IRVINE, Calif. – January 11, 2007 – Blizzard Entertainment, Inc. announced today that World of Warcraft®, its subscription-based massively multiplayer online role-playing game (MMORPG), is now played by more than 8 million gamers around the world. World of Warcraft has also achieved new regional subscriber milestones, with more than 2 million players in North America, more than 1.5 million players in Europe, and more than 3.5 million players in China.
www.blizzard.com/press/070111.shtml
Oh and it does look like Chinese do count as subscriptions so any numers LoTROP has there will also count toward their subscription numbers after all.
I miss DAoC
It is a game discussion website, that doesn't mean discussion only those games you love but all games. I post on topics I find interesting. Given the wild claims by fans and Turbine alike I find it interesting that we now know LotRO had anything but stellar sales. You can wiggle and spin all you want but anyone with half a brain knows that 172 boxes sold in the game's likely biggest market in the first quarter after launch with a major IP title and next to no new releases to distract from it is TERRIBLE, or at the very least unremarkable.
Sorry LotRO fanboys - but this is one you cannot win no matter how much you care to blabber about obfuscating the issue. 172,00 copies in North America in more than two months post release is not good and whatever the European numbers are it is unlikely that LotRO has anything more than somewhere in the mid to high 100k subscriptions. Possibly viable depending on the cost of the IP and overall development costs, but hardly a raving, runaway success. In fact, the undeniable fact of these numbers is that LotRO probably has allot of work left to do to break even and clear a profit - something most large titles such as it would have hoped to do within the first couple months from box sales. A reasonable estimation would have it, at best, having made around 18 million from box sales in the first quarter (presuming Euro sales where on par with NA sales). Given that a major title such as this is likely to have cost anywhere from $15 to $25 million for development without including the IP royalties and engine development LotRO still has allot to make up. As far as I understand Turbine used their own engine for LotRO (same one that DDO uses, you can even recognize a number of assets common in both) so that helps with costs but it is unlikely that proper accounting wouldn't be amortizing at least a couple million of the engine costs to LotRO's bottom line. IP costs can vary, and can be steep - I would say at least $1 million and upwards of $3 to $4 million. Add all this up and you get a cost to develop that is easily in the $25 to $30 million range. Given the numbers we know it is likely they are still well short of recouping development costs and while a couple hundred K subs is solid and viable it is certainly not a raving success and depending on turbine's financial position may or may not be viable. Trying to make up $10 or $15 million in development costs once live is not easy. For one the debt is costly, for anther there are ongoing costs, and lastly games don't often sell more as time goes by despite someone's claim to the contrary earlier. With several large blockbuster games coming it is also reasonable to assume that LotRO will at best lose new interest and at worst lose subs.
Mind you I am not calling LotRO a failure - only Turbine can make that call, I am just pointing out that despite the braggadocio from fans and Turbine it is not what they have both been saying it is. I imagine Turbine will manage things and make money off LotRO, they seem to be a responsible company in that regard. But that much is irrelevant the marketing hype and bandwagon BS they have been bellowing out for months. Reasoned analysis shows that it is not what its hype, its fans, and its developers have been bragging that it was. I think this is a valid topic of conversation, especially since so many insist on denying obvious facts just because they have some emotional interest in seeing their fav game do well. Sorry if it hurts to have to eat crow now that facts are emerging that disperse the hype and wild claims but that is life - get over it.
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Good by whose standards Smith? 179 K in 9 weeks in just N America would mean close to ten million in gross box sales. According to people in the business it was a success. Figure at least that much in Europe and probably another 100K for Japan and Austrailia. I would call about 20 - 25 million gross in 9 weeks a pretty good success.
I miss DAoC
Really I must not be paying as much attention as you. (Which would seem to me to show you care much more about weither LoTRO fails or does well then i do dispite the fact you hate it and i find it a fun enough way to spend a few hours a week) but the only one I see seriously saying anyone claimed that LoTRO is a wow killer or has millions of subscribers is you.( if there are others evidently few if any of us took them seriously, except you
) We all agree on the numbers more or less except you seem to be implying that the 2nd quater NA sells are the be all and end all.
The game hasn't failed and gone bottum up as I seem to recall you implying it would several months ago so wouldn't that mean you are eating just as much crow as those that said it would be a wow killer? Also Reasoned analysis tends to use facts from both sides of the arguement not just one side. Your posts and arguement as far as I've seen (and I'm sure out of the hundreds (?) of LoTRO hate post you made since its release I have missed many) seem to only use facts and statements (some statement you seem to have pulled out of thin air like saying Jackdog said there were over 600K subscribers(?)) from one side. This of course is the way to win a debate, but doesn't make for "Reasoned analysis" or anything more honest/truthfull then in any political debate.
Look over your posts and consider the facts, you have a emotional attachment to this debate as much as any you claim the rabid fanbois have (Who me?
) You claim the fanbois have a emotional interest in seeing the game do well yet it seems to me you have just as strong a emotional interest in seeing it fail. (This is not just from the posts in this thread, nore do i admit is it froming seeing all your posts from all the threads, but I have seen many posts over several threads for the past several months since LoTRO release most of which i haven't responded to).
Come on I dare you to recheck some of your posts since LoTRO release several months ago and even more recent ones and do a "Reasoned alalysis" and say you don't have some kind of "emotional interest" beyound the pure "I find interesting".
In the end it bothers me not weither you call me a rabid fanboi carebare, and I'm sure it doesn't bother you if I lable you as a hater for your one sided and illogical debate, but its always interesting when the pot calls the kettle black (ie in referance to emotional interest etc.) Note i am not saying I am making a "reasoned analysis". I know enough to admit I am not a neutral party, I don't make false claims claiming to be. Nore is my computer snazzy (its a 2 y/o alienware 3.2 ghz,
I am sooo not uber) Thank you and Goodday! 
By region, stable sales of Lineage® and Linage II led to first quarter sales of KRW 50 billion (US$53.8 million) in Korea, KRW 12.9 billion (US$13.9 million) in North America, KRW 7.8 billion (US$8.4 million) in Europe and KRW 8.1 billion (US$8.7 million) in Japan. NCsoft also realized KRW 3.7 billion (US$3.4 million) in royalty income. Taiwan, which has been included in first quarter consolidated earnings for the first time, recorded sales of KRW 2.3 billion (US$2.5 million). Korea sustained a moderate quarter-to-quarter and year-to-year growth in sales of 2%, while both North America and Europe saw sales drop 28% quarter-to-quarter. However North American and Europe saw sales increases year-to-year of 14% and 102% respectively. By game title, sales of Lineage recorded KRW 30.4 billion, Lineage II KRW 32.8 billion (US$35.3 million), City of Heroes®/City of Villains® KRW 6 billion (US$6.5 million) and Guild Wars® KRW 11.5 billion (US$12.4 million). The percentage breakdown of sales by game title shows Lineage and Lineage II with 38% and 41%, respectively, followed by Guild Wars with 14% and City of Heroes/City of Villains with 7%.
What the hell does Lineage 2 have to do with anything? Did you even READ what you just copied ? First you can't be bothered to do research, and now that you actually do some you post something you didn't even read it?? Stop making a fool out of yourself. Every statement I make is based on facts, yours are not.
Might be missing the jist of this post here but thought its important to point out BC is being given out free in China to all players that own WoW, and as such I'm guessing the sells figures of BC in china will be a fairly mote point. (Though no don't Blizzard will use the number of free BC copies given out as sold figures To keep the hype)
The Burning Crusade was not even released in China when Blizzard made the press release. And besides that, Chinese won't have to pay for TBC. Its not a "sale".