While you don't think it's advanced, it is. There isn't any other fantasy mmo with that degree of real time combat. But also, look at videos of other games with auto attack... they rarely connect and it's often disguised with some giant glow effect.
I agree. There are some syncing problems. But AgtSmith, what about just about every other MMOG? Lets take WoW for example. The attacks in that 'hit' an opponent, you just git a flash of light or particle effect. Hell you can be 10' away from the mob, your weapons and his attacks not coming close to even appearing to hit each other. But because they react to a hit, and you get a special effect, oh that looks fine. I don't see you being critical of every other MMOG that does the above, or what Jackcolt talked about in this quote.
About 3/4 the way through that a big group is swinging away at a dinosaur. They are oh 10' away from it. Not only is it not reacting at all to being hit, but the only evidence that he's even being hit are the bright sparkly flashes. Even when he 'bites' it doesn't come close to hitting anybody, yet clearly it hit someone, thats the way auto-target/auto-attack games work.
So I don't see why you are so insistent that the elegant and real-time combat in AoC looks so bloody fake because mobs aren't recoiling from every strike, and a pole-arm is somehow able to hit a mob behind someone. Or that, god forbid, a players foot is 1/2 way through a frozen mob.
Call me a Fanboi all you like. I just think your argument, while reasonable to be sure, is overblown and melodramatic, when AoC's combat is compared to the standard fair everything else uses.
QFT.
AoC doesnt use the sparky flashes that WoW does to indicate a hit...they are shooting for realism. Looking at the videos you do get reactions from hitting an opponent; sorry if its not as "complete" as youd like it to be, but you cant have everyhing. Its an MMO and technology doesnt support that right now.
I love it how people post these absolute messages saying the game will suck based on a couple videos and based on the animations yeah really its gonna suck cause the enemy doesnt fly back 5 feet instead of 2 when striking him with a warhammer.
While you don't think it's advanced, it is. There isn't any other fantasy mmo with that degree of real time combat. But also, look at videos of other games with auto attack... they rarely connect and it's often disguised with some giant glow effect.
I agree. There are some syncing problems. But AgtSmith, what about just about every other MMOG? Lets take WoW for example. The attacks in that 'hit' an opponent, you just git a flash of light or particle effect. Hell you can be 10' away from the mob, your weapons and his attacks not coming close to even appearing to hit each other. But because they react to a hit, and you get a special effect, oh that looks fine. I don't see you being critical of every other MMOG that does the above, or what Jackcolt talked about in this quote.
About 3/4 the way through that a big group is swinging away at a dinosaur. They are oh 10' away from it. Not only is it not reacting at all to being hit, but the only evidence that he's even being hit are the bright sparkly flashes. Even when he 'bites' it doesn't come close to hitting anybody, yet clearly it hit someone, thats the way auto-target/auto-attack games work.
So I don't see why you are so insistent that the elegant and real-time combat in AoC looks so bloody fake because mobs aren't recoiling from every strike, and a pole-arm is somehow able to hit a mob behind someone. Or that, god forbid, a players foot is 1/2 way through a frozen mob.
Call me a Fanboi all you like. I just think your argument, while reasonable to be sure, is overblown and melodramatic, when AoC's combat is compared to the standard fair everything else uses.
QFT.
AoC doesnt use the sparky flashes that WoW does to indicate a hit...they are shooting for realism. Looking at the videos you do get reactions from hitting an opponent; sorry if its not as "complete" as youd like it to be, but you cant have everyhing. Its an MMO and technology doesnt support that right now.
I love it how people post these absolute messages saying the game will suck based on a couple videos and based on the animations yeah really its gonna suck cause the enemy doesnt fly back 5 feet instead of 2 when striking him with a warhammer.
If AoC is shooting for realism, its failed miserably.
Thats the problem with Fion's comparison. Those other games? Like WoW? They aren't making outrageous claims about its 'super duper next generation combat!'. They aren't claiming they are close to realism. BUT AoC is, and so its going to have to pony up, either that or admit the combat really isn't all that realistic. It just doesn't meet the quality that fans pump it up to be (unless you are fanboy of course, who think Funcom's own shit smells great ).
I agree. There are some syncing problems. But AgtSmith, what about just about every other MMOG? Lets take WoW for example. ...
Call me a Fanboi all you like. I just think your argument, while reasonable to be sure, is overblown and melodramatic, when AoC's combat is compared to the standard fair everything else uses.
The differance between those other games and AoC is the real time combat system. Think of an FPS, you need accurate representations of the enemy or you simply cannot play properly since you are acting in real time. If animations are out of sync, if a guy in front of you is actually in back or whatever then you real time action is jacked up. Again, like I said before - consider playing Mortal Combat or some other fighting game and having a behind you facing away grab and flip you - it would totally ruin the way the game mechanic works. Yes, that is standard fare for an MMO where you are not acting in real time, you are doing turn based stuff - but add real time as Conan does and that stuff better be damn accurate and in sync.
And BTW - i never said it would suck - I said it seems to have some pretty big issues.
AmazingAveryAge of Conan AdvocateMemberUncommonPosts: 7,188
Guys, Guys, Guys!
Two things to really remember and take into account.
1. Its good that people voice their opinions, those often voicing concerns think its the be all and end all therefore its what we are going to get which isn't the case.
2. To just the game on either one or a couple of videos is stupid. AoC's hype is justified by what the overall picture will be thats been said will be included in the game - the whole freekin deal - what they offer in relation to whats been shown imo does allow for the hype. Granted some important aspects haven't made their way to public viewing yet, but to judge AoC's combat based on that video from E3 is idiotic. There are the caster and ranger classes and other elements of melee to been seen on such a scope like the E3 demo. Someone want to tell me that AoC's Ranger class is crap? Have you seen the sniper mode for that? Someone want to tell me from what we have seen in a couple of video's the mounted horseback fighting was crap? Someone want to tell me the healing "Cone" spells are crap? Pass judgement on the final verdict, hype the game on what you have seen. So lets all recognise that we are SPECIFICALLY talking about melee combat being a bit lax in regards to connection of Weapon > Enemy. I thought the Pet's shown in that video surrounded and attack the bad guys pretty good too. You want to judge the game on one type of combat specific then your a fool. Have an opinion on the matter either way, then offer something constructive to the conversation.
While you don't think it's advanced, it is. There isn't any other fantasy mmo with that degree of real time combat. But also, look at videos of other games with auto attack... they rarely connect and it's often disguised with some giant glow effect.
I agree. There are some syncing problems. But AgtSmith, what about just about every other MMOG? Lets take WoW for example. The attacks in that 'hit' an opponent, you just git a flash of light or particle effect. Hell you can be 10' away from the mob, your weapons and his attacks not coming close to even appearing to hit each other. But because they react to a hit, and you get a special effect, oh that looks fine. I don't see you being critical of every other MMOG that does the above, or what Jackcolt talked about in this quote.
About 3/4 the way through that a big group is swinging away at a dinosaur. They are oh 10' away from it. Not only is it not reacting at all to being hit, but the only evidence that he's even being hit are the bright sparkly flashes. Even when he 'bites' it doesn't come close to hitting anybody, yet clearly it hit someone, thats the way auto-target/auto-attack games work.
So I don't see why you are so insistent that the elegant and real-time combat in AoC looks so bloody fake because mobs aren't recoiling from every strike, and a pole-arm is somehow able to hit a mob behind someone. Or that, god forbid, a players foot is 1/2 way through a frozen mob.
Call me a Fanboi all you like. I just think your argument, while reasonable to be sure, is overblown and melodramatic, when AoC's combat is compared to the standard fair everything else uses.
QFT.
AoC doesnt use the sparky flashes that WoW does to indicate a hit...they are shooting for realism. Looking at the videos you do get reactions from hitting an opponent; sorry if its not as "complete" as youd like it to be, but you cant have everyhing. Its an MMO and technology doesnt support that right now.
I love it how people post these absolute messages saying the game will suck based on a couple videos and based on the animations yeah really its gonna suck cause the enemy doesnt fly back 5 feet instead of 2 when striking him with a warhammer.
If AoC is shooting for realism, its failed miserably.
Thats the problem with Fion's comparison. Those other games? Like WoW? They aren't making outrageous claims about its 'super duper next generation combat!'. They aren't claiming they are close to realism. BUT AoC is, and so its going to have to pony up, either that or admit the combat really isn't all that realistic. It just doesn't meet the quality that fans pump it up to be (unless you are fanboy of course, who think Funcom's own shit smells great ).
Considering that AoC is featuring a real time combat system that hasnt been used before - at least not this deep - than we can allow them that claim.
Yeah, AoC isnt that realistic - I mean come on, lets just put the brightly colored sparks in when you hit them to make it even more unrealistic. Yeah lets take the blood and put in stupid lights in there instead. Lets put in cartoony graphics with orcs instead of real life terrain. Yeah lets forget about the motion capturer Funcom has in their basement.
Oh, I know now! Lets just take away the game ENTIRELY and instead make a magical portal that will transfer you to Hyboria. I think thats good enough for realism! The only thing you'll have to risk is perma death, but hey, its worth it, at least you'll see some *very detailed* reactions when you hit your opponent neh?
2. To just the game on either one or a couple of videos is stupid. AoC's hype is justified by what the overall picture will be thats been said will be included in the game - the whole freekin deal - what they offer in relation to whats been shown imo does allow for the hype. Granted some important aspects haven't made their way to public viewing yet, but to judge AoC's combat based on that video from E3 is idiotic. There are the caster and ranger classes and other elements of melee to been seen on such a scope like the E3 demo. Someone want to tell me that AoC's Ranger class is crap? Have you seen the sniper mode for that? Someone want to tell me from what we have seen in a couple of video's the mounted horseback fighting was crap? Someone want to tell me the healing "Cone" spells are crap? Pass judgement on the final verdict, hype the game on what you have seen. So lets all recognise that we are SPECIFICALLY talking about melee combat being a bit lax in regards to connection of Weapon > Enemy. I thought the Pet's shown in that video surrounded and attack the bad guys pretty good too. You want to judge the game on one type of combat specific then your a fool. Have an opinion on the matter either way, then offer something constructive to the conversation.
So far the only real combat shown is melee. Granted theres been casted a few spell and some arrows, but almost every vid`s released showing combat are focusing on melee combat. And btw, what would a Conan game be without swords and axes? And tbh the few spellcasting sequences dosnt look particulary good, but then again -i always thought spells, skills and effects looks extremely poor and boring in 90% of the mmorpgs out there.
And i honestly think it is very constructive to point out this; the melee combat system seems fake in its current state. If its possible to rework it abit towards better weapon connection and more alive physics, alot of AoC fans would be very happy.
Noboddy helps Funcom making a better game if they arent beeing honest. "Oh did Funcom think King Conan should be a long bearded Dwarf?". " Thats fine because the city hes ruling looks so cool"
The random swinging in the air you might see after a foe is fallen is the result of a "Combo" coming to conclusion. It could be that the combo and several moves to it, which were pulled off during the fight just before the foe died, resulting in a continuation of swinging until completion. It has been said that it is better to complete the combo than to break one - for energy purposes. The swinging of melee weapons are designed to revolve around the shape and weight of the weapon, if you weild a hammer type, expect the swing to be slow and wide say. Further more with a title like - " Aoc combat looks like 2d sprites moonwalking and hitting holes in the air" is not a fair representation of the game is it.?? why... because your basing your title on the assumption of one character model fighting. Does a Necromancer look like a 2d sprite hitting holes in the air? How about a ranger? Oh thats right !!!! we haven' t seen all the classes in different scenerios yet have we, so its really nice for everyone here (esp the 3 war bois) to get their fan out and start trying to fan away on a small potential problem. Be more concerned about your favourite game and how horrible the annimations look will you. http://lol-warhammer.ytmnd.com/
Just wow, WAR motions need polish ill give you that but currently AOC motions needs total retooling.If you cant see that then you lack the ablitity to let go of fanboism and be objective. If they release it as is AOC will be the First figure Skatin MMO to date. Or maybe its really cold in Conan land and its ice they are sliding on. My orginal stament a month a go still stands AOC movements is the wiki for lollerskates
Guys, Guys, Guys! Two things to really remember and take into account. 1. Its good that people voice their opinions, those often voicing concerns think its the be all and end all therefore its what we are going to get which isn't the case. 2. To just the game on either one or a couple of videos is stupid. AoC's hype is justified by what the overall picture will be thats been said will be included in the game - the whole freekin deal - what they offer in relation to whats been shown imo does allow for the hype. Granted some important aspects haven't made their way to public viewing yet, but to judge AoC's combat based on that video from E3 is idiotic. There are the caster and ranger classes and other elements of melee to been seen on such a scope like the E3 demo. Someone want to tell me that AoC's Ranger class is crap? Have you seen the sniper mode for that? Someone want to tell me from what we have seen in a couple of video's the mounted horseback fighting was crap? Someone want to tell me the healing "Cone" spells are crap? Pass judgement on the final verdict, hype the game on what you have seen. So lets all recognise that we are SPECIFICALLY talking about melee combat being a bit lax in regards to connection of Weapon > Enemy. I thought the Pet's shown in that video surrounded and attack the bad guys pretty good too. You want to judge the game on one type of combat specific then your a fool. Have an opinion on the matter either way, then offer something constructive to the conversation.
All kidding aside I have to agree with this statement I will be getting AOC, and I hope they retool some of the melle wepons and movements, some of them seem stiff or unnatural. But range,spells, and horse combat are the closes thing my going to get to this gem od a single player game, Mount and blade and that make me happy. youtube.com/watch Mount and Blade is a simple real time combat game yet fun
AmazingAveryAge of Conan AdvocateMemberUncommonPosts: 7,188
Xprimez please do me a favour and don't write in the quotation box because in you last 2 posts it looks like I said everything you posted which I didn't. Either that or highlight and change the text colour of one of the people so its better readable. You see its pretty easy to manipulate or make a quote appear something different.
All types of comabt sytle havent been shown in depth.....Yet!
Originally posted by xprimez
I hear you guys. I think total immersive rp will take some work. Because everything will be moving a 100 miles an hour . But if the Destiny quests are all the meat and potatos they seem to be then I could see a rp guild ripping it up, and contributing to the war effort to boot. What made me sad about wow was they said all these pvp things where gonna be in place, raid towns and what you did or didnt do mattered. The world pvp in the expac is a small candle and a year to late to what the original promise. I saw many a guild leave Lineage2 battle harden and castle raiding to degenerate into a loot whoring cesspool. I think Age of Conan as a whole is so ripe with personality you cant help but be passionate to your side and rp a little bit. Really get into it, If these battle crys in game dont move you, I dont think you have a pulse mate.
For me the combat seems way to slow. It might change, it might be because the character wields a slow weapon. But it seems like everything is running in 0.75 speed.
And then ofcourse the indication that you hit something. Its not a technical leap to make that possible. Its just a small animation that is played when the game registers a hit. And it would be a whole lot better than 10 gallons of blood, from a single blow.
For me the combat seems way to slow. It might change, it might be because the character wields a slow weapon. But it seems like everything is running in 0.75 speed. And then ofcourse the indication that you hit something. Its not a technical leap to make that possible. Its just a small animation that is played when the game registers a hit. And it would be a whole lot better than 10 gallons of blood, from a single blow.
I guess that's for the Sake of Realism. Because you know, the Weapons actually weigh rather much, an untrained person can't even hold a 2-handed-sword properly.
But for the same reason that Movies make such fights quicker, a Game should do so too, for the sake of entertainment
For me the combat seems way to slow. It might change, it might be because the character wields a slow weapon. But it seems like everything is running in 0.75 speed. And then ofcourse the indication that you hit something. Its not a technical leap to make that possible. Its just a small animation that is played when the game registers a hit. And it would be a whole lot better than 10 gallons of blood, from a single blow.
I guess that's for the Sake of Realism. Because you know, the Weapons actually weigh rather much, an untrained person can't even hold a 2-handed-sword properly.
But for the same reason that Movies make such fights quicker, a Game should do so too, for the sake of entertainment
Well too much reaslism gets boring. If you want real realism, they should make an MMO where you have to go to an office, and sit in meetings etc. Its for the sake of the realism, but not very fun.
They should speed up the fighting a bit. It looks clunky and tedious right now. Like trying to fight in the water with a foam sword.
All combat vids I have seen look clumsy, you face an enemy and start a slowwwww 5 swing combo, enemy dies after 2 swings yet your toon keeps swinging away.. very clumsy and looks stupid. AoC is one the games that look good on paper but as a game.. nah it don't work. With the release a few months away it makes we worry why they are not hamming the world of MMO with videos, beta keys and information... do I smell a "got potential, give it some time" vanguard release?
....... you can stop the animation at any given time... Not FC problems that the "reporters" dont do that..
But on the othere hand, do you realy care at all I smell another wartroll
You can stop the animation? Please show me a video of an animation stopping halfway through. The "reporters" aren't the ones playing the game. It's the Funcom Devs that are playing the game, so yes it's their problem.
If you notice in some of the videos if the first target dies midway through the combo, the player (the dev) turns quickly to finish the combo on the next target. Also in their latest E3 stage demo, there are countless examples of them having to wait for a combo to end. Even to walk you have to wait for the animation to stop.
If you have proof otherwise, please link it.
EDIT: to Elgareth. They must really be picking and choosing their points of realism then. lol. Cause I know that people wearing plate armor don't bleed that much when they're hit with a sword.
--------------------------------------------- I live to fight, and fight to live.
Actually thats wrong. In most the videos from last month or late June in the IGN website, which the OP linked to. That was reporters, playing the game for about an hour, for the first time ever. You can clearly see that they are clunky with the combat system and don't really know what they are doing, especially compared to the Gamespot E3 demonstration, were Devs were playing, and the combat was very fluid and smooth. It's just another example on how important player skill is to the game.
Didn't realize that reporters got to play the game. That's cool.
But I wasn't referring to that, I was referring to the stage demo, and how they couldn't stop the combat animation midway through, you had to wait until it was done.
The reason they made it smooth is because they know this, so when the mob dies they swivel the guy around to attack the next guy. It looks great, but all I was saying that you couldn't do was break a combat animation in the middle, and from everything we've seen, whether it be reporters or devs, you have to wait until the animation is done. The animation even moves forward for you.
I haven't seen anyone side step while swinging the sword. I think this is just a bad decision with animation, making the attack animation a full body animation rather than a torso only animation. When you incorporate the legs moving into an attack animation, it makes the combat feel very stiff, and with CD in, it makes them iceskate or footslide quite a bit.
This could have been countered by making the attack animations torso only, and letting the running and sidestepping still be dictated by the user, instead of by which animation was occurring at that time.
I just think it's a mistake in animation choice. And I think after playing for a few days, it'll become annoying, but these are only my thoughts on it, and they're just pure speculation. I can't prove I'm right, and no one can prove me wrong.
--------------------------------------------- I live to fight, and fight to live.
Basicly ive been a AoC Fanboi for while now. Was astoned by some of the enverioments and the ideas about combat, the rough universe and that the game pointed towards adult players. But... Watching some of the new gameplay trailers i just must admit; it just dont look like a game i feel like playing atm. ( http://media.pc.ign.com/media/743/743392/vids_1.html ) The combat totally lacks that "omphf" effect, it looks, in my humble opinion, like 2d sprites or dolls, who float around and hitting big holes in the air, while some stiff mobs are falling to the ground somewhere behind all the random swinging. You guys at Funcom need to focus alot more at the 1vs1 ( player vs mobs) "feel", like working at the collision between weapon and flesh. Its a realy cool idea that u just swing ur sword and hit stuff if theres something in its path..BUT, you need to make it actually look like the sword, mace, axe whatever actually peels the skin, collide with the felsh. Atm i think i would prefere the click and slash system instead of the current, Alpha version of AoC combat. Click and slash atlast makes me feel im actually hurting the mob. Anyways. I still looking foreward to se the finished version, and i realy do hope that theese new gameplay footage aint representive for the finished ingame combat:) With high Hopes.
You are simply expecting too much. I am not thoroghly convinced AoC will be good, but it is an RPG genre game so look at what it has as an improvement from old fashioned turn based RPG combat .
Grymm MMO addict in recovery! EQ,SWG preCU,L2,EQ2,GW,CoH/CoV,V:SOH, Aion,AoC,TR,WAR,EVE,BP,RIFT,WoW and others... no more!
Hope they show it off soon. Some people expect the combat to be not only genre pushing, but above and beyond anything even POSSIBLE in most other MMOGs.
Keep in mind that the reason people like me are being so critical about the combat is because the Funcom devs have stated that it will be above and beyond anything in most other MMOGs.
It's not that people are coming up with this hype out of thin air. We're reading what the devs are saying, and then seeing something slightly less, and being disappointed.
Not to say that what we've seen so far isn't great. It just isn't "as" great as the devs are making it out to be before they display it to us.
This is why I'm not holding my breath when it comes to GvG sieges. I just expect it to be a step below what they've been "saying" for what seems like years.
I hope I'm wrong, but I highly doubt it.
I say this because they also said that the combos were dynamic and that combo would be going on as you swing, not at the end of a series of swings, which is what we've both seen from that Stage Demo.
I immediately questioned how they were going to make a dynamic combo like they claimed, and then it was apparent it wasn't possible once I saw the stage demo.
I'm just a bit nervous how those animations (since they move your character forward) are going to look in PvP. They really need to just axe the lower part of the animations. How is the character going to strafe around someone "while swinging" if the animation has them stuck moving forward?
--------------------------------------------- I live to fight, and fight to live.
You are simply expecting too much. I am not thoroghly convinced AoC will be good, but it is an RPG genre game so look at what it has as an improvement from old fashioned turn based RPG combat .
Maybe i am. You can say ive been "hyped". And i fully agree that AoC looks like a aprovement on alot of areas. One of the areas where we somewhat was promised a improvement was the combat system. And i can not say for sure before ive played the finished game; but the current footages ive seen of the combat system dosnt looks like a particular leap foreward compared to the old "click and spendvariousskills" system. And maybe it would be wise to wait with irl time combat on this scale ( 2-4 players fighting bunches of mobs) untill the technology supports it. So far ive learned from this thread that if you want irl time combat then you have to live with a flawed system, cause its simply not possible with current computers and cablespeed, to do it in a quality which would satisfy a big part of the customers.
I still hope thats its possible to tweak the system abit. Add some small "Ouch" animations, and get rid of the rollerblades....
I'm no fanboi. I have my fair share of doubts about AoC, but you can't base anything on those E3 videos. There were network overload if you read the articles about the event so thats why everything was "out of sync".
hopefully we will see that mass siege battle later this month. I will hold my breath until then.
All good points on both sides I suppose. I don't mean to say I think the game will suck or anything, just that I see things that don't look like what I thought it was supposed to be, issues in other words. I will definitely check it out but if these things I saw in the videos persist in Live a big part of what I found interesting about AoC will have gone away as I was looking to it for an MMO with combat that isn't some remote control type result tabulating/generating typical MMO combat system. In other words, I want real time control of the character as I would in an FPS or something like Oblivion and not be remotely issuing the commands and watching animations to see outcomes (accurate or not).
In watching the videos, I think it's far superior in graphics compared to the current WAR videos that are out (which were shockingly BAD IMO)
My only concern with what I see in AoC is that it's very "boyish," lots of testosterone flying through the blood spattered air. This will turn off a lot of female gamers such as myself.
Comments
I agree. There are some syncing problems. But AgtSmith, what about just about every other MMOG? Lets take WoW for example. The attacks in that 'hit' an opponent, you just git a flash of light or particle effect. Hell you can be 10' away from the mob, your weapons and his attacks not coming close to even appearing to hit each other. But because they react to a hit, and you get a special effect, oh that looks fine. I don't see you being critical of every other MMOG that does the above, or what Jackcolt talked about in this quote.
Lets take an example. How bout this WoW video.
http://www.gametrailers.com/player/68.html
About 3/4 the way through that a big group is swinging away at a dinosaur. They are oh 10' away from it. Not only is it not reacting at all to being hit, but the only evidence that he's even being hit are the bright sparkly flashes. Even when he 'bites' it doesn't come close to hitting anybody, yet clearly it hit someone, thats the way auto-target/auto-attack games work.
So I don't see why you are so insistent that the elegant and real-time combat in AoC looks so bloody fake because mobs aren't recoiling from every strike, and a pole-arm is somehow able to hit a mob behind someone. Or that, god forbid, a players foot is 1/2 way through a frozen mob.
Call me a Fanboi all you like. I just think your argument, while reasonable to be sure, is overblown and melodramatic, when AoC's combat is compared to the standard fair everything else uses.
QFT.
AoC doesnt use the sparky flashes that WoW does to indicate a hit...they are shooting for realism. Looking at the videos you do get reactions from hitting an opponent; sorry if its not as "complete" as youd like it to be, but you cant have everyhing. Its an MMO and technology doesnt support that right now.
I love it how people post these absolute messages saying the game will suck based on a couple videos and based on the animations
yeah really its gonna suck cause the enemy doesnt fly back 5 feet instead of 2 when striking him with a warhammer.
I agree. There are some syncing problems. But AgtSmith, what about just about every other MMOG? Lets take WoW for example. The attacks in that 'hit' an opponent, you just git a flash of light or particle effect. Hell you can be 10' away from the mob, your weapons and his attacks not coming close to even appearing to hit each other. But because they react to a hit, and you get a special effect, oh that looks fine. I don't see you being critical of every other MMOG that does the above, or what Jackcolt talked about in this quote.
Lets take an example. How bout this WoW video.
http://www.gametrailers.com/player/68.html
About 3/4 the way through that a big group is swinging away at a dinosaur. They are oh 10' away from it. Not only is it not reacting at all to being hit, but the only evidence that he's even being hit are the bright sparkly flashes. Even when he 'bites' it doesn't come close to hitting anybody, yet clearly it hit someone, thats the way auto-target/auto-attack games work.
So I don't see why you are so insistent that the elegant and real-time combat in AoC looks so bloody fake because mobs aren't recoiling from every strike, and a pole-arm is somehow able to hit a mob behind someone. Or that, god forbid, a players foot is 1/2 way through a frozen mob.
Call me a Fanboi all you like. I just think your argument, while reasonable to be sure, is overblown and melodramatic, when AoC's combat is compared to the standard fair everything else uses.
QFT.
AoC doesnt use the sparky flashes that WoW does to indicate a hit...they are shooting for realism. Looking at the videos you do get reactions from hitting an opponent; sorry if its not as "complete" as youd like it to be, but you cant have everyhing. Its an MMO and technology doesnt support that right now.
I love it how people post these absolute messages saying the game will suck based on a couple videos and based on the animations
yeah really its gonna suck cause the enemy doesnt fly back 5 feet instead of 2 when striking him with a warhammer.
If AoC is shooting for realism, its failed miserably.
Thats the problem with Fion's comparison. Those other games? Like WoW? They aren't making outrageous claims about its 'super duper next generation combat!'. They aren't claiming they are close to realism. BUT AoC is, and so its going to have to pony up, either that or admit the combat really isn't all that realistic. It just doesn't meet the quality that fans pump it up to be (unless you are fanboy of course, who think Funcom's own shit smells great
).
The differance between those other games and AoC is the real time combat system. Think of an FPS, you need accurate representations of the enemy or you simply cannot play properly since you are acting in real time. If animations are out of sync, if a guy in front of you is actually in back or whatever then you real time action is jacked up. Again, like I said before - consider playing Mortal Combat or some other fighting game and having a behind you facing away grab and flip you - it would totally ruin the way the game mechanic works. Yes, that is standard fare for an MMO where you are not acting in real time, you are doing turn based stuff - but add real time as Conan does and that stuff better be damn accurate and in sync.
And BTW - i never said it would suck - I said it seems to have some pretty big issues.
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Guys, Guys, Guys!
Two things to really remember and take into account.
1. Its good that people voice their opinions, those often voicing concerns think its the be all and end all therefore its what we are going to get which isn't the case.
2. To just the game on either one or a couple of videos is stupid. AoC's hype is justified by what the overall picture will be thats been said will be included in the game - the whole freekin deal - what they offer in relation to whats been shown imo does allow for the hype. Granted some important aspects haven't made their way to public viewing yet, but to judge AoC's combat based on that video from E3 is idiotic. There are the caster and ranger classes and other elements of melee to been seen on such a scope like the E3 demo. Someone want to tell me that AoC's Ranger class is crap? Have you seen the sniper mode for that? Someone want to tell me from what we have seen in a couple of video's the mounted horseback fighting was crap? Someone want to tell me the healing "Cone" spells are crap? Pass judgement on the final verdict, hype the game on what you have seen. So lets all recognise that we are SPECIFICALLY talking about melee combat being a bit lax in regards to connection of Weapon > Enemy. I thought the Pet's shown in that video surrounded and attack the bad guys pretty good too. You want to judge the game on one type of combat specific then your a fool. Have an opinion on the matter either way, then offer something constructive to the conversation.
I agree. There are some syncing problems. But AgtSmith, what about just about every other MMOG? Lets take WoW for example. The attacks in that 'hit' an opponent, you just git a flash of light or particle effect. Hell you can be 10' away from the mob, your weapons and his attacks not coming close to even appearing to hit each other. But because they react to a hit, and you get a special effect, oh that looks fine. I don't see you being critical of every other MMOG that does the above, or what Jackcolt talked about in this quote.
Lets take an example. How bout this WoW video.
http://www.gametrailers.com/player/68.html
About 3/4 the way through that a big group is swinging away at a dinosaur. They are oh 10' away from it. Not only is it not reacting at all to being hit, but the only evidence that he's even being hit are the bright sparkly flashes. Even when he 'bites' it doesn't come close to hitting anybody, yet clearly it hit someone, thats the way auto-target/auto-attack games work.
So I don't see why you are so insistent that the elegant and real-time combat in AoC looks so bloody fake because mobs aren't recoiling from every strike, and a pole-arm is somehow able to hit a mob behind someone. Or that, god forbid, a players foot is 1/2 way through a frozen mob.
Call me a Fanboi all you like. I just think your argument, while reasonable to be sure, is overblown and melodramatic, when AoC's combat is compared to the standard fair everything else uses.
QFT.
AoC doesnt use the sparky flashes that WoW does to indicate a hit...they are shooting for realism. Looking at the videos you do get reactions from hitting an opponent; sorry if its not as "complete" as youd like it to be, but you cant have everyhing. Its an MMO and technology doesnt support that right now.
I love it how people post these absolute messages saying the game will suck based on a couple videos and based on the animations
yeah really its gonna suck cause the enemy doesnt fly back 5 feet instead of 2 when striking him with a warhammer.
If AoC is shooting for realism, its failed miserably.
Thats the problem with Fion's comparison. Those other games? Like WoW? They aren't making outrageous claims about its 'super duper next generation combat!'. They aren't claiming they are close to realism. BUT AoC is, and so its going to have to pony up, either that or admit the combat really isn't all that realistic. It just doesn't meet the quality that fans pump it up to be (unless you are fanboy of course, who think Funcom's own shit smells great
).
Considering that AoC is featuring a real time combat system that hasnt been used before - at least not this deep - than we can allow them that claim.
Yeah, AoC isnt that realistic - I mean come on, lets just put the brightly colored sparks in when you hit them to make it even more unrealistic. Yeah lets take the blood and put in stupid lights in there instead. Lets put in cartoony graphics with orcs instead of real life terrain. Yeah lets forget about the motion capturer Funcom has in their basement.
Oh, I know now! Lets just take away the game ENTIRELY and instead make a magical portal that will transfer you to Hyboria. I think thats good enough for realism! The only thing you'll have to risk is perma death, but hey, its worth it, at least you'll see some *very detailed* reactions when you hit your opponent neh?
/sarcasm off
So far the only real combat shown is melee. Granted theres been casted a few spell and some arrows, but almost every vid`s released showing combat are focusing on melee combat. And btw, what would a Conan game be without swords and axes? And tbh the few spellcasting sequences dosnt look particulary good, but then again -i always thought spells, skills and effects looks extremely poor and boring in 90% of the mmorpgs out there.
And i honestly think it is very constructive to point out this; the melee combat system seems fake in its current state. If its possible to rework it abit towards better weapon connection and more alive physics, alot of AoC fans would be very happy.
Noboddy helps Funcom making a better game if they arent beeing honest. "Oh did Funcom think King Conan should be a long bearded Dwarf?". " Thats fine because the city hes ruling looks so cool"
What this post demonstrates is fanbois (no matter what game they come from) are in need of a friend, or a life or something else to think about
Xprimez please do me a favour and don't write in the quotation box because in you last 2 posts it looks like I said everything you posted which I didn't. Either that or highlight and change the text colour of one of the people so its better readable. You see its pretty easy to manipulate or make a quote appear something different.
All types of comabt sytle havent been shown in depth.....Yet!
For me the combat seems way to slow. It might change, it might be because the character wields a slow weapon. But it seems like everything is running in 0.75 speed.
And then ofcourse the indication that you hit something. Its not a technical leap to make that possible. Its just a small animation that is played when the game registers a hit. And it would be a whole lot better than 10 gallons of blood, from a single blow.
I guess that's for the Sake of Realism. Because you know, the Weapons actually weigh rather much, an untrained person can't even hold a 2-handed-sword properly.
But for the same reason that Movies make such fights quicker, a Game should do so too, for the sake of entertainment
I guess that's for the Sake of Realism. Because you know, the Weapons actually weigh rather much, an untrained person can't even hold a 2-handed-sword properly.
But for the same reason that Movies make such fights quicker, a Game should do so too, for the sake of entertainment
Well too much reaslism gets boring. If you want real realism, they should make an MMO where you have to go to an office, and sit in meetings etc. Its for the sake of the realism, but not very fun.They should speed up the fighting a bit. It looks clunky and tedious right now. Like trying to fight in the water with a foam sword.
....... you can stop the animation at any given time... Not FC problems that the "reporters" dont do that..
I smell another wartroll
But on the othere hand, do you realy care at all
You can stop the animation? Please show me a video of an animation stopping halfway through. The "reporters" aren't the ones playing the game. It's the Funcom Devs that are playing the game, so yes it's their problem.
If you notice in some of the videos if the first target dies midway through the combo, the player (the dev) turns quickly to finish the combo on the next target. Also in their latest E3 stage demo, there are countless examples of them having to wait for a combo to end. Even to walk you have to wait for the animation to stop.
If you have proof otherwise, please link it.
EDIT: to Elgareth. They must really be picking and choosing their points of realism then. lol. Cause I know that people wearing plate armor don't bleed that much when they're hit with a sword.
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I live to fight, and fight to live.
But I wasn't referring to that, I was referring to the stage demo, and how they couldn't stop the combat animation midway through, you had to wait until it was done.
The reason they made it smooth is because they know this, so when the mob dies they swivel the guy around to attack the next guy. It looks great, but all I was saying that you couldn't do was break a combat animation in the middle, and from everything we've seen, whether it be reporters or devs, you have to wait until the animation is done. The animation even moves forward for you.
I haven't seen anyone side step while swinging the sword. I think this is just a bad decision with animation, making the attack animation a full body animation rather than a torso only animation. When you incorporate the legs moving into an attack animation, it makes the combat feel very stiff, and with CD in, it makes them iceskate or footslide quite a bit.
This could have been countered by making the attack animations torso only, and letting the running and sidestepping still be dictated by the user, instead of by which animation was occurring at that time.
I just think it's a mistake in animation choice. And I think after playing for a few days, it'll become annoying, but these are only my thoughts on it, and they're just pure speculation. I can't prove I'm right, and no one can prove me wrong.
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I live to fight, and fight to live.
You are simply expecting too much. I am not thoroghly convinced AoC will be good, but it is an RPG genre game so look at what it has as an improvement from old fashioned turn based RPG combat
.
Grymm
MMO addict in recovery!
EQ,SWG preCU,L2,EQ2,GW,CoH/CoV,V:SOH,
Aion,AoC,TR,WAR,EVE,BP,RIFT,WoW and others... no more!
It's not that people are coming up with this hype out of thin air. We're reading what the devs are saying, and then seeing something slightly less, and being disappointed.
Not to say that what we've seen so far isn't great. It just isn't "as" great as the devs are making it out to be before they display it to us.
This is why I'm not holding my breath when it comes to GvG sieges. I just expect it to be a step below what they've been "saying" for what seems like years.
I hope I'm wrong, but I highly doubt it.
I say this because they also said that the combos were dynamic and that combo would be going on as you swing, not at the end of a series of swings, which is what we've both seen from that Stage Demo.
I immediately questioned how they were going to make a dynamic combo like they claimed, and then it was apparent it wasn't possible once I saw the stage demo.
I'm just a bit nervous how those animations (since they move your character forward) are going to look in PvP. They really need to just axe the lower part of the animations. How is the character going to strafe around someone "while swinging" if the animation has them stuck moving forward?
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I live to fight, and fight to live.
Maybe i am. You can say ive been "hyped". And i fully agree that AoC looks like a aprovement on alot of areas. One of the areas where we somewhat was promised a improvement was the combat system. And i can not say for sure before ive played the finished game; but the current footages ive seen of the combat system dosnt looks like a particular leap foreward compared to the old "click and spendvariousskills" system. And maybe it would be wise to wait with irl time combat on this scale ( 2-4 players fighting bunches of mobs) untill the technology supports it. So far ive learned from this thread that if you want irl time combat then you have to live with a flawed system, cause its simply not possible with current computers and cablespeed, to do it in a quality which would satisfy a big part of the customers.
I still hope thats its possible to tweak the system abit. Add some small "Ouch" animations, and get rid of the rollerblades....
I'm no fanboi. I have my fair share of doubts about AoC, but you can't base anything on those E3 videos. There were network overload if you read the articles about the event so thats why everything was "out of sync".
hopefully we will see that mass siege battle later this month. I will hold my breath until then.
If not then I will start to get really worried.
All good points on both sides I suppose. I don't mean to say I think the game will suck or anything, just that I see things that don't look like what I thought it was supposed to be, issues in other words. I will definitely check it out but if these things I saw in the videos persist in Live a big part of what I found interesting about AoC will have gone away as I was looking to it for an MMO with combat that isn't some remote control type result tabulating/generating typical MMO combat system. In other words, I want real time control of the character as I would in an FPS or something like Oblivion and not be remotely issuing the commands and watching animations to see outcomes (accurate or not).
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Combat looks to slow and I didn't see heads or arms coming off, just a lot of fake looking blood.
In watching the videos, I think it's far superior in graphics compared to the current WAR videos that are out (which were shockingly BAD IMO)
My only concern with what I see in AoC is that it's very "boyish," lots of testosterone flying through the blood spattered air. This will turn off a lot of female gamers such as myself.