I choose to believe the delay is confirmation of the issues I was talking about - it just didn't look right and now a 6 month delay confirms that it wasn't right.
Age of Conan is going to be crap at least, just because it's designed by Funcom. They totally fail at balancing classes, there were 4 absolutely useless classes PvE and PvP wise for 3 years in Anarchy Online, while 2 classes reigned supreme in PvP (It was a PvP game after max-level), after those 3 years they managed to fix 2 of the broken classes though, but so what, there are still 2 broken classes PvE and PvP wise.
I just feel bad for fellas who spent thousands on a gaming machine for this game, and not it got pushed back 6 months. So, u could've built the same PC for cheaper, or spend the same kind of money, and get more harware for it. Poor rich kids....
The thing I took away from watching the trailer was how bad the blood looked. One of the main attractions of this game is blood and guts and they looked really bad imo.
No need to see it in black and white. One does not have to be a troll or a hater to see some potential flaws in how a game looks to be performing. People can be both hopeful of a game and critical of what looks to be its potential shortcomings.
That's how I stand with all games. I've loved Conan lore since childhood and I will surely buy AoC... As I will surely buy WAR, PTBS, Aion and a few more yet - I'm not partial to any one unreleased game, because I usually get to buy and play several... So, I naturally want all those games to be very good, fun to play and breathtaking to look at - the better they are, the happier I am
I have to admit I would love some improvements to combat animations in AoC. Though, if it turns out what I've come to regard is "underwhelming animation" is actually "realistic animation" to the developers, well then, meh, I'll still try it... Though it might as well come to show me once more that realism and what I see as good gameplay don't always match
Basicly ive been a AoC Fanboi for while now. Was astoned by some of the enverioments and the ideas about combat, the rough universe and that the game pointed towards adult players. But... Watching some of the new gameplay trailers i just must admit; it just dont look like a game i feel like playing atm. ( http://media.pc.ign.com/media/743/743392/vids_1.html ) The combat totally lacks that "omphf" effect, it looks, in my humble opinion, like 2d sprites or dolls, who float around and hitting big holes in the air, while some stiff mobs are falling to the ground somewhere behind all the random swinging. You guys at Funcom need to focus alot more at the 1vs1 ( player vs mobs) "feel", like working at the collision between weapon and flesh. Its a realy cool idea that u just swing ur sword and hit stuff if theres something in its path..BUT, you need to make it actually look like the sword, mace, axe whatever actually peels the skin, collide with the felsh. Atm i think i would prefere the click and slash system instead of the current, Alpha version of AoC combat. Click and slash atlast makes me feel im actually hurting the mob. Anyways. I still looking foreward to se the finished version, and i realy do hope that theese new gameplay footage aint representive for the finished ingame combat:) With high Hopes.
Thats the feeling I was getting from watching the recent ingame vids, and this is coming from a former AOC fanboi as well (been a member of their boards since May of 05)..
Anyways I heard rumors that there beta testers have been telling them things along this nature and various other problems they have with the game. And now come to find out the game has been pushed back another 4-6 months... So perhaps there was something to those rumors. 0.o
On the bright side if there is something to it at least the AOC developers are listening.. Thats more then can be said for a few other MMORPG's in beta at this moment that will go nameless...
------------------------------ You see, every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with their surrounding environment, but you humans do not. You spread to an area, and you multiply, and you multiply, until every natural resource is consumed. The only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet.-Mr.Smith
I'd personally take a system that allows you to meaningfully block and have recoil/counterattack openings over one that has 50+ minor variations of the same attack move that all have the same effect just look a little different. At least in oblivion enemies react to getting hit or blocked. Conan? Its like throwing a bunch of mindless robots that feel no pain into a skating rink (slippy slidin all the way).
Whether I swing to the left or swing to the right, its still just the same old hokey pokey
As for the algorithm that decides whether an enemy is hit in Conan... has nothing to do with whether the weapon makes contact. Just a lie told to make people think the combat is more intriquite than it really is. If such a system were in place, it would be easy to implement blocking because the system to determine the contact point would already be in place.
What is really happening behind the scenes is very simple (so simple an intern could program it).. your avatar has a position coordinate and a directional line (the endpoint located at your position and a vector straight towards where you are facing), as does your enemy. If you swing your weapon, two conditions are checked:
1) The distance between your position coordinate and that of your enemy
2) The angle from the direction you are facing to that of the enemy
If the distance is within the weapon range, and the angle is within the 'cone' of affect, the enemy is hit.
Both equations are simple and anyone that isn't in grade school probably studied them at one point. It is painfully obvious this is what is taking place because there are countless AoC vids showing enemies being hit that your weapon never actually touched. Its a programming copout. Like most of AoC, its a system designed to trick the lesser minds into thinking there is complexity going on.
This concludes the lesson of why AoC's combat system is a hyped up version of math you could have done in high school.
At least in oblivion enemies react to getting hit or blocked. Conan? Its like throwing a bunch of mindless robots that feel no pain into a skating rink (slippy slidin all the way).
You'll note, it's like this in EVERY MMOG. There are very good, technical reasons why you don't have the same kind of reactive animations in singleplayer or small-scale multiplayer games. I won't go into them, as they have been discussed on several pages of this very thread.
I really don't get why people knock AoC for not having much interaction between weapon and target when you go to just about any other MMOG (including WAR,) and mob and player are 5-10' apart, swinging like mad and not only are their attacks not even trying to look like they are hitting. You get a nice little particle flash and floaty damage numbers. Mobs don't even move when hit. Almost every single MMOG is like this for melee combat. So why do you expect AoC to be any different?
You'r kidding right? Look at CoH/CoV all their enemies react to you blasting them, they are thrown in the air, they bend under the pain and it's a 3 years old game...
You'r kidding right? Look at CoH/CoV all their enemies react to you blasting them, they are thrown in the air, they bend under the pain and it's a 3 years old game...
I was actually looking forward to AoC until a few months back when i watched the video and realized it was all smoke and mirrors. The combat is slow and clunky, i cant imagine what it would be like in pvp!
Also just to set the record straight, AoC isn't the first to introduce this type of combat style. there are smaller budget games that have done this. the only one i can think of atm is http://www.metin2.us/ i played this one for a bit and it was cool, you could run into a pack of mobs and swing widly hitting a few a time. The animation is wayyy better than AoC even though its a small-budget-no-name-grindfest. the avatar didn't slide, and his sword actually made contact with the mobs, and the mobs actually respond to it pretty well.
Now my point is if a game like metin2 can pull it off, why is AoC struggling? My guess is they realized this and pushed it back till march to redo the physics.
Fion really. I'd just stop. Everything you've claimed and said has been countered to the point that you're just starting to sound like you've never played a game in your life, and that you have tunnel vision for AoC.
Can't you just admit, like Funcom recently has, that the combat system was flawed. Hopefully some of these flaws (since they didn't bother to say "exactly" what was flawed about it) include the foot slide, the constantly moving forward while attacking, the lack of reaction by anyone, the fact that your armor seems to bleed as much as a person, and various other things that people have pointed out.
People aren't complaining about these things because every other MMO has them, they're complaining about them because in this age of MMOs hardly any MMO has these flaws.
Go play LotRO and you'll notice there's negligible foot slide if any at all. The characters react to being hit as well. I'm sure the reaction thing is just because the game's still in beta-phase, but it's a worthwhile thing to point out.
The only thing I've seen in an AoC vid that was more realistic than any MMO I've seen was when a mob got rooted, and he actually reached down and pulled at his feet and looked like he was trying to break free.
That was an awesome touch and one that most developers wouldn't have thought of. They need to apply that kind of thing to all of their other animations during this next 6 months.
As an aside: I have been wondering something for the past few days. If the reason for the delay is to fix the combat system and they're claiming that fixing the combat system is going to take months, does this mean that we won't see Siege Combat at Leipzig? Or does it mean that the Siege Combat we will see will be similar to the leaked beta footage of old? Thoughts? Anyone?
--------------------------------------------- I live to fight, and fight to live.
There's way more important things to be fixed than combat animations if you listen their beta testers. Servers for instance. Had they not done this we would have another Vanguard in out hands in october. It was a good decision and it was the only right thing to do.
There's way more important things to be fixed than combat animations if you listen their beta testers. Servers for instance. Had they not done this we would have another Vanguard in out hands in october. It was a good decision and it was the only right thing to do.
They certainly failed to mention having any server problems in that letter to the community or any of the posts made by devs. (Unless I missed those)
Thanks for a tidbit of perhaps insider info. Or can you link to this information?
--------------------------------------------- I live to fight, and fight to live.
Thanks for a tidbit of perhaps insider info. Or can you link to this information?
No, I can't link it.
I understand. So all that "truth" talk about "We're honestly telling you everything that's wrong with the game and why it's delayed" is leaving a bit out about servers and stuff.
I see.... hmmmm
--------------------------------------------- I live to fight, and fight to live.
As an aside: I have been wondering something for the past few days. If the reason for the delay is to fix the combat system and they're claiming that fixing the combat system is going to take months, does this mean that we won't see Siege Combat at Leipzig? Or does it mean that the Siege Combat we will see will be similar to the leaked beta footage of old? Thoughts? Anyone?
I had wondered this same thing as soon as I had read the release was pushed back. I could have sworn one of the dev posts explaining their reason for the delay also mentioned that they were still going to show some good stuff at Leipzig., presumably the siege footage they had original planned.
As for what they end up showing.. we'll just have to wait and see of course. I won't take a stance at this point as to the quality of that footage. But if part of the reason for the delay (that they didn't mention) was lag/server issues, I would suspect it would have a major impact on what is shown. I was hoping for a large guild vrs guild size siege example but it might possibly be downgraded to a small handful players that would allow them to show the siege system without any problems cropping up.
Comments
I choose to believe the delay is confirmation of the issues I was talking about - it just didn't look right and now a 6 month delay confirms that it wasn't right.
--------------------------------
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Age of Conan is going to be crap at least, just because it's designed by Funcom. They totally fail at balancing classes, there were 4 absolutely useless classes PvE and PvP wise for 3 years in Anarchy Online, while 2 classes reigned supreme in PvP (It was a PvP game after max-level), after those 3 years they managed to fix 2 of the broken classes though, but so what, there are still 2 broken classes PvE and PvP wise.
Well - declaring it as crap is premature, even if the delay does confirm it has some issues.
--------------------------------
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Fair point taken
however.........the combat looked like it needs work.
I just feel bad for fellas who spent thousands on a gaming machine for this game, and not it got pushed back 6 months. So, u could've built the same PC for cheaper, or spend the same kind of money, and get more harware for it.
Poor rich kids....
Agree.
--------------------------------
Achiever 60.00%, Socializer 53.00%, Killer 47.00%, Explorer 40.00%
Intel Core i7 Quad, Intel X58 SLi, 6G Corsair XMS DDR3, Intel X-25 SSD, 3 WD Velociraptor SATA SuperTrak SAS EX8650 Array, OCZ 1250W PS, GTX 295, xFi, 32" 1080p LCD
The thing I took away from watching the trailer was how bad the blood looked. One of the main attractions of this game is blood and guts and they looked really bad imo.
No need to see it in black and white. One does not have to be a troll or a hater to see some potential flaws in how a game looks to be performing. People can be both hopeful of a game and critical of what looks to be its potential shortcomings.
That's how I stand with all games. I've loved Conan lore since childhood and I will surely buy AoC... As I will surely buy WAR, PTBS, Aion and a few more yet - I'm not partial to any one unreleased game, because I usually get to buy and play several... So, I naturally want all those games to be very good, fun to play and breathtaking to look at - the better they are, the happier I am
I have to admit I would love some improvements to combat animations in AoC. Though, if it turns out what I've come to regard is "underwhelming animation" is actually "realistic animation" to the developers, well then, meh, I'll still try it... Though it might as well come to show me once more that realism and what I see as good gameplay don't always match
Thats the feeling I was getting from watching the recent ingame vids, and this is coming from a former AOC fanboi as well (been a member of their boards since May of 05)..
Anyways I heard rumors that there beta testers have been telling them things along this nature and various other problems they have with the game. And now come to find out the game has been pushed back another 4-6 months... So perhaps there was something to those rumors. 0.o
On the bright side if there is something to it at least the AOC developers are listening.. Thats more then can be said for a few other MMORPG's in beta at this moment that will go nameless...
------------------------------
You see, every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with their surrounding environment, but you humans do not. You spread to an area, and you multiply, and you multiply, until every natural resource is consumed. The only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet.-Mr.Smith
I'd personally take a system that allows you to meaningfully block and have recoil/counterattack openings over one that has 50+ minor variations of the same attack move that all have the same effect just look a little different. At least in oblivion enemies react to getting hit or blocked. Conan? Its like throwing a bunch of mindless robots that feel no pain into a skating rink (slippy slidin all the way).
Whether I swing to the left or swing to the right, its still just the same old hokey pokey
As for the algorithm that decides whether an enemy is hit in Conan... has nothing to do with whether the weapon makes contact. Just a lie told to make people think the combat is more intriquite than it really is. If such a system were in place, it would be easy to implement blocking because the system to determine the contact point would already be in place.
What is really happening behind the scenes is very simple (so simple an intern could program it).. your avatar has a position coordinate and a directional line (the endpoint located at your position and a vector straight towards where you are facing), as does your enemy. If you swing your weapon, two conditions are checked:
1) The distance between your position coordinate and that of your enemy
2) The angle from the direction you are facing to that of the enemy
If the distance is within the weapon range, and the angle is within the 'cone' of affect, the enemy is hit.
Both equations are simple and anyone that isn't in grade school probably studied them at one point. It is painfully obvious this is what is taking place because there are countless AoC vids showing enemies being hit that your weapon never actually touched. Its a programming copout. Like most of AoC, its a system designed to trick the lesser minds into thinking there is complexity going on.
This concludes the lesson of why AoC's combat system is a hyped up version of math you could have done in high school.
You'll note, it's like this in EVERY MMOG. There are very good, technical reasons why you don't have the same kind of reactive animations in singleplayer or small-scale multiplayer games. I won't go into them, as they have been discussed on several pages of this very thread.
I really don't get why people knock AoC for not having much interaction between weapon and target when you go to just about any other MMOG (including WAR,) and mob and player are 5-10' apart, swinging like mad and not only are their attacks not even trying to look like they are hitting. You get a nice little particle flash and floaty damage numbers. Mobs don't even move when hit. Almost every single MMOG is like this for melee combat. So why do you expect AoC to be any different?
You'r kidding right? Look at CoH/CoV all their enemies react to you blasting them, they are thrown in the air, they bend under the pain and it's a 3 years old game...
Bulls eye!
I was actually looking forward to AoC until a few months back when i watched the video and realized it was all smoke and mirrors. The combat is slow and clunky, i cant imagine what it would be like in pvp!
Also just to set the record straight, AoC isn't the first to introduce this type of combat style. there are smaller budget games that have done this. the only one i can think of atm is http://www.metin2.us/ i played this one for a bit and it was cool, you could run into a pack of mobs and swing widly hitting a few a time. The animation is wayyy better than AoC even though its a small-budget-no-name-grindfest. the avatar didn't slide, and his sword actually made contact with the mobs, and the mobs actually respond to it pretty well.
Now my point is if a game like metin2 can pull it off, why is AoC struggling? My guess is they realized this and pushed it back till march to redo the physics.
Fion really. I'd just stop. Everything you've claimed and said has been countered to the point that you're just starting to sound like you've never played a game in your life, and that you have tunnel vision for AoC.
Can't you just admit, like Funcom recently has, that the combat system was flawed. Hopefully some of these flaws (since they didn't bother to say "exactly" what was flawed about it) include the foot slide, the constantly moving forward while attacking, the lack of reaction by anyone, the fact that your armor seems to bleed as much as a person, and various other things that people have pointed out.
People aren't complaining about these things because every other MMO has them, they're complaining about them because in this age of MMOs hardly any MMO has these flaws.
Go play LotRO and you'll notice there's negligible foot slide if any at all. The characters react to being hit as well. I'm sure the reaction thing is just because the game's still in beta-phase, but it's a worthwhile thing to point out.
The only thing I've seen in an AoC vid that was more realistic than any MMO I've seen was when a mob got rooted, and he actually reached down and pulled at his feet and looked like he was trying to break free.
That was an awesome touch and one that most developers wouldn't have thought of. They need to apply that kind of thing to all of their other animations during this next 6 months.
As an aside: I have been wondering something for the past few days. If the reason for the delay is to fix the combat system and they're claiming that fixing the combat system is going to take months, does this mean that we won't see Siege Combat at Leipzig? Or does it mean that the Siege Combat we will see will be similar to the leaked beta footage of old? Thoughts? Anyone?
---------------------------------------------
I live to fight, and fight to live.
There's way more important things to be fixed than combat animations if you listen their beta testers. Servers for instance. Had they not done this we would have another Vanguard in out hands in october. It was a good decision and it was the only right thing to do.
Thanks for a tidbit of perhaps insider info. Or can you link to this information?
---------------------------------------------
I live to fight, and fight to live.
No, I can't link it.
No, I can't link it.
I understand. So all that "truth" talk about "We're honestly telling you everything that's wrong with the game and why it's delayed" is leaving a bit out about servers and stuff.I see.... hmmmm
---------------------------------------------
I live to fight, and fight to live.
As for what they end up showing.. we'll just have to wait and see of course. I won't take a stance at this point as to the quality of that footage. But if part of the reason for the delay (that they didn't mention) was lag/server issues, I would suspect it would have a major impact on what is shown. I was hoping for a large guild vrs guild size siege example but it might possibly be downgraded to a small handful players that would allow them to show the siege system without any problems cropping up.