What are you here for then?, childish name calling and making irational accusations?
that was your assumption when you went off on a rant trying to prove me wrong.
I think theres only one person ranting and i dont think its me.
The reason I posted that article is to show you that there was a reason why Asp only had a chance to play the older build. You're still not getting it, I gave you a reason and you dismissed it by trying to somehow conjure this up into a conspiracy theory; he could not delay the trip mainly for business reasons so he only got to play the older build.
As I allready said I have allways presumed that this was a pre-aranged visit as i have stated in previous posts, the link you provided to the warcry dev update proves my opinion.
Even if you think its a conspiracy theory to ask why they only showed a one year old demo when they had time to preparefor the visit does not preclude me or others asking questions.
Remember what you asked me?
We can all see what i asked its in my post no need to ask condescending questions.
Here I will help you troll.
Theres that word again and another condescending remark.
Can you provide evidence for this? he does not say they asked him to delay the trip in the preview. THis is what you asked, you wanted evidance so I posted and gave you a link that proved my point and not yours.
I do not understand how a simple questions asking for you to provide the source of your information can be construed by you as me attempting to make a point that has been proved wroung.
YOU ARE BUSTED
I did not relise it was a criminal offence to talk about darkfall, remember saying something does not make it true try to demonstrate how somebodys views are wroung.
and yes you are a Troll.
Oh there we go again, once per post is not enough?
You dismissed his preview
Yes i did like just like others have for all the reasons provided.
and you found Asp to not be credible,
I never accused Asp of not bieng credible, only the information in the preview.
also you did not know who LOD was and the reason I mentioned them is because guilds that have been around for a long time do have a status in he community.
I do not see how having no prior knowledge of LOD or of the status of the community which i and many others are not part of has any effect on the views expressed about his preview.
Asking for evidance of financial support from me about the LOD trip makes you a Troll,
No it makes me someone who expects people to base there statements of fact on evidence not anecdotal storys or speculation. Adding the word troll to every sentance does not make you any more convincing.
and apparently this is what you are what do you want?
How about for you to stop calling me silly names, attacking me personaly, making irational accusations and generally bieng offensive.
You want me to post copies of checks? Silly silly boy,
No just any form of evidence to support your claim, i notice some more condecending and a little name calling nice touch.
like i said before your arguments in thread are Troll arguments you're here to bait people and not listen to what they are telling you.
How many times are you going to accuse me of only postintg to bait people, but then repond to my posts anyway?, or constantly acuse me of trolling but still reply to my posts?
I did not relise you or anyone else was in the posistion of authority to be able to tell me anything, i thought this was a forum for open debate.
Sad sad troll,
nice combination of your faveroute insult but with added condescension
why ask me for evidance I am not going to give it to you.
Do not present statments as fact if you are not willing to provide any evidence to back them.
You're not LOD as far as I know,
And why do you think that is importent?
and you're not associated with guilds that are close to LOD either so why bother.
I did not relise only people associated with guilds close to LOD had the right to express there concerns or opinions about darkfall
I don't have to prove anything to you,
You do if you want people to take your statements seriously.
you have no credibility you have ZERO do you understand?
SIR!, YES SIR!, i am a disgusting magot who has no right to question you, Asp or LOD or anyone associated with them.
Find something better to do then to bait people,
Will you also find something better to do then constantly repsond to people's posts you accuse of baiting?
or better yet sign up and create another account to troll with since the one that you are using was already exposed.
Could not resist one final time eh?, Are you seriously suggesting i made this account 2 years ago with that sole intention, seems highly unlikely . Much more likely you are constantly accusing me in an attempt to discredit me or avoid answering my questions.
Could these difficulty’s be related to the stability problems they have with there beta and that they have only been able to demonstrate the demo build to publishers that appears to only show basic gameplay but has non of the major features implemented?
Aventurine does not want the Publishers to come in and take control of the project, the Publishers want control and Aventurine wont give them that because it is they who have funded and worked on the project for close to 5 years now; no Publishing company has invested any money into the project. Aventurine needs a publisher for manufacture and distribution purposes, they have the capital to make the game what they don't want is people from the outside who are to be responsible for manufacturing and distribution to come in and take over the responsibility of making the game and having control over it.
The idea here is to get a Publisher who would be responsible for marketing, manufacturing and distribution and not development. This is the main problem that has to be resolved, the problem here is that the Publishers overall most of the time won't just accept a % of the BOX sales and it seems in this case they want more then $$$.
We will see what happeneds in the next 2 to 3 months.
Could these difficulty’s be related to the stability problems they have with there beta and that they have only been able to demonstrate the demo build to publishers that appears to only show basic gameplay but has non of the major features implemented?
Aventurine does not want the Publishers to come in and take control of the project, the Publishers want control and Aventurine wont give them that because it is they who have funded and worked on the project for close to 5 years now; no Publishing company has invested any money into the project. Aventurine needs a publisher for manufacture and distribution purposes, they have the capital to make the game what they don't want is people from the outside who are to be responsible for manufacturing and distribution to come in and take over the responsibility of making the game and having control over it. The idea here is to get a Publisher who would be responsible for marketing, manufacturing and distribution and not development. This is the main problem that has to be resolved, the problem here is that the Publishers overall most of the time won't just accept a % of the BOX sales and it seems in this case they want more then $$$. We will see what happeneds in the next 2 to 3 months.
Accurate, and well said. You will get flamed for being sensible articulate and intelligent unlike the OP who just seems to want to gripe for some reason...
________________________________________________________ Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
Accurate, and well said. You will get flamed for being sensible articulate and intelligent unlike the OP who just seems to want to gripe for some reason...
Thank you. Forget the troll, he's been busted already it's pretty apparent that he has not even read the article, it's the same troll but with a newly created account.
they decided to self publish so that is solved XD
Well technically but not entirely, they are developing the game and from what I understand that's under control. The problem isent making the game, the problem revolves around marketing, manufacturing and distribution...... remember not all game studios can do or have the capacity to do both this is why most often then not the people who develop/publish the game go into partnership with a larger publishing company so that their game can be marketed, manufactured and distributed.
Also keep in mind it takes $$$ to market, manufacture CD's and packaging and distribute the game hence a big % of the BOX sales goes to the people who are able to accomplish it. Will Aventurine be able to market, manufacture & package and distribute their product on their own..... that I don't know depends on how deep their pockets are because that takes a ton of money to do.
Negotiations will take time, obviously Aventurine won't give up control so what they will probably do is negotiate the % of BOX sales vs. what the Publishing company is offering in terms of marketing, manufacturing and distribution. If they can't get anyone to do it based around % of BOX sales they can still negotiate a paid contract in which Aventurine would pay for Marketing, Manufacturing and Distribution. If this is the case they would have to shell out at least $25 mil.
My opinion on this is, Aventurine will pay for Marketing Blitz, Manufacturing & Packaging and Distribution to one of the Major Publishing companies that can get this done and they will keep 100% of BOX sales. Reason for it and why do I think that? DF has been funded for 5 years so far + 2 years of pre-production development phase; recently they received $27 not sure if this is a loan or a transfer from their backers but either way you look at it that $27 million is in all probablility not going toward development but something else.
Am I 100% certain of this, of course not but when you look at whats been going on recently and you connect the dots with the $$$ and Publishing Negotiations it gives us an idea where we stand.
Originally posted by Questionable Contradiction? Perhaps but It doesnt have to be 100% stable to give a person a small preview. Exactly one of the points i was trying to make earlier, why not just show him the latest beta or any previous version of beta even if it has stability problems instead of the one year old demo? If it went through a problem which made it unstable enough to make it unplayable and they could fix it by monday than i see no contradiction. I personally still see at least a discrepancy if not a contradiction, in the latest warcry dev update he does not mention any problems or anything about stability issue's he simply states that the servers are down but will be back up on monday, and that Asp could of played the beta if he had postponed his visit. But when Asp arrives they say the reason is stability problems, seems like they are not disclosing everything. But then again he never said what caused it or why it was down. Just the fact that it was down which could very well have been technical problems with the server. Once again we don't know what caused the stability problems which could have been a bug when they update it or possibly some sort of server related problem. Also you assume that it isn't the server that is making it unstable which could be the problem. If the server is the problem why did they not simply tell Asp that instad of saying stability problems, and why did they not mention server problems when the latest dev journal gives the impression the servers are only down as part of the routine development process? They could have said "We are having stability problems with the server" Which then asp comes with stablility problems. There are way to many if's to even come close to trying to figure it all out.
From the latest warcry update
"If there's an interesting development it's that we've narrowed in on a specific beta date and we should be announcing it very soon, right after we make sure that a couple of conditions are met."
Could one of the conditions that need to be met be resolving the stability problems with the beta build that are severe enough to prevent the developers from thinking it was advantageous to show it to Asp or anyone else?
Well the game should be close to 100% stable when they launch it and if it was something small that they could fix in a few days as they say than it really isnt all that servere is it?
From Asp's preview
"Right now they are almost done with a new build that might be a candidate for beta. They seemed to indicate that they hoped for this build to reach stability by the end of October. While I didn’t get confirmation (not that I can reveal) that this could in fact be the beta version, I really got the feeling that this could be the case. Why do I believe this? The guys were talking with confidence that the game could be released in 2008 and, from what I’ve seen, I believe them."
Is it realistic for Asp to think that this build will be stabile enough by the end of October if the stability problems are severe enough to of prevented him seeing it or for anyone to of seen any version of the beta build for the last year?
If it was just a some sort of small problem(Which they said could be fixed in a few days) than it could overall be stable.
"Additionally, they talked about different publishers and difficulties in the whole process of getting a game published as if this was part of the hold up."
Could these difficulty’s be related to the stability problems they have with there beta and that they have only been able to demonstrate the demo build to publishers that appears to only show basic gameplay but has non of the major features implemented?
Of course that COULD be the problem but it COULD also be that they haven't a publisher that fills THEIR requirements.(which some people often forget about). Now your assuming that the demo didn't have these features just because a guy only got a small time slot to play it.
An awful lot of If's to be able to even come closely accurate to judging this.
Originally posted by howitzer1
I think we have a winner. Have you ever SEEN any of the major gameplay features in action? City sieges and dynamic destruction / building for example? I sure haven't..... AoC has already shown that in one siege movie for example working as intended...
Doesnt mean publishers haven't now does it? You make it sound like companies show everything to an investor/publisher that they do to the public which just isn't true. Look at this point , I don't care if you're a die hard fanboy or just a critic , it's pretty obvious to see that they are having problems somewhere otherwise they would of been in a closed public beta a long time ago AND had a publisher signed up. Whether you want to believe it or not.... it's just how it be.... If you wanted a half-way finished game with alot more problems than yes it would have been in closed beta long time ago. Some game's betas are really bad and thats exactly what your suggesting DF should have done. Look at roma victor their still treating them like beta testers after release and that is what your suggesting? Like most you forget that DF is a risk no matter how good gameplay is. "Fun" is not a major factor its "How much money is this going to make us". Remember publishers are businesses and most businesses don't like to take risks. I don't believe(Just like aventurine) that beta should be some half-assed bug fest game which for some reason you believe it is. In my personal opinion I don't think Darkfall will ever get a Publisher. Not only because it's probably not up to par in most publishers eyes for todays MMO market but also because in reality Darkfall wouldn't sell even remotely close to 30,000 copies in todays market which every publisher out there would consider to be a complete failure. I don't think DF will get a publisher either but for different reasons. Well its great that you don't think its up to par but how so? Publishers want 200,000 + copies sold and that just would never happen with DF so it's just not worth their time and money investment. Just like i said publishers want a 100% money making game and thats why publishers jump on other games and DF to them is a risk no matter how you spin it
well form what i understand they have a beta date they cant have 1 unless they have decidided to self publish or they got a publishers they just havent told us
well form what i understand they have a beta date they cant have 1 unless they have decidided to self publish or they got a publishers they just havent told us
If their going to do beta themselves than more than likely their going release themselves.
If their going to do beta themselves than more than likely their going release themselves.
There're goal was never to have another Publishing Company to do the beta for them, Aventurine is developing Darkfall and they are the ones who are going to do beta. Read my post that I made above about Manufacturing + packaging + Marketing and Distribution, they need a world wide Publisher to do these things because they are only a game studio.
Like I said there's only 2 options here, either they give a % of BOx sales to get these things done or they will have to pay the publishing company for Manufacturing and packaging of the game CD's, Marketing and distribution aspect. I do not believe that the $27 million that they recently got from their backers is for development; that kinda amount of cash is given before during the development stage and DF has been in the works for nearly 5 years. Why would their backers give them $27 mil just recently when they are in negotiations with a world wide publisher, put the two together and you get your answer.
That $27 mil is for the release, Marketing, Distribution and Manufacturing. What else could it be for, granted it's not stated but if you connect the dots between the loan during the negotiations then you pretty much get a clearer picture and an insight to see whats going on.
Asp mentioned that he can't reval what he knows, One of the developers posted about a month or so ago that they are still in negotiations and have been for months on end; he aslo mentioned that they do have a beta date but they are NOT in a SHAREING MOOD. How and what stage the negotiations are at I don't know, what has been negotiated and what specifics the Publishing company will take is not yet known.
If their going to do beta themselves than more than likely their going release themselves. There're goal was never to have another Publishing Company to do the beta for them, Aventurine is developing Darkfall and they are the ones who are going to do beta. Read my post that I made above about Manufacturing + packaging + Marketing and Distribution, they need a world wide Publisher to do these things because they are only a game studio. In most cases publishers usually do more than just market or package. They sometimes provide servers and things along those lines. Which means alot less work for the guys over at Aventurine to handle.
In most cases publishers usually do more than just market or package. They sometimes provide servers and things along those lines. Which means alot less work for the guys over at Aventurine to handle.
Of course but this is when the Main Publisher who is capable of Manufacturing, Marketing and Distributing is actually developing the game and is in control of it. In Darkfall this is not the case since we know Aventurine is the company that is developing, testing; they will be running the servers and the beta and not someone else.
This is about control and Aventurine has it , not some other gaming company and or Publisher. Their goal is to produce the game, they cant manufacture CD's and package them, spend time Marketing and then Distribute it across the world to the store shelfs. If Aventurine was a subsidiery of Vivendi, it would be Vivendi who would back them and pay for everyhting including the development of Darkfall meanwhile Vivendi at the same time would Market the game and when it was ready release it and distribute it.
Darkfall has backers and the money, but their backers are not another publishing company and we know this to be the case. So what's probable is that you will see another Publisher go into partnership with them for a % of BOX sales that they will be able to keep if they Market, Manufacture and Distribute the game.
Is beta delayed because of not finding a Publisher? THis is a possibility, but it's not because the Publisher is going to supply them servers but because the Publisher wants to be sure that once they invest a shitload of Money in Marketing, Manufacturing and Distribution that this will be a viable game and they will be able to get their money back from the % of BOX sales + profit. Look at it this way, they want to be sure before they sign a contract that their bottom line will be in the clear.
It's really about money and expectation, what's going to happened I dunno exactly but I do have an idea.
as long as they have the money i dont see a problem it may not be a wow killer game but it will at least have a full server it will proboly start out slow like eve did
as long as they have the money i dont see a problem it may not be a wow killer game but it will at least have a full server it will proboly start out slow like eve did
Considering that the game has beenin development for 4 1/2 years + 2 years preproduction phase without going bankrupt that is a good sign, especially when you have $27 mil being injected recently into the project.
3rd quarter of 2008 seems probable, one thing that I think people have a problem with is that the development time is taking too long. But I think overall the Developers wanted to get the community involved somewhat in the project, and get the opinions of people and it seems that influenced their decisions to further develop the game.
yea i think they are just bad about giving there info really ive talked to some mods about what happen before i started watching and i understnad why some people are upset but with a first time company you have to kinda just let it go the way its going to go
yea i think they are just bad about giving there info really ive talked to some mods about what happen before i started watching and i understnad why some people are upset but with a first time company you have to kinda just let it go the way its going to go
The Delay for the game was inevitable, games suffer delays; EVE took 6 years to make i think this was the longest. DF still has a year or so to go, granted 4 1/2 years close to 5 probably not sure which month of 2003 i think it was the early 1st quarter they started working on the game in Greece.
People just should wait and stop whinning, or go play something else instead of coming here and troll on DF boards.
The Delay for the game was inevitable, I fail to see how you can state that as fact, the developers have never fully explained the reasons for the constant delays or missed beta/release dates, so how can you say that with only the limited information available? games suffer delays; Yes most games do , but darkfall is notorious for its constant delays and extended development time. This is normaly the sign of significant problems and potentially result in cancellation or premature release's. EVE took 6 years to make i think this was the longest. Eve did not take 6 years to develop, the first 3 years where spent designing, marketing etc. a board game to generate revenue and finding investors (check if you dont believe its true as well as amusing), then 3 years where spent dedicated to developing eve online. Ironically they also had severe problems with thier publisher and after release had to buy back the distribution rights and self publish digitaly. DF still has a year or so to go, How can you state that with certanty considering the past history of this games development? granted 4 1/2 years close to 5 probably not sure which month of 2003 i think it was the early 1st quarter they started working on the game in Greece. Razorwax announced the beginning of the developemnt of darkfall in August 2001, what they achieved with only 5 members is anyones guess. Razorwax was integrated into Adventurine in october 2002 (5 years ago), Razorwax finshed moving to greece in december 2002 (almost 4 years 10 months ago) People just should wait and stop whinning, or go play something else instead of coming here and troll on DF boards. Just becuase people say things you dont agree with does not mean they are trolling or whining, but i agree with you i spend very little time following darkfall anymore and occupy my time playing other games. Perhapes you could follow your own advice?
why we dont beep or whine or say some just because its are opinion you dont see me over on aoc boards sayign the game will be ala;gfest and what not if you have issue with the way this company handles there info then just do something else until beta starts
I fail to see how you can state that as fact, the developers have never fully explained the reasons for the constant delays or missed beta/release dates, so how can you say that with only the limited information available?
There was never actually a beta date that was set in stone, in late 2004 there was anticipation for beta, but they delayed it and they did give reasons; do you know what the reason was? I know, because I read all the jurnals prior to that and afterwards. Simply put the reason they gave was that they had resources to continue the development of the game, and wanted to include a few of the extra features that would have been left out (Naval Combat, Racial Mounts, Resource points, Graphical enhancement so on and so forth, these features were never set in stone at that time, most people thought that they would have been left out and or put into an expansion).
Yes most games do , but darkfall is notorious for its constant delays and extended development time. This is normaly the sign of significant problems and potentially result in cancellation or premature release's.
Nahh really you think? Darkfall has been in development since when? A while and it's still being developed, they need money to do that indefinately and so far they have been able to push back dates and continue with development. Premature release? Are you serious? and where did you get the idea of bankruptcy? Darkfall seems to be well funded, considering you had 1 or 2 years pre-production phase + 4.5 years of actual development.
Eve did not take 6 years to develop, the first 3 years where spent designing, marketing etc. a board game to generate revenue and finding investors (check if you dont believe its true as well as amusing), then 3 years where spent dedicated to developing eve online.
A company can use that time in pre-production as well can't they? Of course they can, you can't have it both ways kiddo; on one had you're telling me that DF took a ton of time to develop and somehow that's detrimental to it because of bankruptcy and premature release, on another hand you give a pass to EVE for spending 6 years to make a game and finding funding.
Let me ask you which game is better off in terms of Funding? Is it EVE or DF? Because it seems to me you're not seeing Aventurine sucking off investors for more funding, if they need money they simply get it and there is no questions asked. DF got $27 mil recently from it's backers, does that look to you like a bankrupt game or a game that is going to be pushed out prematurely?
Ironically they also had severe problems with thier publisher and after release had to buy back the distribution rights and self publish digitaly.
EVE was not that great at release, they pushed it out too early but eventually got it right.
How can you state that with certanty considering the past history of this games development?
Read my first reply to your question on this post. $$$ Remember? They are well funded and wanted to continue instead of releasing the game without some of these extra features. It takes money to continue development and keep everyhting going not to mention pay 30+ developers, does that seem to you like a game that's being pushed out or going bankrupt?
Razorwax announced the beginning of the developemnt of darkfall in August 2001, what they achieved with only 5 members is anyones guess.
Razorwax was integrated into Adventurine in october 2002 (5 years ago), Razorwax finshed moving to greece in december 2002 (almost 4 years 10 months ago)
NO one knows what was done pre Aventurine, most of the stuff that I seen during that time were concept art and info on races. Mostly pre-production type stuff, 2003 was the year development began and by development I mean coding, engine, world building tools etc.
Just becuase people say things you dont agree with does not mean they are trolling or whining, but i agree with you i spend very little time following darkfall anymore and occupy my time playing other games. Perhapes you could follow your own advice?
I am a fan of DF, I don't come here like you to bash the game and post lies. Maybe instead of telling me to leave why don't you take a break from trolling.
" Aventurine does not want the Publishers to come in and take control of the project, the Publishers want control and Aventurine wont give them that because it is they who have funded and worked on the project for close to 5 years now; no Publishing company has invested any money into the project. Aventurine needs a publisher for manufacture and distribution purposes, they have the capital to make the game what they don't want is people from the outside who are to be responsible for manufacturing and distribution to come in and take over the responsibility of making the game and having control over it. "
Do you talk out of your behind much?? You just made all of this stuff up because you "THINK" it's true , not because it is true. Amazing....
"That $27 mil is for the release, Marketing, Distribution and Manufacturing. What else could it be for"
Here we go again with the 27 million. THEY NEVER GOT 27 million in cash. It was convertible bonds being offered up for sale. Go look up the definition of convertible bonds.
Here we go again with the 27 million. THEY NEVER GOT 27 million in cash. It was convertible bonds being offered up for sale. Go look up the definition of convertible bonds.
They sold 27 million dollars worth of convertble bonds. Which means that aventurine can pay the bond owner the principle + interest OR the bond holder could exchange his bonds for shares of the company.
I think your the one that should look it up..." is a type of bond that can be converted into shares of stock in the issuing company, usually at some pre-announced ratio."
Bond-In finance, a bond is a debtsecurity, in which the authorized issuer owes the holders a debt and is obliged to repay the principal and interest (the coupon) at a later date, termed maturity.(aka loan)
I fail to see how you can state that as fact, the developers have never fully explained the reasons for the constant delays or missed beta/release dates, so how can you say that with only the limited information available? There was never actually a beta date that was set in stone, in late 2004 there was anticipation for beta, but they delayed it and they did give reasons; do you know what the reason was? I know, because I read all the jurnals prior to that and afterwards. Simply put the reason they gave was that they had resources to continue the development of the game, and wanted to include a few of the extra features that would have been left out (Naval Combat, Racial Mounts, Resource points, Graphical enhancement so on and so forth, these features were never set in stone at that time, most people thought that they would have been left out and or put into an expansion). December 2002 beta anounced and sign ups started, after six months sign ups closed and beta withdrawn September 2005 signup for closed clan beta began, but beta scheduled Q4 2005 canceld Also consider the constant assurances by developers in dev journals and interviews giving the impression that beta was close or making comitments to vague dates that never materialized. Yes most games do , but darkfall is notorious for its constant delays and extended development time. This is normaly the sign of significant problems and potentially result in cancellation or premature release's. Nahh really you think? Darkfall has been in development since when? August 2001 or october 2002 depending on when you want to start counting A while and it's still being developed, they need money to do that indefinately and so far they have been able to push back dates and continue with development. Are you seriously suggesting that constantly failing to meet beta and release dates is only a good thing becuase it gives them more time to continue development? Premature release? Are you serious? Yes I'm serious when saying many games that suffer from exstended development times and missed beta and release dates have resulted in pre-mature release's or cancelations. Anyone with a general knowledge of the industry would not dispute this. and where did you get the idea of bankruptcy? reading comprehension, i never mentioned bankruptcy Darkfall seems to be well funded, lets hope so, but we cant be certain becuase they dont publicly anounce information about there financial situation like most reputable companys do. considering you had 1 or 2 years pre-production phase If your counting the time razorwax had 5 employes for roughly 1 1/2 years as preproduction, but we cant be sure what they achieved in that time. + 4.5 years of actual development. If you include the time before razorwax merged with adventurine its over 5 years, if you count from the merger and move to athens its closer to 5 years then 4 and 1/2
Eve did not take 6 years to develop, the first 3 years where spent designing, marketing etc. a board game to generate revenue and finding investors (check if you dont believe its true as well as amusing), then 3 years where spent dedicated to developing eve online. A company can use that time in pre-production as well can't they? Of course they can, Not if there developing and marketing a board game and finding financial support for the first 3 years of there company history before they start developing eve online. you can't have it both ways kiddo;on one had you're telling me that DF took a ton of time to developand somehow that's detrimental to it because of bankruptcy and premature release, I'm not telling you, its the commonly held perception that this game suffers from constantly missed beta and release dates, and has been in production for a long time. Which is based on the facts we can all see about this games development history. Anyone who has a general knowleged of the industry understands why this is not a good thing. on another hand you give a pass to EVE for spending 6 years to make a game and finding funding. The developers of Eve Online spent 3 years developing the game before release.
Let me ask you which game is better off in terms of Funding? Is it EVE or DF? Eve Online's financial situation was publicly announced during development, but DF has not officialy released any information so we cannot acuratly make comparisions. Because it seems to me you're not seeing Aventurine sucking off investors for more funding, Yes we cant see becuase they dont publicaly release information about there investors or any changes in there funding. if they need money they simply get it and there is no questions asked. In a fantasy world DF got $27 mil recently from it's backers, does that look to you like a bankrupt game or a game that is going to be pushed out prematurely? If DF has recieved 27 million dollars recently why did they not make a public anouncment showing the details and the names of the investors like most developers do?
Ironically they also had severe problems with thier publisher and after release had to buy back the distribution rights and self publish digitaly. EVE was not that great at release, they pushed it out too early but eventually got it right. Are you realy in a posistion to critisize another games release considering darkfall's history of failed release dates?
How can you state that with certanty considering the past history of this games development? Read my first reply to your question on this post. $$$ Remember? They are well funded and wanted to continue instead of releasing the game without some of these extra features. It takes money to continue development and keep everyhting going not to mention pay 30+ developers, does that seem to you like a game that's being pushed out or going bankrupt? We cannot be sure of there funding situation becuase no information is publicaly released about it.
Razorwax announced the beginning of the developemnt of darkfall in August 2001, what they achieved with only 5 members is anyones guess. Razorwax was integrated into Adventurine in october 2002 (5 years ago), Razorwax finshed moving to greece in december 2002 (almost 4 years 10 months ago) NO one knows what was done pre Aventurine, most of the stuff that I seen during that time were concept art and info on races. Mostly pre-production type stuff, Well we can look at razorwax's website from august 2001 when they announced the developement of darkfall and there early alpha information and make educated deductions.
2003 was the year development began and by development I mean coding, engine, world building tools etc. They announced the start of development of darkfall in august 2001 but merged with adventurine in october 2002 and finished moving in december 2002, we can only presume they where working full time on the production from there first anouncment.
Just becuase people say things you dont agree with does not mean they are trolling or whining, but i agree with you i spend very little time following darkfall anymore and occupy my time playing other games. Perhapes you could follow your own advice? I am a fan of DF, I don't come here like you to bash the game and post lies. Thats your opinion, im sure other people might disagree Maybe instead of telling me to leave why don't you take a break from trolling. I never told you to leave, i said you could follow your own advice
December 2002 beta anounced and sign ups started, after six months sign ups closed and beta withdrawn. September 2005 signup for closed clan beta began, but beta scheduled Q4 2005 canceldAlso consider the constant assurances by developers in dev journals and interviews giving the impression that beta was close or making comitments to vague dates that never materialized.
There was never a specific date for beta given, we never had one just general statements with no specifics.
Are you seriously suggesting that constantly failing to meet beta and release dates is only a good thing becuase it gives them more time to continue development?
There was never a specific date given, and yes continuing development of a game is a good thing reguardless of what you think.
lets hope so, but we cant be certain becuase they dont publicly anounce information about there financial situation like most reputable companys do.
Aventurine is not a publicly traded company, and just because they are private that does not mean that they are not reputable. And yes we can be sure, if you bothered to do a tad bit of research you would know they recently got an injection of $27 mil, to continue development. AVenturine does not have to publicly announce thier financial info, not to you not to me and not to the community, that's one of the perks of being a private firm.
Not if there developing and marketing a board game and finding financial support for the first 3 years of there company history before they start developing eve online.
You are wrong. EVE started development and was looking for a publisher to finish the game, they eventually got one and it still took 6 years.
I'm not telling you, its the commonly held perception that this game suffers from constantly missed beta and release dates, and has been in production for a long time. Which is based on the facts we can all see about this games development history.Anyone who has a general knowleged of the industry understands why this is not a good thing.
What facts, so far you have posted zero facts and you were wrong on allot of things.
If DF has recieved 27 million dollars recently why did they not make a public anouncment showing the details and the names of the investors like most developers do?
Companies don't do that, THEY DON'T.
You're just a troll, you can't just pick and choose which info you want to use as a fact and which you don't. They got $27 mil and they're is nothing a troll like you can do to try to spin it in a way to make it seem that it's somehow a bad thing because they did not mention it's backers.
I never told you to leave, i said you could follow your own advice
lol why don't you follow your own advice and stop posting.
December 2002 beta anounced and sign ups started, after six months sign ups closed and beta withdrawn. September 2005 signup for closed clan beta began, but beta scheduled Q4 2005 canceldAlso consider the constant assurances by developers in dev journals and interviews giving the impression that beta was close or making comitments to vague dates that never materialized. There was never a specific date for beta given, we never had one just general statements with no specifics. Yes publicly announcing sign ups for beta twice on there official website but not specificaly stating any dates and then canceling both times is very unprofessional
Are you seriously suggesting that constantly failing to meet beta and release dates is only a good thing becuase it gives them more time to continue development? There was never a specific date given, Yes and this reflects very poorly on them, especialy when they keep failing to meet there non-specific dates for beta and release. and yes continuing development of a game is a good thing reguardless of what you think. reading comprehension, i did not say continuing development is not a good thing, constantly missing officialy announced beta and release dates no matter how vague or un-specific is bad.
lets hope so, but we cant be certain becuase they dont publicly anounce information about there financial situation like most reputable companys do. Aventurine is not a publicly traded company, and just because they are private that does not mean that they are not reputable. reading comprehension, I did not say they where not reputable becuase they are privately owned. And yes we can be sure, if you bothered to do a tad bit of research you would know they recently got an injection of $27 mil, to continue development The developers have made no official announcment or confirmed any details about this , its only based on specualtion of limited information, please provide your research to prove otherwise. AVenturine does not have to publicly announce thier financial info,not to you not to me and not to the community, They do if they want to be apear profesional and credable like the majority of mmorpg developers by publicly announcing financial information. that's one of the perks of being a private firm. Yes one of the perks is not bieng forced to make public financial information that might reflect negatively on them.
I'm not telling you, its the commonly held perception that this game suffers from constantly missed beta and release dates, and has been in production for a long time. Which is based on the facts we can all see about this games development history.Anyone who has a general knowleged of the industry understands why this is not a good thing. What facts, Dates for razorwax announcing the beginning of the development darkfall and the size of there team, dates for there merger with aventurine, dates for razorwax's move to athens, dates for the two announcments for beta sign up and there cancelations, facts about the time darkfall has been in development, and facts about ccp's company history and EO's development phase all of which are generaly accepted facts that can be checked with a quick google search so far you have posted zero facts please work on your reading comprehension and you were wrong on allot of things. Please prove what things are wrong, most people do not accept others opinions unless they can prove they are based on facts. If DF has recieved 27 million dollars recently why did they not make a public anouncment showing the details and the names of the investors like most developers do? Companies don't do that, THEY DON'T. In a fantasy world, A quick google check of mmo developers shows the majority announce financial information publicaly about investors, publishers, budgets etc. , to not do so encourages speculation and appears unprofesional to the average person. You're just a troll, you can't just pick and choose which info you want to use as a fact and which you don't. Im not choosing, just looking at facts that can be proven . Speculation, anecdotal storys and wishfull thinking are not facts. They got $27 mil and they're is nothing a troll like you can do to try to spin it in a way to make it seem that it's somehow a bad thing because they did not mention it's backers. reading comprehension, i never said or implied it was a bad thing if they did recieve that money its obviously a good thing. Theres no need to spin it to make it look like a bad thing, the fact that its not been publicaly announced or officialy aknowleged in any way speaks for its self. The fact that people have to rely on anectdotale storys and speculation on limited information to feel secure about aventurines financial situation speaks for its self.
why are you even speclating its going beta and thats that you cant stop it so why keep saying crap that noone can prove
by now you should relize the devs dont cater to us and personaly id ont care about that ive seen proof that the game is coming and talked to other people about it they had hosting issues in 2006 so they decided to wait until this year and just ad in more of the features so JUST wait abit longer and you will see
i cant commit on the quality of the game i can only commit about its beign released and goign to beta XD
Comments
I am not here to debate you,
What are you here for then?, childish name calling and making irational accusations?
that was your assumption when you went off on a rant trying to prove me wrong.
I think theres only one person ranting and i dont think its me.
The reason I posted that article is to show you that there was a reason why Asp only had a chance to play the older build. You're still not getting it, I gave you a reason and you dismissed it by trying to somehow conjure this up into a conspiracy theory; he could not delay the trip mainly for business reasons so he only got to play the older build.
As I allready said I have allways presumed that this was a pre-aranged visit as i have stated in previous posts, the link you provided to the warcry dev update proves my opinion.
Even if you think its a conspiracy theory to ask why they only showed a one year old demo when they had time to prepare for the visit does not preclude me or others asking questions.
Remember what you asked me?
We can all see what i asked its in my post no need to ask condescending questions.
Here I will help you troll.
Theres that word again and another condescending remark.
Can you provide evidence for this? he does not say they asked him to delay the trip in the preview. THis is what you asked, you wanted evidance so I posted and gave you a link that proved my point and not yours.
I do not understand how a simple questions asking for you to provide the source of your information can be construed by you as me attempting to make a point that has been proved wroung.
YOU ARE BUSTED
I did not relise it was a criminal offence to talk about darkfall, remember saying something does not make it true try to demonstrate how somebodys views are wroung.
and yes you are a Troll.
Oh there we go again, once per post is not enough?
You dismissed his preview
Yes i did like just like others have for all the reasons provided.
and you found Asp to not be credible,
I never accused Asp of not bieng credible, only the information in the preview.
also you did not know who LOD was and the reason I mentioned them is because guilds that have been around for a long time do have a status in he community.
I do not see how having no prior knowledge of LOD or of the status of the community which i and many others are not part of has any effect on the views expressed about his preview.
Asking for evidance of financial support from me about the LOD trip makes you a Troll,
No it makes me someone who expects people to base there statements of fact on evidence not anecdotal storys or speculation. Adding the word troll to every sentance does not make you any more convincing.
and apparently this is what you are what do you want?
How about for you to stop calling me silly names, attacking me personaly, making irational accusations and generally bieng offensive.
You want me to post copies of checks? Silly silly boy,
No just any form of evidence to support your claim, i notice some more condecending and a little name calling nice touch.
like i said before your arguments in thread are Troll arguments you're here to bait people and not listen to what they are telling you.
How many times are you going to accuse me of only postintg to bait people, but then repond to my posts anyway?, or constantly acuse me of trolling but still reply to my posts?
I did not relise you or anyone else was in the posistion of authority to be able to tell me anything, i thought this was a forum for open debate.
Sad sad troll,
nice combination of your faveroute insult but with added condescension
why ask me for evidance I am not going to give it to you.
Do not present statments as fact if you are not willing to provide any evidence to back them.
You're not LOD as far as I know,
And why do you think that is importent?
and you're not associated with guilds that are close to LOD either so why bother.
I did not relise only people associated with guilds close to LOD had the right to express there concerns or opinions about darkfall
I don't have to prove anything to you,
You do if you want people to take your statements seriously.
you have no credibility you have ZERO do you understand?
SIR!, YES SIR!, i am a disgusting magot who has no right to question you, Asp or LOD or anyone associated with them.
Find something better to do then to bait people,
Will you also find something better to do then constantly repsond to people's posts you accuse of baiting?
or better yet sign up and create another account to troll with since the one that you are using was already exposed.
Could not resist one final time eh?, Are you seriously suggesting i made this account 2 years ago with that sole intention, seems highly unlikely . Much more likely you are constantly accusing me in an attempt to discredit me or avoid answering my questions.
Could these difficulty’s be related to the stability problems they have with there beta and that they have only been able to demonstrate the demo build to publishers that appears to only show basic gameplay but has non of the major features implemented?
Aventurine does not want the Publishers to come in and take control of the project, the Publishers want control and Aventurine wont give them that because it is they who have funded and worked on the project for close to 5 years now; no Publishing company has invested any money into the project. Aventurine needs a publisher for manufacture and distribution purposes, they have the capital to make the game what they don't want is people from the outside who are to be responsible for manufacturing and distribution to come in and take over the responsibility of making the game and having control over it.
The idea here is to get a Publisher who would be responsible for marketing, manufacturing and distribution and not development. This is the main problem that has to be resolved, the problem here is that the Publishers overall most of the time won't just accept a % of the BOX sales and it seems in this case they want more then $$$.
We will see what happeneds in the next 2 to 3 months.
Accurate, and well said. You will get flamed for being sensible articulate and intelligent unlike the OP who just seems to want to gripe for some reason...
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Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
they decided to self publish so that is solved XD
Accurate, and well said. You will get flamed for being sensible articulate and intelligent unlike the OP who just seems to want to gripe for some reason...
Thank you. Forget the troll, he's been busted already it's pretty apparent that he has not even read the article, it's the same troll but with a newly created account.
they decided to self publish so that is solved XD
Well technically but not entirely, they are developing the game and from what I understand that's under control. The problem isent making the game, the problem revolves around marketing, manufacturing and distribution...... remember not all game studios can do or have the capacity to do both this is why most often then not the people who develop/publish the game go into partnership with a larger publishing company so that their game can be marketed, manufactured and distributed.
Also keep in mind it takes $$$ to market, manufacture CD's and packaging and distribute the game hence a big % of the BOX sales goes to the people who are able to accomplish it. Will Aventurine be able to market, manufacture & package and distribute their product on their own..... that I don't know depends on how deep their pockets are because that takes a ton of money to do.
Negotiations will take time, obviously Aventurine won't give up control so what they will probably do is negotiate the % of BOX sales vs. what the Publishing company is offering in terms of marketing, manufacturing and distribution. If they can't get anyone to do it based around % of BOX sales they can still negotiate a paid contract in which Aventurine would pay for Marketing, Manufacturing and Distribution. If this is the case they would have to shell out at least $25 mil.
My opinion on this is, Aventurine will pay for Marketing Blitz, Manufacturing & Packaging and Distribution to one of the Major Publishing companies that can get this done and they will keep 100% of BOX sales. Reason for it and why do I think that? DF has been funded for 5 years so far + 2 years of pre-production development phase; recently they received $27 not sure if this is a loan or a transfer from their backers but either way you look at it that $27 million is in all probablility not going toward development but something else.
Am I 100% certain of this, of course not but when you look at whats been going on recently and you connect the dots with the $$$ and Publishing Negotiations it gives us an idea where we stand.
From the latest warcry update
"If there's an interesting development it's that we've narrowed in on a specific beta date and we should be announcing it very soon, right after we make sure that a couple of conditions are met."
Could one of the conditions that need to be met be resolving the stability problems with the beta build that are severe enough to prevent the developers from thinking it was advantageous to show it to Asp or anyone else?
Well the game should be close to 100% stable when they launch it and if it was something small that they could fix in a few days as they say than it really isnt all that servere is it?
From Asp's preview
"Right now they are almost done with a new build that might be a candidate for beta. They seemed to indicate that they hoped for this build to reach stability by the end of October. While I didn’t get confirmation (not that I can reveal) that this could in fact be the beta version, I really got the feeling that this could be the case. Why do I believe this? The guys were talking with confidence that the game could be released in 2008 and, from what I’ve seen, I believe them."
Is it realistic for Asp to think that this build will be stabile enough by the end of October if the stability problems are severe enough to of prevented him seeing it or for anyone to of seen any version of the beta build for the last year?
If it was just a some sort of small problem(Which they said could be fixed in a few days) than it could overall be stable.
"Additionally, they talked about different publishers and difficulties in the whole process of getting a game published as if this was part of the hold up."
Could these difficulty’s be related to the stability problems they have with there beta and that they have only been able to demonstrate the demo build to publishers that appears to only show basic gameplay but has non of the major features implemented?
Of course that COULD be the problem but it COULD also be that they haven't a publisher that fills THEIR requirements.(which some people often forget about). Now your assuming that the demo didn't have these features just because a guy only got a small time slot to play it.
An awful lot of If's to be able to even come closely accurate to judging this.
well form what i understand they have a beta date they cant have 1 unless they have decidided to self publish or they got a publishers they just havent told us
If their going to do beta themselves than more than likely their going release themselves.
If their going to do beta themselves than more than likely their going release themselves.
There're goal was never to have another Publishing Company to do the beta for them, Aventurine is developing Darkfall and they are the ones who are going to do beta. Read my post that I made above about Manufacturing + packaging + Marketing and Distribution, they need a world wide Publisher to do these things because they are only a game studio.
Like I said there's only 2 options here, either they give a % of BOx sales to get these things done or they will have to pay the publishing company for Manufacturing and packaging of the game CD's, Marketing and distribution aspect. I do not believe that the $27 million that they recently got from their backers is for development; that kinda amount of cash is given before during the development stage and DF has been in the works for nearly 5 years. Why would their backers give them $27 mil just recently when they are in negotiations with a world wide publisher, put the two together and you get your answer.
That $27 mil is for the release, Marketing, Distribution and Manufacturing. What else could it be for, granted it's not stated but if you connect the dots between the loan during the negotiations then you pretty much get a clearer picture and an insight to see whats going on.
Asp mentioned that he can't reval what he knows, One of the developers posted about a month or so ago that they are still in negotiations and have been for months on end; he aslo mentioned that they do have a beta date but they are NOT in a SHAREING MOOD. How and what stage the negotiations are at I don't know, what has been negotiated and what specifics the Publishing company will take is not yet known.
In most cases publishers usually do more than just market or package. They sometimes provide servers and things along those lines. Which means alot less work for the guys over at Aventurine to handle.
Of course but this is when the Main Publisher who is capable of Manufacturing, Marketing and Distributing is actually developing the game and is in control of it. In Darkfall this is not the case since we know Aventurine is the company that is developing, testing; they will be running the servers and the beta and not someone else.
This is about control and Aventurine has it , not some other gaming company and or Publisher. Their goal is to produce the game, they cant manufacture CD's and package them, spend time Marketing and then Distribute it across the world to the store shelfs. If Aventurine was a subsidiery of Vivendi, it would be Vivendi who would back them and pay for everyhting including the development of Darkfall meanwhile Vivendi at the same time would Market the game and when it was ready release it and distribute it.
Darkfall has backers and the money, but their backers are not another publishing company and we know this to be the case. So what's probable is that you will see another Publisher go into partnership with them for a % of BOX sales that they will be able to keep if they Market, Manufacture and Distribute the game.
Is beta delayed because of not finding a Publisher? THis is a possibility, but it's not because the Publisher is going to supply them servers but because the Publisher wants to be sure that once they invest a shitload of Money in Marketing, Manufacturing and Distribution that this will be a viable game and they will be able to get their money back from the % of BOX sales + profit. Look at it this way, they want to be sure before they sign a contract that their bottom line will be in the clear.
It's really about money and expectation, what's going to happened I dunno exactly but I do have an idea.
as long as they have the money i dont see a problem it may not be a wow killer game but it will at least have a full server it will proboly start out slow like eve did
as long as they have the money i dont see a problem it may not be a wow killer game but it will at least have a full server it will proboly start out slow like eve did
Considering that the game has been in development for 4 1/2 years + 2 years preproduction phase without going bankrupt that is a good sign, especially when you have $27 mil being injected recently into the project.
3rd quarter of 2008 seems probable, one thing that I think people have a problem with is that the development time is taking too long. But I think overall the Developers wanted to get the community involved somewhat in the project, and get the opinions of people and it seems that influenced their decisions to further develop the game.
yea i think they are just bad about giving there info really ive talked to some mods about what happen before i started watching and i understnad why some people are upset but with a first time company you have to kinda just let it go the way its going to go
yea i think they are just bad about giving there info really ive talked to some mods about what happen before i started watching and i understnad why some people are upset but with a first time company you have to kinda just let it go the way its going to go
The Delay for the game was inevitable, games suffer delays; EVE took 6 years to make i think this was the longest. DF still has a year or so to go, granted 4 1/2 years close to 5 probably not sure which month of 2003 i think it was the early 1st quarter they started working on the game in Greece.
People just should wait and stop whinning, or go play something else instead of coming here and troll on DF boards.
why we dont beep or whine or say some just because its are opinion you dont see me over on aoc boards sayign the game will be ala;gfest and what not if you have issue with the way this company handles there info then just do something else until beta starts
I fail to see how you can state that as fact, the developers have never fully explained the reasons for the constant delays or missed beta/release dates, so how can you say that with only the limited information available?
There was never actually a beta date that was set in stone, in late 2004 there was anticipation for beta, but they delayed it and they did give reasons; do you know what the reason was? I know, because I read all the jurnals prior to that and afterwards. Simply put the reason they gave was that they had resources to continue the development of the game, and wanted to include a few of the extra features that would have been left out (Naval Combat, Racial Mounts, Resource points, Graphical enhancement so on and so forth, these features were never set in stone at that time, most people thought that they would have been left out and or put into an expansion).
Yes most games do , but darkfall is notorious for its constant delays and extended development time. This is normaly the sign of significant problems and potentially result in cancellation or premature release's.
Nahh really you think? Darkfall has been in development since when? A while and it's still being developed, they need money to do that indefinately and so far they have been able to push back dates and continue with development. Premature release? Are you serious? and where did you get the idea of bankruptcy? Darkfall seems to be well funded, considering you had 1 or 2 years pre-production phase + 4.5 years of actual development.
Eve did not take 6 years to develop, the first 3 years where spent designing, marketing etc. a board game to generate revenue and finding investors (check if you dont believe its true as well as amusing), then 3 years where spent dedicated to developing eve online.
A company can use that time in pre-production as well can't they? Of course they can, you can't have it both ways kiddo; on one had you're telling me that DF took a ton of time to develop and somehow that's detrimental to it because of bankruptcy and premature release, on another hand you give a pass to EVE for spending 6 years to make a game and finding funding.
Let me ask you which game is better off in terms of Funding? Is it EVE or DF? Because it seems to me you're not seeing Aventurine sucking off investors for more funding, if they need money they simply get it and there is no questions asked. DF got $27 mil recently from it's backers, does that look to you like a bankrupt game or a game that is going to be pushed out prematurely?
Ironically they also had severe problems with thier publisher and after release had to buy back the distribution rights and self publish digitaly.
EVE was not that great at release, they pushed it out too early but eventually got it right.
How can you state that with certanty considering the past history of this games development?
Read my first reply to your question on this post. $$$ Remember? They are well funded and wanted to continue instead of releasing the game without some of these extra features. It takes money to continue development and keep everyhting going not to mention pay 30+ developers, does that seem to you like a game that's being pushed out or going bankrupt?
Razorwax announced the beginning of the developemnt of darkfall in August 2001, what they achieved with only 5 members is anyones guess.
Razorwax was integrated into Adventurine in october 2002 (5 years ago), Razorwax finshed moving to greece in december 2002 (almost 4 years 10 months ago)
NO one knows what was done pre Aventurine, most of the stuff that I seen during that time were concept art and info on races. Mostly pre-production type stuff, 2003 was the year development began and by development I mean coding, engine, world building tools etc.
Just becuase people say things you dont agree with does not mean they are trolling or whining, but i agree with you i spend very little time following darkfall anymore and occupy my time playing other games. Perhapes you could follow your own advice?
I am a fan of DF, I don't come here like you to bash the game and post lies. Maybe instead of telling me to leave why don't you take a break from trolling.
" Aventurine does not want the Publishers to come in and take control of the project, the Publishers want control and Aventurine wont give them that because it is they who have funded and worked on the project for close to 5 years now; no Publishing company has invested any money into the project. Aventurine needs a publisher for manufacture and distribution purposes, they have the capital to make the game what they don't want is people from the outside who are to be responsible for manufacturing and distribution to come in and take over the responsibility of making the game and having control over it. "
Do you talk out of your behind much?? You just made all of this stuff up because you "THINK" it's true , not because it is true. Amazing....
"That $27 mil is for the release, Marketing, Distribution and Manufacturing. What else could it be for"
Here we go again with the 27 million. THEY NEVER GOT 27 million in cash. It was convertible bonds being offered up for sale. Go look up the definition of convertible bonds.
They sold 27 million dollars worth of convertble bonds. Which means that aventurine can pay the bond owner the principle + interest OR the bond holder could exchange his bonds for shares of the company.
I think your the one that should look it up..." is a type of bond that can be converted into shares of stock in the issuing company, usually at some pre-announced ratio."
Bond-In finance, a bond is a debt security, in which the authorized issuer owes the holders a debt and is obliged to repay the principal and interest (the coupon) at a later date, termed maturity.(aka loan)
yea they did get that money XD
December 2002 beta anounced and sign ups started, after six months sign ups closed and beta withdrawn. September 2005 signup for closed clan beta began, but beta scheduled Q4 2005 canceldAlso consider the constant assurances by developers in dev journals and interviews giving the impression that beta was close or making comitments to vague dates that never materialized.
There was never a specific date for beta given, we never had one just general statements with no specifics.
Are you seriously suggesting that constantly failing to meet beta and release dates is only a good thing becuase it gives them more time to continue development?
There was never a specific date given, and yes continuing development of a game is a good thing reguardless of what you think.
lets hope so, but we cant be certain becuase they dont publicly anounce information about there financial situation like most reputable companys do.
Aventurine is not a publicly traded company, and just because they are private that does not mean that they are not reputable. And yes we can be sure, if you bothered to do a tad bit of research you would know they recently got an injection of $27 mil, to continue development. AVenturine does not have to publicly announce thier financial info, not to you not to me and not to the community, that's one of the perks of being a private firm.
Not if there developing and marketing a board game and finding financial support for the first 3 years of there company history before they start developing eve online.
You are wrong. EVE started development and was looking for a publisher to finish the game, they eventually got one and it still took 6 years.
I'm not telling you, its the commonly held perception that this game suffers from constantly missed beta and release dates, and has been in production for a long time. Which is based on the facts we can all see about this games development history.Anyone who has a general knowleged of the industry understands why this is not a good thing.
What facts, so far you have posted zero facts and you were wrong on allot of things.
If DF has recieved 27 million dollars recently why did they not make a public anouncment showing the details and the names of the investors like most developers do?
Companies don't do that, THEY DON'T.
You're just a troll, you can't just pick and choose which info you want to use as a fact and which you don't. They got $27 mil and they're is nothing a troll like you can do to try to spin it in a way to make it seem that it's somehow a bad thing because they did not mention it's backers.
I never told you to leave, i said you could follow your own advice
lol why don't you follow your own advice and stop posting.
why are you even speclating its going beta and thats that you cant stop it so why keep saying crap that noone can prove
by now you should relize the devs dont cater to us and personaly id ont care about that ive seen proof that the game is coming and talked to other people about it they had hosting issues in 2006 so they decided to wait until this year and just ad in more of the features so JUST wait abit longer and you will see
i cant commit on the quality of the game i can only commit about its beign released and goign to beta XD