At the risk of fragmenting the various discussions in this thread a bit more, I just had to comment on your concept of supporting original ideas. I think it would be just about insane not to encourage unique ideas (at least in principle). There is no shortage of people commenting on the stale repackaged games that have been paraded out as companies have realized there is money to be made in this market space. That said, unique ideas are sometimes mislabeled as such. While I am not as versed in the history of Vanguard as many might be, the evolution of discussion on that game seems to boil down to unique ideas that didn't materialize as such. From what I understand, some of the game was in fact unique, but the implementation was subpar for any number of reasons. With that in mind, I can certainly understand the viewpoint that expresses concern over the likelihood that another game, presenting itself as having unique ideas, might not materialize or may not materialize in such a way as to be a positive entry into the market.
In the cases where unique ideas do not live up to their presumed potential, the actual launch and life of the game may do more to harm further development in the evolution of online gaming as unique ideas will have their image as a "risk factor" reinforced. So, with the mindset, I can see that early constructive criticism can be extremely beneficial to the developers and the final product. When something appears to be failing in delivering the unique features in a solid implementation, the red flags should go up and people should take notice. I suppose, it's my opinion that a fan of something should not just be an unquestioning fan. A fan should ask/answer questions and participate in the community as such to help contribute to a positive end product. This might mean asking unpopular questions, but that's just as important as supportively answering other people's questions.
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers. Do something wrong, no one forgets" -from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
I personally have absolutely no problem with people who criticize games, I do it myself, if I think a game is a load of crap I will say it's crap and I will give the reasons I think it is, but what I can't stand is people who do it when they've been repeatedly proven wrong, are making stuff up, or are just clearly out to cause general trouble for the game for whatever reason.
Sure, it may not live up to some of it's promises ( which I doubt now that there's been such silence from them and a very large review from asp ) but one things for sure, the company and game itself as it is, is something that is worth supporting, the company is for once an independent company is trying to do something original and the game concept itself is original, if a game like this gets out then it is likely to attract a lot more players to the MMORPG market and it will also give those clone games a good kick up the backside for trying to rip people off.
Quoting people doesn't make you clever, in fact, it makes you all the more stupid for not bothering to read the quotes you post in the first place.
I personally have absolutely no problem with people who criticize games, I do it myself, if I think a game is a load of crap I will say it's crap and I will give the reasons I think it is, How hypocritical its ok for you to be critical about any game you choose, but what I can't stand is people who do it when they've been repeatedly proven wrong, are making stuff up, or are just clearly out to cause general trouble for the game for whatever reason. But if other people are being critical about Darkfall they are wrong, making stuff up or "vaporware trolls" or they get blocked like me i suppose. Sure, it may not live up to some of it's promises ( which I doubt now that there's been such silence from them and a very large review from asp ) How can you be so sure when Asp only mentioned being shown basic gameplay we have allready seen in the video from feb 2006, but did not mention a single major feature? How can you seriously suggest silence from the developers as only being indicative of something posistive considering the past history of this games developement? but one things for sure, the company and game itself as it is, is something that is worth supporting, the company is for once an independent company is trying to do something original and the game concept itself is original, if a game like this gets out then it is likely to attract a lot more players to the MMORPG market and it will also give those clone games a good kick up the backside for trying to rip people off. Their are many small independent developers working on new and innovative mmo's with unique and interesting concepts, many of them will probably fail and never release or even reach beta, we as a community have the duty to support only those developers that will provide evidence beyond reasonable doubt they are producing quality products that they will deliver with the minimum of delay's. Arguing that we should support the developers of darkfall purely because they are attempting to be original is not justification enough to blindly support them , they have to provide evidence to justify that support. This game will never attract alot more players to the MMORPG market that shows your naivety or desperation to make your position valid, darkfall will only appeal to a small niece like all previous PvP based games, it will never appeal to the majority of first time mmo players because of reasons obvious to anyone with a general knowledge of the industry.
and oyu control mmorpgers minds now ok have fun with that 1
we dont know how many people willc ome form what i heard theres ALOT of people in wow waiting and stuff like i said it will probly start out like eve it may not break 1 million subs but there will be enough people playing who knows we have to wait and see
0k21, At the risk of fragmenting the various discussions in this thread a bit more, I just had to comment on your concept of supporting original ideas. I think it would be just about insane not to encourage unique ideas (at least in principle). There is no shortage of people commenting on the stale repackaged games that have been paraded out as companies have realized there is money to be made in this market space. That said, unique ideas are sometimes mislabeled as such. While I am not as versed in the history of Vanguard as many might be, the evolution of discussion on that game seems to boil down to unique ideas that didn't materialize as such. From what I understand, some of the game was in fact unique, but the implementation was subpar for any number of reasons. With that in mind, I can certainly understand the viewpoint that expresses concern over the likelihood that another game, presenting itself as having unique ideas, might not materialize or may not materialize in such a way as to be a positive entry into the market. You example of vanguard demonstrates how a developer can promise innovation but in reality deliver something much more conventional is a possibility with dark fall no matter how impressive the FaQ on the website seems. Darkfall could still have grinding for skill experience, some form of NPC faction or Crafting materials and currency that could become tedious. A lot of the impressive features for example city building and siege’ing might not be implemented satisfactorily and may not be as fun or functional as we would all hope. We may find that due to technical reasons huge epic fights are restricted by constants problems like in many other games. Its possible that decisions about core game dynamics do not make the game appealing at release to a significant proportion of people for example the amount of time it takes to achieve certain tasks, or the games emphasis on guilds who might dominate. Or simply the game might not cater to casual players because of the advantages not available to them, we really cannot tell until beta or even after release to not consider any of these few examples shows wishful thinking and ignorance of all the examples from other mmo’s already released. Vanguard also shows how developers can promise to emulate a general game design concept which I believe in vanguards case was Ever Quest 1 but in reality after release the majority of the player base decided Ever Quest 1 game play was not as good as they had remembered it, and it was not appealing to the contemporary market. A similar thing is possible with many supporters of Dark fall hoping it emulates UO (myself included) which could still result in a similar situation of limited contemporary market appeal and disaffection when we compare are cherished memory’s of UO and are hopes and dreams with the reality of dark fall when we play it.
In the cases where unique ideas do not live up to their presumed potential, the actual launch and life of the game may do more to harm further development in the evolution of online gaming as unique ideas will have their image as a "risk factor" reinforced. So, with the mindset, I can see that early constructive criticism can be extremely beneficial to the developers and the final product. When something appears to be failing in delivering the unique features in a solid implementation, the red flags should go up and people should take notice. I suppose, it's my opinion that a fan of something should not just be an unquestioning fan. A fan should ask/answer questions and participate in the community as such to help contribute to a positive end product. This might mean asking unpopular questions, but that's just as important as supportively answering other people's questions. I also share you concerns about the risks you highlight, dark fall is the Holy Grail of Sandbox PvP even though this game has a considerably large base of detractors for various reasons already if it should fail it would be devastating for anyone who wants to see similar games developed in the foreseeable future. This is the only chance we have and I refuse to join the cheer leaders blindly attacking anyone who’s critical when I personally see the developers making so many mistakes that reflect detrimentally on them. I totally agree with you saying supporters should criticize and ask questions and interact with the developers to provide feedback, but after a few years of doing so on the official forums i decided to stop untill they started demonstrating they can deliver on there promises. Even if the developers continue to act as they have previously, rabidly attacking anyone who asks questions or makes suggestions just enforces the negative reputation this game and its supporters have within the majority of the potential player base.
and oyu control mmorpgers minds now ok have fun with that 1 we dont know how many people willc ome No we dont know exactly but we can make informed speculation using examples from other PvP based games that have released in the past like Shadowbane, Eve Online, Neocron, Face of Mankind, UO etc. form what i heard theres ALOT of people in wow waiting Thats not attracting new players to the mmo market as 0k21 was suggesting. If your trying to imply that a significant proportion of WOW's playerbase is waiting to move to darkfall im not sure that many people would agree with you without more conclusive evidence then what you may of heard. and stuff like i said it will probly start out like eve it may not break 1 million subs but there will be enough people playing who knows we have to wait and see I hope you are right, if the darkfall developers can achieve a comparative level of quality and success as CCP has then we will all be playing darkfall and not arguing on the forums about it.
Someone on the official darkfall forums posted a link to this websitehttp://www.tascha.ch/ by an artist named Natascha Roeoesli who aparantly moved recently to start working on darkfall, she has made comments about the development of darkfall,its community and the recent preview by Asp.
I have never been to her website before , know nothing about her personaly except for quickly reading the "about" section of her website and have no personal grudge against her for any reason.
I only wanted to comment on her remarks about the darkfall comunity and the recent preview by Asp becuase i did not think some of her remarks where proffesional and showed a lack of apprecation of the reality of the games general reputation within the MMO community.
It seems that following games and trash talking on forums is THE new way of spending time.
Its not new to many people who have spent years following darkfall its all we can do while we wait.
I never really understood the urge of following a game in development,
Alot of people have the urge to follow darkfall because it promises to offer many things that are not currently avaialble in any other mmo released or in development.
hanging on every word they devs say or look at screenshots which are most of the time faked anyway.
People following Darkfall behave like this becuase of the lack of developer interaction and relatively sparton amount of screen shots (and videos) released over the years which encourages speculation by the community.
Making the accusation that most screen shots released by developers are faked seems peculiar, i do hope you are not also refering to any of the screen shots released by the darkfall developers.
Big companies even have their own video and screenshot departments and most people can’t tell a modeled/placed 3D screencapture or video from “supposedly” in game footage.
Are you trying to make excuses for darkfall's lack of discloser by implying that "Big companies" developing other MMO's that do release relatively large amounts of screenshots and videos can be dismised as evidence of there progress becuase they can be faked or manipulated?
I also, until recently, not really cared about gaming communities of not yet released games (even though I do of course follow the DF Forums- I seem to enjoy taking a daily dose of self inflicting mental pain).
Perhaps the explanation for the lackluster public relations we have experienced over the years following darkfall can be explained if the majority of the developers share your disregard for pre-release game communities (including darkfalls it would seem).
Even though I do not mind the trash talking and the e-peen comparison on the forums but what I DO mind is fans trashing eachothers games or talking out of their butts.
Perhapes if the developers of darkfall had been more forthcoming about the reasons for the constant delays and canceld beta's and provided more information about the state of development the community forums would be alot more constructive and pleasent.
Not full of weary and disgruntled people hopeing and waiting that something will happen "soon" as we have constantly been told for years and have less confrontation between true believers and people who are sceptical becuase of there past experiences concerning darkfall.
Also people claiming that the recent visit of a gamer to our offices in Athens was a Hoax, bashing the guild and the guy who actually visited us, is just outright idiotic and just…well plain…kinda at a loss of words.
What about the people asking simple and rational questions like
why do only members of guilds get access to play test and do previews?
Why did the preview not contain any new information?
Why was the majority of the preview not directly about his gameplay experience?
Why did Asp play a one year old demonstration build that we have allready seen in the 2006 video?
Why did he not take any pictures and why where no screen shots or videos released with the preview?
Why did he only mention basic gameplay from his demo experience and non of the major features?
Why did he not provide definate beta date or a release date and only vague assurances?
Why did he Q and A only with his guild members and not with members of the community?
I do not think you can dissmiss everyone bieng critical about Asp's preview by attempting to lump us all together as idiotic basher's crying hoax.
I also take a bit of offense in the fact that people claim DF is a false project and that there is actually no developer team (as a matter of fact I think that is quite hilarious). I must be pretty delusional to go to work everyday on a non existing project.
Im sory people hurt your feelings when they expect the developers of Darkfall to start demonstrating something to justify all the claims they have been making for so many years.
Im glad you find many peoples frustration and disillusionment about the lack of information concerning Darkfall and its developers hilarious but im afraid alot of us do not find it amusing.
Your personall assurances about darkfalls development do not answer all the sensible questions concerning the development of darkfall asked becuase of the serious lack of information thats been released.
Or actually no wait, I just moved from Switzerland, leaving my family, friends, cats..my whole life behind..just to join a social project and a hoax to get monies.
You obviously feel happy to state that everything is fine with the development of darkfall, perhapes the developers could release information sufficient to demonstrate to the majority of people that your statements are justified.
Oh wait, we actually don’t really get any money from people yet..oh shucks..something in our masterplan is actually not so well thought out like we hoped..
I presume you are bieng paid for your work, and i presume the developers of darkfall expect to get some financial return for there workby releasing darkfall so perhapes you should be acting more professionaly, becuase alot of people think your actions are detrimentaly effecting the potential finananical succes of darkfall.
Just becuase you or any of the developers have not recieved any money from customers does not mean you have not recieved investments to pay the wages of the developers for years
You feeling that the developers do not have to demonstrate progress with the project or that they do not owe the followers of darkfall anything becuase no money has been recieved yet sounds very unprofessional
Someone on the official darkfall forums posted a link to this websitehttp://www.tascha.ch/ by an artist named Natascha Roeoesli who aparantly moved recently to start working on darkfall, she has made comments about the development of darkfall,its community and the recent preview by Asp.
I have never been to her website before , know nothing about her personaly except for quickly reading the "about" section of her website and have no personal grudge against her for any reason.
I only wanted to comment on her remarks about the darkfall comunity and the recent preview by Asp becuase i did not think some of her remarks where proffesional and showed a lack of apprecation of the reality of the games general reputation within the MMO community.
Excuse me, but you're the one who started this thread trolling our DF forums here at MMORPG trying to convince us that Asp's review is fake. Now you have a problem with one of their Artists who posted an opinion piece about trolls like you (You're not the only one), although I don't think this was specificly at you but the accusations do fit.
People following Darkfall behave like this becuase of the lack of developer interaction and relatively sparton amount of screen shots (and videos) released over the years which encourages speculation by the community.
Polarization, you got more then enough info out there including screens and vids that are in pre-beta stage. No other company releases so much info before beta.
Making the accusation that most screen shots released by developers are faked seems peculiar, i do hope you are not also refering to any of the screen shots released by the darkfall developers.
Excuse me weret you the one accusing of DF of being Fake? Implying that all the things that they released including screens and vids and all the info was fake because it was vaporwere to you. SO yu're ok with big corporations not releasing any info, but you have a problem when the developers of DF release things to the community prior to beta.
Perhaps the explanation for the lackluster public relations we have experienced over the years following darkfall can be explained if the majority of the developers share your disregard for pre-release game communities (including darkfalls it would seem).
Other developers should be more open about their games just like the developers of DF have been. ANd they have been open about this since the beginning, they did not keep a blackout for 4 years just like the rest of these game studios do; all we get from other developers is basically ALL HYPE brushed up screens, and a few tad bits of eye candy.
While from DF we got Alpha vids and screenshots that were not brushed up, and when you look at the progression of the game you see the changes that have been made.
What about the people asking simple and rational questions like
why do only members of guilds get access to play test and do previews?
Why did the preview not contain any new information?
Why was the majority of the preview not directly about his gameplay experience?
Why did Asp play a one year old demonstration build that we have allready seen in the 2006 video?
Why did he not take any pictures and why where no screen shots or videos released with the preview?
Why did he only mention basic gameplay from his demo experience and non of the major features?
Why did he not provide definate beta date or a release date and only vague assurances?
Why did he Q and A only with his guild members and not with members of the community?
I do not think you can dissmiss everyone bieng critical about Asp's preview by attempting to lump us all together as idiotic basher's crying hoax.
The problem is not the review, LOD or Asp, it's you dude; it's people like you who troll these forums and make up stuff to go along with your view of reality.
You feeling that the developers do not have to demonstrate progress with the project or that they do not owe the followers of darkfall anything becuase no money has been recieved yet sounds very unprofessional
She's not going to come here and debate you mainly because for the most part you took everyhting she said and you twisted it to make yourself and people like you who are most likely paid shills and trolls look innocent. But in reality people like you are not innocent, and I am glad one of the artists from DF posted an opinion piece about certain individuals who are acting unprofessionaly on forums such as these lieying and posting disinformation.
LIke I said this isent anyhting new, ever heard of Thrones of Chaos, people posting about Aventurine not existing, DF not being a real game, Aventurine not owning their trade-mark. DF Developers trying to sell DF for 1 mil, all screens beign fake, all vids being fake, visits to DF offices being a hoax. Ohh and there was an AOC dev that made fun of DF on AOC forums, FUNCOM had to apologize for it although I think this was more of a slip up rather then an apology.
hang on every word they devs say or look at screenshots which are most of thtime faked anyway.
People following Darkfall behave like this becuase of the lack of developer interaction and relatively sparton amount of screen shots (and videos) released over the years which encourages speculation by the community.
Making the accusation that most screen shots released by developers are faked seems peculiar, i do hope you are not also refering to any of the screen shots released by the darkfall developers.
She must be talking about the cinematic videos that some companies are selling to naive gamers as actual in game video!
Big companies even have their own video and screenshot departments and most people can’t tell a modeled/placed 3D screencapture or video from “supposedly” in game footage.
Are you trying to make excuses for darkfall's lack of discloser by implying that "Big companies" developing other MMO's that do release relatively large amounts of screenshots and videos can be dismised as evidence of there progress becuase they can be faked or manipulated?
You said so!
lso, until recently, not really cared about gaming communities of not yet released games (even though I do of course follow the DF Forums- I seem to enjoy taking a daily dose of self inflicting mental pain).
Perhaps the explanation for the lackluster public relations we have experienced over the years following darkfall can be explained if the majority of the developers share your disregard for pre-release game communities (including darkfalls it would seem).
They make PR for gamers not for trolls! If you don’t want to see the information there is no miracle that will allow you to see it.. There is a mist of hate that is blocking your vision
Even though I do not mind the trash talking and the e-peen comparison on the forums but what I DO mind is fans trashing eachothers games or talking out of their butts.
Perhapes if the developers of darkfall had been more forthcoming about the reasons for the constant delays and canceld beta's and provided more information about the state of development the community forums would be alot more constructive and pleasent.
Not full of weary and disgruntled people hopeing and waiting that something will happen "soon" as we have constantly been told for years and have less confrontation between true believers and people who are sceptical becuase of there past experiences concerning darkfall.
They owe you nothing!! They are making a game that it could make them rich and since they are developing the game with their own money they follow their own timetable. If you don’t like the way they treat you then just stop following the game.. For them the importance of your existence is valued with a big 0(you are one person in a 20million people market). Make your self a favor and stop following this game
Also people claiming that the recent visit of a gamer to our offices in Athens was a Hoax, bashing the guild and the guy who actually visited us, is just outright idiotic and just…well plain…kinda at a loss of words.
What about the people asking simple and rational questions like
why do only members of guilds get access to play test and do previews?
Because they matter to them. The devs are gamers and they respect the opinion of other gamers!
Why did the preview not contain any new information?
Because there is only one truth-that this game rocks. Let me remind you that the featurelist of this game is so advanced that’s miles away from anything else in the market. What else do you need?. Personally im really happy that someone went there to confirm that this featurelist checks.
Why was the majority of the preview not directly about his gameplay experience?
Did you read the report?
Why did Asp play a one year old demonstration build that we have allready seen in the 2006 video?
Because they are confident enough to know that even that old build is so impressive that it could impress an experienced gamer. It’s funny that you mentioning that video. It’s like you admitting that one year ago when you first seen that video you were convinced you about the quality of this game. This video checks with what ASP has seen and I keep that he was really impressed with the graphics of that old demo. Now imagine how good this game is after a year of development.
Why did he not take any pictures and why where no screen shots or videos released with the preview?
It’s not a birthday party; it’s a review of a game! There are plenty of screenshots of the game and if you want I can post some links for you.
Why did he only mention basic gameplay from his demo experience and non of the major features?
He did mention most of the differentiate features of the game were there (Full loot, Boats, FFA PvP, mounts, city building) but he was more impressed by the game play of DF. What’s your problem with that?
Why did he not provide definate beta date or a release date and only vague assurances?
NDA…
Why did he Q and A only with his guild members and not with members of the community?
Because they matter to him and this community doesn’t... For LoD the importance of your existence is valued with a 0!
I do not think you can dissmiss everyone bieng critical about Asp's preview by attempting to lump us all together as idiotic basher's crying hoax.
You really love Darkfall and adventurine and you want this game to succeed but….I
also take a bit of offense in the fact that people claim DF is a false project and that there is actually no developer team (as a matter of fact I think that is quite hilarious). I must be pretty delusional to go to work everyday on a non existing project.
Im sory people hurt your feelings when they expect the developers of Darkfall to start demonstrating something to justify all the claims they have been making for so many years.
She is ignoring your existence don’t feel sorry…
Im glad you find many peoples frustration and disillusionment about the lack of information concerning Darkfall and its developers hilarious but im afraid alot of us do not find it amusing.
Your personall assurances about darkfalls development do not answer all the sensible questions concerning the development of darkfall asked becuase of the serious lack of information thats been released.
Or actually no wait, I just moved from Switzerland, leaving my family, friends, cats..my whole life behind..just to join a social project and a hoax to get monies.
You obviously feel happy to state that everything is fine with the development of darkfall, perhapes the developers could release information sufficient to demonstrate to the majority of people that your statements are justified.
Oh wait, we actually don’t really get any money from people yet..oh shucks..something in our masterplan is actually not so well thought out like we hoped..
I presume you are bieng paid for your work, and i presume the developers of darkfall expect to get some financial return for there workby releasing darkfall so perhapes you should be acting more professionaly, becuase alot of people think your actions are detrimentaly effecting the potential finananical succes of darkfall.
So now you care about the financial success . So you really love DF!(?)
Just becuase you or any of the developers have not recieved any money from customers does not mean you have not recieved investments to pay the wages of the developers for years
They owe nothing to nobody except to their investors; and the $$$ people look really confident with their progress since the pay for this project for so many years and they have issued a $ 27 Mloan for DF.
You feeling that the developers do not have to demonstrate progress with the project or that they do not owe the followers of darkfall anything becuase no money has been recieved yet sounds very unprofessional
Remember It’s their years that they spend and their money. Again they don’t care about you. Right now u are Mr. Nobody! Try to understand this! For them you are nothing! You will be Mr. Somebody if/ when you buy their game. Then your opinion is going to be the most valuable asset for Aventurine and they will probably lick your ass. Until then….zippo!
---------- "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
Remember It’s their years that they spend and their money. Again they don’t care about you. Right now u are Mr. Nobody! Try to understand this! For them you are nothing! You will be Mr. Somebody if/ when you buy their game. Then your opinion is going to be the most valuable asset for Aventurine and they will probably lick your ass. Until then….zippo!
supposed developer/artist personal blog does NOT equal official, press release information. talking about http://tascha.ch/ am I saying this blog or the information in it is fake? no. I'm sure it's real. Does it mean anything? NO. Only official, released information from the actual company, through official means is information that can be considered accurate or trusted. At least, that's how 99% of business' in the world operate. Like usual, both fanbois and haters are making mountains out of mole hills. Both groups are wrong. Sorry.
Yet you see the problem is that people dont actually believe what the company says. Of course I'm confused on why a first hand account of whats going on is not considered anything. That would be similar to saying that you'll only believe what the doctor says even though the person was right there next to the doctor and retold exactly what he said.
supposed developer/artist personal blog does NOT equal official, press release information. talking about http://tascha.ch/ am I saying this blog or the information in it is fake? no. I'm sure it's real. Does it mean anything? NO. Only official, released information from the actual company, through official means is information that can be considered accurate or trusted. At least, that's how 99% of business' in the world operate. Like usual, both fanbois and haters are making mountains out of mole hills. Both groups are wrong. Sorry.
Yet you see the problem is that people dont actually believe what the company says. Of course I'm confused on why a first hand account of whats going on is not considered anything. That would be similar to saying that you'll only believe what the doctor says even though the person was right there next to the doctor and retold exactly what he said.
I think past letdowns have made the majority of the community cautious when it comes to updates and the like. I know, at least for myself, that I take everything that has been said with a grain of salt (due to past disappointments).
Trust has to be earned, and past blemishes on Aventurine's record took some of that away (not necessairly the way the company operates, but rather the cancelled beta). However, I do believe that many people's doubts will vanish with the start of beta. Until that time, I think that many will remain skeptical.
supposed developer/artist personal blog does NOT equal official, press release information. talking about http://tascha.ch/ am I saying this blog or the information in it is fake? no. I'm sure it's real. Does it mean anything? NO. Only official, released information from the actual company, through official means is information that can be considered accurate or trusted. At least, that's how 99% of business' in the world operate. Like usual, both fanbois and haters are making mountains out of mole hills. Both groups are wrong. Sorry.
Yet you see the problem is that people dont actually believe what the company says. Of course I'm confused on why a first hand account of whats going on is not considered anything. That would be similar to saying that you'll only believe what the doctor says even though the person was right there next to the doctor and retold exactly what he said.
I think past letdowns have made the majority of the community cautious when it comes to updates and the like. I know, at least for myself, that I take everything that has been said with a grain of salt (due to past disappointments).
Trust has to be earned, and past blemishes on Aventurine's record took some of that away (not necessairly the way the company operates, but rather the cancelled beta). However, I do believe that many people's doubts will vanish with the start of beta. Until that time, I think that many will remain skeptical.
I wasn't specifically talking about aventurine or DF. In most cases people don't really believe what the company says regardless of the who they were dealing with. They believe that any info that comes from them is completely biased.
Someone on the official darkfall forums posted a link to this websitehttp://www.tascha.ch/ by an artist named Natascha Roeoesli who aparantly moved recently to start working on darkfall, she has made comments about the development of darkfall,its community and the recent preview by Asp.
I have never been to her website before , know nothing about her personaly except for quickly reading the "about" section of her website and have no personal grudge against her for any reason.
I only wanted to comment on her remarks about the darkfall comunity and the recent preview by Asp becuase i did not think some of her remarks where proffesional and showed a lack of apprecation of the reality of the games general reputation within the MMO community.
Talk about Return of the Prodigal Son, I thought after you previously saying in your last reply
"Just ignore Polarization, he's a troll he made this thread just so that he could bait people. Don't encourage him anymore,"
you would no longer be gracing us with your presence, im so glad to see you have returned. Luke, i am your Father.
I noticed you have removed all the qoutes from Natascha Roeoesli's article in your reply to my original post therefor removing the context that my replys to her where made in, i suppose people can draw there own conclusions as to why you would do that (if it was intentional).
You have also selectively qouted only parts of my post in your reply and not presented it in its original form in full (unless this was to do with the Moderation edit).
Excuse me, but you're the one who started this thread trolling our DF forums here at MMORPG trying to convince us that Asp's review is fake.
Reading comprehension, I never said Asp's preview was fake, and your constant accusation that im a troll is only your opinion not everyone agrees with it.
Now you have a problem with one of their Artists who posted an opinion piece about trolls like you (You're not the only one), although I don't think this was specificly at you but the accusations do fit.
Reading comprehension, As i explained in my preamble to my post i dont have a problem with one of their artists, i have a problem specificaly with the article from her website as i clearly stated.
If you got the impression she was only talking about the "trolls" then thats your opinion, I got the impression she was talking in more general terms about the Darkfall community as a whole.
People following Darkfall behave like this becuase of the lack of developer interaction and relatively sparton amount of screen shots (and videos) released over the years which encourages speculation by the community.
Polarization, you got more then enough info out there including screens and vids that are in pre-beta stage.
Myself and many others are not content with a few short videos the most substantial from last year and many screenshots that are years old most only showing figures against scenery, or just scenery.
No other company releases so much info before beta.
That statement is totaly false and wishfull thinking as anyone who has a general knowledge of the MMO industry knows, If darkfall is going into beta soon it has released relatively little information in comparasion to most other games.
Making the accusation that most screen shots released by developers are faked seems peculiar, i do hope you are not also refering to any of the screen shots released by the darkfall developers.
Excuse me weret you the one accusing of DF of being Fake?
Reading comprehension, no I have not.
Implying that all the things that they released including screens and vids and all the info was fake because it was vaporwere to you.
Reading comprehension, I never said all the screens / vids and info is fake, ive never said darkfall is vaporware.
Natascha Roeoesli said most screen shots are faked, and that big companies have departments to manipulate screenshots and videos, i dont think she was implying it she just flat out stated it as fact.
SO yu're ok with big corporations not releasing any info,
Reading comprehension I never said that.
but you have a problem when the developers of DF release things to the community prior to beta.
Reading comprehension, I've said i want them to release more things to the community, not that i have a problem with them releasing things to the community.
Perhaps the explanation for the lackluster public relations we have experienced over the years following darkfall can be explained if the majority of the developers share your disregard for pre-release game communities (including darkfalls it would seem).
Other developers should be more open about their games just like the developers of DF have been.
I cannot possibly see how you could use Darkfall as an example of how developers should be more open, considering the overall history of the developers community interaction.
ANd they have been open about this since the beginning,
Yes i agree they where very open in 2001 and breifly at other times, but there have been considerable periods of time when they have said almost nothing, or only presented very inadequate information in the opinion of many.
they did not keep a blackout for 4 years just like the rest of these game studios do;
I do not agree with you that the majority of developement studios maintain information blackouts for 4 years during thier development, making such a claim seems irational and unfounded to me.
I and many people in the community have experienced blackouts by the darkfall developers many times in the past, I fail to see how anyone following the game on the official forums would not appreciate this.
all we get from other developers is basically ALL HYPE brushed up screens, and a few tad bits of eye candy.
I dont agree that all developers behave like that but ironically thats the impression I've got from the developers of Darkfall.
While from DF we got Alpha vids and screenshots that were not brushed up,
I hope your right but dont the comments by Natascha Roeoesli make you wonder?
and when you look at the progression of the game you see the changes that have been made.
Yes i agree they have demonstrated progress from the early Alpha to the current build, and they did release that video that i found very impressive and exciting.
But that was a year ago, i feel they have failed to demonstrate progress since then.
What about the people asking simple and rational questions like
why do only members of guilds get access to play test and do previews?
Why did the preview not contain any new information?
Why was the majority of the preview not directly about his gameplay experience?
Why did Asp play a one year old demonstration build that we have allready seen in the 2006 video?
Why did he not take any pictures and why where no screen shots or videos released with the preview?
Why did he only mention basic gameplay from his demo experience and non of the major features?
Why did he not provide definate beta date or a release date and only vague assurances?
Why did he Q and A only with his guild members and not with members of the community?
I do not think you can dissmiss everyone bieng critical about Asp's preview by attempting to lump us all together as idiotic basher's crying hoax.
The problem is not the review, LOD or Asp, it's you dude; it's people like you who troll these forums and make up stuff to go along with your view of reality.
I dont think you can dissmiss all my questions and concerns about Asp's preview and how they relate in general to Darkfalls development by accusing me of bieng the problem, how about all the other people who have expressed there concerns are they also at fault?
You feeling that the developers do not have to demonstrate progress with the project or that they do not owe the followers of darkfall anything becuase no money has been recieved yet sounds very unprofessional
She's not going to come here and debate you mainly because for the most part you took everyhting she said and you twisted it to make yourself and people like you who are most likely paid shills and trolls look innocent.
What made you assume i was expecting a reply?, it would be naive to think she has the time or inclination to get directly involved with the darkfall community especialy considering her remarks about it.
Can you explain where i took everything she said and twisted it?, i think some of the things she said where quite self explanatory.
Im Glad to see you are resorting to outragious conspiracy accusations again, dissmissing people as trolls and shills does not answer their questions or concerns just makes you look desperate in my opinion.
But in reality people like you are not innocent,
Not innocent of what, is it a crime to be critical or ask questions about Darkfall?
and I am glad one of the artists from DF posted an opinion piece about certain individuals who are acting unprofessionaly on forums such as these lieying and posting disinformation.
Again i got the feeling she was also making genrally negative comments about the Darkfall community and its behaviour and not just specific sections of it.
I fail to see how you can accuse members of the Darkfall community that ask questions and are critical as unprofessinal, we can encourage the developers to improve there customer relations by expressing are concerns and in doing so improve this games public reputation (which in my opinion needs alot of work).
Most people are not happy passively accepting and aproving of anything and everything a developer does or says, I fail to see how this approuch can be benificial for the long term health of darkfall's community or its financial success.
LIke I said this isent anyhting new, ever heard of Thrones of Chaos, people posting about Aventurine not existing, DF not being a real game, Aventurine not owning their trade-mark. DF Developers trying to sell DF for 1 mil, all screens beign fake, all vids being fake, visits to DF offices being a hoax.
Im not quite sure those examples are directly relavent to a developer potentialy making negative and unprofessinal (in my opinion) remarks about the community for the game she is working on.
Ohh and there was an AOC dev that made fun of DF on AOC forums, FUNCOM had to apologize for it although I think this was more of a slip up rather then an apology.
Yes there are many developers that have acted unproffesionaly in the past by posting there opinions that the community has been critical of, as you say normaly they retract the statements or make some form of apology.
Whenever this happens a normal and healthy game community disscusses the comments in a rational and intelligent manner, unfortunatly it seems this community is generally not able to do so without some members inability to comment on the subject constructively and resorting to constent personal attacks.
"Why am I not suprised that a someone of the dev team is not a Fan of updating the community THEY CREATED. the entire ASP “update ” was a joke. agian played on teh few left that care in the Community that this person does not seem to care about. Breaking news PRIOR to your “employment” this team asked the Community to Bring fans there …we did .they said they would do weekly updates ,,they failed.they said they we do bi-weekly updates ..they failed.. hfl the times the udpates as you even stated are Screen shots of what I suspect is lihek you said old trash saved on a drive,Not wotrh the space that take up."
"The whole generalization that you make about the Darkfall forums are rather unfounded.
As an avid follower of about 5 years now, I can confidently say that most of the die-hard posters are ultimately good people and don’t fit in with the “talking out of their butts” comment.
As for the whole LoD interview; my perspective is that the way the article was released was not well handled by the clan. It came off, to me personally, as if they were teasing and almost mocking most of the DFO fans.
I had no ill will against LoD until I read this on their forums:
“for Asp to post his write up.
I believe they are doing something like this
f5, f5, f5, jack off to pics of DF, f5 f5 f5, post: “where is Asp’s writeup” f5, f5, jackoff to pics of female elves.
A day in the life of a forum junky. ”
But yea, sure this is just another “idiotic” show to help with my “e-peen”.
The rumors of Vaporware exist becase of the action of better yet lack of action by your employers bottom line .When even Game sites start to call the dev team on the poor information and lack of updates on a 7 year game as they have several times you know there is a problem."
(Clicking on his name links to a darkfall guild that had a member visit the developers and wrote an article about it last year)
Looks like someone has even copy pasted my small list of questions about the Asp preview in the comments section, who was that? shows that im not the only one who wants answers and are unhappy. And somone has posted a link to a post on the official forums discusing her article, presumably becuase they feel she should see how her comments have effected some followers of the game.
Yes some of the comments are pointless vaporware flames or totaly positive faith based posts but there are sensible and rational people asking the same critical questions.
Or a post on the official darkfall forums about the article
Alot of the comments on the official forums about hte article are mirroring the concerns i tryed to express, its not just my opinion that this is unpofessional.
Despite what a few vocal minority posters who are constantly attacking anyone who is critical of darkfall on this forum are saying they do not represent the majority of people following Darkfall or who are only casualy interested.
no alot of us just dont go out of are way to slander other games it isnt like you giving them any money and they dont care that much about us theyc are about there game they want to play it will be released it will go to beta and thats that not you not hows not nay can stop that
The rest is all about quality so stop posting stupid crap and picking every lilt hing apart caus emost fan bois dont give a crap about it and your just wasting your time and everyone elses there no point and contiune this your questions should concern lag/ quality of the game and thats it
not how they do there pr or run there biz its dorsnt matter what anyone says its going to be released
Just so we all realize this THEY NEVER SAID THEY WOULD DO IT EVERY TWO WEEKS. What they did say was that they'll update AS PERMITTED and I really don't know where they got this misconception.
Comments
because your still saying crap and making things up
0k21,
At the risk of fragmenting the various discussions in this thread a bit more, I just had to comment on your concept of supporting original ideas. I think it would be just about insane not to encourage unique ideas (at least in principle). There is no shortage of people commenting on the stale repackaged games that have been paraded out as companies have realized there is money to be made in this market space. That said, unique ideas are sometimes mislabeled as such. While I am not as versed in the history of Vanguard as many might be, the evolution of discussion on that game seems to boil down to unique ideas that didn't materialize as such. From what I understand, some of the game was in fact unique, but the implementation was subpar for any number of reasons. With that in mind, I can certainly understand the viewpoint that expresses concern over the likelihood that another game, presenting itself as having unique ideas, might not materialize or may not materialize in such a way as to be a positive entry into the market.
In the cases where unique ideas do not live up to their presumed potential, the actual launch and life of the game may do more to harm further development in the evolution of online gaming as unique ideas will have their image as a "risk factor" reinforced. So, with the mindset, I can see that early constructive criticism can be extremely beneficial to the developers and the final product. When something appears to be failing in delivering the unique features in a solid implementation, the red flags should go up and people should take notice. I suppose, it's my opinion that a fan of something should not just be an unquestioning fan. A fan should ask/answer questions and participate in the community as such to help contribute to a positive end product. This might mean asking unpopular questions, but that's just as important as supportively answering other people's questions.
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers.
Do something wrong, no one forgets"
-from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
1 good thing they will deliver on the promises they made the quality of it we wont know until we play
I personally have absolutely no problem with people who criticize games, I do it myself, if I think a game is a load of crap I will say it's crap and I will give the reasons I think it is, but what I can't stand is people who do it when they've been repeatedly proven wrong, are making stuff up, or are just clearly out to cause general trouble for the game for whatever reason.
Sure, it may not live up to some of it's promises ( which I doubt now that there's been such silence from them and a very large review from asp ) but one things for sure, the company and game itself as it is, is something that is worth supporting, the company is for once an independent company is trying to do something original and the game concept itself is original, if a game like this gets out then it is likely to attract a lot more players to the MMORPG market and it will also give those clone games a good kick up the backside for trying to rip people off.
Quoting people doesn't make you clever, in fact, it makes you all the more stupid for not bothering to read the quotes you post in the first place.
and oyu control mmorpgers minds now ok have fun with that 1
we dont know how many people willc ome form what i heard theres ALOT of people in wow waiting and stuff like i said it will probly start out like eve it may not break 1 million subs but there will be enough people playing who knows we have to wait and see
well yea of course alot of stuff we cant confuirm until we play it
Someone on the official darkfall forums posted a link to this website http://www.tascha.ch/ by an artist named Natascha Roeoesli who aparantly moved recently to start working on darkfall, she has made comments about the development of darkfall,its community and the recent preview by Asp.
She is the Wife of http://www.henningludvigsen.com/ who is working full time on darkfall acording to his website.
I have never been to her website before , know nothing about her personaly except for quickly reading the "about" section of her website and have no personal grudge against her for any reason.
I only wanted to comment on her remarks about the darkfall comunity and the recent preview by Asp becuase i did not think some of her remarks where proffesional and showed a lack of apprecation of the reality of the games general reputation within the MMO community.
It seems that following games and trash talking on forums is THE new way of spending time.
Its not new to many people who have spent years following darkfall its all we can do while we wait.
I never really understood the urge of following a game in development,
Alot of people have the urge to follow darkfall because it promises to offer many things that are not currently avaialble in any other mmo released or in development.
hanging on every word they devs say or look at screenshots which are most of the time faked anyway.
People following Darkfall behave like this becuase of the lack of developer interaction and relatively sparton amount of screen shots (and videos) released over the years which encourages speculation by the community.
Making the accusation that most screen shots released by developers are faked seems peculiar, i do hope you are not also refering to any of the screen shots released by the darkfall developers.
Big companies even have their own video and screenshot departments and most people can’t tell a modeled/placed 3D screencapture or video from “supposedly” in game footage.
Are you trying to make excuses for darkfall's lack of discloser by implying that "Big companies" developing other MMO's that do release relatively large amounts of screenshots and videos can be dismised as evidence of there progress becuase they can be faked or manipulated?
I also, until recently, not really cared about gaming communities of not yet released games (even though I do of course follow the DF Forums- I seem to enjoy taking a daily dose of self inflicting mental pain).
Perhaps the explanation for the lackluster public relations we have experienced over the years following darkfall can be explained if the majority of the developers share your disregard for pre-release game communities (including darkfalls it would seem).
Even though I do not mind the trash talking and the e-peen comparison on the forums but what I DO mind is fans trashing eachothers games or talking out of their butts.
Perhapes if the developers of darkfall had been more forthcoming about the reasons for the constant delays and canceld beta's and provided more information about the state of development the community forums would be alot more constructive and pleasent.
Not full of weary and disgruntled people hopeing and waiting that something will happen "soon" as we have constantly been told for years and have less confrontation between true believers and people who are sceptical becuase of there past experiences concerning darkfall.
Also people claiming that the recent visit of a gamer to our offices in Athens was a Hoax, bashing the guild and the guy who actually visited us, is just outright idiotic and just…well plain…kinda at a loss of words.
What about the people asking simple and rational questions like
why do only members of guilds get access to play test and do previews?
Why did the preview not contain any new information?
Why was the majority of the preview not directly about his gameplay experience?
Why did Asp play a one year old demonstration build that we have allready seen in the 2006 video?
Why did he not take any pictures and why where no screen shots or videos released with the preview?
Why did he only mention basic gameplay from his demo experience and non of the major features?
Why did he not provide definate beta date or a release date and only vague assurances?
Why did he Q and A only with his guild members and not with members of the community?
I do not think you can dissmiss everyone bieng critical about Asp's preview by attempting to lump us all together as idiotic basher's crying hoax.
I also take a bit of offense in the fact that people claim DF is a false project and that there is actually no developer team (as a matter of fact I think that is quite hilarious). I must be pretty delusional to go to work everyday on a non existing project.
Im sory people hurt your feelings when they expect the developers of Darkfall to start demonstrating something to justify all the claims they have been making for so many years.
Im glad you find many peoples frustration and disillusionment about the lack of information concerning Darkfall and its developers hilarious but im afraid alot of us do not find it amusing.
Your personall assurances about darkfalls development do not answer all the sensible questions concerning the development of darkfall asked becuase of the serious lack of information thats been released.
Or actually no wait, I just moved from Switzerland, leaving my family, friends, cats..my whole life behind..just to join a social project and a hoax to get monies.
You obviously feel happy to state that everything is fine with the development of darkfall, perhapes the developers could release information sufficient to demonstrate to the majority of people that your statements are justified.
Oh wait, we actually don’t really get any money from people yet..oh shucks..something in our masterplan is actually not so well thought out like we hoped..
I presume you are bieng paid for your work, and i presume the developers of darkfall expect to get some financial return for there workby releasing darkfall so perhapes you should be acting more professionaly, becuase alot of people think your actions are detrimentaly effecting the potential finananical succes of darkfall.
Just becuase you or any of the developers have not recieved any money from customers does not mean you have not recieved investments to pay the wages of the developers for years
You feeling that the developers do not have to demonstrate progress with the project or that they do not owe the followers of darkfall anything becuase no money has been recieved yet sounds very unprofessional
Artists are a dime a dozen.. I would love to see the profiles of the "programmers" they have building Darkfall. Programmers are what really matter..
Someone on the official darkfall forums posted a link to this website http://www.tascha.ch/ by an artist named Natascha Roeoesli who aparantly moved recently to start working on darkfall, she has made comments about the development of darkfall,its community and the recent preview by Asp.
She is the Wife of http://www.henningludvigsen.com/ who is working full time on darkfall acording to his website.
I have never been to her website before , know nothing about her personaly except for quickly reading the "about" section of her website and have no personal grudge against her for any reason.
I only wanted to comment on her remarks about the darkfall comunity and the recent preview by Asp becuase i did not think some of her remarks where proffesional and showed a lack of apprecation of the reality of the games general reputation within the MMO community.
Excuse me, but you're the one who started this thread trolling our DF forums here at MMORPG trying to convince us that Asp's review is fake. Now you have a problem with one of their Artists who posted an opinion piece about trolls like you (You're not the only one), although I don't think this was specificly at you but the accusations do fit.
People following Darkfall behave like this becuase of the lack of developer interaction and relatively sparton amount of screen shots (and videos) released over the years which encourages speculation by the community.
Polarization, you got more then enough info out there including screens and vids that are in pre-beta stage. No other company releases so much info before beta.
Making the accusation that most screen shots released by developers are faked seems peculiar, i do hope you are not also refering to any of the screen shots released by the darkfall developers.
Excuse me weret you the one accusing of DF of being Fake? Implying that all the things that they released including screens and vids and all the info was fake because it was vaporwere to you. SO yu're ok with big corporations not releasing any info, but you have a problem when the developers of DF release things to the community prior to beta.
Perhaps the explanation for the lackluster public relations we have experienced over the years following darkfall can be explained if the majority of the developers share your disregard for pre-release game communities (including darkfalls it would seem).
Other developers should be more open about their games just like the developers of DF have been. ANd they have been open about this since the beginning, they did not keep a blackout for 4 years just like the rest of these game studios do; all we get from other developers is basically ALL HYPE brushed up screens, and a few tad bits of eye candy.
While from DF we got Alpha vids and screenshots that were not brushed up, and when you look at the progression of the game you see the changes that have been made.
What about the people asking simple and rational questions like
why do only members of guilds get access to play test and do previews?
Why did the preview not contain any new information?
Why was the majority of the preview not directly about his gameplay experience?
Why did Asp play a one year old demonstration build that we have allready seen in the 2006 video?
Why did he not take any pictures and why where no screen shots or videos released with the preview?
Why did he only mention basic gameplay from his demo experience and non of the major features?
Why did he not provide definate beta date or a release date and only vague assurances?
Why did he Q and A only with his guild members and not with members of the community?
I do not think you can dissmiss everyone bieng critical about Asp's preview by attempting to lump us all together as idiotic basher's crying hoax.
The problem is not the review, LOD or Asp, it's you dude; it's people like you who troll these forums and make up stuff to go along with your view of reality.
You feeling that the developers do not have to demonstrate progress with the project or that they do not owe the followers of darkfall anything becuase no money has been recieved yet sounds very unprofessional
She's not going to come here and debate you mainly because for the most part you took everyhting she said and you twisted it to make yourself and people like you who are most likely paid shills and trolls look innocent. But in reality people like you are not innocent, and I am glad one of the artists from DF posted an opinion piece about certain individuals who are acting unprofessionaly on forums such as these lieying and posting disinformation.
LIke I said this isent anyhting new, ever heard of Thrones of Chaos, people posting about Aventurine not existing, DF not being a real game, Aventurine not owning their trade-mark. DF Developers trying to sell DF for 1 mil, all screens beign fake, all vids being fake, visits to DF offices being a hoax. Ohh and there was an AOC dev that made fun of DF on AOC forums, FUNCOM had to apologize for it although I think this was more of a slip up rather then an apology.
{Mod Edit}
supposed developer/artist personal blog does NOT equal official, press release information.
talking about http://tascha.ch/
am I saying this blog or the information in it is fake? no. I'm sure it's real.
Does it mean anything?
NO.
Only official, released information from the actual company, through official means is information that can be considered accurate or trusted.
At least, that's how 99% of business' in the world operate.
Like usual, both fanbois and haters are making mountains out of mole hills.
Both groups are wrong. Sorry.
i personaly trust these devs
and that hardly ever happens
hang on every word they devs say or look at screenshots which are most of thtime faked anyway.
People following Darkfall behave like this becuase of the lack of developer interaction and relatively sparton amount of screen shots (and videos) released over the years which encourages speculation by the community.
Making the accusation that most screen shots released by developers are faked seems peculiar, i do hope you are not also refering to any of the screen shots released by the darkfall developers.
She must be talking about the cinematic videos that some companies are selling to naive gamers as actual in game video!
Big companies even have their own video and screenshot departments and most people can’t tell a modeled/placed 3D screencapture or video from “supposedly” in game footage.
Are you trying to make excuses for darkfall's lack of discloser by implying that "Big companies" developing other MMO's that do release relatively large amounts of screenshots and videos can be dismised as evidence of there progress becuase they can be faked or manipulated?
You said so!
lso, until recently, not really cared about gaming communities of not yet released games (even though I do of course follow the DF Forums- I seem to enjoy taking a daily dose of self inflicting mental pain).
Perhaps the explanation for the lackluster public relations we have experienced over the years following darkfall can be explained if the majority of the developers share your disregard for pre-release game communities (including darkfalls it would seem).
They make PR for gamers not for trolls! If you don’t want to see the information there is no miracle that will allow you to see it.. There is a mist of hate that is blocking your vision
Even though I do not mind the trash talking and the e-peen comparison on the forums but what I DO mind is fans trashing eachothers games or talking out of their butts.
Perhapes if the developers of darkfall had been more forthcoming about the reasons for the constant delays and canceld beta's and provided more information about the state of development the community forums would be alot more constructive and pleasent.
Not full of weary and disgruntled people hopeing and waiting that something will happen "soon" as we have constantly been told for years and have less confrontation between true believers and people who are sceptical becuase of there past experiences concerning darkfall.
They owe you nothing!! They are making a game that it could make them rich and since they are developing the game with their own money they follow their own timetable. If you don’t like the way they treat you then just stop following the game.. For them the importance of your existence is valued with a big 0(you are one person in a 20million people market). Make your self a favor and stop following this game
Also people claiming that the recent visit of a gamer to our offices in Athens was a Hoax, bashing the guild and the guy who actually visited us, is just outright idiotic and just…well plain…kinda at a loss of words.
What about the people asking simple and rational questions like
why do only members of guilds get access to play test and do previews?
Because they matter to them. The devs are gamers and they respect the opinion of other gamers!
Why did the preview not contain any new information?
Because there is only one truth-that this game rocks. Let me remind you that the featurelist of this game is so advanced that’s miles away from anything else in the market. What else do you need?. Personally im really happy that someone went there to confirm that this featurelist checks.
Why was the majority of the preview not directly about his gameplay experience?
Did you read the report?
Why did Asp play a one year old demonstration build that we have allready seen in the 2006 video?
Because they are confident enough to know that even that old build is so impressive that it could impress an experienced gamer. It’s funny that you mentioning that video. It’s like you admitting that one year ago when you first seen that video you were convinced you about the quality of this game. This video checks with what ASP has seen and I keep that he was really impressed with the graphics of that old demo. Now imagine how good this game is after a year of development.
Why did he not take any pictures and why where no screen shots or videos released with the preview?
It’s not a birthday party; it’s a review of a game! There are plenty of screenshots of the game and if you want I can post some links for you.
Why did he only mention basic gameplay from his demo experience and non of the major features?
He did mention most of the differentiate features of the game were there (Full loot, Boats, FFA PvP, mounts, city building) but he was more impressed by the game play of DF. What’s your problem with that?
Why did he not provide definate beta date or a release date and only vague assurances?
NDA…
Why did he Q and A only with his guild members and not with members of the community?
Because they matter to him and this community doesn’t... For LoD the importance of your existence is valued with a 0!
I do not think you can dissmiss everyone bieng critical about Asp's preview by attempting to lump us all together as idiotic basher's crying hoax.
You really love Darkfall and adventurine and you want this game to succeed but…. I
also take a bit of offense in the fact that people claim DF is a false project and that there is actually no developer team (as a matter of fact I think that is quite hilarious). I must be pretty delusional to go to work everyday on a non existing project.
Im sory people hurt your feelings when they expect the developers of Darkfall to start demonstrating something to justify all the claims they have been making for so many years.
She is ignoring your existence don’t feel sorry…
Im glad you find many peoples frustration and disillusionment about the lack of information concerning Darkfall and its developers hilarious but im afraid alot of us do not find it amusing.
Your personall assurances about darkfalls development do not answer all the sensible questions concerning the development of darkfall asked becuase of the serious lack of information thats been released.
Or actually no wait, I just moved from Switzerland, leaving my family, friends, cats..my whole life behind..just to join a social project and a hoax to get monies.
You obviously feel happy to state that everything is fine with the development of darkfall, perhapes the developers could release information sufficient to demonstrate to the majority of people that your statements are justified.
Oh wait, we actually don’t really get any money from people yet..oh shucks..something in our masterplan is actually not so well thought out like we hoped..
I presume you are bieng paid for your work, and i presume the developers of darkfall expect to get some financial return for there workby releasing darkfall so perhapes you should be acting more professionaly, becuase alot of people think your actions are detrimentaly effecting the potential finananical succes of darkfall.
So now you care about the financial success . So you really love DF!(?)
Just becuase you or any of the developers have not recieved any money from customers does not mean you have not recieved investments to pay the wages of the developers for years
They owe nothing to nobody except to their investors; and the $$$ people look really confident with their progress since the pay for this project for so many years and they have issued a $ 27 Mloan for DF.
You feeling that the developers do not have to demonstrate progress with the project or that they do not owe the followers of darkfall anything becuase no money has been recieved yet sounds very unprofessional
Remember It’s their years that they spend and their money. Again they don’t care about you. Right now u are Mr. Nobody! Try to understand this! For them you are nothing! You will be Mr. Somebody if/ when you buy their game. Then your opinion is going to be the most valuable asset for Aventurine and they will probably lick your ass. Until then….zippo!
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, look at all the "Faith".
----------
"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
She is ignoring your existence don’t feel sorry…
Remember It’s their years that they spend and their money. Again they don’t care about you. Right now u are Mr. Nobody! Try to understand this! For them you are nothing! You will be Mr. Somebody if/ when you buy their game. Then your opinion is going to be the most valuable asset for Aventurine and they will probably lick your ass. Until then….zippo!
OMG lol good post.
Yet you see the problem is that people dont actually believe what the company says. Of course I'm confused on why a first hand account of whats going on is not considered anything. That would be similar to saying that you'll only believe what the doctor says even though the person was right there next to the doctor and retold exactly what he said.
Yet you see the problem is that people dont actually believe what the company says. Of course I'm confused on why a first hand account of whats going on is not considered anything. That would be similar to saying that you'll only believe what the doctor says even though the person was right there next to the doctor and retold exactly what he said.
I think past letdowns have made the majority of the community cautious when it comes to updates and the like. I know, at least for myself, that I take everything that has been said with a grain of salt (due to past disappointments).
Trust has to be earned, and past blemishes on Aventurine's record took some of that away (not necessairly the way the company operates, but rather the cancelled beta). However, I do believe that many people's doubts will vanish with the start of beta. Until that time, I think that many will remain skeptical.
Yet you see the problem is that people dont actually believe what the company says. Of course I'm confused on why a first hand account of whats going on is not considered anything. That would be similar to saying that you'll only believe what the doctor says even though the person was right there next to the doctor and retold exactly what he said.
I think past letdowns have made the majority of the community cautious when it comes to updates and the like. I know, at least for myself, that I take everything that has been said with a grain of salt (due to past disappointments).
Trust has to be earned, and past blemishes on Aventurine's record took some of that away (not necessairly the way the company operates, but rather the cancelled beta). However, I do believe that many people's doubts will vanish with the start of beta. Until that time, I think that many will remain skeptical.
I wasn't specifically talking about aventurine or DF. In most cases people don't really believe what the company says regardless of the who they were dealing with. They believe that any info that comes from them is completely biased.
Someone on the official darkfall forums posted a link to this website http://www.tascha.ch/ by an artist named Natascha Roeoesli who aparantly moved recently to start working on darkfall, she has made comments about the development of darkfall,its community and the recent preview by Asp.
She is the Wife of http://www.henningludvigsen.com/ who is working full time on darkfall acording to his website.
I have never been to her website before , know nothing about her personaly except for quickly reading the "about" section of her website and have no personal grudge against her for any reason.
I only wanted to comment on her remarks about the darkfall comunity and the recent preview by Asp becuase i did not think some of her remarks where proffesional and showed a lack of apprecation of the reality of the games general reputation within the MMO community.
Talk about Return of the Prodigal Son, I thought after you previously saying in your last reply
"Just ignore Polarization, he's a troll he made this thread just so that he could bait people. Don't encourage him anymore,"
you would no longer be gracing us with your presence, im so glad to see you have returned. Luke, i am your Father.
I noticed you have removed all the qoutes from Natascha Roeoesli's article in your reply to my original post therefor removing the context that my replys to her where made in, i suppose people can draw there own conclusions as to why you would do that (if it was intentional).
You have also selectively qouted only parts of my post in your reply and not presented it in its original form in full (unless this was to do with the Moderation edit).
Excuse me, but you're the one who started this thread trolling our DF forums here at MMORPG trying to convince us that Asp's review is fake.
Reading comprehension, I never said Asp's preview was fake, and your constant accusation that im a troll is only your opinion not everyone agrees with it.
Now you have a problem with one of their Artists who posted an opinion piece about trolls like you (You're not the only one), although I don't think this was specificly at you but the accusations do fit.
Reading comprehension, As i explained in my preamble to my post i dont have a problem with one of their artists, i have a problem specificaly with the article from her website as i clearly stated.
If you got the impression she was only talking about the "trolls" then thats your opinion, I got the impression she was talking in more general terms about the Darkfall community as a whole.
People following Darkfall behave like this becuase of the lack of developer interaction and relatively sparton amount of screen shots (and videos) released over the years which encourages speculation by the community.
Polarization, you got more then enough info out there including screens and vids that are in pre-beta stage.
Myself and many others are not content with a few short videos the most substantial from last year and many screenshots that are years old most only showing figures against scenery, or just scenery.
No other company releases so much info before beta.
That statement is totaly false and wishfull thinking as anyone who has a general knowledge of the MMO industry knows, If darkfall is going into beta soon it has released relatively little information in comparasion to most other games.
Making the accusation that most screen shots released by developers are faked seems peculiar, i do hope you are not also refering to any of the screen shots released by the darkfall developers.
Excuse me weret you the one accusing of DF of being Fake?
Reading comprehension, no I have not.
Implying that all the things that they released including screens and vids and all the info was fake because it was vaporwere to you.
Reading comprehension, I never said all the screens / vids and info is fake, ive never said darkfall is vaporware.
Natascha Roeoesli said most screen shots are faked, and that big companies have departments to manipulate screenshots and videos, i dont think she was implying it she just flat out stated it as fact.
SO yu're ok with big corporations not releasing any info,
Reading comprehension I never said that.
but you have a problem when the developers of DF release things to the community prior to beta.
Reading comprehension, I've said i want them to release more things to the community, not that i have a problem with them releasing things to the community.
Perhaps the explanation for the lackluster public relations we have experienced over the years following darkfall can be explained if the majority of the developers share your disregard for pre-release game communities (including darkfalls it would seem).
Other developers should be more open about their games just like the developers of DF have been.
I cannot possibly see how you could use Darkfall as an example of how developers should be more open, considering the overall history of the developers community interaction.
ANd they have been open about this since the beginning,
Yes i agree they where very open in 2001 and breifly at other times, but there have been considerable periods of time when they have said almost nothing, or only presented very inadequate information in the opinion of many.
they did not keep a blackout for 4 years just like the rest of these game studios do;
I do not agree with you that the majority of developement studios maintain information blackouts for 4 years during thier development, making such a claim seems irational and unfounded to me.
I and many people in the community have experienced blackouts by the darkfall developers many times in the past, I fail to see how anyone following the game on the official forums would not appreciate this.
all we get from other developers is basically ALL HYPE brushed up screens, and a few tad bits of eye candy.
I dont agree that all developers behave like that but ironically thats the impression I've got from the developers of Darkfall.
While from DF we got Alpha vids and screenshots that were not brushed up,
I hope your right but dont the comments by Natascha Roeoesli make you wonder?
and when you look at the progression of the game you see the changes that have been made.
Yes i agree they have demonstrated progress from the early Alpha to the current build, and they did release that video that i found very impressive and exciting.
But that was a year ago, i feel they have failed to demonstrate progress since then.
What about the people asking simple and rational questions like
why do only members of guilds get access to play test and do previews?
Why did the preview not contain any new information?
Why was the majority of the preview not directly about his gameplay experience?
Why did Asp play a one year old demonstration build that we have allready seen in the 2006 video?
Why did he not take any pictures and why where no screen shots or videos released with the preview?
Why did he only mention basic gameplay from his demo experience and non of the major features?
Why did he not provide definate beta date or a release date and only vague assurances?
Why did he Q and A only with his guild members and not with members of the community?
I do not think you can dissmiss everyone bieng critical about Asp's preview by attempting to lump us all together as idiotic basher's crying hoax.
The problem is not the review, LOD or Asp, it's you dude; it's people like you who troll these forums and make up stuff to go along with your view of reality.
I dont think you can dissmiss all my questions and concerns about Asp's preview and how they relate in general to Darkfalls development by accusing me of bieng the problem, how about all the other people who have expressed there concerns are they also at fault?
You feeling that the developers do not have to demonstrate progress with the project or that they do not owe the followers of darkfall anything becuase no money has been recieved yet sounds very unprofessional
She's not going to come here and debate you mainly because for the most part you took everyhting she said and you twisted it to make yourself and people like you who are most likely paid shills and trolls look innocent.
What made you assume i was expecting a reply?, it would be naive to think she has the time or inclination to get directly involved with the darkfall community especialy considering her remarks about it.
Can you explain where i took everything she said and twisted it?, i think some of the things she said where quite self explanatory.
Im Glad to see you are resorting to outragious conspiracy accusations again, dissmissing people as trolls and shills does not answer their questions or concerns just makes you look desperate in my opinion.
But in reality people like you are not innocent,
Not innocent of what, is it a crime to be critical or ask questions about Darkfall?
and I am glad one of the artists from DF posted an opinion piece about certain individuals who are acting unprofessionaly on forums such as these lieying and posting disinformation.
Again i got the feeling she was also making genrally negative comments about the Darkfall community and its behaviour and not just specific sections of it.
I fail to see how you can accuse members of the Darkfall community that ask questions and are critical as unprofessinal, we can encourage the developers to improve there customer relations by expressing are concerns and in doing so improve this games public reputation (which in my opinion needs alot of work).
Most people are not happy passively accepting and aproving of anything and everything a developer does or says, I fail to see how this approuch can be benificial for the long term health of darkfall's community or its financial success.
LIke I said this isent anyhting new, ever heard of Thrones of Chaos, people posting about Aventurine not existing, DF not being a real game, Aventurine not owning their trade-mark. DF Developers trying to sell DF for 1 mil, all screens beign fake, all vids being fake, visits to DF offices being a hoax.
Im not quite sure those examples are directly relavent to a developer potentialy making negative and unprofessinal (in my opinion) remarks about the community for the game she is working on.
Ohh and there was an AOC dev that made fun of DF on AOC forums, FUNCOM had to apologize for it although I think this was more of a slip up rather then an apology.
Yes there are many developers that have acted unproffesionaly in the past by posting there opinions that the community has been critical of, as you say normaly they retract the statements or make some form of apology.
Whenever this happens a normal and healthy game community disscusses the comments in a rational and intelligent manner, unfortunatly it seems this community is generally not able to do so without some members inability to comment on the subject constructively and resorting to constent personal attacks.
Its not just me who cares, look at the comments on her website about the article
http://www.tascha.ch/?p=170#comments
An example of two of the posts:-
mlucas
October 26th, 2007 1:12 am
"Why am I not suprised that a someone of the dev team is not a Fan of updating the community THEY CREATED. the entire ASP “update ” was a joke. agian played on teh few left that care in the Community that this person does not seem to care about. Breaking news PRIOR to your “employment” this team asked the Community to Bring fans there …we did .they said they would do weekly updates ,,they failed.they said they we do bi-weekly updates ..they failed.. hfl the times the udpates as you even stated are Screen shots of what I suspect is lihek you said old trash saved on a drive,Not wotrh the space that take up."
And
Uzik
"The whole generalization that you make about the Darkfall forums are rather unfounded.
As an avid follower of about 5 years now, I can confidently say that most of the die-hard posters are ultimately good people and don’t fit in with the “talking out of their butts” comment.
As for the whole LoD interview; my perspective is that the way the article was released was not well handled by the clan. It came off, to me personally, as if they were teasing and almost mocking most of the DFO fans.
I had no ill will against LoD until I read this on their forums:
“for Asp to post his write up.
I believe they are doing something like this
f5, f5, f5, jack off to pics of DF, f5 f5 f5, post: “where is Asp’s writeup” f5, f5, jackoff to pics of female elves.
A day in the life of a forum junky. ”
But yea, sure this is just another “idiotic” show to help with my “e-peen”.
The rumors of Vaporware exist becase of the action of better yet lack of action by your employers bottom line .When even Game sites start to call the dev team on the poor information and lack of updates on a 7 year game as they have several times you know there is a problem."
(Clicking on his name links to a darkfall guild that had a member visit the developers and wrote an article about it last year)
Looks like someone has even copy pasted my small list of questions about the Asp preview in the comments section, who was that? shows that im not the only one who wants answers and are unhappy.
And somone has posted a link to a post on the official forums discusing her article, presumably becuase they feel she should see how her comments have effected some followers of the game.
Yes some of the comments are pointless vaporware flames or totaly positive faith based posts but there are sensible and rational people asking the same critical questions.
Or a post on the official darkfall forums about the article
http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?t=44169
Alot of the comments on the official forums about hte article are mirroring the concerns i tryed to express, its not just my opinion that this is unpofessional.
Despite what a few vocal minority posters who are constantly attacking anyone who is critical of darkfall on this forum are saying they do not represent the majority of people following Darkfall or who are only casualy interested.
no alot of us just dont go out of are way to slander other games it isnt like you giving them any money and they dont care that much about us theyc are about there game they want to play it will be released it will go to beta and thats that not you not hows not nay can stop that
The rest is all about quality so stop posting stupid crap and picking every lilt hing apart caus emost fan bois dont give a crap about it and your just wasting your time and everyone elses there no point and contiune this your questions should concern lag/ quality of the game and thats it
not how they do there pr or run there biz its dorsnt matter what anyone says its going to be released
Just so we all realize this THEY NEVER SAID THEY WOULD DO IT EVERY TWO WEEKS. What they did say was that they'll update AS PERMITTED and I really don't know where they got this misconception.