I am writing this thread to show the stupidity of many SWG veterans. Which makes all SWG veterans, including myself look like complete lunatics. Please read the entire thread before you post anything.Trolls, I advise you all to stay clear of this thread. I am an SWG veteran, and this thread's intention isn't to try to justify the NGE. The true purpose of this thread is to tell every fellow SWG veteran to finally shut their huge mouths, and find a new fun game to play. Just like I did. Yes I'm a genius I managed to find a game other than SWG. Please feel free to congratulate me (sarcasm). I am very surprised and annoyed by the fact that people are still whining about the NGE and CU. It has been 3 years ladies and gentlemen. Three years!, how can you hold a grudge for so long? This next sentence will sound very sexist, and I apologize. The only people I've seen hold grudges for that long are women. You guys sound like complete fools when you whine about something that occured a few years back. All of you that disagree with me will probably try to counter this argument by saying that you spent time and money on this game. So your telling me that every game that you played and got tired of and quit, was a waste of your time and money. My friends that is exactly what it sounds like. You had fun with SWG right? that's all that matters. Move on to a new game, no game is eternal. The only games that are eternal are vaporware. There are many great games out there. Trust me you'll find one you like. I was one of those that was pissed off at SOE for ruining SWG, but I moved on. Yes SWG was one of my favorite games, but I got sick and tired of whining about something I had no power over. Just stay clear of SWG and play a game you do enjoy. Crying will get you nowhere. It will just make you miserable.
The reason I think people continue on is that SOE made it personal. It was virtual land to be sure, but still...when you kick people off their land and break up communities, it's personal. And when you tell your paying customers, F U we don't want YOUR business, it's personal. So most of us have moved on now, but we carry the torch and we will not forget, because Smed and his team made it personal.
Maybe the OP should move on. Why even come to the Veteran Refuge if he doesn't want refuge.
Very true I did fail, which is why I no longer fight. So just as how I have no power over SWG, I have no power over your opinions. I am sorry if I stirred up any trouble, i just wanted to get my opinion on this board. Since I can't do that even in a friendly way, without someone stating that I have low intelligence etc... I see no point in continuing this. You obviously only want to hear one thing. SWG should die and SOE should go with it. By the way SWG is already dead. Your beating a dead horse congratulations.
Why fight another battle when you have won the war? That is the question.
You can't say that civilization don't advance, however, for in every war they kill you in a new way. -Will Rogers
Originally posted by ThaneB Originally posted by PreCU calm down. Don't go all "get over it" 'n stuff. We've all had a creepy uncle touch us in inappropriate ways some time ago. Best thing to do is talk about it, inform others, and discuss relevant issues.
Of course this is true. But should you tell the world 100+ times about it. If everybody's heard the story what's the point of constantly repeating it. Exactly it's pointless. A complete waste of time.
two major points you are missing. What you've stated is just an opinion, and you don't speak for anyone but yourself.
get it? ok, you can get over us not getting over it now.
And in the end, really, this whole thing is bigger than just one of us. It can't be resolved by a single post or a single person for that matter (unless you happen to be married to Jessica Alba and in that case, you wouldn't be here). Th fact is that there are only two possible ways for it to be resolved. Resolution, in my single personal opinion being that the angry vet's bloodthirst is satisfied.
1. SOE apologizes and honestly addresses their past actions in a direct and open dialogue. Will this bring the game back? Nope. But it will shed light on what many of us has been ridiculed for claiming as fact. It may in some ways prove parts of our accusations wrong but it will be give and take as long as its honest and direct. Sony thought time would erase some of the anger and to their surprise and the the industry's note - it does not. Not when handled like it was and then later treated like it is. Will the angry vets return to the NGE? Nope but I think the anger will trickle down to a lesser number.
or
2. Someone else will release a Star Wars MMO. The angry vets will give it a try (depending on how it is laid out) and play it. They will still hate SOE for their actions but their hearts and minds will be somewhere else. Those who want blood will rejoice in the inevitable collapse or closing for SWG be it in a few months or in 2030.
In the meantime, both sides here and elsewhere will continue to champion their cause. Some will jump sides, others on both sides will find other causes. Its a forum to express interest and again, to champion your cause. The thing to keep in mind is that there are no "PVE forums". Its all PVP and its best to always be prepared for battle.
And in the end, really, this whole thing is bigger than just one of us.
Ain't that the truth!
And it disturbs me to see people use terms like whinning and crying as it belittles the concerns people have about the course being set by an "industry leader".
This issue is far greater then just a game. To forget about it is to let the industry win - and condemn ourselves to more of the same.
Personally I applaud people who stand up against this no matter how much time goes by. Bad ethics don't come with an expiration date.
I recommend that the OP and anyone who sides with him that we all should stop caring about the NGE and SOE , please lead by example and stop posting here.
Since I can't do that even in a friendly way, without someone stating that I have low intelligence etc... I see no point in continuing this. ... Why fight another battle when you have won the war? That is the question.
Follower of Sun-Tzu,
That is because you made attacks and commands in your opening post. If you wanted a mostly friendly and civil discussion, then you will need to make your postings more, "politically correct," have no attacks and no commands.
The war is not over, and as such there can be no victor declared. As long as SOE (and LA) continue with their current customer service, change control and billing policies, this "war" will continue. SWG is the one that stands out the most, but other titles have their problems of mismanagement as well.
What are those policies? In brief:
- Customer Service Policy: The customer is always wrong, unless there is a known bug with approval from supervisors.
- Change Control Policy: Change Control Policy only applies to within the SOE staff, not with the customers. When changes are made, the customer does not need to know. Again the customer is always wrong.
- Billing Policies: No refunds allowed, with exception only due to legal issues.
"Regard your soldiers as your children, and they will follow you into the deepest valleys.
Look on them as your own beloved sons, and they will stand by you even unto death!"
- Sun Tzu, the Art of War
And that is why...
Conservatives' pessimism is conducive to their happiness in three ways. First, they are rarely surprised -- they are right more often than not about the course of events. Second, when they are wrong they are happy to be so. Third, because pessimistic conservatives put not their faith in princes -- government -- they accept that happiness is a function of fending for oneself. They believe that happiness is an activity -- it is inseparable from the pursuit of happiness.
Its a forum to express interest and again, to champion your cause. The thing to keep in mind is that there are no "PVE forums". Its all PVP and its best to always be prepared for battle.
Indeed.
And that is why...
Conservatives' pessimism is conducive to their happiness in three ways. First, they are rarely surprised -- they are right more often than not about the course of events. Second, when they are wrong they are happy to be so. Third, because pessimistic conservatives put not their faith in princes -- government -- they accept that happiness is a function of fending for oneself. They believe that happiness is an activity -- it is inseparable from the pursuit of happiness.
A thread like this will end up locked because you'll never get anyone to agree to this "get over it" line....
I will tell you why I will never "get over it" .... simple business practices teach us that a negative comment goes farther than a positive one when dealing with customer service....
What happened to SWG was a total lack of business integrity. And if SOE gets away with it, other MMo's will think they can.... so "the line must be drawn here, this far and no farther!"
I have made it my personal effort to make sure anyone even asking about swg knows what happened, and that SOE should never get any money from them.....and ya...i KNOW i've affected at least 20 ppl in the last 3 years....i promise you that we're winning the war...and SOE will NEVER do this again....and neither will any other MMO company.
I am over the game.... but as a business owner, I'm FAR from over it. Such business practices deserve to be made an example of....and I'll kick the horse long after it's dead too.
However, the sheer venom, the completely outrageous statements people make (I believe my favorite was the one that said John Smedley should be jailed), the absolute HATE (yes, HATE) for current SWG players ... all that three years after the fact, is, to be frank, rather pathetic.
I've seen people get over very painful divorces in less time than it has taken some of the people on this board to get over pre-CU.
I disagreed with parts of your posts, but that's just me giving my opinion regarding the method of delivery in the initial post. My opinion and $1.90 will get you a cup o' joe at Starbucks. And, just for the record, you originally accused Demalus of putting words in your mouth, not me. Again, I agree with your sentiment that vets should try a new game and see if they like it. I'm not bashing you, I'm saying you're right, trying a new game, MMO or not, is a good idea and can be healthy for some people. Are we now haggling over the degree to which I agree with you on that point? lol
lol sorry about that sometimes I get too passionate about my views. I probably confused your two posts. I am clearly going crazy over this lol , no sarcasm intended. I also apologize for telling SWG veterans to shut up. But I am tired of hearing your stories over a hundred times. I'm a SWG veteran for crying out loud, I've lived it. I've been through the CU and NGE. I know what you've been through. You guys have got to understand that. You guys have had 3 years to find a game to replace SWG. I am sorry if you haven't found any good mmorpgs. I myself couldn't find one to replace SWG, so I am playing single player games until a good one finally shows up.
You guys really need to read this post. You have clearly been avoiding it. It really states my point of view in a great way. It is not hostile at all unlike my first post. I apologize for my first post it was very blatant. I have apologized for my errors, but I will not withdraw my opinion, just like you guys won't take back yours. I have admitted that I was arrogant. But you guys have got to admit you guys acted the same way. I admire you for your tenacity, even though you will obviously not respect me either way. So if you call me an idiot who dosen't listen to anyones opinion then you are clearly hypocrites. Everybody is willing to defend their opinions to the death, you have no right to attack a person and not his opinion. I apologize, because I didn't abide by that rule, until my last 4 posts. Basicly an example of what happened on this forum is how people bash Al Gore and not Global Warming, just because they don't have a valid argument against it. I'm not saying that all of you don't have valid arguments, but a few of you have verbally attacked me. You don't know who I am, and I don't know who you guys are. Keep the debate going if you wish, but don't attack me, attack my opinion, which you haven't relized was changed a long time back. The post I made yesterday clearly states that I respect you guys. I know what you've been through.( I'm sick and tired of some of you saying I haven't played pre-cu SWG by the way). If I worked for SOE I wouldn't be calling SWG crap. Some of you really need to hear me out, because I've read all your posts, and I actually agree with some of you that have just made negative posts about my opnion. Like how one of you said that I shouldn't have made that sexist comment. I definitely shouldn't have made that comment. I apologized in my first post, but I must apologize again, because I greatly offended many of you. I also apologized for telling you to shut up. Yes I agree with you on that, who am I to be making commands
You can't say that civilization don't advance, however, for in every war they kill you in a new way. -Will Rogers
I disagreed with parts of your posts, but that's just me giving my opinion regarding the method of delivery in the initial post. My opinion and $1.90 will get you a cup o' joe at Starbucks. And, just for the record, you originally accused Demalus of putting words in your mouth, not me. Again, I agree with your sentiment that vets should try a new game and see if they like it. I'm not bashing you, I'm saying you're right, trying a new game, MMO or not, is a good idea and can be healthy for some people. Are we now haggling over the degree to which I agree with you on that point? lol
lol sorry about that sometimes I get too passionate about my views. I probably confused your two posts. I am clearly going crazy over this lol , no sarcasm intended. I also apologize for telling SWG veterans to shut up. But I am tired of hearing your stories over a hundred times. I'm a SWG veteran for crying out loud, I've lived it. I've been through the CU and NGE. I know what you've been through. You guys have got to understand that. You guys have had 3 years to find a game to replace SWG. I am sorry if you haven't found any good mmorpgs. I myself couldn't find one to replace SWG, so I am playing single player games until a good one finally shows up.
You guys really need to read this post. You have clearly been avoiding it. It really states my point of view in a great way. It is not hostile at all unlike my first post. I apologize for my first post it was very blatant. I have apologized for my errors, but I will not withdraw my opinion, just like you guys won't take back yours. I have admitted that I was arrogant. But you guys have got to admit you guys acted the same way. I admire you for your tenacity, even though you will obviously not respect me either way. So if you call me an idiot who dosen't listen to anyones opinion then you are clearly hypocrites. Everybody is willing to defend their opinions to the death, you have no right to attack a person and not his opinion. I apologize, because I didn't abide by that rule, until my last 4 posts. Basicly an example of what happened on this forum is how people bash Al Gore and not Global Warming, just because they don't have a valid argument against it. I'm not saying that all of you don't have valid arguments, but a few of you have verbally attacked me. You don't know who I am, and I don't know who you guys are. Keep the debate going if you wish, but don't attack me, attack my opinion, which you haven't relized was changed a long time back. The post I made yesterday clearly states that I respect you guys. I know what you've been through.( I'm sick and tired of some of you saying I haven't played pre-cu SWG by the way). If I worked for SOE I wouldn't be calling SWG crap. Some of you really need to hear me out, because I've read all your posts, and I actually agree with some of you that have just made negative posts about my opnion. Like how one of you said that I shouldn't have made that sexist comment. I definitely shouldn't have made that comment. I apologized in my first post, but I must apologize again, because I greatly offended many of you. I also apologized for telling you to shut up. Yes I agree with you on that, who am I to be making commands
Humble acknowledgement of offensive behavior is a welcome sign of maturity. Thank you for that. I've ranted occasionally myself; as much as I try to communicate reasonably, sometimes my emotions get the better of me.
Thank you for that. Are you calling my entire argument a rant though? I didn't apologize to state that I was defeated and everyone against me was right. I was just saying that I didn't state my opinion originally like I should have. Either way though people would have bashed me anyway.
You can't say that civilization don't advance, however, for in every war they kill you in a new way. -Will Rogers
Thank you for that. Are you calling my entire argument a rant though? I didn't apologize to state that I was defeated and everyone against me was right. I was just saying that I didn't state my opinion originally like I should have. Either way though people would have bashed me anyway.
Nope, not calling your entire argument a rant. Just making a confession related to some of my own posts in the past. I think a lot of us have failed to choose our words carefully from time to time in the heat of the moment.
Also, I think the point about holding grudges is a good one. Nurturing resentment can have some nasty side effects. Encouraging people to revinvest in something they enjoy also sounds like a fine suggestion.
Where I respectfully see things differently is that ongoing posts are not all related to resentment or a failure to find something else that's enjoyable. I see many as well intentioned consumer advocacy. Granted some people won't appreciate that, but I think many gamers will.
However, the sheer venom, the completely outrageous statements people make (I believe my favorite was the one that said John Smedley should be jailed), the absolute HATE (yes, HATE) for current SWG players ... all that three years after the fact, is, to be frank, rather pathetic.
I've seen people get over very painful divorces in less time than it has taken some of the people on this board to get over pre-CU.
Ding Ding Ding...winner
Well tbh I know one guy who thinks Smed should be jailed, but that thinking isn't motivated by hate. He really just thinks the guy committed fraud on a fairly massive scale, and should be held accountable for that.
Also, saying that this is all about something that happened 3 years ago is misleading. If you look at a number of threads on these boards, you'll notice that people highlight what appears to be a longstanding pattern of poor customer relations.
Further, I don't know that people feel hatred for current SWG players. I know I certainly don't, as some of them are my friends. I do know, however, that it is very divisive when you take something from one group, redesign it and give it to another. I'm aware that players didn't do this. Rather this whole target audience conflict was sparked by the actions SOE and LEC.
Possible solutions to mend this rift have been put forward to SOE and LEC, but they have not been implemented, sadly.
However, the sheer venom, the completely outrageous statements people make (I believe my favorite was the one that said John Smedley should be jailed), the absolute HATE (yes, HATE) for current SWG players ... all that three years after the fact, is, to be frank, rather pathetic.
I've seen people get over very painful divorces in less time than it has taken some of the people on this board to get over pre-CU.
Ding Ding Ding...winner
Well tbh I know one guy who thinks Smed should be jailed, but that thinking isn't motivated by hate. He really just thinks the guy committed fraud on a fairly massive scale, and should be held accountable for that.
Also, saying that this is all about something that happened 3 years ago is misleading. If you look at a number of threads on these boards, you'll notice that people highlight what appears to be a longstanding pattern of poor customer relations.
Further, I don't know that people feel hatred for current SWG players. I know I certainly don't, as some of them are my friends. I do know, however, that it is very divisive when you take something from one group, redesign it and give it to another. I'm aware that players didn't do this. Rather this whole target audience conflict was sparked by the actions SOE and LEC.
Possible solutions to mend this rift have been put forward to SOE and LEC, but they have not been implemented, sadly.
Very well said. But the reason I said it was something that happened three years ago, is because it is a game. Games are games, they shouldn't be taking so seriously. The argument against the NGE is really getting out of hand. Just like how there were some real life murders by players in Lineage 2 clans. You may think these threats against SOE employers are all jokes. But you will be surprised how crazy some people let themselves become over a game(ex. The Lineage 2 incidents). You should be angry about the NGE, I'm not telling you not to be, but don't let it make you a mindless person that just wants to destroy SOE and SWG. Control your anger, and be open to other viewpoints. And don't have blind devotion to something.
Thankfully the poster above stated his opinion clearly and well. The only thing I'd have to disagree on is the highlights on poor customer relations by SOE. If you hate SOE don't buy anything from them, that's how you can stop them. You don't have to try to destroy them, they are destroying themselves. Don't talk to them, and watch them fall.
You can't say that civilization don't advance, however, for in every war they kill you in a new way. -Will Rogers
Thank you for that. Are you calling my entire argument a rant though? I didn't apologize to state that I was defeated and everyone against me was right. I was just saying that I didn't state my opinion originally like I should have. Either way though people would have bashed me anyway.
Nope, not calling your entire argument a rant. Just making a confession related to some of my own posts in the past. I think a lot of us have failed to choose our words carefully from time to time in the heat of the moment.
Also, I think the point about holding grudges is a good one. Nurturing resentment can have some nasty side effects. Encouraging people to revinvest in something they enjoy also sounds like a fine suggestion.
Where I respectfully see things differently is that ongoing posts are not all related to resentment or a failure to find something else that's enjoyable. I see many as well intentioned consumer advocacy. Granted some people won't appreciate that, but I think many gamers will.
, gamers appreciate reviews by previous customers. I just think they could write those reviews a little better. I mean come on now, have you read a single review of SWG that dosen't call SOE evil? A better way to state why the game is bad is to list how things were before, and how they are now. Saying SOE is evil makes people sound like lunatics. I'm sorry, but I can't take someone who calls a company evil seriously. You could just say that SOE is a bad company.
Or you could say one simple statement to those who want to know what SWG is like. " There were major changes in the game, and now it is bad". Very simple and to the point. There is no need to call anybody evil or say that you want to kill someone etc...
You can't say that civilization don't advance, however, for in every war they kill you in a new way. -Will Rogers
However, the sheer venom, the completely outrageous statements people make (I believe my favorite was the one that said John Smedley should be jailed), the absolute HATE (yes, HATE) for current SWG players ... all that three years after the fact, is, to be frank, rather pathetic.
I've seen people get over very painful divorces in less time than it has taken some of the people on this board to get over pre-CU.
Ding Ding Ding...winner
Well tbh I know one guy who thinks Smed should be jailed, but that thinking isn't motivated by hate. He really just thinks the guy committed fraud on a fairly massive scale, and should be held accountable for that.
Also, saying that this is all about something that happened 3 years ago is misleading. If you look at a number of threads on these boards, you'll notice that people highlight what appears to be a longstanding pattern of poor customer relations.
Further, I don't know that people feel hatred for current SWG players. I know I certainly don't, as some of them are my friends. I do know, however, that it is very divisive when you take something from one group, redesign it and give it to another. I'm aware that players didn't do this. Rather this whole target audience conflict was sparked by the actions SOE and LEC.
Possible solutions to mend this rift have been put forward to SOE and LEC, but they have not been implemented, sadly.
Very well said. But the reason I said it was something that happened three years ago, is because it is a game. Games are games, they shouldn't be taking so seriously. The argument against the NGE is really getting out of hand. Just like how there were some real life murders by players in Lineage 2 clans. You may think these threats against SOE employers are all jokes. But you will be surprised how crazy some people let themselves become over a game(ex. The Lineage 2 incidents). You should be angry about the NGE, I'm not telling you not to be, but don't let it make you a mindless person that just wants to destroy SOE and SWG. Control your anger, and be open to other viewpoints. And don't have blind devotion to something.
Thankfully the poster above stated his opinion clearly and well. The only thing I'd have to disagree on is the highlights on poor customer relations by SOE. If you hate SOE don't buy anything from them, that's how you can stop them. You don't have to try to destroy them, they are destroying themselves. Don't talk to them, and watch them fall.
I think there's something to the idea, "don't talk to them, and watch them fall." Talking to them really just adds to the frustration in my experience. I tried open and respectful communication for months, and it got me nowhere. Well it got my posts moved, deleted, locked etc.
Also, if people are really convinced that an injustice took place, certainly taking the personal vengeance route can only end in tears. I have posted another thread that explains where people can take their complaints to authorities who are listening, and have the power to intervene if the right conditions are met. These would not be complaints about a lost video game, however, they would be about money taken via misleading marketting (i.e. fraud allegations).
Originally posted by ThaneB Originally posted by ArcAngel3 Originally posted by hipiap Originally posted by kobie173
That's not what he's saying at all. However, the sheer venom, the completely outrageous statements people make (I believe my favorite was the one that said John Smedley should be jailed), the absolute HATE (yes, HATE) for current SWG players ... all that three years after the fact, is, to be frank, rather pathetic.
I've seen people get over very painful divorces in less time than it has taken some of the people on this board to get over pre-CU.
Ding Ding Ding...winner Well tbh I know one guy who thinks Smed should be jailed, but that thinking isn't motivated by hate. He really just thinks the guy committed fraud on a fairly massive scale, and should be held accountable for that.
Also, saying that this is all about something that happened 3 years ago is misleading. If you look at a number of threads on these boards, you'll notice that people highlight what appears to be a longstanding pattern of poor customer relations. Further, I don't know that people feel hatred for current SWG players. I know I certainly don't, as some of them are my friends. I do know, however, that it is very divisive when you take something from one group, redesign it and give it to another. I'm aware that players didn't do this. Rather this whole target audience conflict was sparked by the actions SOE and LEC. Possible solutions to mend this rift have been put forward to SOE and LEC, but they have not been implemented, sadly. Very well said. But the reason I said it was something that happened three years ago, is because it is a game. Games are games, they shouldn't be taking so seriously. The argument against the NGE is really getting out of hand. Just like how there were some real life murders by players in Lineage 2 clans. You may think these threats against SOE employers are all jokes. But you will be surprised how crazy some people let themselves become over a game(ex. The Lineage 2 incidents). You should be angry about the NGE, I'm not telling you not to be, but don't let it make you a mindless person that just wants to destroy SOE and SWG. Control your anger, and be open to other viewpoints. And don't have blind devotion to something. Thankfully the poster above stated his opinion clearly and well. The only thing I'd have to disagree on is the highlights on poor customer relations by SOE. If you hate SOE don't buy anything from them, that's how you can stop them. You don't have to try to destroy them, they are destroying themselves. Don't talk to them, and watch them fall.
When games become multi million dollar businesses, they become quite serious. Many peolle's livelihoods depend on them, many fortunes are won and lost over them; that's all fairly serious.
If you sit around your dining room table, playing the SW RPG by west end, and you mess up and annoy your players, THAT's just a game.
This is serious business.
Even still people here ARE treating it like it's a game; had a man like Smedley destroyed people's real property in the real world the way he destroyed people's virtual property in a virtual word, people whould have gone to real physical war over it; societies have collapsed over less, when it's been real.
All we are seeing in response to what SOE did here is a bunch of people generating negative viral marketing on the internet. That is a perfectly proportional response to the issues at hand.
In fact, since real world fraud may have been perpetrated here, a bunch of folks chatting on the internet over this issue is relatively tame compared with what MIGHT have been.
Originally posted by ThaneB Originally posted by ArcAngel3 Originally posted by ThaneB Thank you for that. Are you calling my entire argument a rant though? I didn't apologize to state that I was defeated and everyone against me was right. I was just saying that I didn't state my opinion originally like I should have. Either way though people would have bashed me anyway.
Nope, not calling your entire argument a rant. Just making a confession related to some of my own posts in the past. I think a lot of us have failed to choose our words carefully from time to time in the heat of the moment. Also, I think the point about holding grudges is a good one. Nurturing resentment can have some nasty side effects. Encouraging people to revinvest in something they enjoy also sounds like a fine suggestion. Where I respectfully see things differently is that ongoing posts are not all related to resentment or a failure to find something else that's enjoyable. I see many as well intentioned consumer advocacy. Granted some people won't appreciate that, but I think many gamers will. , gamers appreciate reviews by previous customers. I just think they could write those reviews a little better. I mean come on now, have you read a single review of SWG that dosen't call SOE evil? A better way to state why the game is bad is to list how things were before, and how they are now. Saying SOE is evil makes people sound like lunatics. I'm sorry, but I can't take someone who calls a company evil seriously. You could just say that SOE is a bad company. Or you could say one simple statement to those who want to know what SWG is like. " There were major changes in the game, and now it is bad". Very simple and to the point. There is no need to call anybody evil or say that you want to kill someone etc...
Lying and cheating people IS evil; no it's not bigtime Hitler eveil, but it is certainly evil. Why do you seek to control the speech of others in this way? Why not let people say what they wish?
If you can't handle it, then the internet is really the wrong place for you.
Now, who has said that they REALLy want to kill anyone over this, and meant it? I'd like to see that post.
However, the sheer venom, the completely outrageous statements people make (I believe my favorite was the one that said John Smedley should be jailed), the absolute HATE (yes, HATE) for current SWG players ... all that three years after the fact, is, to be frank, rather pathetic.
I've seen people get over very painful divorces in less time than it has taken some of the people on this board to get over pre-CU.
Ding Ding Ding...winner
Well tbh I know one guy who thinks Smed should be jailed, but that thinking isn't motivated by hate. He really just thinks the guy committed fraud on a fairly massive scale, and should be held accountable for that.
Also, saying that this is all about something that happened 3 years ago is misleading. If you look at a number of threads on these boards, you'll notice that people highlight what appears to be a longstanding pattern of poor customer relations.
Further, I don't know that people feel hatred for current SWG players. I know I certainly don't, as some of them are my friends. I do know, however, that it is very divisive when you take something from one group, redesign it and give it to another. I'm aware that players didn't do this. Rather this whole target audience conflict was sparked by the actions SOE and LEC.
Possible solutions to mend this rift have been put forward to SOE and LEC, but they have not been implemented, sadly.
Very well said. But the reason I said it was something that happened three years ago, is because it is a game. Games are games, they shouldn't be taking so seriously. The argument against the NGE is really getting out of hand. Just like how there were some real life murders by players in Lineage 2 clans. You may think these threats against SOE employers are all jokes. But you will be surprised how crazy some people let themselves become over a game(ex. The Lineage 2 incidents). You should be angry about the NGE, I'm not telling you not to be, but don't let it make you a mindless person that just wants to destroy SOE and SWG. Control your anger, and be open to other viewpoints. And don't have blind devotion to something.
Thankfully the poster above stated his opinion clearly and well. The only thing I'd have to disagree on is the highlights on poor customer relations by SOE. If you hate SOE don't buy anything from them, that's how you can stop them. You don't have to try to destroy them, they are destroying themselves. Don't talk to them, and watch them fall.
I think there's something to the idea, "don't talk to them, and watch them fall." Talking to them really just adds to the frustration in my experience. I tried open and respectful communication for months, and it got me nowhere. Well it got my posts moved, deleted, locked etc.
Also, if people are really convinced that an injustice took place, certainly taking the personal vengeance route can only end in tears. I have posted another thread that explains where people can take their complaints to authorities who are listening, and have the power to intervene if the right conditions are met. These would not be complaints about a lost video game, however, they would be about money taken via misleading marketting (i.e. fraud allegations).
SOE ruined a great game, but talking to them won't make them change their minds. I mean it's been three years, if they were going to change their minds, they would of done it a few years back when SWG subscriber numbers were starting to diminish. The problem with taking to this to authorities is that mmorpgs are dynamic. They are supposed to always change and be a living world. So you can't you really say that SOE made too many changes, so we deserve our money back.
You can't say that civilization don't advance, however, for in every war they kill you in a new way. -Will Rogers
Originally posted by ThaneB Originally posted by ArcAngel3 Originally posted by ThaneB Originally posted by ArcAngel3 Originally posted by hipiap Originally posted by kobie173
That's not what he's saying at all. However, the sheer venom, the completely outrageous statements people make (I believe my favorite was the one that said John Smedley should be jailed), the absolute HATE (yes, HATE) for current SWG players ... all that three years after the fact, is, to be frank, rather pathetic.
I've seen people get over very painful divorces in less time than it has taken some of the people on this board to get over pre-CU.
Ding Ding Ding...winner Well tbh I know one guy who thinks Smed should be jailed, but that thinking isn't motivated by hate. He really just thinks the guy committed fraud on a fairly massive scale, and should be held accountable for that.
Also, saying that this is all about something that happened 3 years ago is misleading. If you look at a number of threads on these boards, you'll notice that people highlight what appears to be a longstanding pattern of poor customer relations. Further, I don't know that people feel hatred for current SWG players. I know I certainly don't, as some of them are my friends. I do know, however, that it is very divisive when you take something from one group, redesign it and give it to another. I'm aware that players didn't do this. Rather this whole target audience conflict was sparked by the actions SOE and LEC. Possible solutions to mend this rift have been put forward to SOE and LEC, but they have not been implemented, sadly.
Very well said. But the reason I said it was something that happened three years ago, is because it is a game. Games are games, they shouldn't be taking so seriously. The argument against the NGE is really getting out of hand. Just like how there were some real life murders by players in Lineage 2 clans. You may think these threats against SOE employers are all jokes. But you will be surprised how crazy some people let themselves become over a game(ex. The Lineage 2 incidents). You should be angry about the NGE, I'm not telling you not to be, but don't let it make you a mindless person that just wants to destroy SOE and SWG. Control your anger, and be open to other viewpoints. And don't have blind devotion to something. Thankfully the poster above stated his opinion clearly and well. The only thing I'd have to disagree on is the highlights on poor customer relations by SOE. If you hate SOE don't buy anything from them, that's how you can stop them. You don't have to try to destroy them, they are destroying themselves. Don't talk to them, and watch them fall. I think there's something to the idea, "don't talk to them, and watch them fall." Talking to them really just adds to the frustration in my experience. I tried open and respectful communication for months, and it got me nowhere. Well it got my posts moved, deleted, locked etc.
Also, if people are really convinced that an injustice took place, certainly taking the personal vengeance route can only end in tears. I have posted another thread that explains where people can take their complaints to authorities who are listening, and have the power to intervene if the right conditions are met. These would not be complaints about a lost video game, however, they would be about money taken via misleading marketting (i.e. fraud allegations). SOE ruined a great game, but talking to them won't make them change their minds. I mean it's been three years, if they were going to change their minds, they would of done it a few years back when SWG subscriber numbers were starting to diminish. The problem with taking to this to authorities is that mmorpgs are dynamic. They are supposed to always change and be a living world. So you can't you really say that SOE made too many changes, so we deserve our money back.
Actually you CAN argue that; such changes are only allowed, in that the EULA agreement is a non-negotiated contract between partis, only to what would be a reasonable person standard. If the actions of SOE went beyond a reasonable person's standard, then they went beyond what is legal.
That would be up to the authorities and the courts to decide over time; this is a VERY new area of law. We shall see. Regulation is often the result of abuse such as we have seen here.
Thank you for that. Are you calling my entire argument a rant though? I didn't apologize to state that I was defeated and everyone against me was right. I was just saying that I didn't state my opinion originally like I should have. Either way though people would have bashed me anyway.
Nope, not calling your entire argument a rant. Just making a confession related to some of my own posts in the past. I think a lot of us have failed to choose our words carefully from time to time in the heat of the moment.
Also, I think the point about holding grudges is a good one. Nurturing resentment can have some nasty side effects. Encouraging people to revinvest in something they enjoy also sounds like a fine suggestion.
Where I respectfully see things differently is that ongoing posts are not all related to resentment or a failure to find something else that's enjoyable. I see many as well intentioned consumer advocacy. Granted some people won't appreciate that, but I think many gamers will.
, gamers appreciate reviews by previous customers. I just think they could write those reviews a little better. I mean come on now, have you read a single review of SWG that dosen't call SOE evil? A better way to state why the game is bad is to list how things were before, and how they are now. Saying SOE is evil makes people sound like lunatics. I'm sorry, but I can't take someone who calls a company evil seriously. You could just say that SOE is a bad company.
Or you could say one simple statement to those who want to know what SWG is like. " There were major changes in the game, and now it is bad". Very simple and to the point. There is no need to call anybody evil or say that you want to kill someone etc...
Lying and cheating people IS evil; no it's not bigtime Hitler eveil, but it is certainly evil. Why do you seek to control the speech of others in this way? Why not let people say what they wish?
If you can't handle it, then the internet is really the wrong place for you.
Now, who has said that they REALLy want to kill anyone over this, and meant it? I'd like to see that post.
Where did you come from?. I sense a I'd advise you to first look up the word evil . Next lose that attitude. After that become literate so you can read my post properly. I didn't say that people acutally meant that they wanted to kill someone over this. But murders have happened over video-games before, and this argument against the NGE and SOE is getting out of of hand.
You can't say that civilization don't advance, however, for in every war they kill you in a new way. -Will Rogers
However, the sheer venom, the completely outrageous statements people make (I believe my favorite was the one that said John Smedley should be jailed), the absolute HATE (yes, HATE) for current SWG players ... all that three years after the fact, is, to be frank, rather pathetic.
I've seen people get over very painful divorces in less time than it has taken some of the people on this board to get over pre-CU.
Ding Ding Ding...winner
Well tbh I know one guy who thinks Smed should be jailed, but that thinking isn't motivated by hate. He really just thinks the guy committed fraud on a fairly massive scale, and should be held accountable for that.
Also, saying that this is all about something that happened 3 years ago is misleading. If you look at a number of threads on these boards, you'll notice that people highlight what appears to be a longstanding pattern of poor customer relations.
Further, I don't know that people feel hatred for current SWG players. I know I certainly don't, as some of them are my friends. I do know, however, that it is very divisive when you take something from one group, redesign it and give it to another. I'm aware that players didn't do this. Rather this whole target audience conflict was sparked by the actions SOE and LEC.
Possible solutions to mend this rift have been put forward to SOE and LEC, but they have not been implemented, sadly.
Very well said. But the reason I said it was something that happened three years ago, is because it is a game. Games are games, they shouldn't be taking so seriously. The argument against the NGE is really getting out of hand. Just like how there were some real life murders by players in Lineage 2 clans. You may think these threats against SOE employers are all jokes. But you will be surprised how crazy some people let themselves become over a game(ex. The Lineage 2 incidents). You should be angry about the NGE, I'm not telling you not to be, but don't let it make you a mindless person that just wants to destroy SOE and SWG. Control your anger, and be open to other viewpoints. And don't have blind devotion to something.
Thankfully the poster above stated his opinion clearly and well. The only thing I'd have to disagree on is the highlights on poor customer relations by SOE. If you hate SOE don't buy anything from them, that's how you can stop them. You don't have to try to destroy them, they are destroying themselves. Don't talk to them, and watch them fall.
I think there's something to the idea, "don't talk to them, and watch them fall." Talking to them really just adds to the frustration in my experience. I tried open and respectful communication for months, and it got me nowhere. Well it got my posts moved, deleted, locked etc.
Also, if people are really convinced that an injustice took place, certainly taking the personal vengeance route can only end in tears. I have posted another thread that explains where people can take their complaints to authorities who are listening, and have the power to intervene if the right conditions are met. These would not be complaints about a lost video game, however, they would be about money taken via misleading marketting (i.e. fraud allegations).
SOE ruined a great game, but talking to them won't make them change their minds. I mean it's been three years, if they were going to change their minds, they would of done it a few years back when SWG subscriber numbers were starting to diminish. The problem with taking to this to authorities is that mmorpgs are dynamic. They are supposed to always change and be a living world. So you can't you really say that SOE made too many changes, so we deserve our money back.
Actually you CAN argue that; such changes are only allowed, in that the EULA agreement is a non-negotiated contract between partis, only to what would be a reasonable person standard. If the actions of SOE went beyond a reasonable person's standard, then they went beyond what is legal.
That would be up to the authorities and the courts to decide over time; this is a VERY new area of law. We shall see. Regulation is often the result of abuse such as we have seen here.
Fair enough, please if your information is correct try to take this up with the authorities( no sarcasm). There's no need to post on the forums, if what you say is true.
You can't say that civilization don't advance, however, for in every war they kill you in a new way. -Will Rogers
Originally posted by ThaneB Originally posted by Fishermage
Originally posted by ThaneB
Originally posted by ArcAngel3
Originally posted by ThaneB
Thank you for that. Are you calling my entire argument a rant though? I didn't apologize to state that I was defeated and everyone against me was right. I was just saying that I didn't state my opinion originally like I should have. Either way though people would have bashed me anyway.
Nope, not calling your entire argument a rant. Just making a confession related to some of my own posts in the past. I think a lot of us have failed to choose our words carefully from time to time in the heat of the moment. Also, I think the point about holding grudges is a good one. Nurturing resentment can have some nasty side effects. Encouraging people to revinvest in something they enjoy also sounds like a fine suggestion. Where I respectfully see things differently is that ongoing posts are not all related to resentment or a failure to find something else that's enjoyable. I see many as well intentioned consumer advocacy. Granted some people won't appreciate that, but I think many gamers will. , gamers appreciate reviews by previous customers. I just think they could write those reviews a little better. I mean come on now, have you read a single review of SWG that dosen't call SOE evil? A better way to state why the game is bad is to list how things were before, and how they are now. Saying SOE is evil makes people sound like lunatics. I'm sorry, but I can't take someone who calls a company evil seriously. You could just say that SOE is a bad company. Or you could say one simple statement to those who want to know what SWG is like. " There were major changes in the game, and now it is bad". Very simple and to the point. There is no need to call anybody evil or say that you want to kill someone etc...
Lying and cheating people IS evil; no it's not bigtime Hitler eveil, but it is certainly evil. Why do you seek to control the speech of others in this way? Why not let people say what they wish? If you can't handle it, then the internet is really the wrong place for you. Now, who has said that they REALLy want to kill anyone over this, and meant it? I'd like to see that post.
Where did you come from?. I sense a I'd advise you to first look up the word evil . Next lose that attitude. After that become literate so you can read my post properly. I didn't say that people acutally meant that they wanted to kill someone over this. But murders have happened over video-games before, and this argument against the NGE and SOE is getting out of of hand.
Evil is not something one can LOOK UP -- it has been debated as long as man has been around. If you don't feel lying is evil, and cheating people is evil, you afre entitled to that moral view. We'll have to agree to disagree. I personaly believe that any willful violation of anyone else is evil, and there are degrees of evil, murder is worse than armed robbery, armed robbery is worse than burglary, burglary is worse than cheating, and cheating is worse than lying -- but all are forms of what we call evil.
I've been here all along; thanks for the personal attacks. How about actually dealing with what I have said. I never troll. The only trolling I see here is coming from you, starting with your OP.
Who are YOU to determine when a discussion is out of hand? Again, it seems you have a definite problem with the opinions of others. I suggest you leave the internet at once -- it was designed for peope to actually DISCUSS things.
Comments
The reason I think people continue on is that SOE made it personal. It was virtual land to be sure, but still...when you kick people off their land and break up communities, it's personal. And when you tell your paying customers, F U we don't want YOUR business, it's personal. So most of us have moved on now, but we carry the torch and we will not forget, because Smed and his team made it personal.
Maybe the OP should move on. Why even come to the Veteran Refuge if he doesn't want refuge.
Very true I did fail, which is why I no longer fight. So just as how I have no power over SWG, I have no power over your opinions. I am sorry if I stirred up any trouble, i just wanted to get my opinion on this board. Since I can't do that even in a friendly way, without someone stating that I have low intelligence etc... I see no point in continuing this. You obviously only want to hear one thing. SWG should die and SOE should go with it. By the way SWG is already dead. Your beating a dead horse congratulations.
Why fight another battle when you have won the war? That is the question.
You can't say that civilization don't advance, however, for in every war they kill you in a new way.
-Will Rogers
two major points you are missing. What you've stated is just an opinion, and you don't speak for anyone but yourself.
get it? ok, you can get over us not getting over it now.
And in the end, really, this whole thing is bigger than just one of us. It can't be resolved by a single post or a single person for that matter (unless you happen to be married to Jessica Alba and in that case, you wouldn't be here). Th fact is that there are only two possible ways for it to be resolved. Resolution, in my single personal opinion being that the angry vet's bloodthirst is satisfied.
1. SOE apologizes and honestly addresses their past actions in a direct and open dialogue. Will this bring the game back? Nope. But it will shed light on what many of us has been ridiculed for claiming as fact. It may in some ways prove parts of our accusations wrong but it will be give and take as long as its honest and direct. Sony thought time would erase some of the anger and to their surprise and the the industry's note - it does not. Not when handled like it was and then later treated like it is. Will the angry vets return to the NGE? Nope but I think the anger will trickle down to a lesser number.
or
2. Someone else will release a Star Wars MMO. The angry vets will give it a try (depending on how it is laid out) and play it. They will still hate SOE for their actions but their hearts and minds will be somewhere else. Those who want blood will rejoice in the inevitable collapse or closing for SWG be it in a few months or in 2030.
In the meantime, both sides here and elsewhere will continue to champion their cause. Some will jump sides, others on both sides will find other causes. Its a forum to express interest and again, to champion your cause. The thing to keep in mind is that there are no "PVE forums". Its all PVP and its best to always be prepared for battle.
Ain't that the truth!
And it disturbs me to see people use terms like whinning and crying as it belittles the concerns people have about the course being set by an "industry leader".
This issue is far greater then just a game. To forget about it is to let the industry win - and condemn ourselves to more of the same.
Personally I applaud people who stand up against this no matter how much time goes by. Bad ethics don't come with an expiration date.
I recommend that the OP and anyone who sides with him that we all should stop caring about the NGE and SOE , please lead by example and stop posting here.
Unaware of the Jestor?
http://about.me/JestorRodo/
Friends enjoy his classic Vblog - https://www.facebook.com/GoodOldReliableNathan
Follower of Sun-Tzu,
That is because you made attacks and commands in your opening post. If you wanted a mostly friendly and civil discussion, then you will need to make your postings more, "politically correct," have no attacks and no commands.
The war is not over, and as such there can be no victor declared. As long as SOE (and LA) continue with their current customer service, change control and billing policies, this "war" will continue. SWG is the one that stands out the most, but other titles have their problems of mismanagement as well.
What are those policies? In brief:
- Customer Service Policy: The customer is always wrong, unless there is a known bug with approval from supervisors.
- Change Control Policy: Change Control Policy only applies to within the SOE staff, not with the customers. When changes are made, the customer does not need to know. Again the customer is always wrong.
- Billing Policies: No refunds allowed, with exception only due to legal issues.
"Regard your soldiers as your children, and they will follow you into the deepest valleys.
Look on them as your own beloved sons, and they will stand by you even unto death!"
- Sun Tzu, the Art of War
And that is why...
Conservatives' pessimism is conducive to their happiness in three ways. First, they are rarely surprised -- they are right more often than not about the course of events. Second, when they are wrong they are happy to be so. Third, because pessimistic conservatives put not their faith in princes -- government -- they accept that happiness is a function of fending for oneself. They believe that happiness is an activity -- it is inseparable from the pursuit of happiness.
And that is why...
Conservatives' pessimism is conducive to their happiness in three ways. First, they are rarely surprised -- they are right more often than not about the course of events. Second, when they are wrong they are happy to be so. Third, because pessimistic conservatives put not their faith in princes -- government -- they accept that happiness is a function of fending for oneself. They believe that happiness is an activity -- it is inseparable from the pursuit of happiness.
A thread like this will end up locked because you'll never get anyone to agree to this "get over it" line....
I will tell you why I will never "get over it" .... simple business practices teach us that a negative comment goes farther than a positive one when dealing with customer service....
What happened to SWG was a total lack of business integrity. And if SOE gets away with it, other MMo's will think they can.... so "the line must be drawn here, this far and no farther!"
I have made it my personal effort to make sure anyone even asking about swg knows what happened, and that SOE should never get any money from them.....and ya...i KNOW i've affected at least 20 ppl in the last 3 years....i promise you that we're winning the war...and SOE will NEVER do this again....and neither will any other MMO company.
I am over the game.... but as a business owner, I'm FAR from over it. Such business practices deserve to be made an example of....and I'll kick the horse long after it's dead too.
Faxx...once of Bria.
However, the sheer venom, the completely outrageous statements people make (I believe my favorite was the one that said John Smedley should be jailed), the absolute HATE (yes, HATE) for current SWG players ... all that three years after the fact, is, to be frank, rather pathetic.
I've seen people get over very painful divorces in less time than it has taken some of the people on this board to get over pre-CU.
Ding Ding Ding...winner
MMO History: 2528 days in SW:G
lol sorry about that sometimes I get too passionate about my views. I probably confused your two posts. I am clearly going crazy over this lol
, no sarcasm intended. I also apologize for telling SWG veterans to shut up. But I am tired of hearing your stories over a hundred times. I'm a SWG veteran for crying out loud, I've lived it. I've been through the CU and NGE. I know what you've been through. You guys have got to understand that. You guys have had 3 years to find a game to replace SWG. I am sorry if you haven't found any good mmorpgs. I myself couldn't find one to replace SWG, so I am playing single player games until a good one finally shows up.
You guys really need to read this post. You have clearly been avoiding it. It really states my point of view in a great way. It is not hostile at all unlike my first post. I apologize for my first post it was very blatant. I have apologized for my errors, but I will not withdraw my opinion, just like you guys won't take back yours. I have admitted that I was arrogant. But you guys have got to admit you guys acted the same way. I admire you for your tenacity, even though you will obviously not respect me either way. So if you call me an idiot who dosen't listen to anyones opinion then you are clearly hypocrites. Everybody is willing to defend their opinions to the death, you have no right to attack a person and not his opinion. I apologize, because I didn't abide by that rule, until my last 4 posts. Basicly an example of what happened on this forum is how people bash Al Gore and not Global Warming, just because they don't have a valid argument against it. I'm not saying that all of you don't have valid arguments, but a few of you have verbally attacked me. You don't know who I am, and I don't know who you guys are. Keep the debate going if you wish, but don't attack me, attack my opinion, which you haven't relized was changed a long time back. The post I made yesterday clearly states that I respect you guys. I know what you've been through.( I'm sick and tired of some of you saying I haven't played pre-cu SWG by the way). If I worked for SOE I wouldn't be calling SWG crap. Some of you really need to hear me out, because I've read all your posts, and I actually agree with some of you that have just made negative posts about my opnion. Like how one of you said that I shouldn't have made that sexist comment. I definitely shouldn't have made that comment. I apologized in my first post, but I must apologize again, because I greatly offended many of you. I also apologized for telling you to shut up. Yes I agree with you on that, who am I to be making commands
You can't say that civilization don't advance, however, for in every war they kill you in a new way.
-Will Rogers
lol sorry about that sometimes I get too passionate about my views. I probably confused your two posts. I am clearly going crazy over this lol
, no sarcasm intended. I also apologize for telling SWG veterans to shut up. But I am tired of hearing your stories over a hundred times. I'm a SWG veteran for crying out loud, I've lived it. I've been through the CU and NGE. I know what you've been through. You guys have got to understand that. You guys have had 3 years to find a game to replace SWG. I am sorry if you haven't found any good mmorpgs. I myself couldn't find one to replace SWG, so I am playing single player games until a good one finally shows up.
You guys really need to read this post. You have clearly been avoiding it. It really states my point of view in a great way. It is not hostile at all unlike my first post. I apologize for my first post it was very blatant. I have apologized for my errors, but I will not withdraw my opinion, just like you guys won't take back yours. I have admitted that I was arrogant. But you guys have got to admit you guys acted the same way. I admire you for your tenacity, even though you will obviously not respect me either way. So if you call me an idiot who dosen't listen to anyones opinion then you are clearly hypocrites. Everybody is willing to defend their opinions to the death, you have no right to attack a person and not his opinion. I apologize, because I didn't abide by that rule, until my last 4 posts. Basicly an example of what happened on this forum is how people bash Al Gore and not Global Warming, just because they don't have a valid argument against it. I'm not saying that all of you don't have valid arguments, but a few of you have verbally attacked me. You don't know who I am, and I don't know who you guys are. Keep the debate going if you wish, but don't attack me, attack my opinion, which you haven't relized was changed a long time back. The post I made yesterday clearly states that I respect you guys. I know what you've been through.( I'm sick and tired of some of you saying I haven't played pre-cu SWG by the way). If I worked for SOE I wouldn't be calling SWG crap. Some of you really need to hear me out, because I've read all your posts, and I actually agree with some of you that have just made negative posts about my opnion. Like how one of you said that I shouldn't have made that sexist comment. I definitely shouldn't have made that comment. I apologized in my first post, but I must apologize again, because I greatly offended many of you. I also apologized for telling you to shut up. Yes I agree with you on that, who am I to be making commands
Humble acknowledgement of offensive behavior is a welcome sign of maturity. Thank you for that. I've ranted occasionally myself; as much as I try to communicate reasonably, sometimes my emotions get the better of me.
Thank you for that. Are you calling my entire argument a rant though? I didn't apologize to state that I was defeated and everyone against me was right. I was just saying that I didn't state my opinion originally like I should have. Either way though people would have bashed me anyway.
You can't say that civilization don't advance, however, for in every war they kill you in a new way.
-Will Rogers
Nope, not calling your entire argument a rant. Just making a confession related to some of my own posts in the past. I think a lot of us have failed to choose our words carefully from time to time in the heat of the moment.
Also, I think the point about holding grudges is a good one. Nurturing resentment can have some nasty side effects. Encouraging people to revinvest in something they enjoy also sounds like a fine suggestion.
Where I respectfully see things differently is that ongoing posts are not all related to resentment or a failure to find something else that's enjoyable. I see many as well intentioned consumer advocacy. Granted some people won't appreciate that, but I think many gamers will.
That's not what he's saying at all.However, the sheer venom, the completely outrageous statements people make (I believe my favorite was the one that said John Smedley should be jailed), the absolute HATE (yes, HATE) for current SWG players ... all that three years after the fact, is, to be frank, rather pathetic.
I've seen people get over very painful divorces in less time than it has taken some of the people on this board to get over pre-CU.
Ding Ding Ding...winner
Well tbh I know one guy who thinks Smed should be jailed, but that thinking isn't motivated by hate. He really just thinks the guy committed fraud on a fairly massive scale, and should be held accountable for that.
Also, saying that this is all about something that happened 3 years ago is misleading. If you look at a number of threads on these boards, you'll notice that people highlight what appears to be a longstanding pattern of poor customer relations.
Further, I don't know that people feel hatred for current SWG players. I know I certainly don't, as some of them are my friends. I do know, however, that it is very divisive when you take something from one group, redesign it and give it to another. I'm aware that players didn't do this. Rather this whole target audience conflict was sparked by the actions SOE and LEC.
Possible solutions to mend this rift have been put forward to SOE and LEC, but they have not been implemented, sadly.
However, the sheer venom, the completely outrageous statements people make (I believe my favorite was the one that said John Smedley should be jailed), the absolute HATE (yes, HATE) for current SWG players ... all that three years after the fact, is, to be frank, rather pathetic.
I've seen people get over very painful divorces in less time than it has taken some of the people on this board to get over pre-CU.
Ding Ding Ding...winner
Well tbh I know one guy who thinks Smed should be jailed, but that thinking isn't motivated by hate. He really just thinks the guy committed fraud on a fairly massive scale, and should be held accountable for that.
Also, saying that this is all about something that happened 3 years ago is misleading. If you look at a number of threads on these boards, you'll notice that people highlight what appears to be a longstanding pattern of poor customer relations.
Further, I don't know that people feel hatred for current SWG players. I know I certainly don't, as some of them are my friends. I do know, however, that it is very divisive when you take something from one group, redesign it and give it to another. I'm aware that players didn't do this. Rather this whole target audience conflict was sparked by the actions SOE and LEC.
Possible solutions to mend this rift have been put forward to SOE and LEC, but they have not been implemented, sadly.
Very well said. But the reason I said it was something that happened three years ago, is because it is a game. Games are games, they shouldn't be taking so seriously. The argument against the NGE is really getting out of hand. Just like how there were some real life murders by players in Lineage 2 clans. You may think these threats against SOE employers are all jokes. But you will be surprised how crazy some people let themselves become over a game(ex. The Lineage 2 incidents). You should be angry about the NGE, I'm not telling you not to be, but don't let it make you a mindless person that just wants to destroy SOE and SWG. Control your anger, and be open to other viewpoints. And don't have blind devotion to something.
Thankfully the poster above stated his opinion clearly and well. The only thing I'd have to disagree on is the highlights on poor customer relations by SOE. If you hate SOE don't buy anything from them, that's how you can stop them. You don't have to try to destroy them, they are destroying themselves. Don't talk to them, and watch them fall.
You can't say that civilization don't advance, however, for in every war they kill you in a new way.
-Will Rogers
Nope, not calling your entire argument a rant. Just making a confession related to some of my own posts in the past. I think a lot of us have failed to choose our words carefully from time to time in the heat of the moment.
Also, I think the point about holding grudges is a good one. Nurturing resentment can have some nasty side effects. Encouraging people to revinvest in something they enjoy also sounds like a fine suggestion.
Where I respectfully see things differently is that ongoing posts are not all related to resentment or a failure to find something else that's enjoyable. I see many as well intentioned consumer advocacy. Granted some people won't appreciate that, but I think many gamers will.
Or you could say one simple statement to those who want to know what SWG is like. " There were major changes in the game, and now it is bad". Very simple and to the point. There is no need to call anybody evil or say that you want to kill someone etc...
You can't say that civilization don't advance, however, for in every war they kill you in a new way.
-Will Rogers
However, the sheer venom, the completely outrageous statements people make (I believe my favorite was the one that said John Smedley should be jailed), the absolute HATE (yes, HATE) for current SWG players ... all that three years after the fact, is, to be frank, rather pathetic.
I've seen people get over very painful divorces in less time than it has taken some of the people on this board to get over pre-CU.
Ding Ding Ding...winner
Well tbh I know one guy who thinks Smed should be jailed, but that thinking isn't motivated by hate. He really just thinks the guy committed fraud on a fairly massive scale, and should be held accountable for that.
Also, saying that this is all about something that happened 3 years ago is misleading. If you look at a number of threads on these boards, you'll notice that people highlight what appears to be a longstanding pattern of poor customer relations.
Further, I don't know that people feel hatred for current SWG players. I know I certainly don't, as some of them are my friends. I do know, however, that it is very divisive when you take something from one group, redesign it and give it to another. I'm aware that players didn't do this. Rather this whole target audience conflict was sparked by the actions SOE and LEC.
Possible solutions to mend this rift have been put forward to SOE and LEC, but they have not been implemented, sadly.
Very well said. But the reason I said it was something that happened three years ago, is because it is a game. Games are games, they shouldn't be taking so seriously. The argument against the NGE is really getting out of hand. Just like how there were some real life murders by players in Lineage 2 clans. You may think these threats against SOE employers are all jokes. But you will be surprised how crazy some people let themselves become over a game(ex. The Lineage 2 incidents). You should be angry about the NGE, I'm not telling you not to be, but don't let it make you a mindless person that just wants to destroy SOE and SWG. Control your anger, and be open to other viewpoints. And don't have blind devotion to something.
Thankfully the poster above stated his opinion clearly and well. The only thing I'd have to disagree on is the highlights on poor customer relations by SOE. If you hate SOE don't buy anything from them, that's how you can stop them. You don't have to try to destroy them, they are destroying themselves. Don't talk to them, and watch them fall.
I think there's something to the idea, "don't talk to them, and watch them fall." Talking to them really just adds to the frustration in my experience. I tried open and respectful communication for months, and it got me nowhere. Well it got my posts moved, deleted, locked etc.Also, if people are really convinced that an injustice took place, certainly taking the personal vengeance route can only end in tears. I have posted another thread that explains where people can take their complaints to authorities who are listening, and have the power to intervene if the right conditions are met. These would not be complaints about a lost video game, however, they would be about money taken via misleading marketting (i.e. fraud allegations).
However, the sheer venom, the completely outrageous statements people make (I believe my favorite was the one that said John Smedley should be jailed), the absolute HATE (yes, HATE) for current SWG players ... all that three years after the fact, is, to be frank, rather pathetic.
I've seen people get over very painful divorces in less time than it has taken some of the people on this board to get over pre-CU.
Ding Ding Ding...winner
Well tbh I know one guy who thinks Smed should be jailed, but that thinking isn't motivated by hate. He really just thinks the guy committed fraud on a fairly massive scale, and should be held accountable for that.
Also, saying that this is all about something that happened 3 years ago is misleading. If you look at a number of threads on these boards, you'll notice that people highlight what appears to be a longstanding pattern of poor customer relations.
Further, I don't know that people feel hatred for current SWG players. I know I certainly don't, as some of them are my friends. I do know, however, that it is very divisive when you take something from one group, redesign it and give it to another. I'm aware that players didn't do this. Rather this whole target audience conflict was sparked by the actions SOE and LEC.
Possible solutions to mend this rift have been put forward to SOE and LEC, but they have not been implemented, sadly.
Very well said. But the reason I said it was something that happened three years ago, is because it is a game. Games are games, they shouldn't be taking so seriously. The argument against the NGE is really getting out of hand. Just like how there were some real life murders by players in Lineage 2 clans. You may think these threats against SOE employers are all jokes. But you will be surprised how crazy some people let themselves become over a game(ex. The Lineage 2 incidents). You should be angry about the NGE, I'm not telling you not to be, but don't let it make you a mindless person that just wants to destroy SOE and SWG. Control your anger, and be open to other viewpoints. And don't have blind devotion to something.
Thankfully the poster above stated his opinion clearly and well. The only thing I'd have to disagree on is the highlights on poor customer relations by SOE. If you hate SOE don't buy anything from them, that's how you can stop them. You don't have to try to destroy them, they are destroying themselves. Don't talk to them, and watch them fall.
When games become multi million dollar businesses, they become quite serious. Many peolle's livelihoods depend on them, many fortunes are won and lost over them; that's all fairly serious.
If you sit around your dining room table, playing the SW RPG by west end, and you mess up and annoy your players, THAT's just a game.
This is serious business.
Even still people here ARE treating it like it's a game; had a man like Smedley destroyed people's real property in the real world the way he destroyed people's virtual property in a virtual word, people whould have gone to real physical war over it; societies have collapsed over less, when it's been real.
All we are seeing in response to what SOE did here is a bunch of people generating negative viral marketing on the internet. That is a perfectly proportional response to the issues at hand.
In fact, since real world fraud may have been perpetrated here, a bunch of folks chatting on the internet over this issue is relatively tame compared with what MIGHT have been.
fishermage.blogspot.com
Also, I think the point about holding grudges is a good one. Nurturing resentment can have some nasty side effects. Encouraging people to revinvest in something they enjoy also sounds like a fine suggestion.
Where I respectfully see things differently is that ongoing posts are not all related to resentment or a failure to find something else that's enjoyable. I see many as well intentioned consumer advocacy. Granted some people won't appreciate that, but I think many gamers will.
Or you could say one simple statement to those who want to know what SWG is like. " There were major changes in the game, and now it is bad". Very simple and to the point. There is no need to call anybody evil or say that you want to kill someone etc...
Lying and cheating people IS evil; no it's not bigtime Hitler eveil, but it is certainly evil. Why do you seek to control the speech of others in this way? Why not let people say what they wish?
If you can't handle it, then the internet is really the wrong place for you.
Now, who has said that they REALLy want to kill anyone over this, and meant it? I'd like to see that post.
fishermage.blogspot.com
However, the sheer venom, the completely outrageous statements people make (I believe my favorite was the one that said John Smedley should be jailed), the absolute HATE (yes, HATE) for current SWG players ... all that three years after the fact, is, to be frank, rather pathetic.
I've seen people get over very painful divorces in less time than it has taken some of the people on this board to get over pre-CU.
Ding Ding Ding...winner
Well tbh I know one guy who thinks Smed should be jailed, but that thinking isn't motivated by hate. He really just thinks the guy committed fraud on a fairly massive scale, and should be held accountable for that.
Also, saying that this is all about something that happened 3 years ago is misleading. If you look at a number of threads on these boards, you'll notice that people highlight what appears to be a longstanding pattern of poor customer relations.
Further, I don't know that people feel hatred for current SWG players. I know I certainly don't, as some of them are my friends. I do know, however, that it is very divisive when you take something from one group, redesign it and give it to another. I'm aware that players didn't do this. Rather this whole target audience conflict was sparked by the actions SOE and LEC.
Possible solutions to mend this rift have been put forward to SOE and LEC, but they have not been implemented, sadly.
Very well said. But the reason I said it was something that happened three years ago, is because it is a game. Games are games, they shouldn't be taking so seriously. The argument against the NGE is really getting out of hand. Just like how there were some real life murders by players in Lineage 2 clans. You may think these threats against SOE employers are all jokes. But you will be surprised how crazy some people let themselves become over a game(ex. The Lineage 2 incidents). You should be angry about the NGE, I'm not telling you not to be, but don't let it make you a mindless person that just wants to destroy SOE and SWG. Control your anger, and be open to other viewpoints. And don't have blind devotion to something.
Thankfully the poster above stated his opinion clearly and well. The only thing I'd have to disagree on is the highlights on poor customer relations by SOE. If you hate SOE don't buy anything from them, that's how you can stop them. You don't have to try to destroy them, they are destroying themselves. Don't talk to them, and watch them fall.
I think there's something to the idea, "don't talk to them, and watch them fall." Talking to them really just adds to the frustration in my experience. I tried open and respectful communication for months, and it got me nowhere. Well it got my posts moved, deleted, locked etc.Also, if people are really convinced that an injustice took place, certainly taking the personal vengeance route can only end in tears. I have posted another thread that explains where people can take their complaints to authorities who are listening, and have the power to intervene if the right conditions are met. These would not be complaints about a lost video game, however, they would be about money taken via misleading marketting (i.e. fraud allegations).
You can't say that civilization don't advance, however, for in every war they kill you in a new way.
-Will Rogers
However, the sheer venom, the completely outrageous statements people make (I believe my favorite was the one that said John Smedley should be jailed), the absolute HATE (yes, HATE) for current SWG players ... all that three years after the fact, is, to be frank, rather pathetic.
I've seen people get over very painful divorces in less time than it has taken some of the people on this board to get over pre-CU.
Ding Ding Ding...winner
Well tbh I know one guy who thinks Smed should be jailed, but that thinking isn't motivated by hate. He really just thinks the guy committed fraud on a fairly massive scale, and should be held accountable for that.
Also, saying that this is all about something that happened 3 years ago is misleading. If you look at a number of threads on these boards, you'll notice that people highlight what appears to be a longstanding pattern of poor customer relations.
Further, I don't know that people feel hatred for current SWG players. I know I certainly don't, as some of them are my friends. I do know, however, that it is very divisive when you take something from one group, redesign it and give it to another. I'm aware that players didn't do this. Rather this whole target audience conflict was sparked by the actions SOE and LEC.
Possible solutions to mend this rift have been put forward to SOE and LEC, but they have not been implemented, sadly.
Very well said. But the reason I said it was something that happened three years ago, is because it is a game. Games are games, they shouldn't be taking so seriously. The argument against the NGE is really getting out of hand. Just like how there were some real life murders by players in Lineage 2 clans. You may think these threats against SOE employers are all jokes. But you will be surprised how crazy some people let themselves become over a game(ex. The Lineage 2 incidents). You should be angry about the NGE, I'm not telling you not to be, but don't let it make you a mindless person that just wants to destroy SOE and SWG. Control your anger, and be open to other viewpoints. And don't have blind devotion to something.
Thankfully the poster above stated his opinion clearly and well. The only thing I'd have to disagree on is the highlights on poor customer relations by SOE. If you hate SOE don't buy anything from them, that's how you can stop them. You don't have to try to destroy them, they are destroying themselves. Don't talk to them, and watch them fall.
I think there's something to the idea, "don't talk to them, and watch them fall." Talking to them really just adds to the frustration in my experience. I tried open and respectful communication for months, and it got me nowhere. Well it got my posts moved, deleted, locked etc.
Also, if people are really convinced that an injustice took place, certainly taking the personal vengeance route can only end in tears. I have posted another thread that explains where people can take their complaints to authorities who are listening, and have the power to intervene if the right conditions are met. These would not be complaints about a lost video game, however, they would be about money taken via misleading marketting (i.e. fraud allegations).
Actually you CAN argue that; such changes are only allowed, in that the EULA agreement is a non-negotiated contract between partis, only to what would be a reasonable person standard. If the actions of SOE went beyond a reasonable person's standard, then they went beyond what is legal.
That would be up to the authorities and the courts to decide over time; this is a VERY new area of law. We shall see. Regulation is often the result of abuse such as we have seen here.
fishermage.blogspot.com
Nope, not calling your entire argument a rant. Just making a confession related to some of my own posts in the past. I think a lot of us have failed to choose our words carefully from time to time in the heat of the moment.
Also, I think the point about holding grudges is a good one. Nurturing resentment can have some nasty side effects. Encouraging people to revinvest in something they enjoy also sounds like a fine suggestion.
Where I respectfully see things differently is that ongoing posts are not all related to resentment or a failure to find something else that's enjoyable. I see many as well intentioned consumer advocacy. Granted some people won't appreciate that, but I think many gamers will.
Or you could say one simple statement to those who want to know what SWG is like. " There were major changes in the game, and now it is bad". Very simple and to the point. There is no need to call anybody evil or say that you want to kill someone etc...
Lying and cheating people IS evil; no it's not bigtime Hitler eveil, but it is certainly evil. Why do you seek to control the speech of others in this way? Why not let people say what they wish?
If you can't handle it, then the internet is really the wrong place for you.
Now, who has said that they REALLy want to kill anyone over this, and meant it? I'd like to see that post.
Where did you come from?. I sense a
I'd advise you to first look up the word evil . Next lose that attitude. After that become literate so you can read my post properly. I didn't say that people acutally meant that they wanted to kill someone over this. But murders have happened over video-games before, and this argument against the NGE and SOE is getting out of of hand.
You can't say that civilization don't advance, however, for in every war they kill you in a new way.
-Will Rogers
However, the sheer venom, the completely outrageous statements people make (I believe my favorite was the one that said John Smedley should be jailed), the absolute HATE (yes, HATE) for current SWG players ... all that three years after the fact, is, to be frank, rather pathetic.
I've seen people get over very painful divorces in less time than it has taken some of the people on this board to get over pre-CU.
Ding Ding Ding...winner
Well tbh I know one guy who thinks Smed should be jailed, but that thinking isn't motivated by hate. He really just thinks the guy committed fraud on a fairly massive scale, and should be held accountable for that.
Also, saying that this is all about something that happened 3 years ago is misleading. If you look at a number of threads on these boards, you'll notice that people highlight what appears to be a longstanding pattern of poor customer relations.
Further, I don't know that people feel hatred for current SWG players. I know I certainly don't, as some of them are my friends. I do know, however, that it is very divisive when you take something from one group, redesign it and give it to another. I'm aware that players didn't do this. Rather this whole target audience conflict was sparked by the actions SOE and LEC.
Possible solutions to mend this rift have been put forward to SOE and LEC, but they have not been implemented, sadly.
Very well said. But the reason I said it was something that happened three years ago, is because it is a game. Games are games, they shouldn't be taking so seriously. The argument against the NGE is really getting out of hand. Just like how there were some real life murders by players in Lineage 2 clans. You may think these threats against SOE employers are all jokes. But you will be surprised how crazy some people let themselves become over a game(ex. The Lineage 2 incidents). You should be angry about the NGE, I'm not telling you not to be, but don't let it make you a mindless person that just wants to destroy SOE and SWG. Control your anger, and be open to other viewpoints. And don't have blind devotion to something.
Thankfully the poster above stated his opinion clearly and well. The only thing I'd have to disagree on is the highlights on poor customer relations by SOE. If you hate SOE don't buy anything from them, that's how you can stop them. You don't have to try to destroy them, they are destroying themselves. Don't talk to them, and watch them fall.
I think there's something to the idea, "don't talk to them, and watch them fall." Talking to them really just adds to the frustration in my experience. I tried open and respectful communication for months, and it got me nowhere. Well it got my posts moved, deleted, locked etc.
Also, if people are really convinced that an injustice took place, certainly taking the personal vengeance route can only end in tears. I have posted another thread that explains where people can take their complaints to authorities who are listening, and have the power to intervene if the right conditions are met. These would not be complaints about a lost video game, however, they would be about money taken via misleading marketting (i.e. fraud allegations).
Actually you CAN argue that; such changes are only allowed, in that the EULA agreement is a non-negotiated contract between partis, only to what would be a reasonable person standard. If the actions of SOE went beyond a reasonable person's standard, then they went beyond what is legal.
That would be up to the authorities and the courts to decide over time; this is a VERY new area of law. We shall see. Regulation is often the result of abuse such as we have seen here.
Fair enough, please if your information is correct try to take this up with the authorities( no sarcasm). There's no need to post on the forums, if what you say is true.
You can't say that civilization don't advance, however, for in every war they kill you in a new way.
-Will Rogers
Also, I think the point about holding grudges is a good one. Nurturing resentment can have some nasty side effects. Encouraging people to revinvest in something they enjoy also sounds like a fine suggestion.
Where I respectfully see things differently is that ongoing posts are not all related to resentment or a failure to find something else that's enjoyable. I see many as well intentioned consumer advocacy. Granted some people won't appreciate that, but I think many gamers will.
Or you could say one simple statement to those who want to know what SWG is like. " There were major changes in the game, and now it is bad". Very simple and to the point. There is no need to call anybody evil or say that you want to kill someone etc...
Lying and cheating people IS evil; no it's not bigtime Hitler eveil, but it is certainly evil. Why do you seek to control the speech of others in this way? Why not let people say what they wish?
If you can't handle it, then the internet is really the wrong place for you.
Now, who has said that they REALLy want to kill anyone over this, and meant it? I'd like to see that post.
Where did you come from?. I sense a I'd advise you to first look up the word evil . Next lose that attitude. After that become literate so you can read my post properly. I didn't say that people acutally meant that they wanted to kill someone over this. But murders have happened over video-games before, and this argument against the NGE and SOE is getting out of of hand.
Evil is not something one can LOOK UP -- it has been debated as long as man has been around. If you don't feel lying is evil, and cheating people is evil, you afre entitled to that moral view. We'll have to agree to disagree. I personaly believe that any willful violation of anyone else is evil, and there are degrees of evil, murder is worse than armed robbery, armed robbery is worse than burglary, burglary is worse than cheating, and cheating is worse than lying -- but all are forms of what we call evil.
I've been here all along; thanks for the personal attacks. How about actually dealing with what I have said. I never troll. The only trolling I see here is coming from you, starting with your OP.
Who are YOU to determine when a discussion is out of hand? Again, it seems you have a definite problem with the opinions of others. I suggest you leave the internet at once -- it was designed for peope to actually DISCUSS things.
fishermage.blogspot.com