I am writing this thread to show the stupidity of many SWG veterans. Which makes all SWG veterans, including myself look like complete lunatics. Please read the entire thread before you post anything.Trolls, I advise you all to stay clear of this thread. I am an SWG veteran, and this thread's intention isn't to try to justify the NGE. The true purpose of this thread is to tell every fellow SWG veteran to finally shut their huge mouths, and find a new fun game to play. Just like I did. Yes I'm a genius I managed to find a game other than SWG. Please feel free to congratulate me (sarcasm). I am very surprised and annoyed by the fact that people are still whining about the NGE and CU. It has been 3 years ladies and gentlemen. Three years!, how can you hold a grudge for so long? This next sentence will sound very sexist, and I apologize. The only people I've seen hold grudges for that long are women. You guys sound like complete fools when you whine about something that occured a few years back. All of you that disagree with me will probably try to counter this argument by saying that you spent time and money on this game. So your telling me that every game that you played and got tired of and quit, was a waste of your time and money. My friends that is exactly what it sounds like. You had fun with SWG right? that's all that matters. Move on to a new game, no game is eternal. The only games that are eternal are vaporware. There are many great games out there. Trust me you'll find one you like. I was one of those that was pissed off at SOE for ruining SWG, but I moved on. Yes SWG was one of my favorite games, but I got sick and tired of whining about something I had no power over. Just stay clear of SWG and play a game you do enjoy. Crying will get you nowhere. It will just make you miserable.
I came out of mmorpg.com retirement to respond to Sun-tzu.
In short, they ruined the game, I can live with that, but they also ripped several hundred thousand people off, and were completely unrepentant while doing so. SOE is a corrupt company that does not care about it's customers. Where I am from we take consumer rights quite seriously.
So, you like the game. Good for you. That does not have a thing to do with why I trash the name of SOE everytime someone has the luck of bringing them up.
Ha, last thread my arse...
Thank you for making my day. I have to congratulate you on that .
Read my post I have stated clearly that both SOE and SWG=crap. I don't like the new SWG at all. I just think that its time for us veterans to move on. If you guys want to keep complaining about SWG go ahead, but please don't go crazy over it.
You can't say that civilization don't advance, however, for in every war they kill you in a new way. -Will Rogers
Consumers won't nor should they stop complaining using the most effective mode possible because it's the way business are ultimately kept accountable, Should someone make death threats- absolutely not, but there is nothing wrong with telling a new buyer what can happen if they deal with this company. Does anyone think another game will dare pull an SOE like makeover at this point? Not likely.
The OP and Wolverine boy are just going to have to deal with it, maybe to stop reading or posting here would be a good start. BTW, seeing ASU throttle the Wolverines was very enjoyable- thanks to a vastly over rated football program I had a good day last Sept and I am sure pretty happy Pryor went to OSU now.
Consumers can call a product crap , and tell others not to buy it. But when it goes on for three years, it seems like everybody already knows how bad the game is.
Are you telling me and others not to post, just because we have different opinions than you? That really sounds arrogant man.
He is not telling you what to do. he is saying that if YOU can't handle the opinions of others, if YOu are sick of it, if YOU are getting angry that it's gone on for this long, then maybe YOU need to remove yourself from the equation, get over it, and move on.
Ok then since you can't handle my opinion why don't you take your own advice and leave. Again I must ask you , what are you even arguing about? Are you arguing for the sake of arguing?
I can more than handle your opinion, in fact, you have yet to even deal with anything I have posted. I am answering your flaming, trollish posts quite nicely. I am arguing that you are not God and it is not up to YOU to determine "enough is enough," that that is up to the people and if such makes you angry or frustrated, perhaps you would be happier elsewhere.
I am not arguing for the sake of arguing; in fact, I am barely arguing in that what I am saying is so obvious. I am however countering everything you say quite nicely. You don't have a case and I have shown so.
Again I must say that I have already apologized for my first post.(I might as well go edit it). That is the only post I have made that I would call a flaming post, and I have already said that it was a poorly written post. I have said that I shouldn't be making commands, and that my first post sounded far too commanding.
So your argument that I don't have a case has no valid points. My case is clear. I think that its time for SWG veterans to move on. SWG is a horrible game, that will never become what it once was. If that wasn't the case SOE would of changed the game back to its original form, a month or so after the changes they made.
I will also quote a post I made on this thread, so you know exactly what I'm saying( no I'm not calling you stupid, I just want you to clearly understand what I'm saying).
You can't say that civilization don't advance, however, for in every war they kill you in a new way. -Will Rogers
I disagreed with parts of your posts, but that's just me giving my opinion regarding the method of delivery in the initial post. My opinion and $1.90 will get you a cup o' joe at Starbucks. And, just for the record, you originally accused Demalus of putting words in your mouth, not me. Again, I agree with your sentiment that vets should try a new game and see if they like it. I'm not bashing you, I'm saying you're right, trying a new game, MMO or not, is a good idea and can be healthy for some people. Are we now haggling over the degree to which I agree with you on that point? lol
lol sorry about that sometimes I get too passionate about my views. I probably confused your two posts. I am clearly going crazy over this lol , no sarcasm intended. I also apologize for telling SWG veterans to shut up. But I am tired of hearing your stories over a hundred times. I'm a SWG veteran for crying out loud, I've lived it. I've been through the CU and NGE. I know what you've been through. You guys have got to understand that. You guys have had 3 years to find a game to replace SWG. I am sorry if you haven't found any good mmorpgs. I myself couldn't find one to replace SWG, so I am playing single player games until a good one finally shows up.
This is the post I wanted everybody to read, including you Fishermage.
You can't say that civilization don't advance, however, for in every war they kill you in a new way. -Will Rogers
Originally posted by ThaneB Originally posted by Fishermage
Originally posted by ThaneB
Originally posted by Fishermage
Originally posted by ThaneB Originally posted by ASUDevil
Consumers won't nor should they stop complaining using the most effective mode possible because it's the way business are ultimately kept accountable, Should someone make death threats- absolutely not, but there is nothing wrong with telling a new buyer what can happen if they deal with this company. Does anyone think another game will dare pull an SOE like makeover at this point? Not likely. The OP and Wolverine boy are just going to have to deal with it, maybe to stop reading or posting here would be a good start. BTW, seeing ASU throttle the Wolverines was very enjoyable- thanks to a vastly over rated football program I had a good day last Sept and I am sure pretty happy Pryor went to OSU now.
Consumers can call a product crap , and tell others not to buy it. But when it goes on for three years, it seems like everybody already knows how bad the game is. Are you telling me and others not to post, just because we have different opinions than you? That really sounds arrogant man.
He is not telling you what to do. he is saying that if YOU can't handle the opinions of others, if YOu are sick of it, if YOU are getting angry that it's gone on for this long, then maybe YOU need to remove yourself from the equation, get over it, and move on. Ok then since you can't handle my opinion why don't you take your own advice and leave. Again I must ask you , what are you even arguing about? Are you arguing for the sake of arguing?
I can more than handle your opinion, in fact, you have yet to even deal with anything I have posted. I am answering your flaming, trollish posts quite nicely. I am arguing that you are not God and it is not up to YOU to determine "enough is enough," that that is up to the people and if such makes you angry or frustrated, perhaps you would be happier elsewhere. I am not arguing for the sake of arguing; in fact, I am barely arguing in that what I am saying is so obvious. I am however countering everything you say quite nicely. You don't have a case and I have shown so. Again I must say that I have already apologized for my first post.(I might as well go edit it). That is the only post I have made that I would call a flaming post, and I have already said that it was a poorly written post. I have said that I shouldn't be making commands, and that my first post sounded far too commanding. So your argument that I don't have a case has no valid points. My case is clear. I think that its time for SWG veterans to move on. SWG is a horrible game, that will never become what it once was. If that wasn't the case SOE would of changed the game back to its original form, a month or so after the changes they made. I will also quote a post I made on this thread, so you know exactly what I'm saying( no I'm not calling you stupid, I just want you to clearly understand what I'm saying).
You are not God. It is not up to you to determine when enough is enough.
Your case is weak. You are claiming some right or power to determine for other people when enough is enough. You have no made a persuasive case for such being the case, and as such, your argument fails. You have apologized for your first post, but every time someone challenges you, you return to the same pattern of namecalling and demanding things you don't have the right to demand.
I know exactly what you are saying, but I and many others disagree with you, and we are not convinced by your commands.
Originally posted by ThaneB Originally posted by ThaneB Originally posted by Harleyrider I disagreed with parts of your posts, but that's just me giving my opinion regarding the method of delivery in the initial post. My opinion and $1.90 will get you a cup o' joe at Starbucks. And, just for the record, you originally accused Demalus of putting words in your mouth, not me. Again, I agree with your sentiment that vets should try a new game and see if they like it. I'm not bashing you, I'm saying you're right, trying a new game, MMO or not, is a good idea and can be healthy for some people. Are we now haggling over the degree to which I agree with you on that point? lol
lol sorry about that sometimes I get too passionate about my views. I probably confused your two posts. I am clearly going crazy over this lol , no sarcasm intended. I also apologize for telling SWG veterans to shut up. But I am tired of hearing your stories over a hundred times. I'm a SWG veteran for crying out loud, I've lived it. I've been through the CU and NGE. I know what you've been through. You guys have got to understand that. You guys have had 3 years to find a game to replace SWG. I am sorry if you haven't found any good mmorpgs. I myself couldn't find one to replace SWG, so I am playing single player games until a good one finally shows up. This is the post I wanted everybody to read, including you Fishermage.
I read that and understand it. That is all good and well, but it doesn't change the issue that YOU have brought up and continue to argue over. It is not for YOU to decide when "enough is enough" for anyone but yourself. Once you understand that, you will be able to get over it yourself and move on.
I disagreed with parts of your posts, but that's just me giving my opinion regarding the method of delivery in the initial post. My opinion and $1.90 will get you a cup o' joe at Starbucks. And, just for the record, you originally accused Demalus of putting words in your mouth, not me.
Again, I agree with your sentiment that vets should try a new game and see if they like it. I'm not bashing you, I'm saying you're right, trying a new game, MMO or not, is a good idea and can be healthy for some people. Are we now haggling over the degree to which I agree with you on that point? lol
lol sorry about that sometimes I get too passionate about my views. I probably confused your two posts. I am clearly going crazy over this lol , no sarcasm intended. I also apologize for telling SWG veterans to shut up. But I am tired of hearing your stories over a hundred times. I'm a SWG veteran for crying out loud, I've lived it. I've been through the CU and NGE. I know what you've been through. You guys have got to understand that. You guys have had 3 years to find a game to replace SWG. I am sorry if you haven't found any good mmorpgs. I myself couldn't find one to replace SWG, so I am playing single player games until a good one finally shows up.
This is the post I wanted everybody to read, including you Fishermage.
I read that and understand it. That is all good and well, but it doesn't change the issue that YOU have brought up and continue to argue over. It is not for YOU to decide when "enough is enough" for anyone but yourself. Once you understand that, you will be able to get over it yourself and move on.
let me go ahead and quote another post for you
You can't say that civilization don't advance, however, for in every war they kill you in a new way. -Will Rogers
I disagreed with parts of your posts, but that's just me giving my opinion regarding the method of delivery in the initial post. My opinion and $1.90 will get you a cup o' joe at Starbucks. And, just for the record, you originally accused Demalus of putting words in your mouth, not me. Again, I agree with your sentiment that vets should try a new game and see if they like it. I'm not bashing you, I'm saying you're right, trying a new game, MMO or not, is a good idea and can be healthy for some people. Are we now haggling over the degree to which I agree with you on that point? lol
lol sorry about that sometimes I get too passionate about my views. I probably confused your two posts. I am clearly going crazy over this lol , no sarcasm intended. I also apologize for telling SWG veterans to shut up. But I am tired of hearing your stories over a hundred times. I'm a SWG veteran for crying out loud, I've lived it. I've been through the CU and NGE. I know what you've been through. You guys have got to understand that. You guys have had 3 years to find a game to replace SWG. I am sorry if you haven't found any good mmorpgs. I myself couldn't find one to replace SWG, so I am playing single player games until a good one finally shows up.
You guys really need to read this post. You have clearly been avoiding it. It really states my point of view in a great way. It is not hostile at all unlike my first post. I apologize for my first post it was very blatant. I have apologized for my errors, but I will not withdraw my opinion, just like you guys won't take back yours. I have admitted that I was arrogant. But you guys have got to admit you guys acted the same way. I admire you for your tenacity, even though you will obviously not respect me either way. So if you call me an idiot who dosen't listen to anyones opinion then you are clearly hypocrites. Everybody is willing to defend their opinions to the death, you have no right to attack a person and not his opinion. I apologize, because I didn't abide by that rule, until my last 4 posts. Basicly an example of what happened on this forum is how people bash Al Gore and not Global Warming, just because they don't have a valid argument against it. I'm not saying that all of you don't have valid arguments, but a few of you have verbally attacked me. You don't know who I am, and I don't know who you guys are. Keep the debate going if you wish, but don't attack me, attack my opinion, which you haven't relized was changed a long time back. The post I made yesterday clearly states that I respect you guys. I know what you've been through.( I'm sick and tired of some of you saying I haven't played pre-cu SWG by the way). If I worked for SOE I wouldn't be calling SWG crap. Some of you really need to hear me out, because I've read all your posts, and I actually agree with some of you that have just made negative posts about my opnion. Like how one of you said that I shouldn't have made that sexist comment. I definitely shouldn't have made that comment. I apologized in my first post, but I must apologize again, because I greatly offended many of you. I also apologized for telling you to shut up. Yes I agree with you on that, who am I to be making commands
Here's the second post fishermage
You can't say that civilization don't advance, however, for in every war they kill you in a new way. -Will Rogers
Originally posted by ThaneB Originally posted by ThaneB Originally posted by ThaneB Originally posted by Harleyrider I disagreed with parts of your posts, but that's just me giving my opinion regarding the method of delivery in the initial post. My opinion and $1.90 will get you a cup o' joe at Starbucks. And, just for the record, you originally accused Demalus of putting words in your mouth, not me. Again, I agree with your sentiment that vets should try a new game and see if they like it. I'm not bashing you, I'm saying you're right, trying a new game, MMO or not, is a good idea and can be healthy for some people. Are we now haggling over the degree to which I agree with you on that point? lol
lol sorry about that sometimes I get too passionate about my views. I probably confused your two posts. I am clearly going crazy over this lol , no sarcasm intended. I also apologize for telling SWG veterans to shut up. But I am tired of hearing your stories over a hundred times. I'm a SWG veteran for crying out loud, I've lived it. I've been through the CU and NGE. I know what you've been through. You guys have got to understand that. You guys have had 3 years to find a game to replace SWG. I am sorry if you haven't found any good mmorpgs. I myself couldn't find one to replace SWG, so I am playing single player games until a good one finally shows up.
You guys really need to read this post. You have clearly been avoiding it. It really states my point of view in a great way. It is not hostile at all unlike my first post. I apologize for my first post it was very blatant. I have apologized for my errors, but I will not withdraw my opinion, just like you guys won't take back yours. I have admitted that I was arrogant. But you guys have got to admit you guys acted the same way. I admire you for your tenacity, even though you will obviously not respect me either way. So if you call me an idiot who dosen't listen to anyones opinion then you are clearly hypocrites. Everybody is willing to defend their opinions to the death, you have no right to attack a person and not his opinion. I apologize, because I didn't abide by that rule, until my last 4 posts. Basicly an example of what happened on this forum is how people bash Al Gore and not Global Warming, just because they don't have a valid argument against it. I'm not saying that all of you don't have valid arguments, but a few of you have verbally attacked me. You don't know who I am, and I don't know who you guys are. Keep the debate going if you wish, but don't attack me, attack my opinion, which you haven't relized was changed a long time back. The post I made yesterday clearly states that I respect you guys. I know what you've been through.( I'm sick and tired of some of you saying I haven't played pre-cu SWG by the way). If I worked for SOE I wouldn't be calling SWG crap. Some of you really need to hear me out, because I've read all your posts, and I actually agree with some of you that have just made negative posts about my opnion. Like how one of you said that I shouldn't have made that sexist comment. I definitely shouldn't have made that comment. I apologized in my first post, but I must apologize again, because I greatly offended many of you. I also apologized for telling you to shut up. Yes I agree with you on that, who am I to be making commands Here's the second post fishermage
...and your point is?
If you agree you have no right or reason to decide for others when "enough is enough," why are you still posting in this thread? YOU are the one keeping it alive.
If you retract the very idea of your first post, and no longer agree that "enough is enough," isn't it time YOU moved on?
I disagreed with parts of your posts, but that's just me giving my opinion regarding the method of delivery in the initial post. My opinion and $1.90 will get you a cup o' joe at Starbucks. And, just for the record, you originally accused Demalus of putting words in your mouth, not me.
Again, I agree with your sentiment that vets should try a new game and see if they like it. I'm not bashing you, I'm saying you're right, trying a new game, MMO or not, is a good idea and can be healthy for some people. Are we now haggling over the degree to which I agree with you on that point? lol
lol sorry about that sometimes I get too passionate about my views. I probably confused your two posts. I am clearly going crazy over this lol , no sarcasm intended. I also apologize for telling SWG veterans to shut up. But I am tired of hearing your stories over a hundred times. I'm a SWG veteran for crying out loud, I've lived it. I've been through the CU and NGE. I know what you've been through. You guys have got to understand that. You guys have had 3 years to find a game to replace SWG. I am sorry if you haven't found any good mmorpgs. I myself couldn't find one to replace SWG, so I am playing single player games until a good one finally shows up.
You guys really need to read this post. You have clearly been avoiding it. It really states my point of view in a great way. It is not hostile at all unlike my first post. I apologize for my first post it was very blatant. I have apologized for my errors, but I will not withdraw my opinion, just like you guys won't take back yours. I have admitted that I was arrogant. But you guys have got to admit you guys acted the same way. I admire you for your tenacity, even though you will obviously not respect me either way. So if you call me an idiot who dosen't listen to anyones opinion then you are clearly hypocrites. Everybody is willing to defend their opinions to the death, you have no right to attack a person and not his opinion. I apologize, because I didn't abide by that rule, until my last 4 posts. Basicly an example of what happened on this forum is how people bash Al Gore and not Global Warming, just because they don't have a valid argument against it. I'm not saying that all of you don't have valid arguments, but a few of you have verbally attacked me. You don't know who I am, and I don't know who you guys are. Keep the debate going if you wish, but don't attack me, attack my opinion, which you haven't relized was changed a long time back. The post I made yesterday clearly states that I respect you guys. I know what you've been through.( I'm sick and tired of some of you saying I haven't played pre-cu SWG by the way). If I worked for SOE I wouldn't be calling SWG crap. Some of you really need to hear me out, because I've read all your posts, and I actually agree with some of you that have just made negative posts about my opnion. Like how one of you said that I shouldn't have made that sexist comment. I definitely shouldn't have made that comment. I apologized in my first post, but I must apologize again, because I greatly offended many of you. I also apologized for telling you to shut up. Yes I agree with you on that, who am I to be making commands
Here's the second post fishermage
...and your point is?
If you agree you have no right or reason to decide for others when "enough is enough," why are you still posting in this thread? YOU are the one keeping it alive.
If you retract the very idea of your first post, and no longer agree that "enough is enough," isn't it time YOU moved on?
I am still posting in this thread, because I still have an opinion that differs from yours and many other SWG veterans. I still believe its time to move on, but I shouldn't be commanding anyone to do so. You on the other hand have been commanding me to leave this thread and my opinion behind. Don't deny it, you can't handle it when people have different opinions than you, who's the hypocrite now?
You can't say that civilization don't advance, however, for in every war they kill you in a new way. -Will Rogers
Hey Thane, just curious what game are you now playing, what game did you move on to?? Also I agree with your post, just let the dam horse die already....and yes I am a vet from beta....and yes I really REALLY miss the old SWG, but that is life, things change and they are out of our control.....this does not mean I am happy with it.
I agree to but talking to the people grasping to keep H8 alive its a futile effort. Others have said this including me. they dont care they think its the proper thing to do and they dont much care what they make other vets look like either. Nor do they care that their ultimate goal is to hurt the present player base with their anger and hatred. All they care about is the "me" factor and put that together with a 3 year long campaign of hatred you dont have a normal situation here. The best thing to do is just ignore it and carry on doing whatever it is your doing gamewise. Rationally talking to this small group is not really something that is viable. They feel justified in what they do and how they do it and how they make an entire community look as a result of it. They also feel justified in feeling that the correct thing is to have a game which a population that exists in the present does play and pay money for in fact they hate anyone who plays the present rendition of this game probably equally to the rest of the H8. Put it all together it spells "nonsense"
Originally posted by ThaneB Originally posted by Fishermage
Originally posted by ThaneB
Originally posted by ThaneB
Originally posted by ThaneB
Originally posted by Harleyrider
I disagreed with parts of your posts, but that's just me giving my opinion regarding the method of delivery in the initial post. My opinion and $1.90 will get you a cup o' joe at Starbucks. And, just for the record, you originally accused Demalus of putting words in your mouth, not me. Again, I agree with your sentiment that vets should try a new game and see if they like it. I'm not bashing you, I'm saying you're right, trying a new game, MMO or not, is a good idea and can be healthy for some people. Are we now haggling over the degree to which I agree with you on that point? lol
lol sorry about that sometimes I get too passionate about my views. I probably confused your two posts. I am clearly going crazy over this lol , no sarcasm intended. I also apologize for telling SWG veterans to shut up. But I am tired of hearing your stories over a hundred times. I'm a SWG veteran for crying out loud, I've lived it. I've been through the CU and NGE. I know what you've been through. You guys have got to understand that. You guys have had 3 years to find a game to replace SWG. I am sorry if you haven't found any good mmorpgs. I myself couldn't find one to replace SWG, so I am playing single player games until a good one finally shows up.
You guys really need to read this post. You have clearly been avoiding it. It really states my point of view in a great way. It is not hostile at all unlike my first post. I apologize for my first post it was very blatant. I have apologized for my errors, but I will not withdraw my opinion, just like you guys won't take back yours. I have admitted that I was arrogant. But you guys have got to admit you guys acted the same way. I admire you for your tenacity, even though you will obviously not respect me either way. So if you call me an idiot who dosen't listen to anyones opinion then you are clearly hypocrites. Everybody is willing to defend their opinions to the death, you have no right to attack a person and not his opinion. I apologize, because I didn't abide by that rule, until my last 4 posts. Basicly an example of what happened on this forum is how people bash Al Gore and not Global Warming, just because they don't have a valid argument against it. I'm not saying that all of you don't have valid arguments, but a few of you have verbally attacked me. You don't know who I am, and I don't know who you guys are. Keep the debate going if you wish, but don't attack me, attack my opinion, which you haven't relized was changed a long time back. The post I made yesterday clearly states that I respect you guys. I know what you've been through.( I'm sick and tired of some of you saying I haven't played pre-cu SWG by the way). If I worked for SOE I wouldn't be calling SWG crap. Some of you really need to hear me out, because I've read all your posts, and I actually agree with some of you that have just made negative posts about my opnion. Like how one of you said that I shouldn't have made that sexist comment. I definitely shouldn't have made that comment. I apologized in my first post, but I must apologize again, because I greatly offended many of you. I also apologized for telling you to shut up. Yes I agree with you on that, who am I to be making commands
Here's the second post fishermage
...and your point is? If you agree you have no right or reason to decide for others when "enough is enough," why are you still posting in this thread? YOU are the one keeping it alive. If you retract the very idea of your first post, and no longer agree that "enough is enough," isn't it time YOU moved on?
I am still posting in this thread, because I still have an opinion that differs from yours and many other SWG veterans. I still believe its time to move on, but I shouldn't be commanding anyone to do so. You on the other hand have been commanding me to leave this thread and my opinion behind. Don't deny it, you can't handle it when people have different opinions than you, who's the hypocrite now?
Now it is YOU who are not reading. Everything I have said was in the "if-then" format. If you can't handle the opinions of others, THEN perhaps the internet if not the right place for you, and it is time for you to move on.
I am quite comfortable with your opinion, it doesn't bother me in the least -- I just find it weak and unconvincing.
Thank you for that. Are you calling my entire argument a rant though? I didn't apologize to state that I was defeated and everyone against me was right. I was just saying that I didn't state my opinion originally like I should have. Either way though people would have bashed me anyway.
Nope, not calling your entire argument a rant. Just making a confession related to some of my own posts in the past. I think a lot of us have failed to choose our words carefully from time to time in the heat of the moment.
Also, I think the point about holding grudges is a good one. Nurturing resentment can have some nasty side effects. Encouraging people to revinvest in something they enjoy also sounds like a fine suggestion.
Where I respectfully see things differently is that ongoing posts are not all related to resentment or a failure to find something else that's enjoyable. I see many as well intentioned consumer advocacy. Granted some people won't appreciate that, but I think many gamers will.
, gamers appreciate reviews by previous customers. I just think they could write those reviews a little better. I mean come on now, have you read a single review of SWG that dosen't call SOE evil? A better way to state why the game is bad is to list how things were before, and how they are now. Saying SOE is evil makes people sound like lunatics. I'm sorry, but I can't take someone who calls a company evil seriously. You could just say that SOE is a bad company.
Or you could say one simple statement to those who want to know what SWG is like. " There were major changes in the game, and now it is bad". Very simple and to the point. There is no need to call anybody evil or say that you want to kill someone etc...
Lying and cheating people IS evil; no it's not bigtime Hitler eveil, but it is certainly evil. Why do you seek to control the speech of others in this way? Why not let people say what they wish?
If you can't handle it, then the internet is really the wrong place for you.
Now, who has said that they REALLy want to kill anyone over this, and meant it? I'd like to see that post.
Where did you come from?. I sense a I'd advise you to first look up the word evil . Next lose that attitude. After that become literate so you can read my post properly. I didn't say that people acutally meant that they wanted to kill someone over this. But murders have happened over video-games before, and this argument against the NGE and SOE is getting out of of hand.
Evil is not something one can LOOK UP -- it has been debated as long as man has been around. If you don't feel lying is evil, and cheating people is evil, you afre entitled to that moral view. We'll have to agree to disagree. I personaly believe that any willful violation of anyone else is evil, and there are degrees of evil, murder is worse than armed robbery, armed robbery is worse than burglary, burglary is worse than cheating, and cheating is worse than lying -- but all are forms of what we call evil.
I've been here all along; thanks for the personal attacks. How about actually dealing with what I have said. I never troll. The only trolling I see here is coming from you, starting with your OP.
Who are YOU to determine when a discussion is out of hand? Again, it seems you have a definite problem with the opinions of others. I suggest you leave the internet at once -- it was designed for peope to actually DISCUSS things.
If-then format my ass. Like you said in this post if you have a definite opinion with the opinions of others you should leave the internet at once. Take your own advice and leave.
You can't say that civilization don't advance, however, for in every war they kill you in a new way. -Will Rogers
Originally posted by ummax Originally posted by Amiehe Hey Thane, just curious what game are you now playing, what game did you move on to?? Also I agree with your post, just let the dam horse die already....and yes I am a vet from beta....and yes I really REALLY miss the old SWG, but that is life, things change and they are out of our control.....this does not mean I am happy with it.
I agree to but talking to the people grasping to keep H8 alive its a futile effort. Others have said this including me. they dont care they think its the proper thing to do and they dont much care what they make other vets look like either. Nor do they care that their ultimate goal is to hurt the present player base with their anger and hatred. All they care about is the "me" factor and put that together with a 3 year long campaign of hatred you dont have a normal situation here. The best thing to do is just ignore it and carry on doing whatever it is your doing gamewise. Rationally talking to this small group is not really something that is viable. They feel justified in what they do and how they do it and how they make an entire community look as a result of it. They also feel justified in feeling that the correct thing is to have a game which a population that exists in the present does play and pay money for in fact they hate anyone who plays the present rendition of this game probably equally to the rest of the H8. Put it all together it spells "nonsense" meh.. as I said this wil not end well.. I am part of the current playerbase and I have never felt the least bit "hurt" by anyone's negative opinion of SOE and the unethical thing they did with the NGE. I fully understand that SOE deserves what it gets for what they did.
The DEVs continue to make the same mistakes over and over again, and have shown time and again they have learned nothing from the NGE. I will continue to criticize them while I play the game; to me, that is the position I feel most comfortable with; a knowledgeable critic.
I support many different views in this and don't feel anyone who plays the game should feel offended by anything anyone who doesn't play the game says about us or the game. It's all good in freedom.
Hey Thane, just curious what game are you now playing, what game did you move on to?? Also I agree with your post, just let the dam horse die already....and yes I am a vet from beta....and yes I really REALLY miss the old SWG, but that is life, things change and they are out of our control.....this does not mean I am happy with it.
I agree to but talking to the people grasping to keep H8 alive its a futile effort. Others have said this including me. they dont care they think its the proper thing to do and they dont much care what they make other vets look like either. Nor do they care that their ultimate goal is to hurt the present player base with their anger and hatred. All they care about is the "me" factor and put that together with a 3 year long campaign of hatred you dont have a normal situation here. The best thing to do is just ignore it and carry on doing whatever it is your doing gamewise. Rationally talking to this small group is not really something that is viable. They feel justified in what they do and how they do it and how they make an entire community look as a result of it. They also feel justified in feeling that the correct thing is to have a game which a population that exists in the present does play and pay money for in fact they hate anyone who plays the present rendition of this game probably equally to the rest of the H8. Put it all together it spells "nonsense"
meh..
as I said this wil not end well..
I am part of the current playerbase and I have never felt the least bit "hurt" by anyone's negative opinion of SOE and the unethical thing they did with the NGE. I fully understand that SOE deserves what it gets for what they did.
The DEVs continue to make the same mistakes over and over again, and have shown time and again they have learned nothing from the NGE. I will continue to criticize them while I play the game; to me, that is the position I feel most comfortable with; a knowledgeable critic.
I support many different views in this and don't feel anyone who plays the game should feel offended by anything anyone who doesn't play the game says about us or the game. It's all good in freedom.
Who plays a game they love to bash? That's like me playing an Asian grinder and calling it crap at the same time. Are you making up stories, because you ran out of tactics, to keep the discussion going?
You can't say that civilization don't advance, however, for in every war they kill you in a new way. -Will Rogers
Originally posted by ThaneB Originally posted by Fishermage
Originally posted by ThaneB
Originally posted by Fishermage
Originally posted by ThaneB Originally posted by ArcAngel3 Originally posted by ThaneB
Thank you for that. Are you calling my entire argument a rant though? I didn't apologize to state that I was defeated and everyone against me was right. I was just saying that I didn't state my opinion originally like I should have. Either way though people would have bashed me anyway.
Nope, not calling your entire argument a rant. Just making a confession related to some of my own posts in the past. I think a lot of us have failed to choose our words carefully from time to time in the heat of the moment. Also, I think the point about holding grudges is a good one. Nurturing resentment can have some nasty side effects. Encouraging people to revinvest in something they enjoy also sounds like a fine suggestion. Where I respectfully see things differently is that ongoing posts are not all related to resentment or a failure to find something else that's enjoyable. I see many as well intentioned consumer advocacy. Granted some people won't appreciate that, but I think many gamers will.
, gamers appreciate reviews by previous customers. I just think they could write those reviews a little better. I mean come on now, have you read a single review of SWG that dosen't call SOE evil? A better way to state why the game is bad is to list how things were before, and how they are now. Saying SOE is evil makes people sound like lunatics. I'm sorry, but I can't take someone who calls a company evil seriously. You could just say that SOE is a bad company. Or you could say one simple statement to those who want to know what SWG is like. " There were major changes in the game, and now it is bad". Very simple and to the point. There is no need to call anybody evil or say that you want to kill someone etc...
Lying and cheating people IS evil; no it's not bigtime Hitler eveil, but it is certainly evil. Why do you seek to control the speech of others in this way? Why not let people say what they wish? If you can't handle it, then the internet is really the wrong place for you. Now, who has said that they REALLy want to kill anyone over this, and meant it? I'd like to see that post.
Where did you come from?. I sense a I'd advise you to first look up the word evil . Next lose that attitude. After that become literate so you can read my post properly. I didn't say that people acutally meant that they wanted to kill someone over this. But murders have happened over video-games before, and this argument against the NGE and SOE is getting out of of hand.
Evil is not something one can LOOK UP -- it has been debated as long as man has been around. If you don't feel lying is evil, and cheating people is evil, you afre entitled to that moral view. We'll have to agree to disagree. I personaly believe that any willful violation of anyone else is evil, and there are degrees of evil, murder is worse than armed robbery, armed robbery is worse than burglary, burglary is worse than cheating, and cheating is worse than lying -- but all are forms of what we call evil. I've been here all along; thanks for the personal attacks. How about actually dealing with what I have said. I never troll. The only trolling I see here is coming from you, starting with your OP. Who are YOU to determine when a discussion is out of hand? Again, it seems you have a definite problem with the opinions of others. I suggest you leave the internet at once -- it was designed for peope to actually DISCUSS things.
If-then format my ass. Like you said in this post if you have a definite opinion with the opinions of others you should leave the internet at once. Take your own advice and leave.
You are not reading again. I said if you have a PROBLEM with the views of others, then perhaps the internet is not for you. I have no problems with anyone's opinions; they can't harm me in the least. I cherish our freedoms and our rights to opinions. If I disagree, I will do so without any problems at all, as I have done.
Originally posted by ThaneB Originally posted by Fishermage
Originally posted by ummax
Originally posted by Amiehe
Hey Thane, just curious what game are you now playing, what game did you move on to?? Also I agree with your post, just let the dam horse die already....and yes I am a vet from beta....and yes I really REALLY miss the old SWG, but that is life, things change and they are out of our control.....this does not mean I am happy with it.
I agree to but talking to the people grasping to keep H8 alive its a futile effort. Others have said this including me. they dont care they think its the proper thing to do and they dont much care what they make other vets look like either. Nor do they care that their ultimate goal is to hurt the present player base with their anger and hatred. All they care about is the "me" factor and put that together with a 3 year long campaign of hatred you dont have a normal situation here. The best thing to do is just ignore it and carry on doing whatever it is your doing gamewise. Rationally talking to this small group is not really something that is viable. They feel justified in what they do and how they do it and how they make an entire community look as a result of it. They also feel justified in feeling that the correct thing is to have a game which a population that exists in the present does play and pay money for in fact they hate anyone who plays the present rendition of this game probably equally to the rest of the H8. Put it all together it spells "nonsense" meh.. as I said this wil not end well.. I am part of the current playerbase and I have never felt the least bit "hurt" by anyone's negative opinion of SOE and the unethical thing they did with the NGE. I fully understand that SOE deserves what it gets for what they did.
The DEVs continue to make the same mistakes over and over again, and have shown time and again they have learned nothing from the NGE. I will continue to criticize them while I play the game; to me, that is the position I feel most comfortable with; a knowledgeable critic. I support many different views in this and don't feel anyone who plays the game should feel offended by anything anyone who doesn't play the game says about us or the game. It's all good in freedom.
Who plays a game they love to bash? That's like me playing an Asian grinder and calling it crap at the same time. Are you making up stories, because you ran out of tactics, to keep the discussion going?
I have explained on many occasions, I play the game because there are still a few things about it I enjoy; I also have some friends who still play and a good guild.
I also love Star Wars, and this game is a monopoly. Also, I want to see how it all ends, and provide everyone with a running commentary on the fiasco. It is an enjoyable diversion.
I don't "love to bash" the game, in fact, I wish I could praise the game; and I am quick to do so, when they do something right. I am a vocal critic however when they do the wrong thing.
I'm not using any "tactics,"I don't need any, simple, straightforward responses are good enough for me.
Thank you for that. Are you calling my entire argument a rant though? I didn't apologize to state that I was defeated and everyone against me was right. I was just saying that I didn't state my opinion originally like I should have. Either way though people would have bashed me anyway.
Nope, not calling your entire argument a rant. Just making a confession related to some of my own posts in the past. I think a lot of us have failed to choose our words carefully from time to time in the heat of the moment.
Also, I think the point about holding grudges is a good one. Nurturing resentment can have some nasty side effects. Encouraging people to revinvest in something they enjoy also sounds like a fine suggestion.
Where I respectfully see things differently is that ongoing posts are not all related to resentment or a failure to find something else that's enjoyable. I see many as well intentioned consumer advocacy. Granted some people won't appreciate that, but I think many gamers will.
, gamers appreciate reviews by previous customers. I just think they could write those reviews a little better. I mean come on now, have you read a single review of SWG that dosen't call SOE evil? A better way to state why the game is bad is to list how things were before, and how they are now. Saying SOE is evil makes people sound like lunatics. I'm sorry, but I can't take someone who calls a company evil seriously. You could just say that SOE is a bad company.
Or you could say one simple statement to those who want to know what SWG is like. " There were major changes in the game, and now it is bad". Very simple and to the point. There is no need to call anybody evil or say that you want to kill someone etc...
Lying and cheating people IS evil; no it's not bigtime Hitler eveil, but it is certainly evil. Why do you seek to control the speech of others in this way? Why not let people say what they wish?
If you can't handle it, then the internet is really the wrong place for you.
Now, who has said that they REALLy want to kill anyone over this, and meant it? I'd like to see that post.
Where did you come from?. I sense a I'd advise you to first look up the word evil . Next lose that attitude. After that become literate so you can read my post properly. I didn't say that people acutally meant that they wanted to kill someone over this. But murders have happened over video-games before, and this argument against the NGE and SOE is getting out of of hand.
Evil is not something one can LOOK UP -- it has been debated as long as man has been around. If you don't feel lying is evil, and cheating people is evil, you afre entitled to that moral view. We'll have to agree to disagree. I personaly believe that any willful violation of anyone else is evil, and there are degrees of evil, murder is worse than armed robbery, armed robbery is worse than burglary, burglary is worse than cheating, and cheating is worse than lying -- but all are forms of what we call evil.
I've been here all along; thanks for the personal attacks. How about actually dealing with what I have said. I never troll. The only trolling I see here is coming from you, starting with your OP.
Who are YOU to determine when a discussion is out of hand? Again, it seems you have a definite problem with the opinions of others. I suggest you leave the internet at once -- it was designed for peope to actually DISCUSS things.
If-then format my ass. Like you said in this post if you have a definite opinion with the opinions of others you should leave the internet at once. Take your own advice and leave.
You are not reading again. I said if you have a PROBLEM with the views of others, then perhaps the internet is not for you. I have no problems with anyone's opinions; they can't harm me in the least. I cherish our freedoms and our rights to opinions. If I disagree, I will do so without any problems at all, as I have done.
Well then I apologize. Some of your posts have just sounded hostile. Since this entire discussion has turned into a debate between you and me lets take this to tells.
You can't say that civilization don't advance, however, for in every war they kill you in a new way. -Will Rogers
Originally posted by ThaneB Originally posted by Fishermage
Originally posted by ThaneB
Originally posted by Fishermage
Originally posted by ThaneB Originally posted by Fishermage
Originally posted by ThaneB
Originally posted by ArcAngel3
Originally posted by ThaneB
Thank you for that. Are you calling my entire argument a rant though? I didn't apologize to state that I was defeated and everyone against me was right. I was just saying that I didn't state my opinion originally like I should have. Either way though people would have bashed me anyway.
Nope, not calling your entire argument a rant. Just making a confession related to some of my own posts in the past. I think a lot of us have failed to choose our words carefully from time to time in the heat of the moment. Also, I think the point about holding grudges is a good one. Nurturing resentment can have some nasty side effects. Encouraging people to revinvest in something they enjoy also sounds like a fine suggestion. Where I respectfully see things differently is that ongoing posts are not all related to resentment or a failure to find something else that's enjoyable. I see many as well intentioned consumer advocacy. Granted some people won't appreciate that, but I think many gamers will.
, gamers appreciate reviews by previous customers. I just think they could write those reviews a little better. I mean come on now, have you read a single review of SWG that dosen't call SOE evil? A better way to state why the game is bad is to list how things were before, and how they are now. Saying SOE is evil makes people sound like lunatics. I'm sorry, but I can't take someone who calls a company evil seriously. You could just say that SOE is a bad company. Or you could say one simple statement to those who want to know what SWG is like. " There were major changes in the game, and now it is bad". Very simple and to the point. There is no need to call anybody evil or say that you want to kill someone etc...
Lying and cheating people IS evil; no it's not bigtime Hitler eveil, but it is certainly evil. Why do you seek to control the speech of others in this way? Why not let people say what they wish? If you can't handle it, then the internet is really the wrong place for you. Now, who has said that they REALLy want to kill anyone over this, and meant it? I'd like to see that post. Where did you come from?. I sense a I'd advise you to first look up the word evil . Next lose that attitude. After that become literate so you can read my post properly. I didn't say that people acutally meant that they wanted to kill someone over this. But murders have happened over video-games before, and this argument against the NGE and SOE is getting out of of hand.
Evil is not something one can LOOK UP -- it has been debated as long as man has been around. If you don't feel lying is evil, and cheating people is evil, you afre entitled to that moral view. We'll have to agree to disagree. I personaly believe that any willful violation of anyone else is evil, and there are degrees of evil, murder is worse than armed robbery, armed robbery is worse than burglary, burglary is worse than cheating, and cheating is worse than lying -- but all are forms of what we call evil. I've been here all along; thanks for the personal attacks. How about actually dealing with what I have said. I never troll. The only trolling I see here is coming from you, starting with your OP. Who are YOU to determine when a discussion is out of hand? Again, it seems you have a definite problem with the opinions of others. I suggest you leave the internet at once -- it was designed for peope to actually DISCUSS things.
If-then format my ass. Like you said in this post if you have a definite opinion with the opinions of others you should leave the internet at once. Take your own advice and leave.
You are not reading again. I said if you have a PROBLEM with the views of others, then perhaps the internet is not for you. I have no problems with anyone's opinions; they can't harm me in the least. I cherish our freedoms and our rights to opinions. If I disagree, I will do so without any problems at all, as I have done.
Well then I apologize. Some of your posts have just sounded hostile. Since this entire discussion has turned into a debate between you and me lets take this to tells. apology accepted; no harmno foul. Send me a tell anytime
I want to make a point here about SWG. It is fully ignored by Lucas Arts. It doesn't even make the Star Wars news web page page or the Star Wars newsletter. There are no stories or lore that envelop this game within the Lucas Arts world besides one little book. Lucas Arts puts no backing into the game at all. So if Lucas Arts has no intension with SWG then I won't either. And neither does the Millions of Star Wars fans. Lets bury it for good. And move on. SOE should never have developed that piece of crap and neither should of changed it. They haven't learned because now they are going to push what is left of the SOE station pass subscriber into micro transactions and kiddie games and subs are going to drop again based on the reality that SOE is led by idiots who take risks that were made for failure. So yes I say continue the debate but not slam each other to say who is wrong or right.
I am a consumer and I endorse my message with my business elsewhere. I will say that Lucas Arts should get their act together for a new MMORPG that is not released bugged, made for idiots, unfinished, or ran by SOE's half arse approach of old.
Hey Thane, just curious what game are you now playing, what game did you move on to?? Also I agree with your post, just let the dam horse die already....and yes I am a vet from beta....and yes I really REALLY miss the old SWG, but that is life, things change and they are out of our control.....this does not mean I am happy with it.
I agree to but talking to the people grasping to keep H8 alive its a futile effort. Others have said this including me. they dont care they think its the proper thing to do and they dont much care what they make other vets look like either. Nor do they care that their ultimate goal is to hurt the present player base with their anger and hatred. All they care about is the "me" factor and put that together with a 3 year long campaign of hatred you dont have a normal situation here. The best thing to do is just ignore it and carry on doing whatever it is your doing gamewise. Rationally talking to this small group is not really something that is viable. They feel justified in what they do and how they do it and how they make an entire community look as a result of it. They also feel justified in feeling that the correct thing is to have a game which a population that exists in the present does play and pay money for in fact they hate anyone who plays the present rendition of this game probably equally to the rest of the H8. Put it all together it spells "nonsense"
meh..
as I said this wil not end well..
I am part of the current playerbase and I have never felt the least bit "hurt" by anyone's negative opinion of SOE and the unethical thing they did with the NGE. I fully understand that SOE deserves what it gets for what they did.
The DEVs continue to make the same mistakes over and over again, and have shown time and again they have learned nothing from the NGE. I will continue to criticize them while I play the game; to me, that is the position I feel most comfortable with; a knowledgeable critic.
I support many different views in this and don't feel anyone who plays the game should feel offended by anything anyone who doesn't play the game says about us or the game. It's all good in freedom.
Who plays a game they love to bash? That's like me playing an Asian grinder and calling it crap at the same time. Are you making up stories, because you ran out of tactics, to keep the discussion going?
I have explained on many occasions, I play the game because there are still a few things about it I enjoy; I also have some friends who still play and a good guild.
I also love Star Wars, and this game is a monopoly. Also, I want to see how it all ends, and provide everyone with a running commentary on the fiasco. It is an enjoyable diversion.
I don't "love to bash" the game, in fact, I wish I could praise the game; and I am quick to do so, when they do something right. I am a vocal critic however when they do the wrong thing.
I'm not using any "tactics,"I don't need any, simple, straightforward responses are good enough for me.
Great post. It would of been great if you said this at the start of this discussion. I would of respected you a lot more and taken you seriously. This discussion has gone on for far too long.
You can't say that civilization don't advance, however, for in every war they kill you in a new way. -Will Rogers
Originally posted by ThaneB What you say makes no sense really. How does changing the minds of a few have to do with SOE? Can you please rephrase what you wrote. I didn't say that it was impossible to change the minds of potential customers. I said that it was impossible to change SOE 's mind. As you know SOE is a crap company that dosen't listen to its customers. Basicly what your saying is that it isn't impossible to change SOE's mind.
You use a quote of Sun-Tzu but fail to understand what my points are...
Here is the message:
You state that it is impossible to change the minds of SOE (and LA), well if it is as such, then it is beyond impossible to change the minds of the masses, ie: former customers by yourself. This thread is a proven demonstration.
As you have properly stated, "SOE is a crap company that doesn't listen to its customers." And thus the reason why so many of us continue to bash SOE, unless of course some changes in policies occur.
Why do you make statements against the disgruntled when you agree to their points of view?
And that is why...
Conservatives' pessimism is conducive to their happiness in three ways. First, they are rarely surprised -- they are right more often than not about the course of events. Second, when they are wrong they are happy to be so. Third, because pessimistic conservatives put not their faith in princes -- government -- they accept that happiness is a function of fending for oneself. They believe that happiness is an activity -- it is inseparable from the pursuit of happiness.
Originally posted by ThaneB What you say makes no sense really. How does changing the minds of a few have to do with SOE? Can you please rephrase what you wrote. I didn't say that it was impossible to change the minds of potential customers. I said that it was impossible to change SOE 's mind. As you know SOE is a crap company that dosen't listen to its customers. Basicly what your saying is that it isn't impossible to change SOE's mind.
You use a quote of Sun-Tzu but fail to understand what my points are...
Here is the message:
You state that it is impossible to change the minds of SOE (and LA), well if it is as such, then it is beyond impossible to change the minds of the masses, ie: former customers by yourself. This thread is a proven demonstration.
As you have properly stated, "SOE is a crap company that doesn't listen to its customers." And thus the reason why so many of us continue to bash SOE, unless of course some changes in policies occur.
Why do you make statements against the disgruntled when you agree to their points of view?
I agree with their point of view on how SOE is a bad company that deserves to be punished. But in my opinion SOE is punishing itself. I believe that they are doing our job for us, by making even more terrible mistakes. I don't believe that it's necessary to bash them, because they are destroying themselves, and continue to do so.
You can't say that civilization don't advance, however, for in every war they kill you in a new way. -Will Rogers
However, the sheer venom, the completely outrageous statements people make (I believe my favorite was the one that said John Smedley should be jailed), the absolute HATE (yes, HATE) for current SWG players ... all that three years after the fact, is, to be frank, rather pathetic.
I've seen people get over very painful divorces in less time than it has taken some of the people on this board to get over pre-CU.
Ding Ding Ding...winner
Well tbh I know one guy who thinks Smed should be jailed, but that thinking isn't motivated by hate. He really just thinks the guy committed fraud on a fairly massive scale, and should be held accountable for that.
Also, saying that this is all about something that happened 3 years ago is misleading. If you look at a number of threads on these boards, you'll notice that people highlight what appears to be a longstanding pattern of poor customer relations.
Further, I don't know that people feel hatred for current SWG players. I know I certainly don't, as some of them are my friends. I do know, however, that it is very divisive when you take something from one group, redesign it and give it to another. I'm aware that players didn't do this. Rather this whole target audience conflict was sparked by the actions SOE and LEC.
Possible solutions to mend this rift have been put forward to SOE and LEC, but they have not been implemented, sadly.
Very well said. But the reason I said it was something that happened three years ago, is because it is a game. Games are games, they shouldn't be taking so seriously. The argument against the NGE is really getting out of hand. Just like how there were some real life murders by players in Lineage 2 clans. You may think these threats against SOE employers are all jokes. But you will be surprised how crazy some people let themselves become over a game(ex. The Lineage 2 incidents). You should be angry about the NGE, I'm not telling you not to be, but don't let it make you a mindless person that just wants to destroy SOE and SWG. Control your anger, and be open to other viewpoints. And don't have blind devotion to something.
Thankfully the poster above stated his opinion clearly and well. The only thing I'd have to disagree on is the highlights on poor customer relations by SOE. If you hate SOE don't buy anything from them, that's how you can stop them. You don't have to try to destroy them, they are destroying themselves. Don't talk to them, and watch them fall.
I think there's something to the idea, "don't talk to them, and watch them fall." Talking to them really just adds to the frustration in my experience. I tried open and respectful communication for months, and it got me nowhere. Well it got my posts moved, deleted, locked etc.
Also, if people are really convinced that an injustice took place, certainly taking the personal vengeance route can only end in tears. I have posted another thread that explains where people can take their complaints to authorities who are listening, and have the power to intervene if the right conditions are met. These would not be complaints about a lost video game, however, they would be about money taken via misleading marketting (i.e. fraud allegations).
SOE ruined a great game, but talking to them won't make them change their minds. I mean it's been three years, if they were going to change their minds, they would of done it a few years back when SWG subscriber numbers were starting to diminish. The problem with taking to this to authorities is that mmorpgs are dynamic. They are supposed to always change and be a living world. So you can't you really say that SOE made too many changes, so we deserve our money back.
Wow this thread has really grown 0_o. Anyways, what SOE cannot do (legally) is intentionally mislead people about the game's development and take subscription money under false pretenses. Changing the game is one thing, telling people that the game is going in one direction, when in fact decisions have already been made to do something entirely different is the legal issue.
Perhaps the clearest apparent example of this is encouraging people to buy the new expansion so that they can tame new creatures. Evidence suggests that SOE had already decided to remove creature taming from the game when they were promoting it. In other words, it seems they were promoting something they knew would not exist. That's why people feel that they were defrauded, not just because the game was changed. This really makes an important difference.
To give you an example, NCsoft made some changes to CoH when it introduced a crafting system and auction house. The system had significant implications for the game, real changes. They announced the changes well in advance of their implementation, and their actions were a perfect reflection of what they had announced. There was no deception whatsoever. No foul. In fact I would say this fits my understanding of actually "enhancing" a game. In contrast, SOE just had two dev chats telling people about great new things for various professions in the game as a whole, and in the new expansion specifically. Within 48 hours of the expansion going live, after people's visa payments had been finalized, SOE announced that despite what they said in these dev chats (in one case only 2 weeks earlier) most of the professions that had specifically been promised new things were in fact going to be deleted. You may be aware that SOE refunded money paid for the expansion. You may not be aware that subsription money paid to use the expansion and the promised new features was not refunded.
Another reason people continue talking about this is that there is still a strong feeling that someone got away with a crime here, and no one has yet been held legally accountable. There is a possiblity that this may change. If it does, I think it will give a lot of people the closure they're looking for.
Comments
In short, they ruined the game, I can live with that, but they also ripped several hundred thousand people off, and were completely unrepentant while doing so. SOE is a corrupt company that does not care about it's customers. Where I am from we take consumer rights quite seriously.
So, you like the game. Good for you. That does not have a thing to do with why I trash the name of SOE everytime someone has the luck of bringing them up.
Ha, last thread my arse...
Read my post I have stated clearly that both SOE and SWG=crap. I don't like the new SWG at all. I just think that its time for us veterans to move on. If you guys want to keep complaining about SWG go ahead, but please don't go crazy over it.
You can't say that civilization don't advance, however, for in every war they kill you in a new way.
-Will Rogers
"Thread to end all NGE threads" Yeah right like thats going to happen
Consumers can call a product crap , and tell others not to buy it. But when it goes on for three years, it seems like everybody already knows how bad the game is.
Are you telling me and others not to post, just because we have different opinions than you? That really sounds arrogant man.
He is not telling you what to do. he is saying that if YOU can't handle the opinions of others, if YOu are sick of it, if YOU are getting angry that it's gone on for this long, then maybe YOU need to remove yourself from the equation, get over it, and move on.
Ok then since you can't handle my opinion why don't you take your own advice and leave. Again I must ask you , what are you even arguing about? Are you arguing for the sake of arguing?
I can more than handle your opinion, in fact, you have yet to even deal with anything I have posted. I am answering your flaming, trollish posts quite nicely. I am arguing that you are not God and it is not up to YOU to determine "enough is enough," that that is up to the people and if such makes you angry or frustrated, perhaps you would be happier elsewhere.
I am not arguing for the sake of arguing; in fact, I am barely arguing in that what I am saying is so obvious. I am however countering everything you say quite nicely. You don't have a case and I have shown so.
Again I must say that I have already apologized for my first post.(I might as well go edit it). That is the only post I have made that I would call a flaming post, and I have already said that it was a poorly written post. I have said that I shouldn't be making commands, and that my first post sounded far too commanding.
So your argument that I don't have a case has no valid points. My case is clear. I think that its time for SWG veterans to move on. SWG is a horrible game, that will never become what it once was. If that wasn't the case SOE would of changed the game back to its original form, a month or so after the changes they made.
I will also quote a post I made on this thread, so you know exactly what I'm saying( no I'm not calling you stupid, I just want you to clearly understand what I'm saying).
You can't say that civilization don't advance, however, for in every war they kill you in a new way.
-Will Rogers
lol sorry about that sometimes I get too passionate about my views. I probably confused your two posts. I am clearly going crazy over this lol
, no sarcasm intended. I also apologize for telling SWG veterans to shut up. But I am tired of hearing your stories over a hundred times. I'm a SWG veteran for crying out loud, I've lived it. I've been through the CU and NGE. I know what you've been through. You guys have got to understand that. You guys have had 3 years to find a game to replace SWG. I am sorry if you haven't found any good mmorpgs. I myself couldn't find one to replace SWG, so I am playing single player games until a good one finally shows up.
This is the post I wanted everybody to read, including you Fishermage.
You can't say that civilization don't advance, however, for in every war they kill you in a new way.
-Will Rogers
Are you telling me and others not to post, just because we have different opinions than you? That really sounds arrogant man.
He is not telling you what to do. he is saying that if YOU can't handle the opinions of others, if YOu are sick of it, if YOU are getting angry that it's gone on for this long, then maybe YOU need to remove yourself from the equation, get over it, and move on.
Ok then since you can't handle my opinion why don't you take your own advice and leave. Again I must ask you , what are you even arguing about? Are you arguing for the sake of arguing?
I can more than handle your opinion, in fact, you have yet to even deal with anything I have posted. I am answering your flaming, trollish posts quite nicely. I am arguing that you are not God and it is not up to YOU to determine "enough is enough," that that is up to the people and if such makes you angry or frustrated, perhaps you would be happier elsewhere.
I am not arguing for the sake of arguing; in fact, I am barely arguing in that what I am saying is so obvious. I am however countering everything you say quite nicely. You don't have a case and I have shown so.
Again I must say that I have already apologized for my first post.(I might as well go edit it). That is the only post I have made that I would call a flaming post, and I have already said that it was a poorly written post. I have said that I shouldn't be making commands, and that my first post sounded far too commanding.
So your argument that I don't have a case has no valid points. My case is clear. I think that its time for SWG veterans to move on. SWG is a horrible game, that will never become what it once was. If that wasn't the case SOE would of changed the game back to its original form, a month or so after the changes they made.
I will also quote a post I made on this thread, so you know exactly what I'm saying( no I'm not calling you stupid, I just want you to clearly understand what I'm saying).
You are not God. It is not up to you to determine when enough is enough.
Your case is weak. You are claiming some right or power to determine for other people when enough is enough. You have no made a persuasive case for such being the case, and as such, your argument fails. You have apologized for your first post, but every time someone challenges you, you return to the same pattern of namecalling and demanding things you don't have the right to demand.
I know exactly what you are saying, but I and many others disagree with you, and we are not convinced by your commands.
fishermage.blogspot.com
lol sorry about that sometimes I get too passionate about my views. I probably confused your two posts. I am clearly going crazy over this lol , no sarcasm intended. I also apologize for telling SWG veterans to shut up. But I am tired of hearing your stories over a hundred times. I'm a SWG veteran for crying out loud, I've lived it. I've been through the CU and NGE. I know what you've been through. You guys have got to understand that. You guys have had 3 years to find a game to replace SWG. I am sorry if you haven't found any good mmorpgs. I myself couldn't find one to replace SWG, so I am playing single player games until a good one finally shows up.
This is the post I wanted everybody to read, including you Fishermage.
I read that and understand it. That is all good and well, but it doesn't change the issue that YOU have brought up and continue to argue over. It is not for YOU to decide when "enough is enough" for anyone but yourself. Once you understand that, you will be able to get over it yourself and move on.
fishermage.blogspot.com
lol sorry about that sometimes I get too passionate about my views. I probably confused your two posts. I am clearly going crazy over this lol , no sarcasm intended. I also apologize for telling SWG veterans to shut up. But I am tired of hearing your stories over a hundred times. I'm a SWG veteran for crying out loud, I've lived it. I've been through the CU and NGE. I know what you've been through. You guys have got to understand that. You guys have had 3 years to find a game to replace SWG. I am sorry if you haven't found any good mmorpgs. I myself couldn't find one to replace SWG, so I am playing single player games until a good one finally shows up.
This is the post I wanted everybody to read, including you Fishermage.
I read that and understand it. That is all good and well, but it doesn't change the issue that YOU have brought up and continue to argue over. It is not for YOU to decide when "enough is enough" for anyone but yourself. Once you understand that, you will be able to get over it yourself and move on.
let me go ahead and quote another post for you
You can't say that civilization don't advance, however, for in every war they kill you in a new way.
-Will Rogers
lol sorry about that sometimes I get too passionate about my views. I probably confused your two posts. I am clearly going crazy over this lol
, no sarcasm intended. I also apologize for telling SWG veterans to shut up. But I am tired of hearing your stories over a hundred times. I'm a SWG veteran for crying out loud, I've lived it. I've been through the CU and NGE. I know what you've been through. You guys have got to understand that. You guys have had 3 years to find a game to replace SWG. I am sorry if you haven't found any good mmorpgs. I myself couldn't find one to replace SWG, so I am playing single player games until a good one finally shows up.
You guys really need to read this post. You have clearly been avoiding it. It really states my point of view in a great way. It is not hostile at all unlike my first post. I apologize for my first post it was very blatant. I have apologized for my errors, but I will not withdraw my opinion, just like you guys won't take back yours. I have admitted that I was arrogant. But you guys have got to admit you guys acted the same way. I admire you for your tenacity, even though you will obviously not respect me either way. So if you call me an idiot who dosen't listen to anyones opinion then you are clearly hypocrites. Everybody is willing to defend their opinions to the death, you have no right to attack a person and not his opinion. I apologize, because I didn't abide by that rule, until my last 4 posts. Basicly an example of what happened on this forum is how people bash Al Gore and not Global Warming, just because they don't have a valid argument against it. I'm not saying that all of you don't have valid arguments, but a few of you have verbally attacked me. You don't know who I am, and I don't know who you guys are. Keep the debate going if you wish, but don't attack me, attack my opinion, which you haven't relized was changed a long time back. The post I made yesterday clearly states that I respect you guys. I know what you've been through.( I'm sick and tired of some of you saying I haven't played pre-cu SWG by the way). If I worked for SOE I wouldn't be calling SWG crap. Some of you really need to hear me out, because I've read all your posts, and I actually agree with some of you that have just made negative posts about my opnion. Like how one of you said that I shouldn't have made that sexist comment. I definitely shouldn't have made that comment. I apologized in my first post, but I must apologize again, because I greatly offended many of you. I also apologized for telling you to shut up. Yes I agree with you on that, who am I to be making commands
Here's the second post fishermage
You can't say that civilization don't advance, however, for in every war they kill you in a new way.
-Will Rogers
lol sorry about that sometimes I get too passionate about my views. I probably confused your two posts. I am clearly going crazy over this lol , no sarcasm intended. I also apologize for telling SWG veterans to shut up. But I am tired of hearing your stories over a hundred times. I'm a SWG veteran for crying out loud, I've lived it. I've been through the CU and NGE. I know what you've been through. You guys have got to understand that. You guys have had 3 years to find a game to replace SWG. I am sorry if you haven't found any good mmorpgs. I myself couldn't find one to replace SWG, so I am playing single player games until a good one finally shows up.
You guys really need to read this post. You have clearly been avoiding it. It really states my point of view in a great way. It is not hostile at all unlike my first post. I apologize for my first post it was very blatant. I have apologized for my errors, but I will not withdraw my opinion, just like you guys won't take back yours. I have admitted that I was arrogant. But you guys have got to admit you guys acted the same way. I admire you for your tenacity, even though you will obviously not respect me either way. So if you call me an idiot who dosen't listen to anyones opinion then you are clearly hypocrites. Everybody is willing to defend their opinions to the death, you have no right to attack a person and not his opinion. I apologize, because I didn't abide by that rule, until my last 4 posts. Basicly an example of what happened on this forum is how people bash Al Gore and not Global Warming, just because they don't have a valid argument against it. I'm not saying that all of you don't have valid arguments, but a few of you have verbally attacked me. You don't know who I am, and I don't know who you guys are. Keep the debate going if you wish, but don't attack me, attack my opinion, which you haven't relized was changed a long time back. The post I made yesterday clearly states that I respect you guys. I know what you've been through.( I'm sick and tired of some of you saying I haven't played pre-cu SWG by the way). If I worked for SOE I wouldn't be calling SWG crap. Some of you really need to hear me out, because I've read all your posts, and I actually agree with some of you that have just made negative posts about my opnion. Like how one of you said that I shouldn't have made that sexist comment. I definitely shouldn't have made that comment. I apologized in my first post, but I must apologize again, because I greatly offended many of you. I also apologized for telling you to shut up. Yes I agree with you on that, who am I to be making commands
Here's the second post fishermage
...and your point is?
If you agree you have no right or reason to decide for others when "enough is enough," why are you still posting in this thread? YOU are the one keeping it alive.
If you retract the very idea of your first post, and no longer agree that "enough is enough," isn't it time YOU moved on?
fishermage.blogspot.com
lol sorry about that sometimes I get too passionate about my views. I probably confused your two posts. I am clearly going crazy over this lol , no sarcasm intended. I also apologize for telling SWG veterans to shut up. But I am tired of hearing your stories over a hundred times. I'm a SWG veteran for crying out loud, I've lived it. I've been through the CU and NGE. I know what you've been through. You guys have got to understand that. You guys have had 3 years to find a game to replace SWG. I am sorry if you haven't found any good mmorpgs. I myself couldn't find one to replace SWG, so I am playing single player games until a good one finally shows up.
You guys really need to read this post. You have clearly been avoiding it. It really states my point of view in a great way. It is not hostile at all unlike my first post. I apologize for my first post it was very blatant. I have apologized for my errors, but I will not withdraw my opinion, just like you guys won't take back yours. I have admitted that I was arrogant. But you guys have got to admit you guys acted the same way. I admire you for your tenacity, even though you will obviously not respect me either way. So if you call me an idiot who dosen't listen to anyones opinion then you are clearly hypocrites. Everybody is willing to defend their opinions to the death, you have no right to attack a person and not his opinion. I apologize, because I didn't abide by that rule, until my last 4 posts. Basicly an example of what happened on this forum is how people bash Al Gore and not Global Warming, just because they don't have a valid argument against it. I'm not saying that all of you don't have valid arguments, but a few of you have verbally attacked me. You don't know who I am, and I don't know who you guys are. Keep the debate going if you wish, but don't attack me, attack my opinion, which you haven't relized was changed a long time back. The post I made yesterday clearly states that I respect you guys. I know what you've been through.( I'm sick and tired of some of you saying I haven't played pre-cu SWG by the way). If I worked for SOE I wouldn't be calling SWG crap. Some of you really need to hear me out, because I've read all your posts, and I actually agree with some of you that have just made negative posts about my opnion. Like how one of you said that I shouldn't have made that sexist comment. I definitely shouldn't have made that comment. I apologized in my first post, but I must apologize again, because I greatly offended many of you. I also apologized for telling you to shut up. Yes I agree with you on that, who am I to be making commands
Here's the second post fishermage
...and your point is?
If you agree you have no right or reason to decide for others when "enough is enough," why are you still posting in this thread? YOU are the one keeping it alive.
If you retract the very idea of your first post, and no longer agree that "enough is enough," isn't it time YOU moved on?
I am still posting in this thread, because I still have an opinion that differs from yours and many other SWG veterans. I still believe its time to move on, but I shouldn't be commanding anyone to do so. You on the other hand have been commanding me to leave this thread and my opinion behind. Don't deny it, you can't handle it when people have different opinions than you, who's the hypocrite now?
You can't say that civilization don't advance, however, for in every war they kill you in a new way.
-Will Rogers
this will not end well..
I agree to but talking to the people grasping to keep H8 alive its a futile effort. Others have said this including me. they dont care they think its the proper thing to do and they dont much care what they make other vets look like either. Nor do they care that their ultimate goal is to hurt the present player base with their anger and hatred. All they care about is the "me" factor and put that together with a 3 year long campaign of hatred you dont have a normal situation here. The best thing to do is just ignore it and carry on doing whatever it is your doing gamewise. Rationally talking to this small group is not really something that is viable. They feel justified in what they do and how they do it and how they make an entire community look as a result of it. They also feel justified in feeling that the correct thing is to have a game which a population that exists in the present does play and pay money for in fact they hate anyone who plays the present rendition of this game probably equally to the rest of the H8. Put it all together it spells "nonsense"
meh..
as I said this wil not end well..
lol sorry about that sometimes I get too passionate about my views. I probably confused your two posts. I am clearly going crazy over this lol , no sarcasm intended. I also apologize for telling SWG veterans to shut up. But I am tired of hearing your stories over a hundred times. I'm a SWG veteran for crying out loud, I've lived it. I've been through the CU and NGE. I know what you've been through. You guys have got to understand that. You guys have had 3 years to find a game to replace SWG. I am sorry if you haven't found any good mmorpgs. I myself couldn't find one to replace SWG, so I am playing single player games until a good one finally shows up.
You guys really need to read this post. You have clearly been avoiding it. It really states my point of view in a great way. It is not hostile at all unlike my first post. I apologize for my first post it was very blatant. I have apologized for my errors, but I will not withdraw my opinion, just like you guys won't take back yours. I have admitted that I was arrogant. But you guys have got to admit you guys acted the same way. I admire you for your tenacity, even though you will obviously not respect me either way. So if you call me an idiot who dosen't listen to anyones opinion then you are clearly hypocrites. Everybody is willing to defend their opinions to the death, you have no right to attack a person and not his opinion. I apologize, because I didn't abide by that rule, until my last 4 posts. Basicly an example of what happened on this forum is how people bash Al Gore and not Global Warming, just because they don't have a valid argument against it. I'm not saying that all of you don't have valid arguments, but a few of you have verbally attacked me. You don't know who I am, and I don't know who you guys are. Keep the debate going if you wish, but don't attack me, attack my opinion, which you haven't relized was changed a long time back. The post I made yesterday clearly states that I respect you guys. I know what you've been through.( I'm sick and tired of some of you saying I haven't played pre-cu SWG by the way). If I worked for SOE I wouldn't be calling SWG crap. Some of you really need to hear me out, because I've read all your posts, and I actually agree with some of you that have just made negative posts about my opnion. Like how one of you said that I shouldn't have made that sexist comment. I definitely shouldn't have made that comment. I apologized in my first post, but I must apologize again, because I greatly offended many of you. I also apologized for telling you to shut up. Yes I agree with you on that, who am I to be making commands
Here's the second post fishermage
...and your point is?
If you agree you have no right or reason to decide for others when "enough is enough," why are you still posting in this thread? YOU are the one keeping it alive.
If you retract the very idea of your first post, and no longer agree that "enough is enough," isn't it time YOU moved on?
I am still posting in this thread, because I still have an opinion that differs from yours and many other SWG veterans. I still believe its time to move on, but I shouldn't be commanding anyone to do so. You on the other hand have been commanding me to leave this thread and my opinion behind. Don't deny it, you can't handle it when people have different opinions than you, who's the hypocrite now?
Now it is YOU who are not reading. Everything I have said was in the "if-then" format. If you can't handle the opinions of others, THEN perhaps the internet if not the right place for you, and it is time for you to move on.
I am quite comfortable with your opinion, it doesn't bother me in the least -- I just find it weak and unconvincing.
fishermage.blogspot.com
Nope, not calling your entire argument a rant. Just making a confession related to some of my own posts in the past. I think a lot of us have failed to choose our words carefully from time to time in the heat of the moment.
Also, I think the point about holding grudges is a good one. Nurturing resentment can have some nasty side effects. Encouraging people to revinvest in something they enjoy also sounds like a fine suggestion.
Where I respectfully see things differently is that ongoing posts are not all related to resentment or a failure to find something else that's enjoyable. I see many as well intentioned consumer advocacy. Granted some people won't appreciate that, but I think many gamers will.
Or you could say one simple statement to those who want to know what SWG is like. " There were major changes in the game, and now it is bad". Very simple and to the point. There is no need to call anybody evil or say that you want to kill someone etc...
Lying and cheating people IS evil; no it's not bigtime Hitler eveil, but it is certainly evil. Why do you seek to control the speech of others in this way? Why not let people say what they wish?
If you can't handle it, then the internet is really the wrong place for you.
Now, who has said that they REALLy want to kill anyone over this, and meant it? I'd like to see that post.
Where did you come from?. I sense a I'd advise you to first look up the word evil . Next lose that attitude. After that become literate so you can read my post properly. I didn't say that people acutally meant that they wanted to kill someone over this. But murders have happened over video-games before, and this argument against the NGE and SOE is getting out of of hand.
Evil is not something one can LOOK UP -- it has been debated as long as man has been around. If you don't feel lying is evil, and cheating people is evil, you afre entitled to that moral view. We'll have to agree to disagree. I personaly believe that any willful violation of anyone else is evil, and there are degrees of evil, murder is worse than armed robbery, armed robbery is worse than burglary, burglary is worse than cheating, and cheating is worse than lying -- but all are forms of what we call evil.
I've been here all along; thanks for the personal attacks. How about actually dealing with what I have said. I never troll. The only trolling I see here is coming from you, starting with your OP.
Who are YOU to determine when a discussion is out of hand? Again, it seems you have a definite problem with the opinions of others. I suggest you leave the internet at once -- it was designed for peope to actually DISCUSS things.
If-then format my ass. Like you said in this post if you have a definite opinion with the opinions of others you should leave the internet at once. Take your own advice and leave.
You can't say that civilization don't advance, however, for in every war they kill you in a new way.
-Will Rogers
meh..
as I said this wil not end well..
I am part of the current playerbase and I have never felt the least bit "hurt" by anyone's negative opinion of SOE and the unethical thing they did with the NGE. I fully understand that SOE deserves what it gets for what they did.
The DEVs continue to make the same mistakes over and over again, and have shown time and again they have learned nothing from the NGE. I will continue to criticize them while I play the game; to me, that is the position I feel most comfortable with; a knowledgeable critic.
I support many different views in this and don't feel anyone who plays the game should feel offended by anything anyone who doesn't play the game says about us or the game. It's all good in freedom.
fishermage.blogspot.com
I agree to but talking to the people grasping to keep H8 alive its a futile effort. Others have said this including me. they dont care they think its the proper thing to do and they dont much care what they make other vets look like either. Nor do they care that their ultimate goal is to hurt the present player base with their anger and hatred. All they care about is the "me" factor and put that together with a 3 year long campaign of hatred you dont have a normal situation here. The best thing to do is just ignore it and carry on doing whatever it is your doing gamewise. Rationally talking to this small group is not really something that is viable. They feel justified in what they do and how they do it and how they make an entire community look as a result of it. They also feel justified in feeling that the correct thing is to have a game which a population that exists in the present does play and pay money for in fact they hate anyone who plays the present rendition of this game probably equally to the rest of the H8. Put it all together it spells "nonsense"
meh..
as I said this wil not end well..
I am part of the current playerbase and I have never felt the least bit "hurt" by anyone's negative opinion of SOE and the unethical thing they did with the NGE. I fully understand that SOE deserves what it gets for what they did.
The DEVs continue to make the same mistakes over and over again, and have shown time and again they have learned nothing from the NGE. I will continue to criticize them while I play the game; to me, that is the position I feel most comfortable with; a knowledgeable critic.
I support many different views in this and don't feel anyone who plays the game should feel offended by anything anyone who doesn't play the game says about us or the game. It's all good in freedom.
Who plays a game they love to bash? That's like me playing an Asian grinder and calling it crap at the same time. Are you making up stories, because you ran out of tactics, to keep the discussion going?
You can't say that civilization don't advance, however, for in every war they kill you in a new way.
-Will Rogers
Also, I think the point about holding grudges is a good one. Nurturing resentment can have some nasty side effects. Encouraging people to revinvest in something they enjoy also sounds like a fine suggestion.
Where I respectfully see things differently is that ongoing posts are not all related to resentment or a failure to find something else that's enjoyable. I see many as well intentioned consumer advocacy. Granted some people won't appreciate that, but I think many gamers will.
, gamers appreciate reviews by previous customers. I just think they could write those reviews a little better. I mean come on now, have you read a single review of SWG that dosen't call SOE evil? A better way to state why the game is bad is to list how things were before, and how they are now. Saying SOE is evil makes people sound like lunatics. I'm sorry, but I can't take someone who calls a company evil seriously. You could just say that SOE is a bad company.
Or you could say one simple statement to those who want to know what SWG is like. " There were major changes in the game, and now it is bad". Very simple and to the point. There is no need to call anybody evil or say that you want to kill someone etc...
Lying and cheating people IS evil; no it's not bigtime Hitler eveil, but it is certainly evil. Why do you seek to control the speech of others in this way? Why not let people say what they wish?
If you can't handle it, then the internet is really the wrong place for you.
Now, who has said that they REALLy want to kill anyone over this, and meant it? I'd like to see that post.
Where did you come from?. I sense a I'd advise you to first look up the word evil . Next lose that attitude. After that become literate so you can read my post properly. I didn't say that people acutally meant that they wanted to kill someone over this. But murders have happened over video-games before, and this argument against the NGE and SOE is getting out of of hand.
Evil is not something one can LOOK UP -- it has been debated as long as man has been around. If you don't feel lying is evil, and cheating people is evil, you afre entitled to that moral view. We'll have to agree to disagree. I personaly believe that any willful violation of anyone else is evil, and there are degrees of evil, murder is worse than armed robbery, armed robbery is worse than burglary, burglary is worse than cheating, and cheating is worse than lying -- but all are forms of what we call evil.
I've been here all along; thanks for the personal attacks. How about actually dealing with what I have said. I never troll. The only trolling I see here is coming from you, starting with your OP.
Who are YOU to determine when a discussion is out of hand? Again, it seems you have a definite problem with the opinions of others. I suggest you leave the internet at once -- it was designed for peope to actually DISCUSS things.
If-then format my ass. Like you said in this post if you have a definite opinion with the opinions of others you should leave the internet at once. Take your own advice and leave.
You are not reading again. I said if you have a PROBLEM with the views of others, then perhaps the internet is not for you. I have no problems with anyone's opinions; they can't harm me in the least. I cherish our freedoms and our rights to opinions. If I disagree, I will do so without any problems at all, as I have done.
fishermage.blogspot.com
meh..
as I said this wil not end well..
I am part of the current playerbase and I have never felt the least bit "hurt" by anyone's negative opinion of SOE and the unethical thing they did with the NGE. I fully understand that SOE deserves what it gets for what they did.
The DEVs continue to make the same mistakes over and over again, and have shown time and again they have learned nothing from the NGE. I will continue to criticize them while I play the game; to me, that is the position I feel most comfortable with; a knowledgeable critic.
I support many different views in this and don't feel anyone who plays the game should feel offended by anything anyone who doesn't play the game says about us or the game. It's all good in freedom.
Who plays a game they love to bash? That's like me playing an Asian grinder and calling it crap at the same time. Are you making up stories, because you ran out of tactics, to keep the discussion going?
I have explained on many occasions, I play the game because there are still a few things about it I enjoy; I also have some friends who still play and a good guild.
I also love Star Wars, and this game is a monopoly. Also, I want to see how it all ends, and provide everyone with a running commentary on the fiasco. It is an enjoyable diversion.
I don't "love to bash" the game, in fact, I wish I could praise the game; and I am quick to do so, when they do something right. I am a vocal critic however when they do the wrong thing.
I'm not using any "tactics,"I don't need any, simple, straightforward responses are good enough for me.
fishermage.blogspot.com
Nope, not calling your entire argument a rant. Just making a confession related to some of my own posts in the past. I think a lot of us have failed to choose our words carefully from time to time in the heat of the moment.
Also, I think the point about holding grudges is a good one. Nurturing resentment can have some nasty side effects. Encouraging people to revinvest in something they enjoy also sounds like a fine suggestion.
Where I respectfully see things differently is that ongoing posts are not all related to resentment or a failure to find something else that's enjoyable. I see many as well intentioned consumer advocacy. Granted some people won't appreciate that, but I think many gamers will.
, gamers appreciate reviews by previous customers. I just think they could write those reviews a little better. I mean come on now, have you read a single review of SWG that dosen't call SOE evil? A better way to state why the game is bad is to list how things were before, and how they are now. Saying SOE is evil makes people sound like lunatics. I'm sorry, but I can't take someone who calls a company evil seriously. You could just say that SOE is a bad company.
Or you could say one simple statement to those who want to know what SWG is like. " There were major changes in the game, and now it is bad". Very simple and to the point. There is no need to call anybody evil or say that you want to kill someone etc...
Lying and cheating people IS evil; no it's not bigtime Hitler eveil, but it is certainly evil. Why do you seek to control the speech of others in this way? Why not let people say what they wish?
If you can't handle it, then the internet is really the wrong place for you.
Now, who has said that they REALLy want to kill anyone over this, and meant it? I'd like to see that post.
Where did you come from?. I sense a I'd advise you to first look up the word evil . Next lose that attitude. After that become literate so you can read my post properly. I didn't say that people acutally meant that they wanted to kill someone over this. But murders have happened over video-games before, and this argument against the NGE and SOE is getting out of of hand.
Evil is not something one can LOOK UP -- it has been debated as long as man has been around. If you don't feel lying is evil, and cheating people is evil, you afre entitled to that moral view. We'll have to agree to disagree. I personaly believe that any willful violation of anyone else is evil, and there are degrees of evil, murder is worse than armed robbery, armed robbery is worse than burglary, burglary is worse than cheating, and cheating is worse than lying -- but all are forms of what we call evil.
I've been here all along; thanks for the personal attacks. How about actually dealing with what I have said. I never troll. The only trolling I see here is coming from you, starting with your OP.
Who are YOU to determine when a discussion is out of hand? Again, it seems you have a definite problem with the opinions of others. I suggest you leave the internet at once -- it was designed for peope to actually DISCUSS things.
If-then format my ass. Like you said in this post if you have a definite opinion with the opinions of others you should leave the internet at once. Take your own advice and leave.
You are not reading again. I said if you have a PROBLEM with the views of others, then perhaps the internet is not for you. I have no problems with anyone's opinions; they can't harm me in the least. I cherish our freedoms and our rights to opinions. If I disagree, I will do so without any problems at all, as I have done.
Well then I apologize. Some of your posts have just sounded hostile. Since this entire discussion has turned into a debate between you and me lets take this to tells.
You can't say that civilization don't advance, however, for in every war they kill you in a new way.
-Will Rogers
Also, I think the point about holding grudges is a good one. Nurturing resentment can have some nasty side effects. Encouraging people to revinvest in something they enjoy also sounds like a fine suggestion.
Where I respectfully see things differently is that ongoing posts are not all related to resentment or a failure to find something else that's enjoyable. I see many as well intentioned consumer advocacy. Granted some people won't appreciate that, but I think many gamers will.
, gamers appreciate reviews by previous customers. I just think they could write those reviews a little better. I mean come on now, have you read a single review of SWG that dosen't call SOE evil? A better way to state why the game is bad is to list how things were before, and how they are now. Saying SOE is evil makes people sound like lunatics. I'm sorry, but I can't take someone who calls a company evil seriously. You could just say that SOE is a bad company.
Or you could say one simple statement to those who want to know what SWG is like. " There were major changes in the game, and now it is bad". Very simple and to the point. There is no need to call anybody evil or say that you want to kill someone etc...
Lying and cheating people IS evil; no it's not bigtime Hitler eveil, but it is certainly evil. Why do you seek to control the speech of others in this way? Why not let people say what they wish?
If you can't handle it, then the internet is really the wrong place for you.
Now, who has said that they REALLy want to kill anyone over this, and meant it? I'd like to see that post.
Where did you come from?. I sense a I'd advise you to first look up the word evil . Next lose that attitude. After that become literate so you can read my post properly. I didn't say that people acutally meant that they wanted to kill someone over this. But murders have happened over video-games before, and this argument against the NGE and SOE is getting out of of hand.
Evil is not something one can LOOK UP -- it has been debated as long as man has been around. If you don't feel lying is evil, and cheating people is evil, you afre entitled to that moral view. We'll have to agree to disagree. I personaly believe that any willful violation of anyone else is evil, and there are degrees of evil, murder is worse than armed robbery, armed robbery is worse than burglary, burglary is worse than cheating, and cheating is worse than lying -- but all are forms of what we call evil.
I've been here all along; thanks for the personal attacks. How about actually dealing with what I have said. I never troll. The only trolling I see here is coming from you, starting with your OP.
Who are YOU to determine when a discussion is out of hand? Again, it seems you have a definite problem with the opinions of others. I suggest you leave the internet at once -- it was designed for peope to actually DISCUSS things.
If-then format my ass. Like you said in this post if you have a definite opinion with the opinions of others you should leave the internet at once. Take your own advice and leave.
You are not reading again. I said if you have a PROBLEM with the views of others, then perhaps the internet is not for you. I have no problems with anyone's opinions; they can't harm me in the least. I cherish our freedoms and our rights to opinions. If I disagree, I will do so without any problems at all, as I have done.
Well then I apologize. Some of your posts have just sounded hostile. Since this entire discussion has turned into a debate between you and me lets take this to tells.
apology accepted; no harmno foul. Send me a tell anytime
fishermage.blogspot.com
I want to make a point here about SWG. It is fully ignored by Lucas Arts. It doesn't even make the Star Wars news web page page or the Star Wars newsletter. There are no stories or lore that envelop this game within the Lucas Arts world besides one little book. Lucas Arts puts no backing into the game at all. So if Lucas Arts has no intension with SWG then I won't either. And neither does the Millions of Star Wars fans. Lets bury it for good. And move on. SOE should never have developed that piece of crap and neither should of changed it. They haven't learned because now they are going to push what is left of the SOE station pass subscriber into micro transactions and kiddie games and subs are going to drop again based on the reality that SOE is led by idiots who take risks that were made for failure. So yes I say continue the debate but not slam each other to say who is wrong or right.
I am a consumer and I endorse my message with my business elsewhere. I will say that Lucas Arts should get their act together for a new MMORPG that is not released bugged, made for idiots, unfinished, or ran by SOE's half arse approach of old.
I agree to but talking to the people grasping to keep H8 alive its a futile effort. Others have said this including me. they dont care they think its the proper thing to do and they dont much care what they make other vets look like either. Nor do they care that their ultimate goal is to hurt the present player base with their anger and hatred. All they care about is the "me" factor and put that together with a 3 year long campaign of hatred you dont have a normal situation here. The best thing to do is just ignore it and carry on doing whatever it is your doing gamewise. Rationally talking to this small group is not really something that is viable. They feel justified in what they do and how they do it and how they make an entire community look as a result of it. They also feel justified in feeling that the correct thing is to have a game which a population that exists in the present does play and pay money for in fact they hate anyone who plays the present rendition of this game probably equally to the rest of the H8. Put it all together it spells "nonsense"
meh..
as I said this wil not end well..
I am part of the current playerbase and I have never felt the least bit "hurt" by anyone's negative opinion of SOE and the unethical thing they did with the NGE. I fully understand that SOE deserves what it gets for what they did.
The DEVs continue to make the same mistakes over and over again, and have shown time and again they have learned nothing from the NGE. I will continue to criticize them while I play the game; to me, that is the position I feel most comfortable with; a knowledgeable critic.
I support many different views in this and don't feel anyone who plays the game should feel offended by anything anyone who doesn't play the game says about us or the game. It's all good in freedom.
Who plays a game they love to bash? That's like me playing an Asian grinder and calling it crap at the same time. Are you making up stories, because you ran out of tactics, to keep the discussion going?
I have explained on many occasions, I play the game because there are still a few things about it I enjoy; I also have some friends who still play and a good guild.
I also love Star Wars, and this game is a monopoly. Also, I want to see how it all ends, and provide everyone with a running commentary on the fiasco. It is an enjoyable diversion.
I don't "love to bash" the game, in fact, I wish I could praise the game; and I am quick to do so, when they do something right. I am a vocal critic however when they do the wrong thing.
I'm not using any "tactics,"I don't need any, simple, straightforward responses are good enough for me.
Great post. It would of been great if you said this at the start of this discussion. I would of respected you a lot more and taken you seriously. This discussion has gone on for far too long.
You can't say that civilization don't advance, however, for in every war they kill you in a new way.
-Will Rogers
Here is the message:
You state that it is impossible to change the minds of SOE (and LA), well if it is as such, then it is beyond impossible to change the minds of the masses, ie: former customers by yourself. This thread is a proven demonstration.
As you have properly stated, "SOE is a crap company that doesn't listen to its customers." And thus the reason why so many of us continue to bash SOE, unless of course some changes in policies occur.
Why do you make statements against the disgruntled when you agree to their points of view?
And that is why...
Conservatives' pessimism is conducive to their happiness in three ways. First, they are rarely surprised -- they are right more often than not about the course of events. Second, when they are wrong they are happy to be so. Third, because pessimistic conservatives put not their faith in princes -- government -- they accept that happiness is a function of fending for oneself. They believe that happiness is an activity -- it is inseparable from the pursuit of happiness.
Here is the message:
You state that it is impossible to change the minds of SOE (and LA), well if it is as such, then it is beyond impossible to change the minds of the masses, ie: former customers by yourself. This thread is a proven demonstration.
As you have properly stated, "SOE is a crap company that doesn't listen to its customers." And thus the reason why so many of us continue to bash SOE, unless of course some changes in policies occur.
Why do you make statements against the disgruntled when you agree to their points of view?
I agree with their point of view on how SOE is a bad company that deserves to be punished. But in my opinion SOE is punishing itself. I believe that they are doing our job for us, by making even more terrible mistakes. I don't believe that it's necessary to bash them, because they are destroying themselves, and continue to do so.
You can't say that civilization don't advance, however, for in every war they kill you in a new way.
-Will Rogers
That's not what he's saying at all.However, the sheer venom, the completely outrageous statements people make (I believe my favorite was the one that said John Smedley should be jailed), the absolute HATE (yes, HATE) for current SWG players ... all that three years after the fact, is, to be frank, rather pathetic.
I've seen people get over very painful divorces in less time than it has taken some of the people on this board to get over pre-CU.
Ding Ding Ding...winner
Well tbh I know one guy who thinks Smed should be jailed, but that thinking isn't motivated by hate. He really just thinks the guy committed fraud on a fairly massive scale, and should be held accountable for that.
Also, saying that this is all about something that happened 3 years ago is misleading. If you look at a number of threads on these boards, you'll notice that people highlight what appears to be a longstanding pattern of poor customer relations.
Further, I don't know that people feel hatred for current SWG players. I know I certainly don't, as some of them are my friends. I do know, however, that it is very divisive when you take something from one group, redesign it and give it to another. I'm aware that players didn't do this. Rather this whole target audience conflict was sparked by the actions SOE and LEC.
Possible solutions to mend this rift have been put forward to SOE and LEC, but they have not been implemented, sadly.
Very well said. But the reason I said it was something that happened three years ago, is because it is a game. Games are games, they shouldn't be taking so seriously. The argument against the NGE is really getting out of hand. Just like how there were some real life murders by players in Lineage 2 clans. You may think these threats against SOE employers are all jokes. But you will be surprised how crazy some people let themselves become over a game(ex. The Lineage 2 incidents). You should be angry about the NGE, I'm not telling you not to be, but don't let it make you a mindless person that just wants to destroy SOE and SWG. Control your anger, and be open to other viewpoints. And don't have blind devotion to something.
Thankfully the poster above stated his opinion clearly and well. The only thing I'd have to disagree on is the highlights on poor customer relations by SOE. If you hate SOE don't buy anything from them, that's how you can stop them. You don't have to try to destroy them, they are destroying themselves. Don't talk to them, and watch them fall.
I think there's something to the idea, "don't talk to them, and watch them fall." Talking to them really just adds to the frustration in my experience. I tried open and respectful communication for months, and it got me nowhere. Well it got my posts moved, deleted, locked etc.Also, if people are really convinced that an injustice took place, certainly taking the personal vengeance route can only end in tears. I have posted another thread that explains where people can take their complaints to authorities who are listening, and have the power to intervene if the right conditions are met. These would not be complaints about a lost video game, however, they would be about money taken via misleading marketting (i.e. fraud allegations).
Wow this thread has really grown 0_o. Anyways, what SOE cannot do (legally) is intentionally mislead people about the game's development and take subscription money under false pretenses. Changing the game is one thing, telling people that the game is going in one direction, when in fact decisions have already been made to do something entirely different is the legal issue.
Perhaps the clearest apparent example of this is encouraging people to buy the new expansion so that they can tame new creatures. Evidence suggests that SOE had already decided to remove creature taming from the game when they were promoting it. In other words, it seems they were promoting something they knew would not exist. That's why people feel that they were defrauded, not just because the game was changed. This really makes an important difference.
To give you an example, NCsoft made some changes to CoH when it introduced a crafting system and auction house. The system had significant implications for the game, real changes. They announced the changes well in advance of their implementation, and their actions were a perfect reflection of what they had announced. There was no deception whatsoever. No foul. In fact I would say this fits my understanding of actually "enhancing" a game. In contrast, SOE just had two dev chats telling people about great new things for various professions in the game as a whole, and in the new expansion specifically. Within 48 hours of the expansion going live, after people's visa payments had been finalized, SOE announced that despite what they said in these dev chats (in one case only 2 weeks earlier) most of the professions that had specifically been promised new things were in fact going to be deleted. You may be aware that SOE refunded money paid for the expansion. You may not be aware that subsription money paid to use the expansion and the promised new features was not refunded.
Another reason people continue talking about this is that there is still a strong feeling that someone got away with a crime here, and no one has yet been held legally accountable. There is a possiblity that this may change. If it does, I think it will give a lot of people the closure they're looking for.