Originally posted by ThaneB Originally posted by Fishermage
Originally posted by ThaneB
Originally posted by ArcAngel3
Originally posted by ThaneB
Originally posted by ArcAngel3
Originally posted by hipiap
Originally posted by kobie173
That's not what he's saying at all. However, the sheer venom, the completely outrageous statements people make (I believe my favorite was the one that said John Smedley should be jailed), the absolute HATE (yes, HATE) for current SWG players ... all that three years after the fact, is, to be frank, rather pathetic.
I've seen people get over very painful divorces in less time than it has taken some of the people on this board to get over pre-CU.
Ding Ding Ding...winner Well tbh I know one guy who thinks Smed should be jailed, but that thinking isn't motivated by hate. He really just thinks the guy committed fraud on a fairly massive scale, and should be held accountable for that.
Also, saying that this is all about something that happened 3 years ago is misleading. If you look at a number of threads on these boards, you'll notice that people highlight what appears to be a longstanding pattern of poor customer relations. Further, I don't know that people feel hatred for current SWG players. I know I certainly don't, as some of them are my friends. I do know, however, that it is very divisive when you take something from one group, redesign it and give it to another. I'm aware that players didn't do this. Rather this whole target audience conflict was sparked by the actions SOE and LEC. Possible solutions to mend this rift have been put forward to SOE and LEC, but they have not been implemented, sadly.
Very well said. But the reason I said it was something that happened three years ago, is because it is a game. Games are games, they shouldn't be taking so seriously. The argument against the NGE is really getting out of hand. Just like how there were some real life murders by players in Lineage 2 clans. You may think these threats against SOE employers are all jokes. But you will be surprised how crazy some people let themselves become over a game(ex. The Lineage 2 incidents). You should be angry about the NGE, I'm not telling you not to be, but don't let it make you a mindless person that just wants to destroy SOE and SWG. Control your anger, and be open to other viewpoints. And don't have blind devotion to something. Thankfully the poster above stated his opinion clearly and well. The only thing I'd have to disagree on is the highlights on poor customer relations by SOE. If you hate SOE don't buy anything from them, that's how you can stop them. You don't have to try to destroy them, they are destroying themselves. Don't talk to them, and watch them fall.I think there's something to the idea, "don't talk to them, and watch them fall." Talking to them really just adds to the frustration in my experience. I tried open and respectful communication for months, and it got me nowhere. Well it got my posts moved, deleted, locked etc.
Also, if people are really convinced that an injustice took place, certainly taking the personal vengeance route can only end in tears. I have posted another thread that explains where people can take their complaints to authorities who are listening, and have the power to intervene if the right conditions are met. These would not be complaints about a lost video game, however, they would be about money taken via misleading marketting (i.e. fraud allegations). SOE ruined a great game, but talking to them won't make them change their minds. I mean it's been three years, if they were going to change their minds, they would of done it a few years back when SWG subscriber numbers were starting to diminish. The problem with taking to this to authorities is that mmorpgs are dynamic. They are supposed to always change and be a living world. So you can't you really say that SOE made too many changes, so we deserve our money back.
Actually you CAN argue that; such changes are only allowed, in that the EULA agreement is a non-negotiated contract between partis, only to what would be a reasonable person standard. If the actions of SOE went beyond a reasonable person's standard, then they went beyond what is legal. That would be up to the authorities and the courts to decide over time; this is a VERY new area of law. We shall see. Regulation is often the result of abuse such as we have seen here. Fair enough, please if your information is correct try to take this up with the authorities( no sarcasm). There's no need to post on the forums, if what you say is true.
Sorry, I choose to exercise my freedom and post. If you don't like that, or can't handle it perhaps the internet is not for you (no sarcasm either).
However, the sheer venom, the completely outrageous statements people make (I believe my favorite was the one that said John Smedley should be jailed), the absolute HATE (yes, HATE) for current SWG players ... all that three years after the fact, is, to be frank, rather pathetic.
I've seen people get over very painful divorces in less time than it has taken some of the people on this board to get over pre-CU.
Ding Ding Ding...winner
Well tbh I know one guy who thinks Smed should be jailed, but that thinking isn't motivated by hate. He really just thinks the guy committed fraud on a fairly massive scale, and should be held accountable for that.
Also, saying that this is all about something that happened 3 years ago is misleading. If you look at a number of threads on these boards, you'll notice that people highlight what appears to be a longstanding pattern of poor customer relations.
Further, I don't know that people feel hatred for current SWG players. I know I certainly don't, as some of them are my friends. I do know, however, that it is very divisive when you take something from one group, redesign it and give it to another. I'm aware that players didn't do this. Rather this whole target audience conflict was sparked by the actions SOE and LEC.
Possible solutions to mend this rift have been put forward to SOE and LEC, but they have not been implemented, sadly.
Very well said. But the reason I said it was something that happened three years ago, is because it is a game. Games are games, they shouldn't be taking so seriously. The argument against the NGE is really getting out of hand. Just like how there were some real life murders by players in Lineage 2 clans. You may think these threats against SOE employers are all jokes. But you will be surprised how crazy some people let themselves become over a game(ex. The Lineage 2 incidents). You should be angry about the NGE, I'm not telling you not to be, but don't let it make you a mindless person that just wants to destroy SOE and SWG. Control your anger, and be open to other viewpoints. And don't have blind devotion to something.
Thankfully the poster above stated his opinion clearly and well. The only thing I'd have to disagree on is the highlights on poor customer relations by SOE. If you hate SOE don't buy anything from them, that's how you can stop them. You don't have to try to destroy them, they are destroying themselves. Don't talk to them, and watch them fall.
I think there's something to the idea, "don't talk to them, and watch them fall." Talking to them really just adds to the frustration in my experience. I tried open and respectful communication for months, and it got me nowhere. Well it got my posts moved, deleted, locked etc.
Also, if people are really convinced that an injustice took place, certainly taking the personal vengeance route can only end in tears. I have posted another thread that explains where people can take their complaints to authorities who are listening, and have the power to intervene if the right conditions are met. These would not be complaints about a lost video game, however, they would be about money taken via misleading marketting (i.e. fraud allegations).
SOE ruined a great game, but talking to them won't make them change their minds. I mean it's been three years, if they were going to change their minds, they would of done it a few years back when SWG subscriber numbers were starting to diminish. The problem with taking to this to authorities is that mmorpgs are dynamic. They are supposed to always change and be a living world. So you can't you really say that SOE made too many changes, so we deserve our money back.
Actually you CAN argue that; such changes are only allowed, in that the EULA agreement is a non-negotiated contract between partis, only to what would be a reasonable person standard. If the actions of SOE went beyond a reasonable person's standard, then they went beyond what is legal.
That would be up to the authorities and the courts to decide over time; this is a VERY new area of law. We shall see. Regulation is often the result of abuse such as we have seen here.
Fair enough, please if your information is correct try to take this up with the authorities( no sarcasm). There's no need to post on the forums, if what you say is true.
Sorry, I choose to exercise my freedom and post. If you don't like that, or can't handle it perhaps the internet is not for you (no sarcasm either).
You have the right to post, but I'm tired of you posting just to flame me. If you have an actual opinion then post it. I'm sorry, but at the moment I have no clue what you are arguing against.
You can't say that civilization don't advance, however, for in every war they kill you in a new way. -Will Rogers
Thank you for that. Are you calling my entire argument a rant though? I didn't apologize to state that I was defeated and everyone against me was right. I was just saying that I didn't state my opinion originally like I should have. Either way though people would have bashed me anyway.
Nope, not calling your entire argument a rant. Just making a confession related to some of my own posts in the past. I think a lot of us have failed to choose our words carefully from time to time in the heat of the moment.
Also, I think the point about holding grudges is a good one. Nurturing resentment can have some nasty side effects. Encouraging people to revinvest in something they enjoy also sounds like a fine suggestion.
Where I respectfully see things differently is that ongoing posts are not all related to resentment or a failure to find something else that's enjoyable. I see many as well intentioned consumer advocacy. Granted some people won't appreciate that, but I think many gamers will.
, gamers appreciate reviews by previous customers. I just think they could write those reviews a little better. I mean come on now, have you read a single review of SWG that dosen't call SOE evil? A better way to state why the game is bad is to list how things were before, and how they are now. Saying SOE is evil makes people sound like lunatics. I'm sorry, but I can't take someone who calls a company evil seriously. You could just say that SOE is a bad company.
Or you could say one simple statement to those who want to know what SWG is like. " There were major changes in the game, and now it is bad". Very simple and to the point. There is no need to call anybody evil or say that you want to kill someone etc...
Lying and cheating people IS evil; no it's not bigtime Hitler eveil, but it is certainly evil. Why do you seek to control the speech of others in this way? Why not let people say what they wish?
If you can't handle it, then the internet is really the wrong place for you.
Now, who has said that they REALLy want to kill anyone over this, and meant it? I'd like to see that post.
Where did you come from?. I sense a I'd advise you to first look up the word evil . Next lose that attitude. After that become literate so you can read my post properly. I didn't say that people acutally meant that they wanted to kill someone over this. But murders have happened over video-games before, and this argument against the NGE and SOE is getting out of of hand.
Evil is not something one can LOOK UP -- it has been debated as long as man has been around. If you don't feel lying is evil, and cheating people is evil, you afre entitled to that moral view. We'll have to agree to disagree. I personaly believe that any willful violation of anyone else is evil, and there are degrees of evil, murder is worse than armed robbery, armed robbery is worse than burglary, burglary is worse than cheating, and cheating is worse than lying -- but all are forms of what we call evil.
I've been here all along; thanks for the personal attacks. How about actually dealing with what I have said. I never troll. The only trolling I see here is coming from you, starting with your OP.
Who are YOU to determine when a discussion is out of hand? Again, it seems you have a definite problem with the opinions of others. I suggest you leave the internet at once -- it was designed for peope to actually DISCUSS things.
Bashing me for making a personal attack after you made a personal attack. Nice tactic too bad it will never work .I've been debating with everyone on this thread except you, you know why? Because you have just flamed me the entire time. Barely anyone on this thread has so far agreed with me, but I'm still speaking with them, and listening to them.
You can't say that civilization don't advance, however, for in every war they kill you in a new way. -Will Rogers
After going round and round with Fisher not too long ago we took it to tells...and still couldnt agree on the format of things.
He is....well "different"...and not meaning in a bad way. Just in the way of...not like the people I normally associate with in RL.
I will say this...I think he cares more about having his game taken then he tries to let on...and thus "attacks" people in his own way....while trying to appear passive.
Of all the vets I have listened to...not to mention their whining over the past 2.5 yrs...I gotta admit he remains my favorite and someone I actually like.
Even if we dont agree on the subject of SOE/SWG.
Anyways here is one for SWG vets,,,,right now there is a crooked government in WVa. Dont know if you saw the Heather Bresch(governors daughter) news things about bogus degrees etc. Their main University(WVU) is under control of people(Garrison and cronies) that act unaware that they are destroying the academic reputation...and are unwilling to step down. We wont even get into the Good Ole Boy Network that runs the state,
They could use help getting the word out to everyone about how corrupt things are.
It has been almost 3 yrs now...put your efforts into something that will affect things more profoundly than a game.
Fisher once told me I should make suggestions to help vets if I dont agree with em. So here it is....a chance to use your campaigning for something positive in this world.
As an FYI....I am a lifelong Michigan fan(over 30 yrs). Lets just say WVU and Michigan fans dont like each other much due to coach issues. But this transcends that...thus I am trying to spread awareness...maybe you could do the same.
A blog to read up on it....NSFW(harsh language sometimes...though intellectual talk mostly)
O and one more thing...WVa has a rep as a racist state. When I saw the name 5th column I thought that it meant a nazi thing....but it doesnt as I have inquired.
Anyways hope you guys take me up on something new to donate your time to...Pre-whatever isnt coming back but you CAN help some folks who truly need it.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
When games become multi million dollar businesses, they become quite serious. Many peolle's livelihoods depend on them, many fortunes are won and lost over them; that's all fairly serious. If you sit around your dining room table, playing the SW RPG by west end, and you mess up and annoy your players, THAT's just a game. This is serious business.
A good point.
And that is why...
Conservatives' pessimism is conducive to their happiness in three ways. First, they are rarely surprised -- they are right more often than not about the course of events. Second, when they are wrong they are happy to be so. Third, because pessimistic conservatives put not their faith in princes -- government -- they accept that happiness is a function of fending for oneself. They believe that happiness is an activity -- it is inseparable from the pursuit of happiness.
SOE ruined a great game, but talking to them won't make them change their minds. I mean it's been three years, if they were going to change their minds, they would of done it a few years back when SWG subscriber numbers were starting to diminish.
It is far more easier to change the minds of a few than the minds of the masses.
Have you sent messages to SOE/LA about the management of SWG and how things could be better? Or how to win back customers?
Impossible that they will read, acknowledge and even take into consideration of your messages, you say?
Not as impossible as you may think as compared to trying to change the minds of the burnt masses.
And that is why...
Conservatives' pessimism is conducive to their happiness in three ways. First, they are rarely surprised -- they are right more often than not about the course of events. Second, when they are wrong they are happy to be so. Third, because pessimistic conservatives put not their faith in princes -- government -- they accept that happiness is a function of fending for oneself. They believe that happiness is an activity -- it is inseparable from the pursuit of happiness.
Originally posted by ThaneB Originally posted by Fishermage
Originally posted by ThaneB
Originally posted by Fishermage
Originally posted by ThaneB Originally posted by ArcAngel3
Originally posted by ThaneB
Originally posted by ArcAngel3
Originally posted by hipiap Originally posted by kobie173
That's not what he's saying at all. However, the sheer venom, the completely outrageous statements people make (I believe my favorite was the one that said John Smedley should be jailed), the absolute HATE (yes, HATE) for current SWG players ... all that three years after the fact, is, to be frank, rather pathetic.
I've seen people get over very painful divorces in less time than it has taken some of the people on this board to get over pre-CU. Ding Ding Ding...winner
Well tbh I know one guy who thinks Smed should be jailed, but that thinking isn't motivated by hate. He really just thinks the guy committed fraud on a fairly massive scale, and should be held accountable for that.
Also, saying that this is all about something that happened 3 years ago is misleading. If you look at a number of threads on these boards, you'll notice that people highlight what appears to be a longstanding pattern of poor customer relations. Further, I don't know that people feel hatred for current SWG players. I know I certainly don't, as some of them are my friends. I do know, however, that it is very divisive when you take something from one group, redesign it and give it to another. I'm aware that players didn't do this. Rather this whole target audience conflict was sparked by the actions SOE and LEC. Possible solutions to mend this rift have been put forward to SOE and LEC, but they have not been implemented, sadly.
Very well said. But the reason I said it was something that happened three years ago, is because it is a game. Games are games, they shouldn't be taking so seriously. The argument against the NGE is really getting out of hand. Just like how there were some real life murders by players in Lineage 2 clans. You may think these threats against SOE employers are all jokes. But you will be surprised how crazy some people let themselves become over a game(ex. The Lineage 2 incidents). You should be angry about the NGE, I'm not telling you not to be, but don't let it make you a mindless person that just wants to destroy SOE and SWG. Control your anger, and be open to other viewpoints. And don't have blind devotion to something. Thankfully the poster above stated his opinion clearly and well. The only thing I'd have to disagree on is the highlights on poor customer relations by SOE. If you hate SOE don't buy anything from them, that's how you can stop them. You don't have to try to destroy them, they are destroying themselves. Don't talk to them, and watch them fall.
I think there's something to the idea, "don't talk to them, and watch them fall." Talking to them really just adds to the frustration in my experience. I tried open and respectful communication for months, and it got me nowhere. Well it got my posts moved, deleted, locked etc.
Also, if people are really convinced that an injustice took place, certainly taking the personal vengeance route can only end in tears. I have posted another thread that explains where people can take their complaints to authorities who are listening, and have the power to intervene if the right conditions are met. These would not be complaints about a lost video game, however, they would be about money taken via misleading marketting (i.e. fraud allegations).
SOE ruined a great game, but talking to them won't make them change their minds. I mean it's been three years, if they were going to change their minds, they would of done it a few years back when SWG subscriber numbers were starting to diminish. The problem with taking to this to authorities is that mmorpgs are dynamic. They are supposed to always change and be a living world. So you can't you really say that SOE made too many changes, so we deserve our money back.
Actually you CAN argue that; such changes are only allowed, in that the EULA agreement is a non-negotiated contract between partis, only to what would be a reasonable person standard. If the actions of SOE went beyond a reasonable person's standard, then they went beyond what is legal. That would be up to the authorities and the courts to decide over time; this is a VERY new area of law. We shall see. Regulation is often the result of abuse such as we have seen here. Fair enough, please if your information is correct try to take this up with the authorities( no sarcasm). There's no need to post on the forums, if what you say is true.
Sorry, I choose to exercise my freedom and post. If you don't like that, or can't handle it perhaps the internet is not for you (no sarcasm either). You have the right to post, but I'm tired of you posting just to flame me. If you have an actual opinion then post it. I'm sorry, but at the moment I have no clue what you are arguing against.
Originally posted by Moaky07 Heh Thane... After going round and round with Fisher not too long ago we took it to tells...and still couldnt agree on the format of things. He is....well "different"...and not meaning in a bad way. Just in the way of...not like the people I normally associate with in RL. I will say this...I think he cares more about having his game taken then he tries to let on...and thus "attacks" people in his own way....while trying to appear passive. Of all the vets I have listened to...not to mention their whining over the past 2.5 yrs...I gotta admit he remains my favorite and someone I actually like. Even if we dont agree on the subject of SOE/SWG. Anyways here is one for SWG vets,,,,right now there is a crooked government in WVa. Dont know if you saw the Heather Bresch(governors daughter) news things about bogus degrees etc. Their main University(WVU) is under control of people(Garrison and cronies) that act unaware that they are destroying the academic reputation...and are unwilling to step down. We wont even get into the Good Ole Boy Network that runs the state, They could use help getting the word out to everyone about how corrupt things are. It has been almost 3 yrs now...put your efforts into something that will affect things more profoundly than a game. Fisher once told me I should make suggestions to help vets if I dont agree with em. So here it is....a chance to use your campaigning for something positive in this world. As an FYI....I am a lifelong Michigan fan(over 30 yrs). Lets just say WVU and Michigan fans dont like each other much due to coach issues. But this transcends that...thus I am trying to spread awareness...maybe you could do the same. A blog to read up on it....NSFW(harsh language sometimes...though intellectual talk mostly) http://hippiekiller.wordpress.com/
I ordinarily, on a daily basis, work to change the world one person at a time. It's how I operate; I don't launch campaigns to change the world. I rarely fight AGAINST things when time is spent so much more productively working FOR things.
I am not nor have I ever been doing what you claim I am doing here; here, I am having a conversation about gaming and one game in particular, I feel passionate about it, as I feel passionate about many things. Those who know me in real life know I can become quite passionate about many things, games being the least of them -- political economics and God being the major ones. What I do here, this little conversation is FUN for me, one of the many things I do for fun when I am not doing other things.
I am doing this now, as I do most everyday, WHILE playing another game on my other computer. This is my playtime, not my fight for justice and freedom time.
The fact that what to ME is a diversion gets people like Thane so upset is almost funny.
Also, I've said it once I've said it a million times; I don't have a passive bone in my body. I also don't really attack anyone -- just disagree passionately.
However, the sheer venom, the completely outrageous statements people make (I believe my favorite was the one that said John Smedley should be jailed), the absolute HATE (yes, HATE) for current SWG players ... all that three years after the fact, is, to be frank, rather pathetic.
I've seen people get over very painful divorces in less time than it has taken some of the people on this board to get over pre-CU.
Ding Ding Ding...winner
Well tbh I know one guy who thinks Smed should be jailed, but that thinking isn't motivated by hate. He really just thinks the guy committed fraud on a fairly massive scale, and should be held accountable for that.
Also, saying that this is all about something that happened 3 years ago is misleading. If you look at a number of threads on these boards, you'll notice that people highlight what appears to be a longstanding pattern of poor customer relations.
Further, I don't know that people feel hatred for current SWG players. I know I certainly don't, as some of them are my friends. I do know, however, that it is very divisive when you take something from one group, redesign it and give it to another. I'm aware that players didn't do this. Rather this whole target audience conflict was sparked by the actions SOE and LEC.
Possible solutions to mend this rift have been put forward to SOE and LEC, but they have not been implemented, sadly.
Very well said. But the reason I said it was something that happened three years ago, is because it is a game. Games are games, they shouldn't be taking so seriously. The argument against the NGE is really getting out of hand. Just like how there were some real life murders by players in Lineage 2 clans. You may think these threats against SOE employers are all jokes. But you will be surprised how crazy some people let themselves become over a game(ex. The Lineage 2 incidents). You should be angry about the NGE, I'm not telling you not to be, but don't let it make you a mindless person that just wants to destroy SOE and SWG. Control your anger, and be open to other viewpoints. And don't have blind devotion to something.
Thankfully the poster above stated his opinion clearly and well. The only thing I'd have to disagree on is the highlights on poor customer relations by SOE. If you hate SOE don't buy anything from them, that's how you can stop them. You don't have to try to destroy them, they are destroying themselves. Don't talk to them, and watch them fall.
I think there's something to the idea, "don't talk to them, and watch them fall." Talking to them really just adds to the frustration in my experience. I tried open and respectful communication for months, and it got me nowhere. Well it got my posts moved, deleted, locked etc.
Also, if people are really convinced that an injustice took place, certainly taking the personal vengeance route can only end in tears. I have posted another thread that explains where people can take their complaints to authorities who are listening, and have the power to intervene if the right conditions are met. These would not be complaints about a lost video game, however, they would be about money taken via misleading marketting (i.e. fraud allegations).
SOE ruined a great game, but talking to them won't make them change their minds. I mean it's been three years, if they were going to change their minds, they would of done it a few years back when SWG subscriber numbers were starting to diminish. The problem with taking to this to authorities is that mmorpgs are dynamic. They are supposed to always change and be a living world. So you can't you really say that SOE made too many changes, so we deserve our money back.
Actually you CAN argue that; such changes are only allowed, in that the EULA agreement is a non-negotiated contract between partis, only to what would be a reasonable person standard. If the actions of SOE went beyond a reasonable person's standard, then they went beyond what is legal.
That would be up to the authorities and the courts to decide over time; this is a VERY new area of law. We shall see. Regulation is often the result of abuse such as we have seen here.
Fair enough, please if your information is correct try to take this up with the authorities( no sarcasm). There's no need to post on the forums, if what you say is true.
Sorry, I choose to exercise my freedom and post. If you don't like that, or can't handle it perhaps the internet is not for you (no sarcasm either).
You have the right to post, but I'm tired of you posting just to flame me. If you have an actual opinion then post it. I'm sorry, but at the moment I have no clue what you are arguing against.
I haven't once flamed you.
Sure you did, you disagreed with him. You made him question his entire world view by posting your retorts.
You are irritating as hell the way you play around with words Fisher. I know better than to get caught up in that trap again thank ye very much :P
You didnt mention my suggestion for vets to put their energy into. These WVa folks are sure as heck more screwed over than you guys were...having a negative image over where they went to school could affect their chances at new jobs etc.
All of them have many thousands invested...yet now when someone sees a WVU degree, on their resume, it is going to invoke images of this scandal.
The nation needs to be aware of the BS...(which is funny cause the BS initials could be for the Bresch Scandal)...that is affecting WVU.
That isnt even mentioning the Governors hand in the whole mess at WVU...nor the rampant nepotism in state leadership.
It is a one party- Good Ole Boy network...and it is corrupt.
Here are some links to the actual story at bottom of page(oldest ones are furthest down I believe)....the previous site I listed is a blog that has a lot of info and discussions about everything.
This gets me nothing...I live in Michigan and went to Univ of Michigan-Flint and Mott CC, and know no one in WVa or anyone going/graduated from WVU. Like the SWG vets, I have gone at it with their sports fans several times....just like every other Michigan fan has been forced to.
This is different...no games. I became aware of this about a month ago, and have been following it since. Trying to raise awareness when I can. I saw someone trying to still get the feds involved on general brds today so thought why not put this here.
Unlike you guys, I can understand where losing their academic reputation in the nation/world could destroy lives(something I couldnt believe a vet claimed). They need outsiders help to draw attention to it all. Need the Feds actually IMO.
Their faculty has voted no-confidence in their pres Garrison...by like a whopping 560 to 37 votes...yet he still wont resign...and the BOG/Gov stands behind him(as they scammed to get him the job in first place...wasnt qualified...just connected).
Anyways my last time asking for help here...you may dislike me...but these folks done nothing to ya. Instead they are seeing something they luv destroyed. You guys should know full well that feeling.
They could use the dedication you guys have shown the past 2.5 yrs going on about SOE to the world at large. Even I gotta give ya folks that...stubborn as a mule.
I spend most my time online on blogs and starting to get rdy for FB season....probably wont be too many visits here between now and the Super Bowl.
Although I could make a special visit if missed heh
See ya for sure in Feb...if not sooner :P
And thanks to any joining this fight that CAN be won.
I am writing this thread to show the stupidity of many SWG veterans. Which makes all SWG veterans, including myself look like complete lunatics. Please read the entire thread before you post anything.Trolls, I advise you all to stay clear of this thread. I am an SWG veteran, and this thread's intention isn't to try to justify the NGE. The true purpose of this thread is to tell every fellow SWG veteran to finally shut their huge mouths, and find a new fun game to play. Just like I did. Yes I'm a genius I managed to find a game other than SWG. Please feel free to congratulate me (sarcasm). I am very surprised and annoyed by the fact that people are still whining about the NGE and CU. It has been 3 years ladies and gentlemen. Three years!, how can you hold a grudge for so long? This next sentence will sound very sexist, and I apologize. The only people I've seen hold grudges for that long are women. You guys sound like complete fools when you whine about something that occured a few years back. All of you that disagree with me will probably try to counter this argument by saying that you spent time and money on this game. So your telling me that every game that you played and got tired of and quit, was a waste of your time and money. My friends that is exactly what it sounds like. You had fun with SWG right? that's all that matters. Move on to a new game, no game is eternal. The only games that are eternal are vaporware. There are many great games out there. Trust me you'll find one you like. I was one of those that was pissed off at SOE for ruining SWG, but I moved on. Yes SWG was one of my favorite games, but I got sick and tired of whining about something I had no power over. Just stay clear of SWG and play a game you do enjoy. Crying will get you nowhere. It will just make you miserable.
I am writing this thread to show the stupidity of many SWG veterans. Which makes all SWG veterans, including myself look like complete lunatics. Please read the entire thread before you post anything.Trolls, I advise you all to stay clear of this thread. I am an SWG veteran, and this thread's intention isn't to try to justify the NGE. The true purpose of this thread is to tell every fellow SWG veteran to finally shut their huge mouths, and find a new fun game to play. Just like I did. Yes I'm a genius I managed to find a game other than SWG. Please feel free to congratulate me (sarcasm). I am very surprised and annoyed by the fact that people are still whining about the NGE and CU. It has been 3 years ladies and gentlemen. Three years!, how can you hold a grudge for so long? This next sentence will sound very sexist, and I apologize. The only people I've seen hold grudges for that long are women. You guys sound like complete fools when you whine about something that occured a few years back. All of you that disagree with me will probably try to counter this argument by saying that you spent time and money on this game. So your telling me that every game that you played and got tired of and quit, was a waste of your time and money. My friends that is exactly what it sounds like. You had fun with SWG right? that's all that matters. Move on to a new game, no game is eternal. The only games that are eternal are vaporware. There are many great games out there. Trust me you'll find one you like. I was one of those that was pissed off at SOE for ruining SWG, but I moved on. Yes SWG was one of my favorite games, but I got sick and tired of whining about something I had no power over. Just stay clear of SWG and play a game you do enjoy. Crying will get you nowhere. It will just make you miserable.
What he said. I was very suprised that I was Game banned for some trivial RP in the forums . I was suprised that the game got turned into a turd burger twice over while I was side lined. I was suprised when I escorted a mass exodus of players who lost months to years of profession grinding in a blink of an eye with the mindnumbing premiere of the NGE. I was suprised that I was allow to return to My Hone Server ,Kauri and only to find that is was now a ghost town.
And you are very surprised and annoyed by the fact that people are still whining about the NGE and CU because It has been 3 years , You need to put in perspective like I have , We are owned . To stop "whining" about it allows SOE to win , not in customers I dare say but in the principal that just because its their company and their game gives them no right to discount the entire reason of their business existence (which they did with the NGE) to service the customers and comply to their wishes, SOE never did and I as well as many others are helpful reminders that they did not.
Consumers won't nor should they stop complaining using the most effective mode possible because it's the way business are ultimately kept accountable, Should someone make death threats- absolutely not, but there is nothing wrong with telling a new buyer what can happen if they deal with this company. Does anyone think another game will dare pull an SOE like makeover at this point? Not likely.
The OP and Wolverine boy are just going to have to deal with it, maybe to stop reading or posting here would be a good start. BTW, seeing ASU throttle the Wolverines was very enjoyable- thanks to a vastly over rated football program I had a good day last Sept and I am sure pretty happy Pryor went to OSU now.
Originally posted by Moaky07 You are irritating as hell the way you play around with words Fisher. I know better than to get caught up in that trap again thank ye very much :P
You didnt mention my suggestion for vets to put their energy into. These WVa folks are sure as heck more screwed over than you guys were...having a negative image over where they went to school could affect their chances at new jobs etc. All of them have many thousands invested...yet now when someone sees a WVU degree, on their resume, it is going to invoke images of this scandal. The nation needs to be aware of the BS...(which is funny cause the BS initials could be for the Bresch Scandal)...that is affecting WVU. That isnt even mentioning the Governors hand in the whole mess at WVU...nor the rampant nepotism in state leadership. It is a one party- Good Ole Boy network...and it is corrupt.
Here are some links to the actual story at bottom of page(oldest ones are furthest down I believe)....the previous site I listed is a blog that has a lot of info and discussions about everything. This gets me nothing...I live in Michigan and went to Univ of Michigan-Flint and Mott CC, and know no one in WVa or anyone going/graduated from WVU. Like the SWG vets, I have gone at it with their sports fans several times....just like every other Michigan fan has been forced to. This is different...no games. I became aware of this about a month ago, and have been following it since. Trying to raise awareness when I can. I saw someone trying to still get the feds involved on general brds today so thought why not put this here. Unlike you guys, I can understand where losing their academic reputation in the nation/world could destroy lives(something I couldnt believe a vet claimed). They need outsiders help to draw attention to it all. Need the Feds actually IMO. Their faculty has voted no-confidence in their pres Garrison...by like a whopping 560 to 37 votes...yet he still wont resign...and the BOG/Gov stands behind him(as they scammed to get him the job in first place...wasnt qualified...just connected). Anyways my last time asking for help here...you may dislike me...but these folks done nothing to ya. Instead they are seeing something they luv destroyed. You guys should know full well that feeling. They could use the dedication you guys have shown the past 2.5 yrs going on about SOE to the world at large. Even I gotta give ya folks that...stubborn as a mule. I spend most my time online on blogs and starting to get rdy for FB season....probably wont be too many visits here between now and the Super Bowl. Although I could make a special visit if missed heh See ya for sure in Feb...if not sooner :P And thanks to any joining this fight that CAN be won. http://www.wvgazette.com/News/200805310524
It's not my business to answer for anyone but myself. I explained that a) I am not putting anything but my playtime energy into the conversation here on these boards, and b) in terms of "saving the world," I am devoting quite a bit of energy into helping my fellow man constructively, on a daily basis, and while I admire you for your crusade, it's not mine.
Remember I am only posting here because I am PLAYING another game RIGHT now as I post -- it is part of my daily multitasking.
Fight on, fight the good fight -- that has nothing to do with discussing SWG on the veteran's Forum, even if we happen to be in the right here.
Human beings contain multitudes -- we are capable if discussing an unethical company and unethical men on a given forum and at the same time making our world better. Those are far from mutually exclusive activities.
Either way how about taking your own advice, leave the forum immediately, and get on with your crusade?
Consumers won't nor should they stop complaining using the most effective mode possible because it's the way business are ultimately kept accountable, Should someone make death threats- absolutely not, but there is nothing wrong with telling a new buyer what can happen if they deal with this company. Does anyone think another game will dare pull an SOE like makeover at this point? Not likely. The OP and Wolverine boy are just going to have to deal with it, maybe to stop reading or posting here would be a good start. BTW, seeing ASU throttle the Wolverines was very enjoyable- thanks to a vastly over rated football program I had a good day last Sept and I am sure pretty happy Pryor went to OSU now.
Consumers can call a product crap , and tell others not to buy it. But when it goes on for three years, it seems like everybody already knows how bad the game is.
Are you telling me and others not to post, just because we have different opinions than you? That really sounds arrogant man.
You can't say that civilization don't advance, however, for in every war they kill you in a new way. -Will Rogers
SOE ruined a great game, but talking to them won't make them change their minds. I mean it's been three years, if they were going to change their minds, they would of done it a few years back when SWG subscriber numbers were starting to diminish.
It is far more easier to change the minds of a few than the minds of the masses.
Have you sent messages to SOE/LA about the management of SWG and how things could be better? Or how to win back customers?
Impossible that they will read, acknowledge and even take into consideration of your messages, you say?
Not as impossible as you may think as compared to trying to change the minds of the burnt masses.
What you say makes no sense really. How does changing the minds of a few have to do with SOE? Can you please rephrase what you wrote. I didn't say that it was impossible to change the minds of potential customers. I said that it was impossible to change SOE 's mind. As you know SOE is a crap company that dosen't listen to its customers. Basicly what your saying is that it isn't impossible to change SOE's mind.
You can't say that civilization don't advance, however, for in every war they kill you in a new way. -Will Rogers
I am writing this thread to show the stupidity of many SWG veterans. Which makes all SWG veterans, including myself look like complete lunatics. Please read the entire thread before you post anything.Trolls, I advise you all to stay clear of this thread. I am an SWG veteran, and this thread's intention isn't to try to justify the NGE. The true purpose of this thread is to tell every fellow SWG veteran to finally shut their huge mouths, and find a new fun game to play. Just like I did. Yes I'm a genius I managed to find a game other than SWG. Please feel free to congratulate me (sarcasm). I am very surprised and annoyed by the fact that people are still whining about the NGE and CU. It has been 3 years ladies and gentlemen. Three years!, how can you hold a grudge for so long? This next sentence will sound very sexist, and I apologize. The only people I've seen hold grudges for that long are women. You guys sound like complete fools when you whine about something that occured a few years back. All of you that disagree with me will probably try to counter this argument by saying that you spent time and money on this game. So your telling me that every game that you played and got tired of and quit, was a waste of your time and money. My friends that is exactly what it sounds like. You had fun with SWG right? that's all that matters. Move on to a new game, no game is eternal. The only games that are eternal are vaporware. There are many great games out there. Trust me you'll find one you like. I was one of those that was pissed off at SOE for ruining SWG, but I moved on. Yes SWG was one of my favorite games, but I got sick and tired of whining about something I had no power over. Just stay clear of SWG and play a game you do enjoy. Crying will get you nowhere. It will just make you miserable.
I came out of mmorpg.com retirement to respond to Sun-tzu.
In short, they ruined the game, I can live with that, but they also ripped several hundred thousand people off, and were completely unrepentant while doing so. SOE is a corrupt company that does not care about it's customers. Where I am from we take consumer rights quite seriously.
So, you like the game. Good for you. That does not have a thing to do with why I trash the name of SOE everytime someone has the luck of bringing them up.
Ha, last thread my arse...
Played (more than a month): SWG, Second Life, Tabula Rasa, Lineage 2, Everquest 2, EvE, MxO, Ryzom.
Consumers won't nor should they stop complaining using the most effective mode possible because it's the way business are ultimately kept accountable, Should someone make death threats- absolutely not, but there is nothing wrong with telling a new buyer what can happen if they deal with this company. Does anyone think another game will dare pull an SOE like makeover at this point? Not likely. The OP and Wolverine boy are just going to have to deal with it, maybe to stop reading or posting here would be a good start. BTW, seeing ASU throttle the Wolverines was very enjoyable- thanks to a vastly over rated football program I had a good day last Sept and I am sure pretty happy Pryor went to OSU now.
Consumers can call a product crap , and tell others not to buy it. But when it goes on for three years, it seems like everybody already knows how bad the game is.
Are you telling me and others not to post, just because we have different opinions than you? That really sounds arrogant man.
I am glad I only read the first and last posts...
You started this thread telling us to quit posting. So, don't be a hypocrite.
And ASU. Leave the Buckeyes out of it! You may proceed to bash Michigan...
Played (more than a month): SWG, Second Life, Tabula Rasa, Lineage 2, Everquest 2, EvE, MxO, Ryzom.
Originally posted by ThaneB Originally posted by ASUDevil Consumers won't nor should they stop complaining using the most effective mode possible because it's the way business are ultimately kept accountable, Should someone make death threats- absolutely not, but there is nothing wrong with telling a new buyer what can happen if they deal with this company. Does anyone think another game will dare pull an SOE like makeover at this point? Not likely. The OP and Wolverine boy are just going to have to deal with it, maybe to stop reading or posting here would be a good start. BTW, seeing ASU throttle the Wolverines was very enjoyable- thanks to a vastly over rated football program I had a good day last Sept and I am sure pretty happy Pryor went to OSU now.
Consumers can call a product crap , and tell others not to buy it. But when it goes on for three years, it seems like everybody already knows how bad the game is. Are you telling me and others not to post, just because we have different opinions than you? That really sounds arrogant man.
He is not telling you what to do. he is saying that if YOU can't handle the opinions of others, if YOu are sick of it, if YOU are getting angry that it's gone on for this long, then maybe YOU need to remove yourself from the equation, get over it, and move on.
Consumers won't nor should they stop complaining using the most effective mode possible because it's the way business are ultimately kept accountable, Should someone make death threats- absolutely not, but there is nothing wrong with telling a new buyer what can happen if they deal with this company. Does anyone think another game will dare pull an SOE like makeover at this point? Not likely.
The OP and Wolverine boy are just going to have to deal with it, maybe to stop reading or posting here would be a good start. BTW, seeing ASU throttle the Wolverines was very enjoyable- thanks to a vastly over rated football program I had a good day last Sept and I am sure pretty happy Pryor went to OSU now.
Consumers can call a product crap , and tell others not to buy it. But when it goes on for three years, it seems like everybody already knows how bad the game is.
Are you telling me and others not to post, just because we have different opinions than you? That really sounds arrogant man.
He is not telling you what to do. he is saying that if YOU can't handle the opinions of others, if YOu are sick of it, if YOU are getting angry that it's gone on for this long, then maybe YOU need to remove yourself from the equation, get over it, and move on.
Ok then since you can't handle my opinion why don't you take your own advice and leave. Again I must ask you , what are you even arguing about? Are you arguing for the sake of arguing?
You can't say that civilization don't advance, however, for in every war they kill you in a new way. -Will Rogers
Originally posted by ThaneB Originally posted by Fishermage
Originally posted by ThaneB
Originally posted by ASUDevil
Consumers won't nor should they stop complaining using the most effective mode possible because it's the way business are ultimately kept accountable, Should someone make death threats- absolutely not, but there is nothing wrong with telling a new buyer what can happen if they deal with this company. Does anyone think another game will dare pull an SOE like makeover at this point? Not likely. The OP and Wolverine boy are just going to have to deal with it, maybe to stop reading or posting here would be a good start. BTW, seeing ASU throttle the Wolverines was very enjoyable- thanks to a vastly over rated football program I had a good day last Sept and I am sure pretty happy Pryor went to OSU now.
Consumers can call a product crap , and tell others not to buy it. But when it goes on for three years, it seems like everybody already knows how bad the game is. Are you telling me and others not to post, just because we have different opinions than you? That really sounds arrogant man.
He is not telling you what to do. he is saying that if YOU can't handle the opinions of others, if YOu are sick of it, if YOU are getting angry that it's gone on for this long, then maybe YOU need to remove yourself from the equation, get over it, and move on. Ok then since you can't handle my opinion why don't you take your own advice and leave. Again I must ask you , what are you even arguing about? Are you arguing for the sake of arguing?
I can more than handle your opinion, in fact, you have yet to even deal with anything I have posted. I am answering your flaming, trollish posts quite nicely. I am arguing that you are not God and it is not up to YOU to determine "enough is enough," that that is up to the people and if such makes you angry or frustrated, perhaps you would be happier elsewhere.
I am not arguing for the sake of arguing; in fact, I am barely arguing in that what I am saying is so obvious. I am however countering everything you say quite nicely. You don't have a case and I have shown so.
Comments
However, the sheer venom, the completely outrageous statements people make (I believe my favorite was the one that said John Smedley should be jailed), the absolute HATE (yes, HATE) for current SWG players ... all that three years after the fact, is, to be frank, rather pathetic.
I've seen people get over very painful divorces in less time than it has taken some of the people on this board to get over pre-CU.
Ding Ding Ding...winner
Well tbh I know one guy who thinks Smed should be jailed, but that thinking isn't motivated by hate. He really just thinks the guy committed fraud on a fairly massive scale, and should be held accountable for that.
Also, saying that this is all about something that happened 3 years ago is misleading. If you look at a number of threads on these boards, you'll notice that people highlight what appears to be a longstanding pattern of poor customer relations.
Further, I don't know that people feel hatred for current SWG players. I know I certainly don't, as some of them are my friends. I do know, however, that it is very divisive when you take something from one group, redesign it and give it to another. I'm aware that players didn't do this. Rather this whole target audience conflict was sparked by the actions SOE and LEC.
Possible solutions to mend this rift have been put forward to SOE and LEC, but they have not been implemented, sadly.
Very well said. But the reason I said it was something that happened three years ago, is because it is a game. Games are games, they shouldn't be taking so seriously. The argument against the NGE is really getting out of hand. Just like how there were some real life murders by players in Lineage 2 clans. You may think these threats against SOE employers are all jokes. But you will be surprised how crazy some people let themselves become over a game(ex. The Lineage 2 incidents). You should be angry about the NGE, I'm not telling you not to be, but don't let it make you a mindless person that just wants to destroy SOE and SWG. Control your anger, and be open to other viewpoints. And don't have blind devotion to something.
Thankfully the poster above stated his opinion clearly and well. The only thing I'd have to disagree on is the highlights on poor customer relations by SOE. If you hate SOE don't buy anything from them, that's how you can stop them. You don't have to try to destroy them, they are destroying themselves. Don't talk to them, and watch them fall.
I think there's something to the idea, "don't talk to them, and watch them fall." Talking to them really just adds to the frustration in my experience. I tried open and respectful communication for months, and it got me nowhere. Well it got my posts moved, deleted, locked etc.
Also, if people are really convinced that an injustice took place, certainly taking the personal vengeance route can only end in tears. I have posted another thread that explains where people can take their complaints to authorities who are listening, and have the power to intervene if the right conditions are met. These would not be complaints about a lost video game, however, they would be about money taken via misleading marketting (i.e. fraud allegations).
Actually you CAN argue that; such changes are only allowed, in that the EULA agreement is a non-negotiated contract between partis, only to what would be a reasonable person standard. If the actions of SOE went beyond a reasonable person's standard, then they went beyond what is legal.
That would be up to the authorities and the courts to decide over time; this is a VERY new area of law. We shall see. Regulation is often the result of abuse such as we have seen here.
Fair enough, please if your information is correct try to take this up with the authorities( no sarcasm). There's no need to post on the forums, if what you say is true.
Sorry, I choose to exercise my freedom and post. If you don't like that, or can't handle it perhaps the internet is not for you (no sarcasm either).
fishermage.blogspot.com
However, the sheer venom, the completely outrageous statements people make (I believe my favorite was the one that said John Smedley should be jailed), the absolute HATE (yes, HATE) for current SWG players ... all that three years after the fact, is, to be frank, rather pathetic.
I've seen people get over very painful divorces in less time than it has taken some of the people on this board to get over pre-CU.
Ding Ding Ding...winner
Well tbh I know one guy who thinks Smed should be jailed, but that thinking isn't motivated by hate. He really just thinks the guy committed fraud on a fairly massive scale, and should be held accountable for that.
Also, saying that this is all about something that happened 3 years ago is misleading. If you look at a number of threads on these boards, you'll notice that people highlight what appears to be a longstanding pattern of poor customer relations.
Further, I don't know that people feel hatred for current SWG players. I know I certainly don't, as some of them are my friends. I do know, however, that it is very divisive when you take something from one group, redesign it and give it to another. I'm aware that players didn't do this. Rather this whole target audience conflict was sparked by the actions SOE and LEC.
Possible solutions to mend this rift have been put forward to SOE and LEC, but they have not been implemented, sadly.
Very well said. But the reason I said it was something that happened three years ago, is because it is a game. Games are games, they shouldn't be taking so seriously. The argument against the NGE is really getting out of hand. Just like how there were some real life murders by players in Lineage 2 clans. You may think these threats against SOE employers are all jokes. But you will be surprised how crazy some people let themselves become over a game(ex. The Lineage 2 incidents). You should be angry about the NGE, I'm not telling you not to be, but don't let it make you a mindless person that just wants to destroy SOE and SWG. Control your anger, and be open to other viewpoints. And don't have blind devotion to something.
Thankfully the poster above stated his opinion clearly and well. The only thing I'd have to disagree on is the highlights on poor customer relations by SOE. If you hate SOE don't buy anything from them, that's how you can stop them. You don't have to try to destroy them, they are destroying themselves. Don't talk to them, and watch them fall.
I think there's something to the idea, "don't talk to them, and watch them fall." Talking to them really just adds to the frustration in my experience. I tried open and respectful communication for months, and it got me nowhere. Well it got my posts moved, deleted, locked etc.
Also, if people are really convinced that an injustice took place, certainly taking the personal vengeance route can only end in tears. I have posted another thread that explains where people can take their complaints to authorities who are listening, and have the power to intervene if the right conditions are met. These would not be complaints about a lost video game, however, they would be about money taken via misleading marketting (i.e. fraud allegations).
Actually you CAN argue that; such changes are only allowed, in that the EULA agreement is a non-negotiated contract between partis, only to what would be a reasonable person standard. If the actions of SOE went beyond a reasonable person's standard, then they went beyond what is legal.
That would be up to the authorities and the courts to decide over time; this is a VERY new area of law. We shall see. Regulation is often the result of abuse such as we have seen here.
Fair enough, please if your information is correct try to take this up with the authorities( no sarcasm). There's no need to post on the forums, if what you say is true.
Sorry, I choose to exercise my freedom and post. If you don't like that, or can't handle it perhaps the internet is not for you (no sarcasm either).
You have the right to post, but I'm tired of you posting just to flame me. If you have an actual opinion then post it. I'm sorry, but at the moment I have no clue what you are arguing against.
You can't say that civilization don't advance, however, for in every war they kill you in a new way.
-Will Rogers
Nope, not calling your entire argument a rant. Just making a confession related to some of my own posts in the past. I think a lot of us have failed to choose our words carefully from time to time in the heat of the moment.
Also, I think the point about holding grudges is a good one. Nurturing resentment can have some nasty side effects. Encouraging people to revinvest in something they enjoy also sounds like a fine suggestion.
Where I respectfully see things differently is that ongoing posts are not all related to resentment or a failure to find something else that's enjoyable. I see many as well intentioned consumer advocacy. Granted some people won't appreciate that, but I think many gamers will.
Or you could say one simple statement to those who want to know what SWG is like. " There were major changes in the game, and now it is bad". Very simple and to the point. There is no need to call anybody evil or say that you want to kill someone etc...
Lying and cheating people IS evil; no it's not bigtime Hitler eveil, but it is certainly evil. Why do you seek to control the speech of others in this way? Why not let people say what they wish?
If you can't handle it, then the internet is really the wrong place for you.
Now, who has said that they REALLy want to kill anyone over this, and meant it? I'd like to see that post.
Where did you come from?. I sense a I'd advise you to first look up the word evil . Next lose that attitude. After that become literate so you can read my post properly. I didn't say that people acutally meant that they wanted to kill someone over this. But murders have happened over video-games before, and this argument against the NGE and SOE is getting out of of hand.
Evil is not something one can LOOK UP -- it has been debated as long as man has been around. If you don't feel lying is evil, and cheating people is evil, you afre entitled to that moral view. We'll have to agree to disagree. I personaly believe that any willful violation of anyone else is evil, and there are degrees of evil, murder is worse than armed robbery, armed robbery is worse than burglary, burglary is worse than cheating, and cheating is worse than lying -- but all are forms of what we call evil.
I've been here all along; thanks for the personal attacks. How about actually dealing with what I have said. I never troll. The only trolling I see here is coming from you, starting with your OP.
Who are YOU to determine when a discussion is out of hand? Again, it seems you have a definite problem with the opinions of others. I suggest you leave the internet at once -- it was designed for peope to actually DISCUSS things.
Bashing me for making a personal attack after you made a personal attack. Nice tactic too bad it will never work .I've been debating with everyone on this thread except you, you know why? Because you have just flamed me the entire time. Barely anyone on this thread has so far agreed with me, but I'm still speaking with them, and listening to them.You can't say that civilization don't advance, however, for in every war they kill you in a new way.
-Will Rogers
Heh Thane...
After going round and round with Fisher not too long ago we took it to tells...and still couldnt agree on the format of things.
He is....well "different"...and not meaning in a bad way. Just in the way of...not like the people I normally associate with in RL.
I will say this...I think he cares more about having his game taken then he tries to let on...and thus "attacks" people in his own way....while trying to appear passive.
Of all the vets I have listened to...not to mention their whining over the past 2.5 yrs...I gotta admit he remains my favorite and someone I actually like.
Even if we dont agree on the subject of SOE/SWG.
Anyways here is one for SWG vets,,,,right now there is a crooked government in WVa. Dont know if you saw the Heather Bresch(governors daughter) news things about bogus degrees etc. Their main University(WVU) is under control of people(Garrison and cronies) that act unaware that they are destroying the academic reputation...and are unwilling to step down. We wont even get into the Good Ole Boy Network that runs the state,
They could use help getting the word out to everyone about how corrupt things are.
It has been almost 3 yrs now...put your efforts into something that will affect things more profoundly than a game.
Fisher once told me I should make suggestions to help vets if I dont agree with em. So here it is....a chance to use your campaigning for something positive in this world.
As an FYI....I am a lifelong Michigan fan(over 30 yrs). Lets just say WVU and Michigan fans dont like each other much due to coach issues. But this transcends that...thus I am trying to spread awareness...maybe you could do the same.
A blog to read up on it....NSFW(harsh language sometimes...though intellectual talk mostly)
http://hippiekiller.wordpress.com/
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
O and one more thing...WVa has a rep as a racist state. When I saw the name 5th column I thought that it meant a nazi thing....but it doesnt as I have inquired.
Anyways hope you guys take me up on something new to donate your time to...Pre-whatever isnt coming back but you CAN help some folks who truly need it.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
And that is why...
Conservatives' pessimism is conducive to their happiness in three ways. First, they are rarely surprised -- they are right more often than not about the course of events. Second, when they are wrong they are happy to be so. Third, because pessimistic conservatives put not their faith in princes -- government -- they accept that happiness is a function of fending for oneself. They believe that happiness is an activity -- it is inseparable from the pursuit of happiness.
It is far more easier to change the minds of a few than the minds of the masses.
Have you sent messages to SOE/LA about the management of SWG and how things could be better? Or how to win back customers?
Impossible that they will read, acknowledge and even take into consideration of your messages, you say?
Not as impossible as you may think as compared to trying to change the minds of the burnt masses.
And that is why...
Conservatives' pessimism is conducive to their happiness in three ways. First, they are rarely surprised -- they are right more often than not about the course of events. Second, when they are wrong they are happy to be so. Third, because pessimistic conservatives put not their faith in princes -- government -- they accept that happiness is a function of fending for oneself. They believe that happiness is an activity -- it is inseparable from the pursuit of happiness.
However, the sheer venom, the completely outrageous statements people make (I believe my favorite was the one that said John Smedley should be jailed), the absolute HATE (yes, HATE) for current SWG players ... all that three years after the fact, is, to be frank, rather pathetic.
I've seen people get over very painful divorces in less time than it has taken some of the people on this board to get over pre-CU.
Ding Ding Ding...winner
Well tbh I know one guy who thinks Smed should be jailed, but that thinking isn't motivated by hate. He really just thinks the guy committed fraud on a fairly massive scale, and should be held accountable for that.
Also, saying that this is all about something that happened 3 years ago is misleading. If you look at a number of threads on these boards, you'll notice that people highlight what appears to be a longstanding pattern of poor customer relations.
Further, I don't know that people feel hatred for current SWG players. I know I certainly don't, as some of them are my friends. I do know, however, that it is very divisive when you take something from one group, redesign it and give it to another. I'm aware that players didn't do this. Rather this whole target audience conflict was sparked by the actions SOE and LEC.
Possible solutions to mend this rift have been put forward to SOE and LEC, but they have not been implemented, sadly.
Very well said. But the reason I said it was something that happened three years ago, is because it is a game. Games are games, they shouldn't be taking so seriously. The argument against the NGE is really getting out of hand. Just like how there were some real life murders by players in Lineage 2 clans. You may think these threats against SOE employers are all jokes. But you will be surprised how crazy some people let themselves become over a game(ex. The Lineage 2 incidents). You should be angry about the NGE, I'm not telling you not to be, but don't let it make you a mindless person that just wants to destroy SOE and SWG. Control your anger, and be open to other viewpoints. And don't have blind devotion to something.
Thankfully the poster above stated his opinion clearly and well. The only thing I'd have to disagree on is the highlights on poor customer relations by SOE. If you hate SOE don't buy anything from them, that's how you can stop them. You don't have to try to destroy them, they are destroying themselves. Don't talk to them, and watch them fall.
I think there's something to the idea, "don't talk to them, and watch them fall." Talking to them really just adds to the frustration in my experience. I tried open and respectful communication for months, and it got me nowhere. Well it got my posts moved, deleted, locked etc.
Also, if people are really convinced that an injustice took place, certainly taking the personal vengeance route can only end in tears. I have posted another thread that explains where people can take their complaints to authorities who are listening, and have the power to intervene if the right conditions are met. These would not be complaints about a lost video game, however, they would be about money taken via misleading marketting (i.e. fraud allegations).
Actually you CAN argue that; such changes are only allowed, in that the EULA agreement is a non-negotiated contract between partis, only to what would be a reasonable person standard. If the actions of SOE went beyond a reasonable person's standard, then they went beyond what is legal.
That would be up to the authorities and the courts to decide over time; this is a VERY new area of law. We shall see. Regulation is often the result of abuse such as we have seen here.
Fair enough, please if your information is correct try to take this up with the authorities( no sarcasm). There's no need to post on the forums, if what you say is true.
Sorry, I choose to exercise my freedom and post. If you don't like that, or can't handle it perhaps the internet is not for you (no sarcasm either).
You have the right to post, but I'm tired of you posting just to flame me. If you have an actual opinion then post it. I'm sorry, but at the moment I have no clue what you are arguing against.
I haven't once flamed you.
fishermage.blogspot.com
I am not nor have I ever been doing what you claim I am doing here; here, I am having a conversation about gaming and one game in particular, I feel passionate about it, as I feel passionate about many things. Those who know me in real life know I can become quite passionate about many things, games being the least of them -- political economics and God being the major ones. What I do here, this little conversation is FUN for me, one of the many things I do for fun when I am not doing other things.
I am doing this now, as I do most everyday, WHILE playing another game on my other computer. This is my playtime, not my fight for justice and freedom time.
The fact that what to ME is a diversion gets people like Thane so upset is almost funny.
fishermage.blogspot.com
Also, I've said it once I've said it a million times; I don't have a passive bone in my body. I also don't really attack anyone -- just disagree passionately.
fishermage.blogspot.com
However, the sheer venom, the completely outrageous statements people make (I believe my favorite was the one that said John Smedley should be jailed), the absolute HATE (yes, HATE) for current SWG players ... all that three years after the fact, is, to be frank, rather pathetic.
I've seen people get over very painful divorces in less time than it has taken some of the people on this board to get over pre-CU.
Ding Ding Ding...winner
Well tbh I know one guy who thinks Smed should be jailed, but that thinking isn't motivated by hate. He really just thinks the guy committed fraud on a fairly massive scale, and should be held accountable for that.
Also, saying that this is all about something that happened 3 years ago is misleading. If you look at a number of threads on these boards, you'll notice that people highlight what appears to be a longstanding pattern of poor customer relations.
Further, I don't know that people feel hatred for current SWG players. I know I certainly don't, as some of them are my friends. I do know, however, that it is very divisive when you take something from one group, redesign it and give it to another. I'm aware that players didn't do this. Rather this whole target audience conflict was sparked by the actions SOE and LEC.
Possible solutions to mend this rift have been put forward to SOE and LEC, but they have not been implemented, sadly.
Very well said. But the reason I said it was something that happened three years ago, is because it is a game. Games are games, they shouldn't be taking so seriously. The argument against the NGE is really getting out of hand. Just like how there were some real life murders by players in Lineage 2 clans. You may think these threats against SOE employers are all jokes. But you will be surprised how crazy some people let themselves become over a game(ex. The Lineage 2 incidents). You should be angry about the NGE, I'm not telling you not to be, but don't let it make you a mindless person that just wants to destroy SOE and SWG. Control your anger, and be open to other viewpoints. And don't have blind devotion to something.
Thankfully the poster above stated his opinion clearly and well. The only thing I'd have to disagree on is the highlights on poor customer relations by SOE. If you hate SOE don't buy anything from them, that's how you can stop them. You don't have to try to destroy them, they are destroying themselves. Don't talk to them, and watch them fall.
I think there's something to the idea, "don't talk to them, and watch them fall." Talking to them really just adds to the frustration in my experience. I tried open and respectful communication for months, and it got me nowhere. Well it got my posts moved, deleted, locked etc.
Also, if people are really convinced that an injustice took place, certainly taking the personal vengeance route can only end in tears. I have posted another thread that explains where people can take their complaints to authorities who are listening, and have the power to intervene if the right conditions are met. These would not be complaints about a lost video game, however, they would be about money taken via misleading marketting (i.e. fraud allegations).
Actually you CAN argue that; such changes are only allowed, in that the EULA agreement is a non-negotiated contract between partis, only to what would be a reasonable person standard. If the actions of SOE went beyond a reasonable person's standard, then they went beyond what is legal.
That would be up to the authorities and the courts to decide over time; this is a VERY new area of law. We shall see. Regulation is often the result of abuse such as we have seen here.
Fair enough, please if your information is correct try to take this up with the authorities( no sarcasm). There's no need to post on the forums, if what you say is true.
Sorry, I choose to exercise my freedom and post. If you don't like that, or can't handle it perhaps the internet is not for you (no sarcasm either).
You have the right to post, but I'm tired of you posting just to flame me. If you have an actual opinion then post it. I'm sorry, but at the moment I have no clue what you are arguing against.
I haven't once flamed you.
Sure you did, you disagreed with him. You made him question his entire world view by posting your retorts.Nah, I'm just screwing with you, he's trolling.
You are irritating as hell the way you play around with words Fisher. I know better than to get caught up in that trap again thank ye very much :P
You didnt mention my suggestion for vets to put their energy into. These WVa folks are sure as heck more screwed over than you guys were...having a negative image over where they went to school could affect their chances at new jobs etc.
All of them have many thousands invested...yet now when someone sees a WVU degree, on their resume, it is going to invoke images of this scandal.
The nation needs to be aware of the BS...(which is funny cause the BS initials could be for the Bresch Scandal)...that is affecting WVU.
That isnt even mentioning the Governors hand in the whole mess at WVU...nor the rampant nepotism in state leadership.
It is a one party- Good Ole Boy network...and it is corrupt.
Here are some links to the actual story at bottom of page(oldest ones are furthest down I believe)....the previous site I listed is a blog that has a lot of info and discussions about everything.
This gets me nothing...I live in Michigan and went to Univ of Michigan-Flint and Mott CC, and know no one in WVa or anyone going/graduated from WVU. Like the SWG vets, I have gone at it with their sports fans several times....just like every other Michigan fan has been forced to.
This is different...no games. I became aware of this about a month ago, and have been following it since. Trying to raise awareness when I can. I saw someone trying to still get the feds involved on general brds today so thought why not put this here.
Unlike you guys, I can understand where losing their academic reputation in the nation/world could destroy lives(something I couldnt believe a vet claimed). They need outsiders help to draw attention to it all. Need the Feds actually IMO.
Their faculty has voted no-confidence in their pres Garrison...by like a whopping 560 to 37 votes...yet he still wont resign...and the BOG/Gov stands behind him(as they scammed to get him the job in first place...wasnt qualified...just connected).
Anyways my last time asking for help here...you may dislike me...but these folks done nothing to ya. Instead they are seeing something they luv destroyed. You guys should know full well that feeling.
They could use the dedication you guys have shown the past 2.5 yrs going on about SOE to the world at large. Even I gotta give ya folks that...stubborn as a mule.
I spend most my time online on blogs and starting to get rdy for FB season....probably wont be too many visits here between now and the Super Bowl.
Although I could make a special visit if missed heh
See ya for sure in Feb...if not sooner :P
And thanks to any joining this fight that CAN be won.
http://www.wvgazette.com/News/200805310524
http://postgazette.com/pg/08153/886523-298.stm
http://www.wvgazette.com/Opinion/Op-EdCommentaries/200805240262
http://wowktv.com/story.cfm?func=viewstory&storyid=38945
http://blogs.wsj.com/health/2008/04/25/panel-mylan-exec-governors-daughter-didnt-earn-mba/
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/08011/848439-298.stm?cmpid=news.xml
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/08125/879034-298.stm?cmpid=news.xml
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
What he said.
The MMO holocaust caused by NGE will never been forgotten as long as i can breath.
And you are very surprised and annoyed by the fact that people are still whining about the NGE and CU because It has been 3 years , You need to put in perspective like I have , We are owned . To stop "whining" about it allows SOE to win , not in customers I dare say but in the principal that just because its their company and their game gives them no right to discount the entire reason of their business existence (which they did with the NGE) to service the customers and comply to their wishes, SOE never did and I as well as many others are helpful reminders that they did not.
Unaware of the Jestor?
http://about.me/JestorRodo/
Friends enjoy his classic Vblog - https://www.facebook.com/GoodOldReliableNathan
It costs nothing to complain. Which is great because I'm really cheap.
Now I won't shut up simply because I know it bothers someone.
http://mmo-hell.blogspot.com/
http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/rejad
Consumers won't nor should they stop complaining using the most effective mode possible because it's the way business are ultimately kept accountable, Should someone make death threats- absolutely not, but there is nothing wrong with telling a new buyer what can happen if they deal with this company. Does anyone think another game will dare pull an SOE like makeover at this point? Not likely.
The OP and Wolverine boy are just going to have to deal with it, maybe to stop reading or posting here would be a good start. BTW, seeing ASU throttle the Wolverines was very enjoyable- thanks to a vastly over rated football program I had a good day last Sept and I am sure pretty happy Pryor went to OSU now.
It's not my business to answer for anyone but myself. I explained that a) I am not putting anything but my playtime energy into the conversation here on these boards, and b) in terms of "saving the world," I am devoting quite a bit of energy into helping my fellow man constructively, on a daily basis, and while I admire you for your crusade, it's not mine.
Remember I am only posting here because I am PLAYING another game RIGHT now as I post -- it is part of my daily multitasking.
Fight on, fight the good fight -- that has nothing to do with discussing SWG on the veteran's Forum, even if we happen to be in the right here.
Human beings contain multitudes -- we are capable if discussing an unethical company and unethical men on a given forum and at the same time making our world better. Those are far from mutually exclusive activities.
Either way how about taking your own advice, leave the forum immediately, and get on with your crusade?
Thank you for your time.
fishermage.blogspot.com
Consumers can call a product crap , and tell others not to buy it. But when it goes on for three years, it seems like everybody already knows how bad the game is.
Are you telling me and others not to post, just because we have different opinions than you? That really sounds arrogant man.
You can't say that civilization don't advance, however, for in every war they kill you in a new way.
-Will Rogers
It is far more easier to change the minds of a few than the minds of the masses.
Have you sent messages to SOE/LA about the management of SWG and how things could be better? Or how to win back customers?
Impossible that they will read, acknowledge and even take into consideration of your messages, you say?
Not as impossible as you may think as compared to trying to change the minds of the burnt masses.
What you say makes no sense really. How does changing the minds of a few have to do with SOE? Can you please rephrase what you wrote. I didn't say that it was impossible to change the minds of potential customers. I said that it was impossible to change SOE 's mind. As you know SOE is a crap company that dosen't listen to its customers. Basicly what your saying is that it isn't impossible to change SOE's mind.
You can't say that civilization don't advance, however, for in every war they kill you in a new way.
-Will Rogers
In short, they ruined the game, I can live with that, but they also ripped several hundred thousand people off, and were completely unrepentant while doing so. SOE is a corrupt company that does not care about it's customers. Where I am from we take consumer rights quite seriously.
So, you like the game. Good for you. That does not have a thing to do with why I trash the name of SOE everytime someone has the luck of bringing them up.
Ha, last thread my arse...
Played (more than a month): SWG, Second Life, Tabula Rasa, Lineage 2, Everquest 2, EvE, MxO, Ryzom.
Tried: WoW, Shadowbane, Anarchy Online, Everquest, WWII Online, Planetside
Beta: Lotro, Tabula Rasa, WAR.
Consumers can call a product crap , and tell others not to buy it. But when it goes on for three years, it seems like everybody already knows how bad the game is.
Are you telling me and others not to post, just because we have different opinions than you? That really sounds arrogant man.
I am glad I only read the first and last posts...You started this thread telling us to quit posting. So, don't be a hypocrite.
And ASU. Leave the Buckeyes out of it! You may proceed to bash Michigan...
Played (more than a month): SWG, Second Life, Tabula Rasa, Lineage 2, Everquest 2, EvE, MxO, Ryzom.
Tried: WoW, Shadowbane, Anarchy Online, Everquest, WWII Online, Planetside
Beta: Lotro, Tabula Rasa, WAR.
Are you telling me and others not to post, just because we have different opinions than you? That really sounds arrogant man.
He is not telling you what to do. he is saying that if YOU can't handle the opinions of others, if YOu are sick of it, if YOU are getting angry that it's gone on for this long, then maybe YOU need to remove yourself from the equation, get over it, and move on.
fishermage.blogspot.com
Consumers can call a product crap , and tell others not to buy it. But when it goes on for three years, it seems like everybody already knows how bad the game is.
Are you telling me and others not to post, just because we have different opinions than you? That really sounds arrogant man.
He is not telling you what to do. he is saying that if YOU can't handle the opinions of others, if YOu are sick of it, if YOU are getting angry that it's gone on for this long, then maybe YOU need to remove yourself from the equation, get over it, and move on.
Ok then since you can't handle my opinion why don't you take your own advice and leave. Again I must ask you , what are you even arguing about? Are you arguing for the sake of arguing?
You can't say that civilization don't advance, however, for in every war they kill you in a new way.
-Will Rogers
Are you telling me and others not to post, just because we have different opinions than you? That really sounds arrogant man.
He is not telling you what to do. he is saying that if YOU can't handle the opinions of others, if YOu are sick of it, if YOU are getting angry that it's gone on for this long, then maybe YOU need to remove yourself from the equation, get over it, and move on.
Ok then since you can't handle my opinion why don't you take your own advice and leave. Again I must ask you , what are you even arguing about? Are you arguing for the sake of arguing?
I can more than handle your opinion, in fact, you have yet to even deal with anything I have posted. I am answering your flaming, trollish posts quite nicely. I am arguing that you are not God and it is not up to YOU to determine "enough is enough," that that is up to the people and if such makes you angry or frustrated, perhaps you would be happier elsewhere.
I am not arguing for the sake of arguing; in fact, I am barely arguing in that what I am saying is so obvious. I am however countering everything you say quite nicely. You don't have a case and I have shown so.
fishermage.blogspot.com