If that's the case why are we wasting our time posting on forums, and not taking this up with the authorities ?
What you say proves my point. Posting on forums will get us nowhere, we need to finally band together and take out SOE. Do you really think SOE even reads any posts about SWG at this point? I don't want people to have false hope that forum posts, will make SOE bankrupt. If we want to take them down, we have to do it right, and in my opinion in style.
You can't say that civilization don't advance, however, for in every war they kill you in a new way. -Will Rogers
Conservatives' pessimism is conducive to their happiness in three ways. First, they are rarely surprised -- they are right more often than not about the course of events. Second, when they are wrong they are happy to be so. Third, because pessimistic conservatives put not their faith in princes -- government -- they accept that happiness is a function of fending for oneself. They believe that happiness is an activity -- it is inseparable from the pursuit of happiness.
You are irritating as hell the way you play around with words Fisher. I know better than to get caught up in that trap again thank ye very much :P
You didnt mention my suggestion for vets to put their energy into. These WVa folks are sure as heck more screwed over than you guys were...having a negative image over where they went to school could affect their chances at new jobs etc.
All of them have many thousands invested...yet now when someone sees a WVU degree, on their resume, it is going to invoke images of this scandal.
The nation needs to be aware of the BS...(which is funny cause the BS initials could be for the Bresch Scandal)...that is affecting WVU.
That isnt even mentioning the Governors hand in the whole mess at WVU...nor the rampant nepotism in state leadership.
It is a one party- Good Ole Boy network...and it is corrupt.
Here are some links to the actual story at bottom of page(oldest ones are furthest down I believe)....the previous site I listed is a blog that has a lot of info and discussions about everything.
This gets me nothing...I live in Michigan and went to Univ of Michigan-Flint and Mott CC, and know no one in WVa or anyone going/graduated from WVU. Like the SWG vets, I have gone at it with their sports fans several times....just like every other Michigan fan has been forced to.
This is different...no games. I became aware of this about a month ago, and have been following it since. Trying to raise awareness when I can. I saw someone trying to still get the feds involved on general brds today so thought why not put this here.
Unlike you guys, I can understand where losing their academic reputation in the nation/world could destroy lives(something I couldnt believe a vet claimed). They need outsiders help to draw attention to it all. Need the Feds actually IMO.
Their faculty has voted no-confidence in their pres Garrison...by like a whopping 560 to 37 votes...yet he still wont resign...and the BOG/Gov stands behind him(as they scammed to get him the job in first place...wasnt qualified...just connected).
Anyways my last time asking for help here...you may dislike me...but these folks done nothing to ya. Instead they are seeing something they luv destroyed. You guys should know full well that feeling.
They could use the dedication you guys have shown the past 2.5 yrs going on about SOE to the world at large. Even I gotta give ya folks that...stubborn as a mule.
I spend most my time online on blogs and starting to get rdy for FB season....probably wont be too many visits here between now and the Super Bowl.
Although I could make a special visit if missed heh
See ya for sure in Feb...if not sooner :P
And thanks to any joining this fight that CAN be won.
It's not my business to answer for anyone but myself. I explained that a) I am not putting anything but my playtime energy into the conversation here on these boards, and b) in terms of "saving the world," I am devoting quite a bit of energy into helping my fellow man constructively, on a daily basis, and while I admire you for your crusade, it's not mine.
Remember I am only posting here because I am PLAYING another game RIGHT now as I post -- it is part of my daily multitasking.
Fight on, fight the good fight -- that has nothing to do with discussing SWG on the veteran's Forum, even if we happen to be in the right here.
Human beings contain multitudes -- we are capable if discussing an unethical company and unethical men on a given forum and at the same time making our world better. Those are far from mutually exclusive activities.
Either way how about taking your own advice, leave the forum immediately, and get on with your crusade?
Thank you for your time.
Ah Fisher
You got sand in the Vag? That is a most "un-Fisher-like" response.
You once told me dont tell folks "to get over it"...offer something to em.
I did...suggested something to put their energies towards...and you dont like it. Instead trying to dictate what I do.
I know...lets play the "world according to Fisher"...where he can set the rules...and alter em as he sees fit.
Hmm...sort of like folks who complain about what SOE done to em.
Hypocrit much do we Fisher?
I know I know...it fails Phallacy 1 subsection 5 Article 3 second paragraph 6 lines in....whatever ya say :P
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
Originally posted by Moaky07 Originally posted by Fishermage
Originally posted by Moaky07 You are irritating as hell the way you play around with words Fisher. I know better than to get caught up in that trap again thank ye very much :P
You didnt mention my suggestion for vets to put their energy into. These WVa folks are sure as heck more screwed over than you guys were...having a negative image over where they went to school could affect their chances at new jobs etc. All of them have many thousands invested...yet now when someone sees a WVU degree, on their resume, it is going to invoke images of this scandal. The nation needs to be aware of the BS...(which is funny cause the BS initials could be for the Bresch Scandal)...that is affecting WVU. That isnt even mentioning the Governors hand in the whole mess at WVU...nor the rampant nepotism in state leadership. It is a one party- Good Ole Boy network...and it is corrupt.
Here are some links to the actual story at bottom of page(oldest ones are furthest down I believe)....the previous site I listed is a blog that has a lot of info and discussions about everything. This gets me nothing...I live in Michigan and went to Univ of Michigan-Flint and Mott CC, and know no one in WVa or anyone going/graduated from WVU. Like the SWG vets, I have gone at it with their sports fans several times....just like every other Michigan fan has been forced to. This is different...no games. I became aware of this about a month ago, and have been following it since. Trying to raise awareness when I can. I saw someone trying to still get the feds involved on general brds today so thought why not put this here. Unlike you guys, I can understand where losing their academic reputation in the nation/world could destroy lives(something I couldnt believe a vet claimed). They need outsiders help to draw attention to it all. Need the Feds actually IMO. Their faculty has voted no-confidence in their pres Garrison...by like a whopping 560 to 37 votes...yet he still wont resign...and the BOG/Gov stands behind him(as they scammed to get him the job in first place...wasnt qualified...just connected). Anyways my last time asking for help here...you may dislike me...but these folks done nothing to ya. Instead they are seeing something they luv destroyed. You guys should know full well that feeling. They could use the dedication you guys have shown the past 2.5 yrs going on about SOE to the world at large. Even I gotta give ya folks that...stubborn as a mule. I spend most my time online on blogs and starting to get rdy for FB season....probably wont be too many visits here between now and the Super Bowl. Although I could make a special visit if missed heh See ya for sure in Feb...if not sooner :P And thanks to any joining this fight that CAN be won. http://www.wvgazette.com/News/200805310524
It's not my business to answer for anyone but myself. I explained that a) I am not putting anything but my playtime energy into the conversation here on these boards, and b) in terms of "saving the world," I am devoting quite a bit of energy into helping my fellow man constructively, on a daily basis, and while I admire you for your crusade, it's not mine. Remember I am only posting here because I am PLAYING another game RIGHT now as I post -- it is part of my daily multitasking. Fight on, fight the good fight -- that has nothing to do with discussing SWG on the veteran's Forum, even if we happen to be in the right here. Human beings contain multitudes -- we are capable if discussing an unethical company and unethical men on a given forum and at the same time making our world better. Those are far from mutually exclusive activities.
Either way how about taking your own advice, leave the forum immediately, and get on with your crusade? Thank you for your time.
Ah Fisher
You got sand in the Vag? That is a most "un-Fisher-like" response.
You once told me dont tell folks "to get over it"...offer something to em. I did...suggested something to put their energies towards...and you dont like it. Instead trying to dictate what I do. I know...lets play the "world according to Fisher"...where he can set the rules...and alter em as he sees fit. Hmm...sort of like folks who complain about what SOE done to em. Hypocrit much do we Fisher? I know I know...it fails Phallacy 1 subsection 5 Article 3 second paragraph 6 lines in....whatever ya say :P
People are having a conversation here; they aren't putting energies towards anything; at least not much. I'm playing another game AS I POST -- I am also IMming with a few people. I just made myself a couple of hot dogs. Whoopie.
Either way, I answered for myself: I already AM putting most of my day into making this world a better place; I do so every day, most of the day -- my ministry is non-stop.
It has nothing to do with posting about a game on a forum board.
I am glad you have found a crusade. Enjoy it, make the world a better place too. I'm glad you have refrained from calling people mentally ill; shall I applaud you for that? Okay, bully for you!
My rules are extremely consistent -- please show me how I am being inconsistent -- saying so doesn't make it so.
Oh, and I wasn't dictating what you should do or trying to -- I was -- and you failed to realize it AGAIN -- reflecting your own tactics back atcha. I merely mirror you and you don't even see it, Moaky. Tsk tsk.
lol man I've been gone one day and you've already found another person to debate with.
This thread has turned into a war of words between Fishermage and every other person who dosen't agree with him. Even though I enjoy reading Fisher's arguments. Mostly do to the fact that I can finally understand them lol. We must get back on topic.
You can't say that civilization don't advance, however, for in every war they kill you in a new way. -Will Rogers
Originally posted by ThaneB Originally posted by Fishermage Oh, and I wasn't dictating what you should do or trying to -- I was -- and you failed to realize it AGAIN -- reflecting your own tactics back atcha. I merely mirror you and you don't even see it, Moaky. Tsk tsk.
lol man I've been gone one day and you've already found another person to debate with. This thread has turned into a war of words between Fishermage and every other person who dosen't agree with him. Even though I enjoy reading Fisher's arguments. Mostly do to the fact that I can finally understand them lol. We must get back on topic.
Agreed, but I NEVER, meaning ever ever ever (not once in years of posting on forums), START these things. Moaky, on the other hand, relishes starting these things. Notice HE interjected the off topic suggestion of getting involved in some political crusade in the middle of this thread. That is where the off topic behavior began.
I merely ANSWER other people's disagreements, and then answer their willful, misreadings of what I say, and then answer the willful misreadings that follow. Granted, I probably shouldn't feed the trolls, and maybe someday I'll learn to remain silent when people say ridiculous things.
The original OP was about "The thread to end all NGE threads"...what I mentioned was directly applicable pal.
You play on words...but you do pull hypocritical moves...no matter if you feel so or not.
The line "I was doing it on purpose" is about old.
As far as crusade...no...I may mention this subect in passing over the next couple of months. Obsessed folks like yourself are still at it 2.5 yrs later.
If I am a crusader...then the folks here are mentally ill. That is read STFU throwing names at me Fisher, when your backyard is cluttered.
This battle is wearing on ya Fish...you arent consistent like ya used to be.
Have a great day :P
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
The original OP was about "The thread to end all NGE threads"...what I mentioned was directly applicable pal.
You play on words...but you do pull hypocritical moves...no matter if you feel so or not. The line "I was doing it on purpose" is about old. As far as crusade...no...I may mention this subect in passing over the next couple of months. Obsessed folks like yourself are still at it 2.5 yrs later. If I am a crusader...then the folks here are mentally ill. That is read STFU throwing names at me Fisher, when your backyard is cluttered. This battle is wearing on ya Fish...you arent consistent like ya used to be. Have a great day :P
here you are, continuing with your off topic hijack yet AGAIN, and doing EXACTLY what I accused you of.
please show one single inconsistency in anything I have said. Saying something does not make it so. Now you have said so at least twice without proving it.
Oh, and I wasn't dictating what you should do or trying to -- I was -- and you failed to realize it AGAIN -- reflecting your own tactics back atcha.
I merely mirror you and you don't even see it, Moaky. Tsk tsk.
lol man I've been gone one day and you've already found another person to debate with.
This thread has turned into a war of words between Fishermage and every other person who dosen't agree with him. Even though I enjoy reading Fisher's arguments. Mostly do to the fact that I can finally understand them lol. We must get back on topic.
Agreed, but I NEVER, meaning ever ever ever (not once in years of posting on forums), START these things. Moaky, on the other hand, relishes starting these things. Notice HE interjected the off topic suggestion of getting involved in some political crusade in the middle of this thread. That is where the off topic behavior began.
I merely ANSWER other people's disagreements, and then answer their willful, misreadings of what I say, and then answer the willful misreadings that follow. Granted, I probably shouldn't feed the trolls, and maybe someday I'll learn to remain silent when people say ridiculous things.
I never said that you do start these things.But it is a fact that you never end them. I understand what your doing, but YOU should end the debate, unless you want it to last forever.
From experience I know that debates with you can last for days, and they certainly do get irritating. And when things get irritating people tend to become more hostile towards you. Mostly due to the fact that they finally want to end the discussion. Fisher your the kind of person that can argue passionately about almost anything. That isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it often leads to pointless debates.
I'll post something I wrote earlier on this thread to you. That post really made me wonder why you were arguing with me. Do you want people to agree with you? Do you want endless debates? I believe the post I will quote will answer those questions.
You can't say that civilization don't advance, however, for in every war they kill you in a new way. -Will Rogers
However, the sheer venom, the completely outrageous statements people make (I believe my favorite was the one that said John Smedley should be jailed), the absolute HATE (yes, HATE) for current SWG players ... all that three years after the fact, is, to be frank, rather pathetic.
I've seen people get over very painful divorces in less time than it has taken some of the people on this board to get over pre-CU.
Ding Ding Ding...winner
Well tbh I know one guy who thinks Smed should be jailed, but that thinking isn't motivated by hate. He really just thinks the guy committed fraud on a fairly massive scale, and should be held accountable for that.
Also, saying that this is all about something that happened 3 years ago is misleading. If you look at a number of threads on these boards, you'll notice that people highlight what appears to be a longstanding pattern of poor customer relations.
Further, I don't know that people feel hatred for current SWG players. I know I certainly don't, as some of them are my friends. I do know, however, that it is very divisive when you take something from one group, redesign it and give it to another. I'm aware that players didn't do this. Rather this whole target audience conflict was sparked by the actions SOE and LEC.
Possible solutions to mend this rift have been put forward to SOE and LEC, but they have not been implemented, sadly.
Very well said. But the reason I said it was something that happened three years ago, is because it is a game. Games are games, they shouldn't be taking so seriously. The argument against the NGE is really getting out of hand. Just like how there were some real life murders by players in Lineage 2 clans. You may think these threats against SOE employers are all jokes. But you will be surprised how crazy some people let themselves become over a game(ex. The Lineage 2 incidents). You should be angry about the NGE, I'm not telling you not to be, but don't let it make you a mindless person that just wants to destroy SOE and SWG. Control your anger, and be open to other viewpoints. And don't have blind devotion to something.
Thankfully the poster above stated his opinion clearly and well. The only thing I'd have to disagree on is the highlights on poor customer relations by SOE. If you hate SOE don't buy anything from them, that's how you can stop them. You don't have to try to destroy them, they are destroying themselves. Don't talk to them, and watch them fall.
I think there's something to the idea, "don't talk to them, and watch them fall." Talking to them really just adds to the frustration in my experience. I tried open and respectful communication for months, and it got me nowhere. Well it got my posts moved, deleted, locked etc.
Also, if people are really convinced that an injustice took place, certainly taking the personal vengeance route can only end in tears. I have posted another thread that explains where people can take their complaints to authorities who are listening, and have the power to intervene if the right conditions are met. These would not be complaints about a lost video game, however, they would be about money taken via misleading marketting (i.e. fraud allegations).
SOE ruined a great game, but talking to them won't make them change their minds. I mean it's been three years, if they were going to change their minds, they would of done it a few years back when SWG subscriber numbers were starting to diminish. The problem with taking to this to authorities is that mmorpgs are dynamic. They are supposed to always change and be a living world. So you can't you really say that SOE made too many changes, so we deserve our money back.
Actually you CAN argue that; such changes are only allowed, in that the EULA agreement is a non-negotiated contract between partis, only to what would be a reasonable person standard. If the actions of SOE went beyond a reasonable person's standard, then they went beyond what is legal.
That would be up to the authorities and the courts to decide over time; this is a VERY new area of law. We shall see. Regulation is often the result of abuse such as we have seen here.
Fair enough, please if your information is correct try to take this up with the authorities( no sarcasm). There's no need to post on the forums, if what you say is true.
Sorry, I choose to exercise my freedom and post. If you don't like that, or can't handle it perhaps the internet is not for you (no sarcasm either).
I agreed with your post. Were you angry, because I finally agreed with you? What the hell?
I apologize for not posting this earlier, it makes a huge point. You must love these long debates. In fact you love them so much you act like people aren't agreeing with you, thus you make the entire debate pointless.
You can't say that civilization don't advance, however, for in every war they kill you in a new way. -Will Rogers
Originally posted by ThaneB Originally posted by Fishermage
Originally posted by ThaneB
Originally posted by Fishermage
Oh, and I wasn't dictating what you should do or trying to -- I was -- and you failed to realize it AGAIN -- reflecting your own tactics back atcha. I merely mirror you and you don't even see it, Moaky. Tsk tsk.
lol man I've been gone one day and you've already found another person to debate with. This thread has turned into a war of words between Fishermage and every other person who dosen't agree with him. Even though I enjoy reading Fisher's arguments. Mostly do to the fact that I can finally understand them lol. We must get back on topic.
Agreed, but I NEVER, meaning ever ever ever (not once in years of posting on forums), START these things. Moaky, on the other hand, relishes starting these things. Notice HE interjected the off topic suggestion of getting involved in some political crusade in the middle of this thread. That is where the off topic behavior began. I merely ANSWER other people's disagreements, and then answer their willful, misreadings of what I say, and then answer the willful misreadings that follow. Granted, I probably shouldn't feed the trolls, and maybe someday I'll learn to remain silent when people say ridiculous things. I never said that you do start these things.But it is a fact that you never end them. I understand what your doing, but YOU should end the debate, unless you want it to last forever. From experience I know that debates with you can last for days, and they certainly do get irritating. And when things get irritating people tend to become more hostile towards you. Mostly due to the fact that they finally want to end the discussion. Fisher your the kind of person that can argue passionately about almost anything. That isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it often leads to pointless debates. I'll post something I wrote earlier on this thread to you. That post really made me wonder why you were arguing with me. Do you want people to agree with you? Do you want endless debates? I believe the post I will quote will answer those questions.
In fact I DO end them, then people willfully misread what i write and start the whole thing all over again. I don't really enjoy debating; at least not the lowq quality of debate we have on these forums; I much prefer to DISCUSS things.
Oh, and I wasn't dictating what you should do or trying to -- I was -- and you failed to realize it AGAIN -- reflecting your own tactics back atcha.
I merely mirror you and you don't even see it, Moaky. Tsk tsk.
lol man I've been gone one day and you've already found another person to debate with.
This thread has turned into a war of words between Fishermage and every other person who dosen't agree with him. Even though I enjoy reading Fisher's arguments. Mostly do to the fact that I can finally understand them lol. We must get back on topic.
Agreed, but I NEVER, meaning ever ever ever (not once in years of posting on forums), START these things. Moaky, on the other hand, relishes starting these things. Notice HE interjected the off topic suggestion of getting involved in some political crusade in the middle of this thread. That is where the off topic behavior began.
I merely ANSWER other people's disagreements, and then answer their willful, misreadings of what I say, and then answer the willful misreadings that follow. Granted, I probably shouldn't feed the trolls, and maybe someday I'll learn to remain silent when people say ridiculous things.
I never said that you do start these things.But it is a fact that you never end them. I understand what your doing, but YOU should end the debate, unless you want it to last forever.
From experience I know that debates with you can last for days, and they certainly do get irritating. And when things get irritating people tend to become more hostile towards you. Mostly due to the fact that they finally want to end the discussion. Fisher your the kind of person that can argue passionately about almost anything. That isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it often leads to pointless debates.
I'll post something I wrote earlier on this thread to you. That post really made me wonder why you were arguing with me. Do you want people to agree with you? Do you want endless debates? I believe the post I will quote will answer those questions.
In fact I DO end them, then people willfully misread what i write and start the whole thing all over again. I don't really enjoy debating; at least not the lowq quality of debate we have on these forums; I much prefer to DISCUSS things.
Fisher I'd suggest that you read the post I've just quoted. You have no arguments, and the post I quoted that you made, proves that. You love debates and love to keep them going.
You can't say that civilization don't advance, however, for in every war they kill you in a new way. -Will Rogers
yeah its time to find a new game but, i couldn't find one frankly, which one did you finally end up playing? i can't find anything to keep my interest for more then 3-4 months... nothings a true sandbox any more and once you've played a sandbox its hard to go to a linear game play style...so most people whine about it when they hit the same dead end i am at...instead i try to actively research almost every single new mmo that comes out but still haven't found one... just my views...
-Skip
Very true, that's why I quit playing mmorpgs for the time being. I've been playing single player games. In particular single player rpgs including Oblivion. Looks like my wait for a new sandbox mmo may be over. I have a feeling that Stargate Worlds will be like SWG.
That is the sad true state many SWG vets had to endure. We had to quit plying MMOs. And why? Because of some *¤#"#** idotes destroyed a perfectly good game.
Joke aside, its not at SEO we whine...its for the stupidity that mankind seems to be able to pick up where you least would expect to find it.
Originally posted by ThaneB Originally posted by Fishermage
Originally posted by ThaneB
Originally posted by Fishermage
Originally posted by ThaneB Originally posted by ArcAngel3
Originally posted by ThaneB
Originally posted by ArcAngel3
Originally posted by hipiap Originally posted by kobie173
That's not what he's saying at all. However, the sheer venom, the completely outrageous statements people make (I believe my favorite was the one that said John Smedley should be jailed), the absolute HATE (yes, HATE) for current SWG players ... all that three years after the fact, is, to be frank, rather pathetic.
I've seen people get over very painful divorces in less time than it has taken some of the people on this board to get over pre-CU. Ding Ding Ding...winner
Well tbh I know one guy who thinks Smed should be jailed, but that thinking isn't motivated by hate. He really just thinks the guy committed fraud on a fairly massive scale, and should be held accountable for that.
Also, saying that this is all about something that happened 3 years ago is misleading. If you look at a number of threads on these boards, you'll notice that people highlight what appears to be a longstanding pattern of poor customer relations. Further, I don't know that people feel hatred for current SWG players. I know I certainly don't, as some of them are my friends. I do know, however, that it is very divisive when you take something from one group, redesign it and give it to another. I'm aware that players didn't do this. Rather this whole target audience conflict was sparked by the actions SOE and LEC. Possible solutions to mend this rift have been put forward to SOE and LEC, but they have not been implemented, sadly.
Very well said. But the reason I said it was something that happened three years ago, is because it is a game. Games are games, they shouldn't be taking so seriously. The argument against the NGE is really getting out of hand. Just like how there were some real life murders by players in Lineage 2 clans. You may think these threats against SOE employers are all jokes. But you will be surprised how crazy some people let themselves become over a game(ex. The Lineage 2 incidents). You should be angry about the NGE, I'm not telling you not to be, but don't let it make you a mindless person that just wants to destroy SOE and SWG. Control your anger, and be open to other viewpoints. And don't have blind devotion to something. Thankfully the poster above stated his opinion clearly and well. The only thing I'd have to disagree on is the highlights on poor customer relations by SOE. If you hate SOE don't buy anything from them, that's how you can stop them. You don't have to try to destroy them, they are destroying themselves. Don't talk to them, and watch them fall.
I think there's something to the idea, "don't talk to them, and watch them fall." Talking to them really just adds to the frustration in my experience. I tried open and respectful communication for months, and it got me nowhere. Well it got my posts moved, deleted, locked etc.
Also, if people are really convinced that an injustice took place, certainly taking the personal vengeance route can only end in tears. I have posted another thread that explains where people can take their complaints to authorities who are listening, and have the power to intervene if the right conditions are met. These would not be complaints about a lost video game, however, they would be about money taken via misleading marketting (i.e. fraud allegations).
SOE ruined a great game, but talking to them won't make them change their minds. I mean it's been three years, if they were going to change their minds, they would of done it a few years back when SWG subscriber numbers were starting to diminish. The problem with taking to this to authorities is that mmorpgs are dynamic. They are supposed to always change and be a living world. So you can't you really say that SOE made too many changes, so we deserve our money back.
Actually you CAN argue that; such changes are only allowed, in that the EULA agreement is a non-negotiated contract between partis, only to what would be a reasonable person standard. If the actions of SOE went beyond a reasonable person's standard, then they went beyond what is legal. That would be up to the authorities and the courts to decide over time; this is a VERY new area of law. We shall see. Regulation is often the result of abuse such as we have seen here. Fair enough, please if your information is correct try to take this up with the authorities( no sarcasm). There's no need to post on the forums, if what you say is true.
Sorry, I choose to exercise my freedom and post. If you don't like that, or can't handle it perhaps the internet is not for you (no sarcasm either). I agreed with your post. Were you angry, because I finally agreed with you? What the hell? I apologize for not posting this earlier, it makes a huge point. You must love these long debates. In fact you love them so much you act like people aren't agreeing with you, thus you make the entire debate pointless.
read very carefully what happened there. In that instance, you were agreeing with me-- sort of, but then told me I had no reason to post any further. Saying so ignored everything i have said as to WHY I post, and was just a childish way of saying "shut up."
I have explained numerous times that I do not post to CHANGE anything, to hurt SOE, to get revenge for anything -- I post because I am enjoying the conversation.
I then, appropriately countered with the fact that I choose to exercise my freedom and post. I then returned your own style in saying that if YOU don't like it, YOU can stop posting.
Again, I was merely responding to you, in exactly the manner in which you replied to me (Just as I did with Moaky).
I know that annoys some people, obviously Moaky most of all, but you and he will get as you give from me. Actually, I'll be kinder than both of you, because i'll never flame you or anyone else.
Originally posted by ThaneB Originally posted by Fishermage
Originally posted by ThaneB
Originally posted by Fishermage
Originally posted by ThaneB Originally posted by Fishermage
Oh, and I wasn't dictating what you should do or trying to -- I was -- and you failed to realize it AGAIN -- reflecting your own tactics back atcha. I merely mirror you and you don't even see it, Moaky. Tsk tsk.
lol man I've been gone one day and you've already found another person to debate with. This thread has turned into a war of words between Fishermage and every other person who dosen't agree with him. Even though I enjoy reading Fisher's arguments. Mostly do to the fact that I can finally understand them lol. We must get back on topic.
Agreed, but I NEVER, meaning ever ever ever (not once in years of posting on forums), START these things. Moaky, on the other hand, relishes starting these things. Notice HE interjected the off topic suggestion of getting involved in some political crusade in the middle of this thread. That is where the off topic behavior began. I merely ANSWER other people's disagreements, and then answer their willful, misreadings of what I say, and then answer the willful misreadings that follow. Granted, I probably shouldn't feed the trolls, and maybe someday I'll learn to remain silent when people say ridiculous things. I never said that you do start these things.But it is a fact that you never end them. I understand what your doing, but YOU should end the debate, unless you want it to last forever. From experience I know that debates with you can last for days, and they certainly do get irritating. And when things get irritating people tend to become more hostile towards you. Mostly due to the fact that they finally want to end the discussion. Fisher your the kind of person that can argue passionately about almost anything. That isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it often leads to pointless debates. I'll post something I wrote earlier on this thread to you. That post really made me wonder why you were arguing with me. Do you want people to agree with you? Do you want endless debates? I believe the post I will quote will answer those questions.
In fact I DO end them, then people willfully misread what i write and start the whole thing all over again. I don't really enjoy debating; at least not the lowq quality of debate we have on these forums; I much prefer to DISCUSS things.
Fisher I'd suggest that you read the post I've just quoted. You have no arguments, and the post I quoted that you made, proves that. You love debates and love to keep them going.
what are you talking about? The post you quoted proves NOTHING of the sort. maybe if you try and explain HOW it does so, I'll have an idea of what you are talking about.
Has it ever occured to anyone that most of the post made aren't actually read before they are replied to as people just tend to like to argue for the sake of aruing and that eventually people end up arguing about something totally different then what they were originaly arguing with because they just done plain forgot?
However, the sheer venom, the completely outrageous statements people make (I believe my favorite was the one that said John Smedley should be jailed), the absolute HATE (yes, HATE) for current SWG players ... all that three years after the fact, is, to be frank, rather pathetic.
I've seen people get over very painful divorces in less time than it has taken some of the people on this board to get over pre-CU.
Ding Ding Ding...winner
Well tbh I know one guy who thinks Smed should be jailed, but that thinking isn't motivated by hate. He really just thinks the guy committed fraud on a fairly massive scale, and should be held accountable for that.
Also, saying that this is all about something that happened 3 years ago is misleading. If you look at a number of threads on these boards, you'll notice that people highlight what appears to be a longstanding pattern of poor customer relations.
Further, I don't know that people feel hatred for current SWG players. I know I certainly don't, as some of them are my friends. I do know, however, that it is very divisive when you take something from one group, redesign it and give it to another. I'm aware that players didn't do this. Rather this whole target audience conflict was sparked by the actions SOE and LEC.
Possible solutions to mend this rift have been put forward to SOE and LEC, but they have not been implemented, sadly.
Very well said. But the reason I said it was something that happened three years ago, is because it is a game. Games are games, they shouldn't be taking so seriously. The argument against the NGE is really getting out of hand. Just like how there were some real life murders by players in Lineage 2 clans. You may think these threats against SOE employers are all jokes. But you will be surprised how crazy some people let themselves become over a game(ex. The Lineage 2 incidents). You should be angry about the NGE, I'm not telling you not to be, but don't let it make you a mindless person that just wants to destroy SOE and SWG. Control your anger, and be open to other viewpoints. And don't have blind devotion to something.
Thankfully the poster above stated his opinion clearly and well. The only thing I'd have to disagree on is the highlights on poor customer relations by SOE. If you hate SOE don't buy anything from them, that's how you can stop them. You don't have to try to destroy them, they are destroying themselves. Don't talk to them, and watch them fall.
I think there's something to the idea, "don't talk to them, and watch them fall." Talking to them really just adds to the frustration in my experience. I tried open and respectful communication for months, and it got me nowhere. Well it got my posts moved, deleted, locked etc.
Also, if people are really convinced that an injustice took place, certainly taking the personal vengeance route can only end in tears. I have posted another thread that explains where people can take their complaints to authorities who are listening, and have the power to intervene if the right conditions are met. These would not be complaints about a lost video game, however, they would be about money taken via misleading marketting (i.e. fraud allegations).
SOE ruined a great game, but talking to them won't make them change their minds. I mean it's been three years, if they were going to change their minds, they would of done it a few years back when SWG subscriber numbers were starting to diminish. The problem with taking to this to authorities is that mmorpgs are dynamic. They are supposed to always change and be a living world. So you can't you really say that SOE made too many changes, so we deserve our money back.
Actually you CAN argue that; such changes are only allowed, in that the EULA agreement is a non-negotiated contract between partis, only to what would be a reasonable person standard. If the actions of SOE went beyond a reasonable person's standard, then they went beyond what is legal.
That would be up to the authorities and the courts to decide over time; this is a VERY new area of law. We shall see. Regulation is often the result of abuse such as we have seen here.
Fair enough, please if your information is correct try to take this up with the authorities( no sarcasm). There's no need to post on the forums, if what you say is true.
Sorry, I choose to exercise my freedom and post. If you don't like that, or can't handle it perhaps the internet is not for you (no sarcasm either).
I agreed with your post. Were you angry, because I finally agreed with you? What the hell?
I apologize for not posting this earlier, it makes a huge point. You must love these long debates. In fact you love them so much you act like people aren't agreeing with you, thus you make the entire debate pointless.
read very carefully what happened there. In that instance, you were agreeing with me-- sort of, but then told me I had no reason to post any further. Saying so ignored everything i have said as to WHY I post, and was just a childish way of saying "shut up."
I have explained numerous times that I do not post to CHANGE anything, to hurt SOE, to get revenge for anything -- I post because I am enjoying the conversation.
I then, appropriately countered with the fact that I choose to exercise my freedom and post. I then returned your own style in saying that if YOU don't like it, YOU can stop posting.
Again, I was merely responding to you, in exactly the manner in which you replied to me (Just as I did with Moaky).
I know that annoys some people, obviously Moaky most of all, but you and he will get as you give from me. Actually, I'll be kinder than both of you, because i'll never flame you or anyone else.
Actually I believe that you should stop making assumptions. My tone was different then the tone you make it sound like I was speaking in. I sure as hell wasn't trying to stop you from expressing your opinion. That's the problem with the internet.
Anyways it does prove my point my friend. Read all the posts i quoted and understand them. All of my valid points are included. Keep on saying that what they say proves nothing. Because anyone else reading those posts would automatically say the opposite.
My argument is solid, and clear. You cannot counter it, because it is your own words. Fisher my friend its over. Your "your point proves nothing" posts will help you no longer.
Since you do not understand what my argument is I will explain it to you clearly. With no beating around the bush.
Look at the post man,above you said that SOE may have commited a crime, but we shall see. I told you to take it up to the authorities if your information is correct. I wanted you to stop posting, because actions say more than words.
Even you cannot disagree that what I have said is clear and concrete. I have made a point, that even you Fisher cannot counter. You know why Fisher?It's because the evidence that supports my argument that you don't like it when people agree with you, is supported by your own words.You cannot deny that you said something, because I have quoted it up there for you. If you think I changed what you wrote go back through those posts you made and read them a million times if you wish.
You can't say that civilization don't advance, however, for in every war they kill you in a new way. -Will Rogers
Has it ever occured to anyone that most of the post made aren't actually read before they are replied to as people just tend to like to argue for the sake of aruing and that eventually people end up arguing about something totally different then what they were originaly arguing with because they just done plain forgot?
which is why I always quote, never pull anything out of context, and always try my best to answer what is written. If I choose to NOT answer every piece of what someone says, chances are either I don't disagree with that part, or I don't feel it's important enough to comment on. It doesn't help.
The problem here is that many people have an agenda, and try and stcik what people say INTO that agenda. Even *I* have an agenda -- I want what is best for SWG past present, and future. That agenda gets me flames ffrom all sides of the issue -- both sides view me as a different type of traitor -- which lets me know I am probably being pretty objective.
I'm a Star Wars fan and want there to be a great Star Wars MMORPG -- the dream of a great Star Wars MMORPG is something I've wanted all my life -- and never really had.
Pre-CU SWG was the closest thing to that -- and that was destroyed by some very small men. Since then I have done my best to improve the current game regardless of the ethical failings of the makers of that game, by suggesting ways to go forward.
Unfortunately the way they have moved "forward" from the NGE has been mixed at best. Some good things have been added, yet, at the same time, they still show in some ways they have learned nothing from the NGE, and still show they are not honerable men that we can trust as customers. That's a problem, if they ever want the game to thrive.
So, I happily enjoy my old "middle pillar" position, and chuckle sadly at the flames from both sides. It's all good -- in time, it all comes out in the wash.
As long as I am enjoying the conversation, I'll be here and on the O-Boards.
Originally posted by ThaneB Originally posted by Fishermage
Originally posted by ThaneB
Originally posted by Fishermage
Originally posted by ThaneB Originally posted by Fishermage
Originally posted by ThaneB
Originally posted by ArcAngel3
Originally posted by ThaneB
Originally posted by ArcAngel3
Originally posted by hipiap
Originally posted by kobie173
That's not what he's saying at all. However, the sheer venom, the completely outrageous statements people make (I believe my favorite was the one that said John Smedley should be jailed), the absolute HATE (yes, HATE) for current SWG players ... all that three years after the fact, is, to be frank, rather pathetic.
I've seen people get over very painful divorces in less time than it has taken some of the people on this board to get over pre-CU.
Ding Ding Ding...winner
Well tbh I know one guy who thinks Smed should be jailed, but that thinking isn't motivated by hate. He really just thinks the guy committed fraud on a fairly massive scale, and should be held accountable for that.
Also, saying that this is all about something that happened 3 years ago is misleading. If you look at a number of threads on these boards, you'll notice that people highlight what appears to be a longstanding pattern of poor customer relations. Further, I don't know that people feel hatred for current SWG players. I know I certainly don't, as some of them are my friends. I do know, however, that it is very divisive when you take something from one group, redesign it and give it to another. I'm aware that players didn't do this. Rather this whole target audience conflict was sparked by the actions SOE and LEC. Possible solutions to mend this rift have been put forward to SOE and LEC, but they have not been implemented, sadly.
Very well said. But the reason I said it was something that happened three years ago, is because it is a game. Games are games, they shouldn't be taking so seriously. The argument against the NGE is really getting out of hand. Just like how there were some real life murders by players in Lineage 2 clans. You may think these threats against SOE employers are all jokes. But you will be surprised how crazy some people let themselves become over a game(ex. The Lineage 2 incidents). You should be angry about the NGE, I'm not telling you not to be, but don't let it make you a mindless person that just wants to destroy SOE and SWG. Control your anger, and be open to other viewpoints. And don't have blind devotion to something. Thankfully the poster above stated his opinion clearly and well. The only thing I'd have to disagree on is the highlights on poor customer relations by SOE. If you hate SOE don't buy anything from them, that's how you can stop them. You don't have to try to destroy them, they are destroying themselves. Don't talk to them, and watch them fall.
I think there's something to the idea, "don't talk to them, and watch them fall." Talking to them really just adds to the frustration in my experience. I tried open and respectful communication for months, and it got me nowhere. Well it got my posts moved, deleted, locked etc.
Also, if people are really convinced that an injustice took place, certainly taking the personal vengeance route can only end in tears. I have posted another thread that explains where people can take their complaints to authorities who are listening, and have the power to intervene if the right conditions are met. These would not be complaints about a lost video game, however, they would be about money taken via misleading marketting (i.e. fraud allegations).
SOE ruined a great game, but talking to them won't make them change their minds. I mean it's been three years, if they were going to change their minds, they would of done it a few years back when SWG subscriber numbers were starting to diminish. The problem with taking to this to authorities is that mmorpgs are dynamic. They are supposed to always change and be a living world. So you can't you really say that SOE made too many changes, so we deserve our money back.
Actually you CAN argue that; such changes are only allowed, in that the EULA agreement is a non-negotiated contract between partis, only to what would be a reasonable person standard. If the actions of SOE went beyond a reasonable person's standard, then they went beyond what is legal. That would be up to the authorities and the courts to decide over time; this is a VERY new area of law. We shall see. Regulation is often the result of abuse such as we have seen here.
Fair enough, please if your information is correct try to take this up with the authorities( no sarcasm). There's no need to post on the forums, if what you say is true.
Sorry, I choose to exercise my freedom and post. If you don't like that, or can't handle it perhaps the internet is not for you (no sarcasm either). I agreed with your post. Were you angry, because I finally agreed with you? What the hell? I apologize for not posting this earlier, it makes a huge point. You must love these long debates. In fact you love them so much you act like people aren't agreeing with you, thus you make the entire debate pointless.
read very carefully what happened there. In that instance, you were agreeing with me-- sort of, but then told me I had no reason to post any further. Saying so ignored everything i have said as to WHY I post, and was just a childish way of saying "shut up." I have explained numerous times that I do not post to CHANGE anything, to hurt SOE, to get revenge for anything -- I post because I am enjoying the conversation. I then, appropriately countered with the fact that I choose to exercise my freedom and post. I then returned your own style in saying that if YOU don't like it, YOU can stop posting. Again, I was merely responding to you, in exactly the manner in which you replied to me (Just as I did with Moaky). I know that annoys some people, obviously Moaky most of all, but you and he will get as you give from me. Actually, I'll be kinder than both of you, because i'll never flame you or anyone else. Actually I believe that you should stop making assumptions. My tone was different then the tone you make it sound like I was speaking in. I sure as hell wasn't trying to stop you from expressing your opinion. That's the problem with the internet. Anyways it does prove my point my friend. Read all the posts i quoted and understand them. All of my valid points are included. Keep on saying that what they say proves nothing. Because anyone else reading those posts would automatically say the opposite. My argument is solid, and clear. You cannot counter it, because it is your own words. Fisher my friend its over. Your "your point proves nothing" posts will help you no longer. Since you do not understand what my argument is I will explain it to you clearly. With no beating around the bush. Look at the post man,above you said that SOE may have commited a crime, but we shall see. I told you to take it up to the authorities if your information is correct. I wanted you to stop posting, because actions say more than words. Even you cannot disagree that what I have said is clear and concrete. I have made a point, that even you Fisher cannot counter. You know why Fisher?It's because the evidence that supports my argument that you don't like it when people agree with you, is supported by your own words.You cannot deny that you said something, because I have quoted it up there for you. If you think I changed what you wrote go back through those posts you made and read them a million times if you wish.
Did you read what i wrote?
I do not post to FIGHT for anything; I post because I enjoy the conversation. I have said so several times in this thread, and many times in many other threads.
Admitting and discussing that what they did may be criminal is no reason to stop posting about this game.
Again I ask, what are you talking about? You have shown nothing.
Has it ever occured to anyone that most of the post made aren't actually read before they are replied to as people just tend to like to argue for the sake of aruing and that eventually people end up arguing about something totally different then what they were originaly arguing with because they just done plain forgot?
which is why I always quote, never pull anything out of context, and always try my best to answer what is written. If I choose to NOT answer every piece of what someone says, chances are either I don't disagree with that part, or I don't feel it's important enough to comment on. It doesn't help.
The problem here is that many people have an agenda, and try and stcik what people say INTO that agenda. Even *I* have an agenda -- I want what is best for SWG past present, and future. That agenda gets me flames ffrom all sides of the issue -- both sides view me as a different type of traitor -- which lets me know I am probably being pretty objective.
I'm a Star Wars fan and want there to be a great Star Wars MMORPG -- the dream of a great Star Wars MMORPG is something I've wanted all my life -- and never really had.
Pre-CU SWG was the closest thing to that -- and that was destroyed by some very small men. Since then I have done my best to improve the current game regardless of the ethical failings of the makers of that game, by suggesting ways to go forward.
Unfortunately the way they have moved "forward" from the NGE has been mixed at best. Some good things have been added, yet, at the same time, they still show in some ways they have learned nothing from the NGE, and still show they are not honerable men that we can trust as customers. That's a problem, if they ever want the game to thrive.
So, I happily enjoy my old "middle pillar" position, and chuckle sadly at the flames from both sides. It's all good -- in time, it all comes out in the wash.
As long as I am enjoying the conversation, I'll be here and on the O-Boards.
It's funny how you write stuff like this that makes me respect you and forget my argument, when I finally have an argument that can take you down lol
You can't say that civilization don't advance, however, for in every war they kill you in a new way. -Will Rogers
However, the sheer venom, the completely outrageous statements people make (I believe my favorite was the one that said John Smedley should be jailed), the absolute HATE (yes, HATE) for current SWG players ... all that three years after the fact, is, to be frank, rather pathetic.
I've seen people get over very painful divorces in less time than it has taken some of the people on this board to get over pre-CU.
Ding Ding Ding...winner
Well tbh I know one guy who thinks Smed should be jailed, but that thinking isn't motivated by hate. He really just thinks the guy committed fraud on a fairly massive scale, and should be held accountable for that.
Also, saying that this is all about something that happened 3 years ago is misleading. If you look at a number of threads on these boards, you'll notice that people highlight what appears to be a longstanding pattern of poor customer relations.
Further, I don't know that people feel hatred for current SWG players. I know I certainly don't, as some of them are my friends. I do know, however, that it is very divisive when you take something from one group, redesign it and give it to another. I'm aware that players didn't do this. Rather this whole target audience conflict was sparked by the actions SOE and LEC.
Possible solutions to mend this rift have been put forward to SOE and LEC, but they have not been implemented, sadly.
Very well said. But the reason I said it was something that happened three years ago, is because it is a game. Games are games, they shouldn't be taking so seriously. The argument against the NGE is really getting out of hand. Just like how there were some real life murders by players in Lineage 2 clans. You may think these threats against SOE employers are all jokes. But you will be surprised how crazy some people let themselves become over a game(ex. The Lineage 2 incidents). You should be angry about the NGE, I'm not telling you not to be, but don't let it make you a mindless person that just wants to destroy SOE and SWG. Control your anger, and be open to other viewpoints. And don't have blind devotion to something.
Thankfully the poster above stated his opinion clearly and well. The only thing I'd have to disagree on is the highlights on poor customer relations by SOE. If you hate SOE don't buy anything from them, that's how you can stop them. You don't have to try to destroy them, they are destroying themselves. Don't talk to them, and watch them fall.
I think there's something to the idea, "don't talk to them, and watch them fall." Talking to them really just adds to the frustration in my experience. I tried open and respectful communication for months, and it got me nowhere. Well it got my posts moved, deleted, locked etc.
Also, if people are really convinced that an injustice took place, certainly taking the personal vengeance route can only end in tears. I have posted another thread that explains where people can take their complaints to authorities who are listening, and have the power to intervene if the right conditions are met. These would not be complaints about a lost video game, however, they would be about money taken via misleading marketting (i.e. fraud allegations).
SOE ruined a great game, but talking to them won't make them change their minds. I mean it's been three years, if they were going to change their minds, they would of done it a few years back when SWG subscriber numbers were starting to diminish. The problem with taking to this to authorities is that mmorpgs are dynamic. They are supposed to always change and be a living world. So you can't you really say that SOE made too many changes, so we deserve our money back.
Actually you CAN argue that; such changes are only allowed, in that the EULA agreement is a non-negotiated contract between partis, only to what would be a reasonable person standard. If the actions of SOE went beyond a reasonable person's standard, then they went beyond what is legal.
That would be up to the authorities and the courts to decide over time; this is a VERY new area of law. We shall see. Regulation is often the result of abuse such as we have seen here.
Fair enough, please if your information is correct try to take this up with the authorities( no sarcasm). There's no need to post on the forums, if what you say is true.
Sorry, I choose to exercise my freedom and post. If you don't like that, or can't handle it perhaps the internet is not for you (no sarcasm either).
I agreed with your post. Were you angry, because I finally agreed with you? What the hell?
I apologize for not posting this earlier, it makes a huge point. You must love these long debates. In fact you love them so much you act like people aren't agreeing with you, thus you make the entire debate pointless.
read very carefully what happened there. In that instance, you were agreeing with me-- sort of, but then told me I had no reason to post any further. Saying so ignored everything i have said as to WHY I post, and was just a childish way of saying "shut up."
I have explained numerous times that I do not post to CHANGE anything, to hurt SOE, to get revenge for anything -- I post because I am enjoying the conversation.
I then, appropriately countered with the fact that I choose to exercise my freedom and post. I then returned your own style in saying that if YOU don't like it, YOU can stop posting.
Again, I was merely responding to you, in exactly the manner in which you replied to me (Just as I did with Moaky).
I know that annoys some people, obviously Moaky most of all, but you and he will get as you give from me. Actually, I'll be kinder than both of you, because i'll never flame you or anyone else.
Actually I believe that you should stop making assumptions. My tone was different then the tone you make it sound like I was speaking in. I sure as hell wasn't trying to stop you from expressing your opinion. That's the problem with the internet.
Anyways it does prove my point my friend. Read all the posts i quoted and understand them. All of my valid points are included. Keep on saying that what they say proves nothing. Because anyone else reading those posts would automatically say the opposite.
My argument is solid, and clear. You cannot counter it, because it is your own words. Fisher my friend its over. Your "your point proves nothing" posts will help you no longer.
Since you do not understand what my argument is I will explain it to you clearly. With no beating around the bush.
Look at the post man,above you said that SOE may have commited a crime, but we shall see. I told you to take it up to the authorities if your information is correct. I wanted you to stop posting, because actions say more than words.
Even you cannot disagree that what I have said is clear and concrete. I have made a point, that even you Fisher cannot counter. You know why Fisher?It's because the evidence that supports my argument that you don't like it when people agree with you, is supported by your own words.You cannot deny that you said something, because I have quoted it up there for you. If you think I changed what you wrote go back through those posts you made and read them a million times if you wish.
Did you read what i wrote?
I do not post to FIGHT for anything; I post because I enjoy the conversation. I have said so several times in this thread, and many times in many other threads.
Admitting and discussing that what they did may be criminal is no reason to stop posting about this game.
Again I ask, what are you talking about? You have shown nothing.
Fisher I said that I agreed with you and you thought that I didn't. That made me believe that you don't like it when people agree with you. It's that simple man I'm sorry that I made it lengthy.
You can't say that civilization don't advance, however, for in every war they kill you in a new way. -Will Rogers
Originally posted by ThaneB Originally posted by Fishermage
Originally posted by ThaneB
Originally posted by Fishermage
Originally posted by ThaneB Originally posted by Fishermage
Originally posted by ThaneB
Originally posted by Fishermage
Originally posted by ThaneB
Originally posted by ArcAngel3
Originally posted by ThaneB
Originally posted by ArcAngel3
Originally posted by hipiap
Originally posted by kobie173
That's not what he's saying at all. However, the sheer venom, the completely outrageous statements people make (I believe my favorite was the one that said John Smedley should be jailed), the absolute HATE (yes, HATE) for current SWG players ... all that three years after the fact, is, to be frank, rather pathetic.
I've seen people get over very painful divorces in less time than it has taken some of the people on this board to get over pre-CU.
Ding Ding Ding...winner
Well tbh I know one guy who thinks Smed should be jailed, but that thinking isn't motivated by hate. He really just thinks the guy committed fraud on a fairly massive scale, and should be held accountable for that.
Also, saying that this is all about something that happened 3 years ago is misleading. If you look at a number of threads on these boards, you'll notice that people highlight what appears to be a longstanding pattern of poor customer relations. Further, I don't know that people feel hatred for current SWG players. I know I certainly don't, as some of them are my friends. I do know, however, that it is very divisive when you take something from one group, redesign it and give it to another. I'm aware that players didn't do this. Rather this whole target audience conflict was sparked by the actions SOE and LEC. Possible solutions to mend this rift have been put forward to SOE and LEC, but they have not been implemented, sadly.
Very well said. But the reason I said it was something that happened three years ago, is because it is a game. Games are games, they shouldn't be taking so seriously. The argument against the NGE is really getting out of hand. Just like how there were some real life murders by players in Lineage 2 clans. You may think these threats against SOE employers are all jokes. But you will be surprised how crazy some people let themselves become over a game(ex. The Lineage 2 incidents). You should be angry about the NGE, I'm not telling you not to be, but don't let it make you a mindless person that just wants to destroy SOE and SWG. Control your anger, and be open to other viewpoints. And don't have blind devotion to something. Thankfully the poster above stated his opinion clearly and well. The only thing I'd have to disagree on is the highlights on poor customer relations by SOE. If you hate SOE don't buy anything from them, that's how you can stop them. You don't have to try to destroy them, they are destroying themselves. Don't talk to them, and watch them fall.
I think there's something to the idea, "don't talk to them, and watch them fall." Talking to them really just adds to the frustration in my experience. I tried open and respectful communication for months, and it got me nowhere. Well it got my posts moved, deleted, locked etc.
Also, if people are really convinced that an injustice took place, certainly taking the personal vengeance route can only end in tears. I have posted another thread that explains where people can take their complaints to authorities who are listening, and have the power to intervene if the right conditions are met. These would not be complaints about a lost video game, however, they would be about money taken via misleading marketting (i.e. fraud allegations).
SOE ruined a great game, but talking to them won't make them change their minds. I mean it's been three years, if they were going to change their minds, they would of done it a few years back when SWG subscriber numbers were starting to diminish. The problem with taking to this to authorities is that mmorpgs are dynamic. They are supposed to always change and be a living world. So you can't you really say that SOE made too many changes, so we deserve our money back.
Actually you CAN argue that; such changes are only allowed, in that the EULA agreement is a non-negotiated contract between partis, only to what would be a reasonable person standard. If the actions of SOE went beyond a reasonable person's standard, then they went beyond what is legal. That would be up to the authorities and the courts to decide over time; this is a VERY new area of law. We shall see. Regulation is often the result of abuse such as we have seen here.
Fair enough, please if your information is correct try to take this up with the authorities( no sarcasm). There's no need to post on the forums, if what you say is true.
Sorry, I choose to exercise my freedom and post. If you don't like that, or can't handle it perhaps the internet is not for you (no sarcasm either).
I agreed with your post. Were you angry, because I finally agreed with you? What the hell? I apologize for not posting this earlier, it makes a huge point. You must love these long debates. In fact you love them so much you act like people aren't agreeing with you, thus you make the entire debate pointless.
read very carefully what happened there. In that instance, you were agreeing with me-- sort of, but then told me I had no reason to post any further. Saying so ignored everything i have said as to WHY I post, and was just a childish way of saying "shut up." I have explained numerous times that I do not post to CHANGE anything, to hurt SOE, to get revenge for anything -- I post because I am enjoying the conversation. I then, appropriately countered with the fact that I choose to exercise my freedom and post. I then returned your own style in saying that if YOU don't like it, YOU can stop posting. Again, I was merely responding to you, in exactly the manner in which you replied to me (Just as I did with Moaky). I know that annoys some people, obviously Moaky most of all, but you and he will get as you give from me. Actually, I'll be kinder than both of you, because i'll never flame you or anyone else. Actually I believe that you should stop making assumptions. My tone was different then the tone you make it sound like I was speaking in. I sure as hell wasn't trying to stop you from expressing your opinion. That's the problem with the internet. Anyways it does prove my point my friend. Read all the posts i quoted and understand them. All of my valid points are included. Keep on saying that what they say proves nothing. Because anyone else reading those posts would automatically say the opposite. My argument is solid, and clear. You cannot counter it, because it is your own words. Fisher my friend its over. Your "your point proves nothing" posts will help you no longer. Since you do not understand what my argument is I will explain it to you clearly. With no beating around the bush. Look at the post man,above you said that SOE may have commited a crime, but we shall see. I told you to take it up to the authorities if your information is correct. I wanted you to stop posting, because actions say more than words. Even you cannot disagree that what I have said is clear and concrete. I have made a point, that even you Fisher cannot counter. You know why Fisher?It's because the evidence that supports my argument that you don't like it when people agree with you, is supported by your own words.You cannot deny that you said something, because I have quoted it up there for you. If you think I changed what you wrote go back through those posts you made and read them a million times if you wish.
Did you read what i wrote? I do not post to FIGHT for anything; I post because I enjoy the conversation. I have said so several times in this thread, and many times in many other threads. Admitting and discussing that what they did may be criminal is no reason to stop posting about this game. Again I ask, what are you talking about? You have shown nothing.
Fisher I said that I agreed with you and you thought that I didn't. That made me believe that you don't like it when people agree with you. It's that simple man I'm sorry that I made it lengthy.
yeah, you agreed with me, when I said that what they did might be criminal (fraud) or might be worthy of litigation (violation of contract). THEN you said that I should stop posting. THAT was the part of what you said that I take issue with, and I still do.
The fact that SOE may be criminally or civily liable for what they have done has nothing to do with why I post.
I must apologize, because I worded that post very poorly. I meant that you should take action. I should of never told you to stop posting. You've made your point, and I agree with it.
You can't say that civilization don't advance, however, for in every war they kill you in a new way. -Will Rogers
Comments
If that's the case why are we wasting our time posting on forums, and not taking this up with the authorities ?
What you say proves my point. Posting on forums will get us nowhere, we need to finally band together and take out SOE. Do you really think SOE even reads any posts about SWG at this point? I don't want people to have false hope that forum posts, will make SOE bankrupt. If we want to take them down, we have to do it right, and in my opinion in style.
You can't say that civilization don't advance, however, for in every war they kill you in a new way.
-Will Rogers
FTC Form:
https://rn.ftc.gov/pls/dod/wsolcq$.startup?Z_ORG_CODE=PU01
ArcAngle3's Thread:
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/183200
and post:
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/2050852#2050852
And that is why...
Conservatives' pessimism is conducive to their happiness in three ways. First, they are rarely surprised -- they are right more often than not about the course of events. Second, when they are wrong they are happy to be so. Third, because pessimistic conservatives put not their faith in princes -- government -- they accept that happiness is a function of fending for oneself. They believe that happiness is an activity -- it is inseparable from the pursuit of happiness.
FTC Form:
https://rn.ftc.gov/pls/dod/wsolcq$.startup?Z_ORG_CODE=PU01
ArcAngle3's Thread:
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/183200
and post:
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/2050852#2050852
Thanks for the links, I'll look into this.
You can't say that civilization don't advance, however, for in every war they kill you in a new way.
-Will Rogers
It's not my business to answer for anyone but myself. I explained that a) I am not putting anything but my playtime energy into the conversation here on these boards, and b) in terms of "saving the world," I am devoting quite a bit of energy into helping my fellow man constructively, on a daily basis, and while I admire you for your crusade, it's not mine.
Remember I am only posting here because I am PLAYING another game RIGHT now as I post -- it is part of my daily multitasking.
Fight on, fight the good fight -- that has nothing to do with discussing SWG on the veteran's Forum, even if we happen to be in the right here.
Human beings contain multitudes -- we are capable if discussing an unethical company and unethical men on a given forum and at the same time making our world better. Those are far from mutually exclusive activities.
Either way how about taking your own advice, leave the forum immediately, and get on with your crusade?
Thank you for your time.
Ah Fisher
You got sand in the Vag? That is a most "un-Fisher-like" response.
You once told me dont tell folks "to get over it"...offer something to em.
I did...suggested something to put their energies towards...and you dont like it. Instead trying to dictate what I do.
I know...lets play the "world according to Fisher"...where he can set the rules...and alter em as he sees fit.
Hmm...sort of like folks who complain about what SOE done to em.
Hypocrit much do we Fisher?
I know I know...it fails Phallacy 1 subsection 5 Article 3 second paragraph 6 lines in....whatever ya say :P
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
It's not my business to answer for anyone but myself. I explained that a) I am not putting anything but my playtime energy into the conversation here on these boards, and b) in terms of "saving the world," I am devoting quite a bit of energy into helping my fellow man constructively, on a daily basis, and while I admire you for your crusade, it's not mine.
Remember I am only posting here because I am PLAYING another game RIGHT now as I post -- it is part of my daily multitasking.
Fight on, fight the good fight -- that has nothing to do with discussing SWG on the veteran's Forum, even if we happen to be in the right here.
Human beings contain multitudes -- we are capable if discussing an unethical company and unethical men on a given forum and at the same time making our world better. Those are far from mutually exclusive activities.
Either way how about taking your own advice, leave the forum immediately, and get on with your crusade?
Thank you for your time.
Ah Fisher
You got sand in the Vag? That is a most "un-Fisher-like" response.
You once told me dont tell folks "to get over it"...offer something to em.
I did...suggested something to put their energies towards...and you dont like it. Instead trying to dictate what I do.
I know...lets play the "world according to Fisher"...where he can set the rules...and alter em as he sees fit.
Hmm...sort of like folks who complain about what SOE done to em.
Hypocrit much do we Fisher?
I know I know...it fails Phallacy 1 subsection 5 Article 3 second paragraph 6 lines in....whatever ya say :P
People are having a conversation here; they aren't putting energies towards anything; at least not much. I'm playing another game AS I POST -- I am also IMming with a few people. I just made myself a couple of hot dogs. Whoopie.
Either way, I answered for myself: I already AM putting most of my day into making this world a better place; I do so every day, most of the day -- my ministry is non-stop.
It has nothing to do with posting about a game on a forum board.
I am glad you have found a crusade. Enjoy it, make the world a better place too. I'm glad you have refrained from calling people mentally ill; shall I applaud you for that? Okay, bully for you!
My rules are extremely consistent -- please show me how I am being inconsistent -- saying so doesn't make it so.
fishermage.blogspot.com
Oh, and I wasn't dictating what you should do or trying to -- I was -- and you failed to realize it AGAIN -- reflecting your own tactics back atcha.
I merely mirror you and you don't even see it, Moaky. Tsk tsk.
fishermage.blogspot.com
lol man I've been gone one day and you've already found another person to debate with.
This thread has turned into a war of words
between Fishermage and every other person who dosen't agree with him. Even though I enjoy reading Fisher's arguments. Mostly do to the fact that I can finally understand them lol. We must get back on topic.
You can't say that civilization don't advance, however, for in every war they kill you in a new way.
-Will Rogers
lol man I've been gone one day and you've already found another person to debate with.
This thread has turned into a war of words
Agreed, but I NEVER, meaning ever ever ever (not once in years of posting on forums), START these things. Moaky, on the other hand, relishes starting these things. Notice HE interjected the off topic suggestion of getting involved in some political crusade in the middle of this thread. That is where the off topic behavior began.
I merely ANSWER other people's disagreements, and then answer their willful, misreadings of what I say, and then answer the willful misreadings that follow. Granted, I probably shouldn't feed the trolls, and maybe someday I'll learn to remain silent when people say ridiculous things.
fishermage.blogspot.com
Um Fisher
The original OP was about "The thread to end all NGE threads"...what I mentioned was directly applicable pal.
You play on words...but you do pull hypocritical moves...no matter if you feel so or not.
The line "I was doing it on purpose" is about old.
As far as crusade...no...I may mention this subect in passing over the next couple of months. Obsessed folks like yourself are still at it 2.5 yrs later.
If I am a crusader...then the folks here are mentally ill. That is read STFU throwing names at me Fisher, when your backyard is cluttered.
This battle is wearing on ya Fish...you arent consistent like ya used to be.
Have a great day :P
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
here you are, continuing with your off topic hijack yet AGAIN, and doing EXACTLY what I accused you of.
please show one single inconsistency in anything I have said. Saying something does not make it so. Now you have said so at least twice without proving it.
You have a great day yourself.
fishermage.blogspot.com
lol man I've been gone one day and you've already found another person to debate with.
This thread has turned into a war of words
Agreed, but I NEVER, meaning ever ever ever (not once in years of posting on forums), START these things. Moaky, on the other hand, relishes starting these things. Notice HE interjected the off topic suggestion of getting involved in some political crusade in the middle of this thread. That is where the off topic behavior began.
I merely ANSWER other people's disagreements, and then answer their willful, misreadings of what I say, and then answer the willful misreadings that follow. Granted, I probably shouldn't feed the trolls, and maybe someday I'll learn to remain silent when people say ridiculous things.
I never said that you do start these things.But it is a fact that you never end them. I understand what your doing, but YOU should end the debate, unless you want it to last forever.
From experience I know that debates with you can last for days, and they certainly do get irritating. And when things get irritating people tend to become more hostile towards you. Mostly due to the fact that they finally want to end the discussion. Fisher your the kind of person that can argue passionately about almost anything. That isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it often leads to pointless debates.
I'll post something I wrote earlier on this thread to you. That post really made me wonder why you were arguing with me. Do you want people to agree with you? Do you want endless debates? I believe the post I will quote will answer those questions.
You can't say that civilization don't advance, however, for in every war they kill you in a new way.
-Will Rogers
However, the sheer venom, the completely outrageous statements people make (I believe my favorite was the one that said John Smedley should be jailed), the absolute HATE (yes, HATE) for current SWG players ... all that three years after the fact, is, to be frank, rather pathetic.
I've seen people get over very painful divorces in less time than it has taken some of the people on this board to get over pre-CU.
Ding Ding Ding...winner
Well tbh I know one guy who thinks Smed should be jailed, but that thinking isn't motivated by hate. He really just thinks the guy committed fraud on a fairly massive scale, and should be held accountable for that.
Also, saying that this is all about something that happened 3 years ago is misleading. If you look at a number of threads on these boards, you'll notice that people highlight what appears to be a longstanding pattern of poor customer relations.
Further, I don't know that people feel hatred for current SWG players. I know I certainly don't, as some of them are my friends. I do know, however, that it is very divisive when you take something from one group, redesign it and give it to another. I'm aware that players didn't do this. Rather this whole target audience conflict was sparked by the actions SOE and LEC.
Possible solutions to mend this rift have been put forward to SOE and LEC, but they have not been implemented, sadly.
Very well said. But the reason I said it was something that happened three years ago, is because it is a game. Games are games, they shouldn't be taking so seriously. The argument against the NGE is really getting out of hand. Just like how there were some real life murders by players in Lineage 2 clans. You may think these threats against SOE employers are all jokes. But you will be surprised how crazy some people let themselves become over a game(ex. The Lineage 2 incidents). You should be angry about the NGE, I'm not telling you not to be, but don't let it make you a mindless person that just wants to destroy SOE and SWG. Control your anger, and be open to other viewpoints. And don't have blind devotion to something.
Thankfully the poster above stated his opinion clearly and well. The only thing I'd have to disagree on is the highlights on poor customer relations by SOE. If you hate SOE don't buy anything from them, that's how you can stop them. You don't have to try to destroy them, they are destroying themselves. Don't talk to them, and watch them fall.
I think there's something to the idea, "don't talk to them, and watch them fall." Talking to them really just adds to the frustration in my experience. I tried open and respectful communication for months, and it got me nowhere. Well it got my posts moved, deleted, locked etc.
Also, if people are really convinced that an injustice took place, certainly taking the personal vengeance route can only end in tears. I have posted another thread that explains where people can take their complaints to authorities who are listening, and have the power to intervene if the right conditions are met. These would not be complaints about a lost video game, however, they would be about money taken via misleading marketting (i.e. fraud allegations).
Actually you CAN argue that; such changes are only allowed, in that the EULA agreement is a non-negotiated contract between partis, only to what would be a reasonable person standard. If the actions of SOE went beyond a reasonable person's standard, then they went beyond what is legal.
That would be up to the authorities and the courts to decide over time; this is a VERY new area of law. We shall see. Regulation is often the result of abuse such as we have seen here.
Fair enough, please if your information is correct try to take this up with the authorities( no sarcasm). There's no need to post on the forums, if what you say is true.
Sorry, I choose to exercise my freedom and post. If you don't like that, or can't handle it perhaps the internet is not for you (no sarcasm either).
I agreed with your post. Were you angry, because I finally agreed with you? What the hell?
I apologize for not posting this earlier, it makes a huge point. You must love these long debates. In fact you love them so much you act like people aren't agreeing with you, thus you make the entire debate pointless.
You can't say that civilization don't advance, however, for in every war they kill you in a new way.
-Will Rogers
lol man I've been gone one day and you've already found another person to debate with.
This thread has turned into a war of words
Agreed, but I NEVER, meaning ever ever ever (not once in years of posting on forums), START these things. Moaky, on the other hand, relishes starting these things. Notice HE interjected the off topic suggestion of getting involved in some political crusade in the middle of this thread. That is where the off topic behavior began.
I merely ANSWER other people's disagreements, and then answer their willful, misreadings of what I say, and then answer the willful misreadings that follow. Granted, I probably shouldn't feed the trolls, and maybe someday I'll learn to remain silent when people say ridiculous things.
I never said that you do start these things.But it is a fact that you never end them. I understand what your doing, but YOU should end the debate, unless you want it to last forever.
From experience I know that debates with you can last for days, and they certainly do get irritating. And when things get irritating people tend to become more hostile towards you. Mostly due to the fact that they finally want to end the discussion. Fisher your the kind of person that can argue passionately about almost anything. That isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it often leads to pointless debates.
I'll post something I wrote earlier on this thread to you. That post really made me wonder why you were arguing with me. Do you want people to agree with you? Do you want endless debates? I believe the post I will quote will answer those questions.
In fact I DO end them, then people willfully misread what i write and start the whole thing all over again. I don't really enjoy debating; at least not the lowq quality of debate we have on these forums; I much prefer to DISCUSS things.
fishermage.blogspot.com
lol man I've been gone one day and you've already found another person to debate with.
This thread has turned into a war of words
Agreed, but I NEVER, meaning ever ever ever (not once in years of posting on forums), START these things. Moaky, on the other hand, relishes starting these things. Notice HE interjected the off topic suggestion of getting involved in some political crusade in the middle of this thread. That is where the off topic behavior began.
I merely ANSWER other people's disagreements, and then answer their willful, misreadings of what I say, and then answer the willful misreadings that follow. Granted, I probably shouldn't feed the trolls, and maybe someday I'll learn to remain silent when people say ridiculous things.
I never said that you do start these things.But it is a fact that you never end them. I understand what your doing, but YOU should end the debate, unless you want it to last forever.
From experience I know that debates with you can last for days, and they certainly do get irritating. And when things get irritating people tend to become more hostile towards you. Mostly due to the fact that they finally want to end the discussion. Fisher your the kind of person that can argue passionately about almost anything. That isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it often leads to pointless debates.
I'll post something I wrote earlier on this thread to you. That post really made me wonder why you were arguing with me. Do you want people to agree with you? Do you want endless debates? I believe the post I will quote will answer those questions.
In fact I DO end them, then people willfully misread what i write and start the whole thing all over again. I don't really enjoy debating; at least not the lowq quality of debate we have on these forums; I much prefer to DISCUSS things.
Fisher I'd suggest that you read the post I've just quoted. You have no arguments, and the post I quoted that you made, proves that. You love debates and love to keep them going.
You can't say that civilization don't advance, however, for in every war they kill you in a new way.
-Will Rogers
Very true, that's why I quit playing mmorpgs for the time being. I've been playing single player games. In particular single player rpgs including Oblivion. Looks like my wait for a new sandbox mmo may be over. I have a feeling that Stargate Worlds will be like SWG.
That is the sad true state many SWG vets had to endure. We had to quit plying MMOs. And why? Because of some *¤#"#** idotes destroyed a perfectly good game.
Joke aside, its not at SEO we whine...its for the stupidity that mankind seems to be able to pick up where you least would expect to find it.
However, the sheer venom, the completely outrageous statements people make (I believe my favorite was the one that said John Smedley should be jailed), the absolute HATE (yes, HATE) for current SWG players ... all that three years after the fact, is, to be frank, rather pathetic.
I've seen people get over very painful divorces in less time than it has taken some of the people on this board to get over pre-CU.
Ding Ding Ding...winner
Well tbh I know one guy who thinks Smed should be jailed, but that thinking isn't motivated by hate. He really just thinks the guy committed fraud on a fairly massive scale, and should be held accountable for that.
Also, saying that this is all about something that happened 3 years ago is misleading. If you look at a number of threads on these boards, you'll notice that people highlight what appears to be a longstanding pattern of poor customer relations.
Further, I don't know that people feel hatred for current SWG players. I know I certainly don't, as some of them are my friends. I do know, however, that it is very divisive when you take something from one group, redesign it and give it to another. I'm aware that players didn't do this. Rather this whole target audience conflict was sparked by the actions SOE and LEC.
Possible solutions to mend this rift have been put forward to SOE and LEC, but they have not been implemented, sadly.
Very well said. But the reason I said it was something that happened three years ago, is because it is a game. Games are games, they shouldn't be taking so seriously. The argument against the NGE is really getting out of hand. Just like how there were some real life murders by players in Lineage 2 clans. You may think these threats against SOE employers are all jokes. But you will be surprised how crazy some people let themselves become over a game(ex. The Lineage 2 incidents). You should be angry about the NGE, I'm not telling you not to be, but don't let it make you a mindless person that just wants to destroy SOE and SWG. Control your anger, and be open to other viewpoints. And don't have blind devotion to something.
Thankfully the poster above stated his opinion clearly and well. The only thing I'd have to disagree on is the highlights on poor customer relations by SOE. If you hate SOE don't buy anything from them, that's how you can stop them. You don't have to try to destroy them, they are destroying themselves. Don't talk to them, and watch them fall.
I think there's something to the idea, "don't talk to them, and watch them fall." Talking to them really just adds to the frustration in my experience. I tried open and respectful communication for months, and it got me nowhere. Well it got my posts moved, deleted, locked etc.
Also, if people are really convinced that an injustice took place, certainly taking the personal vengeance route can only end in tears. I have posted another thread that explains where people can take their complaints to authorities who are listening, and have the power to intervene if the right conditions are met. These would not be complaints about a lost video game, however, they would be about money taken via misleading marketting (i.e. fraud allegations).
Actually you CAN argue that; such changes are only allowed, in that the EULA agreement is a non-negotiated contract between partis, only to what would be a reasonable person standard. If the actions of SOE went beyond a reasonable person's standard, then they went beyond what is legal.
That would be up to the authorities and the courts to decide over time; this is a VERY new area of law. We shall see. Regulation is often the result of abuse such as we have seen here.
Fair enough, please if your information is correct try to take this up with the authorities( no sarcasm). There's no need to post on the forums, if what you say is true.
Sorry, I choose to exercise my freedom and post. If you don't like that, or can't handle it perhaps the internet is not for you (no sarcasm either).
I agreed with your post. Were you angry, because I finally agreed with you? What the hell?
I apologize for not posting this earlier, it makes a huge point. You must love these long debates. In fact you love them so much you act like people aren't agreeing with you, thus you make the entire debate pointless.
read very carefully what happened there. In that instance, you were agreeing with me-- sort of, but then told me I had no reason to post any further. Saying so ignored everything i have said as to WHY I post, and was just a childish way of saying "shut up."
I have explained numerous times that I do not post to CHANGE anything, to hurt SOE, to get revenge for anything -- I post because I am enjoying the conversation.
I then, appropriately countered with the fact that I choose to exercise my freedom and post. I then returned your own style in saying that if YOU don't like it, YOU can stop posting.
Again, I was merely responding to you, in exactly the manner in which you replied to me (Just as I did with Moaky).
I know that annoys some people, obviously Moaky most of all, but you and he will get as you give from me. Actually, I'll be kinder than both of you, because i'll never flame you or anyone else.
fishermage.blogspot.com
lol man I've been gone one day and you've already found another person to debate with.
This thread has turned into a war of words between Fishermage and every other person who dosen't agree with him. Even though I enjoy reading Fisher's arguments. Mostly do to the fact that I can finally understand them lol. We must get back on topic.
Agreed, but I NEVER, meaning ever ever ever (not once in years of posting on forums), START these things. Moaky, on the other hand, relishes starting these things. Notice HE interjected the off topic suggestion of getting involved in some political crusade in the middle of this thread. That is where the off topic behavior began.
I merely ANSWER other people's disagreements, and then answer their willful, misreadings of what I say, and then answer the willful misreadings that follow. Granted, I probably shouldn't feed the trolls, and maybe someday I'll learn to remain silent when people say ridiculous things.
I never said that you do start these things.But it is a fact that you never end them. I understand what your doing, but YOU should end the debate, unless you want it to last forever.
From experience I know that debates with you can last for days, and they certainly do get irritating. And when things get irritating people tend to become more hostile towards you. Mostly due to the fact that they finally want to end the discussion. Fisher your the kind of person that can argue passionately about almost anything. That isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it often leads to pointless debates.
I'll post something I wrote earlier on this thread to you. That post really made me wonder why you were arguing with me. Do you want people to agree with you? Do you want endless debates? I believe the post I will quote will answer those questions.
In fact I DO end them, then people willfully misread what i write and start the whole thing all over again. I don't really enjoy debating; at least not the lowq quality of debate we have on these forums; I much prefer to DISCUSS things.
Fisher I'd suggest that you read the post I've just quoted. You have no arguments, and the post I quoted that you made, proves that. You love debates and love to keep them going.
what are you talking about? The post you quoted proves NOTHING of the sort. maybe if you try and explain HOW it does so, I'll have an idea of what you are talking about.
fishermage.blogspot.com
Has it ever occured to anyone that most of the post made aren't actually read before they are replied to as people just tend to like to argue for the sake of aruing and that eventually people end up arguing about something totally different then what they were originaly arguing with because they just done plain forgot?
However, the sheer venom, the completely outrageous statements people make (I believe my favorite was the one that said John Smedley should be jailed), the absolute HATE (yes, HATE) for current SWG players ... all that three years after the fact, is, to be frank, rather pathetic.
I've seen people get over very painful divorces in less time than it has taken some of the people on this board to get over pre-CU.
Ding Ding Ding...winner
Well tbh I know one guy who thinks Smed should be jailed, but that thinking isn't motivated by hate. He really just thinks the guy committed fraud on a fairly massive scale, and should be held accountable for that.
Also, saying that this is all about something that happened 3 years ago is misleading. If you look at a number of threads on these boards, you'll notice that people highlight what appears to be a longstanding pattern of poor customer relations.
Further, I don't know that people feel hatred for current SWG players. I know I certainly don't, as some of them are my friends. I do know, however, that it is very divisive when you take something from one group, redesign it and give it to another. I'm aware that players didn't do this. Rather this whole target audience conflict was sparked by the actions SOE and LEC.
Possible solutions to mend this rift have been put forward to SOE and LEC, but they have not been implemented, sadly.
Very well said. But the reason I said it was something that happened three years ago, is because it is a game. Games are games, they shouldn't be taking so seriously. The argument against the NGE is really getting out of hand. Just like how there were some real life murders by players in Lineage 2 clans. You may think these threats against SOE employers are all jokes. But you will be surprised how crazy some people let themselves become over a game(ex. The Lineage 2 incidents). You should be angry about the NGE, I'm not telling you not to be, but don't let it make you a mindless person that just wants to destroy SOE and SWG. Control your anger, and be open to other viewpoints. And don't have blind devotion to something.
Thankfully the poster above stated his opinion clearly and well. The only thing I'd have to disagree on is the highlights on poor customer relations by SOE. If you hate SOE don't buy anything from them, that's how you can stop them. You don't have to try to destroy them, they are destroying themselves. Don't talk to them, and watch them fall.
I think there's something to the idea, "don't talk to them, and watch them fall." Talking to them really just adds to the frustration in my experience. I tried open and respectful communication for months, and it got me nowhere. Well it got my posts moved, deleted, locked etc.
Also, if people are really convinced that an injustice took place, certainly taking the personal vengeance route can only end in tears. I have posted another thread that explains where people can take their complaints to authorities who are listening, and have the power to intervene if the right conditions are met. These would not be complaints about a lost video game, however, they would be about money taken via misleading marketting (i.e. fraud allegations).
Actually you CAN argue that; such changes are only allowed, in that the EULA agreement is a non-negotiated contract between partis, only to what would be a reasonable person standard. If the actions of SOE went beyond a reasonable person's standard, then they went beyond what is legal.
That would be up to the authorities and the courts to decide over time; this is a VERY new area of law. We shall see. Regulation is often the result of abuse such as we have seen here.
Fair enough, please if your information is correct try to take this up with the authorities( no sarcasm). There's no need to post on the forums, if what you say is true.
Sorry, I choose to exercise my freedom and post. If you don't like that, or can't handle it perhaps the internet is not for you (no sarcasm either).
I agreed with your post. Were you angry, because I finally agreed with you? What the hell?
I apologize for not posting this earlier, it makes a huge point. You must love these long debates. In fact you love them so much you act like people aren't agreeing with you, thus you make the entire debate pointless.
read very carefully what happened there. In that instance, you were agreeing with me-- sort of, but then told me I had no reason to post any further. Saying so ignored everything i have said as to WHY I post, and was just a childish way of saying "shut up."
I have explained numerous times that I do not post to CHANGE anything, to hurt SOE, to get revenge for anything -- I post because I am enjoying the conversation.
I then, appropriately countered with the fact that I choose to exercise my freedom and post. I then returned your own style in saying that if YOU don't like it, YOU can stop posting.
Again, I was merely responding to you, in exactly the manner in which you replied to me (Just as I did with Moaky).
I know that annoys some people, obviously Moaky most of all, but you and he will get as you give from me. Actually, I'll be kinder than both of you, because i'll never flame you or anyone else.
Actually I believe that you should stop making assumptions. My tone was different then the tone you make it sound like I was speaking in. I sure as hell wasn't trying to stop you from expressing your opinion. That's the problem with the internet.
Anyways it does prove my point my friend. Read all the posts i quoted and understand them. All of my valid points are included. Keep on saying that what they say proves nothing. Because anyone else reading those posts would automatically say the opposite.
My argument is solid, and clear. You cannot counter it, because it is your own words. Fisher my friend its over. Your "your point proves nothing" posts will help you no longer.
Since you do not understand what my argument is I will explain it to you clearly. With no beating around the bush.
Look at the post man,above you said that SOE may have commited a crime, but we shall see. I told you to take it up to the authorities if your information is correct. I wanted you to stop posting, because actions say more than words.
Even you cannot disagree that what I have said is clear and concrete. I have made a point, that even you Fisher cannot counter. You know why Fisher?It's because the evidence that supports my argument that you don't like it when people agree with you, is supported by your own words.You cannot deny that you said something, because I have quoted it up there for you. If you think I changed what you wrote go back through those posts you made and read them a million times if you wish.
You can't say that civilization don't advance, however, for in every war they kill you in a new way.
-Will Rogers
which is why I always quote, never pull anything out of context, and always try my best to answer what is written. If I choose to NOT answer every piece of what someone says, chances are either I don't disagree with that part, or I don't feel it's important enough to comment on. It doesn't help.
The problem here is that many people have an agenda, and try and stcik what people say INTO that agenda. Even *I* have an agenda -- I want what is best for SWG past present, and future. That agenda gets me flames ffrom all sides of the issue -- both sides view me as a different type of traitor -- which lets me know I am probably being pretty objective.
I'm a Star Wars fan and want there to be a great Star Wars MMORPG -- the dream of a great Star Wars MMORPG is something I've wanted all my life -- and never really had.
Pre-CU SWG was the closest thing to that -- and that was destroyed by some very small men. Since then I have done my best to improve the current game regardless of the ethical failings of the makers of that game, by suggesting ways to go forward.
Unfortunately the way they have moved "forward" from the NGE has been mixed at best. Some good things have been added, yet, at the same time, they still show in some ways they have learned nothing from the NGE, and still show they are not honerable men that we can trust as customers. That's a problem, if they ever want the game to thrive.
So, I happily enjoy my old "middle pillar" position, and chuckle sadly at the flames from both sides. It's all good -- in time, it all comes out in the wash.
As long as I am enjoying the conversation, I'll be here and on the O-Boards.
fishermage.blogspot.com
However, the sheer venom, the completely outrageous statements people make (I believe my favorite was the one that said John Smedley should be jailed), the absolute HATE (yes, HATE) for current SWG players ... all that three years after the fact, is, to be frank, rather pathetic.
I've seen people get over very painful divorces in less time than it has taken some of the people on this board to get over pre-CU.
Ding Ding Ding...winner
Well tbh I know one guy who thinks Smed should be jailed, but that thinking isn't motivated by hate. He really just thinks the guy committed fraud on a fairly massive scale, and should be held accountable for that.
Also, saying that this is all about something that happened 3 years ago is misleading. If you look at a number of threads on these boards, you'll notice that people highlight what appears to be a longstanding pattern of poor customer relations.
Further, I don't know that people feel hatred for current SWG players. I know I certainly don't, as some of them are my friends. I do know, however, that it is very divisive when you take something from one group, redesign it and give it to another. I'm aware that players didn't do this. Rather this whole target audience conflict was sparked by the actions SOE and LEC.
Possible solutions to mend this rift have been put forward to SOE and LEC, but they have not been implemented, sadly.
Very well said. But the reason I said it was something that happened three years ago, is because it is a game. Games are games, they shouldn't be taking so seriously. The argument against the NGE is really getting out of hand. Just like how there were some real life murders by players in Lineage 2 clans. You may think these threats against SOE employers are all jokes. But you will be surprised how crazy some people let themselves become over a game(ex. The Lineage 2 incidents). You should be angry about the NGE, I'm not telling you not to be, but don't let it make you a mindless person that just wants to destroy SOE and SWG. Control your anger, and be open to other viewpoints. And don't have blind devotion to something.
Thankfully the poster above stated his opinion clearly and well. The only thing I'd have to disagree on is the highlights on poor customer relations by SOE. If you hate SOE don't buy anything from them, that's how you can stop them. You don't have to try to destroy them, they are destroying themselves. Don't talk to them, and watch them fall.
I think there's something to the idea, "don't talk to them, and watch them fall." Talking to them really just adds to the frustration in my experience. I tried open and respectful communication for months, and it got me nowhere. Well it got my posts moved, deleted, locked etc.
Also, if people are really convinced that an injustice took place, certainly taking the personal vengeance route can only end in tears. I have posted another thread that explains where people can take their complaints to authorities who are listening, and have the power to intervene if the right conditions are met. These would not be complaints about a lost video game, however, they would be about money taken via misleading marketting (i.e. fraud allegations).
Actually you CAN argue that; such changes are only allowed, in that the EULA agreement is a non-negotiated contract between partis, only to what would be a reasonable person standard. If the actions of SOE went beyond a reasonable person's standard, then they went beyond what is legal.
That would be up to the authorities and the courts to decide over time; this is a VERY new area of law. We shall see. Regulation is often the result of abuse such as we have seen here.
Fair enough, please if your information is correct try to take this up with the authorities( no sarcasm). There's no need to post on the forums, if what you say is true.
Sorry, I choose to exercise my freedom and post. If you don't like that, or can't handle it perhaps the internet is not for you (no sarcasm either).
I agreed with your post. Were you angry, because I finally agreed with you? What the hell?
I apologize for not posting this earlier, it makes a huge point. You must love these long debates. In fact you love them so much you act like people aren't agreeing with you, thus you make the entire debate pointless.
read very carefully what happened there. In that instance, you were agreeing with me-- sort of, but then told me I had no reason to post any further. Saying so ignored everything i have said as to WHY I post, and was just a childish way of saying "shut up."
I have explained numerous times that I do not post to CHANGE anything, to hurt SOE, to get revenge for anything -- I post because I am enjoying the conversation.
I then, appropriately countered with the fact that I choose to exercise my freedom and post. I then returned your own style in saying that if YOU don't like it, YOU can stop posting.
Again, I was merely responding to you, in exactly the manner in which you replied to me (Just as I did with Moaky).
I know that annoys some people, obviously Moaky most of all, but you and he will get as you give from me. Actually, I'll be kinder than both of you, because i'll never flame you or anyone else.
Actually I believe that you should stop making assumptions. My tone was different then the tone you make it sound like I was speaking in. I sure as hell wasn't trying to stop you from expressing your opinion. That's the problem with the internet.
Anyways it does prove my point my friend. Read all the posts i quoted and understand them. All of my valid points are included. Keep on saying that what they say proves nothing. Because anyone else reading those posts would automatically say the opposite.
My argument is solid, and clear. You cannot counter it, because it is your own words. Fisher my friend its over. Your "your point proves nothing" posts will help you no longer.
Since you do not understand what my argument is I will explain it to you clearly. With no beating around the bush.
Look at the post man,above you said that SOE may have commited a crime, but we shall see. I told you to take it up to the authorities if your information is correct. I wanted you to stop posting, because actions say more than words.
Even you cannot disagree that what I have said is clear and concrete. I have made a point, that even you Fisher cannot counter. You know why Fisher?It's because the evidence that supports my argument that you don't like it when people agree with you, is supported by your own words.You cannot deny that you said something, because I have quoted it up there for you. If you think I changed what you wrote go back through those posts you made and read them a million times if you wish.
Did you read what i wrote?
I do not post to FIGHT for anything; I post because I enjoy the conversation. I have said so several times in this thread, and many times in many other threads.
Admitting and discussing that what they did may be criminal is no reason to stop posting about this game.
Again I ask, what are you talking about? You have shown nothing.
fishermage.blogspot.com
which is why I always quote, never pull anything out of context, and always try my best to answer what is written. If I choose to NOT answer every piece of what someone says, chances are either I don't disagree with that part, or I don't feel it's important enough to comment on. It doesn't help.
The problem here is that many people have an agenda, and try and stcik what people say INTO that agenda. Even *I* have an agenda -- I want what is best for SWG past present, and future. That agenda gets me flames ffrom all sides of the issue -- both sides view me as a different type of traitor -- which lets me know I am probably being pretty objective.
I'm a Star Wars fan and want there to be a great Star Wars MMORPG -- the dream of a great Star Wars MMORPG is something I've wanted all my life -- and never really had.
Pre-CU SWG was the closest thing to that -- and that was destroyed by some very small men. Since then I have done my best to improve the current game regardless of the ethical failings of the makers of that game, by suggesting ways to go forward.
Unfortunately the way they have moved "forward" from the NGE has been mixed at best. Some good things have been added, yet, at the same time, they still show in some ways they have learned nothing from the NGE, and still show they are not honerable men that we can trust as customers. That's a problem, if they ever want the game to thrive.
So, I happily enjoy my old "middle pillar" position, and chuckle sadly at the flames from both sides. It's all good -- in time, it all comes out in the wash.
As long as I am enjoying the conversation, I'll be here and on the O-Boards.
It's funny how you write stuff like this that makes me respect you and forget my argument, when I finally have an argument that can take you down lol
You can't say that civilization don't advance, however, for in every war they kill you in a new way.
-Will Rogers
That's not what he's saying at all.However, the sheer venom, the completely outrageous statements people make (I believe my favorite was the one that said John Smedley should be jailed), the absolute HATE (yes, HATE) for current SWG players ... all that three years after the fact, is, to be frank, rather pathetic.
I've seen people get over very painful divorces in less time than it has taken some of the people on this board to get over pre-CU.
Ding Ding Ding...winner
Well tbh I know one guy who thinks Smed should be jailed, but that thinking isn't motivated by hate. He really just thinks the guy committed fraud on a fairly massive scale, and should be held accountable for that.
Also, saying that this is all about something that happened 3 years ago is misleading. If you look at a number of threads on these boards, you'll notice that people highlight what appears to be a longstanding pattern of poor customer relations.
Further, I don't know that people feel hatred for current SWG players. I know I certainly don't, as some of them are my friends. I do know, however, that it is very divisive when you take something from one group, redesign it and give it to another. I'm aware that players didn't do this. Rather this whole target audience conflict was sparked by the actions SOE and LEC.
Possible solutions to mend this rift have been put forward to SOE and LEC, but they have not been implemented, sadly.
Very well said. But the reason I said it was something that happened three years ago, is because it is a game. Games are games, they shouldn't be taking so seriously. The argument against the NGE is really getting out of hand. Just like how there were some real life murders by players in Lineage 2 clans. You may think these threats against SOE employers are all jokes. But you will be surprised how crazy some people let themselves become over a game(ex. The Lineage 2 incidents). You should be angry about the NGE, I'm not telling you not to be, but don't let it make you a mindless person that just wants to destroy SOE and SWG. Control your anger, and be open to other viewpoints. And don't have blind devotion to something.
Thankfully the poster above stated his opinion clearly and well. The only thing I'd have to disagree on is the highlights on poor customer relations by SOE. If you hate SOE don't buy anything from them, that's how you can stop them. You don't have to try to destroy them, they are destroying themselves. Don't talk to them, and watch them fall.
I think there's something to the idea, "don't talk to them, and watch them fall." Talking to them really just adds to the frustration in my experience. I tried open and respectful communication for months, and it got me nowhere. Well it got my posts moved, deleted, locked etc.
Also, if people are really convinced that an injustice took place, certainly taking the personal vengeance route can only end in tears. I have posted another thread that explains where people can take their complaints to authorities who are listening, and have the power to intervene if the right conditions are met. These would not be complaints about a lost video game, however, they would be about money taken via misleading marketting (i.e. fraud allegations).
Actually you CAN argue that; such changes are only allowed, in that the EULA agreement is a non-negotiated contract between partis, only to what would be a reasonable person standard. If the actions of SOE went beyond a reasonable person's standard, then they went beyond what is legal.
That would be up to the authorities and the courts to decide over time; this is a VERY new area of law. We shall see. Regulation is often the result of abuse such as we have seen here.
Fair enough, please if your information is correct try to take this up with the authorities( no sarcasm). There's no need to post on the forums, if what you say is true.
Sorry, I choose to exercise my freedom and post. If you don't like that, or can't handle it perhaps the internet is not for you (no sarcasm either).
I agreed with your post. Were you angry, because I finally agreed with you? What the hell?
I apologize for not posting this earlier, it makes a huge point. You must love these long debates. In fact you love them so much you act like people aren't agreeing with you, thus you make the entire debate pointless.
read very carefully what happened there. In that instance, you were agreeing with me-- sort of, but then told me I had no reason to post any further. Saying so ignored everything i have said as to WHY I post, and was just a childish way of saying "shut up."
I have explained numerous times that I do not post to CHANGE anything, to hurt SOE, to get revenge for anything -- I post because I am enjoying the conversation.
I then, appropriately countered with the fact that I choose to exercise my freedom and post. I then returned your own style in saying that if YOU don't like it, YOU can stop posting.
Again, I was merely responding to you, in exactly the manner in which you replied to me (Just as I did with Moaky).
I know that annoys some people, obviously Moaky most of all, but you and he will get as you give from me. Actually, I'll be kinder than both of you, because i'll never flame you or anyone else.
Actually I believe that you should stop making assumptions. My tone was different then the tone you make it sound like I was speaking in. I sure as hell wasn't trying to stop you from expressing your opinion. That's the problem with the internet.
Anyways it does prove my point my friend. Read all the posts i quoted and understand them. All of my valid points are included. Keep on saying that what they say proves nothing. Because anyone else reading those posts would automatically say the opposite.
My argument is solid, and clear. You cannot counter it, because it is your own words. Fisher my friend its over. Your "your point proves nothing" posts will help you no longer.
Since you do not understand what my argument is I will explain it to you clearly. With no beating around the bush.
Look at the post man,above you said that SOE may have commited a crime, but we shall see. I told you to take it up to the authorities if your information is correct. I wanted you to stop posting, because actions say more than words.
Even you cannot disagree that what I have said is clear and concrete. I have made a point, that even you Fisher cannot counter. You know why Fisher?It's because the evidence that supports my argument that you don't like it when people agree with you, is supported by your own words.You cannot deny that you said something, because I have quoted it up there for you. If you think I changed what you wrote go back through those posts you made and read them a million times if you wish.
Did you read what i wrote?
I do not post to FIGHT for anything; I post because I enjoy the conversation. I have said so several times in this thread, and many times in many other threads.
Admitting and discussing that what they did may be criminal is no reason to stop posting about this game.
Again I ask, what are you talking about? You have shown nothing.
Fisher I said that I agreed with you and you thought that I didn't. That made me believe that you don't like it when people agree with you. It's that simple man I'm sorry that I made it lengthy.
You can't say that civilization don't advance, however, for in every war they kill you in a new way.
-Will Rogers
However, the sheer venom, the completely outrageous statements people make (I believe my favorite was the one that said John Smedley should be jailed), the absolute HATE (yes, HATE) for current SWG players ... all that three years after the fact, is, to be frank, rather pathetic.
I've seen people get over very painful divorces in less time than it has taken some of the people on this board to get over pre-CU.
Ding Ding Ding...winner
Well tbh I know one guy who thinks Smed should be jailed, but that thinking isn't motivated by hate. He really just thinks the guy committed fraud on a fairly massive scale, and should be held accountable for that.
Also, saying that this is all about something that happened 3 years ago is misleading. If you look at a number of threads on these boards, you'll notice that people highlight what appears to be a longstanding pattern of poor customer relations.
Further, I don't know that people feel hatred for current SWG players. I know I certainly don't, as some of them are my friends. I do know, however, that it is very divisive when you take something from one group, redesign it and give it to another. I'm aware that players didn't do this. Rather this whole target audience conflict was sparked by the actions SOE and LEC.
Possible solutions to mend this rift have been put forward to SOE and LEC, but they have not been implemented, sadly.
Very well said. But the reason I said it was something that happened three years ago, is because it is a game. Games are games, they shouldn't be taking so seriously. The argument against the NGE is really getting out of hand. Just like how there were some real life murders by players in Lineage 2 clans. You may think these threats against SOE employers are all jokes. But you will be surprised how crazy some people let themselves become over a game(ex. The Lineage 2 incidents). You should be angry about the NGE, I'm not telling you not to be, but don't let it make you a mindless person that just wants to destroy SOE and SWG. Control your anger, and be open to other viewpoints. And don't have blind devotion to something.
Thankfully the poster above stated his opinion clearly and well. The only thing I'd have to disagree on is the highlights on poor customer relations by SOE. If you hate SOE don't buy anything from them, that's how you can stop them. You don't have to try to destroy them, they are destroying themselves. Don't talk to them, and watch them fall.
I think there's something to the idea, "don't talk to them, and watch them fall." Talking to them really just adds to the frustration in my experience. I tried open and respectful communication for months, and it got me nowhere. Well it got my posts moved, deleted, locked etc.
Also, if people are really convinced that an injustice took place, certainly taking the personal vengeance route can only end in tears. I have posted another thread that explains where people can take their complaints to authorities who are listening, and have the power to intervene if the right conditions are met. These would not be complaints about a lost video game, however, they would be about money taken via misleading marketting (i.e. fraud allegations).
SOE ruined a great game, but talking to them won't make them change their minds. I mean it's been three years, if they were going to change their minds, they would of done it a few years back when SWG subscriber numbers were starting to diminish. The problem with taking to this to authorities is that mmorpgs are dynamic. They are supposed to always change and be a living world. So you can't you really say that SOE made too many changes, so we deserve our money back.
Actually you CAN argue that; such changes are only allowed, in that the EULA agreement is a non-negotiated contract between partis, only to what would be a reasonable person standard. If the actions of SOE went beyond a reasonable person's standard, then they went beyond what is legal.
That would be up to the authorities and the courts to decide over time; this is a VERY new area of law. We shall see. Regulation is often the result of abuse such as we have seen here.
Fair enough, please if your information is correct try to take this up with the authorities( no sarcasm). There's no need to post on the forums, if what you say is true.
Sorry, I choose to exercise my freedom and post. If you don't like that, or can't handle it perhaps the internet is not for you (no sarcasm either).
I agreed with your post. Were you angry, because I finally agreed with you? What the hell?
I apologize for not posting this earlier, it makes a huge point. You must love these long debates. In fact you love them so much you act like people aren't agreeing with you, thus you make the entire debate pointless.
read very carefully what happened there. In that instance, you were agreeing with me-- sort of, but then told me I had no reason to post any further. Saying so ignored everything i have said as to WHY I post, and was just a childish way of saying "shut up."
I have explained numerous times that I do not post to CHANGE anything, to hurt SOE, to get revenge for anything -- I post because I am enjoying the conversation.
I then, appropriately countered with the fact that I choose to exercise my freedom and post. I then returned your own style in saying that if YOU don't like it, YOU can stop posting.
Again, I was merely responding to you, in exactly the manner in which you replied to me (Just as I did with Moaky).
I know that annoys some people, obviously Moaky most of all, but you and he will get as you give from me. Actually, I'll be kinder than both of you, because i'll never flame you or anyone else.
Actually I believe that you should stop making assumptions. My tone was different then the tone you make it sound like I was speaking in. I sure as hell wasn't trying to stop you from expressing your opinion. That's the problem with the internet.
Anyways it does prove my point my friend. Read all the posts i quoted and understand them. All of my valid points are included. Keep on saying that what they say proves nothing. Because anyone else reading those posts would automatically say the opposite.
My argument is solid, and clear. You cannot counter it, because it is your own words. Fisher my friend its over. Your "your point proves nothing" posts will help you no longer.
Since you do not understand what my argument is I will explain it to you clearly. With no beating around the bush.
Look at the post man,above you said that SOE may have commited a crime, but we shall see. I told you to take it up to the authorities if your information is correct. I wanted you to stop posting, because actions say more than words.
Even you cannot disagree that what I have said is clear and concrete. I have made a point, that even you Fisher cannot counter. You know why Fisher?It's because the evidence that supports my argument that you don't like it when people agree with you, is supported by your own words.You cannot deny that you said something, because I have quoted it up there for you. If you think I changed what you wrote go back through those posts you made and read them a million times if you wish.
Did you read what i wrote?
I do not post to FIGHT for anything; I post because I enjoy the conversation. I have said so several times in this thread, and many times in many other threads.
Admitting and discussing that what they did may be criminal is no reason to stop posting about this game.
Again I ask, what are you talking about? You have shown nothing.
Fisher I said that I agreed with you and you thought that I didn't. That made me believe that you don't like it when people agree with you. It's that simple man I'm sorry that I made it lengthy.
yeah, you agreed with me, when I said that what they did might be criminal (fraud) or might be worthy of litigation (violation of contract). THEN you said that I should stop posting. THAT was the part of what you said that I take issue with, and I still do.
The fact that SOE may be criminally or civily liable for what they have done has nothing to do with why I post.
fishermage.blogspot.com
I must apologize, because I worded that post very poorly. I meant that you should take action. I should of never told you to stop posting. You've made your point, and I agree with it.
You can't say that civilization don't advance, however, for in every war they kill you in a new way.
-Will Rogers