I believe the Jestor will have the last laugh in the end, and you gotta love the people who try VERY hard to discredit him with as much passion as they berate him for having against $OE. So who really has the agenda here, "Those who live in glass houses"........ (you know the rest). LOVE THAT JESTOR!!
Well, as it stands, Jestor and his sycophants having the "last laugh" is inevitable to a degree. Nothing lasts forever, and when SWG eventually does shut down (whether it be next week, next month, next year or next decade, my bets are shortly after KOTOR online comes out of beta), you'll crow that it was all your doing.
Of course it will be our doing. We vets have made sure that SOE didn't just get away with screwing over their entire SWG playerbase and we've turned them into an example that other companies have learned from. I doubt you'll ever see another developer make fundamental changes to a live game again.
Now your blind loyalty to SOE probably won't let you see things this way but it is the truth.
not only that but we vets have also shown that the only good game is a pre-cu sandbox game. not this level stuff that everyone pushes out and claims is fun.
kotor online will be a pre-cu game.
and those at $OE will have to look for new work i'd try taco bell if i was them.
Hey, the second KOTOR beta is announced, I'll be in line to apply for it. I can't wait ... Bioware MMO with a Star Wars theme? Sign me up!
But if you think KOTOR will be a sandbox game ... boy I'd hate to be you when it comes out. I loved pre-CU, I really did. But the fact that no sandbox game has come out since pre-CU and CU died indicates to me that the industry is not willing to go that route. They want linear, they want easy, they want mass appeal; not complicated stuff.
The reason I still play SWG, outside of my blind devotion to SOE (as some of your more ardent members would figure :P), is that I, personally, have not found something else I'd rather play.
I sincerely hope that Bioware, given its reputation for making the best single-player RPGs on the market, can bring back that sandbox feel, and that LA has learned the error of its ways in pushing SOE to change the game we loved. But I'm not counting my chickens until the beta is hatched.
So I started to walk into the water. I won't lie to you boys...I was terrified. But I pressed on, and as I made my way past the breakers, a strange calm came over me. I don't know if it was divine intervention or the kinship of all living things, but I tell you, Jerry, at that moment ... I was a marine biologist.
Please stop saying Lucas Arts pushed SOE to change the game. The ONLY evidence that LA did anything was they mandated SOE make the game more popular.
Every single other first hand account that has been printed shows that SOE dreamed up the changes and had to push them onto their superiors for approval.
Lets not blame Lucas Arts for being upset at SOE for several years of creating and managing an unfinished product with one of the worlds largest intelectual properties.
On the topic of SWG shutting down, it is absolutely the cause of how SOE chose to treat the customers and our reactions to that treatment. It doesn't matter that SWG has managed to limp along for a few years and turned 5 years old. No reasonable company would be happy with the condition and "profitability" the game is in. The game is effectively dead as far as a sellable product is and has been that way for almost 3 years.
Saying SWG isn't dead as a result of the exodus of people is being naive and dishonest to yourself.
As for the industry "wanting" linear level based games over sandbox, that is because almost every sandbox game has failed miserably. Why would anyone in their right mind want to make a style of game that has a large track record of failure? If you were investing money what would you invest in? Sandbox or an EQ style game? Think about that and then think WHY it is that way. Then you can thank SOE for helping put the nail in that coffin, especially Smed when he said Sandbox games are not viable.
I sincerely hope that Bioware, given its reputation for making the best single-player RPGs on the market, can bring back that sandbox feel, and that LA has learned the error of its ways in pushing SOE to change the game we loved. But I'm not counting my chickens until the beta is hatched.
LA didn't push SOE to create the NGE. LA probably told SOE to do something to increase subscription numbers and then SOE came up with the NGE and sold it to LA as the solution. SOE is responsible for screwing over their customers.
What LucasArts never understood is that the game would never be really succesful with SOE running things. Sure 250k players was great pre-WoW but SOE's ineptitude kept the game from really being huge when it could have been. Koster created an amazing virtual Star Wars world and SOE screwed it up piece by piece from day one until they finally trashed the whole game with the CU and the NGE.
I believe the Jestor will have the last laugh in the end, and you gotta love the people who try VERY hard to discredit him with as much passion as they berate him for having against $OE. So who really has the agenda here, "Those who live in glass houses"........ (you know the rest). LOVE THAT JESTOR!!
Well, as it stands, Jestor and his sycophants having the "last laugh" is inevitable to a degree. Nothing lasts forever, and when SWG eventually does shut down (whether it be next week, next month, next year or next decade, my bets are shortly after KOTOR online comes out of beta), you'll crow that it was all your doing.
Of course it will be our doing. We vets have made sure that SOE didn't just get away with screwing over their entire SWG playerbase and we've turned them into an example that other companies have learned from. I doubt you'll ever see another developer make fundamental changes to a live game again.
Now your blind loyalty to SOE probably won't let you see things this way but it is the truth.
The SWG vets have the biggest egos I have ever seen in the gaming industry. Not only did you accomplish nothing, but you are willing to make a complete ass out of yourselves over a game that was crap from the start.
Get over yourself. . .SOE doesn't care about you nor do any of the other people that are still playing SWG. As for your boast that no other companies will make fundamental changes again, think before your speak. It will be done again. Maybe not soon but mark my words it will be done again.
It's a Jeep thing. . . _______ |___| \_______/ = |||||| = |X| \*........*/ |X| |X|_________|X| You wouldn't understand
I sincerely hope that Bioware, given its reputation for making the best single-player RPGs on the market, can bring back that sandbox feel, and that LA has learned the error of its ways in pushing SOE to change the game we loved. But I'm not counting my chickens until the beta is hatched.
LA didn't push SOE to create the NGE. LA probably told SOE to do something to increase subscription numbers and then SOE came up with the NGE and sold it to LA as the solution. SOE is responsible for screwing over their customers.
What LucasArts never understood is that the game would never be really succesful with SOE running things. Sure 250k players was great pre-WoW but SOE's ineptitude kept the game from really being huge when it could have been. Koster created an amazing virtual Star Wars world and SOE screwed it up piece by piece from day one until they finally trashed the whole game with the CU and the NGE.
I know LA didn't push for the NGE specifically, but they did basically throw down the gauntlet and say "do whatever you have to do to make this game sell eleventy billion subscriptions." To absolve them of any blame is foolhardy.
So I started to walk into the water. I won't lie to you boys...I was terrified. But I pressed on, and as I made my way past the breakers, a strange calm came over me. I don't know if it was divine intervention or the kinship of all living things, but I tell you, Jerry, at that moment ... I was a marine biologist.
I believe the Jestor will have the last laugh in the end, and you gotta love the people who try VERY hard to discredit him with as much passion as they berate him for having against $OE. So who really has the agenda here, "Those who live in glass houses"........ (you know the rest). LOVE THAT JESTOR!!
Well, as it stands, Jestor and his sycophants having the "last laugh" is inevitable to a degree. Nothing lasts forever, and when SWG eventually does shut down (whether it be next week, next month, next year or next decade, my bets are shortly after KOTOR online comes out of beta), you'll crow that it was all your doing.
Of course it will be our doing. We vets have made sure that SOE didn't just get away with screwing over their entire SWG playerbase and we've turned them into an example that other companies have learned from. I doubt you'll ever see another developer make fundamental changes to a live game again.
Now your blind loyalty to SOE probably won't let you see things this way but it is the truth.
not only that but we vets have also shown that the only good game is a pre-cu sandbox game. not this level stuff that everyone pushes out and claims is fun.
kotor online will be a pre-cu game.
and those at $OE will have to look for new work i'd try taco bell if i was them.
If you've played any Bioware game you will know that they are all extremely linear. Theres no reason to think an mmo developed by them would be any different.
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
I believe the Jestor will have the last laugh in the end, and you gotta love the people who try VERY hard to discredit him with as much passion as they berate him for having against $OE. So who really has the agenda here, "Those who live in glass houses"........ (you know the rest). LOVE THAT JESTOR!!
Well, as it stands, Jestor and his sycophants having the "last laugh" is inevitable to a degree. Nothing lasts forever, and when SWG eventually does shut down (whether it be next week, next month, next year or next decade, my bets are shortly after KOTOR online comes out of beta), you'll crow that it was all your doing.
Of course it will be our doing. We vets have made sure that SOE didn't just get away with screwing over their entire SWG playerbase and we've turned them into an example that other companies have learned from. I doubt you'll ever see another developer make fundamental changes to a live game again.
Now your blind loyalty to SOE probably won't let you see things this way but it is the truth.
The SWG vets have the biggest egos I have ever seen in the gaming industry. Not only did you accomplish nothing, but you are willing to make a complete ass out of yourselves over a game that was crap from the start.
Get over yourself. . .SOE doesn't care about you nor do any of the other people that are still playing SWG. As for your boast that no other companies will make fundamental changes again, think before your speak. It will be done again. Maybe not soon but mark my words it will be done again.
Thanks in part to the reaction and advocacy of SWG players, thousands of people obtained full refunds on the Trials of Obi-Wan expansion. That's very significant, and I thank everyone who took a stand on that issue. Others copied their state attorney general and obtained full subscription refunds I'm told. Many people have heard about player reactions in forums and on the news, and as a result, people think twice before signing up to pay SOE money. Some have alerted the FTC to the questionable business practices connected with this game, and they are being tracked and recorded in a database. SOE and LEC are both undergoing massive restructuring. The facts speak for themselves. People have spoken out, and it has in fact made a number of significant differences. I've been glad to see it. You can deny it if you like. Living in denial is of course your perogative.
Personally I don't attach self-worth to the success or failure of advocacy efforts. I do notice results though, and feel good when they are positive. It's a good thing to be able to have even a small part in a positive change. Nice job SWG vets
Originally posted by kobie173 Originally posted by vet-in-exile Originally posted by kobie173 I sincerely hope that Bioware, given its reputation for making the best single-player RPGs on the market, can bring back that sandbox feel, and that LA has learned the error of its ways in pushing SOE to change the game we loved. But I'm not counting my chickens until the beta is hatched.
LA didn't push SOE to create the NGE. LA probably told SOE to do something to increase subscription numbers and then SOE came up with the NGE and sold it to LA as the solution. SOE is responsible for screwing over their customers. What LucasArts never understood is that the game would never be really succesful with SOE running things. Sure 250k players was great pre-WoW but SOE's ineptitude kept the game from really being huge when it could have been. Koster created an amazing virtual Star Wars world and SOE screwed it up piece by piece from day one until they finally trashed the whole game with the CU and the NGE. I know LA didn't push for the NGE specifically, but they did basically throw down the gauntlet and say "do whatever you have to do to make this game sell eleventy billion subscriptions." To absolve them of any blame is foolhardy. Yup, they are to blame all right -- they are to be blamed for trusting SOE. Big mistake there.
It was SOE who failed the game in the beginning; which is why the game underformed. The game was released late, and it still wasn't ready, due to SOE's mismanagement of developer assets.
They spent years not fixng what was wrong, and subs never got high enough to match SOE's original projections (over a million was the projections, the best they ever got was 350, which gradually fell to 250 or so). This was completely due to SOE's mismanagement of the game and not fixing longstanding problems.
Then, when LA called them on it, Smedley had to cover it up. He did so first by blaming the original design (when the problem was his mismanagement), so they simplified the design (CU). That failed, so LA called them on that failure, and they then blamed WoW (to continue the coverup mismanagment). LA said okay, fix it then. SOE then made a cheap shabby copy of WoW.
That failed as well. LA was at fault for trusting SOE and counting on them to know what they were doing, and operating in good faith. That was a big mistake.
I hope they have learned their lesson. It seems that bioware is a more honerable operation, so if they have chosen them, it looks as if they have chosen well.
Other companies will always make fundamental changes to their product, the NGE wasn't a fundamental change.
How is it not a fundamental change? They took an open-ended sandbox type game and made it into a level based linear grind (I'm combinging the CU and NGE). If you just take the NGE into consideration they took 30+ professions and mashed them into 9, they destroyed the non-combat professions and completely recreated the combat system. How is that not fundamental change?
Get over yourself. . .SOE doesn't care about you nor do any of the other people that are still playing SWG. As for your boast that no other companies will make fundamental changes again, think before your speak. It will be done again. Maybe not soon but mark my words it will be done again.
Only time will tell but it should be obvious, even to a SOE apologists, that the NGE was a huge mistake that lost them the majority of their playerbase. You can troll all you want and call us names but we were right to fight them on it and we *have* won. Sorry you're jealous of our success.
I sincerely hope that Bioware, given its reputation for making the best single-player RPGs on the market, can bring back that sandbox feel, and that LA has learned the error of its ways in pushing SOE to change the game we loved. But I'm not counting my chickens until the beta is hatched.
LA didn't push SOE to create the NGE. LA probably told SOE to do something to increase subscription numbers and then SOE came up with the NGE and sold it to LA as the solution. SOE is responsible for screwing over their customers.
What LucasArts never understood is that the game would never be really succesful with SOE running things. Sure 250k players was great pre-WoW but SOE's ineptitude kept the game from really being huge when it could have been. Koster created an amazing virtual Star Wars world and SOE screwed it up piece by piece from day one until they finally trashed the whole game with the CU and the NGE.
I know LA didn't push for the NGE specifically, but they did basically throw down the gauntlet and say "do whatever you have to do to make this game sell eleventy billion subscriptions." To absolve them of any blame is foolhardy.
Once again you completely miss my point. I have never said LA didn't share some of the responsibility for the NGE and they certainly should have stepped in after it exploded and caused SWG to lose over 200k players but SOE absolutely deserves the lion's share of the blame in the whole mess. They could have been open and honest about the state of the game and they could have done more to fix the old game so the NGE wouldn't have been necessary in the first place. That's the real tragedy in the whole saga...if they had just fixed the problems with the pre-CU game I honestly believe that the subscriptions would have rebounded and players looking for a game with more substance than WoW would have flocked to it.
Originally posted by Locklain The SWG vets have the biggest egos I have ever seen in the gaming industry. Not only did you accomplish nothing, but you are willing to make a complete ass out of yourselves over a game that was crap from the start.
Get over yourself. . .SOE doesn't care about you nor do any of the other people that are still playing SWG. As for your boast that no other companies will make fundamental changes again, think before your speak. It will be done again. Maybe not soon but mark my words it will be done again.
Yes, SOE does not care about the former SWG players and the droves that left. That is why former players can't blink without getting a mailbox full of reactivation time begging to please come back, PLEASE! That is why the official forums have multiple posts about dead servers and ideas of how to get people to play the game. Anyone who posts a "I'm back" thread is welcomed with large amounts of cheering.
You are also correct that other companies will make blindsiding drastic changes that some executive in marketing reseach told them will be the path to riches and glory. Idiots are doomed to repeat the mistakes of the past. SOE did it just like Coca-cola did and I am sure there will be more to repeat those same mistakes. Barring SOE, I bet you don't see it from a profitable MMO with several hundred thousand players again. Care to wager?
What I meant by "not a fundamental change" is SoE introduced a completely different game than the one we purchased Pre-CU. Far from fundamental in my opinion.
Get over yourself. . .SOE doesn't care about you nor do any of the other people that are still playing SWG. As for your boast that no other companies will make fundamental changes again, think before your speak. It will be done again. Maybe not soon but mark my words it will be done again.
Only time will tell but it should be obvious, even to a SOE apologists, that the NGE was a huge mistake that lost them the majority of their playerbase. You can troll all you want and call us names but we were right to fight them on it and we *have* won. Sorry you're jealous of our success.
Yes, I am INCREDIBLY jealous that I have not wasted the two years of my life playing this game and three years bitching about it.
It's a Jeep thing. . . _______ |___| \_______/ = |||||| = |X| \*........*/ |X| |X|_________|X| You wouldn't understand
you know what? there shouldn't even be an E3. i feel you don't need it not only that E3 over hypes games that turn out to be bad.
E3 hyped age of conan and it's one of the worst mmos to date. E3 hyped other games and has now become a microsoft and nintendo lovefest. and microsoft is known for ripping people off and nintendo can only make systems where you play bowling with a remote.
you want to find out about a game? read the forums and see what other people have to say you'll see the truth.
and the truth is swg isn't there as it is a dead game. the player base is about 4k players and a joke of the mmo world. and $OE knows you show off good games at E3
not games that at one time where the greatest game ever made turned into a shell of it's former self.
you know what? there shouldn't even be an E3. i feel you don't need it not only that E3 over hypes games that turn out to be bad. E3 hyped age of conan and it's one of the worst mmos to date. E3 hyped other games and has now become a microsoft and nintendo lovefest. and microsoft is known for ripping people off and nintendo can only make systems where you play bowling with a remote. you want to find out about a game? read the forums and see what other people have to say you'll see the truth. and the truth is swg isn't there as it is a dead game. the player base is about 4k players and a joke of the mmo world. and $OE knows you show off good games at E3 not games that at one time where the greatest game ever made turned into a shell of it's former self.
Sweet, now we're down to 4K! Which one of you guys is going to say 3K next?
So I started to walk into the water. I won't lie to you boys...I was terrified. But I pressed on, and as I made my way past the breakers, a strange calm came over me. I don't know if it was divine intervention or the kinship of all living things, but I tell you, Jerry, at that moment ... I was a marine biologist.
you know what? there shouldn't even be an E3. i feel you don't need it not only that E3 over hypes games that turn out to be bad. E3 hyped age of conan and it's one of the worst mmos to date. E3 hyped other games and has now become a microsoft and nintendo lovefest. and microsoft is known for ripping people off and nintendo can only make systems where you play bowling with a remote. you want to find out about a game? read the forums and see what other people have to say you'll see the truth. and the truth is swg isn't there as it is a dead game. the player base is about 4k players and a joke of the mmo world. and $OE knows you show off good games at E3 not games that at one time where the greatest game ever made turned into a shell of it's former self.
Sweet, now we're down to 4K! Which one of you guys is going to say 3K next?
it seems E3 has gone all business. I mean business was always a large part of gaming and thats fine, of course. But, Gov. Rick Perry Texas (R) is the keynote speaker giving the opening address to set the theme for a gaming convention in LA? Does mr wal mart have some sort of experience in creating or publshing video games? I am surprised that more companies arent leaving the show and the ESA. I mean they really seem to have lost there perspective.
you know what? there shouldn't even be an E3. i feel you don't need it not only that E3 over hypes games that turn out to be bad. E3 hyped age of conan and it's one of the worst mmos to date. E3 hyped other games and has now become a microsoft and nintendo lovefest. and microsoft is known for ripping people off and nintendo can only make systems where you play bowling with a remote. you want to find out about a game? read the forums and see what other people have to say you'll see the truth. and the truth is swg isn't there as it is a dead game. the player base is about 4k players and a joke of the mmo world. and $OE knows you show off good games at E3 not games that at one time where the greatest game ever made turned into a shell of it's former self.
Sweet, now we're down to 4K! Which one of you guys is going to say 3K next?
Ever notice how the conversation is not about how many subs SWG has, but rather how few?
Right now, at 9:30PM eastern time July 1st there is 1 heavy server, 5 medium servers, 3 light servers and 16 very light servers.
Making a few educated assumptions you can figure out an approximation of how many people are on at this moment. If there are 6 levels to a server population (very light, light, medium, heavy, very heavy, extremely heavy, and finally full), and given a reasonable number for the maximum number of players on a full server it would make sense that the server takes that maximum number and divides it by 6 to determine it current status.
For example if a max server population is 2100 then you can assume that a very light server ranges from 0-350, light from 351-700, medium from 701 - 1050, heavey from 1051 - 1400, very heavy from 1401 - 1750, extremely heavy from 1751 - 2100.
With these assumptions you can then calculate that currently there is a maximum of 14,350 accounts logged in a this time.
Hardly an outstanding number for a Star Wars MMO, particularily with a 5 year anniversary event and a free veteran trial going on at the same time.
*edit*
Given the same numbers the minimum accounts logged in at this moment would be 5606.
you know what? there shouldn't even be an E3. i feel you don't need it not only that E3 over hypes games that turn out to be bad. E3 hyped age of conan and it's one of the worst mmos to date. E3 hyped other games and has now become a microsoft and nintendo lovefest. and microsoft is known for ripping people off and nintendo can only make systems where you play bowling with a remote. you want to find out about a game? read the forums and see what other people have to say you'll see the truth. and the truth is swg isn't there as it is a dead game. the player base is about 4k players and a joke of the mmo world. and $OE knows you show off good games at E3 not games that at one time where the greatest game ever made turned into a shell of it's former self.
Sweet, now we're down to 4K! Which one of you guys is going to say 3K next?
Ever notice how the conversation is not about how many subs SWG has, but rather how few?
Right now, at 9:30PM eastern time July 1st there is 1 heavy server, 5 medium servers, 3 light servers and 16 very light servers.
Making a few educated assumptions you can figure out an approximation of how many people are on at this moment. If there are 6 levels to a server population (very light, light, medium, heavy, very heavy, extremely heavy, and finally full), and given a reasonable number for the maximum number of players on a full server it would make sense that the server takes that maximum number and divides it by 6 to determine it current status.
For example if a max server population is 2100 then you can assume that a very light server ranges from 0-350, light from 351-700, medium from 701 - 1050, heavey from 1051 - 1400, very heavy from 1401 - 1750, extremely heavy from 1751 - 2100.
With these assumptions you can then calculate that currently there is a maximum of 14,350 accounts logged in a this time.
Hardly an outstanding number for a Star Wars MMO, particularily with a 5 year anniversary event and a free veteran trial going on at the same time.
and if you look around other $OE and funCON games are going the same way.
age of conan now has tons of servers that are light why is this? funCON lied to the player base and keeps lieing to the player base and most of all came out with a game in a state where it is far from done.
the only way $OE can ever change the dropping numbers is by rolling all of the servers back to the pre-cu system and giving us vets 6 free months if not more. also firing smed and having him arrested for his crimes would help too. along with firing anyone that had anything to do with the nge and rehiring koster and his team.
and bioware should learn from this too if kotor online isn't a pre-cu system then us vets will kill that game like we did to swg.
you know what? there shouldn't even be an E3. i feel you don't need it not only that E3 over hypes games that turn out to be bad. E3 hyped age of conan and it's one of the worst mmos to date. E3 hyped other games and has now become a microsoft and nintendo lovefest. and microsoft is known for ripping people off and nintendo can only make systems where you play bowling with a remote. you want to find out about a game? read the forums and see what other people have to say you'll see the truth. and the truth is swg isn't there as it is a dead game. the player base is about 4k players and a joke of the mmo world. and $OE knows you show off good games at E3 not games that at one time where the greatest game ever made turned into a shell of it's former self.
Sweet, now we're down to 4K! Which one of you guys is going to say 3K next?
Ever notice how the conversation is not about how many subs SWG has, but rather how few?
Right now, at 9:30PM eastern time July 1st there is 1 heavy server, 5 medium servers, 3 light servers and 16 very light servers.
Making a few educated assumptions you can figure out an approximation of how many people are on at this moment. If there are 6 levels to a server population (very light, light, medium, heavy, very heavy, extremely heavy, and finally full), and given a reasonable number for the maximum number of players on a full server it would make sense that the server takes that maximum number and divides it by 6 to determine it current status.
For example if a max server population is 2100 then you can assume that a very light server ranges from 0-350, light from 351-700, medium from 701 - 1050, heavey from 1051 - 1400, very heavy from 1401 - 1750, extremely heavy from 1751 - 2100.
With these assumptions you can then calculate that currently there is a maximum of 14,350 accounts logged in a this time.
Hardly an outstanding number for a Star Wars MMO, particularily with a 5 year anniversary event and a free veteran trial going on at the same time.
and if you look around other $OE and funCON games are going the same way.
age of conan now has tons of servers that are light why is this? funCON lied to the player base and keeps lieing to the player base and most of all came out with a game in a state where it is far from done.
the only way $OE can ever change the dropping numbers is by rolling all of the servers back to the pre-cu system and giving us vets 6 free months if not more. also firing smed and having him arrested for his crimes would help too. along with firing anyone that had anything to do with the nge and rehiring koster and his team.
and bioware should learn from this too if kotor online isn't a pre-cu system then us vets will kill that game like we did to swg.
OK, that last comment is just ridiculous. Bioware is under no obligation to give you back pre-CU. If you end up not liking it, nobody's forcing you to play it. But if you think you're going to "kill it" ... well, delusions of grandeur sure are cute.
The "arresting Smedley for his crimes" bit made me lol IRL.
So I started to walk into the water. I won't lie to you boys...I was terrified. But I pressed on, and as I made my way past the breakers, a strange calm came over me. I don't know if it was divine intervention or the kinship of all living things, but I tell you, Jerry, at that moment ... I was a marine biologist.
OK, that last comment is just ridiculous. Bioware is under no obligation to give you back pre-CU. If you end up not liking it, nobody's forcing you to play it. But if you think you're going to "kill it" ... well, delusions of grandeur sure are cute.
The "arresting Smedley for his crimes" bit made me lol IRL.
Yeah....his "crime" of being a douche. It WOULD be nice if being a douche were outlawed.
OK, that last comment is just ridiculous. Bioware is under no obligation to give you back pre-CU. If you end up not liking it, nobody's forcing you to play it. But if you think you're going to "kill it" ... well, delusions of grandeur sure are cute.
The "arresting Smedley for his crimes" bit made me lol IRL.
Yeah....his "crime" of being a douche. It WOULD be nice if being a douche were outlawed.
Id vote for that law if it were on the ballot this year.
Comments
Well, as it stands, Jestor and his sycophants having the "last laugh" is inevitable to a degree. Nothing lasts forever, and when SWG eventually does shut down (whether it be next week, next month, next year or next decade, my bets are shortly after KOTOR online comes out of beta), you'll crow that it was all your doing.
Of course it will be our doing. We vets have made sure that SOE didn't just get away with screwing over their entire SWG playerbase and we've turned them into an example that other companies have learned from. I doubt you'll ever see another developer make fundamental changes to a live game again.
Now your blind loyalty to SOE probably won't let you see things this way but it is the truth.
not only that but we vets have also shown that the only good game is a pre-cu sandbox game. not this level stuff that everyone pushes out and claims is fun.
kotor online will be a pre-cu game.
and those at $OE will have to look for new work i'd try taco bell if i was them.
Hey, the second KOTOR beta is announced, I'll be in line to apply for it. I can't wait ... Bioware MMO with a Star Wars theme? Sign me up!
But if you think KOTOR will be a sandbox game ... boy I'd hate to be you when it comes out. I loved pre-CU, I really did. But the fact that no sandbox game has come out since pre-CU and CU died indicates to me that the industry is not willing to go that route. They want linear, they want easy, they want mass appeal; not complicated stuff.
The reason I still play SWG, outside of my blind devotion to SOE (as some of your more ardent members would figure :P), is that I, personally, have not found something else I'd rather play.
I sincerely hope that Bioware, given its reputation for making the best single-player RPGs on the market, can bring back that sandbox feel, and that LA has learned the error of its ways in pushing SOE to change the game we loved. But I'm not counting my chickens until the beta is hatched.
So I started to walk into the water. I won't lie to you boys...I was terrified. But I pressed on, and as I made my way past the breakers, a strange calm came over me. I don't know if it was divine intervention or the kinship of all living things, but I tell you, Jerry, at that moment ... I was a marine biologist.
Please stop saying Lucas Arts pushed SOE to change the game. The ONLY evidence that LA did anything was they mandated SOE make the game more popular.
Every single other first hand account that has been printed shows that SOE dreamed up the changes and had to push them onto their superiors for approval.
Lets not blame Lucas Arts for being upset at SOE for several years of creating and managing an unfinished product with one of the worlds largest intelectual properties.
On the topic of SWG shutting down, it is absolutely the cause of how SOE chose to treat the customers and our reactions to that treatment. It doesn't matter that SWG has managed to limp along for a few years and turned 5 years old. No reasonable company would be happy with the condition and "profitability" the game is in. The game is effectively dead as far as a sellable product is and has been that way for almost 3 years.
Saying SWG isn't dead as a result of the exodus of people is being naive and dishonest to yourself.
As for the industry "wanting" linear level based games over sandbox, that is because almost every sandbox game has failed miserably. Why would anyone in their right mind want to make a style of game that has a large track record of failure? If you were investing money what would you invest in? Sandbox or an EQ style game? Think about that and then think WHY it is that way. Then you can thank SOE for helping put the nail in that coffin, especially Smed when he said Sandbox games are not viable.
LA didn't push SOE to create the NGE. LA probably told SOE to do something to increase subscription numbers and then SOE came up with the NGE and sold it to LA as the solution. SOE is responsible for screwing over their customers.
What LucasArts never understood is that the game would never be really succesful with SOE running things. Sure 250k players was great pre-WoW but SOE's ineptitude kept the game from really being huge when it could have been. Koster created an amazing virtual Star Wars world and SOE screwed it up piece by piece from day one until they finally trashed the whole game with the CU and the NGE.
Well, as it stands, Jestor and his sycophants having the "last laugh" is inevitable to a degree. Nothing lasts forever, and when SWG eventually does shut down (whether it be next week, next month, next year or next decade, my bets are shortly after KOTOR online comes out of beta), you'll crow that it was all your doing.
Of course it will be our doing. We vets have made sure that SOE didn't just get away with screwing over their entire SWG playerbase and we've turned them into an example that other companies have learned from. I doubt you'll ever see another developer make fundamental changes to a live game again.
Now your blind loyalty to SOE probably won't let you see things this way but it is the truth.
The SWG vets have the biggest egos I have ever seen in the gaming industry. Not only did you accomplish nothing, but you are willing to make a complete ass out of yourselves over a game that was crap from the start.
Get over yourself. . .SOE doesn't care about you nor do any of the other people that are still playing SWG. As for your boast that no other companies will make fundamental changes again, think before your speak. It will be done again. Maybe not soon but mark my words it will be done again.
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LA didn't push SOE to create the NGE. LA probably told SOE to do something to increase subscription numbers and then SOE came up with the NGE and sold it to LA as the solution. SOE is responsible for screwing over their customers.
What LucasArts never understood is that the game would never be really succesful with SOE running things. Sure 250k players was great pre-WoW but SOE's ineptitude kept the game from really being huge when it could have been. Koster created an amazing virtual Star Wars world and SOE screwed it up piece by piece from day one until they finally trashed the whole game with the CU and the NGE.
I know LA didn't push for the NGE specifically, but they did basically throw down the gauntlet and say "do whatever you have to do to make this game sell eleventy billion subscriptions." To absolve them of any blame is foolhardy.
So I started to walk into the water. I won't lie to you boys...I was terrified. But I pressed on, and as I made my way past the breakers, a strange calm came over me. I don't know if it was divine intervention or the kinship of all living things, but I tell you, Jerry, at that moment ... I was a marine biologist.
The true Star Wars fans have already left.
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
Well, as it stands, Jestor and his sycophants having the "last laugh" is inevitable to a degree. Nothing lasts forever, and when SWG eventually does shut down (whether it be next week, next month, next year or next decade, my bets are shortly after KOTOR online comes out of beta), you'll crow that it was all your doing.
Of course it will be our doing. We vets have made sure that SOE didn't just get away with screwing over their entire SWG playerbase and we've turned them into an example that other companies have learned from. I doubt you'll ever see another developer make fundamental changes to a live game again.
Now your blind loyalty to SOE probably won't let you see things this way but it is the truth.
not only that but we vets have also shown that the only good game is a pre-cu sandbox game. not this level stuff that everyone pushes out and claims is fun.
kotor online will be a pre-cu game.
and those at $OE will have to look for new work i'd try taco bell if i was them.
If you've played any Bioware game you will know that they are all extremely linear. Theres no reason to think an mmo developed by them would be any different.
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
Well, as it stands, Jestor and his sycophants having the "last laugh" is inevitable to a degree. Nothing lasts forever, and when SWG eventually does shut down (whether it be next week, next month, next year or next decade, my bets are shortly after KOTOR online comes out of beta), you'll crow that it was all your doing.
Of course it will be our doing. We vets have made sure that SOE didn't just get away with screwing over their entire SWG playerbase and we've turned them into an example that other companies have learned from. I doubt you'll ever see another developer make fundamental changes to a live game again.
Now your blind loyalty to SOE probably won't let you see things this way but it is the truth.
The SWG vets have the biggest egos I have ever seen in the gaming industry. Not only did you accomplish nothing, but you are willing to make a complete ass out of yourselves over a game that was crap from the start.
Get over yourself. . .SOE doesn't care about you nor do any of the other people that are still playing SWG. As for your boast that no other companies will make fundamental changes again, think before your speak. It will be done again. Maybe not soon but mark my words it will be done again.
Thanks in part to the reaction and advocacy of SWG players, thousands of people obtained full refunds on the Trials of Obi-Wan expansion. That's very significant, and I thank everyone who took a stand on that issue. Others copied their state attorney general and obtained full subscription refunds I'm told. Many people have heard about player reactions in forums and on the news, and as a result, people think twice before signing up to pay SOE money. Some have alerted the FTC to the questionable business practices connected with this game, and they are being tracked and recorded in a database. SOE and LEC are both undergoing massive restructuring. The facts speak for themselves. People have spoken out, and it has in fact made a number of significant differences. I've been glad to see it. You can deny it if you like. Living in denial is of course your perogative.
Personally I don't attach self-worth to the success or failure of advocacy efforts. I do notice results though, and feel good when they are positive. It's a good thing to be able to have even a small part in a positive change. Nice job SWG vets
Other companies will always make fundamental changes to their product, the NGE wasn't a fundamental change.
What LucasArts never understood is that the game would never be really succesful with SOE running things. Sure 250k players was great pre-WoW but SOE's ineptitude kept the game from really being huge when it could have been. Koster created an amazing virtual Star Wars world and SOE screwed it up piece by piece from day one until they finally trashed the whole game with the CU and the NGE.
I know LA didn't push for the NGE specifically, but they did basically throw down the gauntlet and say "do whatever you have to do to make this game sell eleventy billion subscriptions." To absolve them of any blame is foolhardy.
Yup, they are to blame all right -- they are to be blamed for trusting SOE. Big mistake there.
It was SOE who failed the game in the beginning; which is why the game underformed. The game was released late, and it still wasn't ready, due to SOE's mismanagement of developer assets.
They spent years not fixng what was wrong, and subs never got high enough to match SOE's original projections (over a million was the projections, the best they ever got was 350, which gradually fell to 250 or so). This was completely due to SOE's mismanagement of the game and not fixing longstanding problems.
Then, when LA called them on it, Smedley had to cover it up. He did so first by blaming the original design (when the problem was his mismanagement), so they simplified the design (CU). That failed, so LA called them on that failure, and they then blamed WoW (to continue the coverup mismanagment). LA said okay, fix it then. SOE then made a cheap shabby copy of WoW.
That failed as well. LA was at fault for trusting SOE and counting on them to know what they were doing, and operating in good faith. That was a big mistake.
I hope they have learned their lesson. It seems that bioware is a more honerable operation, so if they have chosen them, it looks as if they have chosen well.
fishermage.blogspot.com
How is it not a fundamental change? They took an open-ended sandbox type game and made it into a level based linear grind (I'm combinging the CU and NGE). If you just take the NGE into consideration they took 30+ professions and mashed them into 9, they destroyed the non-combat professions and completely recreated the combat system. How is that not fundamental change?
Only time will tell but it should be obvious, even to a SOE apologists, that the NGE was a huge mistake that lost them the majority of their playerbase. You can troll all you want and call us names but we were right to fight them on it and we *have* won. Sorry you're jealous of our success.
LA didn't push SOE to create the NGE. LA probably told SOE to do something to increase subscription numbers and then SOE came up with the NGE and sold it to LA as the solution. SOE is responsible for screwing over their customers.
What LucasArts never understood is that the game would never be really succesful with SOE running things. Sure 250k players was great pre-WoW but SOE's ineptitude kept the game from really being huge when it could have been. Koster created an amazing virtual Star Wars world and SOE screwed it up piece by piece from day one until they finally trashed the whole game with the CU and the NGE.
I know LA didn't push for the NGE specifically, but they did basically throw down the gauntlet and say "do whatever you have to do to make this game sell eleventy billion subscriptions." To absolve them of any blame is foolhardy.
Once again you completely miss my point. I have never said LA didn't share some of the responsibility for the NGE and they certainly should have stepped in after it exploded and caused SWG to lose over 200k players but SOE absolutely deserves the lion's share of the blame in the whole mess. They could have been open and honest about the state of the game and they could have done more to fix the old game so the NGE wouldn't have been necessary in the first place. That's the real tragedy in the whole saga...if they had just fixed the problems with the pre-CU game I honestly believe that the subscriptions would have rebounded and players looking for a game with more substance than WoW would have flocked to it.
Yes, SOE does not care about the former SWG players and the droves that left. That is why former players can't blink without getting a mailbox full of reactivation time begging to please come back, PLEASE! That is why the official forums have multiple posts about dead servers and ideas of how to get people to play the game. Anyone who posts a "I'm back" thread is welcomed with large amounts of cheering.
You are also correct that other companies will make blindsiding drastic changes that some executive in marketing reseach told them will be the path to riches and glory. Idiots are doomed to repeat the mistakes of the past. SOE did it just like Coca-cola did and I am sure there will be more to repeat those same mistakes. Barring SOE, I bet you don't see it from a profitable MMO with several hundred thousand players again. Care to wager?
What I meant by "not a fundamental change" is SoE introduced a completely different game than the one we purchased Pre-CU. Far from fundamental in my opinion.
Only time will tell but it should be obvious, even to a SOE apologists, that the NGE was a huge mistake that lost them the majority of their playerbase. You can troll all you want and call us names but we were right to fight them on it and we *have* won. Sorry you're jealous of our success.
Yes, I am INCREDIBLY jealous that I have not wasted the two years of my life playing this game and three years bitching about it.
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You wouldn't understand
you know what? there shouldn't even be an E3. i feel you don't need it not only that E3 over hypes games that turn out to be bad.
E3 hyped age of conan and it's one of the worst mmos to date. E3 hyped other games and has now become a microsoft and nintendo lovefest. and microsoft is known for ripping people off and nintendo can only make systems where you play bowling with a remote.
you want to find out about a game? read the forums and see what other people have to say you'll see the truth.
and the truth is swg isn't there as it is a dead game. the player base is about 4k players and a joke of the mmo world. and $OE knows you show off good games at E3
not games that at one time where the greatest game ever made turned into a shell of it's former self.
Sweet, now we're down to 4K! Which one of you guys is going to say 3K next?
So I started to walk into the water. I won't lie to you boys...I was terrified. But I pressed on, and as I made my way past the breakers, a strange calm came over me. I don't know if it was divine intervention or the kinship of all living things, but I tell you, Jerry, at that moment ... I was a marine biologist.
Sweet, now we're down to 4K! Which one of you guys is going to say 3K next?
3k
it seems E3 has gone all business. I mean business was always a large part of gaming and thats fine, of course. But, Gov. Rick Perry Texas (R) is the keynote speaker giving the opening address to set the theme for a gaming convention in LA? Does mr wal mart have some sort of experience in creating or publshing video games? I am surprised that more companies arent leaving the show and the ESA. I mean they really seem to have lost there perspective.
Sweet, now we're down to 4K! Which one of you guys is going to say 3K next?
Ever notice how the conversation is not about how many subs SWG has, but rather how few?
Right now, at 9:30PM eastern time July 1st there is 1 heavy server, 5 medium servers, 3 light servers and 16 very light servers.
Making a few educated assumptions you can figure out an approximation of how many people are on at this moment. If there are 6 levels to a server population (very light, light, medium, heavy, very heavy, extremely heavy, and finally full), and given a reasonable number for the maximum number of players on a full server it would make sense that the server takes that maximum number and divides it by 6 to determine it current status.
For example if a max server population is 2100 then you can assume that a very light server ranges from 0-350, light from 351-700, medium from 701 - 1050, heavey from 1051 - 1400, very heavy from 1401 - 1750, extremely heavy from 1751 - 2100.
With these assumptions you can then calculate that currently there is a maximum of 14,350 accounts logged in a this time.
Hardly an outstanding number for a Star Wars MMO, particularily with a 5 year anniversary event and a free veteran trial going on at the same time.
*edit*
Given the same numbers the minimum accounts logged in at this moment would be 5606.
Sweet, now we're down to 4K! Which one of you guys is going to say 3K next?
Ever notice how the conversation is not about how many subs SWG has, but rather how few?
Right now, at 9:30PM eastern time July 1st there is 1 heavy server, 5 medium servers, 3 light servers and 16 very light servers.
Making a few educated assumptions you can figure out an approximation of how many people are on at this moment. If there are 6 levels to a server population (very light, light, medium, heavy, very heavy, extremely heavy, and finally full), and given a reasonable number for the maximum number of players on a full server it would make sense that the server takes that maximum number and divides it by 6 to determine it current status.
For example if a max server population is 2100 then you can assume that a very light server ranges from 0-350, light from 351-700, medium from 701 - 1050, heavey from 1051 - 1400, very heavy from 1401 - 1750, extremely heavy from 1751 - 2100.
With these assumptions you can then calculate that currently there is a maximum of 14,350 accounts logged in a this time.
Hardly an outstanding number for a Star Wars MMO, particularily with a 5 year anniversary event and a free veteran trial going on at the same time.
and if you look around other $OE and funCON games are going the same way.
age of conan now has tons of servers that are light why is this? funCON lied to the player base and keeps lieing to the player base and most of all came out with a game in a state where it is far from done.
the only way $OE can ever change the dropping numbers is by rolling all of the servers back to the pre-cu system and giving us vets 6 free months if not more. also firing smed and having him arrested for his crimes would help too. along with firing anyone that had anything to do with the nge and rehiring koster and his team.
and bioware should learn from this too if kotor online isn't a pre-cu system then us vets will kill that game like we did to swg.
Sweet, now we're down to 4K! Which one of you guys is going to say 3K next?
Ever notice how the conversation is not about how many subs SWG has, but rather how few?
Right now, at 9:30PM eastern time July 1st there is 1 heavy server, 5 medium servers, 3 light servers and 16 very light servers.
Making a few educated assumptions you can figure out an approximation of how many people are on at this moment. If there are 6 levels to a server population (very light, light, medium, heavy, very heavy, extremely heavy, and finally full), and given a reasonable number for the maximum number of players on a full server it would make sense that the server takes that maximum number and divides it by 6 to determine it current status.
For example if a max server population is 2100 then you can assume that a very light server ranges from 0-350, light from 351-700, medium from 701 - 1050, heavey from 1051 - 1400, very heavy from 1401 - 1750, extremely heavy from 1751 - 2100.
With these assumptions you can then calculate that currently there is a maximum of 14,350 accounts logged in a this time.
Hardly an outstanding number for a Star Wars MMO, particularily with a 5 year anniversary event and a free veteran trial going on at the same time.
and if you look around other $OE and funCON games are going the same way.
age of conan now has tons of servers that are light why is this? funCON lied to the player base and keeps lieing to the player base and most of all came out with a game in a state where it is far from done.
the only way $OE can ever change the dropping numbers is by rolling all of the servers back to the pre-cu system and giving us vets 6 free months if not more. also firing smed and having him arrested for his crimes would help too. along with firing anyone that had anything to do with the nge and rehiring koster and his team.
and bioware should learn from this too if kotor online isn't a pre-cu system then us vets will kill that game like we did to swg.
OK, that last comment is just ridiculous. Bioware is under no obligation to give you back pre-CU. If you end up not liking it, nobody's forcing you to play it. But if you think you're going to "kill it" ... well, delusions of grandeur sure are cute.
The "arresting Smedley for his crimes" bit made me lol IRL.
So I started to walk into the water. I won't lie to you boys...I was terrified. But I pressed on, and as I made my way past the breakers, a strange calm came over me. I don't know if it was divine intervention or the kinship of all living things, but I tell you, Jerry, at that moment ... I was a marine biologist.
OK, that last comment is just ridiculous. Bioware is under no obligation to give you back pre-CU. If you end up not liking it, nobody's forcing you to play it. But if you think you're going to "kill it" ... well, delusions of grandeur sure are cute.
The "arresting Smedley for his crimes" bit made me lol IRL.
Yeah....his "crime" of being a douche. It WOULD be nice if being a douche were outlawed.
OK, that last comment is just ridiculous. Bioware is under no obligation to give you back pre-CU. If you end up not liking it, nobody's forcing you to play it. But if you think you're going to "kill it" ... well, delusions of grandeur sure are cute.
The "arresting Smedley for his crimes" bit made me lol IRL.
Yeah....his "crime" of being a douche. It WOULD be nice if being a douche were outlawed.
Id vote for that law if it were on the ballot this year.
-Jive