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I love SOE
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You can take it however you want but the whole thing sounds extremely childish. I have not and never will be attached to a game enough to care beyond a few days if my characters were reset. The fact of the situation is its done, its over, time to move on. If you continue to have a vendetta against SOE so be it but don't preach it all over the place because people in general are sick of it.
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You wouldn't understand
made for a good read, and finally the first real reason I can empathise with,
but my argument still stands.
Although I may have 'had to be there' , it helps that I wasn't. I'm one that hasn't had the experience of any plunders, so my argument is unbiased. I'm playing Vanguard atm, and no disrespect, but you're silly for letting it go just for the reason of SoE taking over. Fair enough they ruined your old favourites (although I have read mixed reactions about EQ1, which is why I missed that off my list) , it means they are likely to have learned their 'lesson'.
It still remains, fair enough being sore against a company, but there is absolutely no use spreading the hate and letting it cloud your judgement on new games, as you may find you are missing out on brilliant games (VG being one).
Soe wouldn't pay more money to sigil so vanguard had to be released early..They just wanted it out the door before the burning crusade to make a quick buck.
You can take it however you want but the whole thing sounds extremely childish. I have not and never will be attached to a game enough to care beyond a few days if my characters were reset. The fact of the situation is its done, its over, time to move on. If you continue to have a vendetta against SOE so be it but don't preach it all over the place because people in general are sick of it.
I don't care what you're sick of, im not preaching it. It's in my sig which most people probably dont even look at. I'm over the nge fiasco but i wont buy a Soe game again and thats where i stand. im preaching nothing, i have never made a thread about Soe. but if someone starts a thread titled I love Soe, that is the place where i will preach my opinion.
soe did not make vanguard..they took it over from sigil. Vanguard would not be as free and open if it were originally a soe game..it would be like everquest 2, full of zones and loading screens.
Its a good thing you know this as a FACT isn't that right? For all you know Vanguard could have taken all of WoW's subs if SOE developed it.
now you're really in fantasy mode..i would put my house on that never happening with any Soe game.
maybe, maybe not. the fact is that you don't KNOW. You're just assuming that old habits die hard, so to speak.
I'm not against you dude, im against Soe, if this offends well too bad..if you woke up one day and discovered that the game you are paying for is now a totally different game..you would be pissed too..example if you had a character in wow that was a lvl 70 warrior, and you log in one day to find out that the warrior class was gone and you were left with a lvl 1 character and had to choose from 5 new classes..you would not be happy with that company would you.
I realise you are against soe, it says it in your sig. Yes, I would be annoyed, and yes, I would probably stop playing the game. Would it make me sore about the company? yes. But no, I wouldn't go around spreading hate, and no I wouldn't disregard future releases because of an error.
the thing is I'm aware of why people are annoyed, I would be too, but it's still stupid, especially after so long, to hate the company and have 'don't buy a soe game' in your sig, because if you don't give them another chance, how are you going to see whether they have improved?
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soe did not make vanguard..they took it over from sigil. Vanguard would not be as free and open if it were originally a soe game..it would be like everquest 2, full of zones and loading screens.
Its a good thing you know this as a FACT isn't that right? For all you know Vanguard could have taken all of WoW's subs if SOE developed it.
now you're really in fantasy mode..i would put my house on that never happening with any Soe game.
maybe, maybe not. the fact is that you don't KNOW. You're just assuming that old habits die hard, so to speak.
I'm not against you dude, im against Soe, if this offends well too bad..if you woke up one day and discovered that the game you are paying for is now a totally different game..you would be pissed too..example if you had a character in wow that was a lvl 70 warrior, and you log in one day to find out that the warrior class was gone and you were left with a lvl 1 character and had to choose from 5 new classes..you would not be happy with that company would you.
I realise you are against soe, it says it in your sig. Yes, I would be annoyed, and yes, I would probably stop playing the game. Would it make me sore about the company? yes. But no, I wouldn't go around spreading hate, and no I wouldn't disregard future releases because of an error.
the thing is I'm aware of why people are annoyed, I would be too, but it's still stupid, especially after so long, to hate the company and have 'don't buy a soe game' in your sig, because if you don't give them another chance, how are you going to see whether they have improved?
You and I are different people with different morals. last time i checked i had freedom of speech, if you don't like what is in my sig well thats your problem.
It's not 'my problem' if you have it in your sig, it is your problem for being so narrow minded.
Yes, you are preaching. You are telling people what to do, trying to dictate. If no-one reads your sig, then why have your preachy opinion in there? You seemed to read mine. 'Im way too cool' ?
One of my morals are 'give people a second chance'.
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Hello!
"I don't care what you're sick of, im not preaching it. It's in my sig which most people probably dont even look at. I'm over the nge fiasco but i wont buy a Soe game again and thats where i stand. im preaching nothing, i have never made a thread about Soe. but if someone starts a thread titled I love Soe, that is the place where i will preach my opinion."
I just looked at your profile and your 2 recent posts are also on SOE related topics, so you may not post THREADS about soe, but you seem to love making replies about them.
AND
not only that, you made a post saying 'don't buy FFXI' , if you don't call that preaching then jesus. I further looked into your recent posts, and it seems you are hung up about SOE, about 50% of them are SOE related. Sad really.
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Kind of works like a scorned child. Give the quivering lip to the parents and maybe get something special.
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You wouldn't understand
I would think, if you are reading that "SOE ruins games" or similar sentiments on a frequent basis, it might be worth stopping and seeing if there is some merit in it. Now, regardless of what you may find, this is exactly the desired effect of those people who post such so why should they stop?
From my perspective, I was an SWG player right up until the CU was implemented. I never had to go through the NGE fiasco because SOE disappointed me early I guess. For those that did go through the deceptive marketing practices and character assasination, I believe they are completely justified in their crusade.
On the flip side, you are well with in your rights to post your opinion. Keeping that in mind, asking people who feel wronged, especially the SWG vets, to sit quietly about it probably isn't goign to fly too far. Also, trying to marginalize the past will likely have the opposite of your intended goal.
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers.
Do something wrong, no one forgets"
-from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
Well, I was in VG at launch. Further, I followed the game for years before it was actually published.
To me, VG was a huge letdown before SOE even came on the scene.
Now, maybe my judgement about SOE is clouded, but I don't think my perception of VG was. See, not being an industry insider, it was easy for me to look at the destruction of EQ1 in this way: Brad McQuaid was a legendary designer and SOE was a bunch of mass market seeking buffoons who had no idea what a good game actually was.
Indeed, I drank the Koolade with regards to VG because of this perception that I and many others had. They created a website and hired some big names in the industry away from other deveolpers. They sought player ideas on the forums promising the best of them would be implemented.
The finest of those ideas that I read, and one that was promised to be implemeted, was one we referred to as dynamic campfires. A "campfire" being defined as a safe area where players could rest and wandering mobs would not come close to. The idea was that the more people that camped there (due to a proximity of a popular dungeon let's say), the more the place evolved. Vendors would begin to appear. Possible something like a little mining town would eventually pop up over time.But should the player population in the area decrease for whatvere reason, the campfire would begin to devolve back to its original form.
How cool is that?
So, now... here I am going in to VG... surely a true "next gen" game lead by the legendary McQaid, worked on by some of the greates talent in the industry, and made even greater by the acceptance of player suggestions... and my expectations were quite high.
My initial reaction was bitter disappointment. THIS is a next-gen game? Doesn't seem like it. Something is worng here. However, I continued on with the idea that I would find the game's true greatness later on.
That later on never came. The announcement with regards to SOEwas the last straw, not the whole cause of the decision.
However, this story DOES illustrate just how mistaken my percaptions can be. I'm not much of a hater even if I am mad. If SOE puts out a well reviewed game, I'll play it. However, it is clear to me NOW that McQuaid is a close to a complete bozo. So much for perceptions, eh?
Truthfully, though, I am disgusted with the genre in general. Don't get me wrong, I am glad for people that enjoy games like WoW even though it is not my personal cup of tea. What irks me is the genre's singular focus and business model at this time. So, while I'll continue to lurk here in hope of something eventually chamging my mind, my guild and I have decided to withdraw from all such games for now. We're going to try some private NWN shards and see how we like it.
not really. If i read it 1000 times it doesn't make it true. All I know is VG is good, EQ2 is good, and that's all the 'proof' I need.
The same thing goes for the hype ratings. Enough people bummed out AoC to the extent it became no.1 on the charts. Does that make it a good game? no.
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Hello!
I have to respond to this because it's so juicy...
First point... SOE did "ruin" swg, but if you've played it lately, it's hellaciously fun and stable. It feels a lot like it did before the combat upgrade, fun wise.
Second point... People don't forget. Because of the Vanguard and CU fiascos, there are a lot of gamers that won't touch an SOE game, ever again. You can't change the entire ruleset of a game like they did with SWG. That isn't what people signed up for that have been there. It's like changing the rules and making them up as you go along in the middle of a football game (compressed time scale of course) and doing things like making passing the football illegal for a quarterback. It simply doesn't fly. Adjustments are one thing, but a whole combat system rewrite? Are you kidding me? Sorry but I can't fault anyone that feels this way. Unless you've been through it, you can't either.
Third... I'm one of those people that felt they ruined swg. I also feel like they've undone a lot of the damage they did by making the game better. That game is fun now. I'm a pre-cu vet, did the jedi grind before then, and still think it's a blast. Their new dev team rocks and have managed to rekindle the magic.
That being said, I'm playing AoC right now... when my guild gets sick of it, I'll reactivate my Vanguard and SWG accounts.
-Viz
So, only addressing half of the context really negates the message. The part where I explained that seeing if there was merit in the complaints was the exact goal of "anti-SOE" posts was the important part.
That said, personally, I haven't enjoyed EQ2 at all so, as a matter of personal opinion I would have to disagree just as, in a matter of personal opinion, you like VG and EQ2. The best part is that we are both entitled to that opinion and entitled to voice them.
As far as AoC, I can't make a judgement call since I haven't played, but where are your "I Love Funcom" posts. They seem to have a number of detractors for many of the same reasons SOE does. They also have history that such detractors site with AO.
Surely these two companies who have established their track records deserve nothing but love and teddy bears from us.
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers.
Do something wrong, no one forgets"
-from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
Well, I was in VG at launch. Further, I followed the game for years before it was actually published.
To me, VG was a huge letdown before SOE even came on the scene.
Now, maybe my judgement about SOE is clouded, but I don't think my perception of VG was. See, not being an industry insider, it was easy for me to look at the destruction of EQ1 in this way: Brad McQuaid was a legendary designer and SOE was a bunch of mass market seeking buffoons who had no idea what a good game actually was.
Indeed, I drank the Koolade with regards to VG because of this perception that I and many others had. They created a website and hired some big names in the industry away from other deveolpers. They sought player ideas on the forums promising the best of them would be implemented.
The finest of those ideas that I read, and one that was promised to be implemeted, was one we referred to as dynamic campfires. A "campfire" being defined as a safe area where players could rest and wandering mobs would not come close to. The idea was that the more people that camped there (due to a proximity of a popular dungeon let's say), the more the place evolved. Vendors would begin to appear. Possible something like a little mining town would eventually pop up over time.But should the player population in the area decrease for whatvere reason, the campfire would begin to devolve back to its original form.
How cool is that?
So, now... here I am going in to VG... surely a true "next gen" game lead by the legendary McQaid, worked on by some of the greates talent in the industry, and made even greater by the acceptance of player suggestions... and my expectations were quite high.
My initial reaction was bitter disappointment. THIS is a next-gen game? Doesn't seem like it. Something is worng here. However, I continued on with the idea that I would find the game's true greatness later on.
That later on never came. The announcement with regards to SOEwas the last straw, not the whole cause of the decision.
However, this story DOES illustrate just how mistaken my percaptions can be. I'm not much of a hater even if I am mad. If SOE puts out a well reviewed game, I'll play it. However, it is clear to me NOW that McQuaid is a close to a complete bozo. So much for perceptions, eh?
Truthfully, though, I am disgusted with the genre in general. Don't get me wrong, I am glad for people that enjoy games like WoW even though it is not my personal cup of tea. What irks me is the genre's singular focus and business model at this time. So, while I'll continue to lurk here in hope of something eventually chamging my mind, my guild and I have decided to withdraw from all such games for now. We're going to try some private NWN shards and see how we like it.
yes that idea does actually sound very good, but to implement ideas like this (and yes, this would be a laaarge task to undertake), the game needs to be in working order, which it wasn't for a long time. SOE has had their work cut out for them in trying to stablize the game, which isn't helped by a lack of support (you said it yourself, you left due to the state of the game and soe coming in) , which meant less staff to work on it, less cool ideas like the campfire. I do believe if pushed enough, ideas like that could be implemented.
Fair enough not liking VG, due to the game itself or the fact that it was a failure to what you expected,
but my original post was about people that don't give soe a chance, and obsess about SOE. I see anti SOE stuff in almost every post out there.
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I dunno, I have a feeling that actually it's just a meme that's running free now, and a substantial proportion of people who say "SOE are crap" are just parroting what they've heard because they think it's cool to be against a big corporation. That's the really stupid thing. I can't substantiate that hunch, but that's my opinion. "SOE are crap" posts from real vets who went through the shit SOE put them through just have a more weighty feel to them, they've got as much genuine hurt as anger.
Regardless, whatever SOE did with SWG, which from what I've heard was pretty terrible, they did good things before it (EQ1) and good things since (supporting EQ2 and Vanguard through difficult times and turning them around). So like most companies they have a mixed record. Quelle suprise.
We would all love everybody to be perfect and do their jobs brilliantly and never put a foot wrong - in fact, we'd all love ourselves to be perfect and do our jobs briliantly and never put a foot wrong. But we're human beings, sometimes we make mistakes, and sometimes we're a wee bit wicked and try to see what we can get away with. While we have to take the moral high ground and keep each other up to the mark, it's the better part of wisdom to be prepared to give people a second or even a third chance, if they show contrition.
That might be the main thing that keeps the real vets angry - SOE have never shown any contrition for screwing up SWG for the majority of its playerbase in its bodged attempt to cash in on WoW-like gameplay, and screw the vets. It was definitely a huge mistake, with more than a dash of mindless corporate greed backing it up.
But things move on.
This is a very good point and goes back to my comment about deceptive marketing and marginalization of the vete player base as SOE chased greener pasteurs.
One important thing that I think get's left out of many conversations, is that pretty much every SWG vet that now bashes SOE wanted SWG to be the biggest success out there. Despite this, SOE loaded their gun and aimed for their feet. They sold expansion packs knowing that the content would be invalidated by the "upgrade" they were working on (and not telling the players about).
So, when a company lies to you like that; when they invalidate the time you have invested in their product which was significant for many, wouldn't you be a bit pissed. Maybe you wouldn't and that is your call. Many fall into the "once bitten, twice shy" area and stay away from SOE and make every effort to share their experience and warn others that it could happen again if SOE thought they could capture a more appealing market.
And that is what these anti-SOE posts boil down to in my opinion: Don't forget history else you end up repeating it.
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers.
Do something wrong, no one forgets"
-from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
So, only addressing half of the context really negates the message. The part where I explained that seeing if there was merit in the complaints was the exact goal of "anti-SOE" posts was the important part.
That said, personally, I haven't enjoyed EQ2 at all so, as a matter of personal opinion I would have to disagree just as, in a matter of personal opinion, you like VG and EQ2. The best part is that we are both entitled to that opinion and entitled to voice them.
As far as AoC, I can't make a judgement call since I haven't played, but where are your "I Love Funcom" posts. They seem to have a number of detractors for many of the same reasons SOE does. They also have history that such detractors site with AO.
Surely these two companies who have established their track records deserve nothing but love and teddy bears from us.
oh sorry, welll I personally don;t see the point of spreading 'anti soe' threads, because yes, they have beeen annoyed, but they shouldn't try to put people off future SOE products, especially beacuse most of the posts i read are from people that don't actually play the game they are posting about. So yeah, it's their goal to put people off, but I don't think they have the right. Who are they to say what games people should play?
I personally don't like EQ2 either, but I can see it's a good game that has been fully developped. I personally didn't like a few things on the trial island thing so I didn't get into it because I had no patients to try and find a good class on the same starting point over and over, something that would have been sorted if i bought the game..
I haven't played AoC either, and I didn't say it was a bad game. My point was that just because people have said / rated it highly, it doesn't necessarily make it good (or bad). so just bceause I see 1000 anti soe posts, it doesn't mean they're right or even justified.
If I tried AoC and didn't like it, I wouldn't go around spreading hate about it's developpers. I don't like a lot of games, I just move on . I certainly wouldn't make posts about it and have it in my sig.
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Hello!
So, only addressing half of the context really negates the message. The part where I explained that seeing if there was merit in the complaints was the exact goal of "anti-SOE" posts was the important part.
That said, personally, I haven't enjoyed EQ2 at all so, as a matter of personal opinion I would have to disagree just as, in a matter of personal opinion, you like VG and EQ2. The best part is that we are both entitled to that opinion and entitled to voice them.
As far as AoC, I can't make a judgement call since I haven't played, but where are your "I Love Funcom" posts. They seem to have a number of detractors for many of the same reasons SOE does. They also have history that such detractors site with AO.
Surely these two companies who have established their track records deserve nothing but love and teddy bears from us.
oh sorry, welll I personally don;t see the point of spreading 'anti soe' threads, because yes, they have beeen annoyed, but they shouldn't try to put people off future SOE products, especially beacuse most of the posts i read are from people that don't actually play the game they are posting about. So yeah, it's their goal to put people off, but I don't think they have the right. Who are they to say what games people should play?
I personally don't like EQ2 either, but I can see it's a good game that has been fully developped. I personally didn't like a few things on the trial island thing so I didn't get into it because I had no patients to try and find a good class on the same starting point over and over, something that would have been sorted if i bought the game..
I haven't played AoC either, and I didn't say it was a bad game. My point was that just because people have said / rated it highly, it doesn't necessarily make it good (or bad). so just bceause I see 1000 anti soe posts, it doesn't mean they're right or even justified.
If I tried AoC and didn't like it, I wouldn't go around spreading hate about it's developpers. I don't like a lot of games, I just move on . I certainly wouldn't make posts about it and have it in my sig.
well mmorpg.com do see the point of anti-soe threads because they made a special forum for swg vets to bash Soe. No one cares what you think because your way to cool.
I think my other post addressed most of your points, but the above lines are an important distinction. People didn't just try SWG. They invested a lot of time, building their character and in-game communities, and were lead to believe things would not be changing in the manner they did (such as professions being completely removed). Meanwhile, to catch up to present day SOE, some of the people involved in those decisions are still employed by SOE. So, I believe that as long as those people work for SOE, you will rightfully see SOE bashing taking place.
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers.
Do something wrong, no one forgets"
-from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
That forum was made to keep the so called "Vets" from polluting the rest of the forums with "BURN SOE!11!LAWL" threads because "No one cares what you think because your way to cool."
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I think that was more in an attempt to keep the General SWG forum clear for those poor souls who happen to enjoy playing the SWG that exists now, and wanted to talk about it without every single thread being turned into an anti-SOE rant.
It was a sensible move for both "sides" really. I can understand the anger and the need to vent even now, a few years down the line; but I can also understand that it must be very annoying for people who do like the game to be called idiots for simply enjoying a game. (And having tried SWG recently, I have to say, it's not all that bad. Not the truly great MMO it could have been and should have been, but not as bad as you might think from the constant ranting. IOW I can understand some people enjoying it now.)
that's only because people like you were clogging up the posts, so people that wanted to buy the games couldn't get decent reviews
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Hello!
That forum was made to keep the so called "Vets" from polluting the rest of the forums with "BURN SOE!11!LAWL" threads because "No one cares what you think because your way to cool."
its what his sig says, shouldn't you be dressing up as a gimp and going to the Soe fanfaire? your heroes are waiting. At least i have reason for Bashing Soe, whats your reason for defending them? why do you care, do you work for the company?
I think my other post addressed most of your points, but the above lines are an important distinction. People didn't just try SWG. They invested a lot of time, building their character and in-game communities, and were lead to believe things would not be changing in the manner they did (such as professions being completely removed). Meanwhile, to catch up to present day SOE, some of the people involved in those decisions are still employed by SOE. So, I believe that as long as those people work for SOE, you will rightfully see SOE bashing taking place.
the thing is, WoW-BC COMPLETELY ruined WoW for me, as I have said, but I don't cry about it! I just stopped playing.
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that's only because people like you were clogging up the posts, so people that wanted to buy the games couldn't get decent reviews
the only Soe game that got a decent review was everquest 1, well if those people make their decisions based on a forum then they're stupid. Companies should be held accountable for their actions, my sig is there so you cant forget.