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Again, it is not that SOE changed the game. They changed EQ1 and wrecked it in the eyes of many, but you didn't see people with such anger at SOE. Ok, so they ruined the game. We'll find another.
What it is about is the lies and fraud. That is orders of magnitude different than just changing a damn game! Can't some of you see that?
We are doing nothing more than what consumer protection groups are tasked to do. I miss SWG but I'm not mad about it. I'm mad that they lied to me and perpretatrated fraud by releasing an expansion that they knew would be trash in a very short time.
To me, that's outright fraud. A clause in the EULA was the only thing that prevented a class action lawsuit as far as I'm concerned. Note that I am not a lawyer nor do I play one on TV.
If you don't believe that we have the right to be mad about lies, fraud and poor ethics, then all I can do is to simply disagree with you. People must stand up to large corporations when they are wronged by them. It is our duty! No... really... it is.
No, you have every right to be angry, if you indeed see fraud. Now, understand fraud is difficult to prove in these instances, so maybe another adjective should be used. There probably are some lawyers or at least pre-law students that find enough time to frequent these pages.
Let's not use the term hate in manner that assumes the entire corporation is at fault because of a committee of people making an unpopular decision. Again what was it exactly that SoE allegedly lied about? I missed that somewhere and a link to their lie would be helpful.
All I want is the truth
Just gimme some truth
John Lennon
How long was the expansion out before the patch was introduced that would render it useless?
Maybe I had to play SWG pre CU, but I just watched the ronan32 youtube video that he posted (
) and I thought it looked really fun, and all the changes sounded like good ideas. I'm not sure what the gameplay is actually like, but honestly, no matter how it played out, it doesn't look or sound like his plans were meant for evil.
the thing is, if you are an ipod follower, you would remember that the ipod mini almost certainly broke after a year (mine included), but I don't see hundreds of people sitting outside shops telling people not to buy ipon nanos or big ipods simply because their first ipods were faulty.
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Hello!
Sorry, I got my 360 box for my 5TH repair for my 360 and I had to get it all ready, I guess HATE was a strong term even for me, I do not care for their games because when I played Pre-CU, I was in the protest for the game, about 2/3 of the players joined to protest, they didnt even care for that! I also do not care for them because when I came for my free months, guess what? No friends! NO FRIENDS AT ALL TO PLAY WITH!
Sorry, I got my 360 box for my 5TH repair for my 360 and I had to get it all ready, I guess HATE was a strong term even for me, I do not care for their games because when I played Pre-CU, I was in the protest for the game, about 2/3 of the players joined to protest, they didnt even care for that! I also do not care for them because when I came for my free months, guess what? No friends! NO FRIENDS AT ALL TO PLAY WITH!
Dlore how do you know the number of protesters were at 2/3? When we banter about numbers, we really should have some sort of backup as evidence of proof. This is why I don't buy into these rants.
All I want is the truth
Just gimme some truth
John Lennon
I don't remember exactly, but I'm going to say something like a month or so. I consider that irrelevent in any case. It was clear by the size and scope of the expansion that they knew of the changes upcoming for many months but still elected to release the expansion based on false pretense.
Whether or not you think the changes were good or not is WHOLLY irrelevant to this conversation. IT IS NOT ABOUT THE DAMN GAME CHANGES!!!!! Sheesh.
Same with the ipod, I fail to see any violation of ethical practice there.
Making changes to a game is not planned evil. Releasing an expansion on false pretense IS.
Please get away from people hating SOE because of the changes. That's just not it. Again, they changed EQ1 as well, but no one was screaming about ethics then. Probably because they did not lie to us or perpetrate fraud at that time. Now they have, but to you and others like you, that's just something to be dismissed!
Amazing. No offense, but I just don't grasp that mindset AT ALL.
NM found it.
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You wouldn't understand
Maybe what should be done here is simple. Since apparently there was some sort of lie told to the masses about an expansion pack it should be determined which person or person were directly responsible for the intended falsehood. This makes much more sense than lumping an entire corporation of folks just like you or me.
Find those directly responsible for marketing and distribution of the said expansion pack and unleash your full fury upon them, not the entire corporation, please.
All I want is the truth
Just gimme some truth
John Lennon
Well, given that I am in marketing, I can't let that pass.
Corporations must be judged as a whole, not seperate components. When someone in my company makes a mistake, WE have collectively made one. My customers don't focus on the actions of a single person or even group of people. They talk about my company as a whole... and rightly so.
That is exactly how I address issues back to them. I don't apologize for the actions of Joe Smith, but rather for the actions of my company as a whole. We are a team here, and as the old saying goes, a team is only as good as its weakest link.
Further, sometimes it is true that individuals are not responsible. Instead, many times faulty policy is the problem. Whatever it is, we win as a team and lose as one.
Please don't take offense to this question, but are you in school or in the workforce?
"
Honestly I think you are annoyed at the false pretenses, but the majority of posts I see are complaining about ruining SWG I'm afraid, so please don't overuse exclamation marks because you are annoyed for different reasons to a lot of other people on the forums. The fact that I didn't even know about any false pretenses before I started this thread but knew what they were complaining about should prove that. All I saw was 'they ruined SWG' etc.
See, I understand your argument, no-one likes to be cheated out of money.
I believe less were screaming about EQ because many thought EQ wasn't ruined, and they simply moved to EQ2 (which many will have been satisfied with), but I think the real reason people are annnoyed is because there is/was no real alternative to SWG and they believe that SOE ruined 'the best mmorpg of all time'.
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Hello!
Point well-taken sire! Yes any good company runs as a well-oiled machine. However, it is still imperative that it be known exactly who or what "team" was/were responsible for release information to the mass public. Large corporation generally run with specialized teams or groups of people responsible for a particular project and actually must sale the idea/s to the CEO before that idea can be made public. It is quite possible for a CEO in charge of so many various teams going at the same time that in a rare instance be deceived themselves by a desperate team of folks attempting to save a failing project. Now, it;s something fortunately that doesn't happen often, but it can happen.
At any rate, I take the point that there are just too many in SoE that had nothing to do with that particular project and shouldn't be condemned because of that team's short-comings. As for the CEO, yep, they should take any bullet the team takes, but in doing so should act accordingly so that the same mistakes doesn't happen twice.
All I want is the truth
Just gimme some truth
John Lennon
This has been one of the most entertaining flames wars I have ever read, SOE elitists such strong emotions on both sides of the fence. I’ll just fan the flames a little more.
The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity. - Harlan Ellison
Ok, Dale, just so long as you realize that for many of us, not all I agree, the current state of SWG has nothing at all to do with the price of pork and beans.
I agree with the spirit of your post alyndale, but sometimes the reality of things can make things a bit unfair. If you get food poisoned at a resteraunt and big news is made of it, than that establishment is going to take a hit - no matter what. We can feel bad for the waitress or dishwasher who had nothing to do with it, but are you going to go back and eat there any time soon?
I'm not. Possibly robbing innocents of thier livelyhood. Not fair, but just the way it is. That's why you don't just take a job at any old place.
If I had normally frequented that place and indeed this did happen in my town, I would then go back again. Maybe those that don't know those that ran the establishment would not return. However, it's a matter of faith and trust. In today's world something of this has not been taught to our youth nor has it been demonstrated by the media. Yes, I would return to that establishment knowing I enjoyed the food and never once was harmed by that food. Yes, i would question the owners but knowing that the owners are honorable people caught up in something they had little control over other than tasting the food before it went to the table themselves.
Sometimes you just have to go beyond the surface to see the roses. You have a good analogy and I'm afraid because people really do not practice faith in real terms, they would be too quick to judge especially when it was blown out of porportion by a media market that should be the bastion of honesty and faith.
So, I suppose I am one of the few that really would give that establishment a second chance where most would run in fear.
All I want is the truth
Just gimme some truth
John Lennon
Yes it caught my eye as well. However, I did not intend my posts to be flames, but simply my frustration with the emptiness of the "hate" going on. This has really been laughable to see how people take almost a religious stand for against SoE. Many times i read so many hate posts that are nothing more than bandwagon diatribe. For some apparent reason, to this point, no one has come forth with any link to show me these things that made everyone at SoE a demon in human skin!
All I want is the truth
Just gimme some truth
John Lennon
While I agree, you wouldn't eat there again, you would also not sit outside the door chanting 'i wish i was never poisoned' or in your case (no offense meant) 'they said my food was going to be fine, i don't mind that i was poisoned, just the fact that they said the food would be safe'
I think you would agree that doing so (yes, i realise the analogy is off by a long shot, but hopefully it gets across my point) would be a waste of time. Instead of going to the restaurant or any other in the franchise, and instead of complaining, you would simply eat somewhere else and save the story of when you were poisoned and the restaurant said it would be ok for dinner parties, or a story you could tell your grandson, afterall, if you brought that up every time food was mentioned, i think everyone would get bored and frustrated, especially since the restaurant will take extra care not to poison their food.
almost an entirely analogy based argumentative post there, impressive
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Hello!
While I agree, you wouldn't eat there again, you would also not sit outside the door chanting 'i wish i was never poisoned' or in your case (no offense meant) 'they said my food was going to be fine, i don't mind that i was poisoned, just the fact that they said the food would be safe'
I think you would agree that doing so (yes, i realise the analogy is off by a long shot, but hopefully it gets across my point) would be a waste of time. Instead of going to the restaurant or any other in the franchise, and instead of complaining, you would simply eat somewhere else and save the story of when you were poisoned and the restaurant said it would be ok for dinner parties, or a story you could tell your grandson, afterall, if you brought that up every time food was mentioned, i think everyone would get bored and frustrated, especially since the restaurant will take extra care not to poison their food.
almost an entirely analogy based argumentative post there, impressive
Ha! Touche!
All I want is the truth
Just gimme some truth
John Lennon
While I agree, you wouldn't eat there again, you would also not sit outside the door chanting 'i wish i was never poisoned' or in your case (no offense meant) 'they said my food was going to be fine, i don't mind that i was poisoned, just the fact that they said the food would be safe'
I think you would agree that doing so (yes, i realise the analogy is off by a long shot, but hopefully it gets across my point) would be a waste of time. Instead of going to the restaurant or any other in the franchise, and instead of complaining, you would simply eat somewhere else and save the story of when you were poisoned and the restaurant said it would be ok for dinner parties, or a story you could tell your grandson, afterall, if you brought that up every time food was mentioned, i think everyone would get bored and frustrated, especially since the restaurant will take extra care not to poison their food.
almost an entirely analogy based argumentative post there, impressive
Actually that analogy works very well. There will still be others that will not see the similarities. . .
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You wouldn't understand
sorry if anyone finds this insulting, but fastforward that video to 0:40, and just listen to the people complaining about CU, and tell me you don't want to throw them off a building and tell them to get over it.
He sounds on the verge of tears,
AND
his complaints are about the game being ruined, not the fact that there was an expansion not long before.
(sorry for the cheap blow, but to me, everyone still complaining about it these days are just the same as the guys in that video)
(unless your quarrel is about the fact that they released the patch too soon after an expansion, as I can see why that would anger you)
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Hello!
If I had normally frequented that place and indeed this did happen in my town, I would then go back again. Maybe those that don't know those that ran the establishment would not return. However, it's a matter of faith and trust. In today's world something of this has not been taught to our youth nor has it been demonstrated by the media. Yes, I would return to that establishment knowing I enjoyed the food and never once was harmed by that food. Yes, i would question the owners but knowing that the owners are honorable people caught up in something they had little control over other than tasting the food before it went to the table themselves.
Sometimes you just have to go beyond the surface to see the roses. You have a good analogy and I'm afraid because people really do not practice faith in real terms, they would be too quick to judge especially when it was blown out of porportion by a media market that should be the bastion of honesty and faith.
So, I suppose I am one of the few that really would give that establishment a second chance where most would run in fear.
Well, maybe you are a better man than me, but my forgiveness or lack of it would be conditional.
Let's say that the owner of the resteraunt takes out a full page ad and hires a writer to elegantly say "whoa. We screwed up and we know it. We are very sorry that this occured. Here's what happened. Here's what we are doing to fix it. In addition, with regards to the person in question, we settled with him no questions asked. Further, if that person is willing to give us a secind chance, we offer him/her free dinner every week for a year on the night of his choice and with the guest of his choice. We still consider our establishment very much a part of this community, and we intend to continue to meet our obligations to it".
Well then. Instant forgiveness. No questions asked.
If instead, they clap thier hands over thier ears, pretend that nothing at all is wrong, and even DEFEND the action, well all that's gonna do is piss me off more.
Which, of course, is exactly the case with SOE.
You realize its still almost all Sigil employees that fixed the game, right?
Darkfall Travelogues!
You're always welcome to try throw me off a building since you are insinuating that i'm the same as those callers.Dale all you do is cheap blows. You didnt know there was an expansion called the trials of obi wan that was made during the cu and then rendered useless after the release of the nge, really you don't know anything of what went on, so how can you have a valid argument on the matter.... I left swg after the cu hit, but i guess you like selective reading. trials of obi wan was released about 6 weeks before the nge.
no he doesn't he is blind by sony love..it is sigil employees who are fixing vanguard, but he wants to give the credit to sony..i have even seen a post by glip the gnome recently on the status of vanguard.
Thanks for this post. It brought out of the woodwork many that were those empty haters with no support really to hold up their argument. Only shows the bandwagon effect I do believe. All in all there three or four of us that hung in there on this topic.
I play SoE games and have since 2004. I have dealt with GM's in-game and was tended to well within a normal timeframe for the number on that server, (within 45 mins). They were pleasant and really humorous and quick to give advice or hlep that was needed. I have actually called the SoE tech office and was helped in a kind and compassionate way. Never have i ever had any problems with this gaming corporation. Some may have problems and I am sorry you had them. I did not. In fact I haven't had any problems with any of the major companies i have dealt with; NCSoft, Blizzard, (those guys really are cool..so are they're gm's..I can actually do some roleplay with them
), Mythic back in my noob days with DAOC, (they were very helpful and gave encouragement when i was having difficulty understanding how to actually initiate the log-in...DUH!)
So, when i read all this "hate", I suppose I get a bit drawn out by all the supposed drama. Most of this stuff is so shallow and empty. As of this writing not one soul has come forth with any links that support their hatred.
Good night everyone...need my family time and my guild on WoW is raiding tonight.
/bows in honor of one and all!
All I want is the truth
Just gimme some truth
John Lennon
While I agree, you wouldn't eat there again, you would also not sit outside the door chanting 'i wish i was never poisoned' or in your case (no offense meant) 'they said my food was going to be fine, i don't mind that i was poisoned, just the fact that they said the food would be safe'
I think you would agree that doing so (yes, i realise the analogy is off by a long shot, but hopefully it gets across my point) would be a waste of time. Instead of going to the restaurant or any other in the franchise, and instead of complaining, you would simply eat somewhere else and save the story of when you were poisoned and the restaurant said it would be ok for dinner parties, or a story you could tell your grandson, afterall, if you brought that up every time food was mentioned, i think everyone would get bored and frustrated, especially since the restaurant will take extra care not to poison their food.
almost an entirely analogy based argumentative post there, impressive
Ha! Touche!
What I would do, however, if the subject came up on my hometown community forums, is to give my opinion on the matter. You make it sound like I am picketing SOE headquarters.
In a world of Enrons, sub-prime lending bandits and big oil, I think we all owe it to ourselves to hold all corporations to very high standards indeed. And as I said, I can be a forgiving guy... but half the problem is that SOE just clapped thier hands over thier ears and pretended that nothing was wrong.
Did you guys happen to read that blog from the Sigil dev that talked about what happened there after it was all over and SOE took VG? He said (paraphrased) , "You know what the worst part of all was? Brad wasn't even there as we got fired in the parking lot. No apologies."
There is a right way to do thing when you screw up, and a wrong way.
My father used to tell me, son, it's not how you fall down... it's how you get back up again.