I agree with the spirit of your post alyndale, but sometimes the reality of things can make things a bit unfair. If you get food poisoned at a resteraunt and big news is made of it, than that establishment is going to take a hit - no matter what. We can feel bad for the waitress or dishwasher who had nothing to do with it, but are you going to go back and eat there any time soon?
While I agree, you wouldn't eat there again, you would also not sit outside the door chanting 'i wish i was never poisoned' or in your case (no offense meant) 'they said my food was going to be fine, i don't mind that i was poisoned, just the fact that they said the food would be safe'
I think you would agree that doing so (yes, i realise the analogy is off by a long shot, but hopefully it gets across my point) would be a waste of time. Instead of going to the restaurant or any other in the franchise, and instead of complaining, you would simply eat somewhere else and save the story of when you were poisoned and the restaurant said it would be ok for dinner parties, or a story you could tell your grandson, afterall, if you brought that up every time food was mentioned, i think everyone would get bored and frustrated, especially since the restaurant will take extra care not to poison their food.
almost an entirely analogy based argumentative post there, impressive
Ha! Touche!
What I would do, however, if the subject came up on my hometown community forums, is to give my opinion on the matter. You make it sound like I am picketing SOE headquarters.
In a world of Enrons, sub-prime lending bandits and big oil, I think we all owe it to ourselves to hold all corporations to very high standards indeed. And as I said, I can be a forgiving guy... but half the problem is that SOE just clapped thier hands over thier ears and pretended that nothing was wrong.
Did you guys happen to read that blog from the Sigil dev that talked about what happened there after it was all over and SOE took it? He said (paraphrased) , You know what the worst part of all was? Brad wasn't even there as we got fired in the parking lot. No apologies."
There is a right way to do thing when you screw up, and a wrong way.
My father used to tell me, son, it's not how you fall down... it's how you get back up again.
I remember reading that blog, what a harsh way to deal with your employees, in the fucking carpark.
You're always welcome to try throw me off a building since you are insinuating that i'm the same as those callers.Dale all you do is cheap blows. You didnt know there was an expansion called the trials of obi wan that was made during the cu and then rendered useless after the release of the nge, really you don't know anything of what went on, so how can you have a valid argument on the matter.... I left swg after the cu hit, but i guess you like selective reading. trials of obi wan was released about 6 weeks before the nge.
that post was for light entertainment, and if you are indeed the same as them and 'find it hard to talk about it' (as they say in the video), then please find a tall building.
No, I didn't know, but neither did you tell me. all I do is cheap blows? I've been to polite to everyone but you on the most part. All you are doing on this post is listening to what other anti SOErs are saying, and claiming instantly that that is the reason you are annoyed also. King of the bandwagon jumper you should be called.
I've already said to another person I agree releasing an expansion little over a month before a patch like that is out of order (now it would seem it is you that likes selective reading?) , but I have also said countless times (you should probably read the restaurant analogy) that screaming at SOE and warding off new players is unfair, just because they made a mistake in the past.
sorry if anyone finds this insulting, but fastforward that video to 0:40, and just listen to the people complaining about CU, and tell me you don't want to throw them off a building and tell them to get over it. He sounds on the verge of tears, AND his complaints are about the game being ruined, not the fact that there was an expansion not long before.
(sorry for the cheap blow, but to me, everyone still complaining about it these days are just the same as the guys in that video) (unless your quarrel is about the fact that they released the patch too soon after an expansion, as I can see why that would anger you)
Thanks for this post. It brought out of the woodwork many that were those empty haters with no support really to hold up their argument. Only shows the bandwagon effect I do believe. All in all there three or four of us that hung in there on this topic.
I play SoE games and have since 2004. I have dealt with GM's in-game and was tended to well within a normal timeframe for the number on that server, (within 45 mins). They were pleasant and really humorous and quick to give advice or hlep that was needed. I have actually called the SoE tech office and was helped in a kind and compassionate way. Never have i ever had any problems with this gaming corporation. Some may have problems and I am sorry you had them. I did not. In fact I haven't had any problems with any of the major companies i have dealt with; NCSoft, Blizzard, (those guys really are cool..so are they're gm's..I can actually do some roleplay with them ), Mythic back in my noob days with DAOC, (they were very helpful and gave encouragement when i was having difficulty understanding how to actually initiate the log-in...DUH!)
So, when i read all this "hate", I suppose I get a bit drawn out by all the supposed drama. Most of this stuff is so shallow and empty. As of this writing not one soul has come forth with any links that support their hatred.
Good night everyone...need my family time and my guild on WoW is raiding tonight.
/bows in honor of one and all!
night I was lead to believe all WoW players were 12 year olds that talked in numbers, but evidently there are decent ones out there
I agree with the spirit of your post alyndale, but sometimes the reality of things can make things a bit unfair. If you get food poisoned at a resteraunt and big news is made of it, than that establishment is going to take a hit - no matter what. We can feel bad for the waitress or dishwasher who had nothing to do with it, but are you going to go back and eat there any time soon?
While I agree, you wouldn't eat there again, you would also not sit outside the door chanting 'i wish i was never poisoned' or in your case (no offense meant) 'they said my food was going to be fine, i don't mind that i was poisoned, just the fact that they said the food would be safe'
I think you would agree that doing so (yes, i realise the analogy is off by a long shot, but hopefully it gets across my point) would be a waste of time. Instead of going to the restaurant or any other in the franchise, and instead of complaining, you would simply eat somewhere else and save the story of when you were poisoned and the restaurant said it would be ok for dinner parties, or a story you could tell your grandson, afterall, if you brought that up every time food was mentioned, i think everyone would get bored and frustrated, especially since the restaurant will take extra care not to poison their food.
almost an entirely analogy based argumentative post there, impressive
Ha! Touche!
What I would do, however, if the subject came up on my hometown community forums, is to give my opinion on the matter. You make it sound like I am picketing SOE headquarters.
In a world of Enrons, sub-prime lending bandits and big oil, I think we all owe it to ourselves to hold all corporations to very high standards indeed. And as I said, I can be a forgiving guy... but half the problem is that SOE just clapped thier hands over thier ears and pretended that nothing was wrong.
Did you guys happen to read that blog from the Sigil dev that talked about what happened there after it was all over and SOE took it? He said (paraphrased) , You know what the worst part of all was? Brad wasn't even there as we got fired in the parking lot. No apologies."
There is a right way to do thing when you screw up, and a wrong way.
My father used to tell me, son, it's not how you fall down... it's how you get back up again.
Scrog I want to also thank you before i go. It's very healthy to debate if done in a civilized manner. You brought some very good points that I do agree with.
Yeah, I was one of the beta testers on Vanguard and was completely captivated by the guru Brad Quaid. I do remember that thread. It's been cross linked several times and I am sure, if you look you'll find in these archives somewhere.
You last statement that your dad told is well fitting for what I've really been trying to point out. No one that has had a shallow complaint has thought to find a link in support of their accusations. Big companies, no matter who they are make mistakes. Coca-Cola did away with their original recipe and tried something new based on a team of marketeers estimation that the time was right for that change. Coke's CEO was brought on board as a believer in this crap. It was an EPIC failure in the classic sense of the word. Pepsi-Cola jumped on it and profits sky-rocketed for them! Needless to say, the good folks in Atalanta made some personnel changes and brought back the original product. The rest is history, as we say.
I'm sure scrog, as a student of marketing you might have recalled that case. I lived it as a teenager, ! There are several other examples of team decisions that went astray, just as some pumpkins were made into chariots. An example of that was when Ford used the basic design pattern used on the low-budget and somewhat unpopular Falcon and made it one of their most popular cars in history, the Mustang!
Good night Scrog, you did a great job in these threads and no hard feelings at all!
/Bows with respect!
All I want is the truth Just gimme some truth John Lennon
Originally posted by ronan32 You're always welcome to try throw me off a building since you are insinuating that i'm the same as those callers.Dale all you do is cheap blows. You didnt know there was an expansion called the trials of obi wan that was made during the cu and then rendered useless after the release of the nge, really you don't know anything of what went on, so how can you have a valid argument on the matter.... I left swg after the cu hit, but i guess you like selective reading. trials of obi wan was released about 6 weeks before the nge.
that post was for light entertainment, and if you are indeed the same as them and 'find it hard to talk about it' (as they say in the video), then please find a tall building.
No, I didn't know, but neither did you tell me. all I do is cheap blows? I've been to polite to everyone but you on the most part. All you are doing on this post is listening to what other anti SOErs are saying, and claiming instantly that that is the reason you are annoyed also. King of the bandwagon jumper you should be called.
I've already said to another person I agree releasing an expansion little over a month before a patch like that is out of order (now it would seem it is you that likes selective reading?) , but I have also said countless times (you should probably read the restaurant analogy) that screaming at SOE and warding off new players is unfair, just because they made a mistake in the past.
no dale the reason why my points have been reiterated in other peoples posts is because they are facts. the same thing happen to everyone. You on the other hand have no idea what you are talking about because you were not there. I don't have to forgive sony for their mistakes, if they are mistakes why do they refuse to make a classic server pre-cu, they out right refuse to make a classic server, that tells me they're not acknowledging their mistakes.
im on an mmo forum, i give my opinions about mmo's on the forum..outside this forum i don't talk about it at all. If someone asks my opinion on sony online i will give my opinion.
You realize its still almost all Sigil employees that fixed the game, right?
no he doesn't he is blind by sony love..it is sigil employees who are fixing vanguard, but he wants to give the credit to sony..i have even seen a post by glip the gnome recently on the status of vanguard.
Have not read all post but I thougth this thread was about the endless whine about SOE.
Not if it is a new team from SOE that are fixing VG or if it is ex Sigil employes.
Thus... Then I think one really should divide the whinage aswell as I would think it was the SWG team of SOE that "screwed" up SWG not SOE. So uhm, yeah right.
But I think you have read the thread, something is hinting that.
Originally posted by Da1e that screaming at SOE and warding off new players is unfair, just because they made a mistake in the past.
Ok, so to wrap it up, we'll just have to agree to diagree at this point.
Simply changing a game is one thing. Eithics violations are quite another. Especially when they are not even acknowledged. SOE deserves every bit of bad press that they get, and more.
I'm proud if the company that I work for. It is important to me that they act in an ethical manner. Had I been an SOE employee during that time, I would have left the company over it.
Not that I am saying that you are weak and I am strong in the ethics department. Everyone is different. But... jeez... we read about big corporations screwing the average Joe practically every day. So, I guess I'm sick of it all overall while you are a somewhat more tolerant person.
I guess you could say that I'm somewhat stubborn and intolerant when issues of ethics are at hand. Consumers must stand together and show that such things are intolerable... because not many others are looking out for us.
I agree with the spirit of your post alyndale, but sometimes the reality of things can make things a bit unfair. If you get food poisoned at a resteraunt and big news is made of it, than that establishment is going to take a hit - no matter what. We can feel bad for the waitress or dishwasher who had nothing to do with it, but are you going to go back and eat there any time soon?
While I agree, you wouldn't eat there again, you would also not sit outside the door chanting 'i wish i was never poisoned' or in your case (no offense meant) 'they said my food was going to be fine, i don't mind that i was poisoned, just the fact that they said the food would be safe'
I think you would agree that doing so (yes, i realise the analogy is off by a long shot, but hopefully it gets across my point) would be a waste of time. Instead of going to the restaurant or any other in the franchise, and instead of complaining, you would simply eat somewhere else and save the story of when you were poisoned and the restaurant said it would be ok for dinner parties, or a story you could tell your grandson, afterall, if you brought that up every time food was mentioned, i think everyone would get bored and frustrated, especially since the restaurant will take extra care not to poison their food.
almost an entirely analogy based argumentative post there, impressive
Ha! Touche!
What I would do, however, if the subject came up on my hometown community forums, is to give my opinion on the matter. You make it sound like I am picketing SOE headquarters.
In a world of Enrons, sub-prime lending bandits and big oil, I think we all owe it to ourselves to hold all corporations to very high standards indeed. And as I said, I can be a forgiving guy... but half the problem is that SOE just clapped thier hands over thier ears and pretended that nothing was wrong.
Did you guys happen to read that blog from the Sigil dev that talked about what happened there after it was all over and SOE took VG? He said (paraphrased) , "You know what the worst part of all was? Brad wasn't even there as we got fired in the parking lot. No apologies."
There is a right way to do thing when you screw up, and a wrong way.
My father used to tell me, son, it's not how you fall down... it's how you get back up again.
haha I see your point, you are not picketing the lines of SOE headquarters I admit =p
But yeah, if the forum opened you should definately post your opinion, but flip the situation. If someone else had been poisoned, and no-one else in 2 years, and they constantly complained on the forum, wouldn't you get frustrated in them? Sure you could see their point, but would you want to constantly listen to it? if you were asking a question on the menu, would you like it if they hijacked your thread spreading 'hate' about the restaurant?
yeah, i guess so,
but BATMAN begins says (paraphrase, i can't remember the quote) why do we fall? so we can pick ourselves up stronger.
I agree with the spirit of your post alyndale, but sometimes the reality of things can make things a bit unfair. If you get food poisoned at a resteraunt and big news is made of it, than that establishment is going to take a hit - no matter what. We can feel bad for the waitress or dishwasher who had nothing to do with it, but are you going to go back and eat there any time soon?
While I agree, you wouldn't eat there again, you would also not sit outside the door chanting 'i wish i was never poisoned' or in your case (no offense meant) 'they said my food was going to be fine, i don't mind that i was poisoned, just the fact that they said the food would be safe'
I think you would agree that doing so (yes, i realise the analogy is off by a long shot, but hopefully it gets across my point) would be a waste of time. Instead of going to the restaurant or any other in the franchise, and instead of complaining, you would simply eat somewhere else and save the story of when you were poisoned and the restaurant said it would be ok for dinner parties, or a story you could tell your grandson, afterall, if you brought that up every time food was mentioned, i think everyone would get bored and frustrated, especially since the restaurant will take extra care not to poison their food.
almost an entirely analogy based argumentative post there, impressive
Ha! Touche!
What I would do, however, if the subject came up on my hometown community forums, is to give my opinion on the matter. You make it sound like I am picketing SOE headquarters.
In a world of Enrons, sub-prime lending bandits and big oil, I think we all owe it to ourselves to hold all corporations to very high standards indeed. And as I said, I can be a forgiving guy... but half the problem is that SOE just clapped thier hands over thier ears and pretended that nothing was wrong.
Did you guys happen to read that blog from the Sigil dev that talked about what happened there after it was all over and SOE took VG? He said (paraphrased) , "You know what the worst part of all was? Brad wasn't even there as we got fired in the parking lot. No apologies."
There is a right way to do thing when you screw up, and a wrong way.
My father used to tell me, son, it's not how you fall down... it's how you get back up again.
haha I see your point, you are not picketing the lines of SOE headquarters I admit =p
But yeah, if the forum opened you should definately post your opinion, but flip the situation. If someone else had been poisoned, and no-one else in 2 years, and they constantly complained on the forum, wouldn't you get frustrated in them? Sure you could see their point, but would you want to constantly listen to it? if you were asking a question on the menu, would you like it if they hijacked your thread spreading 'hate' about the restaurant?
yeah, i guess so,
but BATMAN begins says (paraphrase, i can't remember the quote) why do we fall? so we can pick ourselves up stronger.
or something
As I said earlier, that would depend on the actions of the resteraunt post mistake. If they never try to make things right and instead pretend that nothing was wrong, then they deserve a good bashing. If they do the right thing... no problem. In that case continued bashing would be stupid indeed. But then, SOE has never done the right thing with regards to this situation. Thus, in my mind, continued negative press in any form is more than justified.
Again I'd just like to reiterate that SOE did NOTHING for Vanguard. What they did was push the game out before it was ready, leading in a catastrophic launch and an unhealthy game for almost a year.
And now, the game is finally back on track, and you know who did it? SIGIL. The same Sigil developers are the people who fixed the game.
Originally posted by Da1e that screaming at SOE and warding off new players is unfair, just because they made a mistake in the past.
Ok, so to wrap it up, we'll just have to agree to diagree at this point.
Simply changing a game is one thing. Eithics violations are quite another. Especially when they are not even acknowledged. SOE deserves every bit of bad press that they get, and more.
I'm proud if the company that I work for. It is important to me that they act in an ethical manner. Had I been an SOE employee during that time, I would have left the company over it.
Not that I am saying that you are weak and I am strong in the ethics department. Everyone is different. But... jeez... we read about big corporations screwing the average Joe practically every day. So, I guess I'm sick of it all overall while you are a somewhat more tolerant person.
I guess you could say that I'm somewhat stubborn and intolerant when issues of ethics are at hand. Consumers must stand together and show that such things are intolerable... because not many others are looking out for us.
yeahh very true. But when it comes to ethics, there are much bigger offendors, nike being one of them, but (i'm just guessing) you wouldn't have a problem with buying nike products? If that's the case then you may want to rethink your ethics
but if you avoid big companies like mcdonalds, primark, nike etc for their unethical treatment of staff, then you are truly a good man
this wasn't meant to be a dig, but just to put it into perspective, yes, they were fired 'in a carpark' *gasp*, but at the end of the day they're going to get well paid jobs again anyway, but people in sweatshops in vietnam are beaten while working... it kind of makes me think what SOE do isn't so bad lol.
don't worry I see you point, and yeah, what they did is wrong, but i just don't like anti SOErs taking over my threads telling me i shouldn't be playing a specific game beacuse of it being SOE
As I said earlier, that would depend on the actions of the resteraunt post mistake. If they never try to make things right and instead pretend that nothing was wrong, then they deserve a good bashing. If they do the right thing... no problem. In that case continued bashing would be stupid indeed. But then, SOE has never done the right thing with regards to this situation. Thus, in my mind, continued negative press in any form is more than justified.
regarding the expansions at unethical points, yeah, but MANY of the bashers are simply angry at their favourite game being changed. Do you honestly think they should still be bashing SOE?
no dale the reason why my points have been reiterated in other peoples posts is because they are facts. the same thing happen to everyone. You on the other hand have no idea what you are talking about because you were not there. I don't have to forgive sony for their mistakes, if they are mistakes why do they refuse to make a classic server pre-cu, they out right refuse to make a classic server, that tells me they're not acknowledging their mistakes. im on an mmo forum, i give my opinions about mmo's on the forum..outside this forum i don't talk about it at all. If someone asks my opinion on sony online i will give my opinion.
please use my user name rather than my real name, i'm a little creeped out as it makes me think you think you know me....
it's not your points reiterated in other posts, its the other way around. people make good points, then you just say exactly the same thing after as if you've made some breakthrough. I don't know what im talking about beacuse i wasn't there? ok that's severely flawed. Do you know about the history of your country? how? you weren't there? oh, because people are able to tell other people.
Quick question, why are YOU annoyed with SOE ronan32? ethical reasons? they ruined your game? please explain exactly why you have a personal vendetta against SOE.
Well it is hard to know all, but if I find a thing I don't like, yeah. I'll drop it in a heartbeat, regardless of how much I may like my Levis.
I don't agree with people still bashing SOE over the changes themselves. Actually, from what I've read, most of the things that they tried had a valid and understandable reason for them. It's simply that they misjudged the reaction of the player base. I read a blog by one dev who admitted that SOE had now learned that you should always "dance with the girl that brung ya". Good for them in that regard.
For me it's not about the game. It's about big corporations thinking they can do whatever they want to little people and get away with it. And darn if that doesn't seem to be the case here. I hate *that*, not the changes.
I actually don't care for the mmogs around right now. I love the genre, but its only catering to one mindset at the moment. I can't blame all that on Sony.
I don't know you and very glad for that ....your the one with my name in your sig, you give a childish response to every post i make, filled with insults, and you have never given a decent counter point to any thing i have said, all you can do is call me a monkey, put my name in your sig and call me creepy..your acting like a child...why should i explain anything to you when you go out of your way to put down anything i say..i was the 3rd person to post on your sony love thread yet you say i copied what everyone else siad. Forget it man.
if you tell me why you don't like SOE I will take your name out of my sig. It's hard to talk to you if i don't know why you don't like SOE. I may even apologize if I deem it necessary.
well, it would seem we have come to some form of understand, but if i see you posting any anti SOE propaganda on my threads I will find you
(joke, but please don't haha, save it for the 'official we are unhappy about soe' forum, if any) I hope you can overcome your distaste for SOE's previous idiocy and give Vanguard a try after August (that's when the free trial is out). Nice 'talking' to you !
You too!
I've heard some good things about VG lately. I was there at launch and was disappointed before SOE even came on the scene, but never say never as they say.
well, it would seem we have come to some form of understand, but if i see you posting any anti SOE propaganda on my threads I will find you
(joke, but please don't haha, save it for the 'official we are unhappy about soe' forum, if any) I hope you can overcome your distaste for SOE's previous idiocy and give Vanguard a try after August (that's when the free trial is out). Nice 'talking' to you !
You too!
I've heard some good things about VG lately. I was there at launch and was disappointed before SOE even came on the scene, but never say never as they say.
At least keep yourself posted,
let's just hope other cliches like 'old habits die hard' and 'ones a liar always a liar' aren't apparent to SOE
hope to see you around these forums,
and if you want I have a buddy key? I was going to use it on my account but I realised you can't use 2 on one account...duh!
But yeah, pretty soon buddy keys will be useless. may as well give it away to someone. It's yours if you want it, courtesy of the kind people at SOE =p
nevermind ronan32. I just went back to the beginning of these posts, you're basically annoyed because your character was gone. No wonder you were so eager to leave this discussion : )
I don't know you and very glad for that ....your the one with my name in your sig, you give a childish response to every post i make, filled with insults, and you have never given a decent counter point to any thing i have said, all you can do is call me a monkey, put my name in your sig and call me creepy..your acting like a child...why should i explain anything to you when you go out of your way to put down anything i say..i was the 3rd person to post on your sony love thread yet you say i copied what everyone else siad. Forget it man.
if you tell me why you don't like SOE I will take your name out of my sig. It's hard to talk to you if i don't know why you don't like SOE. I may even apologize if I deem it necessary.
I don't care if you keep my name in your sig, i'm not offended by it. It's childish on your part.
sony changed swg to be more like wow because they saw how successful wow was and wanted a piece of that.
They said changes were made based on feedback from players.
star wars galaxies was a very successful mmo and the servers were packed, the nge hit and everyone left, yet sony still wont admit that the nge was a mistake and even though people have petitioned for a classic server they have refused to implement it.
they released an expansion pack with pre-nge features that would be made useless six weeks later, when the nge was released....why would they go ahead and release an expansion pack knowing fully well that the expansion would be no good in 6 weeks time because of the new game enhancements..because they wanted the money.
they don't care about their customers all they want is money
they forced sigil to release vanguard early because they didnt want to fund the beta any longer and wanted to reap the rewards. the game was released unfinished.
i beta tested vanguard, and the testers pleaded on the forums for the release to be pushed back..sony didnt listen
Thank you very much for your offer it is much appreciated, Da1e. I'm mostly just a lurker here, as I said I'm not too happy with the offerings right now. And niether is the rest of my modestly-sized guild, so we've decided to withdraw for now. Instead one of us has hosted a server and we are now playing a private NWN shard. The module is a large persistent world called The World of Rhun. Actually not too bad so far. We've only been in about a week.
I'll still keep an eye on things here though. Hope springs eternal I guess.
I don't care if you keep my name in your sig, i'm not offended by it. It's childish on your part. sony changed swg to be more like wow because they saw how successful wow was and wanted a piece of that. They said changes were made based on feedback from players. star wars galaxies was a very successful mmo and the servers were packed, the nge hit and everyone left, yet sony still wont admit that the nge was a mistake and even though people have petitioned for a classic server they have refused to implement it. they released an expansion pack with pre-nge features that would be made useless six weeks later, when the nge was released....why would they go ahead and release an expansion pack knowing fully well that the expansion would be no good in 6 weeks time because of the new game enhancements..because they wanted the money. they don't care about their customers all they want is money they forced sigil to release vanguard early because they didnt want to fund the beta any longer and wanted to reap the rewards. the game was released unfinished. i beta tested vanguard, and the testers pleaded on the forums for the release to be pushed back..sony didnt listen
that's just a summary of all the points that have been made throughout this post...
making a pre CU server...they refused....THAT is why you are annoyed at them??
I can tell you are simply annoyed because your game was ruined and you want your game back.
I read that video you linked on youtube, I think the changes look logical and indeed clever. they actually said they took feedback from players that had quit and asked them why they had quit. It just seems some elitests just can't handle change.
I have nothing more to say to you, you said I have no good counterarguments, but i just looked through the entire thread, you seriously haven't made one point. You didn't even make it clear why you don't like SOE, you've just pointed out all of its bad points, which are obviously irrelevant to you. If you cared about soe not caring about customers, and if you were truly annoyed with the company for a real reason, then you wouldn't have played VG, especially this month in the rerelease.
Lol! Thank you very much for your offer it is much appreciated, Da1e. I'm mostly just a lurker here, as I said I'm not too happy with the offerings right now. And niether is the rest of my modestly-sized guild, so we've decided to withdraw for now. Instead one of us has hosted a server and we are now playing a private NWN shard. The module is a large persistent world called The World of Rhun. Actually not too bad so far. We've only been in about a week. I'll still keep an eye on things here though. Hope springs eternal I guess. See you around. I'm off to NWN!
ahh sounds good, always fun to do a private server with friends (apart from the community I guess)
I don't care if you keep my name in your sig, i'm not offended by it. It's childish on your part. sony changed swg to be more like wow because they saw how successful wow was and wanted a piece of that. They said changes were made based on feedback from players. star wars galaxies was a very successful mmo and the servers were packed, the nge hit and everyone left, yet sony still wont admit that the nge was a mistake and even though people have petitioned for a classic server they have refused to implement it. they released an expansion pack with pre-nge features that would be made useless six weeks later, when the nge was released....why would they go ahead and release an expansion pack knowing fully well that the expansion would be no good in 6 weeks time because of the new game enhancements..because they wanted the money. they don't care about their customers all they want is money they forced sigil to release vanguard early because they didnt want to fund the beta any longer and wanted to reap the rewards. the game was released unfinished. i beta tested vanguard, and the testers pleaded on the forums for the release to be pushed back..sony didnt listen
that's just a summary of all the points that have been made throughout this post...
making a pre CU server...they refused....THAT is why you are annoyed at them??
I can tell you are simply annoyed because your game was ruined and you want your game back.
I read that video you linked on youtube, I think the changes look logical and indeed clever. they actually said they took feedback from players that had quit and asked them why they had quit. It just seems some elitests just can't handle change.
I have nothing more to say to you, you said I have no good counterarguments, but i just looked through the entire thread, you seriously haven't made one point. You didn't even make it clear why you don't like SOE, you've just pointed out all of its bad points, which are obviously irrelevant to you. If you cared about soe not caring about customers, and if you were truly annoyed with the company for a real reason, then you wouldn't have played VG, especially this month in the rerelease.
end.
the reason why the points i have made are the same as others have made is because they are the truth..how many ways can you tell the truth.That's like saying someone who wrote about the world war was just copying someone else's opinion....this just proves my point that you cant come up with a counter argument because all you can do is make childish remarks and say tjings like "i'm not even acknowledging your posts" and make it seem like everyones point is valid except mine...i obviously got to you in some way and your reaction is to try defame my points, how long have you played vanguard..a week?
please tell me why you think sony are worth defending? is it because you will have no one to play with in vanguard awwww poor baby..vanguard was supposed to be released by mircosoft..microsoft didn't like sigils vision and sony bought the publishing rights to vanguard..they released it too early and thats the reason why the servers are empty
what do i have to lose from playing vanguard for free?
Comments
While I agree, you wouldn't eat there again, you would also not sit outside the door chanting 'i wish i was never poisoned' or in your case (no offense meant) 'they said my food was going to be fine, i don't mind that i was poisoned, just the fact that they said the food would be safe'
I think you would agree that doing so (yes, i realise the analogy is off by a long shot, but hopefully it gets across my point) would be a waste of time. Instead of going to the restaurant or any other in the franchise, and instead of complaining, you would simply eat somewhere else and save the story of when you were poisoned and the restaurant said it would be ok for dinner parties, or a story you could tell your grandson, afterall, if you brought that up every time food was mentioned, i think everyone would get bored and frustrated, especially since the restaurant will take extra care not to poison their food.
almost an entirely analogy based argumentative post there, impressive
Ha! Touche!
What I would do, however, if the subject came up on my hometown community forums, is to give my opinion on the matter. You make it sound like I am picketing SOE headquarters.
In a world of Enrons, sub-prime lending bandits and big oil, I think we all owe it to ourselves to hold all corporations to very high standards indeed. And as I said, I can be a forgiving guy... but half the problem is that SOE just clapped thier hands over thier ears and pretended that nothing was wrong.
Did you guys happen to read that blog from the Sigil dev that talked about what happened there after it was all over and SOE took it? He said (paraphrased) , You know what the worst part of all was? Brad wasn't even there as we got fired in the parking lot. No apologies."
There is a right way to do thing when you screw up, and a wrong way.
My father used to tell me, son, it's not how you fall down... it's how you get back up again.
I remember reading that blog, what a harsh way to deal with your employees, in the fucking carpark.
that post was for light entertainment, and if you are indeed the same as them and 'find it hard to talk about it' (as they say in the video), then please find a tall building.
No, I didn't know, but neither did you tell me. all I do is cheap blows? I've been to polite to everyone but you on the most part. All you are doing on this post is listening to what other anti SOErs are saying, and claiming instantly that that is the reason you are annoyed also. King of the bandwagon jumper you should be called.
I've already said to another person I agree releasing an expansion little over a month before a patch like that is out of order (now it would seem it is you that likes selective reading?) , but I have also said countless times (you should probably read the restaurant analogy) that screaming at SOE and warding off new players is unfair, just because they made a mistake in the past.
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Hello!
Thanks for this post. It brought out of the woodwork many that were those empty haters with no support really to hold up their argument. Only shows the bandwagon effect I do believe. All in all there three or four of us that hung in there on this topic.
I play SoE games and have since 2004. I have dealt with GM's in-game and was tended to well within a normal timeframe for the number on that server, (within 45 mins). They were pleasant and really humorous and quick to give advice or hlep that was needed. I have actually called the SoE tech office and was helped in a kind and compassionate way. Never have i ever had any problems with this gaming corporation. Some may have problems and I am sorry you had them. I did not. In fact I haven't had any problems with any of the major companies i have dealt with; NCSoft, Blizzard, (those guys really are cool..so are they're gm's..I can actually do some roleplay with them ), Mythic back in my noob days with DAOC, (they were very helpful and gave encouragement when i was having difficulty understanding how to actually initiate the log-in...DUH!)
So, when i read all this "hate", I suppose I get a bit drawn out by all the supposed drama. Most of this stuff is so shallow and empty. As of this writing not one soul has come forth with any links that support their hatred.
Good night everyone...need my family time and my guild on WoW is raiding tonight.
/bows in honor of one and all!
night I was lead to believe all WoW players were 12 year olds that talked in numbers, but evidently there are decent ones out there
(a joke)
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Hello!
While I agree, you wouldn't eat there again, you would also not sit outside the door chanting 'i wish i was never poisoned' or in your case (no offense meant) 'they said my food was going to be fine, i don't mind that i was poisoned, just the fact that they said the food would be safe'
I think you would agree that doing so (yes, i realise the analogy is off by a long shot, but hopefully it gets across my point) would be a waste of time. Instead of going to the restaurant or any other in the franchise, and instead of complaining, you would simply eat somewhere else and save the story of when you were poisoned and the restaurant said it would be ok for dinner parties, or a story you could tell your grandson, afterall, if you brought that up every time food was mentioned, i think everyone would get bored and frustrated, especially since the restaurant will take extra care not to poison their food.
almost an entirely analogy based argumentative post there, impressive
Ha! Touche!
What I would do, however, if the subject came up on my hometown community forums, is to give my opinion on the matter. You make it sound like I am picketing SOE headquarters.
In a world of Enrons, sub-prime lending bandits and big oil, I think we all owe it to ourselves to hold all corporations to very high standards indeed. And as I said, I can be a forgiving guy... but half the problem is that SOE just clapped thier hands over thier ears and pretended that nothing was wrong.
Did you guys happen to read that blog from the Sigil dev that talked about what happened there after it was all over and SOE took it? He said (paraphrased) , You know what the worst part of all was? Brad wasn't even there as we got fired in the parking lot. No apologies."
There is a right way to do thing when you screw up, and a wrong way.
My father used to tell me, son, it's not how you fall down... it's how you get back up again.
Scrog I want to also thank you before i go. It's very healthy to debate if done in a civilized manner. You brought some very good points that I do agree with.
Yeah, I was one of the beta testers on Vanguard and was completely captivated by the guru Brad Quaid. I do remember that thread. It's been cross linked several times and I am sure, if you look you'll find in these archives somewhere.
You last statement that your dad told is well fitting for what I've really been trying to point out. No one that has had a shallow complaint has thought to find a link in support of their accusations. Big companies, no matter who they are make mistakes. Coca-Cola did away with their original recipe and tried something new based on a team of marketeers estimation that the time was right for that change. Coke's CEO was brought on board as a believer in this crap. It was an EPIC failure in the classic sense of the word. Pepsi-Cola jumped on it and profits sky-rocketed for them! Needless to say, the good folks in Atalanta made some personnel changes and brought back the original product. The rest is history, as we say.
I'm sure scrog, as a student of marketing you might have recalled that case. I lived it as a teenager, ! There are several other examples of team decisions that went astray, just as some pumpkins were made into chariots. An example of that was when Ford used the basic design pattern used on the low-budget and somewhat unpopular Falcon and made it one of their most popular cars in history, the Mustang!
Good night Scrog, you did a great job in these threads and no hard feelings at all!
/Bows with respect!
All I want is the truth
Just gimme some truth
John Lennon
that post was for light entertainment, and if you are indeed the same as them and 'find it hard to talk about it' (as they say in the video), then please find a tall building.
No, I didn't know, but neither did you tell me. all I do is cheap blows? I've been to polite to everyone but you on the most part. All you are doing on this post is listening to what other anti SOErs are saying, and claiming instantly that that is the reason you are annoyed also. King of the bandwagon jumper you should be called.
I've already said to another person I agree releasing an expansion little over a month before a patch like that is out of order (now it would seem it is you that likes selective reading?) , but I have also said countless times (you should probably read the restaurant analogy) that screaming at SOE and warding off new players is unfair, just because they made a mistake in the past.
no dale the reason why my points have been reiterated in other peoples posts is because they are facts. the same thing happen to everyone. You on the other hand have no idea what you are talking about because you were not there. I don't have to forgive sony for their mistakes, if they are mistakes why do they refuse to make a classic server pre-cu, they out right refuse to make a classic server, that tells me they're not acknowledging their mistakes.
im on an mmo forum, i give my opinions about mmo's on the forum..outside this forum i don't talk about it at all. If someone asks my opinion on sony online i will give my opinion.
no he doesn't he is blind by sony love..it is sigil employees who are fixing vanguard, but he wants to give the credit to sony..i have even seen a post by glip the gnome recently on the status of vanguard.
Have not read all post but I thougth this thread was about the endless whine about SOE.
Not if it is a new team from SOE that are fixing VG or if it is ex Sigil employes.
Thus... Then I think one really should divide the whinage aswell as I would think it was the SWG team of SOE that "screwed" up SWG not SOE. So uhm, yeah right.
But I think you have read the thread, something is hinting that.
What is it about?
I'm so broke. I can't even pay attention.
"You have the right not to be killed"
Ok, so to wrap it up, we'll just have to agree to diagree at this point.
Simply changing a game is one thing. Eithics violations are quite another. Especially when they are not even acknowledged. SOE deserves every bit of bad press that they get, and more.
I'm proud if the company that I work for. It is important to me that they act in an ethical manner. Had I been an SOE employee during that time, I would have left the company over it.
Not that I am saying that you are weak and I am strong in the ethics department. Everyone is different. But... jeez... we read about big corporations screwing the average Joe practically every day. So, I guess I'm sick of it all overall while you are a somewhat more tolerant person.
I guess you could say that I'm somewhat stubborn and intolerant when issues of ethics are at hand. Consumers must stand together and show that such things are intolerable... because not many others are looking out for us.
While I agree, you wouldn't eat there again, you would also not sit outside the door chanting 'i wish i was never poisoned' or in your case (no offense meant) 'they said my food was going to be fine, i don't mind that i was poisoned, just the fact that they said the food would be safe'
I think you would agree that doing so (yes, i realise the analogy is off by a long shot, but hopefully it gets across my point) would be a waste of time. Instead of going to the restaurant or any other in the franchise, and instead of complaining, you would simply eat somewhere else and save the story of when you were poisoned and the restaurant said it would be ok for dinner parties, or a story you could tell your grandson, afterall, if you brought that up every time food was mentioned, i think everyone would get bored and frustrated, especially since the restaurant will take extra care not to poison their food.
almost an entirely analogy based argumentative post there, impressive
Ha! Touche!
What I would do, however, if the subject came up on my hometown community forums, is to give my opinion on the matter. You make it sound like I am picketing SOE headquarters.
In a world of Enrons, sub-prime lending bandits and big oil, I think we all owe it to ourselves to hold all corporations to very high standards indeed. And as I said, I can be a forgiving guy... but half the problem is that SOE just clapped thier hands over thier ears and pretended that nothing was wrong.
Did you guys happen to read that blog from the Sigil dev that talked about what happened there after it was all over and SOE took VG? He said (paraphrased) , "You know what the worst part of all was? Brad wasn't even there as we got fired in the parking lot. No apologies."
There is a right way to do thing when you screw up, and a wrong way.
My father used to tell me, son, it's not how you fall down... it's how you get back up again.
haha I see your point, you are not picketing the lines of SOE headquarters I admit =p
But yeah, if the forum opened you should definately post your opinion, but flip the situation. If someone else had been poisoned, and no-one else in 2 years, and they constantly complained on the forum, wouldn't you get frustrated in them? Sure you could see their point, but would you want to constantly listen to it? if you were asking a question on the menu, would you like it if they hijacked your thread spreading 'hate' about the restaurant?
yeah, i guess so,
but BATMAN begins says (paraphrase, i can't remember the quote) why do we fall? so we can pick ourselves up stronger.
or something
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Hello!
While I agree, you wouldn't eat there again, you would also not sit outside the door chanting 'i wish i was never poisoned' or in your case (no offense meant) 'they said my food was going to be fine, i don't mind that i was poisoned, just the fact that they said the food would be safe'
I think you would agree that doing so (yes, i realise the analogy is off by a long shot, but hopefully it gets across my point) would be a waste of time. Instead of going to the restaurant or any other in the franchise, and instead of complaining, you would simply eat somewhere else and save the story of when you were poisoned and the restaurant said it would be ok for dinner parties, or a story you could tell your grandson, afterall, if you brought that up every time food was mentioned, i think everyone would get bored and frustrated, especially since the restaurant will take extra care not to poison their food.
almost an entirely analogy based argumentative post there, impressive
Ha! Touche!
What I would do, however, if the subject came up on my hometown community forums, is to give my opinion on the matter. You make it sound like I am picketing SOE headquarters.
In a world of Enrons, sub-prime lending bandits and big oil, I think we all owe it to ourselves to hold all corporations to very high standards indeed. And as I said, I can be a forgiving guy... but half the problem is that SOE just clapped thier hands over thier ears and pretended that nothing was wrong.
Did you guys happen to read that blog from the Sigil dev that talked about what happened there after it was all over and SOE took VG? He said (paraphrased) , "You know what the worst part of all was? Brad wasn't even there as we got fired in the parking lot. No apologies."
There is a right way to do thing when you screw up, and a wrong way.
My father used to tell me, son, it's not how you fall down... it's how you get back up again.
haha I see your point, you are not picketing the lines of SOE headquarters I admit =p
But yeah, if the forum opened you should definately post your opinion, but flip the situation. If someone else had been poisoned, and no-one else in 2 years, and they constantly complained on the forum, wouldn't you get frustrated in them? Sure you could see their point, but would you want to constantly listen to it? if you were asking a question on the menu, would you like it if they hijacked your thread spreading 'hate' about the restaurant?
yeah, i guess so,
but BATMAN begins says (paraphrase, i can't remember the quote) why do we fall? so we can pick ourselves up stronger.
or something
As I said earlier, that would depend on the actions of the resteraunt post mistake. If they never try to make things right and instead pretend that nothing was wrong, then they deserve a good bashing. If they do the right thing... no problem. In that case continued bashing would be stupid indeed. But then, SOE has never done the right thing with regards to this situation. Thus, in my mind, continued negative press in any form is more than justified.
Again I'd just like to reiterate that SOE did NOTHING for Vanguard. What they did was push the game out before it was ready, leading in a catastrophic launch and an unhealthy game for almost a year.
And now, the game is finally back on track, and you know who did it? SIGIL. The same Sigil developers are the people who fixed the game.
Darkfall Travelogues!
Ok, so to wrap it up, we'll just have to agree to diagree at this point.
Simply changing a game is one thing. Eithics violations are quite another. Especially when they are not even acknowledged. SOE deserves every bit of bad press that they get, and more.
I'm proud if the company that I work for. It is important to me that they act in an ethical manner. Had I been an SOE employee during that time, I would have left the company over it.
Not that I am saying that you are weak and I am strong in the ethics department. Everyone is different. But... jeez... we read about big corporations screwing the average Joe practically every day. So, I guess I'm sick of it all overall while you are a somewhat more tolerant person.
I guess you could say that I'm somewhat stubborn and intolerant when issues of ethics are at hand. Consumers must stand together and show that such things are intolerable... because not many others are looking out for us.
yeahh very true. But when it comes to ethics, there are much bigger offendors, nike being one of them, but (i'm just guessing) you wouldn't have a problem with buying nike products? If that's the case then you may want to rethink your ethics
but if you avoid big companies like mcdonalds, primark, nike etc for their unethical treatment of staff, then you are truly a good man
this wasn't meant to be a dig, but just to put it into perspective, yes, they were fired 'in a carpark' *gasp*, but at the end of the day they're going to get well paid jobs again anyway, but people in sweatshops in vietnam are beaten while working... it kind of makes me think what SOE do isn't so bad lol.
don't worry I see you point, and yeah, what they did is wrong, but i just don't like anti SOErs taking over my threads telling me i shouldn't be playing a specific game beacuse of it being SOE
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Hello!
regarding the expansions at unethical points, yeah, but MANY of the bashers are simply angry at their favourite game being changed. Do you honestly think they should still be bashing SOE?
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Hello!
please use my user name rather than my real name, i'm a little creeped out as it makes me think you think you know me....
it's not your points reiterated in other posts, its the other way around. people make good points, then you just say exactly the same thing after as if you've made some breakthrough. I don't know what im talking about beacuse i wasn't there? ok that's severely flawed. Do you know about the history of your country? how? you weren't there? oh, because people are able to tell other people.
Quick question, why are YOU annoyed with SOE ronan32? ethical reasons? they ruined your game? please explain exactly why you have a personal vendetta against SOE.
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Hello!
Well it is hard to know all, but if I find a thing I don't like, yeah. I'll drop it in a heartbeat, regardless of how much I may like my Levis.
I don't agree with people still bashing SOE over the changes themselves. Actually, from what I've read, most of the things that they tried had a valid and understandable reason for them. It's simply that they misjudged the reaction of the player base. I read a blog by one dev who admitted that SOE had now learned that you should always "dance with the girl that brung ya". Good for them in that regard.
For me it's not about the game. It's about big corporations thinking they can do whatever they want to little people and get away with it. And darn if that doesn't seem to be the case here. I hate *that*, not the changes.
I actually don't care for the mmogs around right now. I love the genre, but its only catering to one mindset at the moment. I can't blame all that on Sony.
To Scrog (not ronan32) :
Ahh, good to hear
well, it would seem we have come to some form of understand,
but if i see you posting any anti SOE propaganda on my threads I will find you
(joke, but please don't haha, save it for the 'official we are unhappy about soe' forum, if any)
I hope you can overcome your distaste for SOE's previous idiocy and give Vanguard a try after August (that's when the free trial is out).
Nice 'talking' to you !
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Hello!
if you tell me why you don't like SOE I will take your name out of my sig. It's hard to talk to you if i don't know why you don't like SOE. I may even apologize if I deem it necessary.
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Hello!
You too!
I've heard some good things about VG lately. I was there at launch and was disappointed before SOE even came on the scene, but never say never as they say.
You too!
I've heard some good things about VG lately. I was there at launch and was disappointed before SOE even came on the scene, but never say never as they say.
At least keep yourself posted,
let's just hope other cliches like 'old habits die hard' and 'ones a liar always a liar' aren't apparent to SOE
hope to see you around these forums,
and if you want I have a buddy key? I was going to use it on my account but I realised you can't use 2 on one account...duh!
But yeah, pretty soon buddy keys will be useless. may as well give it away to someone. It's yours if you want it, courtesy of the kind people at SOE =p
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nevermind ronan32. I just went back to the beginning of these posts, you're basically annoyed because your character was gone. No wonder you were so eager to leave this discussion : )
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if you tell me why you don't like SOE I will take your name out of my sig. It's hard to talk to you if i don't know why you don't like SOE. I may even apologize if I deem it necessary.
I don't care if you keep my name in your sig, i'm not offended by it. It's childish on your part.
sony changed swg to be more like wow because they saw how successful wow was and wanted a piece of that.
They said changes were made based on feedback from players.
star wars galaxies was a very successful mmo and the servers were packed, the nge hit and everyone left, yet sony still wont admit that the nge was a mistake and even though people have petitioned for a classic server they have refused to implement it.
they released an expansion pack with pre-nge features that would be made useless six weeks later, when the nge was released....why would they go ahead and release an expansion pack knowing fully well that the expansion would be no good in 6 weeks time because of the new game enhancements..because they wanted the money.
they don't care about their customers all they want is money
they forced sigil to release vanguard early because they didnt want to fund the beta any longer and wanted to reap the rewards. the game was released unfinished.
i beta tested vanguard, and the testers pleaded on the forums for the release to be pushed back..sony didnt listen
Lol!
Thank you very much for your offer it is much appreciated, Da1e. I'm mostly just a lurker here, as I said I'm not too happy with the offerings right now. And niether is the rest of my modestly-sized guild, so we've decided to withdraw for now. Instead one of us has hosted a server and we are now playing a private NWN shard. The module is a large persistent world called The World of Rhun. Actually not too bad so far. We've only been in about a week.
I'll still keep an eye on things here though. Hope springs eternal I guess.
See you around. I'm off to NWN!
that's just a summary of all the points that have been made throughout this post...
making a pre CU server...they refused....THAT is why you are annoyed at them??
I can tell you are simply annoyed because your game was ruined and you want your game back.
I read that video you linked on youtube, I think the changes look logical and indeed clever. they actually said they took feedback from players that had quit and asked them why they had quit. It just seems some elitests just can't handle change.
I have nothing more to say to you, you said I have no good counterarguments, but i just looked through the entire thread, you seriously haven't made one point. You didn't even make it clear why you don't like SOE, you've just pointed out all of its bad points, which are obviously irrelevant to you. If you cared about soe not caring about customers, and if you were truly annoyed with the company for a real reason, then you wouldn't have played VG, especially this month in the rerelease.
end.
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Hello!
ahh sounds good, always fun to do a private server with friends (apart from the community I guess)
have fun & see you around.
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Hello!
that's just a summary of all the points that have been made throughout this post...
making a pre CU server...they refused....THAT is why you are annoyed at them??
I can tell you are simply annoyed because your game was ruined and you want your game back.
I read that video you linked on youtube, I think the changes look logical and indeed clever. they actually said they took feedback from players that had quit and asked them why they had quit. It just seems some elitests just can't handle change.
I have nothing more to say to you, you said I have no good counterarguments, but i just looked through the entire thread, you seriously haven't made one point. You didn't even make it clear why you don't like SOE, you've just pointed out all of its bad points, which are obviously irrelevant to you. If you cared about soe not caring about customers, and if you were truly annoyed with the company for a real reason, then you wouldn't have played VG, especially this month in the rerelease.
end.
the reason why the points i have made are the same as others have made is because they are the truth..how many ways can you tell the truth.That's like saying someone who wrote about the world war was just copying someone else's opinion....this just proves my point that you cant come up with a counter argument because all you can do is make childish remarks and say tjings like "i'm not even acknowledging your posts" and make it seem like everyones point is valid except mine...i obviously got to you in some way and your reaction is to try defame my points, how long have you played vanguard..a week?
please tell me why you think sony are worth defending? is it because you will have no one to play with in vanguard awwww poor baby..vanguard was supposed to be released by mircosoft..microsoft didn't like sigils vision and sony bought the publishing rights to vanguard..they released it too early and thats the reason why the servers are empty
what do i have to lose from playing vanguard for free?
Whoah! I took a nap and this thread just gained 10 pages of flame...good job SOE, see what you made the players do!!!