To be completely honest I hope that DarkFall is all Tasos and Aventurine profess it to be. I'd kill for a solid game with the concepts this one is supposed to have. Yes I've been knocking the game of late but all in the name of a little fun and good natured teasing but I do hope it's a success. I'd be crazy not to.
The sad truth of this whole matter is that Tasos has hyped the game for the last 7 years and we've all been holding our breath in anticipation and the frustration and lack of oxygen is finally getting the better of most of us. All I can say at this point is this: We've come this far and endured the delays and what we've considered to be broken promises from the Devs there and lo and behold!, yet another delay and more confusing rhetoric from Tasos. I suggesyt that we all take one last deep breath and see what happens between the 22nd of this month and the 25th of next. If they actually do what they say they are going to do this time we'll have proof of it soon enough. If not... well, then I say, get out your torches and lets go see Tasos in person.
Until then I also suggest lightening up and thickening your skins and realize that teasing is just another form of stress relief and should be taken with a light heart and a good comeback.
Of course, because the whole point of this site is to hype up unfinished games with barren worlds, features turned off and crappy animations, as well as, praise shady development companies and a guy named Tasos.
cause thats what's being done This game was actually under the radar with all its fans until the WoWers, AoCers, and Warers games didn't work out and decided to take it out on darkfall for some reason. Never could figure that one out. But hey, whatever floats your boat.
You really have no clue do you? The fanbois like you have been hyping this game since well before sept 2007. The "Darkfall is coming!" made back then is what originally got me interested. So please cut with the crap about how its the doubters that are the ones voting/hyping Dakfall best game of 2008.
Sinply put you have no facts to back up your arguement and are instead resorting to attacks on those that do have facts to try and protect the game rather then face the truth of what we currently do know (as fact).
I dont know if mmorpg.com has asked about a sneak peek for Darkfall but with the latest doings, it seems time to demand it. For our sake, after all there have been a few scams in the past few years. mmo players are growing tired of indie developers asking for pre-order money then come launch day the game is 95% unfinished. It would sure be nice if mmorpg.com could step in here and protect the community from a possible scam here with Darkfall. At this point, all we've seen is a graniy edited video from a yr ago. There isnt much proof that this game even exists. And there are beta leaks that suggest the game is empty like Dark and Light was. My suggestion, mmorpg.com contacts Tasos and asks for a beta key to see for themselves if the game exists and delivers on its promises. A review is due us BEFORE we start giving an unproven and unknown developer money for an MMO we dont even know works. If Tasos refuses, pull Darkfall off the mmorpg.com list and post an article warning the community of a potential scam. If Tasos and Adventurine want to be taken seriously they will comply. If the game is just another scam where they grab all the money they can before launch day and then run for the hills, then it should be easy for mmorpg.com to find out in beta scams only hurt the industry. If this is another D&L players are going to be very leary of ever pre-ordering again. Plus it makes other indy devs look bad. Please look into this and confirm the game exists and works or let us know otherwise
Just dont' preorder it, and dont' buy it till the NDA is dropped. Problem solved.
just to reitterat: All we need is someone with credentials to spend a few days playing to prove the game exists, some features at least are in the game, its stable, and worth paying for. That cant possible be considered an unreasonable request
So you want a third party website to attempt to pressure a developer into meeting your demands? That's totally unethical. If they do not want to maintain a DF forum on this then that is fine, just remove it. However going to a developer and demanding beta access whilst threatening to remove their forum and post defamatory comments if they don't agree is completely beyond what is reasonable, if they did this I think that this site would come under an awful lot scrutiny from the general gaming world. This website is not here to police developers if you think a scam is being perputrated you should contact the real police. If you think it is not real scam and just that a shoddy product will be sold and you are going to buy ut perhaps you need policing from yourself?
Yes I do want them to pressure for a look. Its not unethical either.
mmorpg.com is a website that caters to the MMO fans. It represents MMO's that have launched and will launch. They owe it to us to properly list legitimate games that arent just a scam to steal money from us. It reflects badly on the industry but mmorpg.com as well.
mmorpg.com lists Darkfall as an MMO soon to launch. The least they can (especially considering all of the ripoffs lately) is to ask for proof the game exists and works as promised.
Its not unreasonable or unethical to ask for a beta key to review the game. And since Adventurine has offered little proof the game actually exists why should mmorpg.com continue to help promote a possible fraud ? Listing them here legitimizes them.
Dark and Light, I hate to bring them up again but they had released far more info than Tasos has. They had videos, tons of screenshots, but like Darkfall they were missing a legit review. We know why they didnt allow a review today dont we.
McQuaid was just like Tasos with Vanguard. He took on a semi-god status with the fanbois. Whatever he said was considered the holy scripture and couldnt possibly be false. He was attacked and criticised by many but the fanbois defended him with vicious ferver. The critics just wanted proof the game was as advertised but were attacked by McQuad's defenders. McQuaid was a total fraud. He made his cash and then sold the game to the devil (SOE) which was ironic considering the game was marketed to the fanbois as the anti-SOE true sequel to EQ.
Since history hasnt been kind, we should ignore that and allow another developer to rob us ? Its a simple request, show us the goods.
Originally posted by admriker4 Its not unreasonable or unethical to ask for a beta key to review the game. And since Adventurine has offered little proof the game actually exists why should mmorpg.com continue to help promote a possible fraud ? Listing them here legitimizes them.
I would say it is unethical to threaten the devs with reprisals if they do not meet their demands. It would better for you to just ask them to remove the forum.
If they started behaving like that it would not surprise me if this site ended up on media blacklist with all developers.
So you want a third party website to attempt to pressure a developer into meeting your demands? That's totally unethical.
What's so unethical about a popular MMO website getting access to a highly anticipated game so they can either definitively prove that everything is on the level, or warn players of a potential danger?
Nothing about this game or this developer is making a damn bit of sense. It's not unreasonable or unethical to want real answers and real information, especially if people are going to be asked to start handing over money.
Let's look at things for a moment--
The beta testers? Totally unknown, and so small in number after all this time that there are next to no leaks at all. That isunheard of in a game with so much interest, and it's a red flag.
The videos and screenshots? Not enough information to go on. Remember-- Sigil showed Microsoft a bunch of videos, live demos, and screenshots and concept art for years to "prove" their progress on Vanguard, and they still got dumped by MS when development dragged on for too long and people started demanding to know where the money was going.
The change in stance on pre-orders? Not unexpected at all, but after so much spin and bullshit about how Aventurine hated pre-orders and they wanted nothing to do with them, all of a sudden a week before the initial launch date, they announce pre-orders? That's a red flag, and even folks on the official DF forums are taking a step back now.
The fact that now, a week before the launch date they'd been announcing, they admit that they need more testing, including stress tests, and that they're unable to even come close to meeting the demand for this game as far as server capacity, and after they'd spun a bunch of bullshit about this game being farther along and more advanced than any other MMO before them? HUGE red flag. Massive. If they're that far behind now, 1 week from the original release date they'd announced weeks ago, it's hard to believe they'll have it all up and running by Feb. 25th unless they REALLY burn the midnight oil between now and then and nothing goes wrong.
The solution for all these questions is simple. Give the media open and unrestricted access to the game and allow them to see the state of Darkfall for themselves, and allow them to tell people what's really going on.
Originally posted by Lidane What's so unethical about a popular MMO website getting access to a highly anticipated game so they can either definitively prove that everything is on the level, or warn players of a potential danger?
It's just not civilised behavour for a media outlet to go to another company and demand access to their product whilst make threats to publish defamitory comments and remove the forum if they refuse. If mmorpg.com does not trust this game then they should remove the forum. Using ultimatums and threats in order to get their stories as you are advocating, even if that is what the readers want, is clearly against the standards most people hold the media to.
If they want to write an article bashing the game - fine.
If they want to not cover game - fine.
Using coercion and threats in order to get stories - not fine
Originally posted by Blodpls It's just not civilised behavour for a media outlet to go to another company and demand access to their product whilst make threats to publish defamitory comments and remove the forum if they refuse. If mmorpg.com does not trust this game then they should remove the forum. Using ultimatums and threats in order to get their stories as you are advocating, even if that is what the readers want, is clearly against the standards most people hold the media to.
Unless I missed something, I haven't seen a damned thing from anyone on the MMORPG.com staff making demands towards Aventurine, or threatening to remove them from the site or anything like that. I don't know where you're getting any of that nonsense at all.
People are simply asking MMORPG to find a way to get access to Darkfall and/or Aventurine so that their fears of being scammed a la Dark and Light can be put to rest. That's not unethical or unreasonable at all. In fact, it's perfectly normal.
Originally posted by Lidane Unless I missed something, I haven't seen a damned thing from anyone on the MMORPG.com staff making demands towards Aventurine, or threatening to remove them from the site or anything like that. I don't know where you're getting any of that nonsense at all. People are simply asking MMORPG to find a way to get access to Darkfall and/or Aventurine so that their fears of being scammed a la Dark and Light can be put to rest. That's not unethical or unreasonable at all. In fact, it's perfectly normal.
"My suggestion, mmorpg.com contacts Tasos and asks for a beta key to see for themselves if the game exists and delivers on its promises. A review is due us BEFORE we start giving an unproven and unknown developer money for an MMO we dont even know works. If Tasos refuses, pull Darkfall off the mmorpg.com list and post an article warning the community of a potential scam."
Well seems to be what he is suggesting. Unless it is not his intention for mmorpg.com to inform the devs what will happen if they do not comply, in which case why does he think that this will get them a beta key?
Originally posted by Lidane What's so unethical about a popular MMO website getting access to a highly anticipated game so they can either definitively prove that everything is on the level, or warn players of a potential danger?
It's just not civilised behavour for a media outlet to go to another company and demand access to their product whilst make threats to publish defamitory comments and remove the forum if they refuse. If mmorpg.com does not trust this game then they should remove the forum. Using ultimatums and threats in order to get their stories as you are advocating, even if that is what the readers want, is clearly against the standards most people hold the media to.
If they want to write an article bashing the game - fine.
If they want to not cover game - fine.
Using coercion and threats in order to get stories - not fine
at the same time, I believe that it isn't really "civilised behavior" to refuse to release any OFFICIAL tangible, undoubtable evidence of and information about a quality game up to a week before you are supposed to Officially launch the game.
and it isn't "civilised behavior" to ask customers to pay you money for a product that they know absolutely nothing definitive about.
it is very, very odd that this game was a week out from Global launch, now a month out from Global launch due to the delay, and not a single credible North American media source has a definitive review, or a definitive preview of the Release Candidate of the game. Yet they are preparing to take people's money for "early access". Early access to what, exactly? That's the problem here, nobody except a scant few "elite" people know. The general public, who Aventurine is preparing to take money from, has no clue exactly what they are paying for and what state the product is in, besides vague and cryptic forum commentary.
that, my friend, is "unethical" and not "civilised behavior". and that is the root of the problem.
people are doubting that Aventurine is on the level, and in order to alleviate and supress that doubt, Aventurine needs to let someone like MMORPG.com or IGN.com, or PC Gamer in and let them see the product and write about it, in definitive detail.
Well seems to be what he is suggesting. Unless it is not his intention for mmorpg.com to inform the devs what will happen if they do not comply, in which case why does he think that this will get them a beta key?
One person's suggestion =/= MMORPG.com site policy. They're not the same thing.
Perhaps the OP is worded a bit harshly for your tastes, but his fears are not unreasonable. People have been scammed before, as Dark and Light proves, and it is natural for players to be wary now, especially if they're waiting for Darkfall and want to play it. No one wants to get burned again.
The OP isn't asking for the world. He's asking for this site to simply find a way to verify what Aventurine is claiming, and then tell the rest of us. What's so bad about that?
Nobody is making you buy this game. Nobody is making you hold your breath for its release either. Obviously, there are some things in this games development that raise flags. You should consider this when you buy the product. If you dont, its your fault.
Im definately not siding with Tasos here, but c'mon, can anyone actually STILL cry foul at this point? If you prematurely invest money in a product thats been in development for such a long period of time with no actual verification of its existence then I know some people in Ghana just looking for your investment money with 100% returns guaranteed, expect an email any day now.
And FYI, a couple years ago MMORPG.com responded to a petition in these forums to have Darkfall removed from the site. They explained that they DID in fact verify the existence of the Aventurine and that the company verified to them the game was still in developement. I distinctly remember this topic and the moderators response.
But, dont take their word for it. Just wait and see what happens. If you dont have any money invested you have no exposure to any deceit that clearly, at this stage, is a possibility. If your unwilling to wait and see, then ALL the fault lies squarely on you for being impatient.
Originally posted by Lidane What's so unethical about a popular MMO website getting access to a highly anticipated game so they can either definitively prove that everything is on the level, or warn players of a potential danger?
It's just not civilised behavour for a media outlet to go to another company and demand access to their product whilst make threats to publish defamitory comments and remove the forum if they refuse. If mmorpg.com does not trust this game then they should remove the forum. Using ultimatums and threats in order to get their stories as you are advocating, even if that is what the readers want, is clearly against the standards most people hold the media to.
If they want to write an article bashing the game - fine.
If they want to not cover game - fine.
Using coercion and threats in order to get stories - not fine
at the same time, I believe that it isn't really "civilised behavior" to refuse to release any OFFICIAL tangible, undoubtable evidence of and information about a quality game up to a week before you are supposed to Officially launch the game.
and it isn't "civilised behavior" to ask customers to pay you money for a product that they know absolutely nothing definitive about.
it is very, very odd that this game was a week out from Global launch, now a month out from Global launch due to the delay, and not a single credible North American media source has a definitive review, or a definitive preview of the Release Candidate of the game. Yet they are preparing to take people's money for "early access". Early access to what, exactly? That's the problem here, nobody except a scant few "elite" people know. The general public, who Aventurine is preparing to take money from, has no clue exactly what they are paying for and what state the product is in, besides vague and cryptic forum commentary.
that, my friend, is "unethical" and not "civilised behavior". and that is the root of the problem.
people are doubting that Aventurine is on the level, and in order to alleviate and supress that doubt, Aventurine needs to let someone like MMORPG.com or IGN.com, or PC Gamer in and let them see the product and write about it, in definitive detail.
Oh! Oh! someone want the Schematics and a Bible to the game mechanics.....
Lets see W = Forward S = Backwards D = Dunce A = Absolutely.... M = Map, ya know what I don't care because i will find out when i get there. I don't need to know now.... LMAO . Oh and SC = Spell Check.
Originally posted by JMadisonIV The general public, who Aventurine is preparing to take money from, has no clue exactly what they are paying for and what state the product is in, besides vague and cryptic forum commentary. that, my friend, is "unethical" and not "civilised behavior". and that is the root of the problem. people are doubting that Aventurine is on the level, and in order to alleviate and supress that doubt, Aventurine needs to let someone like MMORPG.com or IGN.com, or PC Gamer in and let them see the product and write about it, in definitive detail.
Gah well you obviously disagree but that just seems like nonsense to me. If they were actually taking money off people at this moment and not providing what they were claiming to be selling then I could understand it, but as they are not I can't see any reason to do this. You can suspect them as much as you like but fact is they haven't done anything to cause harm to anyone and even refusing to give a beta key does in not prove that they are going to. What happens if mmorpg.com does what the op suggests and then they release a near pefect game?
Originally posted by admriker4 Its not unreasonable or unethical to ask for a beta key to review the game. And since Adventurine has offered little proof the game actually exists why should mmorpg.com continue to help promote a possible fraud ? Listing them here legitimizes them.
I would say it is unethical to threaten the devs with reprisals if they do not meet their demands. It would better for you to just ask them to remove the forum.
If they started behaving like that it would not surprise me if this site ended up on media blacklist with all developers.
Look around you at all the legitimate review websites out there, as well as all the legitimate developers. You think any of them is going to give a toss if mmorpg.com removes Darkfall? Hell, Darkfall isn't only a joke on this site, it's a joke internet wide.
... A game that is going to be released in a little over a month has no press coverage besides the interviews where Tasos regurgitates the same answers over and over again.
... A game that is going to be released in a little over a month has no press coverage besides the interviews where Tasos regurgitates the same answers over and over again.
Originally posted by ZANGFEI Oh! Oh! someone want the Schematics and a Bible to the game mechanics.....
nope.
I just want to see the game, and know that the game is decent and worth paying for. and I want to know before I think about "paying a subscription to play the whole game "
lmao @ you
seriously, is everyone who plays Darkfall going to be like you? if this game ever does come out, I'm gonna love smashing you into the ground and reading your forum whines about how my class is overpowered.
Of course, because the whole point of this site is to hype up unfinished games with barren worlds, features turned off and crappy animations, as well as, praise shady development companies and a guy named Tasos.
cause thats what's being done This game was actually under the radar with all its fans until the WoWers, AoCers, and Warers games didn't work out and decided to take it out on darkfall for some reason. Never could figure that one out. But hey, whatever floats your boat.
You really have no clue do you? The fanbois like you have been hyping this game since well before sept 2007. The "Darkfall is coming!" made back then is what originally got me interested. So please cut with the crap about how its the doubters that are the ones voting/hyping Dakfall best game of 2008.
Sinply put you have no facts to back up your arguement and are instead resorting to attacks on those that do have facts to try and protect the game rather then face the truth of what we currently do know (as fact).
Wow, calm down there tuff guy. I've said it before, yes I am a fan and I am a boy so I am a fanboy. Happy you figured that one out. Burger king crown for you!
Are you done sitting on your highhorse now? Good, now lets get one thing straight, I havn't attacked anyone, only stated what i've seen on this board. If your feel your being attacked I would suggest you find a rated G forum for yourself.
Now you want to talk about my facts? All you have to do is look at most of the trolls history and you'll see what games they come from. Sorry to see you all bent out of shape because darkfall has a # next to it thats higher then any other game right now for release. Next time i'll try not to vote so high on a game im interested in. Oh I know I know, we shouldn't be allowed to be excited about darkfall being released. Its just not fair to you.
Originally posted by JMadisonIV The general public, who Aventurine is preparing to take money from, has no clue exactly what they are paying for and what state the product is in, besides vague and cryptic forum commentary. that, my friend, is "unethical" and not "civilised behavior". and that is the root of the problem. people are doubting that Aventurine is on the level, and in order to alleviate and supress that doubt, Aventurine needs to let someone like MMORPG.com or IGN.com, or PC Gamer in and let them see the product and write about it, in definitive detail.
Gah well you obviously disagree but that just seems like nonsense to me. If they were actually taking money off people at this moment and not providing what they were claiming to be selling then I could understand it, but as they are not I can't see any reason to do this. You can suspect them as much as you like but fact is they haven't done anything to cause harm to anyone and even refusing to give a beta key does in not prove that they are going to. What happens if mmorpg.com does what the op suggests and then they release a near pefect game?
really it seems like nonsense, that nobody knows anything substantial about this game, but they've announced that they are going to take paid pre-orders for it? if someone shoved a contract in your face for a car, and asked you to sign it right then and there, without giving you an opportunity to see or read anything that even remotely has to do with the car, would you sign it and pay?
and yeah, sure they haven't physically taken anyone's money yet, but they have already announced the intention to do so. it is their plan to take pre-order money.
and yes, we can suspect them as much as we like, and that is ALL people are doing here. the burden is on them to prove our suspicions unfounded. I don't see what is "unethical" about that.
what happens if they release a near perfect game? then I will pay them to play it. period.
but I'm not going to pay anything until I am sure that everything is on the level. and I have doubts of that, at this point in time.
another thing, generally pre-orders are made available MONTHS before the game launches, not two weeks. I've never heard of initial pre-orders being made available only a few weeks before the game launches. I've always been able to pre-order all my games at least 4-6 months in advance. but that's just *my* experience.
I dont know if mmorpg.com has asked about a sneak peek for Darkfall but with the latest doings, it seems time to demand it. For our sake, after all there have been a few scams in the past few years. mmo players are growing tired of indie developers asking for pre-order money then come launch day the game is 95% unfinished. It would sure be nice if mmorpg.com could step in here and protect the community from a possible scam here with Darkfall. At this point, all we've seen is a graniy edited video from a yr ago. There isnt much proof that this game even exists. And there are beta leaks that suggest the game is empty like Dark and Light was. My suggestion, mmorpg.com contacts Tasos and asks for a beta key to see for themselves if the game exists and delivers on its promises. A review is due us BEFORE we start giving an unproven and unknown developer money for an MMO we dont even know works. If Tasos refuses, pull Darkfall off the mmorpg.com list and post an article warning the community of a potential scam. If Tasos and Adventurine want to be taken seriously they will comply. If the game is just another scam where they grab all the money they can before launch day and then run for the hills, then it should be easy for mmorpg.com to find out in beta scams only hurt the industry. If this is another D&L players are going to be very leary of ever pre-ordering again. Plus it makes other indy devs look bad. Please look into this and confirm the game exists and works or let us know otherwise
Dude.. just don't pre order. What is with all the drama.
Originally posted by JMadisonIV really it seems like nonsense, that nobody knows anything substantial about this game, but they've announced that they are going to take paid pre-orders for it? if someone shoved a contract in your face for a car, and asked you to sign it right then and there, without giving you an opportunity to see or read anything that even remotely has to do with the car, would you sign it and pay?
Of course I wouldn't sign, just like I won't be buying a preorder for this game. Why should they be required to prove the game is good? If you think that this is bad pr then don't buy it. Are so people so stupid or unable to control their own actions that they do not trust themselves to wait until after release to buy the game? Really if people think it's a real scam then they should be contacting the authorities, if they think it's just going to be a bad game and that they will not be able to stop themselves from purchasing it they should contact a doctor.
Comments
To be completely honest I hope that DarkFall is all Tasos and Aventurine profess it to be. I'd kill for a solid game with the concepts this one is supposed to have. Yes I've been knocking the game of late but all in the name of a little fun and good natured teasing but I do hope it's a success. I'd be crazy not to.
The sad truth of this whole matter is that Tasos has hyped the game for the last 7 years and we've all been holding our breath in anticipation and the frustration and lack of oxygen is finally getting the better of most of us. All I can say at this point is this: We've come this far and endured the delays and what we've considered to be broken promises from the Devs there and lo and behold!, yet another delay and more confusing rhetoric from Tasos. I suggesyt that we all take one last deep breath and see what happens between the 22nd of this month and the 25th of next. If they actually do what they say they are going to do this time we'll have proof of it soon enough. If not... well, then I say, get out your torches and lets go see Tasos in person.
Until then I also suggest lightening up and thickening your skins and realize that teasing is just another form of stress relief and should be taken with a light heart and a good comeback.
cause thats what's being done
This game was actually under the radar with all its fans until the WoWers, AoCers, and Warers games didn't work out and decided to take it out on darkfall for some reason. Never could figure that one out. But hey, whatever floats your boat. 
You really have no clue do you? The fanbois like you have been hyping this game since well before sept 2007. The "Darkfall is coming!" made back then is what originally got me interested. So please cut with the crap about how its the doubters that are the ones voting/hyping Dakfall best game of 2008.
Sinply put you have no facts to back up your arguement and are instead resorting to attacks on those that do have facts to try and protect the game rather then face the truth of what we currently do know (as fact).
Just dont' preorder it, and dont' buy it till the NDA is dropped. Problem solved.
Well said .
Now i promise to STFU in this thread.
Yes I do want them to pressure for a look. Its not unethical either.
mmorpg.com is a website that caters to the MMO fans. It represents MMO's that have launched and will launch. They owe it to us to properly list legitimate games that arent just a scam to steal money from us. It reflects badly on the industry but mmorpg.com as well.
mmorpg.com lists Darkfall as an MMO soon to launch. The least they can (especially considering all of the ripoffs lately) is to ask for proof the game exists and works as promised.
Its not unreasonable or unethical to ask for a beta key to review the game. And since Adventurine has offered little proof the game actually exists why should mmorpg.com continue to help promote a possible fraud ? Listing them here legitimizes them.
Dark and Light, I hate to bring them up again but they had released far more info than Tasos has. They had videos, tons of screenshots, but like Darkfall they were missing a legit review. We know why they didnt allow a review today dont we.
McQuaid was just like Tasos with Vanguard. He took on a semi-god status with the fanbois. Whatever he said was considered the holy scripture and couldnt possibly be false. He was attacked and criticised by many but the fanbois defended him with vicious ferver. The critics just wanted proof the game was as advertised but were attacked by McQuad's defenders. McQuaid was a total fraud. He made his cash and then sold the game to the devil (SOE) which was ironic considering the game was marketed to the fanbois as the anti-SOE true sequel to EQ.
Since history hasnt been kind, we should ignore that and allow another developer to rob us ? Its a simple request, show us the goods.
I would say it is unethical to threaten the devs with reprisals if they do not meet their demands. It would better for you to just ask them to remove the forum.
If they started behaving like that it would not surprise me if this site ended up on media blacklist with all developers.
What's so unethical about a popular MMO website getting access to a highly anticipated game so they can either definitively prove that everything is on the level, or warn players of a potential danger?
Nothing about this game or this developer is making a damn bit of sense. It's not unreasonable or unethical to want real answers and real information, especially if people are going to be asked to start handing over money.
Let's look at things for a moment--
The beta testers? Totally unknown, and so small in number after all this time that there are next to no leaks at all. That is unheard of in a game with so much interest, and it's a red flag.
The videos and screenshots? Not enough information to go on. Remember-- Sigil showed Microsoft a bunch of videos, live demos, and screenshots and concept art for years to "prove" their progress on Vanguard, and they still got dumped by MS when development dragged on for too long and people started demanding to know where the money was going.
The change in stance on pre-orders? Not unexpected at all, but after so much spin and bullshit about how Aventurine hated pre-orders and they wanted nothing to do with them, all of a sudden a week before the initial launch date, they announce pre-orders? That's a red flag, and even folks on the official DF forums are taking a step back now.
The fact that now, a week before the launch date they'd been announcing, they admit that they need more testing, including stress tests, and that they're unable to even come close to meeting the demand for this game as far as server capacity, and after they'd spun a bunch of bullshit about this game being farther along and more advanced than any other MMO before them? HUGE red flag. Massive. If they're that far behind now, 1 week from the original release date they'd announced weeks ago, it's hard to believe they'll have it all up and running by Feb. 25th unless they REALLY burn the midnight oil between now and then and nothing goes wrong.
The solution for all these questions is simple. Give the media open and unrestricted access to the game and allow them to see the state of Darkfall for themselves, and allow them to tell people what's really going on.
It's just not civilised behavour for a media outlet to go to another company and demand access to their product whilst make threats to publish defamitory comments and remove the forum if they refuse. If mmorpg.com does not trust this game then they should remove the forum. Using ultimatums and threats in order to get their stories as you are advocating, even if that is what the readers want, is clearly against the standards most people hold the media to.
If they want to write an article bashing the game - fine.
If they want to not cover game - fine.
Using coercion and threats in order to get stories - not fine
Unless I missed something, I haven't seen a damned thing from anyone on the MMORPG.com staff making demands towards Aventurine, or threatening to remove them from the site or anything like that. I don't know where you're getting any of that nonsense at all.
People are simply asking MMORPG to find a way to get access to Darkfall and/or Aventurine so that their fears of being scammed a la Dark and Light can be put to rest. That's not unethical or unreasonable at all. In fact, it's perfectly normal.
"My suggestion, mmorpg.com contacts Tasos and asks for a beta key to see for themselves if the game exists and delivers on its promises. A review is due us BEFORE we start giving an unproven and unknown developer money for an MMO we dont even know works. If Tasos refuses, pull Darkfall off the mmorpg.com list and post an article warning the community of a potential scam."
Well seems to be what he is suggesting. Unless it is not his intention for mmorpg.com to inform the devs what will happen if they do not comply, in which case why does he think that this will get them a beta key?
It's just not civilised behavour for a media outlet to go to another company and demand access to their product whilst make threats to publish defamitory comments and remove the forum if they refuse. If mmorpg.com does not trust this game then they should remove the forum. Using ultimatums and threats in order to get their stories as you are advocating, even if that is what the readers want, is clearly against the standards most people hold the media to.
If they want to write an article bashing the game - fine.
If they want to not cover game - fine.
Using coercion and threats in order to get stories - not fine
at the same time, I believe that it isn't really "civilised behavior" to refuse to release any OFFICIAL tangible, undoubtable evidence of and information about a quality game up to a week before you are supposed to Officially launch the game.
and it isn't "civilised behavior" to ask customers to pay you money for a product that they know absolutely nothing definitive about.
it is very, very odd that this game was a week out from Global launch, now a month out from Global launch due to the delay, and not a single credible North American media source has a definitive review, or a definitive preview of the Release Candidate of the game. Yet they are preparing to take people's money for "early access". Early access to what, exactly? That's the problem here, nobody except a scant few "elite" people know. The general public, who Aventurine is preparing to take money from, has no clue exactly what they are paying for and what state the product is in, besides vague and cryptic forum commentary.
that, my friend, is "unethical" and not "civilised behavior". and that is the root of the problem.
people are doubting that Aventurine is on the level, and in order to alleviate and supress that doubt, Aventurine needs to let someone like MMORPG.com or IGN.com, or PC Gamer in and let them see the product and write about it, in definitive detail.
One person's suggestion =/= MMORPG.com site policy. They're not the same thing.
Perhaps the OP is worded a bit harshly for your tastes, but his fears are not unreasonable. People have been scammed before, as Dark and Light proves, and it is natural for players to be wary now, especially if they're waiting for Darkfall and want to play it. No one wants to get burned again.
The OP isn't asking for the world. He's asking for this site to simply find a way to verify what Aventurine is claiming, and then tell the rest of us. What's so bad about that?
Nobody is making you buy this game. Nobody is making you hold your breath for its release either. Obviously, there are some things in this games development that raise flags. You should consider this when you buy the product. If you dont, its your fault.
Im definately not siding with Tasos here, but c'mon, can anyone actually STILL cry foul at this point? If you prematurely invest money in a product thats been in development for such a long period of time with no actual verification of its existence then I know some people in Ghana just looking for your investment money with 100% returns guaranteed, expect an email any day now.
And FYI, a couple years ago MMORPG.com responded to a petition in these forums to have Darkfall removed from the site. They explained that they DID in fact verify the existence of the Aventurine and that the company verified to them the game was still in developement. I distinctly remember this topic and the moderators response.
But, dont take their word for it. Just wait and see what happens. If you dont have any money invested you have no exposure to any deceit that clearly, at this stage, is a possibility. If your unwilling to wait and see, then ALL the fault lies squarely on you for being impatient.
It's just not civilised behavour for a media outlet to go to another company and demand access to their product whilst make threats to publish defamitory comments and remove the forum if they refuse. If mmorpg.com does not trust this game then they should remove the forum. Using ultimatums and threats in order to get their stories as you are advocating, even if that is what the readers want, is clearly against the standards most people hold the media to.
If they want to write an article bashing the game - fine.
If they want to not cover game - fine.
Using coercion and threats in order to get stories - not fine
at the same time, I believe that it isn't really "civilised behavior" to refuse to release any OFFICIAL tangible, undoubtable evidence of and information about a quality game up to a week before you are supposed to Officially launch the game.
and it isn't "civilised behavior" to ask customers to pay you money for a product that they know absolutely nothing definitive about.
it is very, very odd that this game was a week out from Global launch, now a month out from Global launch due to the delay, and not a single credible North American media source has a definitive review, or a definitive preview of the Release Candidate of the game. Yet they are preparing to take people's money for "early access". Early access to what, exactly? That's the problem here, nobody except a scant few "elite" people know. The general public, who Aventurine is preparing to take money from, has no clue exactly what they are paying for and what state the product is in, besides vague and cryptic forum commentary.
that, my friend, is "unethical" and not "civilised behavior". and that is the root of the problem.
people are doubting that Aventurine is on the level, and in order to alleviate and supress that doubt, Aventurine needs to let someone like MMORPG.com or IGN.com, or PC Gamer in and let them see the product and write about it, in definitive detail.
Oh! Oh! someone want the Schematics and a Bible to the game mechanics.....
Lets see W = Forward S = Backwards D = Dunce A = Absolutely.... M = Map, ya know what I don't care because i will find out when i get there. I don't need to know now.... LMAO . Oh and SC = Spell Check.
Gah well you obviously disagree but that just seems like nonsense to me. If they were actually taking money off people at this moment and not providing what they were claiming to be selling then I could understand it, but as they are not I can't see any reason to do this. You can suspect them as much as you like but fact is they haven't done anything to cause harm to anyone and even refusing to give a beta key does in not prove that they are going to. What happens if mmorpg.com does what the op suggests and then they release a near pefect game?
I would say it is unethical to threaten the devs with reprisals if they do not meet their demands. It would better for you to just ask them to remove the forum.
If they started behaving like that it would not surprise me if this site ended up on media blacklist with all developers.
Look around you at all the legitimate review websites out there, as well as all the legitimate developers. You think any of them is going to give a toss if mmorpg.com removes Darkfall? Hell, Darkfall isn't only a joke on this site, it's a joke internet wide.
Wow... I just thought of something.
Wow... I just thought of something.
System Shock Tasos. lol
nope.
I just want to see the game, and know that the game is decent and worth paying for. and I want to know before I think about "paying a subscription to play the whole game "
lmao @ you
seriously, is everyone who plays Darkfall going to be like you? if this game ever does come out, I'm gonna love smashing you into the ground and reading your forum whines about how my class is overpowered.
cause thats what's being done
This game was actually under the radar with all its fans until the WoWers, AoCers, and Warers games didn't work out and decided to take it out on darkfall for some reason. Never could figure that one out. But hey, whatever floats your boat. 
You really have no clue do you? The fanbois like you have been hyping this game since well before sept 2007. The "Darkfall is coming!" made back then is what originally got me interested. So please cut with the crap about how its the doubters that are the ones voting/hyping Dakfall best game of 2008.
Sinply put you have no facts to back up your arguement and are instead resorting to attacks on those that do have facts to try and protect the game rather then face the truth of what we currently do know (as fact).
Wow, calm down there tuff guy. I've said it before, yes I am a fan and I am a boy so I am a fanboy. Happy you figured that one out. Burger king crown for you!
Are you done sitting on your highhorse now? Good, now lets get one thing straight, I havn't attacked anyone, only stated what i've seen on this board. If your feel your being attacked I would suggest you find a rated G forum for yourself.
Now you want to talk about my facts? All you have to do is look at most of the trolls history and you'll see what games they come from. Sorry to see you all bent out of shape because darkfall has a # next to it thats higher then any other game right now for release. Next time i'll try not to vote so high on a game im interested in. Oh I know I know, we shouldn't be allowed to be excited about darkfall being released. Its just not fair to you.
Gah well you obviously disagree but that just seems like nonsense to me. If they were actually taking money off people at this moment and not providing what they were claiming to be selling then I could understand it, but as they are not I can't see any reason to do this. You can suspect them as much as you like but fact is they haven't done anything to cause harm to anyone and even refusing to give a beta key does in not prove that they are going to. What happens if mmorpg.com does what the op suggests and then they release a near pefect game?
really it seems like nonsense, that nobody knows anything substantial about this game, but they've announced that they are going to take paid pre-orders for it? if someone shoved a contract in your face for a car, and asked you to sign it right then and there, without giving you an opportunity to see or read anything that even remotely has to do with the car, would you sign it and pay?
and yeah, sure they haven't physically taken anyone's money yet, but they have already announced the intention to do so. it is their plan to take pre-order money.
and yes, we can suspect them as much as we like, and that is ALL people are doing here. the burden is on them to prove our suspicions unfounded. I don't see what is "unethical" about that.
what happens if they release a near perfect game? then I will pay them to play it. period.
but I'm not going to pay anything until I am sure that everything is on the level. and I have doubts of that, at this point in time.
another thing, generally pre-orders are made available MONTHS before the game launches, not two weeks. I've never heard of initial pre-orders being made available only a few weeks before the game launches. I've always been able to pre-order all my games at least 4-6 months in advance. but that's just *my* experience.
Dude.. just don't pre order. What is with all the drama.
Dude.. just don't pre order. What is with all the drama.
yep. this is the wisest course of action right now.
until Aventurine removes the doubt that surrounds this game, by releasing definitive information, or at least lifting the NDA.
Dude.. just don't pre order. What is with all the drama.
yep. this is the wisest course of action right now.
until Aventurine removes the doubt that surrounds this game, by releasing definitive information, or at least lifting the NDA.
I'll have to agree here. I feel like im watching soaps.
Of course I wouldn't sign, just like I won't be buying a preorder for this game. Why should they be required to prove the game is good? If you think that this is bad pr then don't buy it. Are so people so stupid or unable to control their own actions that they do not trust themselves to wait until after release to buy the game? Really if people think it's a real scam then they should be contacting the authorities, if they think it's just going to be a bad game and that they will not be able to stop themselves from purchasing it they should contact a doctor.