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Since Darkfall has been established as the best game currently on the market...
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In a traditional MMO, you are not "pigeonholed" into a class. You choose a class, from a variety. And, within that class, you have options and directions. You make it sound a lot more arbitrary than it really is.
In DFO, everyone converges to a same basic full slate. Sure, you can focus on X and Y, but you know you are at a disadvantage if you do that. This is one of my main gripes: eventually, everyone will be wearing the same "best" armor, chucking the same "best" nuke", using the same "best" bow and wielding the same "best" weapon. From my perspective, it's simply not fun, killing stone cold my immersion. Others might enjoy that, more power to them.
Games thrive on individuality. It's nice to have specialists, and rely on them to do their job while you do yours. This promotes strategic thinking, careful approaches and individual skill much more than the broad, generalist approach DFO currently has. And please, I'm not saying that there's no skill and strategy in DFO. All I'm saying is that, with a little creativity, it could be SO much more.
Exactly. Very good anlaysis.
To Ryun:
The WoW design is not perfect. In some ways its too complicated. Still, it is a design that embodies choice and complementary. Meaning you cannot have all, and there is always someone with something that fills where you lack.
In order to have choice, you must not and cannot have everything. That is where the design of DF fails. If you can use all weapons and train in every aspect possible, everyone is the same, the only difference between you and him, is the amount of time sunk in. The more time you have, technically you can be ahead of the other guys in every dimension.
This is actually my biggest issue with DF, not ffa pvp, not graphics not animation. Its the character. You do not feel you are different from others, you are just running down the same endless tunnel, the more time sunk in, the further you are. That is not a game design, its a leech of time, a time sink, its like running around a track forever, round 1 round 2 round 3... (skill rank 1,2,3 ...) Meaningless endless progression of numbers.
The simple game of rock scissor paper. If you can be all three at once, is there a strategy? a choice?
This thread is just a ploy by the player base to post the most infuriating, and asinine topics to increase viewership. Then they can claim the game is popular next week, look at the views.
Why it hasn't been removed is a testament to the mod staff here.
----------
"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
lol sure! Whenever I want these things I log into that one game.... been out for 12 years now.... oh... Ultima Online!
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"I like wow, I like aion and I like AoC all for different reasons.....the later cause i get to see boobs, but still its a reason!!" - Sawlstone
In a traditional MMO, you are not "pigeonholed" into a class. You choose a class, from a variety. And, within that class, you have options and directions. You make it sound a lot more arbitrary than it really is.
In DFO, everyone converges to a same basic full slate. Sure, you can focus on X and Y, but you know you are at a disadvantage if you do that. This is one of my main gripes: eventually, everyone will be wearing the same "best" armor, chucking the same "best" nuke", using the same "best" bow and wielding the same "best" weapon. From my perspective, it's simply not fun, killing stone cold my immersion. Others might enjoy that, more power to them.
Games thrive on individuality. It's nice to have specialists, and rely on them to do their job while you do yours. This promotes strategic thinking, careful approaches and individual skill much more than the broad, generalist approach DFO currently has. And please, I'm not saying that there's no skill and strategy in DFO. All I'm saying is that, with a little creativity, it could be SO much more.
Exactly. Very good anlaysis.
To Ryun:
The WoW design is not perfect. In some ways its too complicated. Still, it is a design that embodies choice and complementary. Meaning you cannot have all, and there is always someone with something that fills where you lack.
In order to have choice, you must not and cannot have everything. That is where the design of DF fails. If you can use all weapons and train in every aspect possible, everyone is the same, the only difference between you and him, is the amount of time sunk in. The more time you have, technically you can be ahead of the other guys in every dimension.
This is actually my biggest issue with DF, not ffa pvp, not graphics not animation. Its the character. You do not feel you are different from others, you are just running down the same endless tunnel, the more time sunk in, the further you are. That is not a game design, its a leech of time, a time sink, its like running around a track forever, round 1 round 2 round 3... (skill rank 1,2,3 ...) Meaningless endless progression of numbers.
The simple game of rock scissor paper. If you can be all three at once, is there a strategy? a choice?
I totally agree with you. While I think Darkfall is better than any other game out there, there are two issues that need to be addressed.
1) Skill cap
2) Local banking
It sounds like local banking will be introduced in a limited fashion in the newest expansion.
It'd seem that the less actual content and features a game has, the better a sandbox game it is. It follows that a box with a clean DVD inside would be the ultimate sandbox MMO.
The Edge... there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who really know where it is are the ones who have gone over.
This is one issue I really seem to differ on myself. I think a well thought out skill cap would be a blessing. Especially for the future of this game. Seems silly for everyone (for the most part) to have the exact same skills more or less.
Skill cap is a must but it won't fix the issue. AV need to make the skills different and competitve.
Like rock scissor paper, every skill has it strength and weakness. Then design boss fights or environment or something somewhere, where each strength or each weakness has its implications.
IF 2hand sword > 2 hand mace > 1hand whatever > .... in every fight, everyone will be a 2hand sword specialist. Even with caps, people will choose the obvious winner. That is where my argument of "lazy design" comes in.
Even in the old days of DAoC, slash pierce and blunt weapons have strength and weakness vs cloth/leather/mail/plate armor, and differs for each of the 3 realms. Simple design, but already allows for lots of variety.
DF still has a long way to go before it matures.
Agreed one hundred percent, couldn't have put it better myself.
This is one issue I really seem to differ on myself. I think a well thought out skill cap would be a blessing. Especially for the future of this game. Seems silly for everyone (for the most part) to have the exact same skills more or less.
Skill cap is a must but it won't fix the issue. AV need to make the skills different and competitve.
Like rock scissor paper, every skill has it strength and weakness. Then design boss fights or environment or something somewhere, where each strength or each weakness has its implications.
IF 2hand sword > 2 hand mace > 1hand whatever > .... in every fight, everyone will be a 2hand sword specialist. Even with caps, people will choose the obvious winner. That is where my argument of "lazy design" comes in.
Even in the old days of DAoC, slash pierce and blunt weapons have strength and weakness vs cloth/leather/mail/plate armor, and differs for each of the 3 realms. Simple design, but already allows for lots of variety.
DF still has a long way to go before it matures.
This is being fixed in the expansion.
Skill cap is a must but it won't fix the issue. AV need to make the skills different and competitve.
Like rock scissor paper, every skill has it strength and weakness. Then design boss fights or environment or something somewhere, where each strength or each weakness has its implications.
IF 2hand sword > 2 hand mace > 1hand whatever > .... in every fight, everyone will be a 2hand sword specialist. Even with caps, people will choose the obvious winner. That is where my argument of "lazy design" comes in.
Even in the old days of DAoC, slash pierce and blunt weapons have strength and weakness vs cloth/leather/mail/plate armor, and differs for each of the 3 realms. Simple design, but already allows for lots of variety.
DF still has a long way to go before it matures.
I agree with everything in this post.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
Did I miss a press release or something? Can you link it please.
In a traditional MMO, you are not "pigeonholed" into a class. You choose a class, from a variety. And, within that class, you have options and directions. You make it sound a lot more arbitrary than it really is.
In DFO, everyone converges to a same basic full slate. Sure, you can focus on X and Y, but you know you are at a disadvantage if you do that. This is one of my main gripes: eventually, everyone will be wearing the same "best" armor, chucking the same "best" nuke", using the same "best" bow and wielding the same "best" weapon. From my perspective, it's simply not fun, killing stone cold my immersion. Others might enjoy that, more power to them.
Games thrive on individuality. It's nice to have specialists, and rely on them to do their job while you do yours. This promotes strategic thinking, careful approaches and individual skill much more than the broad, generalist approach DFO currently has. And please, I'm not saying that there's no skill and strategy in DFO. All I'm saying is that, with a little creativity, it could be SO much more.
Exactly. Very good anlaysis.
To Ryun:
The WoW design is not perfect. In some ways its too complicated. Still, it is a design that embodies choice and complementary. Meaning you cannot have all, and there is always someone with something that fills where you lack.
In order to have choice, you must not and cannot have everything. That is where the design of DF fails. If you can use all weapons and train in every aspect possible, everyone is the same, the only difference between you and him, is the amount of time sunk in. The more time you have, technically you can be ahead of the other guys in every dimension.
This is actually my biggest issue with DF, not ffa pvp, not graphics not animation. Its the character. You do not feel you are different from others, you are just running down the same endless tunnel, the more time sunk in, the further you are. That is not a game design, its a leech of time, a time sink, its like running around a track forever, round 1 round 2 round 3... (skill rank 1,2,3 ...) Meaningless endless progression of numbers.
The simple game of rock scissor paper. If you can be all three at once, is there a strategy? a choice?
How is this any different that real life? You can get great with any weapon in existence. Obviously, the more time spent with one the better you would be with that one. Also, you may naturally be better skilled with one more then another.
Also, how is this any different than any shooter every created? In CoD you can play with and weapon in the game and it is still a blast.
The fact that you CAN be any role to me isn't a bad a thing.
I have never played the game but from my thinking if they have varied enough weapons and magic there will still enough variances because one person may prefer to be an archer x-bow or archer bow, a melee pole are with longer reach or a dagger with shorter faster, or a mage that does one type of magic instead of another.
I really don't know enough about the game to know if they vary the ranger, magic, and melee well enough where everyone isn't basically a clone but if it done right there will still be variance.
I played Asheron's Call for a long time it did have a cap though. But you could be about anything in reality as they raised the caps. There was still a lot of character variances because of hybrids, weapon choices, and how exactly people used the spell available.
This. Italic part especially.
True ... and if your implicatins are correct, that the mods are in favour or blowing this game out of proportions, there is an even easier way.
Code the website so that it automatically generates 500000 clicks when anyone of us click it once. LoL..
Agreed one hundred percent, couldn't have put it better myself.
This thread not being removed is a testament to Darkfall's greatness.
This is one issue I really seem to differ on myself. I think a well thought out skill cap would be a blessing. Especially for the future of this game. Seems silly for everyone (for the most part) to have the exact same skills more or less.
Skill cap is a must but it won't fix the issue. AV need to make the skills different and competitve.
Like rock scissor paper, every skill has it strength and weakness. Then design boss fights or environment or something somewhere, where each strength or each weakness has its implications.
IF 2hand sword > 2 hand mace > 1hand whatever > .... in every fight, everyone will be a 2hand sword specialist. Even with caps, people will choose the obvious winner. That is where my argument of "lazy design" comes in.
Even in the old days of DAoC, slash pierce and blunt weapons have strength and weakness vs cloth/leather/mail/plate armor, and differs for each of the 3 realms. Simple design, but already allows for lots of variety.
DF still has a long way to go before it matures.
I agree for the system to work well everything must be balanced and competitive in varied situations. For instance sometime it might be better to have the shorter faster weapon or other time be better to have a longer slower weapon.
But balance is key to maintaining character balance and not everyone being a clone of whatever class or weapon type that is most effective.
In a traditional MMO, you are not "pigeonholed" into a class. You choose a class, from a variety. And, within that class, you have options and directions. You make it sound a lot more arbitrary than it really is.
In DFO, everyone converges to a same basic full slate. Sure, you can focus on X and Y, but you know you are at a disadvantage if you do that. This is one of my main gripes: eventually, everyone will be wearing the same "best" armor, chucking the same "best" nuke", using the same "best" bow and wielding the same "best" weapon. From my perspective, it's simply not fun, killing stone cold my immersion. Others might enjoy that, more power to them.
Games thrive on individuality. It's nice to have specialists, and rely on them to do their job while you do yours. This promotes strategic thinking, careful approaches and individual skill much more than the broad, generalist approach DFO currently has. And please, I'm not saying that there's no skill and strategy in DFO. All I'm saying is that, with a little creativity, it could be SO much more.
Exactly. Very good anlaysis.
To Ryun:
The WoW design is not perfect. In some ways its too complicated. Still, it is a design that embodies choice and complementary. Meaning you cannot have all, and there is always someone with something that fills where you lack.
In order to have choice, you must not and cannot have everything. That is where the design of DF fails. If you can use all weapons and train in every aspect possible, everyone is the same, the only difference between you and him, is the amount of time sunk in. The more time you have, technically you can be ahead of the other guys in every dimension.
This is actually my biggest issue with DF, not ffa pvp, not graphics not animation. Its the character. You do not feel you are different from others, you are just running down the same endless tunnel, the more time sunk in, the further you are. That is not a game design, its a leech of time, a time sink, its like running around a track forever, round 1 round 2 round 3... (skill rank 1,2,3 ...) Meaningless endless progression of numbers.
The simple game of rock scissor paper. If you can be all three at once, is there a strategy? a choice?
Wow, is not complicated. It's about the same lvl as most current f2P mmorpg's. Hell in some of the F2Panime mmo's, you actually have a more complex social interaction.
The sad fact is most you kids have grown up with wow and think the concepts used in wow were created by blizzard. Blizzard cut and paste from previous mmo's and dumbed them down for the simplistic majority. You are like the poor lil kids in the 3rd world countries who believe water from the dirty river is good for you....
BTW darkfall sucks but wow still wins the top top title of a crappy/simplistic/newb game....
In a traditional MMO, you are not "pigeonholed" into a class. You choose a class, from a variety. And, within that class, you have options and directions. You make it sound a lot more arbitrary than it really is.
In DFO, everyone converges to a same basic full slate. Sure, you can focus on X and Y, but you know you are at a disadvantage if you do that. This is one of my main gripes: eventually, everyone will be wearing the same "best" armor, chucking the same "best" nuke", using the same "best" bow and wielding the same "best" weapon. From my perspective, it's simply not fun, killing stone cold my immersion. Others might enjoy that, more power to them.
Games thrive on individuality. It's nice to have specialists, and rely on them to do their job while you do yours. This promotes strategic thinking, careful approaches and individual skill much more than the broad, generalist approach DFO currently has. And please, I'm not saying that there's no skill and strategy in DFO. All I'm saying is that, with a little creativity, it could be SO much more.
Exactly. Very good anlaysis.
To Ryun:
The WoW design is not perfect. In some ways its too complicated. Still, it is a design that embodies choice and complementary. Meaning you cannot have all, and there is always someone with something that fills where you lack.
In order to have choice, you must not and cannot have everything. That is where the design of DF fails. If you can use all weapons and train in every aspect possible, everyone is the same, the only difference between you and him, is the amount of time sunk in. The more time you have, technically you can be ahead of the other guys in every dimension.
This is actually my biggest issue with DF, not ffa pvp, not graphics not animation. Its the character. You do not feel you are different from others, you are just running down the same endless tunnel, the more time sunk in, the further you are. That is not a game design, its a leech of time, a time sink, its like running around a track forever, round 1 round 2 round 3... (skill rank 1,2,3 ...) Meaningless endless progression of numbers.
The simple game of rock scissor paper. If you can be all three at once, is there a strategy? a choice?
How is this any different that real life? You can get great with any weapon in existence. Obviously, the more time spent with one the better you would be with that one. Also, you may naturally be better skilled with one more then another.
Also, how is this any different than any shooter every created? In CoD you can play with and weapon in the game and it is still a blast.
The fact that you CAN be any role to me isn't a bad a thing.
I have never played the game but from my thinking if they have varied enough weapons and magic there will still enough variances because one person may prefer to be an archer x-bow or archer bow, a melee pole are with longer reach or a dagger with shorter faster, or a mage that does one type of magic instead of another.
I really don't know enough about the game to know if they vary the ranger, magic, and melee well enough where everyone isn't basically a clone but if it done right there will still be variance.
I played Asheron's Call for a long time it did have a cap though. But you could be about anything in reality as they raised the caps. There was still a lot of character variances because of hybrids, weapon choices, and how exactly people used the spell available.
In real life there is something that caps you, your life. You can train in any weapon forever, but you will eventually die before you hit the cap.
In DF, you can theoretically train everything and be better in everything than the next guy, if you have much much much more time. That robs one of the most interesting part of MMORPGs, character development, choice and planning.
In real life, no one is a generalist.
And, again, we are discussing MMOs. Shooters are another ballpark. But it's funny you should mention it, since I have stated many times here that DFO will continue to be just a glorified FPS until AV adds diversity, individuality and non-combat features to the game.
Then, we could say it is a sandbox. Real choices.
While agree there should be a cap.
But if you die in real life you die in game as well........
...but you keep posting on this forum. Are you part of that plot then ?
Wow, is not complicated. It's about the same lvl as most current f2P mmorpg's. Hell in some of the F2Panime mmo's, you actually have a more complex social interaction.
The sad fact is most you kids have grown up with wow and think the concepts used in wow were created by blizzard. Blizzard cut and paste from previous mmo's and dumbed them down for the simplistic majority. You are like the poor lil kids in the 3rd world countries who believe water from the dirty river is good for you....
BTW darkfall sucks but wow still wins the top top title of a crappy/simplistic/newb game....
First I am not a kid, I am most likely older than your father. So spare me your insults.
Complex social interactions? I am talking about character design. WoW has so many dimensions, it is not funny.
In defense, you have dodge parry defence rating, armor rating, resistance ... each with its only diminishing returns some wtih caps. Pool size vs regen, different forms of regen, under different conditions.
In offense, you have to hit chance, armor penetration, spell penetration, ... each of them working on a different principle, in other words the mathematical formula is different. You need to choose between burst damage or sustained damage, and type of damage.
In gearing up, you have to consider talents, gems, enchants, statistics, caps, diminishing returns, regen rates, buffs from members of the team, debuffs from enemies and bosses.
If you play WoW like DF, just grab some gear and march in, sure, its a game. But, if you can spare the time to slowly plan your character, you can build a lot of very specialised characters for different occasion. Many of the good players have 4 to 5 sets of gear each optimised for certain occasions, and matched by 2 talent specs. Team formation, choice of members and so on.
That is where the complexity lies, not some complex social interaction you are talking about. Go read up on theory crafting on WoW. There are 100s of sites littering with thousands of mathematical theories and statistical studies on each and every dimension. Its literally a school. Before you call people poor little kids from the 3rd world, read up.
Lisubab, you should come play Darkfall.
Hehe, sorry pal, BBQ time. I can smell the roast. Bye.
In a traditional MMO, you are not "pigeonholed" into a class. You choose a class, from a variety. And, within that class, you have options and directions. You make it sound a lot more arbitrary than it really is.
In DFO, everyone converges to a same basic full slate. Sure, you can focus on X and Y, but you know you are at a disadvantage if you do that. This is one of my main gripes: eventually, everyone will be wearing the same "best" armor, chucking the same "best" nuke", using the same "best" bow and wielding the same "best" weapon. From my perspective, it's simply not fun, killing stone cold my immersion. Others might enjoy that, more power to them.
Games thrive on individuality. It's nice to have specialists, and rely on them to do their job while you do yours. This promotes strategic thinking, careful approaches and individual skill much more than the broad, generalist approach DFO currently has. And please, I'm not saying that there's no skill and strategy in DFO. All I'm saying is that, with a little creativity, it could be SO much more.
Exactly. Very good anlaysis.
To Ryun:
The WoW design is not perfect. In some ways its too complicated. Still, it is a design that embodies choice and complementary. Meaning you cannot have all, and there is always someone with something that fills where you lack.
In order to have choice, you must not and cannot have everything. That is where the design of DF fails. If you can use all weapons and train in every aspect possible, everyone is the same, the only difference between you and him, is the amount of time sunk in. The more time you have, technically you can be ahead of the other guys in every dimension.
This is actually my biggest issue with DF, not ffa pvp, not graphics not animation. Its the character. You do not feel you are different from others, you are just running down the same endless tunnel, the more time sunk in, the further you are. That is not a game design, its a leech of time, a time sink, its like running around a track forever, round 1 round 2 round 3... (skill rank 1,2,3 ...) Meaningless endless progression of numbers.
The simple game of rock scissor paper. If you can be all three at once, is there a strategy? a choice?
Wow, is not complicated. It's about the same lvl as most current f2P mmorpg's. Hell in some of the F2Panime mmo's, you actually have a more complex social interaction.
The sad fact is most you kids have grown up with wow and think the concepts used in wow were created by blizzard. Blizzard cut and paste from previous mmo's and dumbed them down for the simplistic majority. You are like the poor lil kids in the 3rd world countries who believe water from the dirty river is good for you....
BTW darkfall sucks but wow still wins the top top title of a crappy/simplistic/newb game....
Actually the saddest fact is those like yourself who say stupid shit like "The sad fact is most you kids have grown up with wow and think the concepts used in wow were created by blizzard.". News flash most folks who you could possibly speak to through this board are well aware WOW is nothing new and didn't invent anything hell I think know it all's like yourself may do well to give credit where it is truly due because even the old school mmo's you guys like to tout so often didn't invent many of the RPG systems in use they all came from off line often times console rpgs.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
There are far too many insults being thrown around, so I'm closing this thread.
In future, please abide by the RoC.