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Group-lovers: the REAL freaks in the MMO world...?
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Hahaha, didn't think anyone would actually use the SEARCH function huh?
Madeux has only played MMO's for the last 2 years, he's lying. Just look at his earlier posts and do some research, he clearly admits in many of them he's only been MMOing for 2 years.
Yeah I just read that. Nothing worse than someone making up a lie to support their case. Again more ego driven antics from the new school kids. (I apologize to those out there who are actually stand up people at that age, but youve got some bad apples ruining it for you.)
so you cant argue his points, so you attack him personally. right after you called your own countrymen fat and stupid. and i thought only europeans made fat jokes about americans. =D
If you would, please do me the favor of telling me what his point is. Frankly I have no idea. Enlighten me so I can tear down his tower of sticks.
his point is that you're bitter about mmos catering to solo play and you want people who dont like to group, to group. he feels you want to force your view of what a mmo should be on others. i agree. i think youre a twat.
Well then to him I would say this. I dont give a shit about solo'rs him, and especially you.
My point is, Id love to a new game come out thats AAA but is group centric.
Regardless of your new pals spew, I dont think you are twats, I think you both have the social skills of a drunken sailor.
I think you and i have Final Fantasy XIV to look forward to
I'm quite looking forward to it as well
Err... I dont think you should, Simply because in Final Fantasy you have to play in a group to do well and socialize with others, I think you have already stated how you hate doing both because it doesnt give you MAX XP/HOUR or something along those lines.
Actually playing a group centric game like Final fantasy might change your opinion that you love soloing so much because its fun and grouping sucks because of X and Y reasons, when in reality you only enjoy soloing because it boasts a higher xp/hour in w/e game you play. And if you were playing another game where grouping is the way to go you would be calling solo players foolish.
"If having a group option will hurt soloing, that just proves that grouping is inherently better and provides more entertainment, which is why I play MMO's." -- Madeux
Well, he did say that much.
I like how 99% of these arguments from the "solo advocates" can easily be flipped around and still hold water.
Which is why I support both equally, and that is the only logical position to take.
exactly. we dont need to attack grouping in order to defend soloing.
If you stand VERY still, and close your eyes, after a minute you can actually FEEL the universe revolving around PvP.
Hahaha, didn't think anyone would actually use the SEARCH function huh?
Madeux has only played MMO's for the last 2 years, he's lying. Just look at his earlier posts and do some research, he clearly admits in many of them he's only been MMOing for 2 years.
Yeah I just read that. Nothing worse than someone making up a lie to support their case. Again more ego driven antics from the new school kids. (I apologize to those out there who are actually stand up people at that age, but youve got some bad apples ruining it for you.)
so you cant argue his points, so you attack him personally. right after you called your own countrymen fat and stupid. and i thought only europeans made fat jokes about americans. =D
If you would, please do me the favor of telling me what his point is. Frankly I have no idea. Enlighten me so I can tear down his tower of sticks.
his point is that you're bitter about mmos catering to solo play and you want people who dont like to group, to group. he feels you want to force your view of what a mmo should be on others. i agree. i think youre a twat.
Well then to him I would say this. I dont give a shit about solo'rs him, and especially you.
My point is, Id love to a new game come out thats AAA but is group centric.
Regardless of your new pals spew, I dont think you are twats, I think you both have the social skills of a drunken sailor.
I think you and i have Final Fantasy XIV to look forward to
I'm quite looking forward to it as well
Err... I dont think you should, Simply because in Final Fantasy you have to play in a group to do well and socialize with others, I think you have already stated how you hate doing both because it doesnt give you MAX XP/HOUR or something along those lines.
Actually playing a group centric game like Final fantasy might change your opinion that you love soloing so much because its fun and grouping sucks because of X and Y reasons, when in reality you only enjoy soloing because it boasts a higher xp/hour in w/e game you play. And if you were playing another game where grouping is the way to go you would be calling solo players foolish.
You sir, owe me a new monitor, its going to take me hours to get all the mashed potatoes I spit off of mine.
Well i cant get you a new one but i can direct you to some cheap ones
promotions.newegg.com/nepro/bfdisplay/index.html Black friday newegg sale.
Hahaha, didn't think anyone would actually use the SEARCH function huh?
Madeux has only played MMO's for the last 2 years, he's lying. Just look at his earlier posts and do some research, he clearly admits in many of them he's only been MMOing for 2 years.
Yeah I just read that. Nothing worse than someone making up a lie to support their case. Again more ego driven antics from the new school kids. (I apologize to those out there who are actually stand up people at that age, but youve got some bad apples ruining it for you.)
so you cant argue his points, so you attack him personally. right after you called your own countrymen fat and stupid. and i thought only europeans made fat jokes about americans. =D
If you would, please do me the favor of telling me what his point is. Frankly I have no idea. Enlighten me so I can tear down his tower of sticks.
his point is that you're bitter about mmos catering to solo play and you want people who dont like to group, to group. he feels you want to force your view of what a mmo should be on others. i agree. i think youre a twat.
Well then to him I would say this. I dont give a shit about solo'rs him, and especially you.
My point is, Id love to a new game come out thats AAA but is group centric.
Regardless of your new pals spew, I dont think you are twats, I think you both have the social skills of a drunken sailor.
I think you and i have Final Fantasy XIV to look forward to
I'm quite looking forward to it as well
Err... I dont think you should, Simply because in Final Fantasy you have to play in a group to do well and socialize with others, I think you have already stated how you hate doing both because it doesnt give you MAX XP/HOUR or something along those lines.
Actually playing a group centric game like Final fantasy might change your opinion that you love soloing so much because its fun and grouping sucks because of X and Y reasons, when in reality you only enjoy soloing because it boasts a higher xp/hour in w/e game you play. And if you were playing another game where grouping is the way to go you would be calling solo players foolish.
"If having a group option will hurt soloing, that just proves that grouping is inherently better and provides more entertainment, which is why I play MMO's." -- Madeux
Well, he did say that much.
I like how 99% of these arguments from the "solo advocates" can easily be flipped around and still hold water.
Which is why I support both equally, and that is the only logical position to take.
You can't support both equally when you say one is better than the other.
Even if you did, both cannot co-exist "equally," and I've yet to hear your reply as to how that's not a true statement.
Hahaha, didn't think anyone would actually use the SEARCH function huh?
Madeux has only played MMO's for the last 2 years, he's lying. Just look at his earlier posts and do some research, he clearly admits in many of them he's only been MMOing for 2 years.
Yeah I just read that. Nothing worse than someone making up a lie to support their case. Again more ego driven antics from the new school kids. (I apologize to those out there who are actually stand up people at that age, but youve got some bad apples ruining it for you.)
so you cant argue his points, so you attack him personally. right after you called your own countrymen fat and stupid. and i thought only europeans made fat jokes about americans. =D
If you would, please do me the favor of telling me what his point is. Frankly I have no idea. Enlighten me so I can tear down his tower of sticks.
his point is that you're bitter about mmos catering to solo play and you want people who dont like to group, to group. he feels you want to force your view of what a mmo should be on others. i agree. i think youre a twat.
Well then to him I would say this. I dont give a shit about solo'rs him, and especially you.
My point is, Id love to a new game come out thats AAA but is group centric.
Regardless of your new pals spew, I dont think you are twats, I think you both have the social skills of a drunken sailor.
I think you and i have Final Fantasy XIV to look forward to
I'm quite looking forward to it as well
Err... I dont think you should, Simply because in Final Fantasy you have to play in a group to do well and socialize with others, I think you have already stated how you hate doing both because it doesnt give you MAX XP/HOUR or something along those lines.
Actually playing a group centric game like Final fantasy might change your opinion that you love soloing so much because its fun and grouping sucks because of X and Y reasons, when in reality you only enjoy soloing because it boasts a higher xp/hour in w/e game you play. And if you were playing another game where grouping is the way to go you would be calling solo players foolish.
"If having a group option will hurt soloing, that just proves that grouping is inherently better and provides more entertainment, which is why I play MMO's." -- Madeux
Well, he did say that much.
I like how 99% of these arguments from the "solo advocates" can easily be flipped around and still hold water.
Which is why I support both equally, and that is the only logical position to take.
exactly. we dont need to attack grouping in order to defend soloing.
Err , Care to read the name of this thread out loud?
Hahaha, didn't think anyone would actually use the SEARCH function huh?
Madeux has only played MMO's for the last 2 years, he's lying. Just look at his earlier posts and do some research, he clearly admits in many of them he's only been MMOing for 2 years.
Yeah I just read that. Nothing worse than someone making up a lie to support their case. Again more ego driven antics from the new school kids. (I apologize to those out there who are actually stand up people at that age, but youve got some bad apples ruining it for you.)
so you cant argue his points, so you attack him personally. right after you called your own countrymen fat and stupid. and i thought only europeans made fat jokes about americans. =D
If you would, please do me the favor of telling me what his point is. Frankly I have no idea. Enlighten me so I can tear down his tower of sticks.
his point is that you're bitter about mmos catering to solo play and you want people who dont like to group, to group. he feels you want to force your view of what a mmo should be on others. i agree. i think youre a twat.
Well then to him I would say this. I dont give a shit about solo'rs him, and especially you.
My point is, Id love to a new game come out thats AAA but is group centric.
Regardless of your new pals spew, I dont think you are twats, I think you both have the social skills of a drunken sailor.
I think you and i have Final Fantasy XIV to look forward to
I'm quite looking forward to it as well
Err... I dont think you should, Simply because in Final Fantasy you have to play in a group to do well and socialize with others, I think you have already stated how you hate doing both because it doesnt give you MAX XP/HOUR or something along those lines.
Actually playing a group centric game like Final fantasy might change your opinion that you love soloing so much because its fun and grouping sucks because of X and Y reasons, when in reality you only enjoy soloing because it boasts a higher xp/hour in w/e game you play. And if you were playing another game where grouping is the way to go you would be calling solo players foolish.
Actually if you read the articles about FFXIV you will see where they said the game will be both casual and group friendly to appeal to a wider audience. That and from what ive read the game is going a more skill based system and not so much an XP gaining system. I'll reread the articles and maybe find better translations as they were pretty much all japanese gaming mags.
Though I too am looking forward to the game as well.
There are 3 types of people in the world.
1.) Those who make things happen
2.) Those who watch things happen
3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
Hahaha, didn't think anyone would actually use the SEARCH function huh?
Madeux has only played MMO's for the last 2 years, he's lying. Just look at his earlier posts and do some research, he clearly admits in many of them he's only been MMOing for 2 years.
Yeah I just read that. Nothing worse than someone making up a lie to support their case. Again more ego driven antics from the new school kids. (I apologize to those out there who are actually stand up people at that age, but youve got some bad apples ruining it for you.)
so you cant argue his points, so you attack him personally. right after you called your own countrymen fat and stupid. and i thought only europeans made fat jokes about americans. =D
If you would, please do me the favor of telling me what his point is. Frankly I have no idea. Enlighten me so I can tear down his tower of sticks.
his point is that you're bitter about mmos catering to solo play and you want people who dont like to group, to group. he feels you want to force your view of what a mmo should be on others. i agree. i think youre a twat.
Well then to him I would say this. I dont give a shit about solo'rs him, and especially you.
My point is, Id love to a new game come out thats AAA but is group centric.
Regardless of your new pals spew, I dont think you are twats, I think you both have the social skills of a drunken sailor.
I think you and i have Final Fantasy XIV to look forward to
I'm quite looking forward to it as well
Err... I dont think you should, Simply because in Final Fantasy you have to play in a group to do well and socialize with others, I think you have already stated how you hate doing both because it doesnt give you MAX XP/HOUR or something along those lines.
Actually playing a group centric game like Final fantasy might change your opinion that you love soloing so much because its fun and grouping sucks because of X and Y reasons, when in reality you only enjoy soloing because it boasts a higher xp/hour in w/e game you play. And if you were playing another game where grouping is the way to go you would be calling solo players foolish.
"If having a group option will hurt soloing, that just proves that grouping is inherently better and provides more entertainment, which is why I play MMO's." -- Madeux
Well, he did say that much.
I like how 99% of these arguments from the "solo advocates" can easily be flipped around and still hold water.
Which is why I support both equally, and that is the only logical position to take.
You can't support both equally when you say one is better than the other.
Even if you did, both cannot co-exist "equally," and I've yet to hear your reply as to how that's not a true statement.
I have never said one is better than the other. I support both play styles, and participate in both. I play whatever I'm in the mood for.
exactly. we dont need to attack grouping in order to defend soloing.
Err , Care to read the name of this thread out loud?
why? i didnt make the damn thing, and neither did madeux, and we're the only ones putting up a fight. and the OP wasnt attacking grouping, it was attacking you, the freaks who want to shove their view of what a mmo should be on others.
If you stand VERY still, and close your eyes, after a minute you can actually FEEL the universe revolving around PvP.
Hahaha, didn't think anyone would actually use the SEARCH function huh?
Madeux has only played MMO's for the last 2 years, he's lying. Just look at his earlier posts and do some research, he clearly admits in many of them he's only been MMOing for 2 years.
Yeah I just read that. Nothing worse than someone making up a lie to support their case. Again more ego driven antics from the new school kids. (I apologize to those out there who are actually stand up people at that age, but youve got some bad apples ruining it for you.)
so you cant argue his points, so you attack him personally. right after you called your own countrymen fat and stupid. and i thought only europeans made fat jokes about americans. =D
If you would, please do me the favor of telling me what his point is. Frankly I have no idea. Enlighten me so I can tear down his tower of sticks.
his point is that you're bitter about mmos catering to solo play and you want people who dont like to group, to group. he feels you want to force your view of what a mmo should be on others. i agree. i think youre a twat.
Well then to him I would say this. I dont give a shit about solo'rs him, and especially you.
My point is, Id love to a new game come out thats AAA but is group centric.
Regardless of your new pals spew, I dont think you are twats, I think you both have the social skills of a drunken sailor.
I think you and i have Final Fantasy XIV to look forward to
I'm quite looking forward to it as well
Err... I dont think you should, Simply because in Final Fantasy you have to play in a group to do well and socialize with others, I think you have already stated how you hate doing both because it doesnt give you MAX XP/HOUR or something along those lines.
Actually playing a group centric game like Final fantasy might change your opinion that you love soloing so much because its fun and grouping sucks because of X and Y reasons, when in reality you only enjoy soloing because it boasts a higher xp/hour in w/e game you play. And if you were playing another game where grouping is the way to go you would be calling solo players foolish.
Actually if you read the articles about FFXIV you will see where they said the game will be both casual and group friendly to appeal to a wider audience. That and from what ive read the game is going a more skill based system and not so much an XP gaining system. I'll reread the articles and maybe find better translations as they were pretty much all japanese gaming mags.
FFXI had the greatest endgame of all MMOs in my opinion. I hope they do it again!
Hahaha, didn't think anyone would actually use the SEARCH function huh?
Madeux has only played MMO's for the last 2 years, he's lying. Just look at his earlier posts and do some research, he clearly admits in many of them he's only been MMOing for 2 years.
Yeah I just read that. Nothing worse than someone making up a lie to support their case. Again more ego driven antics from the new school kids. (I apologize to those out there who are actually stand up people at that age, but youve got some bad apples ruining it for you.)
so you cant argue his points, so you attack him personally. right after you called your own countrymen fat and stupid. and i thought only europeans made fat jokes about americans. =D
If you would, please do me the favor of telling me what his point is. Frankly I have no idea. Enlighten me so I can tear down his tower of sticks.
his point is that you're bitter about mmos catering to solo play and you want people who dont like to group, to group. he feels you want to force your view of what a mmo should be on others. i agree. i think youre a twat.
Well then to him I would say this. I dont give a shit about solo'rs him, and especially you.
My point is, Id love to a new game come out thats AAA but is group centric.
Regardless of your new pals spew, I dont think you are twats, I think you both have the social skills of a drunken sailor.
I think you and i have Final Fantasy XIV to look forward to
I'm quite looking forward to it as well
Err... I dont think you should, Simply because in Final Fantasy you have to play in a group to do well and socialize with others, I think you have already stated how you hate doing both because it doesnt give you MAX XP/HOUR or something along those lines.
Actually playing a group centric game like Final fantasy might change your opinion that you love soloing so much because its fun and grouping sucks because of X and Y reasons, when in reality you only enjoy soloing because it boasts a higher xp/hour in w/e game you play. And if you were playing another game where grouping is the way to go you would be calling solo players foolish.
Actually if you read the articles about FFXIV you will see where they said the game will be both casual and group friendly to appeal to a wider audience. That and from what ive read the game is going a more skill based system and not so much an XP gaining system. I'll reread the articles and maybe find better translations as they were pretty much all japanese gaming mags.
Though I too am looking forward to the game as well.
Well they pretty much said that you will be able to solo and you will be able to group, meaning grouping will still boast better rewards most likely. I think the solo content is only for those who cant play for long periods of time, and if you cant do that your probably playing the wrong genre.
But ill wait for the game to come out before i jump to any conclusions, i was just simply stating what Final fantasy has been about traditionally .
exactly. we dont need to attack grouping in order to defend soloing.
Err , Care to read the name of this thread out loud?
why? i didnt make the damn thing, and neither did madeux, and we're the only ones putting up a fight. and the OP wasnt attacking grouping, it was attacking you, the freaks who want to shove their view of what a mmo should be on others.
No your the ones constantly bitching about how Solo players > then everything and how its the funnest most proven method of making a game and everyone and there grandmother loves doing it.
Im not even going to try to read through the lovefest im sure that all the middle pages are and get to the point. Grouping in my opinion, is not automatically necessary; being at least somewhat reliant on other players is. The problem with removing grouping as a viable option that people want to use is that in most current mmos, grouping is the only mechanic that even remotely requires you to acknowledge the existence of everyone else playing the game. In games like EVE, grouping is far less of an issue because the player driven economy guarantees that even the most solo inclined player has to at some point interact with other players, however indirectly it may be. In most games though, most, if not all classes, are solo; all quests are soloable you dont mind dying over and over and over again; there are no indirect methods, such as a player run economy, to provide people reason to care about anybody else, and no auction house system I have personally seen does anything to help in this department. In short, while until developers figure out that there are other ways to create social interaction, groups are going to be the only way developers have to distinguish their games from a single player role playing game. As such, they do need to be emphasized and properly supported.
SuperXero is right, unless you make it so much better to group than solo, people will opt to solo because its less of a hass to solo then get a group goin.
i think its simply what has more XP/hour, and personally i would like grouping to have more xp/hour because ive tried both styles of gameplay and i find grouping to be more fun then soloing.
exactly. we dont need to attack grouping in order to defend soloing.
Err , Care to read the name of this thread out loud?
why? i didnt make the damn thing, and neither did madeux, and we're the only ones putting up a fight. and the OP wasnt attacking grouping, it was attacking you, the freaks who want to shove their view of what a mmo should be on others.
No your the ones constantly bitching about how Group players > then everything and how its the funnest most proven method of making a game and everyone and there grandmother loves doing it.
hey! it DOES work!
If you stand VERY still, and close your eyes, after a minute you can actually FEEL the universe revolving around PvP.
Because it's not inherently a team sport.
In MMO is a huge mountain. You can take a nice trail, alone or with friends. You can head for a vertical face and go it alone. You can tie yourself to a few friends and head strait for the top. There's no "right" way to climb the mountain, and everyone is free to enjoy it however they wish.
Actually MMOs by historical design are a team sport.
You can climb the mountain of character levels in different ways, but to reach the peak of rewards you must overcome challenges that are beyond a sinlge player.
"by historical design"? lol That's hilarious.
The reward system of which you speak... is what you want it to be. Not what it is, nor what it has to be or should be.
The guy who climbs the mountain alone may very well have done something that no single team member could have accomplished alone. So he has overcome challenges that are beyond many.
Agreed a solo player may do something that a single team member can't accomplish and for that he should be rewarded. So what about the Team of people that accomplish something that no solo player could...
Shouldn't they get rewarded as well ?
Shouldn't the reward for something that required more effort that a solo player could give be greater ?
A single player quest could require much more effort than the effort a single person puts into a raid. Effort should be rewarded, whether it is done alone or with others.
Agreed. Effort should be rewarded. More effort more reward.
In game, relevant effort should be rewarded. Whining while waiting for a group, waiting while a group member takes the garbage out, having to start over cuz group members bailed on you... that's all on you, outside of the game, and you should not benefit because of it.
Make a group, dont wait for one, thats one mistake people make over and over, take inititive, and youll wait far less. Thats right the work is on you, not the game, you get out of it what you put into it.
As far as group people bailing on you, simply making sure when someone joins your group that you let them know you are in for the long haul solves that.
I dont understand why you people are so overwhelmed by putting a little effort into grouping.
i think its simply what has more XP/hour, and personally i would like grouping to have more xp/hour because ive tried both styles of gameplay and i find grouping to be more fun then soloing.
I have made a lot of friends because of pick up groups, attending other guilds raids etc. You know how many people Ive befriended soloing? 0.0
i think its simply what has more XP/hour, and personally i would like grouping to have more xp/hour because ive tried both styles of gameplay and i find grouping to be more fun then soloing.
I have made a lot of friends because of pick up groups, attending other guilds raids etc. You know how many people Ive befriended soloing? 0.0
you know how many friends I made by going outside? more then you made in a computer game i bet. and by friends i mean people you actually met. in real life. you know, that place thats all bright and scary?
also, grouping got more people on my ignore list then on my friend list. so i blame you, the groupers!
If you stand VERY still, and close your eyes, after a minute you can actually FEEL the universe revolving around PvP.
Yup.
Group content should warrent getting a group. Camping mob spawns and running the same dungeons over and over are just not worth it. Thats why they added loot rewards, which is nice for the people who group. But there is another problem, not everyone really cares about this uber loot thing, specially at lower than raid level. When it comes to early and middle game experience, a lot of people end up skipping those dungeons because the loot you would get, while better than anything else its level, would only last you about 5 levels at max.
Now look at low/mid level dungeon loot drops from games like EQ. You could pretty much always use that item (say about 10-20 levels worth of use) and it would last a while because the levels were just long enough that even while group blitzing mob spawns it still took forever to level.
New games try to hint at leveling by offering up neat shiney items at below raid level (low/mid game levels) but the items themselves really have no value because you out grow them faster than my kid out grows shoes. That in itself lends to people not really bothering with grouping because teh reward isnt something worth shooting for. This is where game design and itemization fails the group player. Its not the solo palyers fault, its just lazy game design. People like me who like to solo really dont care if groupers get better loot (they put in the effort thus they deserve it). But when the reward isnt worth it, grouping loses its draw and more people just go about soloing.
So dont blame the soloer, blame the designers. All we solo types want is content, but not at the cost of killing a whole playstyle.
There are 3 types of people in the world.
1.) Those who make things happen
2.) Those who watch things happen
3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
i think its simply what has more XP/hour, and personally i would like grouping to have more xp/hour because ive tried both styles of gameplay and i find grouping to be more fun then soloing.
I have made a lot of friends because of pick up groups, attending other guilds raids etc. You know how many people Ive befriended soloing? 0.0
you know how many friends I made by going outside? more then you made in a computer game i bet. and by friends i mean people you actually met. in real life. you know, that place thats all bright and scary?
Given how you handle yourself here, I have a hard time believing you have a friend that exists outside your imagination.
i think its simply what has more XP/hour, and personally i would like grouping to have more xp/hour because ive tried both styles of gameplay and i find grouping to be more fun then soloing.
I have made a lot of friends because of pick up groups, attending other guilds raids etc. You know how many people Ive befriended soloing? 0.0
you know how many friends I made by going outside? more then you made in a computer game i bet. and by friends i mean people you actually met. in real life. you know, that place thats all bright and scary?
Given how you handle yourself here, I have a hard time believing you have a friend that exists outside your imagination.
right back at ya!
If you stand VERY still, and close your eyes, after a minute you can actually FEEL the universe revolving around PvP.
Yup.
Group content should warrent getting a group. Camping mob spawns and running the same dungeons over and over are just not worth it. Thats why they added loot rewards, which is nice for the people who group. But there is another problem, not everyone really cares about this uber loot thing, specially at lower than raid level. When it comes to early and middle game experience, a lot of people end up skipping those dungeons because the loot you would get, while better than anything else its level, would only last you about 5 levels at max.
Now look at low/mid level dungeon loot drops from games like EQ. You could pretty much always use that item (say about 10-20 levels worth of use) and it would last a while because the levels were just long enough that even while group blitzing mob spawns it still took forever to level.
New games try to hint at leveling by offering up neat shiney items at below raid level (low/mid game levels) but the items themselves really have no value because you out grow them faster than my kid out grows shoes. That in itself lends to people not really bothering with grouping because teh reward isnt something worth shooting for. This is where game design and itemization fails the group player. Its not the solo palyers fault, its just lazy game design. People like me who like to solo really dont care if groupers get better loot (they put in the effort thus they deserve it). But when the reward isnt worth it, grouping loses its draw and more people just go about soloing.
So dont blame the soloer, blame the designers. All we solo types want is content, but not at the cost of killing a whole playstyle.
Excellent post, and I agree completely.
I am all for groups getting better loot than someone can obtain solo. Like you said, they deserve it because they worked for it. I would be content with a lesser version obtainable solo.
Acidon
I will go ahead and post too.
The "Group Lovers" are far from being the freaks and actually happens to represent a decent amount of the "Veteran" Gamers. Having experienced the true meaning in MMORPG and enjoying grouping since then, they suddenly face a Wall we call Mainstream.
Basically, Since MMO turned Mainstream, the industry had to adapt itself to offers the more casual players a mean to play without the constant need to look for a group as they have very strict schedule. Perfect exemple is WoW who made solo-ing through content so easy that you can reach Lv.80 in a week as Casual Player (ok...2 weeks).
Main issue here is that while Mainstream took place, those "Group-Lovers" were left behind. Forced to play games that have been ruined through various expansions *cough cough* UO and SWG *cough cough*, they find themselves being pushed into Mainstream market and cannot find what they have loved and cherrished for so long, Grouping.
If you look at it carefully, name all the mainstream games that are Group-Friendly (where grouping actually MAKES a difference instead of just creating a second chat tab) and we're not talking about forced Raid to grind Epic Armor. Look at the games those designers used to play.....it's....nothing special, just the mainstream stuff (in most cases)
Now if you look at Indie Companies, they still cherrish the old UO days or whatever MUD they used to play. They loved the grouping factor and they are all makings Group-Focused games for the "Group-Lovers" (EVE, etc).
Seriously, Group-Lovers were not Freaks in the past, they were forced into a cage by the MainStream and shown at local circus next to the woman with a beard and the two-headed kid. "Boy I sure am happy not to be like them, look at how they behave! They enjoy grouping in a Massively Multiplayer Online Game! So weird!"
Mainstream killed the genre in my opinion.
Yup.
Group content should warrent getting a group. Camping mob spawns and running the same dungeons over and over are just not worth it. Thats why they added loot rewards, which is nice for the people who group. But there is another problem, not everyone really cares about this uber loot thing, specially at lower than raid level. When it comes to early and middle game experience, a lot of people end up skipping those dungeons because the loot you would get, while better than anything else its level, would only last you about 5 levels at max.
Now look at low/mid level dungeon loot drops from games like EQ. You could pretty much always use that item (say about 10-20 levels worth of use) and it would last a while because the levels were just long enough that even while group blitzing mob spawns it still took forever to level.
New games try to hint at leveling by offering up neat shiney items at below raid level (low/mid game levels) but the items themselves really have no value because you out grow them faster than my kid out grows shoes. That in itself lends to people not really bothering with grouping because teh reward isnt something worth shooting for. This is where game design and itemization fails the group player. Its not the solo palyers fault, its just lazy game design. People like me who like to solo really dont care if groupers get better loot (they put in the effort thus they deserve it). But when the reward isnt worth it, grouping loses its draw and more people just go about soloing.
So dont blame the soloer, blame the designers. All we solo types want is content, but not at the cost of killing a whole playstyle.
Excellent post, and I agree completely.
I am all for groups getting better loot than someone can obtain solo. Like you said, they deserve it because they worked for it. I would be content with a lesser version obtainable solo.
Acidon
Right on, thats exactly the point ive been trying to make. Sure let them have their solo time, but make it SO much better to group in terms of xp and loot that it makes it painful to solo.
That second M in MMO is for Multiplayer.
If you don't want to play with others there are plenty of single player games available.
Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do.
Benjamin Franklin
It doesn't follow that people who group work any harder than people who solo. In my experience many people who group are afk leeches and it's easier to complete the same level content in group than solo beacuse there's much more margin for error. If you screw up in a group someone else can take up the slack. Solo it's just your tough luck.
Afk leech really? I dont see that in games I play. Could you please specify what game you had problems with this?