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Group-lovers: the REAL freaks in the MMO world...?
chrisel
Member UncommonPosts: 990
Seriously!
With all this nagging from the "group-lovers" about how they fail to understand why people like to solo, I have started to wonder if I missed something vital in the MMO world; Are there no MMO's left where you are allowed to group? All the MMO's I have played so far, have some sort of feature that allows players to form groups so they can play & quest together.
Has this changed lately? Or maybe, these "group-lovers" have become the real freaks of the MMO's...? Therefore they are die hard desperate to tell the MMO world that it IS okay to have fetisch on forced-grouping, and "that" should be the main feature of every MMO?
To me, as been into the MMO world for around 10 years now, has seen that MMO's which forced people into grouping to be able to play the game, have been either a failure OR has been deserted (epsecially after WoW release). Such games have become obsolete, plain & simple. Forced-grouping will NEVER be a major feature of any MMO that has ambition nor ability to rival World of Warcraft.
Mark my words.
Make us care MORE about our faction & world pvp!
Comments
I'm fine with those who prefer to group... it's the one who hate solo players that boggle my mind.
There does seem to be too much emphasis on soloing in MMOs lately. It's not necessarily a bad thing to offer channels of gameplay within an MMO that are presented in a solo friendly fashion, but it's getting to the point where there's increasingly little to no reason to even bother grouping with other players, let alone interact with them.
If being "fun" isn't enough of a reason, then what is the point?
When all/most of the content is geared and balanced towards being soloable, it tends to become trivial when faced by a group. Things that have no challenge aren't fun -- for normal people anyways.
Well, first of all, many of those MMORPGs which "require" grouping lost subscribers because they were simply old games, not only because of World of Warcraft. Secondly, it's important that you understand the clear distinction between "loving groups" (as you put it) and forced grouping. Just because many of us want to see an increased focus on grouping in MMORPGs doesn't mean we want that to be the only method of advancement. As a full time college student, I relish the ability to solo, but at the same time, these games (especially the older ones) get darn boring when all I ever do is solo. It is my belief (putting this in here since I keep getting bashed by idiots for trying to state my opinions as facts), that a game should allow players to solo all they want but players should be heavily encouraged to group with others should the have the opportunity.
Well, first of all, many of those MMORPGs which "require" grouping lost subscribers because they were simply old games, not only because of World of Warcraft. Secondly, it's important that you understand the clear distinction between "loving groups" (as you put it) and forced grouping. Just because many of us want to see an increased focus on grouping in MMORPGs doesn't mean we want that to be the only method of advancement. As a full time college student, I relish the ability to solo, but at the same time, these games (especially the older ones) get darn boring when all I ever do is solo. It is my belief (putting this in here since I keep getting bashed by idiots for trying to state my opinions as facts), that a game should allow players to solo all they want but players should be heavily encouraged to group with others should the have the opportunity.
This is the perfect example... he wants to "allow" us to solo, but "encourage" grouping. He doesn't want equality for both styles of gameplay, he wants his style to be focused on, to be encouraged, and to be the most rewarded.
Well, first of all, many of those MMORPGs which "require" grouping lost subscribers because they were simply old games, not only because of World of Warcraft. Secondly, it's important that you understand the clear distinction between "loving groups" (as you put it) and forced grouping. Just because many of us want to see an increased focus on grouping in MMORPGs doesn't mean we want that to be the only method of advancement. As a full time college student, I relish the ability to solo, but at the same time, these games (especially the older ones) get darn boring when all I ever do is solo. It is my belief (putting this in here since I keep getting bashed by idiots for trying to state my opinions as facts), that a game should allow players to solo all they want but players should be heavily encouraged to group with others should the have the opportunity.
Agreed. I love all 3 different playstyles (solo, group and raid). MMO's should continue to allow a choice with appropriate incentives to do each. It IS possible, but not if they follow the "Raid > Group > Solo" mentality. There could be three distinct paths, each with incentives to progress down and each with its own set of requirements that the player needs to fullfill.
As a rough example, an item A could be obtained via the 3 different playstyles. And chances are that a player will get it within:
PLEASE NOTE THAT THIS IS JUST A ROUGH EXAMPLE, NOTHING MORE! The point is, each set of particular requirements are balanced to be no easier to do (relatively speaking) than the other paths given the potency of the reward in question.
Top 10 Most Misused Words in MMO's
I blame poor game design.
When designing quests, devs really only make solo quests with maybe 1 or 2 group needed parts toward the end of a chain.
Soloing is fine, as is grouping. MMO designers need to understand that there is a need for both playstyles. Right now they seem focused on 'Leveling and questing = soloable content and Dungeon and Raid content = Group content'.
Why cant devs incorporate some system where groups can form and pick up some randomly generated quest? It could be a randomly generated dungeon that allows the group to run through for more XP and money, sort of a benefit for grouping that wont end up in people siiting in LFG waiting for an invite to one of the 5 possible static instances that the level range offers. Save those instances for loot drops and the such.
What they could do is like each town having a sherif or other law enforcement figure who will give a group a quest/mission to track down and fight a criminal. The mission can auto adjust to the level of the group and by how many group members there are, to prevent people from grabbing easier missions. The mission could be set in a multi-leveled instance that could test a group by throwing waves of mobs/NPCs at them. When they finish and turn in the quest they will be rewarded with a better XP reward than one that someone would get by soloing.
There are 3 types of people in the world.
1.) Those who make things happen
2.) Those who watch things happen
3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
Well, first of all, many of those MMORPGs which "require" grouping lost subscribers because they were simply old games, not only because of World of Warcraft. Secondly, it's important that you understand the clear distinction between "loving groups" (as you put it) and forced grouping. Just because many of us want to see an increased focus on grouping in MMORPGs doesn't mean we want that to be the only method of advancement. As a full time college student, I relish the ability to solo, but at the same time, these games (especially the older ones) get darn boring when all I ever do is solo. It is my belief (putting this in here since I keep getting bashed by idiots for trying to state my opinions as facts), that a game should allow players to solo all they want but players should be heavily encouraged to group with others should the have the opportunity.
This is the perfect example... he wants to "allow" us to solo, but "encourage" grouping. He doesn't want equality for both styles of gameplay, he wants his style to be focused on, to be encouraged, and to be the most rewarded.
That's only because if players are not encouraged to group with each other, they won't group.
Well, first of all, many of those MMORPGs which "require" grouping lost subscribers because they were simply old games, not only because of World of Warcraft. Secondly, it's important that you understand the clear distinction between "loving groups" (as you put it) and forced grouping. Just because many of us want to see an increased focus on grouping in MMORPGs doesn't mean we want that to be the only method of advancement. As a full time college student, I relish the ability to solo, but at the same time, these games (especially the older ones) get darn boring when all I ever do is solo. It is my belief (putting this in here since I keep getting bashed by idiots for trying to state my opinions as facts), that a game should allow players to solo all they want but players should be heavily encouraged to group with others should the have the opportunity.
This is the perfect example... he wants to "allow" us to solo, but "encourage" grouping. He doesn't want equality for both styles of gameplay, he wants his style to be focused on, to be encouraged, and to be the most rewarded.
That's only because if players are not encouraged to group with each other, they won't group.
That's simply untrue. I have grouped countless times for many reasons. For fun? Just to be nice? Cuz I was bored?
Well, first of all, many of those MMORPGs which "require" grouping lost subscribers because they were simply old games, not only because of World of Warcraft. Secondly, it's important that you understand the clear distinction between "loving groups" (as you put it) and forced grouping. Just because many of us want to see an increased focus on grouping in MMORPGs doesn't mean we want that to be the only method of advancement. As a full time college student, I relish the ability to solo, but at the same time, these games (especially the older ones) get darn boring when all I ever do is solo. It is my belief (putting this in here since I keep getting bashed by idiots for trying to state my opinions as facts), that a game should allow players to solo all they want but players should be heavily encouraged to group with others should the have the opportunity.
This is the perfect example... he wants to "allow" us to solo, but "encourage" grouping. He doesn't want equality for both styles of gameplay, he wants his style to be focused on, to be encouraged, and to be the most rewarded.
That's only because if players are not encouraged to group with each other, they won't group.
That's simply untrue. I have grouped countless times for many reasons. For fun? Just to be nice? Cuz I was bored?
There's the catch though, grouping requires other people to group. Even though you or I may feel like grouping, the umpteen other people playing the game may just want to solo. Grouping is rather difficult to achieve without a group.
the group advocates are full of shit. all they like is the loot, not the grouping. thats why when some1 tells them if they dont do it for fun then whats the point, they come up with "oh but its not challenging". bullshit. they want that phat loot, and they want it to be available to them and nobody else.
- you can group in any game.
-but its not rewarding to group.
-ah, so its not about grouping then. its about the rewards.
-well... yes.
-then fuck you.
this is how i see it. sorry.
If you stand VERY still, and close your eyes, after a minute you can actually FEEL the universe revolving around PvP.
The people who actually want to play in a group do so. Just about every MMO has some type of group mechanic. Lack of people forming groups in any certain game would lead me to suspect that a lot of people just don't want to group. It really doesn't make too much sense to force a player to group if they don't enjoy it. You have to focus the gameplay on what the customers enjoy.
Last I checked, soloable mobs tend to get steamrolled when you come at them with a group, so yes, it's not challenging. And there are plenty of times when I'd like to do group content for fun, but no one else was around that wanted to, they all just wanted to solo.
Well, first of all, many of those MMORPGs which "require" grouping lost subscribers because they were simply old games, not only because of World of Warcraft. Secondly, it's important that you understand the clear distinction between "loving groups" (as you put it) and forced grouping. Just because many of us want to see an increased focus on grouping in MMORPGs doesn't mean we want that to be the only method of advancement. As a full time college student, I relish the ability to solo, but at the same time, these games (especially the older ones) get darn boring when all I ever do is solo. It is my belief (putting this in here since I keep getting bashed by idiots for trying to state my opinions as facts), that a game should allow players to solo all they want but players should be heavily encouraged to group with others should the have the opportunity.
This is the perfect example... he wants to "allow" us to solo, but "encourage" grouping. He doesn't want equality for both styles of gameplay, he wants his style to be focused on, to be encouraged, and to be the most rewarded.
Well first off let me give you a quick history lesson, The Original games that created the MMO crazy were heavily group focused. they offered little solo content and the major rewards required grouping. So old time players that enjoyed the games that founded the genre commonly complain that MMOs are being dumbed down and made easier to appeal to the a larger less desirable game audience. In group heavy games, players that can't play well with others get weeded out quickly where solo games foster gametards as can be seen in Barren's chat.
I think solo content and group content both have their place in MMOs and I think that rewards for both should be scaled to reflect the amount of effort and risk the player/players go through. So if there is a quest that requires 10 players that are organized and play well together to compete then the reward should be greater than a quest that can be solo'ed.
Thats a ridiculous notion sir.
much like a guitar player, you learn what you need to on your own, but the end goal is to play in a band with other people.
What you newer players seem to have forgotten is that in UO and EQ, socializing came first, "phat lewt" came second.
But unfortunately todays nerds are just like the asshole jocks that we wanted to seperate ourselves from to begin with.
All attitude, no compassion.
Last I checked, soloable mobs tend to get steamrolled when you come at them with a group, so yes, it's not challenging. And there are plenty of times when I'd like to do group content for fun, but no one else was around that wanted to, they all just wanted to solo.
so instead of pulling 1 mob, pull 10. theres a challenge.
If you stand VERY still, and close your eyes, after a minute you can actually FEEL the universe revolving around PvP.
Well, first of all, many of those MMORPGs which "require" grouping lost subscribers because they were simply old games, not only because of World of Warcraft. Secondly, it's important that you understand the clear distinction between "loving groups" (as you put it) and forced grouping. Just because many of us want to see an increased focus on grouping in MMORPGs doesn't mean we want that to be the only method of advancement. As a full time college student, I relish the ability to solo, but at the same time, these games (especially the older ones) get darn boring when all I ever do is solo. It is my belief (putting this in here since I keep getting bashed by idiots for trying to state my opinions as facts), that a game should allow players to solo all they want but players should be heavily encouraged to group with others should the have the opportunity.
This is the perfect example... he wants to "allow" us to solo, but "encourage" grouping. He doesn't want equality for both styles of gameplay, he wants his style to be focused on, to be encouraged, and to be the most rewarded.
That's only because if players are not encouraged to group with each other, they won't group.
That's simply untrue. I have grouped countless times for many reasons. For fun? Just to be nice? Cuz I was bored?
Well, so have I, but we hardly speak for the masses.
All in all though, I'm simply going by experience here, and I think there's a good reason why I was grouping with players a LOT more in games like LoTRO and Vanguard than I ever did in WoW (like three times from 1 - 45 unless I start my own groups) because grouping was encouraged all while soloing was a perfectly viable option to advancing your character. I'm not talking about groups of 1 - 3 players. I mean full, serious groups for XP or dungeon loot. Of course, even in those games which heavily encourage grouping, I still found myself soloing at least 75% of the time I spent playing the game. I'd say (again, expressing my opinion for the idiots in the room) this is because human beings are naturally selfish creatures, and most of us aren't as concerned with grouping for the "fun of it" or for social concerns. We simply want the end result, and when the end result can be obtained without having to deal with other players, which can actually be unpleasant at times, we're going to stick to playing the game by ourselves. I highly doubt it's because 95% of the population of an MMO are casual players with only 30 minutes a day to play, men or women over the age of 65 who like to pretend they're playing a single player RPG, or people paranoid of grouping with players they don't know. I think if that were the case, we'd see a great increase in the amount of LFG shouts across all MMORPGs.
When we are forced to actually interact with others, at times we realize that we may have been wrong in some cases and that not everyone who we don't know in real life or everyone who isn't in our guild is a totally incompetant idiot, and there are several players out there who are just as knowledgable about the game and just as skilled as we are. Hey, perhaps a friend or two can be made as well.
Well, first of all, many of those MMORPGs which "require" grouping lost subscribers because they were simply old games, not only because of World of Warcraft. Secondly, it's important that you understand the clear distinction between "loving groups" (as you put it) and forced grouping. Just because many of us want to see an increased focus on grouping in MMORPGs doesn't mean we want that to be the only method of advancement. As a full time college student, I relish the ability to solo, but at the same time, these games (especially the older ones) get darn boring when all I ever do is solo. It is my belief (putting this in here since I keep getting bashed by idiots for trying to state my opinions as facts), that a game should allow players to solo all they want but players should be heavily encouraged to group with others should the have the opportunity.
This is the perfect example... he wants to "allow" us to solo, but "encourage" grouping. He doesn't want equality for both styles of gameplay, he wants his style to be focused on, to be encouraged, and to be the most rewarded.
That's only because if players are not encouraged to group with each other, they won't group.
Problem with grouping is that it pretty much boils down to the whole 'Hurry up and wait' thing. The group forms fast and the destination is chosen.
But then once the playing actually starts, someone goes AFK. Then while that person is AFK, someone else goes AFK for a bio break. Then someone gets bored of waiting/runs out of time and leaves the group. Another player responds with 'Brb' in group chat.
Next one of the AFKers comes back and starts complaining about the person who left and about having to find someone to replace them.
Only problem is that atm, one of the other people who went AFK also has lead. So now your waiting for that person to come back to fill the spot. The person who just came back from AFK now decideds to run to town while waiting so they can make an item for a guildie.
Now the leader is back and notices that someone is still AFK, another has left and the other member is now in town and will be busy for about 10 minutes. He then starts looking through LFG to find a replacement for the person who left, and while doing so the player who is still afk quietly drops group.
Now your waiting for someone to come back from helping their guildie and for the leader to find 2 replacements, which isnt going too well atm because no one is responding.
This happens way too often in games and causes a lot of frustration with grouping, which is why a lot of people tend to solo as much as they can just for the sake of sanity and conservation of time.
There are 3 types of people in the world.
1.) Those who make things happen
2.) Those who watch things happen
3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
Thats a ridiculous notion sir.
much like a guitar player, you learn what you need to on your own, but the end goal is to play in a band with other people.
What you newer players seem to have forgotten is that in UO and EQ, socializing came first, "phat lewt" came second.
But unfortunately todays nerds are just like the asshole jocks that we wanted to seperate ourselves from to begin with.
All attitude, no compassion.
and I argue that you can still socialize in todays mmos, can you not? find like minded individuals like yourself and problem solved. and no, plenty of people learn to play an instrument with no aspirations to play in a band.
If you stand VERY still, and close your eyes, after a minute you can actually FEEL the universe revolving around PvP.
Last I checked, soloable mobs tend to get steamrolled when you come at them with a group, so yes, it's not challenging. And there are plenty of times when I'd like to do group content for fun, but no one else was around that wanted to, they all just wanted to solo.
so instead of pulling 1 mob, pull 10. theres a challenge.
Oh so I see, you just want the people who want group content just have to adapt and make their own difficulty. Isn't that just a arrogant and self serving as the 'group advocates that are full of shit'?
Well, first of all, many of those MMORPGs which "require" grouping lost subscribers because they were simply old games, not only because of World of Warcraft. Secondly, it's important that you understand the clear distinction between "loving groups" (as you put it) and forced grouping. Just because many of us want to see an increased focus on grouping in MMORPGs doesn't mean we want that to be the only method of advancement. As a full time college student, I relish the ability to solo, but at the same time, these games (especially the older ones) get darn boring when all I ever do is solo. It is my belief (putting this in here since I keep getting bashed by idiots for trying to state my opinions as facts), that a game should allow players to solo all they want but players should be heavily encouraged to group with others should the have the opportunity.
This is the perfect example... he wants to "allow" us to solo, but "encourage" grouping. He doesn't want equality for both styles of gameplay, he wants his style to be focused on, to be encouraged, and to be the most rewarded.
That's only because if players are not encouraged to group with each other, they won't group.
Problem with grouping is that it pretty much boils down to the whole 'Hurry up and wait' thing. The group forms fast and the destination is chosen.
But then once the playing actually starts, someone goes AFK. Then while that person is AFK, someone else goes AFK for a bio break. Then someone gets bored of waiting/runs out of time and leaves the group. Another player responds with 'Brb' in group chat.
Next one of the AFKers comes back and starts complaining about the person who left and about having to find someone to replace them.
Only problem is that atm, one of the other people who went AFK also has lead. So now your waiting for that person to come back to fill the spot. The person who just came back from AFK now decideds to run to town while waiting so they can make an item for a guildie.
Now the leader is back and notices that someone is still AFK, another has left and the other member is now in town and will be busy for about 10 minutes. He then starts looking through LFG to find a replacement for the person who left, and while doing so the player who is still afk quietly drops group.
Now your waiting for someone to come back from helping their guildie and for the leader to find 2 replacements, which isnt going too well atm because no one is responding.
This happens way too often in games and causes a lot of frustration with grouping, which is why a lot of people tend to solo as much as they can just for the sake of sanity and conservation of time.
Are you serious? 10 years Ive played every big MMO out there, and I cant recall that Ive ever seen that happen. I call shenannigans. You went way overboard and landed in fantasy land trying to prove your point.
Last I checked, soloable mobs tend to get steamrolled when you come at them with a group, so yes, it's not challenging. And there are plenty of times when I'd like to do group content for fun, but no one else was around that wanted to, they all just wanted to solo.
so instead of pulling 1 mob, pull 10. theres a challenge.
Oh so I see, you just want the people who want group content just have to adapt and make their own difficulty. Isn't that just a arrogant and self serving as the 'group advocates that are full of shit'?
name one mmo that doesnt have group content. also name one that doesnt already reward group content better then solo content. you are the ones who already have the pie, not the soloers.
yet, you're the ones who keep bitching just because some people prefer to play the game in a different way.
If you stand VERY still, and close your eyes, after a minute you can actually FEEL the universe revolving around PvP.
Thats a ridiculous notion sir.
much like a guitar player, you learn what you need to on your own, but the end goal is to play in a band with other people.
What you newer players seem to have forgotten is that in UO and EQ, socializing came first, "phat lewt" came second.
But unfortunately todays nerds are just like the asshole jocks that we wanted to seperate ourselves from to begin with.
All attitude, no compassion.
and I argue that you can still socialize in todays mmos, can you not? find like minded individuals like yourself and problem solved. and no, plenty of people learn to play an instrument with no aspirations to play in a band.
Whats the point of socializing and not doing anything together, why the fuck would I bother? I could play a console game and text people I know, same difference right?
And trust me, no one gives a rats ass about a person who sits in his basement playing an instrument that no one will ever hear. But just about everyone knows who Jimmy Hendrix, Stevie Ray Vaughn, and hell Kurt Cobain are.
Ultimately if you dont learn to play an instrument in a band, then you will never really learn how to play an instrument.
Same thing goes for MMO's if you never group, then theres a whole untapped part of the game that you are plain ignorant of.
Thats a ridiculous notion sir.
much like a guitar player, you learn what you need to on your own, but the end goal is to play in a band with other people.
What you newer players seem to have forgotten is that in UO and EQ, socializing came first, "phat lewt" came second.
But unfortunately todays nerds are just like the asshole jocks that we wanted to seperate ourselves from to begin with.
All attitude, no compassion.
and I argue that you can still socialize in todays mmos, can you not? find like minded individuals like yourself and problem solved. and no, plenty of people learn to play an instrument with no aspirations to play in a band.
Whats the point of socializing and not doing anything together, why the fuck would I bother? I could play a console game and text people I know, same difference right?
And trust me, no one gives a rats ass about a person who sits in his basement playing an instrument that no one will ever hear. But everyone knows who Jimmy Hendrix is.
whats the point of socializing? you should know, you brought it up. like I said, all mmos have group content. go play them. and not everyone needs to be famous to feel accomplished as a human being.
If you stand VERY still, and close your eyes, after a minute you can actually FEEL the universe revolving around PvP.