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Group-lovers: the REAL freaks in the MMO world...?
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Well, first of all, many of those MMORPGs which "require" grouping lost subscribers because they were simply old games, not only because of World of Warcraft. Secondly, it's important that you understand the clear distinction between "loving groups" (as you put it) and forced grouping. Just because many of us want to see an increased focus on grouping in MMORPGs doesn't mean we want that to be the only method of advancement. As a full time college student, I relish the ability to solo, but at the same time, these games (especially the older ones) get darn boring when all I ever do is solo. It is my belief (putting this in here since I keep getting bashed by idiots for trying to state my opinions as facts), that a game should allow players to solo all they want but players should be heavily encouraged to group with others should the have the opportunity.
This is the perfect example... he wants to "allow" us to solo, but "encourage" grouping. He doesn't want equality for both styles of gameplay, he wants his style to be focused on, to be encouraged, and to be the most rewarded.
That's only because if players are not encouraged to group with each other, they won't group.
Problem with grouping is that it pretty much boils down to the whole 'Hurry up and wait' thing. The group forms fast and the destination is chosen.
But then once the playing actually starts, someone goes AFK. Then while that person is AFK, someone else goes AFK for a bio break. Then someone gets bored of waiting/runs out of time and leaves the group. Another player responds with 'Brb' in group chat.
Next one of the AFKers comes back and starts complaining about the person who left and about having to find someone to replace them.
Only problem is that atm, one of the other people who went AFK also has lead. So now your waiting for that person to come back to fill the spot. The person who just came back from AFK now decideds to run to town while waiting so they can make an item for a guildie.
Now the leader is back and notices that someone is still AFK, another has left and the other member is now in town and will be busy for about 10 minutes. He then starts looking through LFG to find a replacement for the person who left, and while doing so the player who is still afk quietly drops group.
Now your waiting for someone to come back from helping their guildie and for the leader to find 2 replacements, which isnt going too well atm because no one is responding.
This happens way too often in games and causes a lot of frustration with grouping, which is why a lot of people tend to solo as much as they can just for the sake of sanity and conservation of time.
Unlike the last guy, I get that your illustration was an exageration (which I hope it was), and I see your point, but that IS the point.
Grouping with other players can be a time consuming pain in the (well, you know), and that's exactly why most players aren't going to bother with it unless they're forced to for certain aspects of the game. That said, I don't think I'm asking any more out of a soloer to be forced to group with me for one quest every ten levels than he is asking of me to play a game where I solo on every other occasion. It's balance. Without encouragement to group, players won't group and the balance gets thrown out of whack in favor of the soloers. Sure, we "can" still group with others any time we want. We "can" socialize any time we want, but when there's no real motivation for doing so, most players are going to take the path of least resistance and continue to solo.
A lot of that has to do with the socially inept, semi-literate, inarticulate XP/Gear leeches that seem to form far too large a part of the gaming community. I dare say there are many people out there that would be fun to group with, but sorting the wheat from the chaff is too much of a soul-destroying chore. I got burnt out with all that in MMOs many, many years ago. I wish it was otherwise, but it isn't, at least for me.
Thats a ridiculous notion sir.
much like a guitar player, you learn what you need to on your own, but the end goal is to play in a band with other people.
What you newer players seem to have forgotten is that in UO and EQ, socializing came first, "phat lewt" came second.
But unfortunately todays nerds are just like the asshole jocks that we wanted to seperate ourselves from to begin with.
All attitude, no compassion.
Actually when we played UO back in 96-97 there was a lot of people out soloing things like skills (leveling up). In EQ at launch you had people soloing quite often. Grouping in those games were only really needed for running dungeons and getting loot. That or gank sqauds in UO :P
In EQ it was all about hitting cap 1st at release. Then people discovered the whole uber loot thing and you'd end up with seeing the same groups camping the same spot for hours upon hours in hopes of getting that 1 piece of loot. And sure they socialized, but what else was there to do?
There are 3 types of people in the world.
1.) Those who make things happen
2.) Those who watch things happen
3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
Thats a ridiculous notion sir.
much like a guitar player, you learn what you need to on your own, but the end goal is to play in a band with other people.
What you newer players seem to have forgotten is that in UO and EQ, socializing came first, "phat lewt" came second.
But unfortunately todays nerds are just like the asshole jocks that we wanted to seperate ourselves from to begin with.
All attitude, no compassion.
and I argue that you can still socialize in todays mmos, can you not? find like minded individuals like yourself and problem solved. and no, plenty of people learn to play an instrument with no aspirations to play in a band.
Whats the point of socializing and not doing anything together, why the fuck would I bother? I could play a console game and text people I know, same difference right?
And trust me, no one gives a rats ass about a person who sits in his basement playing an instrument that no one will ever hear. But everyone knows who Jimmy Hendrix is.
whats the point of socializing? you should know, you brought it up. like I said, all mmos have group content. go play them. and not everyone needs to be famous to feel accomplished as a human being.
whats the point of team sports? whats the point of having relationships when yo ucan just sit in your sad lonely basement proving how great you are at things youll never once get recognition for.
And no, not everyone needs to been famous to feel accomplished as a human being, but an anti social basement dweller is about as far away from a human as you can get.
Humans are social animals.
Last I checked, soloable mobs tend to get steamrolled when you come at them with a group, so yes, it's not challenging. And there are plenty of times when I'd like to do group content for fun, but no one else was around that wanted to, they all just wanted to solo.
so instead of pulling 1 mob, pull 10. theres a challenge.
Oh so I see, you just want the people who want group content just have to adapt and make their own difficulty. Isn't that just a arrogant and self serving as the 'group advocates that are full of shit'?
name one mmo that doesnt have group content. also name one that doesnt already reward group content better then solo content. you are the ones who already have the pie, not the soloers.
Originally Ultima Online was a game where you could literally solo anything, so there's one. It was later changed to add group content because it was so incredibly lacking in that department, and even then it was 4 or so years after release that they even gave any incentive to group.
I'm not a 'grouping' advocate either. I'm a moderation kind of guy. I like to solo, and I like to group. I feel that both should be viable throughout an MMO, and in endgame advancement. But there needs to be balance and some type of incentive to group, whether it's a higher chance at a drop, or whatever. That way it doesn't force you to group, but it at least gives a reason to. Why? Because not everyone feels like grouping or soloing at the same time, so you have to encourage people to be flexible, otherwise they will always fall to the path of least resistance, which is soloing if you make both exactly equal in terms of difficulty and pay out.
If being "fun" isn't enough of a reason, then what is the point?
If you don't have fun grouping all the time you are playing the wrong genre of game.
Originally posted by Scagweed22
is it the graphics? the repetativenesses? i mean what is the point? you could be so much more productive in real life
Real life brings repetition and pointlessness too. The only thing real life offers is Great graphics. Its kinda expensive too and way to dependent on the cash shop. Totally pay to win as well. No thank you. Ill stick to my games.
Thats a ridiculous notion sir.
much like a guitar player, you learn what you need to on your own, but the end goal is to play in a band with other people.
What you newer players seem to have forgotten is that in UO and EQ, socializing came first, "phat lewt" came second.
But unfortunately todays nerds are just like the asshole jocks that we wanted to seperate ourselves from to begin with.
All attitude, no compassion.
Actually when we played UO back in 96-97 there was a lot of people out soloing things like skills (leveling up). In EQ at launch you had people soloing quite often. Grouping in those games were only really needed for running dungeons and getting loot. That or gank sqauds in UO :P
In EQ it was all about hitting cap 1st at release. Then people discovered the whole uber loot thing and you'd end up with seeing the same groups camping the same spot for hours upon hours in hopes of getting that 1 piece of loot. And sure they socialized, but what else was there to do?
Im not sure what server you played on, but I didnt start EQ til right before Kunark came out. I had a guild of about 20 people, and we did far more socializing than fretting about our uber gear. There was always plenty to do, but we didnt feel the need to rush out and do it for some maligned sense of pride in rubbing your fellow players faces in your accomplishments.
Thats a ridiculous notion sir.
much like a guitar player, you learn what you need to on your own, but the end goal is to play in a band with other people.
What you newer players seem to have forgotten is that in UO and EQ, socializing came first, "phat lewt" came second.
But unfortunately todays nerds are just like the asshole jocks that we wanted to seperate ourselves from to begin with.
All attitude, no compassion.
and I argue that you can still socialize in todays mmos, can you not? find like minded individuals like yourself and problem solved. and no, plenty of people learn to play an instrument with no aspirations to play in a band.
LoL, you do realize that MMOs by their very nature and design are meant to be played WITH other people.
Most developers do support solo play, but a solo player can not accomplish as much as a group of players. Thats why the best rewards are reserved for groups, aka Raids, Heroics, etc....
Thats a ridiculous notion sir.
much like a guitar player, you learn what you need to on your own, but the end goal is to play in a band with other people.
What you newer players seem to have forgotten is that in UO and EQ, socializing came first, "phat lewt" came second.
But unfortunately todays nerds are just like the asshole jocks that we wanted to seperate ourselves from to begin with.
All attitude, no compassion.
and I argue that you can still socialize in todays mmos, can you not? find like minded individuals like yourself and problem solved. and no, plenty of people learn to play an instrument with no aspirations to play in a band.
Whats the point of socializing and not doing anything together, why the fuck would I bother? I could play a console game and text people I know, same difference right?
And trust me, no one gives a rats ass about a person who sits in his basement playing an instrument that no one will ever hear. But everyone knows who Jimmy Hendrix is.
whats the point of socializing? you should know, you brought it up. like I said, all mmos have group content. go play them. and not everyone needs to be famous to feel accomplished as a human being.
whats the point of team sports? whats the point of having relationships when yo ucan just sit in your sad lonely basement proving how great you are at things youll never once get recognition for.
And no, not everyone needs to been famous to feel accomplished as a human being, but an anti social basement dweller is about as far away from a human as you can get.
Humans are social animals.
so everyone that plays an instrument, but isnt famous is an anti social basement dweller? that cute dude.
to end my part in this argument, ill just finish it with this: ill play mmos in any way I damn please and theres nothing you can do about it. so if you see me soloing and refusing to group pisses you off, tough noodles. i have the game developers on my side.
If you stand VERY still, and close your eyes, after a minute you can actually FEEL the universe revolving around PvP.
Problem with grouping is that it pretty much boils down to the whole 'Hurry up and wait' thing. The group forms fast and the destination is chosen.
But then once the playing actually starts, someone goes AFK. Then while that person is AFK, someone else goes AFK for a bio break. Then someone gets bored of waiting/runs out of time and leaves the group. Another player responds with 'Brb' in group chat.
Next one of the AFKers comes back and starts complaining about the person who left and about having to find someone to replace them.
Only problem is that atm, one of the other people who went AFK also has lead. So now your waiting for that person to come back to fill the spot. The person who just came back from AFK now decideds to run to town while waiting so they can make an item for a guildie.
Now the leader is back and notices that someone is still AFK, another has left and the other member is now in town and will be busy for about 10 minutes. He then starts looking through LFG to find a replacement for the person who left, and while doing so the player who is still afk quietly drops group.
Now your waiting for someone to come back from helping their guildie and for the leader to find 2 replacements, which isnt going too well atm because no one is responding.
This happens way too often in games and causes a lot of frustration with grouping, which is why a lot of people tend to solo as much as they can just for the sake of sanity and conservation of time.
Unlike the last guy, I get that your illustration was an exageration (which I hope it was), and I see your point, but that IS the point.
Grouping with other players can be a time consuming pain in the (well, you know), and that's exactly why most players aren't going to bother with it unless they're forced to for certain aspects of the game. That said, I don't think I'm asking any more out of a soloer to be forced to group with me for one quest every ten levels than he is asking of me to play a game where I solo on every other occasion. It's balance. Without encouragement to group, players won't group and the balance gets thrown out of whack in favor of the soloers. Sure, we "can" still group with others any time we want. We "can" socialize any time we want, but when there's no real motivation for doing so, most players are going to take the path of least resistance and continue to solo.
Aye, it was an exageration, but one that people can see the truth in :P
But I agree, its all about game design and the devs of these games seem to equate leveling with solo play and raiding/dungeons with grouping. They really need to make both viable and fun options. And unlike other people I do agree that grouping needs to be more rewarding (not talking about loot wise, but at least more money/XP reward). I also feel taht if your game is class based, Raids should not drop full gear sets for each class or even anything class specific. Class specific gear should be something found outside a raid, something like a class epic quest. Raids should drop generalized loot that will be better than pieces of the class sets (like better wrists or hand pieces, better trinkets and some really cool weapons).
There are 3 types of people in the world.
1.) Those who make things happen
2.) Those who watch things happen
3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
Thats a ridiculous notion sir.
much like a guitar player, you learn what you need to on your own, but the end goal is to play in a band with other people.
What you newer players seem to have forgotten is that in UO and EQ, socializing came first, "phat lewt" came second.
But unfortunately todays nerds are just like the asshole jocks that we wanted to seperate ourselves from to begin with.
All attitude, no compassion.
and I argue that you can still socialize in todays mmos, can you not? find like minded individuals like yourself and problem solved. and no, plenty of people learn to play an instrument with no aspirations to play in a band.
LoL, you do realize that MMOs by their very nature and design are meant to be played WITH other people.
Most developers do support solo play, but a solo player can not accomplish as much as a group of players. Thats why the best rewards are reserved for groups, aka Raids, Heroics, etc....
Thats why I dont understand why people are busting down a team sport into a one man ball and cup routine.
Thats a ridiculous notion sir.
much like a guitar player, you learn what you need to on your own, but the end goal is to play in a band with other people.
What you newer players seem to have forgotten is that in UO and EQ, socializing came first, "phat lewt" came second.
But unfortunately todays nerds are just like the asshole jocks that we wanted to seperate ourselves from to begin with.
All attitude, no compassion.
and I argue that you can still socialize in todays mmos, can you not? find like minded individuals like yourself and problem solved. and no, plenty of people learn to play an instrument with no aspirations to play in a band.
LoL, you do realize that MMOs by their very nature and design are meant to be played WITH other people.
Most developers do support solo play, but a solo player can not accomplish as much as a group of players. Thats why the best rewards are reserved for groups, aka Raids, Heroics, etc....
To play with others does not mean having to be in groups at all times with them.
MMOs were designed to be a social gaming environment, not a 'you should group' environment. Social in no way means having to be with someone else. You are sitting at your PC on a forum talking about a topic with other people. You are not sitting next to them while doing so, nor are you probably doing the same thing while being on teh forum as they are (like right now I am watching CSI).
Guess what? You are sitting there solo in your activities while socializing! The same as what someone playing an MMO solo would be doing while chatting with others. That is the true spirit of MMO gaming. To play in and share a virtual world with multiple other people. Grouping just allows you to maybe find a group of like minded players to accomplish greater things with in game. After all Grouping and Soloing are choices in a game. No where is it defined in any game that you HAVE to group.
There are 3 types of people in the world.
1.) Those who make things happen
2.) Those who watch things happen
3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
Thats a ridiculous notion sir.
much like a guitar player, you learn what you need to on your own, but the end goal is to play in a band with other people.
What you newer players seem to have forgotten is that in UO and EQ, socializing came first, "phat lewt" came second.
But unfortunately todays nerds are just like the asshole jocks that we wanted to seperate ourselves from to begin with.
All attitude, no compassion.
and I argue that you can still socialize in todays mmos, can you not? find like minded individuals like yourself and problem solved. and no, plenty of people learn to play an instrument with no aspirations to play in a band.
LoL, you do realize that MMOs by their very nature and design are meant to be played WITH other people.
Most developers do support solo play, but a solo player can not accomplish as much as a group of players. Thats why the best rewards are reserved for groups, aka Raids, Heroics, etc....
To play with others does not mean having to be in groups at all times with them.
Perhaps, but as you give more people solo content, the less people that will seek groups, the less people that seek groups the less fun the game is for people who want to play MMOs for the social aspect of it.
Its rather selfish to barge into a genre that was based on group play, Its like telling the other players f*** you, I want what I want, and I want it now, who gives a shit if it ruins your time, I want what I want, and I want it now!
Had the genre been based around solo play, then fine, have your way, but it wasnt. Its sad youll piss in someone elses drink because you dont like the basis of MMOs.
Thats a ridiculous notion sir.
much like a guitar player, you learn what you need to on your own, but the end goal is to play in a band with other people.
What you newer players seem to have forgotten is that in UO and EQ, socializing came first, "phat lewt" came second.
But unfortunately todays nerds are just like the asshole jocks that we wanted to seperate ourselves from to begin with.
All attitude, no compassion.
and I argue that you can still socialize in todays mmos, can you not? find like minded individuals like yourself and problem solved. and no, plenty of people learn to play an instrument with no aspirations to play in a band.
LoL, you do realize that MMOs by their very nature and design are meant to be played WITH other people.
Most developers do support solo play, but a solo player can not accomplish as much as a group of players. Thats why the best rewards are reserved for groups, aka Raids, Heroics, etc....
Thats why I dont understand why people are busting down a team sport into a one man ball and cup routine.
Because it's not inherently a team sport.
In MMO is a huge mountain. You can take a nice trail, alone or with friends. You can head for a vertical face and go it alone. You can tie yourself to a few friends and head strait for the top. There's no "right" way to climb the mountain, and everyone is free to enjoy it however they wish.
Thats a ridiculous notion sir.
much like a guitar player, you learn what you need to on your own, but the end goal is to play in a band with other people.
What you newer players seem to have forgotten is that in UO and EQ, socializing came first, "phat lewt" came second.
But unfortunately todays nerds are just like the asshole jocks that we wanted to seperate ourselves from to begin with.
All attitude, no compassion.
and I argue that you can still socialize in todays mmos, can you not? find like minded individuals like yourself and problem solved. and no, plenty of people learn to play an instrument with no aspirations to play in a band.
LoL, you do realize that MMOs by their very nature and design are meant to be played WITH other people.
Most developers do support solo play, but a solo player can not accomplish as much as a group of players. Thats why the best rewards are reserved for groups, aka Raids, Heroics, etc....
Thats why I dont understand why people are busting down a team sport into a one man ball and cup routine.
Because it's not inherently a team sport.
In MMO is a huge mountain. You can take a nice trail, alone or with friends. You can head for a vertical face and go it alone. You can tie yourself to a few friends and head strait for the top. There's no "right" way to climb the mountain, and everyone is free to enjoy it however they wish.
It WAS a team sport. But as more people with an overgrown selfish sense of entitlement filter in the genre demanding that the genre bend THEIR way the more the game suffers. MMO's are dead. And if I wasnt playing with some friends, Id tell the whole stagnated genre and all its flotsom to rot in hell.
Bring out your dead.
Thats a ridiculous notion sir.
much like a guitar player, you learn what you need to on your own, but the end goal is to play in a band with other people.
What you newer players seem to have forgotten is that in UO and EQ, socializing came first, "phat lewt" came second.
But unfortunately todays nerds are just like the asshole jocks that we wanted to seperate ourselves from to begin with.
All attitude, no compassion.
and I argue that you can still socialize in todays mmos, can you not? find like minded individuals like yourself and problem solved. and no, plenty of people learn to play an instrument with no aspirations to play in a band.
LoL, you do realize that MMOs by their very nature and design are meant to be played WITH other people.
Most developers do support solo play, but a solo player can not accomplish as much as a group of players. Thats why the best rewards are reserved for groups, aka Raids, Heroics, etc....
Thats why I dont understand why people are busting down a team sport into a one man ball and cup routine.
Because it's not inherently a team sport.
In MMO is a huge mountain. You can take a nice trail, alone or with friends. You can head for a vertical face and go it alone. You can tie yourself to a few friends and head strait for the top. There's no "right" way to climb the mountain, and everyone is free to enjoy it however they wish.
It WAS a team sport. But as more people with an overgrown selfish sense of entitlement filter in the genre demanding that the genre bend THEIR way the more the game suffers. MMO's are dead. And if I wasnt playing with some friends, Id tell the whole stagnated genre and all its flotsom to rot in hell.
Bring out your dead.
Thing is MMOs were never a 'team sport'. People just assumed they were.
UO never required you to team up for anything. In EQ teaming was only needed if you wanted to progress faster and get better loot. Grouping was just a plus in MMOs, something that allowed you to advance faster than you would by going solo.
There are 3 types of people in the world.
1.) Those who make things happen
2.) Those who watch things happen
3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
Thats a ridiculous notion sir.
much like a guitar player, you learn what you need to on your own, but the end goal is to play in a band with other people.
What you newer players seem to have forgotten is that in UO and EQ, socializing came first, "phat lewt" came second.
But unfortunately todays nerds are just like the asshole jocks that we wanted to seperate ourselves from to begin with.
All attitude, no compassion.
and I argue that you can still socialize in todays mmos, can you not? find like minded individuals like yourself and problem solved. and no, plenty of people learn to play an instrument with no aspirations to play in a band.
LoL, you do realize that MMOs by their very nature and design are meant to be played WITH other people.
Most developers do support solo play, but a solo player can not accomplish as much as a group of players. Thats why the best rewards are reserved for groups, aka Raids, Heroics, etc....
Thats why I dont understand why people are busting down a team sport into a one man ball and cup routine.
Because it's not inherently a team sport.
In MMO is a huge mountain. You can take a nice trail, alone or with friends. You can head for a vertical face and go it alone. You can tie yourself to a few friends and head strait for the top. There's no "right" way to climb the mountain, and everyone is free to enjoy it however they wish.
It WAS a team sport. But as more people with an overgrown selfish sense of entitlement filter in the genre demanding that the genre bend THEIR way the more the game suffers. MMO's are dead. And if I wasnt playing with some friends, Id tell the whole stagnated genre and all its flotsom to rot in hell.
Bring out your dead.
It was never a team sport. You're either fooling yourself, or trying to fool others, but nothing you say will change the reality.
It's funny that you talk about entitlement, when it's your sense of entitlement that tells you that you should get benefits for grouping.
Just because you're not getting what YOU want, hardly makes the genre dead. But I'm fine with you viewing it that way, because I'd rather not have to deal with your kind while trying to enjoy a game.
Thats a ridiculous notion sir.
much like a guitar player, you learn what you need to on your own, but the end goal is to play in a band with other people.
What you newer players seem to have forgotten is that in UO and EQ, socializing came first, "phat lewt" came second.
But unfortunately todays nerds are just like the asshole jocks that we wanted to seperate ourselves from to begin with.
All attitude, no compassion.
and I argue that you can still socialize in todays mmos, can you not? find like minded individuals like yourself and problem solved. and no, plenty of people learn to play an instrument with no aspirations to play in a band.
LoL, you do realize that MMOs by their very nature and design are meant to be played WITH other people.
Most developers do support solo play, but a solo player can not accomplish as much as a group of players. Thats why the best rewards are reserved for groups, aka Raids, Heroics, etc....
Thats why I dont understand why people are busting down a team sport into a one man ball and cup routine.
Because it's not inherently a team sport.
In MMO is a huge mountain. You can take a nice trail, alone or with friends. You can head for a vertical face and go it alone. You can tie yourself to a few friends and head strait for the top. There's no "right" way to climb the mountain, and everyone is free to enjoy it however they wish.
It WAS a team sport. But as more people with an overgrown selfish sense of entitlement filter in the genre demanding that the genre bend THEIR way the more the game suffers. MMO's are dead. And if I wasnt playing with some friends, Id tell the whole stagnated genre and all its flotsom to rot in hell.
Bring out your dead.
Thing is MMOs were never a 'team sport'. People just assumed they were.
UO never required you to team up for anything. In EQ teaming was only needed if you wanted to progress faster and get better loot. Grouping was just a plus in MMOs, something that allowed you to advance faster than you would by going solo.
Why are people running around making bold statements like "An MMO is this..." or "An MMO is that..."
An MMO is only what its developers intend for it to be.
Thats a ridiculous notion sir.
much like a guitar player, you learn what you need to on your own, but the end goal is to play in a band with other people.
What you newer players seem to have forgotten is that in UO and EQ, socializing came first, "phat lewt" came second.
But unfortunately todays nerds are just like the asshole jocks that we wanted to seperate ourselves from to begin with.
All attitude, no compassion.
and I argue that you can still socialize in todays mmos, can you not? find like minded individuals like yourself and problem solved. and no, plenty of people learn to play an instrument with no aspirations to play in a band.
LoL, you do realize that MMOs by their very nature and design are meant to be played WITH other people.
Most developers do support solo play, but a solo player can not accomplish as much as a group of players. Thats why the best rewards are reserved for groups, aka Raids, Heroics, etc....
Thats why I dont understand why people are busting down a team sport into a one man ball and cup routine.
Because it's not inherently a team sport.
In MMO is a huge mountain. You can take a nice trail, alone or with friends. You can head for a vertical face and go it alone. You can tie yourself to a few friends and head strait for the top. There's no "right" way to climb the mountain, and everyone is free to enjoy it however they wish.
It WAS a team sport. But as more people with an overgrown selfish sense of entitlement filter in the genre demanding that the genre bend THEIR way the more the game suffers. MMO's are dead. And if I wasnt playing with some friends, Id tell the whole stagnated genre and all its flotsom to rot in hell.
Bring out your dead.
Thing is MMOs were never a 'team sport'. People just assumed they were.
UO never required you to team up for anything. In EQ teaming was only needed if you wanted to progress faster and get better loot. Grouping was just a plus in MMOs, something that allowed you to advance faster than you would by going solo.
Please stop making sense and pointing out obvious flaws in their reasoning... it only serves to upset their fragile egos.
people go out with friends, gaining no rewards in the end of the evening except the pleasure of having spent time with them. but they cant seem to do this in mmos. why do they need the carrot in the end of that stick? "social aspect of mmos" my ass. like I said, loot. nothing more.
If you stand VERY still, and close your eyes, after a minute you can actually FEEL the universe revolving around PvP.
Thats a ridiculous notion sir.
much like a guitar player, you learn what you need to on your own, but the end goal is to play in a band with other people.
What you newer players seem to have forgotten is that in UO and EQ, socializing came first, "phat lewt" came second.
But unfortunately todays nerds are just like the asshole jocks that we wanted to seperate ourselves from to begin with.
All attitude, no compassion.
and I argue that you can still socialize in todays mmos, can you not? find like minded individuals like yourself and problem solved. and no, plenty of people learn to play an instrument with no aspirations to play in a band.
LoL, you do realize that MMOs by their very nature and design are meant to be played WITH other people.
Most developers do support solo play, but a solo player can not accomplish as much as a group of players. Thats why the best rewards are reserved for groups, aka Raids, Heroics, etc....
Thats why I dont understand why people are busting down a team sport into a one man ball and cup routine.
Because it's not inherently a team sport.
In MMO is a huge mountain. You can take a nice trail, alone or with friends. You can head for a vertical face and go it alone. You can tie yourself to a few friends and head strait for the top. There's no "right" way to climb the mountain, and everyone is free to enjoy it however they wish.
It WAS a team sport. But as more people with an overgrown selfish sense of entitlement filter in the genre demanding that the genre bend THEIR way the more the game suffers. MMO's are dead. And if I wasnt playing with some friends, Id tell the whole stagnated genre and all its flotsom to rot in hell.
Bring out your dead.
It was never a team sport. You're either fooling yourself, or trying to fool others, but nothing you say will change the reality.
It's funny that you talk about entitlement, when it's your sense of entitlement that tells you that you should get benefits for grouping.
Just because you're not getting what YOU want, hardly makes the genre dead. But I'm fine with you viewing it that way, because I'd rather not have to deal with your kind while trying to enjoy a game.
Actually I started Playing EQ for the group socializing. I NEVER would have wanted to play a game with tons of brats running around demanding that they get their solo play.
Ppeople get away with being the biggest asses you ever met because they can play the game without ever paying the consequences for their behavior because they can solo to max level.
Its as simple as that, what I started playing MMOs for is outdated, apparently so am I.
Because it's not inherently a team sport.
In MMO is a huge mountain. You can take a nice trail, alone or with friends. You can head for a vertical face and go it alone. You can tie yourself to a few friends and head strait for the top. There's no "right" way to climb the mountain, and everyone is free to enjoy it however they wish.
Actually MMOs by historical design are a team sport.
You can climb the mountain of character levels in different ways, but to reach the peak of rewards you must overcome challenges that are beyond a sinlge player.
I played EQ for 6 years, I ended the game with some of the shittiest gear ever. I had no raid gear, I didnt care, I didnt even bother to use my DKP most of the time because Id have rather seen a friend get something fat and have a good time than argue with them as to why "I" didnt get it.
Im playing AION with some friends of mine, but the game is lame, but I do like hanging out with my friends of 5+ years, so I keep playing.
Wrap your logic around that.
Its as simple as that, what I started playing MMOs for is outdated, apparently so am I.
Me too bro, me too.
Ken
www.ActionMMORPG.com
One man, a small pile of money, and the screwball idea of a DIY Indie MMORPG? Yep, that's him. ~sigh~