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EQ vs. WoW after 6 years on the market
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Because it developed from a similar model, flourished and overshadows it's predecessor?
That's kinda what the word means.
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
Reducing the required numbers of players for the instances?
Reducing the time investment per raid by removing some trash?
Increasing hybrid class abilities to allow more flexibility in role?
Don't delude yourself. The old raids weren't more challenging.
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
Doing the same instance MEANS NOTHING! you don't seem to get it through your head that WoW has evolved and changed dramatically. Epics mean NOTHING! it's only a color classification for an item. Things have gotten more detailed and require a finer eye to see. Sure, they may all be doing the same 25man content but some players are doing harder content for better epics. There are now SEVERAL ways to do the same raid instance and each way may lead to different loot.
"World of Warcraft is the perfect implementation of this genre." - Hilmar Petursson. CEO of CCP.
Reducing the required numbers of players for the instances?
Reducing the time investment per raid by removing some trash?
Increasing hybrid class abilities to allow more flexibility in role?
Don't delude yourself. The old raids weren't more challenging.
Wow long thread... Actually Older Raids were much more challenging. The reason why is it is always more challenging to keep order and organization in bigger groups of people.
There were more roles to be played by more people. Everyone had to do there job correctly or the entire raid could fail. Dont get me wrong smaller raids have that same philosophy if someone messes up it can mess up whole thing. But it could happen more frequently with bigger raids.
Also mobs were overall made harder, having more HPs more abilities (usually) more defenses.
Larger raids required more strategy and more planning in order to pull off effectively.
Now as for the original topic. I played both games. EQ1 and WOW.. I had a good time playing both. However the instanced mentality of WOW for me personally instills more greed and a more unsociable playerbase. People show up get what they want and leave, sometimes without so much as a goodbye. WOW has definately won the battle of which game is more successful There is no arguing that.
That in no way makes it a better game. At least in my opinion. If it was put to a vote. I would vote EQ1 the better of the 2 games hands down, and I enjoyed WOW.
Reducing the required numbers of players for the instances?
Reducing the time investment per raid by removing some trash?
Increasing hybrid class abilities to allow more flexibility in role?
Don't delude yourself. The old raids weren't more challenging.
Yeah, so they could handle some of MC, which was 40 man, but for some reason they didn't have the numbers for BWL or any of the other 40 mans? that makes a lot of sense
Bwaha, you're hardly in a position to speak of "sense".
Just how many "hardcore" raiders do you think existed back in the day? .. there was a very good reason why servers had (at most) one or two guilds who were progressing to the top tier content. It wasn't because of the difficulty; it was because other raid guilds couldn't meet the time requirement to prepare for/raid as frequently or reliably as the "top" guilds.
TBC was a wake-up call for raiders. All of a sudden, it was a lot less of a time investment to meet minimum raid requirements and suddenly everyone was catching up in terms of raid progression and gear. It was an awesome time to be a closet casual inside the most progressive raid guild on my server; even the tears of the "hardcore" were epic.
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
They required more organisation; that doesn't make them more challenging.
In a 40 man raid group, each person represents 2.5% of the fighting unit.
In a 25 man raid group, each person represents 4% of the fighting unit.
On an individual level, 25 man is (mathmatically) 62.5% more challenging than 40 man.
Strategy doesn't change when you scale down the raids either. To use a simple example; If you have 10 ranged DPS in a 40 man raid, they have to remember not to stand in fire. If you have 5 ranged DPS in a 25 man raid, they still have to remember not to stand in the same fire.
One does, and dies .. then you're still worse off in a 25 man raid than in a 40 man raid; you just lost 20% of your ranged DPS instead of 10%. 40 man raiding is simply more tolerant of mistakes.
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
Not even sure why I'm doing this, bored i guess.
Eq1 was popular in it's hayday and WOW is popular as well. The consistant need to bash each other over and over again about a game is silly to me. Can we not be adult enough to just discuss something with intellegence ( I'm asking too much from forums i know) Yes WoW is popular, to debate that is pointless. It's so popular it's like a radio or TV having a commerical every 5 seconds. Which is my major gripe with the game. A game annoys me when i can't get away from it at all. Games, TV, internet, it even is talked about in length at my work, for 6 hours straight. When a game comes to the point when it's talked about and heard about this much. It's gonna generate people who are in the mindset. okay enough already it's a game, people like it. Can we move on please?
We know EQ was popular, ever hear the term Evercrack? this term was used to depict people who played for hours on end, it even spawned several rehabilition clinets for people trying to recover from it. Wow is popular for it's fan base. Okay both are popluar both had lots of subscribers, both are different types of games in my opinion and come from different time periods.
/rant on
Its remarkable really how the mmo community has so de-evolved recently. That claiming that you like a game immediatly gets you bashed over the head and bombard by trash talking to the extent i've never seen. Why can't both games be good, why does one have to be crap (both sides are guilty of this). Both companies have made mistakes, can we agree that both games have their good and bad points and take our maturity level up a notch?
/rant off
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
I raided in TBC too.
Serpentshrine Cavern; tank swaps on Hydross. Brutal!
But I think I understand why you quit WoW now; you realised that since the time investment was lowered more people could reliably join raid guilds. Was it that the influx of "new" raiders provided insurmountable competition and you weren't good enough at playing your chosen class to keep up with them?
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
I can sum it up easily ,after 6 years,WOW still has no lore inside the game and it still has the cheapest ugliest game tech going,it has fallen behind or at least no better than all the f2p games.
When you see WOW fanbois constantly brag or talk about instance/raids,that tells you it is a UNI directional game design and game play,there really is no quality in the game,that is why players only strive for raiding and instances.
It really is sad to see how cheap or i assume?how inept they are to at least spend that money and put WOW on EQUAL terms with EQ2,but nope they rather sit on their money mound and continue to have an inferior game.Heck with just a couple months of sub fees,they could afford to upgrade the game.
What is still baffling me after all these years,is with all that money they are the ONLY large developer that i can think of that has not created a DECENT if not GREAT game engine.To show how inept Blizzard is,CCP a dev that went bankrupt at one time,has created a far superior game engine for their soon to release Dust game/expansion.
The super cheap Entropia universe upgraded to a much superior game engine lol,what on earth has Blizzard been doing with all that money over the last 6 years?I will tell you what they have been doing,spending tons of money on lawyers and other areas that have NOTHING to do with the game,like hiring several people to monitor your logs and internet/gaming habits,through that illegal program they have installed on your PC.Spending millions to buy an IP [REDNECK RAMPAGE]what in the heavens where they thinking on that money wasting idea?
More money waste is seen in their huge payroll staff,and they have VERY little going on,heck Square Enix has at least 8 game divisions,it may be more now,and Square covers every single possible gaming platform out there,Blizzard is still a mickey mouse PC only developer.So again ask yourself ,what the heck are they doing with all that money?
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Including yours! Thanks for playing!
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Including yours! Thanks for playing!
And yours! .. but it won't get me again.
..
Crap.
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
Your hate for Blizzard is strong, it seems.
Upgrading a new game engine is not an easy task, especially for something with the magnitude of WoW.
They'll probably redesign it from 0(if they really wanted to do that) while Entropia Universe is using CryEngine.
I'm asking the same question.
Well said.
lol you can nitpick, but 3D-looking isn't good enough for me to call it a 3D MMO that has mechanics of a true 3D MMO game. The difference is like being in a flight simulator, vs getting in and flying an actual plane.
EQ was the first true 3D MMO, Meridian 59 was more of a 2.5D. M59 didn't get truer 3D graphics until the graphics upgrade in 2004.
nerd rage? anger? "azia" ?
i never played eqII i saw videos and thats pretty much it, nor im comparing both games but its from comments like yours that i can see why wow is the best game.
you have nothing but hate against a game that gives you all the gameplay you can possibly want with very good quality, and like stated above freshh content that makes you keep playing even if its casual way, or hc way you always have fun in wow in eqII and most games that compete with wow you dont. thats the way i see it.
Questions: What was your arena rating? How many hardmodes did you accomplish? An epic = nothing is its a crappy epic. Give us your armory and get online for me to verify that you have indeed "mastered" WoW.
I never said I mastered anything, not sure where you're getting that. PVP is boring to me for the most part, I did enjoy Wintergrasp, but that's all.
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Quel'dorei&n=Iadien
I quit right before the most recent major update.
So you chose not do to any of the challenging content and then complain that the games not challenging? well, wtf did you expect?
EDIT: actually having looked at your character more, you actually haven't done ANYTHING. Sorry, but your opinion on the matter is meaningless as you have no real experience in WoW.
"World of Warcraft is the perfect implementation of this genre." - Hilmar Petursson. CEO of CCP.
I raided in TBC too.
Serpentshrine Cavern; tank swaps on Hydross. Brutal!
But I think I understand why you quit WoW now; you realised that since the time investment was lowered more people could reliably join raid guilds. Was it that the influx of "new" raiders provided insurmountable competition and you weren't good enough at playing your chosen class to keep up with them?
It wasn't about time investment, it was about raids becoming too easy, and WoW handing out Welfare epics to bad players who were stuck wiping in molten core all the time.
Can't keep up with WoW players? What a joke. Out of any MMORPG I've played the people in WoW are of the lowest quality. Why else would they have done away with the 40 mans besides the players sucking.
Lordseru, your logic is so flawed.
Equal terms with EQ2? That is laughable.
EQ2 looks like shit, performs like shit and the development direction changes so much even the players joke about which segment of the playerbase will get shafted with no content. Who in their right mind would try to compete with that, let alone try to "upgrade" to that? The game tries to hide the bad animations and horrid combat responsiveness behind so many particle affects it looks like a bad 80's disco on acid.
If EQ2 were to even remotely offer some real competition, then perhaps it would force other companies to compete and maybe update their graphic engine. Which ironically is one of the major problems of EQ2, the game you praise. Which has been out just as long as wow and has not resolved its terrible graphics engine.
You cry foul on a company that made a great game engine the functions great and praise a game that released one of the worst game engines in the industry and has not fixed it in over 5 years. I just cannot see where your logic comes from in this line of thinking.
In the end, wow doesn't need a graphics engine update for several reasons. Until that changes I don't see why blizzard would do it. It might be nice, but it might just have a poor impact on the game like the luclin models did in EQ.
I raided in TBC too.
Serpentshrine Cavern; tank swaps on Hydross. Brutal!
But I think I understand why you quit WoW now; you realised that since the time investment was lowered more people could reliably join raid guilds. Was it that the influx of "new" raiders provided insurmountable competition and you weren't good enough at playing your chosen class to keep up with them?
It wasn't about time investment, it was about raids becoming too easy, and WoW handing out Welfare epics to bad players who were stuck wiping in molten core all the time.
Can't keep up with WoW players? What a joke. Out of any MMORPG I've played the people in WoW are of the lowest quality. Why else would they have done away with the 40 mans besides the players sucking.
If 40 players sucked, then why wouldn't 25. Your logic makes no sense again.
Everquest changed its raid limits from:
Unlimited to 56 to 72 to 36 to whatever it might be now. Can we conclude that everquest players are 4 times lower quality due to so many raid cap changes?
Personally, I liked EQ1, EQ2, and WoW. I`m retired from them all right now, but I think I could still play EQ2 and WoW right now if I had the urge to go back. I do miss EQ1 the most, but I don`t think I could go back to it. I`m not as hardcore as I use to be and I have to many other RL issues to think about.
Serpentshrine Cavern; tank swaps on Hydross. Brutal!
But I think I understand why you quit WoW now; you realised that since the time investment was lowered more people could reliably join raid guilds. Was it that the influx of "new" raiders provided insurmountable competition and you weren't good enough at playing your chosen class to keep up with them?
It wasn't about time investment, it was about raids becoming too easy, and WoW handing out Welfare epics to bad players who were stuck wiping in molten core all the time.
Can't keep up with WoW players? What a joke. Out of any MMORPG I've played the people in WoW are of the lowest quality. Why else would they have done away with the 40 mans besides the players sucking.
If 40 players sucked, then why wouldn't 25. Your logic makes no sense again.
Everquest changed its raid limits from:
Unlimited to 56 to 72 to 36 to whatever it might be now. Can we conclude that everquest players are 4 times lower quality due to so many raid cap changes?
When they brought in 25 mans, they made them easy so that newbies could do them easily. 40 mans weer actually difficult
10/25man hardmodes are considerably harder than any 40man content. Again, you have no idea what you are talking about.
"World of Warcraft is the perfect implementation of this genre." - Hilmar Petursson. CEO of CCP.
It was about time investment.
A little story; dawn of TBC and we're all rushing to 70 to start getting attunements done ready for raiding .. you may recall that, at the time, it was necessary to complete 5 man heroic dungeons to complete raid attunements. Naturally, we all piled into these heroics as soon as we conceivably could; our gear was a hodge-podge of quest greens.
I raided MC, BWL, AQ and Naxx with these guys. We were the most progressive raid guild on our server by a long shot. I stood next to our guild leader when he banged the gong and opened the gates of AQ.I was present at every one of our server first raid-boss kills.
By your interpretation, these were the "most skilled" players on our server.
Half our guild of "hardcore" raiders couldn't do the attunements. I had to run heroic shattered halls a bunch of times in various different roles (I was playing a druid) .. I had to tank it for our guilds main MT while he went DPS because he was incapable of tanking it himself.
They did away with the 40 mans because they wanted more people to be able to invest the time and see the lovely raid content that the developers spent so much money making.
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
Questions: What was your arena rating? How many hardmodes did you accomplish? An epic = nothing is its a crappy epic. Give us your armory and get online for me to verify that you have indeed "mastered" WoW.
I never said I mastered anything, not sure where you're getting that. PVP is boring to me for the most part, I did enjoy Wintergrasp, but that's all.
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Quel'dorei&n=Iadien
I quit right before the most recent major update.
So you chose not do to any of the challenging content and then complain that the games not challenging? well, wtf did you expect?
EDIT: actually having looked at your character more, you actually haven't done ANYTHING. Sorry, but your opinion on the matter is meaningless as you have no real experience in WoW.
You certainly have a hardon for WoW, don't you? The fact that I did that with very little play time says a lot for the difficulty. I can't imagine you've raided in any other game, with the way you defend WoW. I know several people who raid in WoW, and every single one of them says raiding is easier than EQ.
Ive always thought EQ2 graphics much better than WOW.In fac t WOW graphics were dated when it released. As for performance my PC isnt anywhere near state of the art but again, EQ2 has always ran fine for me although I could see how it might not perform to well on the average WOW machine.