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EQ vs. WoW after 6 years on the market
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I didn't mean it in a negative way. I disagree with what you said about how the WoW armory proves or disproves someones skill. I thought spending countless hours grinding away in a game didn't define the difficulty? Apparently that argument is for EQ alone. haha
The difference between WoW and EQ are so simple that I cannot understand how people cannot see it.
In WoW nothing but time and yourself can stop you from advancing forward.
In EQ everything can stop you from advancing including time and yourself.
In WoW you just keep marching forward with nothing in the game able to stop you from progressing, so like a treadmill you just keep going and going.
In EQ, death can slow you down or stop you, zones can slow you down or stop you. The game has in place things to stop players from moving forward unless they are smart enough to over come them.
I have nothing againts WoW. I am back playing it again because my roommate wanted to give EQ1 a break again.
WoW anyone can get max level with max gear with max faction. The only thing that will stop someone is themselfs. Given enough time anyone can max out their character. (this is seen as a major plus for many but not for gamers like myself)
EQ only the strong make it to max level, with max gear and max faction (is that possible?). If you are not smart or not a good problem solver or pissed too many people off or do not know your class inside and out then you will not be able to advance past a certain point in EQ1. It took "skill" to master the gameplay and even then their were events that were hard as hell even for the best of the best.
WoW vs EQ. The winner depends on your personal style of taste. Do you like to earn and work for your rewards or do you feel that putting in enough time should equal rewards. It is that simple. That is the difference between WoW and EQ1. Do you want to earn your rewards (EQ1) or do you want to be given the rewards based on time invested. (WoW)
Sooner or Later
I didn't mean it in a negative way. I disagree with what you said about how the WoW armory proves or disproves someones skill. I thought spending countless hours grinding away in a game didn't define the difficulty? Apparently that argument is for EQ alone. haha
The difference between WoW and EQ are so simple that I cannot understand how people cannot see it.
In WoW nothing but time and yourself can stop you from advancing forward.
In EQ everything can stop you from advancing including time and yourself.
In WoW you just keep marching forward with nothing in the game able to stop you from progressing, so like a treadmill you just keep going and going.
In EQ, death can slow you down or stop you, zones can slow you down or stop you. The game has in place things to stop players from moving forward unless they are smart enough to over come them.
I have nothing againts WoW. I am back playing it again because my roommate wanted to give EQ1 a break again.
WoW anyone can get max level with max gear with max faction. The only thing that will stop someone is themselfs. Given enough time anyone can max out their character. (this is seen as a major plus for many but not for gamers like myself)
EQ only the strong make it to max level, with max gear and max faction (is that possible?). If you are not smart or not a good problem solver or piss too many people off then you will not be able to advance past a certain point in EQ1. It took "skill" to master the gameplay and even then their were events that were hard as hell even for the best of the best.
WoW vs EQ. The winner depends on your personal style of taste. Do you like to earn and work for your rewards or do you feel that putting in enough time should equal rewards. It is that simple. That is the difference between WoW and EQ1. Do you want to earn your rewards (EQ1) or do you want to be given the rewards based on time invested. (WoW)
Do you think anyone can be #1 in the arena by just playing more than the next person?
I didn't mean it in a negative way. I disagree with what you said about how the WoW armory proves or disproves someones skill. I thought spending countless hours grinding away in a game didn't define the difficulty? Apparently that argument is for EQ alone. haha
The difference between WoW and EQ are so simple that I cannot understand how people cannot see it.
In WoW nothing but time and yourself can stop you from advancing forward.
In EQ everything can stop you from advancing including time and yourself.
In WoW you just keep marching forward with nothing in the game able to stop you from progressing, so like a treadmill you just keep going and going.
In EQ, death can slow you down or stop you, zones can slow you down or stop you. The game has in place things to stop players from moving forward unless they are smart enough to over come them.
I have nothing againts WoW. I am back playing it again because my roommate wanted to give EQ1 a break again.
WoW anyone can get max level with max gear with max faction. The only thing that will stop someone is themselfs. Given enough time anyone can max out their character. (this is seen as a major plus for many but not for gamers like myself)
EQ only the strong make it to max level, with max gear and max faction (is that possible?). If you are not smart or not a good problem solver or piss too many people off then you will not be able to advance past a certain point in EQ1. It took "skill" to master the gameplay and even then their were events that were hard as hell even for the best of the best.
WoW vs EQ. The winner depends on your personal style of taste. Do you like to earn and work for your rewards or do you feel that putting in enough time should equal rewards. It is that simple. That is the difference between WoW and EQ1. Do you want to earn your rewards (EQ1) or do you want to be given the rewards based on time invested. (WoW)
Do you think anyone can be #1 in the arena by just playing more than the next person?
Never said that did I? The Arena is complete different then WoW. It is only a smart part of the game and only been around for alittle bit now. The Arena is something I consider a GM event more then WoW gameplay.
Sooner or Later
I didn't mean it in a negative way. I disagree with what you said about how the WoW armory proves or disproves someones skill. I thought spending countless hours grinding away in a game didn't define the difficulty? Apparently that argument is for EQ alone. haha
The difference between WoW and EQ are so simple that I cannot understand how people cannot see it.
In WoW nothing but time and yourself can stop you from advancing forward.
In EQ everything can stop you from advancing including time and yourself.
In WoW you just keep marching forward with nothing in the game able to stop you from progressing, so like a treadmill you just keep going and going.
In EQ, death can slow you down or stop you, zones can slow you down or stop you. The game has in place things to stop players from moving forward unless they are smart enough to over come them.
I have nothing againts WoW. I am back playing it again because my roommate wanted to give EQ1 a break again.
WoW anyone can get max level with max gear with max faction. The only thing that will stop someone is themselfs. Given enough time anyone can max out their character. (this is seen as a major plus for many but not for gamers like myself)
EQ only the strong make it to max level, with max gear and max faction (is that possible?). If you are not smart or not a good problem solver or pissed too many people off or do not know your class inside and out then you will not be able to advance past a certain point in EQ1. It took "skill" to master the gameplay and even then their were events that were hard as hell even for the best of the best.
WoW vs EQ. The winner depends on your personal style of taste. Do you like to earn and work for your rewards or do you feel that putting in enough time should equal rewards. It is that simple. That is the difference between WoW and EQ1. Do you want to earn your rewards (EQ1) or do you want to be given the rewards based on time invested. (WoW)
Everything you said about EQ can be applied to WoW and vice versa. I could just swap the two acronyms in your post and it would still be true. I guess you just do not see that because of your prejudices against WoW.
I didn't mean it in a negative way. I disagree with what you said about how the WoW armory proves or disproves someones skill. I thought spending countless hours grinding away in a game didn't define the difficulty? Apparently that argument is for EQ alone. haha
The difference between WoW and EQ are so simple that I cannot understand how people cannot see it.
In WoW nothing but time and yourself can stop you from advancing forward.
In EQ everything can stop you from advancing including time and yourself.
In WoW you just keep marching forward with nothing in the game able to stop you from progressing, so like a treadmill you just keep going and going.
In EQ, death can slow you down or stop you, zones can slow you down or stop you. The game has in place things to stop players from moving forward unless they are smart enough to over come them.
I have nothing againts WoW. I am back playing it again because my roommate wanted to give EQ1 a break again.
WoW anyone can get max level with max gear with max faction. The only thing that will stop someone is themselfs. Given enough time anyone can max out their character. (this is seen as a major plus for many but not for gamers like myself)
EQ only the strong make it to max level, with max gear and max faction (is that possible?). If you are not smart or not a good problem solver or pissed too many people off or do not know your class inside and out then you will not be able to advance past a certain point in EQ1. It took "skill" to master the gameplay and even then their were events that were hard as hell even for the best of the best.
WoW vs EQ. The winner depends on your personal style of taste. Do you like to earn and work for your rewards or do you feel that putting in enough time should equal rewards. It is that simple. That is the difference between WoW and EQ1. Do you want to earn your rewards (EQ1) or do you want to be given the rewards based on time invested. (WoW)
Everything you said about EQ can be applied to WoW and vice versa. I could just swap the two acronyms in your post and it would still be true. I guess you just do not see that because of your prejudices against WoW.
What prejudices againts WOW do you speak of?
Death in WoW cannot stop you, it cost you nothing but time. In EQ1 you lost exp and even levels which is not possible in WoW.
Nothing I said about EQ can be applied to WoW or vice versa.
[Mod Edit]
Sooner or Later
I didn't mean it in a negative way. I disagree with what you said about how the WoW armory proves or disproves someones skill. I thought spending countless hours grinding away in a game didn't define the difficulty? Apparently that argument is for EQ alone. haha
The difference between WoW and EQ are so simple that I cannot understand how people cannot see it.
In WoW nothing but time and yourself can stop you from advancing forward.
In EQ everything can stop you from advancing including time and yourself.
In WoW you just keep marching forward with nothing in the game able to stop you from progressing, so like a treadmill you just keep going and going.
In EQ, death can slow you down or stop you, zones can slow you down or stop you. The game has in place things to stop players from moving forward unless they are smart enough to over come them.
I have nothing againts WoW. I am back playing it again because my roommate wanted to give EQ1 a break again.
WoW anyone can get max level with max gear with max faction. The only thing that will stop someone is themselfs. Given enough time anyone can max out their character. (this is seen as a major plus for many but not for gamers like myself)
EQ only the strong make it to max level, with max gear and max faction (is that possible?). If you are not smart or not a good problem solver or piss too many people off then you will not be able to advance past a certain point in EQ1. It took "skill" to master the gameplay and even then their were events that were hard as hell even for the best of the best.
WoW vs EQ. The winner depends on your personal style of taste. Do you like to earn and work for your rewards or do you feel that putting in enough time should equal rewards. It is that simple. That is the difference between WoW and EQ1. Do you want to earn your rewards (EQ1) or do you want to be given the rewards based on time invested. (WoW)
Do you think anyone can be #1 in the arena by just playing more than the next person?
Never said that did I? The Arena is complete different then WoW. It is only a smart part of the game and only been around for alittle bit now. The Arena is something I consider a GM event more then WoW gameplay.
No you didn't say that;) You were perfectly clear. I didn't know anyone considers Arena NOT gameplay. My bad=) Oh, you were actually serious? So you made a statement/opinion and redefined what playing a game means in order to bash it? I understand now. What do we call that again?
I didn't mean it in a negative way. I disagree with what you said about how the WoW armory proves or disproves someones skill. I thought spending countless hours grinding away in a game didn't define the difficulty? Apparently that argument is for EQ alone. haha
The difference between WoW and EQ are so simple that I cannot understand how people cannot see it.
In WoW nothing but time and yourself can stop you from advancing forward.
In EQ everything can stop you from advancing including time and yourself.
In WoW you just keep marching forward with nothing in the game able to stop you from progressing, so like a treadmill you just keep going and going.
In EQ, death can slow you down or stop you, zones can slow you down or stop you. The game has in place things to stop players from moving forward unless they are smart enough to over come them.
I have nothing againts WoW. I am back playing it again because my roommate wanted to give EQ1 a break again.
WoW anyone can get max level with max gear with max faction. The only thing that will stop someone is themselfs. Given enough time anyone can max out their character. (this is seen as a major plus for many but not for gamers like myself)
EQ only the strong make it to max level, with max gear and max faction (is that possible?). If you are not smart or not a good problem solver or pissed too many people off or do not know your class inside and out then you will not be able to advance past a certain point in EQ1. It took "skill" to master the gameplay and even then their were events that were hard as hell even for the best of the best.
WoW vs EQ. The winner depends on your personal style of taste. Do you like to earn and work for your rewards or do you feel that putting in enough time should equal rewards. It is that simple. That is the difference between WoW and EQ1. Do you want to earn your rewards (EQ1) or do you want to be given the rewards based on time invested. (WoW)
Everything you said about EQ can be applied to WoW and vice versa. I could just swap the two acronyms in your post and it would still be true. I guess you just do not see that because of your prejudices against WoW.
What prejudices againts WOW do you speak of? Considering I am currently playing WoW I pretty sure you have no idea what you are talking about.
Death in WoW cannot stop you, it cost you nothing but time. In EQ1 you lost exp and even levels which is not possible in WoW.
Nothing I said about EQ can be applied to WoW or vice versa. Maybe you should think before you speak but I guess that is asking to much.
Go ahead and change nothing in my post but EQ and WoW and see how stupid you would look then.
QFT
I didn't mean it in a negative way. I disagree with what you said about how the WoW armory proves or disproves someones skill. I thought spending countless hours grinding away in a game didn't define the difficulty? Apparently that argument is for EQ alone. haha
The difference between WoW and EQ are so simple that I cannot understand how people cannot see it.
In WoW nothing but time and yourself can stop you from advancing forward.
In EQ everything can stop you from advancing including time and yourself.
In WoW you just keep marching forward with nothing in the game able to stop you from progressing, so like a treadmill you just keep going and going.
In EQ, death can slow you down or stop you, zones can slow you down or stop you. The game has in place things to stop players from moving forward unless they are smart enough to over come them.
I have nothing againts WoW. I am back playing it again because my roommate wanted to give EQ1 a break again.
WoW anyone can get max level with max gear with max faction. The only thing that will stop someone is themselfs. Given enough time anyone can max out their character. (this is seen as a major plus for many but not for gamers like myself)
EQ only the strong make it to max level, with max gear and max faction (is that possible?). If you are not smart or not a good problem solver or piss too many people off then you will not be able to advance past a certain point in EQ1. It took "skill" to master the gameplay and even then their were events that were hard as hell even for the best of the best.
WoW vs EQ. The winner depends on your personal style of taste. Do you like to earn and work for your rewards or do you feel that putting in enough time should equal rewards. It is that simple. That is the difference between WoW and EQ1. Do you want to earn your rewards (EQ1) or do you want to be given the rewards based on time invested. (WoW)
Do you think anyone can be #1 in the arena by just playing more than the next person?
Never said that did I? The Arena is complete different then WoW. It is only a smart part of the game and only been around for alittle bit now. The Arena is something I consider a GM event more then WoW gameplay.
No you didn't say that;) You were perfectly clear. I didn't know anyone considers Arena NOT gameplay. My bad=) Oh, you were actually serious? So you made a statement/opinion and redefined what playing a game means in order to bash it? I understand now. What do we call that again?
Arena's are like a GM event. You have to meet certain requirments to even get to play in them. They are not apart of WoW in the sense that they are a special event for a small minority of players.
When did I redefine what playing a game means? I said I do not consider the Arena battles apart of WoW gameplay. I consider them a special GM like event that only a small number of players are able to play in. Does it take skill to win the Arena? Yes but can anybody just start playing in the Arena at anytime or does it require certain requirments to get to play in it?
If you want we can compare WoW Arena to EQs Best of the Best GM events they ran. Its the samething to me.
Sooner or Later
Everything you said about EQ can be applied to WoW and vice versa. I could just swap the two acronyms in your post and it would still be true. I guess you just do not see that because of your prejudices against WoW.
What prejudices againts WOW do you speak of? Considering I am currently playing WoW I pretty sure you have no idea what you are talking about.
Death in WoW cannot stop you, it cost you nothing but time. In EQ1 you lost exp and even levels which is not possible in WoW.
Nothing I said about EQ can be applied to WoW or vice versa. Maybe you should think before you speak but I guess that is asking to much.
Go ahead and change nothing in my post but EQ and WoW and see how stupid you would look then.
Let's see:
In EQ nothing but time and yourself can stop you from advancing forward.
In WoW everything can stop you from advancing including time and yourself.
In EQ you just keep marching forward with nothing in the game able to stop you from progressing, so like a treadmill you just keep going and going.
In WoW, death can slow you down or stop you, zones can slow you down or stop you. The game has in place things to stop players from moving forward unless they are smart enough to over come them.
So far all of this is quite true.
Too be fair I could substitute any game name in there and it still would be true. In any game the only things that really stop you from progressing is time and yourself. You either do not have the time to progress or you are unwilling to spend the time to progress.
Your prejudice against WoW is that you think that the way EQ did things is better and do not use objective means to prove it.
Let's see:
In EQ nothing but time and yourself can stop you from advancing forward.
In WoW everything can stop you from advancing including time and yourself.
In EQ you just keep marching forward with nothing in the game able to stop you from progressing, so like a treadmill you just keep going and going.
In WoW, death can slow you down or stop you, zones can slow you down or stop you. The game has in place things to stop players from moving forward unless they are smart enough to over come them.
So far all of this is quite true.
Too be fair I could substitute any game name in there and it still would be true. In any game the only things that really stop you from progressing is time and yourself. You either do not have the time to progress or you are unwilling to spend the time to progress.
Your prejudice against WoW is that you think that the way EQ did things is better and do not use objective means to prove it.
"In EQ nothing but time and yourself can stop you from advancing forward." Really? Death, losing exp and maybe gear? that does not stop you? Really?
"In WoW everything can stop you from advancing including time and yourself." What in WoW can stop you? Besides Time and yourself? Death? Content? Keys? Other guilds/players? Last time I checked you can go from 1 to 80 without ever talking to someone in WoW. No going to happen in EQ1.
"In EQ you just keep marching forward with nothing in the game able to stop you from progressing, so like a treadmill you just keep going and going." So death, group only content, keys, flags cannot stop you in EQ1? Hmm guess I played a different game then you did. Considering I can lose exp and levels in EQ which stops me from just marching forward.
"In WoW, death can slow you down or stop you, zones can slow you down or stop you. The game has in place things to stop players from moving forward unless they are smart enough to over come them. " Really Death can slow or stop in WoW. I guess I bugged out my WoW because death means nothing but time.
Come on, I know you are smarter then this. Please please use common sense, it is a great thing and alot of people do not use it enough. Personally I feel that EQ did alot of things better then WoW. I rather group then solo and I would much rather my quests be epic and meaningful then useless and pointless.
Really I have no prejudice against WoW considering I am playing the game currently. If i had prejudices againts WoW I would not be sending them my money each month. Do i think that WoW is as good as EQ1? Nope I do not.
Sooner or Later
I'll put my two cents in.
I was one of the first players in EQ back before it became popular. There were long load times (I had dial up), there was no help for quests. I was a Warrior. I remember reading a book to heal after battle because it took so fr'cking long. I than became a Druid (SOW giver). Let's really focus on one item - death. in EQ, there was a major penalty for death. When you died you lost ex but you also had to get to your body within 24 hrs or it vanished with all your items. Yes, it took all your items.
EQ was great back in it's day but times change and advancement happens. Can you compare Atari 2600 to a PS3? Yes on a basic level but it's really not a far comparsion. Technology has advanced. Atari was great for it's time and started everything. Same as EQ did for WOW.
WOW learned from EQ's mistakes. To bring the more casual gamer they took the dying penaly away. To make the game more fun, the downtime is reduced greatly after battle. Money is easier to get (There was a major money shortage in the beginning of EQ). Is it perfect? Of course no, but they did alot to advance the MMORPGs.
I do miss that death penalty. It made the game more exciting. It made you consider challenges more carefully. Dying in WOW (and alot of others) is really no big thing. Just a minute or two to get your body back.
One thing to note - companies. Blizzard takes care of it's fanbase. Be it Battlenet for Starcraft/Diablo or WOW, it tries to help the fanbase/players in games and out. Sony's GMs were horrible. The company didn't care about EQ in the beginning. The game crashed alot. Customer service didn't exist.
EQ was the precusor to WOW the same as WOW will be for something else. It's not a far comparasion.
So what have we learned with this thread before the duplicate of it comes out in a week or two?
I opt for mod consideration to sticky a thread specifically dedicated to EQ. vs. WoW.
"There is only one thing of which I am certain, and that's nothing is certain."
I didn't mean it in a negative way. I disagree with what you said about how the WoW armory proves or disproves someones skill. I thought spending countless hours grinding away in a game didn't define the difficulty? Apparently that argument is for EQ alone. haha
The difference between WoW and EQ are so simple that I cannot understand how people cannot see it.
In WoW nothing but time and yourself can stop you from advancing forward.
In EQ everything can stop you from advancing including time and yourself.
In WoW you just keep marching forward with nothing in the game able to stop you from progressing, so like a treadmill you just keep going and going.
In EQ, death can slow you down or stop you, zones can slow you down or stop you. The game has in place things to stop players from moving forward unless they are smart enough to over come them.
I have nothing againts WoW. I am back playing it again because my roommate wanted to give EQ1 a break again.
WoW anyone can get max level with max gear with max faction. The only thing that will stop someone is themselfs. Given enough time anyone can max out their character. (this is seen as a major plus for many but not for gamers like myself)
EQ only the strong make it to max level, with max gear and max faction (is that possible?). If you are not smart or not a good problem solver or piss too many people off then you will not be able to advance past a certain point in EQ1. It took "skill" to master the gameplay and even then their were events that were hard as hell even for the best of the best.
WoW vs EQ. The winner depends on your personal style of taste. Do you like to earn and work for your rewards or do you feel that putting in enough time should equal rewards. It is that simple. That is the difference between WoW and EQ1. Do you want to earn your rewards (EQ1) or do you want to be given the rewards based on time invested. (WoW)
Do you think anyone can be #1 in the arena by just playing more than the next person?
Never said that did I? The Arena is complete different then WoW. It is only a smart part of the game and only been around for alittle bit now. The Arena is something I consider a GM event more then WoW gameplay.
No you didn't say that;) You were perfectly clear. I didn't know anyone considers Arena NOT gameplay. My bad=) Oh, you were actually serious? So you made a statement/opinion and redefined what playing a game means in order to bash it? I understand now. What do we call that again?
Arena's are like a GM event. You have to meet certain requirments to even get to play in them. They are not apart of WoW in the sense that they are a special event for a small minority of players.
When did I redefine what playing a game means? I said I do not consider the Arena battles apart of WoW gameplay. I consider them a special GM like event that only a small number of players are able to play in. Does it take skill to win the Arena? Yes but can anybody just start playing in the Arena at anytime or does it require certain requirments to get to play in it?
If you want we can compare WoW Arena to EQs Best of the Best GM events they ran. Its the samething to me.
You redefined what playing a game was when you said Arena is NOT gameplay? Of course it is. Everything in the game is gameplay. What you "consider" or think gameplay qualifies as, is irrelevant. By that logic, all the hardest PvE dungeons aren't gameplay either because only a small percentage of the player base can beat them and they all have certain requirements that must be met to have any chance at winning.
WOW can be very hard in PvE and PvP and can also be quite easy. The player chooses which path he wants to take and controls the difficulty with his choices. Its the reason WOW has stayed popular and has continued to dominate the MMO scene for 6 years and EQ essentially stopped being relevant back in 2004.
I finally get it now! The double standard that is being placed on WoW and the players that are currently enjoying it.
Point 1:
WoW community is the worst I've experienced. And it's been proven by many as being just that, even from people that play it.
So what's your opinion of a bad community? Do all factors that make up your opinion have to be shared by everyone?
And if not then obviously some factors have to be similar among a widespread spectrum of players in order for it to have any legs to stand on correct? Maybe some of those factors are:
These must be obvious issues that spawned with the introduction of WoW to the MMO market correct? If not then the point is that because of the sheer volume of players now playing WoW, it has lead to a increase in this type of behavior being witnessed, thus providing the undeniable truth that WoW has the worst community of all other MMOs.
But what if all the factors listed above are not at the same intensity level to warrant something bad/immature/offensive for all players across ALL MMOs? Could it be true? If my experience in playing UO showed a higher intensity of something I deem more offensive, then my opinion is justified. It then does not matter if the next player's justification is different than mine, but as long as we share a common belief that UO's community is worst then we are in agreement.
The only factor to keep this opinion from transforming from a rant to common knowledge is that opposite opinions do exist. So if a majority of players see another community as being far worst from their own experiences then the nomenclature of that MMO having a worst community has legs, but cannot win the race on speed alone. And it's because of one simple thing:
Side by side to any single MMO will always make it seem like WoW has the worst community, but only because of the sheer amount of players experiencing it. And if you factor in the total number of MMO players to the equation across ALL MMOs, then the amount of OVERALL MMO players that have experienced far worst communities dwarfs the number of players that think only WoW holds that title.
I hope that makes sense to you disgruntled MMOers out there. Numbers will ALWAYS matter when dealing with these things. But the only opinions that seem to matter are the ones people want to focus on.
WoW did better than EQ because Blizzard took all those players frustrated with EQ's system and told those players that have a home in WoW for them, their family, their friends, their friend's friends and even players worldwide.
EQ's problem was it's scope was limited first by:
US players only.....then.....
US players only with time.....then.....
US players only with time and previous MMO experience.....then.....
US players only with time, previous MMO experience and a tolerance for the sink or swim system.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
Stop speaking in such logical terms. You're bound to make the brains of a few people here explode=)
By "pioneered", you mean "lifted from DikuMUD".
(Which lifted mostly from tabletop D&D)
Hmmm...
A True N00b derides any new game as a "WoW clone".
A Lesser N00b derided WoW as an EQ clone. (In Fall 2004, I had to pick between WoW and EQ2, and picked EQ2, in part because my EQ guild was there, in part because I felt the apparent simplicity of WoW would lead to short-term success and long-term collapse. Yeah. Who wants me to pick stocks for them?)
An Almost-Grognard derided EQ as "A 3d shell on DikuMUD". (Yes, this was said very often back in the day.)
A true Grognard dimissed "Brown Box" D&D as "For kids who can't handle sand-table Napoleonics." (Yes, I've seen that sentiment in older wargaming magazines, though being about 8 at the time, it wasn't something I personally encountered.)
How does a player offset the death penalty in wow? Spending time making money to repair items.
How does a player offset the death penalty in EQ? Spending time grinding experience to repair the experience bar.
If your corpse is in a dangerous area in either game you might need help getting it. Maybe you summon it, spirit rez or whatever.
A punishment doesn't really make the combat that killed your character any harder.
as for a no one being able to solo to max level in EQ, please. I've done it with alts, friends have done it. Hell I hear they have henchmen now in eq to fight heal and tank for you. Most do it with while two boxing or whatever, because it is more of a convenience.
You also act like everyone in wow is max level with max gear and max faction as if nothing could possibly stop them. There are still servers that have not killed the final boss in ulduar. Very few guilds have completed hard modes in dungeons.
Every game has is path of least resistance, easy areas and more difficult areas. It is just silly to say the EQ is somehow a game that requires genetically superior players when it is based on the same basic button mashing, avoidance, agro, tank and heal combat system that every other mmo is based on.
Just because wow offers that option of solo gameplay to people doesn't mean the grouping is inferior to eq's grouping. Just because more people play wow doesn't mean eq is somehow more refined.
I though it was "Constantly spam/whine until a high-level cleric rezzes you so you recoup 90% of your 'lost' XP".
You make a good point, BTW, on how "harsh death penalties" don't equate to "hard fight". IME, EQ fights were centered around taking the absolute minimum of risk, not because they were especially tough, but because you didn't want to take any chances. Frankly, I wish some of the "pull discipline" of EQ *was* present in WoW, because I'm sick of "Pull m0ar!!!" from people in my PUGs. It's not a race, folks. But that's another rant.
(As an additional point "Waiting 36 hours for a spawn" does not make a quest "harder" than "Go to the alter, click it, then kill the spawn". It just makes it more tedious. And anyone who says that EQs quests were "harder" because of the lack of maps, glowy punctuation marks, etc, I have one word for you: Allakazam.) (Basically, a quest is "hard" for the first person to do it, and then cookbook for everyone after that. And if anyone thinks that tedium==fun, then, let me tell you about how much ore I had to mine in WoW to make it to Armorsmith. Easily as ted... I mean, FUN... as anything in EQ1.)
I though it was "Constantly spam/whine until a high-level cleric rezzes you so you recoup 90% of your 'lost' XP".
96%, but a fine point indeed.
Lizard_SF
Daffid011
Today's EQ is nothing like Classic EQ, so lets start there.
Have you ever done the VT key quest? Now that is a quest, sure you can read online on how to do it but that is just the start of it. You, the player, have to hunt down the mobs that drop the key parts. Their is not map showing you were or an arrow pointing them out for you. The quest needed groups to finish 3 of the 10 key parts. The other key parts could be soloed with some luck and some talent. Nothing in WoW comes close to this kind of quest and this is only one example.
Second. Dieing in WoW has zero risk. You lose nothing, not even enough money to make you think twice even in full plate (I am a warrior and started my DK). So you do not have to grind out money to repair in WOW, just doing a single quest can net you enough gold to repair for months.
Dieing in EQ was rough, it made players learn their classes better, it make players better overall. It forced players to "play" nice with others to get help when they died in a place they could not get to solo to get a corpse. You had to spend your time grinding to make up for the lost exp.
I have never died in a place that I could not get my corpse back in WoW solo. I just do not get what you are saying here. After you die in WoW you are a ghost that can go anywhere without getting any arggo. In EQ, you respawned nake and were alive and had to fight/sneak your way back to your corpse and sometimes it was in a spot you simply could not get it back without help from others. (again I am not talking about EQ today, I am talking about EQ classic. EQ today put in summoning guys you pay due to lack of population)
Also your "In WOW you have to grind money to repair after death" is such a joke that while you are grinding for this gold you are gaining exp which means you are advancing your character even when you are trying to fix your equipment. Which goes back to my their is nothing in WoW that stops you from moving forward expect yourself and time. In EQ you had to grind the exp you lost and since you are getting back the exp you lost in the first place you are not advancing your character which means that death hurts and is something you had to fear.
Death in WoW is used to travel, I have done it, you have done, everyone that has or is playing WoW has used death to quick travel because death means NOTHING.
Sooner or Later
I never considered EQs spawn timers as a way of judging how 'hard' the content is, but those timers do serve a purpose. If the devs want to control the influx of loot into the game, one of the tools they use to control that flow is the spawn timer. When you do not limit the flow of loot into a game, using WoW as an example, you reduce the value of those items. With the abundance of welfare epics today, the sense of accomplishment you got in the older games is pretty much gone.
This sounds like zillions of quests in WoW. The lack of "arrows" doesn't mean anything, if you know the zone/region/spawn rates (which you can look up online), you just go there and wait. Built-in quest helpers just acknowledge the fact that after the first week, no one "solves" quests on their own. There wasn't one quest in EQ where I couldn't go online and find out the coordinates for the mobs, their spawn rates, their drop tables, and anything else I needed to know. Hell, my wife started playing EQ because I used her to look stuff up for me on her computer while I played on mine, and she thought it looked so cool she got into it. Moving this information into the game interface itself just acknowledges reality.
You need a group to do part of it? Ditto any quest in WoW that requires you to enter a dungeon, unless you wait until you're so far past the quest level that doing it is probably pointless.
I played EQ in 1999 and again in 2003-2004, so I'm pretty familiar with "classic". Again, you confuse "standing around doing nothing" with "hard". Killing 1000 pink goblins in order to spawn the red goblin doesn't make the red goblin any harder to kill, it just makes it take longer.
I agree the death penalty in EQ promoted a much more cautious style of gameplay. However, this doesn't mean the game is "harder", per se, just that the penalties for failure are more severe and so you're more risk averse. That is, in WoW, you might take on a fight you know you have only a 50/50 chance of winning, while in EQ, you probably wouldn't. (Unless you know a high level cleric, and these days, who doesn't?)
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_consensus_effect
Current state of EQ vs. WoW opinion.
"There is only one thing of which I am certain, and that's nothing is certain."
Your right WoW is the best MMOG but not the best MMORPG, because now its basically just a lobby game like Diablo was.