You hear that? I think that's the mob of people who are going to tell you that EVE is the best thing since sliced bread coming. Anyway, that's kind of the same impression I got. I didn't like how you had to be patient in order to enjoy the game. I'm not impatient, it's just that I play games to alleviate the burden of time, not the opposite.
Funny you should say that, this is a quote directly from a friend I play eve with; " I could spend 5 hours scanning down signatures and look up and think; Wow...i just spent 5 hrs doing that?"
And I can say the same myself, some stuff in Eve are so much fun that you could spend a whole day in Eve just doing that one thing, so yes eve does alleviate the burden of time. Unless there's another context to which that statement is referred.
Do I or sonoggi strike you as blind haters? I think he explained his point very well and he and I are entitled to our opinion without you branding us as haters. "Hater" is a word thrown very easily anyway. Easy way out to the fan trying to defend his/her game. A forfeit.
ive been playing the game since beta, and here are a few things that arent myths (mostly in regards to pvp): - the game is a giant grind if you enjoy pvp. pvp is expensive once you skill up for t2/t3 ships. you will lose a lot, and it hurts. there are a few ways of making money efficiently, and theyre extremely boring. for the most part, this is what did me in. - which brings me to the next point: the game is a huge timesink. ive never ever experienced another activity IRL that requires this much dedication. pvp ops can take hours. making enough for a new tech 2 ship can take 4-5 hours for a seasoned player. unless youre just playing with the market and doing PVE, other people will usually dictate how much time you spend in EVE per day, and how much fun you have. - balanced pvp is difficult to find. if you enjoy small-gang warfare, you may roam for hours before finding a good fight. most people dont like joining blobs, but tend to do so anyway just to preserve their ship and get on some killmails - you will get decimated by older players. they will have faction mods, t2 or t3 ships, vent, several alts scouting, experience. if anyone tells you otherwise, that's the myth. griefing noobs is everyone's favourite activity in EVE. a kill is a kill. - you will never catch up. some will say you can train up for pvp in a few days and "tackle". tackling is boring, you will be the first to die because more advanced ships/equipment will melt you in seconds, and you'll contribute next to nothing. in reality it will take you 4-6 months to train up for a decent t2 ship and to be effective - depending on your standards, you may need to invest several months into the game before you can start to have fun. even when you unlock the best gear and ships, there is no guarantee you will find the fun - again, depending on your standards, you may never find a good corp. i was a part of a few good ones, but ultimately you will get tired of depending on others to engage in pvp. having a coordinated group and scouts is a necessity if you wanna keep your ship. i played EVE for a few years, did just about everything, flew many ships and had lots of assets, was a part of some of the best pvp corps. i quit because i got tired of looking for a good fight, and of grinding in order to pvp. unfortunately, the entire game revolves around people losing their ships and grinding for new ones. if you enjoy the monotonous pve of EVE, then most of the things i stated may not apply.
Listen to this guy, he knows what he's talking about.
Seriously, its not hard to see the game for what it is when you don't have the fanboy blinders on & he nailed it perfectly.
First off EVE is about your corp, you need to be in one unless you just like doing simple mining and pve, which I dont minda. But you also could be a hard core trader and there are lots of arbtrage opporutnities in this game
But it only takes about a month to be effective will you be cannon fodder maybe, but its still fun jumping in a frigate and just going after anything you can target in a large fleet battle.
granted a lot of fights you will be in wont be fair. becuase who the hell wants to lose. becuase you see these game has consequences to death, you can lose your ship, your clone, your station and your system and you dont want to lose those things so you try to trounce the guy coming after you.
you can participate in smaller gangs that roam and harrass the enemy. but it can take a while to find those gangs. and have the fun is wondering what each new jump will bring you to becuase you can accidently jump in on massive fleet that wipes you theres actuall real tension in this game.
and thats the jist when you succeed you feel great but when you fail it could really suck.
I'll also balance out with my experiences since my are quite different then Sonoggi's
ive been playing the game since beta, and here are a few things that arent myths (mostly in regards to pvp): - the game is a giant grind if you enjoy pvp. pvp is expensive once you skill up for t2/t3 ships. you will lose a lot, and it hurts. there are a few ways of making money efficiently, and theyre extremely boring. for the most part, this is what did me in. There are actually quite a few different ways to make money and I have done them all at one point in time. The non-restricted character aspect of EVE means that as soon as something your doing for money becomes a grind you can shift to something else for a while. The need for T2/T3 ships in PVP is very restricted to a subset mentality of pvp. I would guess that at least 75% of PVP ships are Tech 2 fitted T1 ships. In any quality group where you will be losing any ships in any quantity should have a ship replacement policy to help with or completely cover losses. - which brings me to the next point: the game is a huge timesink. ive never ever experienced another activity IRL that requires this much dedication. pvp ops can take hours. making enough for a new tech 2 ship can take 4-5 hours for a seasoned player. unless youre just playing with the market and doing PVE, other people will usually dictate how much time you spend in EVE per day, and how much fun you have. I've never had anyone besides myself dictate how much time I have to play EVE. Yes, I am currently part of one of the main power blocs and I play when I can for how long I can. As I said above because we do lose ships with some frequency we have an Alliance and Corp ship replacement/refund policy for losses. This brings the player loss of a T2 ship down into a very reasonable cost. PVP ops can take hours, they can also take less. It all depends on what the op will entail and most FCs will give you a rough idea of how long it will take. I've never been talk to because I can't make an op because it will take too long. A lot of this is dependant on the group you hook up with in EVE. There are bad groups that will use you, I've been in them early on and left them in a heartbeat. - balanced pvp is difficult to find. if you enjoy small-gang warfare, you may roam for hours before finding a good fight. most people dont like joining blobs, but tend to do so anyway just to preserve their ship and get on some killmails EVE is never about balanced PVP, EVE is a game of attrition for fights. Its never about just one fight its about the campaign. Making your opponent lose more then you is everything. You fight with every possible advantage you can. Even in a near equal numbers fight you try to fight at the range and location that you want. If your in Close range ships you try to get in and knife fight a sniper fleet. As a sniper fleet you try to stay at range. You fight where you want how you want. That is how you win in PVP in EVE. Everyone does it, everyone expects it. There are no Battleground or instanced PVP in EVE every fight effects something so its fought for keeps. - you will get decimated by older players. they will have faction mods, t2 or t3 ships, vent, several alts scouting, experience. if anyone tells you otherwise, that's the myth. griefing noobs is everyone's favourite activity in EVE. a kill is a kill. Older players do have an advantage in Experience playing the game and they will use every bit of it they can. That said T2/T3/ Faction is generally overrated. T2 gear is about the most common piece of advance gear and you'll see everyone using it. Its also generally very affordable with a T2 fit for a BS running in 20mil range for upwards of a 130mil BS. T2/T3 ships are very expensive and generally very specialized. Also T2/T3 ships are not significantly more survivable compared to a T1 ship in most cases (Command ships are an exception to this.) A very reasonable BS gang can easily drop most T2/T3 ships and at the end of the fight they have hurt the wallet of their enemies more then the enemy hurt theirs. Faction gear is extremely rare in PVP in the Sub-capital arena with the exception of ammo which is reasonable. Its usually far more expensive then T2 for equal or minimally better stats. - you will never catch up. some will say you can train up for pvp in a few days and "tackle". tackling is boring, you will be the first to die because more advanced ships/equipment will melt you in seconds, and you'll contribute next to nothing. in reality it will take you 4-6 months to train up for a decent t2 ship and to be effective I've seen many players be effective with in their first 2-3 months. You won't need a T2 ship. I have 70mil Sp which is no small sum can fly almost any T2 ship and you'll almost never see me in one. a Good T1 Battleship with T2 equipment is fairly easy to train for. You won't have T2 weapons but you can get second best named guns for reasonable and be able to fight just fine. T2 ships are nice and have their roles but most ships that are used are going to be T1 ships due to their cost. T2 fit BS loss will hurt you in the 20-40mil range per loss something that is easy to recover and replace through isk gathering methods. - depending on your standards, you may need to invest several months into the game before you can start to have fun. even when you unlock the best gear and ships, there is no guarantee you will find the fun It is true that when you unlock the best gear and ships you may not have fun. But honestly you should never wait to unlock the best gear and ships. There is no need to invest large amounts of time to start having fun. You should look after your first month or two to get into some PVP somewhere. But that said you can easily get into PVP sooner if you want. Remembering the EVE motto " Never fly what you can't afford to lose" is key. Making a 50-60 million and buying a bunch of T1 frigates and go run around in factional warfare is a lot of fun simple and easy to do for cheap as a new player. Sure you'll lose a bunch of them but they are cheap and easily replaced. - again, depending on your standards, you may never find a good corp. i was a part of a few good ones, but ultimately you will get tired of depending on others to engage in pvp. having a coordinated group and scouts is a necessity if you wanna keep your ship. This is very important but has nothing to do with standards its all a mind set. EVE is rarely about solo gains in the larger arena. I look at working towards bigger and better things with my corp/alliance so I happily look at ways to work with my corp/ally mates to improve our position. Most of the larger corps/alliances most of the people understand that EVE is a team game in every aspect. The lone wolf can accomplish a lot but in the grand scheme of things he will fall to an organized group. The biggest problem EVE has is trying to get players to make that switch mentaly from the far more normal MMO of the group is there to further the individuals advancement. i played EVE for a few years, did just about everything, flew many ships and had lots of assets, was a part of some of the best pvp corps. i quit because i got tired of looking for a good fight, and of grinding in order to pvp. unfortunately, the entire game revolves around people losing their ships and grinding for new ones. if you enjoy the monotonous pve of EVE, then most of the things i stated may not apply.
A lot of PVE in every MMO is monotonous, in that regard EVE is really no different. Thing is there is several things you can do and it is very easy to switch between them as one gets boring. Recently I got sick and tired of living in wormhole space, I was making lots of money but I'd been doing it for almost 6 months. So I changed up and now I'm fighting with the Northern Coalition and running Plexes, ratting, and mining for money when I feel the desire to. Eventually I will get bored of doing that and maybe I will go back to building stuff and more serious R&D or maybe I'll go back to missions. or maybe I will finally do Factional warfare with my main just so that i can get some ranks on him. There are a lot of different things in EVE all of which can be boring in large quantities. EVE however allows you to break that up by trying something different when it does.
First off EVE is about your corp, you need to be in one unless you just like doing simple mining and pve, which I dont minda. But you also could be a hard core trader and there are lots of arbtrage opporutnities in this game But it only takes about a month to be effective will you be cannon fodder maybe, but its still fun jumping in a frigate and just going after anything you can target in a large fleet battle. granted a lot of fights you will be in wont be fair. becuase who the hell wants to lose. becuase you see these game has consequences to death, you can lose your ship, your clone, your station and your system and you dont want to lose those things so you try to trounce the guy coming after you. you can participate in smaller gangs that roam and harrass the enemy. but it can take a while to find those gangs. and have the fun is wondering what each new jump will bring you to becuase you can accidently jump in on massive fleet that wipes you theres actuall real tension in this game. and thats the jist when you succeed you feel great but when you fail it could really suck.
I can honestly say I enjoyed the game just as much in 04/2005 as I do today, and maybe more. I spent my first day going from an Ibis to a condor, and the next several days getting a moa and badger. Then I joined a small corp of total noobs and we had a blast. Today, I'm really not sure what we did for over a year, but it wasn't anything CCP thought we should be doing. I never came anywhere near having enough standing to do L4 missions for well over a year when the noob corp disbannded. We where just flying around the sandbox doing what ever came to mind and having fun. I think a big part of it was we never thought about catching up to other players, or that there was a certain set of rules we were supposed to follow. We just took the game for what it was and made it fun. As you say, the game has always been about your corp.
75% of PVP ships are Tech 2 fitted T1 ships. - this is absolutely not true; not sure if youre just playing FW or RvB, but most pvp OPs require specialized ships like sniper HACs, recons, covops, etc. skilling up to tech 2 on a cruiser or BS takes months, not sure where ure coming from.
EVE is never about balanced PVP - it really really isnt, and this isnt a good thing
Faction gear is extremely rare in PVP in the Sub-capital arena with the exception of ammo which is reasonable. Its usually far more expensive then T2 for equal or minimally better stats. - again, not true. not sure if youre an EVE old-timer who just plays the markets nowadays, but just a few months back most experienced pvp'ers were decked out in faction gear, as well as plex gear. these give you a huge advantage.
I have 70mil Sp which is no small sum can fly almost any T2 ship and you'll almost never see me in one - exactly. with this much xp (i had about 30mill) it's the equivalent of having a lvl 80 of every class with t10 gear in WoW. a person entering the game wont have access to these kinds of options for 1+ year. due to this, i think youre speaking a totally different language in your post ( a very biased one, no offense).
Making a 50-60 million and buying a bunch of T1 frigates and go run around in factional warfare is a lot of fun simple and easy to do for cheap as a new player. Sure you'll lose a bunch of them but they are cheap and easily replaced. - again, depends on the person's standards. you may not lose all those t1 ships, but you will contribute next to nothing. an experienced pilot in a recon cruiser will replace 10 noobs in t1 frigates. tackling is mindless, and youre cannon fodder. i often times flew in blobs of t1 frigs as wreaked havoc on alliance x's space, causing half a bill in damage while losing maybe 10mill worth of ships and gear. this is extremely rare in EVE. fun, but hardly ever happens
This is very important but has nothing to do with standards its all a mind set. - not really. you literally, physically need other bodies to be successful in pvp. being successful as a lone wolf is possible with a huge amount of pvp experience and at least 20mill SP. oh, and it requires a second account for a scout alt. it's not possible without an alt.
So I changed up and now I'm fighting with the Northern Coalition and running Plexes, ratting, and mining for money when I feel the desire to. Eventually I will get bored of doing that and maybe I will go back to building stuff and more serious R&D or maybe I'll go back to missions. or maybe I will finally do Factional warfare with my main just so that i can get some ranks on him. - you sound like an experienced PVE'er / market player who enjoys the game, and im happy for you. i knew lots of players like you who loved the game for the reasons you listed. however, i was coming from a pvp perspective. pvp, in my opinion, is a disaster in EVE and therefore your options in the game are extremely limited unless you have an extremely high tolerance for grinding (grinding isk, grinding relationships, whatever). this explains why EVE has a cult-like following: those who love it, really love it, but it makes for a small, narrow-minded community.
" you may not lose all those t1 ships, but you will contribute next to nothing"
compare t1 thorax (t1 equipment) with it's t2 version (t2 equipment) the deimos. rough estimates so give or take 20%
cost: 15 mil vs 140 mil
dps: 350 vs 650
tank: 20k vs 37k
speed: 1k vs 1.5k
These ships are closer than most t1 vs t2 but with no limits to the size of your gang turning down people in t1 ships cause they don't contribute would be idiocy.
"but just a few months back most experienced pvp'ers were decked out in faction gear, as well as plex gear."
Ok in all my time in eve I have only known 1 player to consistently use entire sets of faction/officer gear in pvp. Many players may stick one or two pieces on, and ammo is pretty popular but entire sets is rare on pvp sub-capitals. Faction ships have become a lot more common but saying people mostly fly faction is just crazy. Also think it's important to point out that faction has low skill requirments so it's not like something only available to experienced players, hell you can even find rare cases where new players have decided to put all their money into a faction item/ship which makes them competitive with some of the high skill equipment that wouldn't be available for a while (think CNR vs golem).
Kinda hard to get proof on this claim, but I typed in 'eve killboard' into google clicked on the first killboard to pop up and looked at the last 15 kills. Only 2 of those had faction ammo fitted no faction equipment (though I remember seeing a faction ship on one of the killmails).
Seriuosly though from my experience with wow the gap is much smaller bigger (woops typo) between old players and new than in eve. wow you may be able to hit 80 rather quick but a brand new lvl 80 is still miles bellow a 3 year old veteran with all the best equipment. In eve there's actually an advantage to fitting the lower level equipment (cost) and this doesn't go away at any level.
75% of PVP ships are Tech 2 fitted T1 ships. - this is absolutely not true; not sure if youre just playing FW or RvB, but most pvp OPs require specialized ships like sniper HACs, recons, covops, etc. skilling up to tech 2 on a cruiser or BS takes months, not sure where ure coming from.
EVE is never about balanced PVP - it really really isnt, and this isnt a good thing
Faction gear is extremely rare in PVP in the Sub-capital arena with the exception of ammo which is reasonable. Its usually far more expensive then T2 for equal or minimally better stats. - again, not true. not sure if youre an EVE old-timer who just plays the markets nowadays, but just a few months back most experienced pvp'ers were decked out in faction gear, as well as plex gear. these give you a huge advantage.
I have 70mil Sp which is no small sum can fly almost any T2 ship and you'll almost never see me in one - exactly. with this much xp (i had about 30mill) it's the equivalent of having a lvl 80 of every class with t10 gear in WoW. a person entering the game wont have access to these kinds of options for 1+ year. due to this, i think youre speaking a totally different language in your post ( a very biased one, no offense).
Making a 50-60 million and buying a bunch of T1 frigates and go run around in factional warfare is a lot of fun simple and easy to do for cheap as a new player. Sure you'll lose a bunch of them but they are cheap and easily replaced. - again, depends on the person's standards. you may not lose all those t1 ships, but you will contribute next to nothing. an experienced pilot in a recon cruiser will replace 10 noobs in t1 frigates. tackling is mindless, and youre cannon fodder. i often times flew in blobs of t1 frigs as wreaked havoc on alliance x's space, causing half a bill in damage while losing maybe 10mill worth of ships and gear. this is extremely rare in EVE. fun, but hardly ever happens
This is very important but has nothing to do with standards its all a mind set. - not really. you literally, physically need other bodies to be successful in pvp. being successful as a lone wolf is possible with a huge amount of pvp experience and at least 20mill SP. oh, and it requires a second account for a scout alt. it's not possible without an alt.
So I changed up and now I'm fighting with the Northern Coalition and running Plexes, ratting, and mining for money when I feel the desire to. Eventually I will get bored of doing that and maybe I will go back to building stuff and more serious R&D or maybe I'll go back to missions. or maybe I will finally do Factional warfare with my main just so that i can get some ranks on him. - you sound like an experienced PVE'er / market player who enjoys the game, and im happy for you. i knew lots of players like you who loved the game for the reasons you listed. however, i was coming from a pvp perspective. pvp, in my opinion, is a disaster in EVE and therefore your options in the game are extremely limited unless you have an extremely high tolerance for grinding (grinding isk, grinding relationships, whatever). this explains why EVE has a cult-like following: those who love it, really love it, but it makes for a small, narrow-minded community.
What are you crying about? That it's going to take you a year to compete in pvp against players that have been playing for years?
No shit sherlock! Welcome to sandbox pvp. If you want a game that requires less time investment play a themepark with pvp as an after thought.
I don't understand the issue here? T2 and faction shit is very good for pvp and should take a while to get into and it should have an advantage over new t1 players.
With that said its all tossed out the window once you start roaming in a gang.
What are we doing here? comparing pvp accessibility of Eve to WoW? LOL!!! Obviously its more accessible. If I wanted a game that let me hang with 5 year old players 1v1 in less than 3 months i would be playing WoW.
Seriuosly though from my experience with wow the gap is much smaller between old players and new than in eve. wow you may be able to hit 80 rather quick but a brand new lvl 80 is still miles bellow a 3 year old veteran with all the best equipment.
Clue needed super fast.
So you start out with your new WOW toon and your hitting for about 30 damage and a guy playing for 3 months is hitting for 25k.
No where, and I mean no where, in the EVE universe will you see this type of gap. New players in EVE always have some type of angle to exploit, and old player always have a weakness to protect. You can be on the same field, in the same battle, from day one.....Period! Just can't do that in WOW!
As for faction, It's true that some null sec types specialize in faction fitted, too the extreme PVP only play. This can be expensive and very difficult to keep up with. TBH tho this is a very small group of people, very small, only a small percent of a small percent.
It is perhaps worth mentioning that 1v1 PvP is easily the rarest type of PvP. If you're worried about your 6-month old character getting easily owned by 6 year old players, then fly with 2 or 3 more 6-month old characters. You will then slaughter pretty much any 6-year old player who's dumb enough to stick around.
Just accept that SP don't equal levels. You cannot make an equation like "60M SP = level 60 so 1M SP = level 1"
ive been playing the game since beta, and here are a few things that arent myths (mostly in regards to pvp): - the game is a giant grind if you enjoy pvp. pvp is expensive once you skill up for t2/t3 ships. you will lose a lot, and it hurts. there are a few ways of making money efficiently, and theyre extremely boring. for the most part, this is what did me in. ummm No? I've been a BoB/IT member for years now and I can go afk for months, come back (if we still have our space) and start straight away again. Try to do that in WoW where you have a gear disadvantage from NY to Tokyo by then. - which brings me to the next point: the game is a huge timesink. ive never ever experienced another activity IRL that requires this much dedication. pvp ops can take hours. making enough for a new tech 2 ship can take 4-5 hours for a seasoned player. unless youre just playing with the market and doing PVE, other people will usually dictate how much time you spend in EVE per day, and how much fun you have. Again, I'm comparing it to "normal" MMORPGS here, I got the same complaint from a (27y and 36y olds) EQ+WOW players at work, but they don't mind doing MANDATORY raids 5-6 nights a week from 19:30 to 1AM...and need I to remind they have a job, a wife and children?...... if you join a big alliance, they want you to fight yes, but you can also do small roams or get small scale -short- fights, like we do a LOT. You will have bullies ingame demanding players to play at certain times, they will expect a fight, maybe those alliances are not for you. I like to play WoW from time to time, but I detest that hardcore raiding atmosphere, so I know what's going to happen if I join a hardcore raiding guild, yes? Same thing with EVE, if you want to do our own thing---> do it and keep that in mind when you want to join a corporation and search the right one fitted to your needs. Spending 4-5 hours for a decent t2 ship, wrong. Do a complex, get the loot, it gets me 200-500 million in 20 mins. I gave a EVE trial to a guy at work he was richer then me when I finished my 1st few weeks in EVE, by playing casual. - balanced pvp is difficult to find. if you enjoy small-gang warfare, you may roam for hours before finding a good fight. most people dont like joining blobs, but tend to do so anyway just to preserve their ship and get on some killmails It's like in the real world, some people like 1 vs 1, but you mention small gang warfare, don't you kill that lone guy flying into you? Thought so, kinda unfair isn't it? As a FC in small gangs I ALWAYS make sure we have at least 1 option to get out asap in case we encounter a "blob" which we don't want to fight at uneven odds, which we rarely run away from btw. - you will get decimated by older players. they will have faction mods, t2 or t3 ships, vent, several alts scouting, experience. if anyone tells you otherwise, that's the myth. griefing noobs is everyone's favourite activity in EVE. a kill is a kill. True, older players tend to be more experienced -but that's expected from people who play for much longer- , but I saw a 2004 player in my corp getting killed by a 2009 player. So that opinion doesn't stand as well. You ALWAYS have a chance, you just need to know how to play it out, and you can always run away. - you will never catch up. some will say you can train up for pvp in a few days and "tackle". tackling is boring, you will be the first to die because more advanced ships/equipment will melt you in seconds, and you'll contribute next to nothing. in reality it will take you 4-6 months to train up for a decent t2 ship and to be effective Again false. Tackling is not boring, I recommend it to newbs as well, as it's a premier way to learn PVP on a cheap scale. I seldom die in my tackler, You just do not fly to a ship at 0km and sit still while tackling and watch your opponent kill you off. and a decent t1 tackler will piss anyone off. - depending on your standards, you may need to invest several months into the game before you can start to have fun. even when you unlock the best gear and ships, there is no guarantee you will find the fun TOTAL nonsense. Unless you are like the avg WOW player we encounter with the first question in EVE: "How do I get to the highest level the fastest?" If you don't find fun in the game, you let other people dictate your playtime (and maybe learning the skills they want you to learn) and you are doing it wrong. DO YOUR OWN THING IN THE GAME. - again, depending on your standards, you may never find a good corp. i was a part of a few good ones, but ultimately you will get tired of depending on others to engage in pvp. having a coordinated group and scouts is a necessity if you wanna keep your ship. Partly nonsense, it depends on your ship. If you fly a 200 million slow heavily tanked battleship ALONE with no intel from hostilities around you, you will die soon. if you fly a small fast ship (cheap or expensive); you can operate alone. Like I see pirates doing roaming in our space ever day. (with success) And also people need to watch out themselves instead of focusing on 1 target and not watching what's entering their system. And with roaming fleets, yes, scouts are kinda needed, but you brought that upon yourself by attracting all the attention with flying in a fleet through hostile space. i played EVE for a few years, did just about everything, flew many ships and had lots of assets, was a part of some of the best pvp corps. i quit because i got tired of looking for a good fight, and of grinding in order to pvp. unfortunately, the entire game revolves around people losing their ships and grinding for new ones. if you enjoy the monotonous pve of EVE, then most of the things i stated may not apply. This game is for everyone, you can mine, fly alone, fly in fleets, produce stuff, sell/buy it. Just keep in mind you have to use your BRAIN. What you lose in a fight or trade is LOST. It's not like WoW of "ooh I died, nasty rogue, ok back to the graveyard and start again" And the risk of losing that nice ship (be it cheap fitted or expensive fitted/pimped) makes the adrenaline flow even more. The writer of the post I quote tries to make it so that rich/experienced players do not feel their losses. Well, 99% of them DO. I have to encounter the first player in a faction fitted fotm ship worth billions who hasn't regretted putting it into a fight and losing it against 'inferior' ships. The newb player will risk his 1 million ship with his total wallet of 5 million while a usual 'veteran' loses 2 billion with his 5 billion wallet. They all feel it, they just don't moan about it and try to earn money ingame to replace it again and learn from the fight.
"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"
Sonoggi is dead on. You are looking at 4-6 months of training to be decent at a ship in PvP. While you can still PvP nicely in T1 hulls at the BC/BS level, you need expensive modules thatcant be insured, as well as rigs that together can cost more than the hull. I disagree with him in that you can catch up to a vet depending on the ship, but it takes time. Everything else though he is right on the money.
Kyleran mentions sleepers, but you are going to need to sink serious time first to be able to actually tackle them as a corp. He mentions using t1 hulls, but he is talking factional warfare, which is never 1 on 1, and these days is unbalanced as hell since the caldari and amarr aren't putting up much of a fight. He misses entirely the point of small-gang warfare: it's that the big fleet ops aren't fun and have no strategy. What blobs do is remove any real sense to victory because the fight never is close.
Nicoli is a little more balanced. Yes you can shift moneymaking styles, but it takes time to train them to do so efficiently. If you start out doing missions and decide to switch to mining, you need to train up mining specific skills to even approach your old income. Some ways to make money are better for solo players, some for group. There's less freedom in practice because most players tend to graviate to skills only effective in one school of moneymaking.
Most PvP ops will take a long time though, unless you live right next door to targets. The sheer amount of time it takes to gather the fleet, and slowy move it gate after gate is surprisngly long, let alone how sparse targets may be. He also really doesn't get why balanced fights are fun, because even with using attrition or varied strategies, battles can be over in minutes, or seconds. There's no attrition when you call primary and 6 battleships nuke your cruiser. I'd also disagree with him about the rarity of high meta or t2 gear on ships: just browse killboards and you will see a lot of it. Effective in 2-3 months is pushing it, unless the new player religiously follows EVEMON skill plans and knows what he wants to do in the game already.
As for waiting to have fun, missing the point. You simply wont have fun if all you can do is try and tackle in a frig, or last a few seconds as a dessy in a fight. To have fun you need to feel like your contribution matters, but the skill system works against it short term. Your best bet is just to be willing to learn, either solo in a corp, and be patient and realistic about the time you need to matter.
EVE pve is boring as hell though.
Muke is kind of eh. He is part of one of the largest alliances in the game: of course he will get money easily. He also doesn't get that it is possible not to raid in PvE games, but if you don't PvP in EVE there is nothing to do. Tackling is not that fun, really. I've done it, and all you dont really learn that much about PvP from it. Your purpose is just to hold a target and hope their fc doesnt call you primary. He also misses the thing about standards-people need to feel they can contribute before they can have fun, and people who dont find tackling fun often feel they need months of training time to at least contribute.
Sonoggi has really been more like my experience in game.
Sonoggi is dead on. You are looking at 4-6 months of training to be decent at a ship in PvP. While you can still PvP nicely in T1 hulls at the BC/BS level, you need expensive modules thatcant be insured, as well as rigs that together can cost more than the hull. I disagree with him in that you can catch up to a vet depending on the ship, but it takes time. Everything else though he is right on the money. Kyleran mentions sleepers, but you are going to need to sink serious time first to be able to actually tackle them as a corp. He mentions using t1 hulls, but he is talking factional warfare, which is never 1 on 1, and these days is unbalanced as hell since the caldari and amarr aren't putting up much of a fight. He misses entirely the point of small-gang warfare: it's that the big fleet ops aren't fun and have no strategy. What blobs do is remove any real sense to victory because the fight never is close. Nicoli is a little more balanced. Yes you can shift moneymaking styles, but it takes time to train them to do so efficiently. If you start out doing missions and decide to switch to mining, you need to train up mining specific skills to even approach your old income. Some ways to make money are better for solo players, some for group. There's less freedom in practice because most players tend to graviate to skills only effective in one school of moneymaking. Most PvP ops will take a long time though, unless you live right next door to targets. The sheer amount of time it takes to gather the fleet, and slowy move it gate after gate is surprisngly long, let alone how sparse targets may be. He also really doesn't get why balanced fights are fun, because even with using attrition or varied strategies, battles can be over in minutes, or seconds. There's no attrition when you call primary and 6 battleships nuke your cruiser. I'd also disagree with him about the rarity of high meta or t2 gear on ships: just browse killboards and you will see a lot of it. Effective in 2-3 months is pushing it, unless the new player religiously follows EVEMON skill plans and knows what he wants to do in the game already. As for waiting to have fun, missing the point. You simply wont have fun if all you can do is try and tackle in a frig, or last a few seconds as a dessy in a fight. To have fun you need to feel like your contribution matters, but the skill system works against it short term. Your best bet is just to be willing to learn, either solo in a corp, and be patient and realistic about the time you need to matter. EVE pve is boring as hell though. Muke is kind of eh. He is part of one of the largest alliances in the game: of course he will get money easily. He also doesn't get that it is possible not to raid in PvE games, but if you don't PvP in EVE there is nothing to do. Tackling is not that fun, really. I've done it, and all you dont really learn that much about PvP from it. Your purpose is just to hold a target and hope their fc doesnt call you primary. He also misses the thing about standards-people need to feel they can contribute before they can have fun, and people who dont find tackling fun often feel they need months of training time to at least contribute. Sonoggi has really been more like my experience in game.
Wow what a load! I would counter these one by one but the quality of your post really doesn't warrant it.
Fortunately for me this vid pretty much shows you don’t have a clue. (although there are several little clues in your post too). If you pay attention you will see that the FC is in a cruiser and (it’s hard to make out) there are at least a dozen figs. Not exactly faction goodness here, of course very few players risk that outside of PVE.
What you really see here is that in a complete and well designed game like EVE everyone plays and everyone contributes…….And everyone has fun.
Whats really funny is that if you look close you can see the FC isn't even using T2 drones and he is leading the entire fleet LOL
Originally posted by qazymanClue needed super fast.
No just someone to recheck my posts. that was a very bad typo =s.... thx for catching it.
would very much like to restress that.
the gap between high end players and low end players is MUCH MUCH smaller in eve than in other mmo's. Also eve is designed so that the low end ships and players still serve an important role in combat. The problem with aiming for fair fighting is you need all your fighters to be around the same level otherwise your low end players will hold you back. In eve you bring every single person you can get your hands on to the fight, no one is left behind cause they havn't got tier 7 gear or they already have enough of that class. If your worried about not contributing look at the post I posted above (particularly the t1 vs t2 comparison), a couple weeks and you could have that t1 ship while months could be spent to get that t2 ship maxed out.
Originally posted by qazyman Wow what a load! I would counter these one by one but the quality of your post really doesn't warrant it.
8 min of EVE combat Fortunately for me this vid pretty much shows you dont have a clue. (although there are several little clues in your post too). If you pay attention you will see that the FC is in a cruiser and (its hard to make out) there are at least a dozen figs. Not exactly faction goodness here, of course very few players risk that outside of PVE. What you really see here is that in a complete and well designed game like EVE everyone plays and everyone contributes .And everyone has fun.
A bit of fanatism, huh?
flydowntome: I could argue some of your points but there is no reason, you are entitled to your own opinion.
I disgree the whole game is as you describe but I do think that it can seem like that to many.
Having options is one thing, taking an opportunity they offer is another.
Ever since the news of Dust 541 (or was it 514? 415? Bahhh....), I really wanted to give it a try. Unfortunately, there are some things said about the game that has prevented me from playing it sooner, so I hope you guys can clear some things up. 1) "If you don't know anyone who plays this game, you're going to get raped." 2) "All you ever do in this game is mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, and mine even more ores from asterioids." 3) "The game is old, so everyone in there is already l33t and you'll feel out of place." (Kind of pertains to no. 1) 4) "It's a true sandbox game, so you can permanently too everything and all the months/years you put into it can be for nothing." Just trying to get a better picture of the game. I did try the 14-day free trial, but something tells me, I barley even scatched the surface.
1) is completely not true. EVE has solo play potential through mining, mission running, hauling, trade and even invention and manufacturing can be done with just one person. However it is easy to find people to share the game with in game. Corporations are always looking for like minded players to join their band.
2) This is so utterly wrong. There is almost no limit to what you can do in EVE as a profession, some have even gone out of EVE to create in game professions. There are web designers, musicians, writers, radio show hosts and more outside the game for in game benefit and in game the choices are huge. I have a miner character and enjoy it from time to time. I also have a hauler, an RP character and for fun while I am killing time this week I have started a new character that is going assasin/merc/bodyguard. What you do in game is limited you YOUR imagination.
3) Yes there are players with way maxed skills but even a new player can have an impact. A couple of new players acting as pirates can take the most experienced character and make him hurt, something no other game I know of offers.
4) Not sure I understand this one but yes the game is a true sandbox. You get from the game what you put in.
EVE is not for everyone, it is unforgiving, harsh, cruel, deep, flexable, complex, open and so many other adjetives I do not know where to start. EVE requires time and effort from you to get something from it. You do not play EVE, you experience it.
Fortunately for me this vid pretty much shows you don’t have a clue. (although there are several little clues in your post too). If you pay attention you will see that the FC is in a cruiser and (it’s hard to make out) there are at least a dozen figs. Not exactly faction goodness here, of course very few players risk that outside of PVE.
What you really see here is that in a complete and well designed game like EVE everyone plays and everyone contributes…….And everyone has fun.
A bit of fanatism, huh?
flydowntome:
I could argue some of your points but there is no reason, you are entitled to your own opinion.
I disgree the whole game is as you describe but I do think that it can seem like that to many.
Having options is one thing, taking an opportunity they offer is another.
If you you can argue some of the points, please do so. Most of my experiences from Eve players is that they are, quite accurately, "fanatic fanbois". It would be a shame that my experiences from this community would be left like it is. Currently I don't hold much respect to the average Eve player.
I'd be interested in finding reasons why people see things so differently. I agree with sonoggi and flydowntome. My gaming experience is very broad. Does some of these opinions spur from the fact that they have no other games to compare their experiences? Does someone still see it as a "space" and "world" when all I see is different colored skyboxes with things in them? Is it the illusion? -All I see is a game, all in all quite average at that.
Why do these fanbois defend furiously even Eve's most weakest aspects? Things that have been acknowledged by the devs themselves. This is really irrational and this kind of fanatism is beyond my understanding.
I am a big fan of Guild Wars but I can still examine it with objectivity. I have not seen such fanatism there. Does it come from the fact that eventually you'll spend a lot more time and effort in Eve? Do you need to "defend" your assets and your time invested?
EDIT: I forgot mention that the main tactic of Eve players in an argument is to discredit the opponent or insult him/her somehow. Not really argue any points. Examples can be found throughout these forums, but I'm sure this "strategy" is not only known to the Eve players.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been-Wayne Gretzky
Comments
Funny you should say that, this is a quote directly from a friend I play eve with; " I could spend 5 hours scanning down signatures and look up and think; Wow...i just spent 5 hrs doing that?"
And I can say the same myself, some stuff in Eve are so much fun that you could spend a whole day in Eve just doing that one thing, so yes eve does alleviate the burden of time. Unless there's another context to which that statement is referred.
This is not a game.
You quoted me first remember?
Never called you a hater.
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
Why did you bring it up then unless its a hint?
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
Listen to this guy, he knows what he's talking about.
Seriously, its not hard to see the game for what it is when you don't have the fanboy blinders on & he nailed it perfectly.
Why did you bring it up then unless its a hint?
So a person posts a random comment in a eve thread and you assume its directed toward you?
Kinda odd dont you think?
If i thought you were a hater i would have quoted you and told you so.
What I will say is that I havent seen one constructive post come from you in this forum yet.
Does that make you a hater? you tell me.
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
First off EVE is about your corp, you need to be in one unless you just like doing simple mining and pve, which I dont minda. But you also could be a hard core trader and there are lots of arbtrage opporutnities in this game
But it only takes about a month to be effective will you be cannon fodder maybe, but its still fun jumping in a frigate and just going after anything you can target in a large fleet battle.
granted a lot of fights you will be in wont be fair. becuase who the hell wants to lose. becuase you see these game has consequences to death, you can lose your ship, your clone, your station and your system and you dont want to lose those things so you try to trounce the guy coming after you.
you can participate in smaller gangs that roam and harrass the enemy. but it can take a while to find those gangs. and have the fun is wondering what each new jump will bring you to becuase you can accidently jump in on massive fleet that wipes you theres actuall real tension in this game.
and thats the jist when you succeed you feel great but when you fail it could really suck.
A lot of PVE in every MMO is monotonous, in that regard EVE is really no different. Thing is there is several things you can do and it is very easy to switch between them as one gets boring. Recently I got sick and tired of living in wormhole space, I was making lots of money but I'd been doing it for almost 6 months. So I changed up and now I'm fighting with the Northern Coalition and running Plexes, ratting, and mining for money when I feel the desire to. Eventually I will get bored of doing that and maybe I will go back to building stuff and more serious R&D or maybe I'll go back to missions. or maybe I will finally do Factional warfare with my main just so that i can get some ranks on him. There are a lot of different things in EVE all of which can be boring in large quantities. EVE however allows you to break that up by trying something different when it does.
I can honestly say I enjoyed the game just as much in 04/2005 as I do today, and maybe more. I spent my first day going from an Ibis to a condor, and the next several days getting a moa and badger. Then I joined a small corp of total noobs and we had a blast. Today, I'm really not sure what we did for over a year, but it wasn't anything CCP thought we should be doing. I never came anywhere near having enough standing to do L4 missions for well over a year when the noob corp disbannded. We where just flying around the sandbox doing what ever came to mind and having fun. I think a big part of it was we never thought about catching up to other players, or that there was a certain set of rules we were supposed to follow. We just took the game for what it was and made it fun. As you say, the game has always been about your corp.
So I changed up and now I'm fighting with the Northern Coalition and running Plexes, ratting, and mining for money when I feel the desire to. Eventually I will get bored of doing that and maybe I will go back to building stuff and more serious R&D or maybe I'll go back to missions. or maybe I will finally do Factional warfare with my main just so that i can get some ranks on him. - you sound like an experienced PVE'er / market player who enjoys the game, and im happy for you. i knew lots of players like you who loved the game for the reasons you listed. however, i was coming from a pvp perspective. pvp, in my opinion, is a disaster in EVE and therefore your options in the game are extremely limited unless you have an extremely high tolerance for grinding (grinding isk, grinding relationships, whatever). this explains why EVE has a cult-like following: those who love it, really love it, but it makes for a small, narrow-minded community.
Just thought I'd add some more fuel to the fire
" you may not lose all those t1 ships, but you will contribute next to nothing"
compare t1 thorax (t1 equipment) with it's t2 version (t2 equipment) the deimos. rough estimates so give or take 20%
cost: 15 mil vs 140 mil
dps: 350 vs 650
tank: 20k vs 37k
speed: 1k vs 1.5k
These ships are closer than most t1 vs t2 but with no limits to the size of your gang turning down people in t1 ships cause they don't contribute would be idiocy.
"but just a few months back most experienced pvp'ers were decked out in faction gear, as well as plex gear."
Ok in all my time in eve I have only known 1 player to consistently use entire sets of faction/officer gear in pvp. Many players may stick one or two pieces on, and ammo is pretty popular but entire sets is rare on pvp sub-capitals. Faction ships have become a lot more common but saying people mostly fly faction is just crazy. Also think it's important to point out that faction has low skill requirments so it's not like something only available to experienced players, hell you can even find rare cases where new players have decided to put all their money into a faction item/ship which makes them competitive with some of the high skill equipment that wouldn't be available for a while (think CNR vs golem).
Kinda hard to get proof on this claim, but I typed in 'eve killboard' into google clicked on the first killboard to pop up and looked at the last 15 kills. Only 2 of those had faction ammo fitted no faction equipment (though I remember seeing a faction ship on one of the killmails).
Seriuosly though from my experience with wow the gap is much smaller bigger (woops typo) between old players and new than in eve. wow you may be able to hit 80 rather quick but a brand new lvl 80 is still miles bellow a 3 year old veteran with all the best equipment. In eve there's actually an advantage to fitting the lower level equipment (cost) and this doesn't go away at any level.
Edit: for epic typo fail
Into the breach meatbags
So I changed up and now I'm fighting with the Northern Coalition and running Plexes, ratting, and mining for money when I feel the desire to. Eventually I will get bored of doing that and maybe I will go back to building stuff and more serious R&D or maybe I'll go back to missions. or maybe I will finally do Factional warfare with my main just so that i can get some ranks on him. - you sound like an experienced PVE'er / market player who enjoys the game, and im happy for you. i knew lots of players like you who loved the game for the reasons you listed. however, i was coming from a pvp perspective. pvp, in my opinion, is a disaster in EVE and therefore your options in the game are extremely limited unless you have an extremely high tolerance for grinding (grinding isk, grinding relationships, whatever). this explains why EVE has a cult-like following: those who love it, really love it, but it makes for a small, narrow-minded community.
What are you crying about? That it's going to take you a year to compete in pvp against players that have been playing for years?
No shit sherlock! Welcome to sandbox pvp. If you want a game that requires less time investment play a themepark with pvp as an after thought.
I don't understand the issue here? T2 and faction shit is very good for pvp and should take a while to get into and it should have an advantage over new t1 players.
With that said its all tossed out the window once you start roaming in a gang.
What are we doing here? comparing pvp accessibility of Eve to WoW? LOL!!! Obviously its more accessible. If I wanted a game that let me hang with 5 year old players 1v1 in less than 3 months i would be playing WoW.
I just don't see the issue.
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
So you start out with your new WOW toon and your hitting for about 30 damage and a guy playing for 3 months is hitting for 25k.
No where, and I mean no where, in the EVE universe will you see this type of gap. New players in EVE always have some type of angle to exploit, and old player always have a weakness to protect. You can be on the same field, in the same battle, from day one.....Period! Just can't do that in WOW!
As for faction, It's true that some null sec types specialize in faction fitted, too the extreme PVP only play. This can be expensive and very difficult to keep up with. TBH tho this is a very small group of people, very small, only a small percent of a small percent.
They don't represent the game at all Snoogi!
It is perhaps worth mentioning that 1v1 PvP is easily the rarest type of PvP. If you're worried about your 6-month old character getting easily owned by 6 year old players, then fly with 2 or 3 more 6-month old characters. You will then slaughter pretty much any 6-year old player who's dumb enough to stick around.
Just accept that SP don't equal levels. You cannot make an equation like "60M SP = level 60 so 1M SP = level 1"
Give me liberty or give me lasers
"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"
For someone who played EVE for so long and did 'about everything', your point of view is pretty narrow mined...
For someone who played EVE for so long and did 'about everything', your point of view is pretty narrow mined...
this.
I play EVE since launch practically and am still learning A LOT of things.
"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"
For someone who played EVE for so long and did 'about everything', your point of view is pretty narrow mined...
this.
I play EVE since launch practically and am still learning A LOT of things.
There isn't lot of thing you can do in EVE but there is a lot of ways to do it.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
Can you provide an example of what 'lots of things to do' would supposed to be?
Sonoggi is dead on. You are looking at 4-6 months of training to be decent at a ship in PvP. While you can still PvP nicely in T1 hulls at the BC/BS level, you need expensive modules thatcant be insured, as well as rigs that together can cost more than the hull. I disagree with him in that you can catch up to a vet depending on the ship, but it takes time. Everything else though he is right on the money.
Kyleran mentions sleepers, but you are going to need to sink serious time first to be able to actually tackle them as a corp. He mentions using t1 hulls, but he is talking factional warfare, which is never 1 on 1, and these days is unbalanced as hell since the caldari and amarr aren't putting up much of a fight. He misses entirely the point of small-gang warfare: it's that the big fleet ops aren't fun and have no strategy. What blobs do is remove any real sense to victory because the fight never is close.
Nicoli is a little more balanced. Yes you can shift moneymaking styles, but it takes time to train them to do so efficiently. If you start out doing missions and decide to switch to mining, you need to train up mining specific skills to even approach your old income. Some ways to make money are better for solo players, some for group. There's less freedom in practice because most players tend to graviate to skills only effective in one school of moneymaking.
Most PvP ops will take a long time though, unless you live right next door to targets. The sheer amount of time it takes to gather the fleet, and slowy move it gate after gate is surprisngly long, let alone how sparse targets may be. He also really doesn't get why balanced fights are fun, because even with using attrition or varied strategies, battles can be over in minutes, or seconds. There's no attrition when you call primary and 6 battleships nuke your cruiser. I'd also disagree with him about the rarity of high meta or t2 gear on ships: just browse killboards and you will see a lot of it. Effective in 2-3 months is pushing it, unless the new player religiously follows EVEMON skill plans and knows what he wants to do in the game already.
As for waiting to have fun, missing the point. You simply wont have fun if all you can do is try and tackle in a frig, or last a few seconds as a dessy in a fight. To have fun you need to feel like your contribution matters, but the skill system works against it short term. Your best bet is just to be willing to learn, either solo in a corp, and be patient and realistic about the time you need to matter.
EVE pve is boring as hell though.
Muke is kind of eh. He is part of one of the largest alliances in the game: of course he will get money easily. He also doesn't get that it is possible not to raid in PvE games, but if you don't PvP in EVE there is nothing to do. Tackling is not that fun, really. I've done it, and all you dont really learn that much about PvP from it. Your purpose is just to hold a target and hope their fc doesnt call you primary. He also misses the thing about standards-people need to feel they can contribute before they can have fun, and people who dont find tackling fun often feel they need months of training time to at least contribute.
Sonoggi has really been more like my experience in game.
Wow what a load! I would counter these one by one but the quality of your post really doesn't warrant it.
8 min of EVE combat
Fortunately for me this vid pretty much shows you don’t have a clue. (although there are several little clues in your post too). If you pay attention you will see that the FC is in a cruiser and (it’s hard to make out) there are at least a dozen figs. Not exactly faction goodness here, of course very few players risk that outside of PVE.
What you really see here is that in a complete and well designed game like EVE everyone plays and everyone contributes…….And everyone has fun.
Whats really funny is that if you look close you can see the FC isn't even using T2 drones and he is leading the entire fleet LOL
Guess you guy's don't know much about EVE : o
No just someone to recheck my posts. that was a very bad typo =s.... thx for catching it.
would very much like to restress that.
the gap between high end players and low end players is MUCH MUCH smaller in eve than in other mmo's. Also eve is designed so that the low end ships and players still serve an important role in combat. The problem with aiming for fair fighting is you need all your fighters to be around the same level otherwise your low end players will hold you back. In eve you bring every single person you can get your hands on to the fight, no one is left behind cause they havn't got tier 7 gear or they already have enough of that class. If your worried about not contributing look at the post I posted above (particularly the t1 vs t2 comparison), a couple weeks and you could have that t1 ship while months could be spent to get that t2 ship maxed out.
Into the breach meatbags
A bit of fanatism, huh?
flydowntome:
I could argue some of your points but there is no reason, you are entitled to your own opinion.
I disgree the whole game is as you describe but I do think that it can seem like that to many.
Having options is one thing, taking an opportunity they offer is another.
1) is completely not true. EVE has solo play potential through mining, mission running, hauling, trade and even invention and manufacturing can be done with just one person. However it is easy to find people to share the game with in game. Corporations are always looking for like minded players to join their band.
2) This is so utterly wrong. There is almost no limit to what you can do in EVE as a profession, some have even gone out of EVE to create in game professions. There are web designers, musicians, writers, radio show hosts and more outside the game for in game benefit and in game the choices are huge. I have a miner character and enjoy it from time to time. I also have a hauler, an RP character and for fun while I am killing time this week I have started a new character that is going assasin/merc/bodyguard. What you do in game is limited you YOUR imagination.
3) Yes there are players with way maxed skills but even a new player can have an impact. A couple of new players acting as pirates can take the most experienced character and make him hurt, something no other game I know of offers.
4) Not sure I understand this one but yes the game is a true sandbox. You get from the game what you put in.
EVE is not for everyone, it is unforgiving, harsh, cruel, deep, flexable, complex, open and so many other adjetives I do not know where to start. EVE requires time and effort from you to get something from it. You do not play EVE, you experience it.
=============================
I have a soap box and I am not afraid to use it.
A bit of fanatism, huh?
flydowntome:
I could argue some of your points but there is no reason, you are entitled to your own opinion.
I disgree the whole game is as you describe but I do think that it can seem like that to many.
Having options is one thing, taking an opportunity they offer is another.
If you you can argue some of the points, please do so. Most of my experiences from Eve players is that they are, quite accurately, "fanatic fanbois". It would be a shame that my experiences from this community would be left like it is. Currently I don't hold much respect to the average Eve player.
I'd be interested in finding reasons why people see things so differently. I agree with sonoggi and flydowntome. My gaming experience is very broad. Does some of these opinions spur from the fact that they have no other games to compare their experiences? Does someone still see it as a "space" and "world" when all I see is different colored skyboxes with things in them? Is it the illusion? -All I see is a game, all in all quite average at that.
Why do these fanbois defend furiously even Eve's most weakest aspects? Things that have been acknowledged by the devs themselves. This is really irrational and this kind of fanatism is beyond my understanding.
I am a big fan of Guild Wars but I can still examine it with objectivity. I have not seen such fanatism there. Does it come from the fact that eventually you'll spend a lot more time and effort in Eve? Do you need to "defend" your assets and your time invested?
EDIT: I forgot mention that the main tactic of Eve players in an argument is to discredit the opponent or insult him/her somehow. Not really argue any points. Examples can be found throughout these forums, but I'm sure this "strategy" is not only known to the Eve players.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky