I have no experience of WoW's PvP but I have a hunch you're slightly dramatic. I believe that even WoW, as gear centric it may be, has plenty of player skill factors contributing to the outcome of PvP.
Level is the primary attribute that defines win or loss. Gear is the second most important. Player skill (ability to play one's character effectively) runs a distant third. As conflict mostly exists in preset matches with predefined starting points on static maps, things like pre-planning, strategy and positioning have very little impact on victory. The impact of level and gear on outcome in WOW is very dramatic, not slightly.
i would even go so far as to say that in games like WoW the only factors defining outcome are gear and level, the players actual skill is largely irrelevant, one of the reasons i prefer Eve to WoW, though i still play WoW because, if you ignore the pvp its actually a fun game....Eve is the other way around, the most defining factor is player skill/knowledge, equipment and levels (such as they are) will help, but won't make a bad player a good one.
though they will make a really good player a major nuisance factor in any engagement
But the basis of your argument fails completely when we talk about high-end PvP. It is quite safe to say right now that a large portion of the players in WoW have reached the level cap. Most PvP players are at the level cap, not including the very first months of a game. Everyone is equal in character power after that. When the level is the same, and the gear is the same, thats when the skill is the only thing that matters - unless its zerg - then nothing applies except numbers.
Some games divide the PvP in tiers where the characters are within a reasonable level-range of each other. So there just isn't any PvP between 1st lvl characters and max level characters. It just doesn't happen unless the game has some type of FFA PvP with/or no level restriction in zones.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been-Wayne Gretzky
8 min of EVE combat ... What you really see here is that in a complete and well designed game like EVE everyone plays and everyone contributes…….And everyone has fun.
Ok thanks for showing me this.
Up to this point in time I actually thought that combat EVE takes more skill than everyone targeting the exact same target. Definitely not the type of game I am looking for.
That being said I envy those who find this entertaining, they have a game to play and I dont ...
Small gang warfare is wee bit better but I know exactly how you feel.
So you don't focus fire in other pvp games? Btw Qazyman that video made the hairs on my neck stand up. truely epic shit.
Yeah, that which you know as normal fleet action in Eve was a tactic known as "spike" or "spiking" and "single target pressure" in Guild Wars while I was playing (terms may vary slightly). It really depends how fast you do the damage really.
-Spiking is to get the target killed faster than the healers can heal (like killing with alpha in Eve) or protection character can "prot"(no equivalent in Eve)
-Pressure is to overwhelm the target with so much damage that the enemy monks are drained of their mana -> note that the kill is a bonus - the main objective is to burn mana.
I can assure you there is plenty of more ways to win in GW than these. That is why others(or atleast GW players) may find Eve's combat a bit dull. Even if there are more tactics than this, it is by far the most popular and used. I have not seen any other tactic used. EWar mixes this a bit though, which is refreshing.
This can't be helped. Fancier tactics don't work in large fleet battles. Especially when there are players with mixed experience. Focus fire is simple, easy and still very effective.
EDIT: Almost forgot! AT had some varying tactics which were great. Best PvP I've seen in Eve. Sadly they had also the best players and rules unlike most of Eve's PvP.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been-Wayne Gretzky
But the basis of your argument fails completely when we talk about high-end PvP. It is quite safe to say right now that a large portion of the players in WoW have reached the level cap. Most PvP players are at the level cap, not including the very first months of a game. Everyone is equal in character power after that. When the level is the same, and the gear is the same, thats when the skill is the only thing that matters - unless its zerg - then nothing applies except numbers.
Wow does not work that way. Gear takes a lot longer to get than lvl 80 most people spend their time raiding to get it.
But the basis of your argument fails completely when we talk about high-end PvP. It is quite safe to say right now that a large portion of the players in WoW have reached the level cap. Most PvP players are at the level cap, not including the very first months of a game. Everyone is equal in character power after that. When the level is the same, and the gear is the same, thats when the skill is the only thing that matters - unless its zerg - then nothing applies except numbers.
Wow does not work that way. Gear takes a lot longer to get than lvl 80 most people spend their time raiding to get it.
So you're suggesting that only a small portion have "maxed out" their characters in WoW? -Ugh... reminds me of WAR. You had to do ridiculous amount of work to some of the best gear. Bad. Very bad.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been-Wayne Gretzky
Even Black Prophecy tries to have a balanced PvP as suggested in the interview I've linked. We are left to see how this gear impacts the combat. It still might be "imbalanced".
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been-Wayne Gretzky
Originally posted by Quirhid Yeah, that which you know as normal fleet action in Eve was a tactic known as "spike" or "spiking" and "single target pressure" in Guild Wars while I was playing (terms may vary slightly). It really depends how fast you do the damage really. -Spiking is to get the target killed faster than the healers can heal (like killing with alpha in Eve) or protection character can "prot"(no equivalent in Eve) -Pressure is to overwhelm the target with so much damage that the enemy monks are drained of their mana -> note that the kill is a bonus - the main objective is to burn mana. I can assure you there is plenty of more ways to win in GW than these. That is why others(or atleast GW players) may find Eve's combat a bit dull. Even if there are more tactics than this, it is by far the most popular and used. I have not seen any other tactic used. EWar mixes this a bit though, which is refreshing. This can't be helped. Fancier tactics don't work in large fleet battles. Especially when there are players with mixed experience. Focus fire is simple, easy and still very effective. EDIT: Almost forgot! AT had some varying tactics which were great. Best PvP I've seen in Eve. Sadly they had also the best players and rules unlike most of Eve's PvP.
If you focus fire only in eve your fleets going to go down a lot faster then mine. High logistics fleets can easily rep focus fire in a lot of cases. Last fight we figured that my self and the other 15 guardians could pump out something like a 400k DPS worth of tank on the damnation they tried to alpha. Their FC didn't adapt and they lost a lot of ships. earlier in the fleet when trying to drop a pos we ended up leaving because they put so much pressure on us Logistics pilots that we couldn't stick around to help the other members of our fleet. We mix in scorpion and blackbird pilots to jam up their logistics or we damp them down so they take to long to respond.
A good fleet isn't all about spiking or pressure... its about getting warp ins, controlling ranges, Maintaining logistical and EWAR superiority, Ensuring that you have Intel on possible enemy reinforcements and maintaining a way out. Calling primaries is about the easiest thing a FC has to do.
Be honest GW or EVE and pretty much any MMO follows the basic mentality of real life combat tactics core fundamentals.
1. Fight on ground favorable to you
2. Fight at a range favorable to you
3. Deny your opponents ability to manuever against you while manuevering to better positions against him
4. Deny support to your opponent while protecting yours.
Of all the MMOs I've played EVE has been one of the few that 1 actually takes part in determining the victor.
Everyone is equal in character power after that. When the level is the same, and the gear is the same, thats when the skill is the only thing that matters
I don't think you're talking about MMO's here this sounds like multiplayer FPS play to me, and I know for a fact you're not talking about skill but immersion. You think you are skillful because an excellent game developer has created a depth of immersion that allows you to imagine things that aren't real. The actual skill involved in using a mouse and keyboard is pretty low and most gamers adapt to it with ease.
I will admit that there is obviously a place for the WOW model, and I understand where the “can’t catch up” myth comes from. Having highly developed and skilled fantasy characters running around an amazing game world is, again obviously, a good idea.
On the other whoo, if your trying to tell me that a game where you can play for four years and still have whole branches of game play undiscovered, and really want to discover them, is an inferior model, you are always going to fail.
EDIT: As to BP it really does look great and I think it will stop JG in it's tracks. Still, I think what we are going to see out of this is that joystick PVE type games sound so cool, but in practice have a short shelf life. I do hope this is not the case here, because the game looks awesome.
I think it goes to the lack of a ground game that all space games have, and PVE just isn't enough to carry an MMO without a ground game. We'll see?
I don't think you're talking about MMO's here this sounds like multiplayer FPS play to me, and I know for a fact you're not talking about skill but immersion. You think you are skillful because an excellent game developer has created a depth of immersion that allows you to imagine things that aren't real. The actual skill involved in using a mouse and keyboard is pretty low and most gamers adapt to it with ease.
Nah, I'm talking about skill as in player skill which what I understand is basically the game knowledge as well as your proficiency with mouse + keyboard. Some games are more skill oriented (FPS , driving games...). Eve is more knowledge oriented. IMany MMOs, if not most of them, are more "knowledge games".
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been-Wayne Gretzky
So you're suggesting that only a small portion have "maxed out" their characters in WoW? -Ugh... reminds me of WAR. You had to do ridiculous amount of work to some of the best gear. Bad. Very bad.
Yes, in fact I think that's very true, only a small (less that 5%) portion of the player base ever reaches max capability in WOW and most other gear centric games, where as in EVE once you max your capabilities in a particular ship you are as good as anyone will ever get.
But the thing is, even though people don't reach max in WOW, that doesn't stop most of them from (who want to) from PVPing anyways, because in the end, while MAX gear is great, if your gear is just "good" (obtainable by many players) you can actually beat the max character if your player skill is better.
Of course, if you and your opponent are equal in skill then you'll lose, but that is such an infrequent occurance its better to shrug it off and kill the targets you can, and not worry about the ones you can't. (or you go get some friends and solve the issue)
If your gear is only average or poor its probably not possible to kill your opponent even if you do out skill him considerably, which again, you don't run into in EVE because its pretty easy to reach an equal footing as long as you are controlling the terms of engagement.
I will agree, most MMORPG's are more about a player's knowledge of the game mechanics and preparation and less about FPS twitch skills and EVE probably stands up at the top of the hill at rewarding players for having superior game knowledge, intel, and to a much less extent, skill points.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I don't think you're talking about MMO's here this sounds like multiplayer FPS play to me, and I know for a fact you're not talking about skill but immersion. You think you are skillful because an excellent game developer has created a depth of immersion that allows you to imagine things that aren't real. The actual skill involved in using a mouse and keyboard is pretty low and most gamers adapt to it with ease.
Nah, I'm talking about skill as in player skill which what I understand is basically the game knowledge as well as your proficiency with mouse + keyboard. Some games are more skill oriented (FPS , driving games...). Eve is more knowledge oriented. IMany MMOs, if not most of them, are more "knowledge games".
Yeah that didn't come out right. Skill is a factor in all games when it comes to PVP. For some strange reason that sentence made me think of modern warfare II. While skill is a factor in it, I often think immersion is just as important. It was "the only thing that matters" part. It just made me think of immersion and FPS.
Everyone is equal in character power after that. When the level is the same, and the gear is the same, thats when the skill is the only thing that matters
I don't think you're talking about MMO's here this sounds like multiplayer FPS play to me, and I know for a fact you're not talking about skill but immersion. You think you are skillful because an excellent game developer has created a depth of immersion that allows you to imagine things that aren't real. The actual skill involved in using a mouse and keyboard is pretty low and most gamers adapt to it with ease.
What in the flying fuck are you talking about? Ok sure the BASICS are easy, but so are Eve's basics.
I'd like to see anyone who can "play" a fps go up against a professional (yes there are people that play these games for a living and make money in tournaments). You would be completely destroyed. And guess what. There is a ton of INTELLIGENCE INVOLVED. I hate people that think FPS games are retarded or something. You have to know the maps. You have to know the spawns. If playing a team game, you need to know your place in one of 10's of strats. In games like Q3, you have to know the timings and locations of items to hopefully gain an advantage.
Yes, you can introduce tactics into EVE but tbh you could also easily win by just bringing more people. That's why I quit the game, it's not fair and YES LIFE IS NOT FAIR BUT THIS IS A GOD DAMN FUCKING GAME. I want my games to be fair because you know, they're an escape from reality. They're not supposed to be like reality (well except for simulation games but those are boring as shit).
I think many people become so hostile towards the EVE community because the most common response to someone not liking the game is "Hahahaha, you must be so stupid, this game is only for intelligent people you are so retarded go back to WoW retard." They might be more nicely worded, but the basic message is still there: "EVE players > anyone else and if you don't think so you must be stupid." Yea right, I bet many of these people are very intelligent they just don't want to play a game that feels like a damn college course. I want to pew pew some stuff for an hour or so, not wait around while my FC tries to get everyone together, then another 3 hours of finding targets,. then a short fight where I jump in, get attacked by lag and find myself in a pod a minute later. That is NOT fun and if you think it is, you're daft.
Everyone is equal in character power after that. When the level is the same, and the gear is the same, thats when the skill is the only thing that matters
I don't think you're talking about MMO's here this sounds like multiplayer FPS play to me, and I know for a fact you're not talking about skill but immersion. You think you are skillful because an excellent game developer has created a depth of immersion that allows you to imagine things that aren't real. The actual skill involved in using a mouse and keyboard is pretty low and most gamers adapt to it with ease.
What in the flying fuck are you talking about? Ok sure the BASICS are easy, but so are Eve's basics.
I'd like to see anyone who can "play" a fps go up against a professional (yes there are people that play these games for a living and make money in tournaments). You would be completely destroyed. And guess what. There is a ton of INTELLIGENCE INVOLVED. I hate people that think FPS games are retarded or something. You have to know the maps. You have to know the spawns. If playing a team game, you need to know your place in one of 10's of strats. In games like Q3, you have to know the timings and locations of items to hopefully gain an advantage.
Yes, you can introduce tactics into EVE but tbh you could also easily win by just bringing more people. That's why I quit the game, it's not fair and YES LIFE IS NOT FAIR BUT THIS IS A GOD DAMN FUCKING GAME. I want my games to be fair because you know, they're an escape from reality. They're not supposed to be like reality (well except for simulation games but those are boring as shit).
I think many people become so hostile towards the EVE community because the most common response to someone not liking the game is "Hahahaha, you must be so stupid, this game is only for intelligent people you are so retarded go back to WoW retard." They might be more nicely worded, but the basic message is still there: "EVE players > anyone else and if you don't think so you must be stupid." Yea right, I bet many of these people are very intelligent they just don't want to play a game that feels like a damn college course. I want to pew pew some stuff for an hour or so, not wait around while my FC tries to get everyone together, then another 3 hours of finding targets,. then a short fight where I jump in, get attacked by lag and find myself in a pod a minute later. That is NOT fun and if you think it is, you're daft.
I think a better question is "What in the flying fuck are you talking about?" LOL
Thanks for the Troll though, I needed a good laugh before I went to bed!
"Im sorry, but EVE is not about PVP. EVE is about the sand that's in the box. It is not a linear game that you have to follow a set path to a set end.
The only thing wrong with that video was the fit on the Thorax. From high sec, to low sec, to most null sec pets, nobody cares about some over riding goal or plan. People just want to blow stuff up as a group and develop group tactics, and this is the majority of EVE's PVP'ers. You can take that same ship (with a different set up), and use the same tactics that pilot was using anywhere in the game.
PVP in EVE is cheap, fun and accesible for anyone in the game. This is not the problem. What you fail to understand is that problem is most people choose not to do it. Not because of the cost or the grind, but because of the simple fear of engaging another person. Once a person gets over that there are plent of options, there all apart of the sand and they all count."
For someone with a Gurista tag this is silly, of course the game is about PvP. The PvE sucks. You can be a market hound, but ISK is useless except-to fund PvP. Industrialists in corps make things for corp members to use in PvP. There's very little in the game that can be done sandboxy that doesn't involve PvP that you can't do in WoW.
"Can you elaborate on how 'cheap T1 ship PVP' isn't viable?"
It isn't viable because you need to overkill in numbers, and your only success is by ISK ratio lost. If you get 20 t1 fit dessies can take out a couple of battleships, that is a "win" despite the fact you just lost 20 ships and everyone on your side is going home in a pod if they arent already getting a new clone. Usually though if you pull the cheap t1 ship approach without a large numerical advantage, you are toast all skills being equal.
"Cheap T1 ships are viable if they're in an organised force. The key is the organisation, not the expense. One of the great powers of cheap T1 ships is that if they get wiped out, it doesn't matter.
My time in EVE has shown one thing above all others: EVE will give you the experience that you expect from it. If you approach it as a level based massively sole grinder, you will get a level based massively solo grind experience. All that stuff we've been talking about in this thread about how cheap T1 ships can be effective and such? That stuff doesn't apply to you, because you dont play the kind of EVE that would make that work. So I will modify the original statement: You dont have to be disadvantaged by low SP."
You are disadvantaged by low SP. That doesn't change anything regardless how many people are flying with you.
I'm not saying you need to buy a character, grind a command ship, or spend a year training skills. You do need to sink SP and time into being effective and enjoying the experience. If you want to PvP, there is a basket of skills you really need to have at a decent level to be more than a disposable tackler. If you want to mission run, you need to train a similar basket. Mining is a different one, trading and invention slightly different.
Once that time is up, then you can contribute effectively. I think most corps are realizing this because I see a lot of "feeder" corps that focus on training newbies for larger corps.
...continuing reply in another post. They need a much better quote system here.
You have to take into account that ofcourse that which I write is my own opinion. Nothing I write is "the truth". I am joined by many in the belief that you can't catch up in Eve. That which was said in another thread about this matter was quite accurate of what I think. Only thing I'd like to add to that is that I consider the opportunity to switch builds is an edge: If you are a new player, veteran players have the option to change to your counter-build.
And this single statement is being dishonest on your part from where I stand. It has been proven countless times that a player can "catch" up vertically in almost every single ship or activity. Within about a year or so you can train up every skill you'll ever need to refine and mine in EVE and no one regardless of time in game will be able to exceed you.
Same with PVP, I've been focused on small (Mauraders and below) ship combat for the past 2.75 years and I have great skills in at least 25 or more ships and have no fear that I'm the perfect equal of any veteran in at least 10 or them.
Doesn't mean they can't fly 40 ships, and maybe 25 to perfection, but that doesn't matter, they end just as dead to my Vagabond if I manage to make sure they are fighting on my terms. Doesn't matter if they have 100M SP's, I'm gonna own them.
I maintain that few pilots can actually fly more than a handful of ships very well, each has its own quirks that takes a lot of practice to get good in, so just because I am decent in a Vagabond doesn't meant I'd do well in an Energy Neut boat. (though I have the skills to do both)
Here's a good example, I have the skills to fly a Heavy Interdictor well. Unfortunately, I've never flown one in combat ever, so I'd be destroyed by anyone who knew the ships capabilities and limitations. My knowing how to fly 10 more ships then them will have nothing to do with the final outcome.
See, many of your "negative" comments are simply a matter of perception, and while its fine that you have them, know that the game actually is played by many and enjoyed, even for some of the very things you try to slam.
Is EVE perfect? Hardly. Tons of room for improvement all over the place. Is EVE one of the best gaming experiences available today despite its flaws?
In my opinion, absolutely.
Catching up depends on the target. Can you catch up as a new player to a veteran flying a single racial interceptor? Absolutely. Can you catch up to a vet that flies a carrier, or can you fly a t3 ship effectively? That's going to take a lot of time. It depends on a player's goals, and their focus.
I agree with the OP though. I play the game, I enjoy it, and I'm not saying this to be hating. I do think there needs to be a little less focus on the myth that new players can instantly jump in and be effective, and more on that you do need to spend time preparing and learning, then the game starts to open up.
"Im sorry, but EVE is not about PVP. EVE is about the sand that's in the box. It is not a linear game that you have to follow a set path to a set end.
The only thing wrong with that video was the fit on the Thorax. From high sec, to low sec, to most null sec pets, nobody cares about some over riding goal or plan. People just want to blow stuff up as a group and develop group tactics, and this is the majority of EVE's PVP'ers. You can take that same ship (with a different set up), and use the same tactics that pilot was using anywhere in the game.
PVP in EVE is cheap, fun and accesible for anyone in the game. This is not the problem. What you fail to understand is that problem is most people choose not to do it. Not because of the cost or the grind, but because of the simple fear of engaging another person. Once a person gets over that there are plent of options, there all apart of the sand and they all count." For someone with a Gurista tag this is silly, of course the game is about PvP. The PvE sucks.
I should point out first that, I am, yes feeding a troll, and that I did read what you wrote.
Nowhere in my post did I mention PVE, the fact that you jump to it in your second sentence screams TROLL. There are many examples in life, and gaming, of things containing something they are not about. EVE clearly is one, you could argue (and I would) that as much as 70% of the game is PVP, and that every time players group together they are engaging in, at least, market PVP by more efficiently attacking resources.
No the PVE in EVE does not suck, many people enjoy it and many more use it to finance larger operations, and it's integral to EVE's PVP.
But EVE has never been about PVP. The game has always been about the freedom to explore and play in a giant space sandbox free from the grind that restricts most games and game worlds. If you where a Gurista you would understand this and why it is important.
Log on to EVE right now! Most players will not be in there ships fighting other players, but most will be involved in some aspect of PVP. They will be doing one the literally hundreds/thousands of activities the game world provides that is about freedom and choices......not direct PVP or linear PVP progression. (Which we were actually talking about before you trolled)
You have to take into account that ofcourse that which I write is my own opinion. Nothing I write is "the truth". I am joined by many in the belief that you can't catch up in Eve. That which was said in another thread about this matter was quite accurate of what I think. Only thing I'd like to add to that is that I consider the opportunity to switch builds is an edge: If you are a new player, veteran players have the option to change to your counter-build.
And this single statement is being dishonest on your part from where I stand. It has been proven countless times that a player can "catch" up vertically in almost every single ship or activity. Within about a year or so you can train up every skill you'll ever need to refine and mine in EVE and no one regardless of time in game will be able to exceed you.
Same with PVP, I've been focused on small (Mauraders and below) ship combat for the past 2.75 years and I have great skills in at least 25 or more ships and have no fear that I'm the perfect equal of any veteran in at least 10 or them.
Doesn't mean they can't fly 40 ships, and maybe 25 to perfection, but that doesn't matter, they end just as dead to my Vagabond if I manage to make sure they are fighting on my terms. Doesn't matter if they have 100M SP's, I'm gonna own them.
I maintain that few pilots can actually fly more than a handful of ships very well, each has its own quirks that takes a lot of practice to get good in, so just because I am decent in a Vagabond doesn't meant I'd do well in an Energy Neut boat. (though I have the skills to do both)
Here's a good example, I have the skills to fly a Heavy Interdictor well. Unfortunately, I've never flown one in combat ever, so I'd be destroyed by anyone who knew the ships capabilities and limitations. My knowing how to fly 10 more ships then them will have nothing to do with the final outcome.
See, many of your "negative" comments are simply a matter of perception, and while its fine that you have them, know that the game actually is played by many and enjoyed, even for some of the very things you try to slam.
Is EVE perfect? Hardly. Tons of room for improvement all over the place. Is EVE one of the best gaming experiences available today despite its flaws?
In my opinion, absolutely.
Catching up depends on the target. Can you catch up as a new player to a veteran flying a single racial interceptor? Absolutely. Can you catch up to a vet that flies a carrier, or can you fly a t3 ship effectively? That's going to take a lot of time. It depends on a player's goals, and their focus.
I agree with the OP though. I play the game, I enjoy it, and I'm not saying this to be hating. I do think there needs to be a little less focus on the myth that new players can instantly jump in and be effective, and more on that you do need to spend time preparing and learning, then the game starts to open up.
I'll agree with you here. EVE is definitely a game that becomes increasingly more entertaining the longer you play because you have more options available.
I guess that's why I like the games design, that first year might have been a bit rough (sort of like an initiation or apprenticeship) but now as I near 3 years the options available not only are vast, but there's still so much more I can still do.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Not true in my case. The more I see, the more ships I can fly, the more kills I get, the more ISK I make... I still like this game less and less. I'm thinking if this game is worth paying for anymore. Past months I've been buying gametime with ISK. Oh how I do hope there comes something worthwhile soon...
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been-Wayne Gretzky
Not true in my case. The more I see, the more ships I can fly, the more kills I get, the more ISK I make... I still like this game less and less. I'm thinking if this game is worth paying for anymore. Past months I've been buying gametime with ISK. Oh how I do hope there comes something worthwhile soon...
Not true in my case. The more I see, the more ships I can fly, the more kills I get, the more ISK I make... I still like this game less and less. I'm thinking if this game is worth paying for anymore. Past months I've been buying gametime with ISK. Oh how I do hope there comes something worthwhile soon...
But then why are you playing a game you dislike, why not go back to AOC or one of the others on your liked list
I get this vision of you playing every night and saying to yourself "God, I hate this shit".
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Not true in my case. The more I see, the more ships I can fly, the more kills I get, the more ISK I make... I still like this game less and less. I'm thinking if this game is worth paying for anymore. Past months I've been buying gametime with ISK. Oh how I do hope there comes something worthwhile soon...
But then why are you playing a game you dislike, why not go back to AOC or one of the others on your liked list
I get this vision of you playing every night and saying to yourself "God, I hate this shit".
Yeah, well maybe I should emphasize the AoC Tortage part. It is not bad, but it has many issues. One of which is that while very fun at first, it quickly becomes very dull.
And I'm gathering up friends to play DDO in a full 6-man group since the vets of that game ruin the game for you with their market buffs and potions, not to mention they know the location of every trap in the dungeon, and they run to the end with haste to finish the dungeon as fast as they can. Sadly I expect us to finish this game in a month or so. We are quite the power gamers.
Guild Wars... yeah... every game gets old at some point. I've played it enough.
I've pretty much tried everything out there that is worthwhile. Eve is a stepping stone. I play this just to see what the fuzz is all about. There just is no other I can be "arsed" to play.
I'll stick a fork in Eve when I've seen the high-end wormholes, have done few lvl 5 missions and have participated in a fight with more than 4 capital ships attending. -Preferably so that both teams have capitals. This stomping on the little man is getting very boring. After that I've seen pretty much all there is to see in Eve, I believe. Aside from events like AT and such.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been-Wayne Gretzky
My main petpeeve for EVE is how travel can become a logistic nightmare. I like risk vs reward in missions and PVP, but not risk vs mindnumbingly boring movement of assets.
I understand however that its a tradeoff for having to keep markets operate locally and making cargohaulers usefull. But it still is a pain
Especially when you move around a lot as explorer.
Starting players get to realise that very early on, if they complete all career agents missions. They will have about 10 ships by then as rewards and no money to pay someone to move them.
I'm personally a huge EVE fanboi and i think it's the best game ever made.
I also think it's still worth starting a new account.
will you ever catch up to those guys that played for years.
NEVER.
you might level with em at some points but then you'll lack the versatillity.
now the question more important is will this ruin your game experience?
it will absolutely not ruin it.
Because of a lot of the already mentioned arguments you will still be able to compete with everyone in this game from day 1.
And to all the people that get turned away by this or don't believe it, just think about this. You invested years in a game and all of a sudden a new guy, few weeks old is in skills totally equal to you? Would you say "wow gee this is a great game where the effort i put in is totally meaningless"... I think not.
The scope of EVE and the concept can not be compared to a lot of games. So the biggest treshold to enjoy this game is to leave all your earlier game experiences at the door and enjoy something new.
If you don't that's ok too, I don't like so many other games and everyone in the end needs to find a game that suits him/her perfectly.
My main petpeeve for EVE is how travel can become a logistic nightmare. I like risk vs reward in missions and PVP, but not risk vs mindnumbingly boring movement of assets.
I understand however that its a tradeoff for having to keep markets operate locally and making cargohaulers usefull. But it still is a pain
Especially when you move around a lot as explorer.
Starting players get to realise that very early on, if they complete all career agents missions. They will have about 10 ships by then as rewards and no money to pay someone to move them.
Interesting. That is actually where the penalty in PvP comes from in EVE: Moving stuff around to where you want/need it.
ISK Costs? You can make the ISK to replace a ship pretty quickly and efficiently. It's getting the replacement out to where you want/need it. That's the real cost factor in the game. The time you spend *NOT* doing what you want to.
I know many veteran players with perhaps 500 mill ISK yet with 10's to hundreds of billions in ships and mods scattered all over the place, just so they don't lose a lot of time when a ship gets blown up. Every so often they go on shopping sprees where they buy up large amounts of stuff and move it to their various stashes so they have it ready when they need it.
So getting into the game is more about having assets than ISK. "But you can get assets with isk!" -- yup, then let's see you get those 20 battleships with rigs, mods & ammo out to the areas you want to have them -- THAT is a trick in and of itself.
Comments
Level is the primary attribute that defines win or loss. Gear is the second most important. Player skill (ability to play one's character effectively) runs a distant third. As conflict mostly exists in preset matches with predefined starting points on static maps, things like pre-planning, strategy and positioning have very little impact on victory. The impact of level and gear on outcome in WOW is very dramatic, not slightly.
i would even go so far as to say that in games like WoW the only factors defining outcome are gear and level, the players actual skill is largely irrelevant, one of the reasons i prefer Eve to WoW, though i still play WoW because, if you ignore the pvp its actually a fun game....Eve is the other way around, the most defining factor is player skill/knowledge, equipment and levels (such as they are) will help, but won't make a bad player a good one.
though they will make a really good player a major nuisance factor in any engagement
But the basis of your argument fails completely when we talk about high-end PvP. It is quite safe to say right now that a large portion of the players in WoW have reached the level cap. Most PvP players are at the level cap, not including the very first months of a game. Everyone is equal in character power after that. When the level is the same, and the gear is the same, thats when the skill is the only thing that matters - unless its zerg - then nothing applies except numbers.
Some games divide the PvP in tiers where the characters are within a reasonable level-range of each other. So there just isn't any PvP between 1st lvl characters and max level characters. It just doesn't happen unless the game has some type of FFA PvP with/or no level restriction in zones.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
Ok thanks for showing me this.
Up to this point in time I actually thought that combat EVE takes more skill than everyone targeting the exact same target. Definitely not the type of game I am looking for.
That being said I envy those who find this entertaining, they have a game to play and I dont ...
Small gang warfare is wee bit better but I know exactly how you feel.
So you don't focus fire in other pvp games? Btw Qazyman that video made the hairs on my neck stand up. truely epic shit.
Yeah, that which you know as normal fleet action in Eve was a tactic known as "spike" or "spiking" and "single target pressure" in Guild Wars while I was playing (terms may vary slightly). It really depends how fast you do the damage really.
-Spiking is to get the target killed faster than the healers can heal (like killing with alpha in Eve) or protection character can "prot"(no equivalent in Eve)
-Pressure is to overwhelm the target with so much damage that the enemy monks are drained of their mana -> note that the kill is a bonus - the main objective is to burn mana.
I can assure you there is plenty of more ways to win in GW than these. That is why others(or atleast GW players) may find Eve's combat a bit dull. Even if there are more tactics than this, it is by far the most popular and used. I have not seen any other tactic used. EWar mixes this a bit though, which is refreshing.
This can't be helped. Fancier tactics don't work in large fleet battles. Especially when there are players with mixed experience. Focus fire is simple, easy and still very effective.
EDIT: Almost forgot! AT had some varying tactics which were great. Best PvP I've seen in Eve. Sadly they had also the best players and rules unlike most of Eve's PvP.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
Wow does not work that way. Gear takes a lot longer to get than lvl 80 most people spend their time raiding to get it.
Into the breach meatbags
Wow does not work that way. Gear takes a lot longer to get than lvl 80 most people spend their time raiding to get it.
So you're suggesting that only a small portion have "maxed out" their characters in WoW? -Ugh... reminds me of WAR. You had to do ridiculous amount of work to some of the best gear. Bad. Very bad.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
Even Black Prophecy tries to have a balanced PvP as suggested in the interview I've linked. We are left to see how this gear impacts the combat. It still might be "imbalanced".
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
If you focus fire only in eve your fleets going to go down a lot faster then mine. High logistics fleets can easily rep focus fire in a lot of cases. Last fight we figured that my self and the other 15 guardians could pump out something like a 400k DPS worth of tank on the damnation they tried to alpha. Their FC didn't adapt and they lost a lot of ships. earlier in the fleet when trying to drop a pos we ended up leaving because they put so much pressure on us Logistics pilots that we couldn't stick around to help the other members of our fleet. We mix in scorpion and blackbird pilots to jam up their logistics or we damp them down so they take to long to respond.
A good fleet isn't all about spiking or pressure... its about getting warp ins, controlling ranges, Maintaining logistical and EWAR superiority, Ensuring that you have Intel on possible enemy reinforcements and maintaining a way out. Calling primaries is about the easiest thing a FC has to do.
Be honest GW or EVE and pretty much any MMO follows the basic mentality of real life combat tactics core fundamentals.
1. Fight on ground favorable to you
2. Fight at a range favorable to you
3. Deny your opponents ability to manuever against you while manuevering to better positions against him
4. Deny support to your opponent while protecting yours.
Of all the MMOs I've played EVE has been one of the few that 1 actually takes part in determining the victor.
Everyone is equal in character power after that. When the level is the same, and the gear is the same, thats when the skill is the only thing that matters
I don't think you're talking about MMO's here this sounds like multiplayer FPS play to me, and I know for a fact you're not talking about skill but immersion. You think you are skillful because an excellent game developer has created a depth of immersion that allows you to imagine things that aren't real. The actual skill involved in using a mouse and keyboard is pretty low and most gamers adapt to it with ease.
I will admit that there is obviously a place for the WOW model, and I understand where the “can’t catch up” myth comes from. Having highly developed and skilled fantasy characters running around an amazing game world is, again obviously, a good idea.
On the other whoo, if your trying to tell me that a game where you can play for four years and still have whole branches of game play undiscovered, and really want to discover them, is an inferior model, you are always going to fail.
EDIT: As to BP it really does look great and I think it will stop JG in it's tracks. Still, I think what we are going to see out of this is that joystick PVE type games sound so cool, but in practice have a short shelf life. I do hope this is not the case here, because the game looks awesome.
I think it goes to the lack of a ground game that all space games have, and PVE just isn't enough to carry an MMO without a ground game. We'll see?
Black Prophecy game play...Very Cool!
Nah, I'm talking about skill as in player skill which what I understand is basically the game knowledge as well as your proficiency with mouse + keyboard. Some games are more skill oriented (FPS , driving games...). Eve is more knowledge oriented. IMany MMOs, if not most of them, are more "knowledge games".
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
Yes, in fact I think that's very true, only a small (less that 5%) portion of the player base ever reaches max capability in WOW and most other gear centric games, where as in EVE once you max your capabilities in a particular ship you are as good as anyone will ever get.
But the thing is, even though people don't reach max in WOW, that doesn't stop most of them from (who want to) from PVPing anyways, because in the end, while MAX gear is great, if your gear is just "good" (obtainable by many players) you can actually beat the max character if your player skill is better.
Of course, if you and your opponent are equal in skill then you'll lose, but that is such an infrequent occurance its better to shrug it off and kill the targets you can, and not worry about the ones you can't. (or you go get some friends and solve the issue)
If your gear is only average or poor its probably not possible to kill your opponent even if you do out skill him considerably, which again, you don't run into in EVE because its pretty easy to reach an equal footing as long as you are controlling the terms of engagement.
I will agree, most MMORPG's are more about a player's knowledge of the game mechanics and preparation and less about FPS twitch skills and EVE probably stands up at the top of the hill at rewarding players for having superior game knowledge, intel, and to a much less extent, skill points.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Nah, I'm talking about skill as in player skill which what I understand is basically the game knowledge as well as your proficiency with mouse + keyboard. Some games are more skill oriented (FPS , driving games...). Eve is more knowledge oriented. IMany MMOs, if not most of them, are more "knowledge games".
Yeah that didn't come out right. Skill is a factor in all games when it comes to PVP. For some strange reason that sentence made me think of modern warfare II. While skill is a factor in it, I often think immersion is just as important. It was "the only thing that matters" part. It just made me think of immersion and FPS.
Everyone is equal in character power after that. When the level is the same, and the gear is the same, thats when the skill is the only thing that matters
I don't think you're talking about MMO's here this sounds like multiplayer FPS play to me, and I know for a fact you're not talking about skill but immersion. You think you are skillful because an excellent game developer has created a depth of immersion that allows you to imagine things that aren't real. The actual skill involved in using a mouse and keyboard is pretty low and most gamers adapt to it with ease.
What in the flying fuck are you talking about? Ok sure the BASICS are easy, but so are Eve's basics.
I'd like to see anyone who can "play" a fps go up against a professional (yes there are people that play these games for a living and make money in tournaments). You would be completely destroyed. And guess what. There is a ton of INTELLIGENCE INVOLVED. I hate people that think FPS games are retarded or something. You have to know the maps. You have to know the spawns. If playing a team game, you need to know your place in one of 10's of strats. In games like Q3, you have to know the timings and locations of items to hopefully gain an advantage.
Yes, you can introduce tactics into EVE but tbh you could also easily win by just bringing more people. That's why I quit the game, it's not fair and YES LIFE IS NOT FAIR BUT THIS IS A GOD DAMN FUCKING GAME. I want my games to be fair because you know, they're an escape from reality. They're not supposed to be like reality (well except for simulation games but those are boring as shit).
I think many people become so hostile towards the EVE community because the most common response to someone not liking the game is "Hahahaha, you must be so stupid, this game is only for intelligent people you are so retarded go back to WoW retard." They might be more nicely worded, but the basic message is still there: "EVE players > anyone else and if you don't think so you must be stupid." Yea right, I bet many of these people are very intelligent they just don't want to play a game that feels like a damn college course. I want to pew pew some stuff for an hour or so, not wait around while my FC tries to get everyone together, then another 3 hours of finding targets,. then a short fight where I jump in, get attacked by lag and find myself in a pod a minute later. That is NOT fun and if you think it is, you're daft.
Everyone is equal in character power after that. When the level is the same, and the gear is the same, thats when the skill is the only thing that matters
I don't think you're talking about MMO's here this sounds like multiplayer FPS play to me, and I know for a fact you're not talking about skill but immersion. You think you are skillful because an excellent game developer has created a depth of immersion that allows you to imagine things that aren't real. The actual skill involved in using a mouse and keyboard is pretty low and most gamers adapt to it with ease.
What in the flying fuck are you talking about? Ok sure the BASICS are easy, but so are Eve's basics.
I'd like to see anyone who can "play" a fps go up against a professional (yes there are people that play these games for a living and make money in tournaments). You would be completely destroyed. And guess what. There is a ton of INTELLIGENCE INVOLVED. I hate people that think FPS games are retarded or something. You have to know the maps. You have to know the spawns. If playing a team game, you need to know your place in one of 10's of strats. In games like Q3, you have to know the timings and locations of items to hopefully gain an advantage.
Yes, you can introduce tactics into EVE but tbh you could also easily win by just bringing more people. That's why I quit the game, it's not fair and YES LIFE IS NOT FAIR BUT THIS IS A GOD DAMN FUCKING GAME. I want my games to be fair because you know, they're an escape from reality. They're not supposed to be like reality (well except for simulation games but those are boring as shit).
I think many people become so hostile towards the EVE community because the most common response to someone not liking the game is "Hahahaha, you must be so stupid, this game is only for intelligent people you are so retarded go back to WoW retard." They might be more nicely worded, but the basic message is still there: "EVE players > anyone else and if you don't think so you must be stupid." Yea right, I bet many of these people are very intelligent they just don't want to play a game that feels like a damn college course. I want to pew pew some stuff for an hour or so, not wait around while my FC tries to get everyone together, then another 3 hours of finding targets,. then a short fight where I jump in, get attacked by lag and find myself in a pod a minute later. That is NOT fun and if you think it is, you're daft.
I think a better question is "What in the flying fuck are you talking about?" LOL
Thanks for the Troll though, I needed a good laugh before I went to bed!
"Im sorry, but EVE is not about PVP. EVE is about the sand that's in the box. It is not a linear game that you have to follow a set path to a set end.
The only thing wrong with that video was the fit on the Thorax. From high sec, to low sec, to most null sec pets, nobody cares about some over riding goal or plan. People just want to blow stuff up as a group and develop group tactics, and this is the majority of EVE's PVP'ers. You can take that same ship (with a different set up), and use the same tactics that pilot was using anywhere in the game.
PVP in EVE is cheap, fun and accesible for anyone in the game. This is not the problem. What you fail to understand is that problem is most people choose not to do it. Not because of the cost or the grind, but because of the simple fear of engaging another person. Once a person gets over that there are plent of options, there all apart of the sand and they all count."
For someone with a Gurista tag this is silly, of course the game is about PvP. The PvE sucks. You can be a market hound, but ISK is useless except-to fund PvP. Industrialists in corps make things for corp members to use in PvP. There's very little in the game that can be done sandboxy that doesn't involve PvP that you can't do in WoW.
"Can you elaborate on how 'cheap T1 ship PVP' isn't viable?"
It isn't viable because you need to overkill in numbers, and your only success is by ISK ratio lost. If you get 20 t1 fit dessies can take out a couple of battleships, that is a "win" despite the fact you just lost 20 ships and everyone on your side is going home in a pod if they arent already getting a new clone. Usually though if you pull the cheap t1 ship approach without a large numerical advantage, you are toast all skills being equal.
"Cheap T1 ships are viable if they're in an organised force. The key is the organisation, not the expense. One of the great powers of cheap T1 ships is that if they get wiped out, it doesn't matter.
My time in EVE has shown one thing above all others: EVE will give you the experience that you expect from it. If you approach it as a level based massively sole grinder, you will get a level based massively solo grind experience. All that stuff we've been talking about in this thread about how cheap T1 ships can be effective and such? That stuff doesn't apply to you, because you dont play the kind of EVE that would make that work. So I will modify the original statement: You dont have to be disadvantaged by low SP."
You are disadvantaged by low SP. That doesn't change anything regardless how many people are flying with you.
I'm not saying you need to buy a character, grind a command ship, or spend a year training skills. You do need to sink SP and time into being effective and enjoying the experience. If you want to PvP, there is a basket of skills you really need to have at a decent level to be more than a disposable tackler. If you want to mission run, you need to train a similar basket. Mining is a different one, trading and invention slightly different.
Once that time is up, then you can contribute effectively. I think most corps are realizing this because I see a lot of "feeder" corps that focus on training newbies for larger corps.
...continuing reply in another post. They need a much better quote system here.
You have to take into account that ofcourse that which I write is my own opinion. Nothing I write is "the truth". I am joined by many in the belief that you can't catch up in Eve. That which was said in another thread about this matter was quite accurate of what I think. Only thing I'd like to add to that is that I consider the opportunity to switch builds is an edge: If you are a new player, veteran players have the option to change to your counter-build.
And this single statement is being dishonest on your part from where I stand. It has been proven countless times that a player can "catch" up vertically in almost every single ship or activity. Within about a year or so you can train up every skill you'll ever need to refine and mine in EVE and no one regardless of time in game will be able to exceed you.
Same with PVP, I've been focused on small (Mauraders and below) ship combat for the past 2.75 years and I have great skills in at least 25 or more ships and have no fear that I'm the perfect equal of any veteran in at least 10 or them.
Doesn't mean they can't fly 40 ships, and maybe 25 to perfection, but that doesn't matter, they end just as dead to my Vagabond if I manage to make sure they are fighting on my terms. Doesn't matter if they have 100M SP's, I'm gonna own them.
I maintain that few pilots can actually fly more than a handful of ships very well, each has its own quirks that takes a lot of practice to get good in, so just because I am decent in a Vagabond doesn't meant I'd do well in an Energy Neut boat. (though I have the skills to do both)
Here's a good example, I have the skills to fly a Heavy Interdictor well. Unfortunately, I've never flown one in combat ever, so I'd be destroyed by anyone who knew the ships capabilities and limitations. My knowing how to fly 10 more ships then them will have nothing to do with the final outcome.
See, many of your "negative" comments are simply a matter of perception, and while its fine that you have them, know that the game actually is played by many and enjoyed, even for some of the very things you try to slam.
Is EVE perfect? Hardly. Tons of room for improvement all over the place. Is EVE one of the best gaming experiences available today despite its flaws?
In my opinion, absolutely.
Catching up depends on the target. Can you catch up as a new player to a veteran flying a single racial interceptor? Absolutely. Can you catch up to a vet that flies a carrier, or can you fly a t3 ship effectively? That's going to take a lot of time. It depends on a player's goals, and their focus.
I agree with the OP though. I play the game, I enjoy it, and I'm not saying this to be hating. I do think there needs to be a little less focus on the myth that new players can instantly jump in and be effective, and more on that you do need to spend time preparing and learning, then the game starts to open up.
I should point out first that, I am, yes feeding a troll, and that I did read what you wrote.
Nowhere in my post did I mention PVE, the fact that you jump to it in your second sentence screams TROLL. There are many examples in life, and gaming, of things containing something they are not about. EVE clearly is one, you could argue (and I would) that as much as 70% of the game is PVP, and that every time players group together they are engaging in, at least, market PVP by more efficiently attacking resources.
No the PVE in EVE does not suck, many people enjoy it and many more use it to finance larger operations, and it's integral to EVE's PVP.
But EVE has never been about PVP. The game has always been about the freedom to explore and play in a giant space sandbox free from the grind that restricts most games and game worlds. If you where a Gurista you would understand this and why it is important.
Log on to EVE right now! Most players will not be in there ships fighting other players, but most will be involved in some aspect of PVP. They will be doing one the literally hundreds/thousands of activities the game world provides that is about freedom and choices......not direct PVP or linear PVP progression. (Which we were actually talking about before you trolled)
You have to take into account that ofcourse that which I write is my own opinion. Nothing I write is "the truth". I am joined by many in the belief that you can't catch up in Eve. That which was said in another thread about this matter was quite accurate of what I think. Only thing I'd like to add to that is that I consider the opportunity to switch builds is an edge: If you are a new player, veteran players have the option to change to your counter-build.
And this single statement is being dishonest on your part from where I stand. It has been proven countless times that a player can "catch" up vertically in almost every single ship or activity. Within about a year or so you can train up every skill you'll ever need to refine and mine in EVE and no one regardless of time in game will be able to exceed you.
Same with PVP, I've been focused on small (Mauraders and below) ship combat for the past 2.75 years and I have great skills in at least 25 or more ships and have no fear that I'm the perfect equal of any veteran in at least 10 or them.
Doesn't mean they can't fly 40 ships, and maybe 25 to perfection, but that doesn't matter, they end just as dead to my Vagabond if I manage to make sure they are fighting on my terms. Doesn't matter if they have 100M SP's, I'm gonna own them.
I maintain that few pilots can actually fly more than a handful of ships very well, each has its own quirks that takes a lot of practice to get good in, so just because I am decent in a Vagabond doesn't meant I'd do well in an Energy Neut boat. (though I have the skills to do both)
Here's a good example, I have the skills to fly a Heavy Interdictor well. Unfortunately, I've never flown one in combat ever, so I'd be destroyed by anyone who knew the ships capabilities and limitations. My knowing how to fly 10 more ships then them will have nothing to do with the final outcome.
See, many of your "negative" comments are simply a matter of perception, and while its fine that you have them, know that the game actually is played by many and enjoyed, even for some of the very things you try to slam.
Is EVE perfect? Hardly. Tons of room for improvement all over the place. Is EVE one of the best gaming experiences available today despite its flaws?
In my opinion, absolutely.
Catching up depends on the target. Can you catch up as a new player to a veteran flying a single racial interceptor? Absolutely. Can you catch up to a vet that flies a carrier, or can you fly a t3 ship effectively? That's going to take a lot of time. It depends on a player's goals, and their focus.
I agree with the OP though. I play the game, I enjoy it, and I'm not saying this to be hating. I do think there needs to be a little less focus on the myth that new players can instantly jump in and be effective, and more on that you do need to spend time preparing and learning, then the game starts to open up.
I'll agree with you here. EVE is definitely a game that becomes increasingly more entertaining the longer you play because you have more options available.
I guess that's why I like the games design, that first year might have been a bit rough (sort of like an initiation or apprenticeship) but now as I near 3 years the options available not only are vast, but there's still so much more I can still do.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Not true in my case. The more I see, the more ships I can fly, the more kills I get, the more ISK I make... I still like this game less and less. I'm thinking if this game is worth paying for anymore. Past months I've been buying gametime with ISK. Oh how I do hope there comes something worthwhile soon...
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
An open world is a terrible thing to waste : D
But then why are you playing a game you dislike, why not go back to AOC or one of the others on your liked list
I get this vision of you playing every night and saying to yourself "God, I hate this shit".
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
But then why are you playing a game you dislike, why not go back to AOC or one of the others on your liked list
I get this vision of you playing every night and saying to yourself "God, I hate this shit".
Yeah, well maybe I should emphasize the AoC Tortage part. It is not bad, but it has many issues. One of which is that while very fun at first, it quickly becomes very dull.
And I'm gathering up friends to play DDO in a full 6-man group since the vets of that game ruin the game for you with their market buffs and potions, not to mention they know the location of every trap in the dungeon, and they run to the end with haste to finish the dungeon as fast as they can. Sadly I expect us to finish this game in a month or so. We are quite the power gamers.
Guild Wars... yeah... every game gets old at some point. I've played it enough.
I've pretty much tried everything out there that is worthwhile. Eve is a stepping stone. I play this just to see what the fuzz is all about. There just is no other I can be "arsed" to play.
I'll stick a fork in Eve when I've seen the high-end wormholes, have done few lvl 5 missions and have participated in a fight with more than 4 capital ships attending. -Preferably so that both teams have capitals. This stomping on the little man is getting very boring. After that I've seen pretty much all there is to see in Eve, I believe. Aside from events like AT and such.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
To see does not count as to understand.
I'm unsure what you're implying. Is this a bait of some sort?
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
My main petpeeve for EVE is how travel can become a logistic nightmare. I like risk vs reward in missions and PVP, but not risk vs mindnumbingly boring movement of assets.
I understand however that its a tradeoff for having to keep markets operate locally and making cargohaulers usefull. But it still is a pain
Especially when you move around a lot as explorer.
Starting players get to realise that very early on, if they complete all career agents missions. They will have about 10 ships by then as rewards and no money to pay someone to move them.
I'm personally a huge EVE fanboi and i think it's the best game ever made.
I also think it's still worth starting a new account.
will you ever catch up to those guys that played for years.
NEVER.
you might level with em at some points but then you'll lack the versatillity.
now the question more important is will this ruin your game experience?
it will absolutely not ruin it.
Because of a lot of the already mentioned arguments you will still be able to compete with everyone in this game from day 1.
And to all the people that get turned away by this or don't believe it, just think about this. You invested years in a game and all of a sudden a new guy, few weeks old is in skills totally equal to you? Would you say "wow gee this is a great game where the effort i put in is totally meaningless"... I think not.
The scope of EVE and the concept can not be compared to a lot of games. So the biggest treshold to enjoy this game is to leave all your earlier game experiences at the door and enjoy something new.
If you don't that's ok too, I don't like so many other games and everyone in the end needs to find a game that suits him/her perfectly.
Interesting. That is actually where the penalty in PvP comes from in EVE: Moving stuff around to where you want/need it.
ISK Costs? You can make the ISK to replace a ship pretty quickly and efficiently. It's getting the replacement out to where you want/need it. That's the real cost factor in the game. The time you spend *NOT* doing what you want to.
I know many veteran players with perhaps 500 mill ISK yet with 10's to hundreds of billions in ships and mods scattered all over the place, just so they don't lose a lot of time when a ship gets blown up. Every so often they go on shopping sprees where they buy up large amounts of stuff and move it to their various stashes so they have it ready when they need it.
So getting into the game is more about having assets than ISK. "But you can get assets with isk!" -- yup, then let's see you get those 20 battleships with rigs, mods & ammo out to the areas you want to have them -- THAT is a trick in and of itself.