The truth is, yes. A lot, if not all of Eve's typical daily activities are indeed 'dead boring' . - I think everyone knows this.
On the flip side, nearly all of my best 'mmo' moments that I'll always remember have occured while playing Eve.
I think while things can get boring in Eve you always feel like your part of something greater than yourself. Mining for example is boring, but mining with others for several weeks then seing that going into ships being built or stations being errected.. it becomes so much more.
Playing Eve is more about being part of something which is more than the sum of its components.
Why do these fanbois defend furiously even Eve's most weakest aspects?
I am a bit surprised you ask such question since the answer is the same as for question Why do these people furiously troll even EVEs strongest aspects?
Considering full text of your post and other statements of yours being type of:
Originally posted by Quirhid
Eve's sales pitch would be something like: "You will have fun... eventually." Or more realistically: "You might have fun... eventually." Others think the wait is not worth it which is perfectly understandable and acceptable.
EDIT: I forgot mention that the main tactic of Eve players in an argument is to discredit the opponent or insult him/her somehow. Not really argue any points. Examples can be found throughout these forums, but I'm sure this "strategy" is not only known to the Eve players.
Just to be fair, you could say the same of most games in these forums.
To your other points, I would consider myself a fan of EvE. I've played a good number of games myself over the past decade so I don't think my being a fan is based on ignorance/inexperience. I can understand other people not enjoying the game though and I imagine that probably shows itself in the trial conversion rate. With that in mind, I enjoy the game for much of what sadeyx says. This game, more then most other MMOs I've played, allows you to be a part of something bigger if you so choose. There are other games that offer variations on that experience, but I like the way EvE does it so far. To me, this is part of what an MMO is about versus a coop game.
Anyhow, got off to rambling, I really just wanted to address your edited point as I do not see that as something unique, or even overly prevalent (in my experience), to the EvE community.
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers. Do something wrong, no one forgets" -from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
You've got to remember that 'Fun' comes to people in many different ways.
I had Fun on eve since the first day I got it but didnt actually join a corp or do any pvp for 6 months.
Now, I found it fun to learn Eve, to figure it out, how to fly how to fit ships, how to do missions, all the different gun types, systems, how the maths works, how the skills work, the market, exploration... I loved it That obviously isnt some peoples idea of fun! People play a game and expect fun to come in the form of shooting things and watching things blow up.
Why do these fanbois defend furiously even Eve's most weakest aspects?
I am a bit surprised you ask such question since the answer is the same as for question Why do these people furiously troll even EVEs strongest aspects?
Considering full text of your post and other statements of yours being type of:
Originally posted by Quirhid
Eve's sales pitch would be something like: "You will have fun... eventually." Or more realistically: "You might have fun... eventually." Others think the wait is not worth it which is perfectly understandable and acceptable.
..it is you who should know the answer the best.
Eve's strongest aspects are decent graphics, strong and devout community, good market and good crafting that supports it. PvE is bad, everyone agrees, but most of the conflict comes from PvP. Many, myself included, consider PvP to be about PvP combat specifically. I don't consider all the non-combat aspects of Eve's PvP to be actual PvP. The combat in itself is very unsatisfying. It's ganking mostly, battles are short, and when you really look at it, it isn't all that deep either.
Theorycrafting is fun, I've spent many hours dwiddling with EFT but it is not PvP for me. Grinding ISK for your next ship or looking for battle is not either. Other games just have better small scale combat. This is why Eve can be quite disappointing.
Eve's weakest aspects are steep learning curve (doesn't mean its hard), bad UI/gameplay/controls, lag (especially in bigger fights) and it has many bugs and quirks which one has to learn to live with in order to enjoy this game.
I'm sure there are more and finer, strong and weak aspects of Eve but those are the ones on top of my head.
The sales pitch comes from my own experiences. I tried Eve's trial three times. Third time lucky - or rather, there wasn't any better game I could play. Many Eve players at that time, like now, said that the fun starts when... [left t o be filled]. The game has not surprised me at any point. I feel the same as I was playing the trial. I was especially disapointed about zero-sec activities. Everyone seemed to talk about zero-sec like it is "the shit", but once I got there, my opinion didn't change.
Fans talked about this game like it had it all, when it really didn't. "All this hassle for this?" was some of the first things that came to mind. Ofcourse I felt like a victim of false advertising. Fanbois are harmful. Sad thing is, there isn't really anything better out there. I've already played through the games I've liked and I am not one to play them again and again (and again...).
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been-Wayne Gretzky
Eve's strongest aspects are decent graphics, strong and devout community, good market and good crafting that supports it. I havent seen a space game that even came near what eve offers so I think its more than "Decent". I agree on the community and Economy. "Crafting" isnt everything did deeper there are many facets of industry in Eve and to say "Crafting makes you look like you either never tried any industry stuff or know squat about eve. PvE is bad, everyone agrees, Subjective. Goto the mission runners forum on the eve site. those people live and die by that mechanic. They fully enjoy all aspects of Eves pve from missions top ratting to wormholes. but most of the conflict comes from PvP. Many, myself included, consider PvP to be about PvP combat specifically. I don't consider all the non-combat aspects of Eve's PvP to be actual PvP. The combat in itself is very unsatisfying. It's ganking mostly, battles are short, and when you really look at it, it isn't all that deep either. If you consider pvp to only relate to combat you don't get the game. It's ok many people play and have no idea what their doing and leave. The combat is anything but unsatisfying to damn near everyone that plays. Most of the people that share your opinion of it just want Eve to be a twitchy game. I don't understand how you could say Eve isnt deep with all the ship/fitting combos, counters and all that. It seems just as or more so complicated and deep as any game I ever played. Theorycrafting is fun, I've spent many hours dwiddling with EFT but it is not PvP for me. Grinding ISK for your next ship or looking for battle is not either. Other games just have better small scale combat. This is why Eve can be quite disappointing. EFT Warrioring is something you do for fun, there is a small select people that do nothing but play with EFT but I think those guys do it because their afraid of the actual ship loss. So you don't like making isk or hunting your prey? sorry we don't have insta pvp mini games in this game but I can direct you to one if you like? Oh and saying eves small scale pvp is bad is utter bullshit. People make a living in eve in small roaming gangs and solo. Eve's weakest aspects are steep learning curve (doesn't mean its hard), bad UI/gameplay/controls, lag (especially in bigger fights) and it has many bugs and quirks which one has to learn to live with in order to enjoy this game. A learning curve is a negative? I see nothing wrong with the UI/Controls it fits the setting I think you expected eve to be a twitch game so now your on the forums crying. As for the Lag this was something that came up with the last expansion before that Eve ran flawlessly lets give the guys a chance to fix it aye? I'm sure there are more and finer, strong and weak aspects of Eve but those are the ones on top of my head. YOu can't think of any negatives because your eve knowledge only goes so far. you picked up some tid bits from negative posts here and have your extensive trial playtime. If you actually played the game your list of negatives would be much greater. As anyones would who actually plays more than a free trial.
The sales pitch comes from my own experiences. I tried Eve's trial three times. Third time lucky - or rather, there wasn't any better game I could play. Many Eve players at that time, like now, said that the fun starts when... [left t o be filled]. The game has not surprised me at any point. I feel the same as I was playing the trial. I was especially disapointed about zero-sec activities. Everyone seemed to talk about zero-sec like it is "the shit", but once I got there, my opinion didn't change. They only say Eve becomes fun <Insert time here> because thats their own experience. For me it was when I joined my first player corp two weeks into the game for another guy it could be when he finally grew some nuts and flew to low sec. To take what people say so literally and expect the same experience of other people in a game so vast doesnt seem a bit stupid to you? Fans talked about this game like it had it all, when it really didn't. "All this hassle for this?" was some of the first things that came to mind. Ofcourse I felt like a victim of false advertising. Fanbois are harmful. Sad thing is, there isn't really anything better out there. I've already played through the games I've liked and I am not one to play them again and again (and again...).
Eve does have it all, Take a look at the feature list and you could take any two mmos on the market put them together and they wouldnt give a player anywhere near the options of Eve online.
You may dislike the point to click nature of the game, the more war simulation aspect of it but that doesn't mean other people dont enjoy it.
I don't understand honestly. you say your playing Eve yet you hate the pvp, hate the combat, hate missions, hate mining.
The truth is, yes. A lot, if not all of Eve's typical daily activities are indeed 'dead boring' . - I think everyone knows this. On the flip side, nearly all of my best 'mmo' moments that I'll always remember have occured while playing Eve.
I think while things can get boring in Eve you always feel like your part of something greater than yourself. Mining for example is boring, but mining with others for several weeks then seing that going into ships being built or stations being errected.. it becomes so much more. Playing Eve is more about being part of something which is more than the sum of its components.
Now see, here's the problem, I don't find EVE's daily activities boring. No, its not because I'm a rabid fanboi, nor because I don't have a broad experience in MMO's, it because I really like doing them.
Perhaps its because after 2.75 years of playing I have lots of options available to me. Some days I run Level 4 missions, and I enjoy doing a few. Would love to get into some Level 5's some day so it remains on the to do list.
Sometimes I like to break out my covert ops or strategic cruiser and run through lowsec/0.0 gate camps and explore the darker side of the EVE universe.
Other times I run wormholes, or raid them depending on my mood. Some days I get great pleasure fitting new hulls and set-ups in the fitting tool or planning my skill traing out a few months in advance.
Currently I'm focusing on improving my PVP skills as I can now fly a vast plethora of combat ships in EVE, but very few of them with any real competency. (like maybe 5 or 6 out of about 40)
I suppose if I did any one of these activities (and I'll admit, in your first year you probably will spend a great deal more of your time in just a few of them) for too long I'd grow weary but EVE is a game where your experience actually improves the longer you play, which is pretty much unlike most other MMO's out there.
In my own case during the first year I ran missions for about 3-4 months, moved out to 0.0 and ratted drones to make money. I was in a Covert Ops corp at 5 months (flying Stealth Bombers) and we were engaged in some great campaigns include the wars to annihilation between Frege & Smash/RoadKill and the great northern campaign against BOB. My corp actually took possession of a station during that time and I had many memorable experiences. (except the POS busting, ugh, that was indeed boring) Eventually I returned to Empire to finish my first year to beef up my wallet and do something different.
I've fought in blobs, run in small gangs, battled merc corps in empire for months, and no, I don't find any of that boring.
Everyone's experience is different, and there are several posters who completely disagree with my views of the game.
Fine, to each their own, but I certainly enjoy the game and will continue to play for some time to come.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Eve is not world of warcraft, we dont all start raiding at the same level, get proffs at the same level, Run the same type of pvp content together.
These people take our experiences so literally its impossible for them to have a good time.
Eve online is what YOU make of it. Kyleran did those things because she/he went for it. I have had my experiences because I thought outside the box and took a few risks.
What people need to realize is that if you just sit around in Eve and go with the flow you will either be hitting a rock with a laser for years or running mission after mission.
Eve has many options for its players but you need to find them, do research, take a few risks. I'm sorry its not as easy as a pvp queue button.
If that's what your looking for I can easily direct you to games like that.
Fortunately for me this vid pretty much shows you don’t have a clue. (although there are several little clues in your post too). If you pay attention you will see that the FC is in a cruiser and (it’s hard to make out) there are at least a dozen figs. Not exactly faction goodness here, of course very few players risk that outside of PVE.
What you really see here is that in a complete and well designed game like EVE everyone plays and everyone contributes…….And everyone has fun.
A bit of fanatism, huh?
If you you can argue some of the points, please do so. Most of my experiences from Eve players is that they are, quite accurately, "fanatic fanbois". It would be a shame that my experiences from this community would be left like it is. Currently I don't hold much respect to the average Eve player.
EDIT: I forgot mention that the main tactic of Eve players in an argument is to discredit the opponent or insult him/her somehow. Not really argue any points. Examples can be found throughout these forums, but I'm sure this "strategy" is not only known to the Eve players.
At least the other guy said something and didn’t just blather on in a narcissistic ramble.
I do find it curious how several people have made posts saying it takes months to build up skills, and you can’t compete, and will never have any fun. Yet here we have a fairly long Video that clearly shows a massive fleet being FC’d by a very simple ship almost anyone can fly, and the fleet clearly has a large number of newer players, flying and fighting along side more experience players.
In response, you go on for several paragraphs personally attacking the people of this forum and giving us your views on gaming. Oh yeah! Thanks for sharing!
Eve's strongest aspects are decent graphics, strong and devout community, good market and good crafting that supports it. I havent seen a space game that even came near what eve offers so I think its more than "Decent". I agree on the community and Economy. "Crafting" isnt everything did deeper there are many facets of industry in Eve and to say "Crafting makes you look like you either never tried any industry stuff or know squat about eve. You put a fancy name on something rather simple. It is crafting. Call it industry - maybe it is deeper than in other games but it is just that. PvE is bad, everyone agrees, Subjective. Goto the mission runners forum on the eve site. those people live and die by that mechanic. They fully enjoy all aspects of Eves pve from missions top ratting to wormholes. I weep for those who enjoy those missions. Those really are a bore to me. When you look at players who look for questing- and mission-type of content, they play other games. That way you can say objectively that other games do this better. Wormholes and ratting is just brainless grind. Its relaxing to do something brainless from time to time. but most of the conflict comes from PvP. Many, myself included, consider PvP to be about PvP combat specifically. I don't consider all the non-combat aspects of Eve's PvP to be actual PvP. The combat in itself is very unsatisfying. It's ganking mostly, battles are short, and when you really look at it, it isn't all that deep either. If you consider pvp to only relate to combat you don't get the game. It's ok many people play and have no idea what their doing and leave. The combat is anything but unsatisfying to damn near everyone that plays. Most of the people that share your opinion of it just want Eve to be a twitchy game. I don't understand how you could say Eve isnt deep with all the ship/fitting combos, counters and all that. It seems just as or more so complicated and deep as any game I ever played. I don't need a twitchy game. You're pretty quick to make assumptions and throw that term around. Many, many players have found Eve's combat unsatisfying. I am talking about all players, not Eve players. I'm sorry, I didn't mean that Eve is shallow, it just isn't just like you said - not any deeper than the rest (unlike what others claim). Theorycrafting is fun, I've spent many hours dwiddling with EFT but it is not PvP for me. Grinding ISK for your next ship or looking for battle is not either. Other games just have better small scale combat. This is why Eve can be quite disappointing. EFT Warrioring is something you do for fun, there is a small select people that do nothing but play with EFT but I think those guys do it because their afraid of the actual ship loss. So you don't like making isk or hunting your prey? sorry we don't have insta pvp mini games in this game but I can direct you to one if you like? Oh and saying eves small scale pvp is bad is utter bullshit. People make a living in eve in small roaming gangs and solo. I am not afraid of ship loss. I don't get the gambler's high either. Ship loss means more grinding for me - a nuisance. I want to avoid that. "Hunting prey" is a nice name for ganking. I'm talking about looking for a fight. Getting in a fight. Not just any fight, something you strains your skills and which you can win. Popping newbs is boring, getting steamrolled by an uberblob is also boring. If I have to wait so long for action, why is it almost always not worth the wait? Waiting for 2 hours for a less than 2 minute battle is unsatisfying. I never said Eve's small scale PvP is bad - I said other games do it better. Some games rely wholly on small scale combat and it is the very fact that has made them famous. Eve is not famous for its solid small scale PvP. Its famous for its big battles. Players who specifically look for tactical small scale PvP do not try Eve first. Eve's weakest aspects are steep learning curve (doesn't mean its hard), bad UI/gameplay/controls, lag (especially in bigger fights) and it has many bugs and quirks which one has to learn to live with in order to enjoy this game. A learning curve is a negative? I see nothing wrong with the UI/Controls it fits the setting I think you expected eve to be a twitch game so now your on the forums crying. As for the Lag this was something that came up with the last expansion before that Eve ran flawlessly lets give the guys a chance to fix it aye? Yes, haven't you heard? High learning curve deters potential customers. HIgh learning curve is a bad thing because there is always ways to make learning easier. Eve's tutorials are far from the best tutorials I have seen. User interface is bad and some of the feedback is outright misleading (missile explosions even when the missile doesn't hit you, explosions on your ship even when no-one is shooting at you, target calling in the overview is bugged and after few calls the overview window is a mess, cooldown graphic while using modules is out of sync half the time etc. To name a few). You've come in terms with these flaws so they don't bother you. Some things can be done simply better. I might post a list of suggestions for improvements in the control scheme and gameplay in the near future. But I will not list them here. Then there are things that can't be helped. Some are just tradeoffs. You can't improve Eve's responsiveness, because it is relatively "light" right now. This makes large battles possible. Same reason why there isn't some fancy hit detection etc. Too much information, too much burden for the server. They are still cons of Eve even if they can't be helped. Lag is a flaw now - nothing else matters. Otherwise you can say something like: "Oh how this game X keeps crashing every 10 minutes but no worries, it will be better in 6 months." I've not been part of one of those huge fleet battles with over 500+ players in them. But stories that involves massacring the other fleet only because the winning fleet had "preloaded the grid first" doesn't speak highly on the actual PvP combat ability but rather the FC's ability to abuse the networking features/issues in the game. I'm sure there are more and finer, strong and weak aspects of Eve but those are the ones on top of my head. YOu can't think of any negatives because your eve knowledge only goes so far. you picked up some tid bits from negative posts here and have your extensive trial playtime. If you actually played the game your list of negatives would be much greater. As anyones would who actually plays more than a free trial. So you make the assumption that I'm a newbie? Quite common assumpion. Of couse I must be a newbie not to agree with you! /sarcasm What is the limit then? Would you put it just above my experience level if I disclosed the time I've spent in Eve? Would you really, really like me to write down every single flaw in the game, big or small? Are you so confident that this game hasn't any more? You also want to note out that I didn't write down all the good things in it aswell.
The sales pitch comes from my own experiences. I tried Eve's trial three times. Third time lucky - or rather, there wasn't any better game I could play. Many Eve players at that time, like now, said that the fun starts when... [left t o be filled]. The game has not surprised me at any point. I feel the same as I was playing the trial. I was especially disapointed about zero-sec activities. Everyone seemed to talk about zero-sec like it is "the shit", but once I got there, my opinion didn't change. They only say Eve becomes fun <Insert time here> because thats their own experience. For me it was when I joined my first player corp two weeks into the game for another guy it could be when he finally grew some nuts and flew to low sec. To take what people say so literally and expect the same experience of other people in a game so vast doesnt seem a bit stupid to you? But it was a quite large number of people (or a very loud minority, how can I tell?). No smoke without fire, is say, so I had to check what this was all about. Fans talked about this game like it had it all, when it really didn't. "All this hassle for this?" was some of the first things that came to mind. Ofcourse I felt like a victim of false advertising. Fanbois are harmful. Sad thing is, there isn't really anything better out there. I've already played through the games I've liked and I am not one to play them again and again (and again...).
Eve does have it all, Take a look at the feature list and you could take any two mmos on the market put them together and they wouldnt give a player anywhere near the options of Eve online.
You may dislike the point to click nature of the game, the more war simulation aspect of it but that doesn't mean other people dont enjoy it.
I don't understand honestly. you say your playing Eve yet you hate the pvp, hate the combat, hate missions, hate mining.
Why are you still here bitching?
No game has it all. There was a game that did fairly good on many accounts. That would be WoW. It is sort of a jack of all trades. But in each one thing it does good, there is some game that does it better. So some might say it is "good" in everything, but not the "best" in any one aspect. I read an article about this written by some game designer but I can't find it anymore. It was very good, I assure you.
I'm very sorry if you read to what I wrote that I hate those things. Obviously that was not my message. I only stated that some things are done better in other games, and Eve has ways to improve itself. I don't rate games by the size of their feature list. That is silly. It is how those features are implemented and how they work together. Then you might actually compare those solutions to those that are found in other games. And I am really talking about games here, not just MMOs.
I don't think Eve has reached the zenith of game development. Do you?
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been-Wayne Gretzky
Fortunately for me this vid pretty much shows you don’t have a clue. (although there are several little clues in your post too). If you pay attention you will see that the FC is in a cruiser and (it’s hard to make out) there are at least a dozen figs. Not exactly faction goodness here, of course very few players risk that outside of PVE.
What you really see here is that in a complete and well designed game like EVE everyone plays and everyone contributes…….And everyone has fun.
A bit of fanatism, huh?
If you you can argue some of the points, please do so. Most of my experiences from Eve players is that they are, quite accurately, "fanatic fanbois". It would be a shame that my experiences from this community would be left like it is. Currently I don't hold much respect to the average Eve player.
EDIT: I forgot mention that the main tactic of Eve players in an argument is to discredit the opponent or insult him/her somehow. Not really argue any points. Examples can be found throughout these forums, but I'm sure this "strategy" is not only known to the Eve players.
At least the other guy said something and didn’t just blather on in a narcissistic ramble.
I do find it curious how several people have made posts saying it takes months to build up skills, and you can’t compete, and will never have any fun. Yet here we have a fairly long Video that clearly shows a massive fleet being FC’d by a very simple ship almost anyone can fly, and the fleet clearly has a large number of newer players, flying and fighting along side more experience players.
In response, you go on for several paragraphs personally attacking the people of this forum and giving us your views on gaming. Oh yeah! Thanks for sharing!
So I'm a narcissist? I think you proved my last point.
You have to take into account that ofcourse that which I write is my own opinion. Nothing I write is "the truth". I am joined by many in the belief that you can't catch up in Eve. That which was said in another thread about this matter was quite accurate of what I think. Only thing I'd like to add to that is that I consider the opportunity to switch builds is an edge: If you are a new player, veteran players have the option to change to your counter-build.
We have had newer players flying in our gangs aswell with varying results. Sometimes they shoot our own. Sometimes they pod someone they shouldn't have and our alliance loses a blue standing on another alliance. Other times they are useless and fail in the simple tasks given to them. But if they hang in there, they will learn, and they will be positively donating to the effectiveness of our gangs.
Your whole argument relies on that one video alone. Some good fleet action that was. Quite possibly the best one you can find. What makes you think the FC flew a cruiser because the one who shot that video wasn't the FC. 32 is not massive. It is big. Not "massive". Someone might say it isn't even "big". But hey... enough discrediting you. It still had good action in it.
EDIT: Notice how the player who shot the video locks his/her targets by using the drop down menu? -Eve's tutorials should encourage using shortcuts because they make things easier, faster, ...better.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been-Wayne Gretzky
Sonoggi is dead on. You are looking at 4-6 months of training to be decent at a ship in PvP. While you can still PvP nicely in T1 hulls at the BC/BS level, you need expensive modules thatcant be insured, as well as rigs that together can cost more than the hull. I disagree with him in that you can catch up to a vet depending on the ship, but it takes time. Everything else though he is right on the money. Kyleran mentions sleepers, but you are going to need to sink serious time first to be able to actually tackle them as a corp. He mentions using t1 hulls, but he is talking factional warfare, which is never 1 on 1, and these days is unbalanced as hell since the caldari and amarr aren't putting up much of a fight. He misses entirely the point of small-gang warfare: it's that the big fleet ops aren't fun and have no strategy. What blobs do is remove any real sense to victory because the fight never is close. Nicoli is a little more balanced. Yes you can shift moneymaking styles, but it takes time to train them to do so efficiently. If you start out doing missions and decide to switch to mining, you need to train up mining specific skills to even approach your old income. Some ways to make money are better for solo players, some for group. There's less freedom in practice because most players tend to graviate to skills only effective in one school of moneymaking. Most PvP ops will take a long time though, unless you live right next door to targets. The sheer amount of time it takes to gather the fleet, and slowy move it gate after gate is surprisngly long, let alone how sparse targets may be. He also really doesn't get why balanced fights are fun, because even with using attrition or varied strategies, battles can be over in minutes, or seconds. There's no attrition when you call primary and 6 battleships nuke your cruiser. I'd also disagree with him about the rarity of high meta or t2 gear on ships: just browse killboards and you will see a lot of it. Effective in 2-3 months is pushing it, unless the new player religiously follows EVEMON skill plans and knows what he wants to do in the game already. As for waiting to have fun, missing the point. You simply wont have fun if all you can do is try and tackle in a frig, or last a few seconds as a dessy in a fight. To have fun you need to feel like your contribution matters, but the skill system works against it short term. Your best bet is just to be willing to learn, either solo in a corp, and be patient and realistic about the time you need to matter. EVE pve is boring as hell though. Muke is kind of eh. He is part of one of the largest alliances in the game: of course he will get money easily. He also doesn't get that it is possible not to raid in PvE games, but if you don't PvP in EVE there is nothing to do. Tackling is not that fun, really. I've done it, and all you dont really learn that much about PvP from it. Your purpose is just to hold a target and hope their fc doesnt call you primary. He also misses the thing about standards-people need to feel they can contribute before they can have fun, and people who dont find tackling fun often feel they need months of training time to at least contribute. Sonoggi has really been more like my experience in game.
Wow what a load! I would counter these one by one but the quality of your post really doesn't warrant it.
Fortunately for me this vid pretty much shows you don’t have a clue. (although there are several little clues in your post too). If you pay attention you will see that the FC is in a cruiser and (it’s hard to make out) there are at least a dozen figs. Not exactly faction goodness here, of course very few players risk that outside of PVE.
What you really see here is that in a complete and well designed game like EVE everyone plays and everyone contributes…….And everyone has fun.
Whats really funny is that if you look close you can see the FC isn't even using T2 drones and he is leading the entire fleet LOL
Guess you guy's don't know much about EVE : o
I know enough to identify that the video is of Red Vs Blue, and I might have very well been in that fight. Red Vs Blue is NOTHING like the typical EVE PvP experience, and their roams are only effectual in the sense that they bring a ton of ships and measure success by ISK destroyed. In fact, the majority of EVE players don't consider RvB anything like real PvP, and some don't even think it's good for training due to the restrictions they place on the experience.
The FC is Major Trant it sounds like. I didn't watch the whole clip. I've flown with RvB and I tell you, a LOT of RvB vets used T2 and named modules. I fought them in a t1 ship with t1 mods, and many times I couldn't even scratch them with an equivalent ship. RvB guys also have an impressive variety of t2 ships that they bring out when third party wardecced or station camped, and they don't mind at all piling 30 people on 1 or 2 enemies outside of the federation.
For those that don't know, RvB are two corporations in perpetual wardec in order for people to have cheap, always-on PvP. They don't allow podding or ECM jamming, strive to balance engagements between equal fleets.
Most EVE pvp is nothing like that, and I wonder if it's you that doesn't know the game.
Malcanis, I'm not denying that. The point in general though is to use it as an example of how cheap t1 is pvp viable isn't good. RvB are great guys, and I plan on flying with them again sometime. But RvB isn't an example. We did those ops knowing we'd pretty much all get wiped out but didn't care much. If anyone sent a organized force, we'd get owned.
Originally posted by flydowntome Malcanis, I'm not denying that. The point in general though is to use it as an example of how cheap t1 is pvp viable isn't good. RvB are great guys, and I plan on flying with them again sometime. But RvB isn't an example. We did those ops knowing we'd pretty much all get wiped out but didn't care much. If anyone sent a organized force, we'd get owned.
Can you elaborate on how 'cheap T1 ship PVP' isn't viable?
Malcanis, I'm not denying that. The point in general though is to use it as an example of how cheap t1 is pvp viable isn't good. RvB are great guys, and I plan on flying with them again sometime. But RvB isn't an example. We did those ops knowing we'd pretty much all get wiped out but didn't care much. If anyone sent a organized force, we'd get owned.
Im sorry, but EVE is not about PVP. EVE is about the sand that's in the box. It is not a linear game that you have to follow a set path to a set end.
The only thing wrong with that video was the fit on the Thorax. From high sec, to low sec, to most null sec pets, nobody cares about some over riding goal or plan. People just want to blow stuff up as a group and develop group tactics, and this is the majority of EVE's PVP'ers. You can take that same ship (with a different set up), and use the same tactics that pilot was using anywhere in the game.
PVP in EVE is cheap, fun and accesible for anyone in the game. This is not the problem. What you fail to understand is that problem is most people choose not to do it. Not because of the cost or the grind, but because of the simple fear of engaging another person. Once a person gets over that there are plent of options, there all apart of the sand and they all count.
Malcanis, I'm not denying that. The point in general though is to use it as an example of how cheap t1 is pvp viable isn't good. RvB are great guys, and I plan on flying with them again sometime. But RvB isn't an example. We did those ops knowing we'd pretty much all get wiped out but didn't care much. If anyone sent a organized force, we'd get owned.
Cheap T1 ships are viable if they're in an organised force. The key is the organisation, not the expense. One of the great powers of cheap T1 ships is that if they get wiped out, it doesn't matter.
My time in EVE has shown one thing above all others: EVE will give you the experience that you expect from it. If you approach it as a level based massively sole grinder, you will get a level based massively solo grind experience. All that stuff we've been talking about in this thread about how cheap T1 ships can be effective and such? That stuff doesn't apply to you, because you dont play the kind of EVE that would make that work. So I will modify the original statement: You dont have to be disadvantaged by low SP. You dont have to wait two years to be "competitive". You dont have to spend hours grinding to pay for every ship loss. You dont have to stay in hi-sec until you can fly a Command Ship. But some people will, because that's what they expect. That's what they think MMOs are all about. And because of that, that's what EVE will be for them.
That youtube video demonstrates nothing more than that there are people who dont have to be constrained in those ways. If you're not that type of person, then the video is meaningless.
You could take footage from the Alliance Tournaments and state that "this is PvP in Eve". You aren't lying but you aren't telling the whole truth either. Many competitive PvPers would be disappointed once they realized the truth. Even if Eve has the Alliance Tournament it still cannot be called a competitive PvP game. Other games have specialized in this, and are better at it.
You are misleading people.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been-Wayne Gretzky
Ever since the news of Dust 541 (or was it 514? 415? Bahhh....), I really wanted to give it a try. Unfortunately, there are some things said about the game that has prevented me from playing it sooner, so I hope you guys can clear some things up. 1) "If you don't know anyone who plays this game, you're going to get raped." 2) "All you ever do in this game is mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, and mine even more ores from asterioids." 3) "The game is old, so everyone in there is already l33t and you'll feel out of place." (Kind of pertains to no. 1) 4) "It's a true sandbox game, so you can permanently too everything and all the months/years you put into it can be for nothing." Just trying to get a better picture of the game. I did try the 14-day free trial, but something tells me, I barley even scatched the surface.
Just buy a month, it's only 20$ for the first one.
Join a corp, Eve Online has by far the best community of any MMO out there right now, virtually any corp you join will be willing you help you.
You might even find a sort of "master" (for you star wars nerds) that will help you a ton.
The fact that it is so old and there ARE a lot of l33t players is good for you.
I remember the first time I joined a corp, some middle eastern guy just up and gave me 20 million isk because "he liked my jokes".
Unfortunately it does take a lot of time and effort to get ahead in the game, time that I don't have so I had to force myself to quit or I'd have no life lol.
But I respect CCP more than any company as a group of people unwilling to compromise their product for money's sake alone. They continue to do everything in their power to give you the greatest MMO experience possible, and this is also why the community is so nice.
So, in closing, if you play Eve; join a corp and ask for help. It's a complicated game but people WILL help you.
Before you know it you'll be fighting interstellar wars that dictate the path of development for New Eden.
Playing: *sigh* back to WoW -------- Waiting for: SW:TOR, APB, WoD --------- Played and loved: Eve and WoW -------- Played and hated: WoW:WotLK, Warhammer, every single F2P
No game has it all. There was a game that did fairly good on many accounts. That would be WoW. It is sort of a jack of all trades. But in each one thing it does good, there is some game that does it better. So some might say it is "good" in everything, but not the "best" in any one aspect. I read an article about this written by some game designer but I can't find it anymore. It was very good, I assure you.
When I say it has it all I mean it gives players a enormous amount of options. Not that it fills every ones game play needs. Obviously if your a hardcore raider, want a more twitchy combat experience or Want an arena/battlegrounds type pvp system it wont deliver. Thats not a bad thing, CCP decided to go a certain way and i'm glad they've chosen not to appeal to everyone. I'm very sorry if you read to what I wrote that I hate those things. Obviously that was not my message. I only stated that some things are done better in other games, and Eve has ways to improve itself. I don't rate games by the size of their feature list. That is silly. It is how those features are implemented and how they work together. Everything Eve offers players is well done. Missions are designed a certain way so people could easily farm them for isk for other areas of the game. Other features like Exploration, wormholes, FW, Sov, Mining, facets of industry are all really well done. The combat even though you may not enjoy it for what it is is extremely polished and fun for those of us who like the way the game is set up. I wouldn't even comment on its feature set if 100% of it wasnt fucking epic. Then you might actually compare those solutions to those that are found in other games. And I am really talking about games here, not just MMOs. You can't compare mmos to other types of genres because this is the bottom of the barrel of gaming my friend the welfare of the industry. We accept low quality games at a cheap price. Even the ten ton gorilla can't be compared with sp games because it would be laughed out of the discussion. I don't think Eve has reached the zenith of game development. Do you? Not at all but its the closest mmo to reaching that point in my opinion.
You know I wouldnt have pegged you as a hater if you weren't so negative. you seem to have massive issues with the game. And you bring your negativity to this forum over and over.
You bring up no valid points yet constantly bash and call people fanboys.
You start talking game mechanics and maybe you will be better received.
You know I wouldnt have pegged you as a hater if you weren't so negative. you seem to have massive issues with the game. And you bring your negativity to this forum over and over.
You bring up no valid points yet constantly bash and call people fanboys.
You start talking game mechanics and maybe you will be better received.
I'm no "hater" - I play the freakin' game right now! My negativity is to balance the over-positive. All this hippie business and sugar-coating is misleading new players like I was misled. Maybe I am drawn more to the negative specifically because of these overly positive posts that I find irritating. When I say something is bad, then what I'm really saying is that some other game does this better or it has a lot of room to improve.
What makes my points invalid? What makes your opinions right and my opinions wrong? To me, everyones opinion is right and justified and everyones points are valid. You can't just choose what you agree with or what you like. It is player feedback.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been-Wayne Gretzky
You know I wouldnt have pegged you as a hater if you weren't so negative. you seem to have massive issues with the game. And you bring your negativity to this forum over and over.
You bring up no valid points yet constantly bash and call people fanboys.
You start talking game mechanics and maybe you will be better received.
I'm no "hater" - I play the freakin' game right now! My negativity is to balance the over-positive. All this hippie business and sugar-coating is misleading new players like I was misled. Maybe I am drawn more to the negative specifically because of these overly positive posts that I find irritating. When I say something is bad, then what I'm really saying is that some other game does this better or it has a lot of room to improve.
What makes my points invalid? What makes your opinions right and my opinions wrong? To me, everyones opinion is right and justified and everyones points are valid. You can't just choose what you agree with or what you like. It is player feedback.
Like I said post something worth discussing instead of straight up bashing. You never focus on one thing how could anyone take what you post seriously?
Now you say your only posting negativity for balance on the forums? That doesn't sound crazy to you?
Basically saying your trolling to balance what you believe to be blind fanboism.
Comments
The truth is, yes. A lot, if not all of Eve's typical daily activities are indeed 'dead boring' . - I think everyone knows this.
On the flip side, nearly all of my best 'mmo' moments that I'll always remember have occured while playing Eve.
I think while things can get boring in Eve you always feel like your part of something greater than yourself. Mining for example is boring, but mining with others for several weeks then seing that going into ships being built or stations being errected.. it becomes so much more.
Playing Eve is more about being part of something which is more than the sum of its components.
I am a bit surprised you ask such question since the answer is the same as for question Why do these people furiously troll even EVEs strongest aspects?
Considering full text of your post and other statements of yours being type of:
..it is you who should know the answer the best.
Just to be fair, you could say the same of most games in these forums.
To your other points, I would consider myself a fan of EvE. I've played a good number of games myself over the past decade so I don't think my being a fan is based on ignorance/inexperience. I can understand other people not enjoying the game though and I imagine that probably shows itself in the trial conversion rate. With that in mind, I enjoy the game for much of what sadeyx says. This game, more then most other MMOs I've played, allows you to be a part of something bigger if you so choose. There are other games that offer variations on that experience, but I like the way EvE does it so far. To me, this is part of what an MMO is about versus a coop game.
Anyhow, got off to rambling, I really just wanted to address your edited point as I do not see that as something unique, or even overly prevalent (in my experience), to the EvE community.
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers.
Do something wrong, no one forgets"
-from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
You've got to remember that 'Fun' comes to people in many different ways.
I had Fun on eve since the first day I got it but didnt actually join a corp or do any pvp for 6 months.
Now, I found it fun to learn Eve, to figure it out, how to fly how to fit ships, how to do missions, all the different gun types, systems, how the maths works, how the skills work, the market, exploration... I loved it That obviously isnt some peoples idea of fun! People play a game and expect fun to come in the form of shooting things and watching things blow up.
yep this is a brainiac game .if you like diablo style,then eve might not be for you
No they don't.
You speak for yourself only.
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
I am a bit surprised you ask such question since the answer is the same as for question Why do these people furiously troll even EVEs strongest aspects?
Considering full text of your post and other statements of yours being type of:
..it is you who should know the answer the best.
Eve's strongest aspects are decent graphics, strong and devout community, good market and good crafting that supports it. PvE is bad, everyone agrees, but most of the conflict comes from PvP. Many, myself included, consider PvP to be about PvP combat specifically. I don't consider all the non-combat aspects of Eve's PvP to be actual PvP. The combat in itself is very unsatisfying. It's ganking mostly, battles are short, and when you really look at it, it isn't all that deep either.
Theorycrafting is fun, I've spent many hours dwiddling with EFT but it is not PvP for me. Grinding ISK for your next ship or looking for battle is not either. Other games just have better small scale combat. This is why Eve can be quite disappointing.
Eve's weakest aspects are steep learning curve (doesn't mean its hard), bad UI/gameplay/controls, lag (especially in bigger fights) and it has many bugs and quirks which one has to learn to live with in order to enjoy this game.
I'm sure there are more and finer, strong and weak aspects of Eve but those are the ones on top of my head.
The sales pitch comes from my own experiences. I tried Eve's trial three times. Third time lucky - or rather, there wasn't any better game I could play. Many Eve players at that time, like now, said that the fun starts when... [left t o be filled]. The game has not surprised me at any point. I feel the same as I was playing the trial. I was especially disapointed about zero-sec activities. Everyone seemed to talk about zero-sec like it is "the shit", but once I got there, my opinion didn't change.
Fans talked about this game like it had it all, when it really didn't. "All this hassle for this?" was some of the first things that came to mind. Ofcourse I felt like a victim of false advertising. Fanbois are harmful. Sad thing is, there isn't really anything better out there. I've already played through the games I've liked and I am not one to play them again and again (and again...).
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
Eve does have it all, Take a look at the feature list and you could take any two mmos on the market put them together and they wouldnt give a player anywhere near the options of Eve online.
You may dislike the point to click nature of the game, the more war simulation aspect of it but that doesn't mean other people dont enjoy it.
I don't understand honestly. you say your playing Eve yet you hate the pvp, hate the combat, hate missions, hate mining.
Why are you still here bitching?
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
Now see, here's the problem, I don't find EVE's daily activities boring. No, its not because I'm a rabid fanboi, nor because I don't have a broad experience in MMO's, it because I really like doing them.
Perhaps its because after 2.75 years of playing I have lots of options available to me. Some days I run Level 4 missions, and I enjoy doing a few. Would love to get into some Level 5's some day so it remains on the to do list.
Sometimes I like to break out my covert ops or strategic cruiser and run through lowsec/0.0 gate camps and explore the darker side of the EVE universe.
Other times I run wormholes, or raid them depending on my mood. Some days I get great pleasure fitting new hulls and set-ups in the fitting tool or planning my skill traing out a few months in advance.
Currently I'm focusing on improving my PVP skills as I can now fly a vast plethora of combat ships in EVE, but very few of them with any real competency. (like maybe 5 or 6 out of about 40)
I suppose if I did any one of these activities (and I'll admit, in your first year you probably will spend a great deal more of your time in just a few of them) for too long I'd grow weary but EVE is a game where your experience actually improves the longer you play, which is pretty much unlike most other MMO's out there.
In my own case during the first year I ran missions for about 3-4 months, moved out to 0.0 and ratted drones to make money. I was in a Covert Ops corp at 5 months (flying Stealth Bombers) and we were engaged in some great campaigns include the wars to annihilation between Frege & Smash/RoadKill and the great northern campaign against BOB. My corp actually took possession of a station during that time and I had many memorable experiences. (except the POS busting, ugh, that was indeed boring) Eventually I returned to Empire to finish my first year to beef up my wallet and do something different.
I've fought in blobs, run in small gangs, battled merc corps in empire for months, and no, I don't find any of that boring.
Everyone's experience is different, and there are several posters who completely disagree with my views of the game.
Fine, to each their own, but I certainly enjoy the game and will continue to play for some time to come.
Disclaimer: Your individual experience may vary.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
And this is what these people don't understand.
Eve is not world of warcraft, we dont all start raiding at the same level, get proffs at the same level, Run the same type of pvp content together.
These people take our experiences so literally its impossible for them to have a good time.
Eve online is what YOU make of it. Kyleran did those things because she/he went for it. I have had my experiences because I thought outside the box and took a few risks.
What people need to realize is that if you just sit around in Eve and go with the flow you will either be hitting a rock with a laser for years or running mission after mission.
Eve has many options for its players but you need to find them, do research, take a few risks. I'm sorry its not as easy as a pvp queue button.
If that's what your looking for I can easily direct you to games like that.
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
A bit of fanatism, huh?
If you you can argue some of the points, please do so. Most of my experiences from Eve players is that they are, quite accurately, "fanatic fanbois". It would be a shame that my experiences from this community would be left like it is. Currently I don't hold much respect to the average Eve player.
EDIT: I forgot mention that the main tactic of Eve players in an argument is to discredit the opponent or insult him/her somehow. Not really argue any points. Examples can be found throughout these forums, but I'm sure this "strategy" is not only known to the Eve players.
At least the other guy said something and didn’t just blather on in a narcissistic ramble.
I do find it curious how several people have made posts saying it takes months to build up skills, and you can’t compete, and will never have any fun. Yet here we have a fairly long Video that clearly shows a massive fleet being FC’d by a very simple ship almost anyone can fly, and the fleet clearly has a large number of newer players, flying and fighting along side more experience players.
In response, you go on for several paragraphs personally attacking the people of this forum and giving us your views on gaming. Oh yeah! Thanks for sharing!
Eve does have it all, Take a look at the feature list and you could take any two mmos on the market put them together and they wouldnt give a player anywhere near the options of Eve online.
You may dislike the point to click nature of the game, the more war simulation aspect of it but that doesn't mean other people dont enjoy it.
I don't understand honestly. you say your playing Eve yet you hate the pvp, hate the combat, hate missions, hate mining.
Why are you still here bitching?
No game has it all. There was a game that did fairly good on many accounts. That would be WoW. It is sort of a jack of all trades. But in each one thing it does good, there is some game that does it better. So some might say it is "good" in everything, but not the "best" in any one aspect. I read an article about this written by some game designer but I can't find it anymore. It was very good, I assure you.
I'm very sorry if you read to what I wrote that I hate those things. Obviously that was not my message. I only stated that some things are done better in other games, and Eve has ways to improve itself. I don't rate games by the size of their feature list. That is silly. It is how those features are implemented and how they work together. Then you might actually compare those solutions to those that are found in other games. And I am really talking about games here, not just MMOs.
I don't think Eve has reached the zenith of game development. Do you?
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
A bit of fanatism, huh?
If you you can argue some of the points, please do so. Most of my experiences from Eve players is that they are, quite accurately, "fanatic fanbois". It would be a shame that my experiences from this community would be left like it is. Currently I don't hold much respect to the average Eve player.
EDIT: I forgot mention that the main tactic of Eve players in an argument is to discredit the opponent or insult him/her somehow. Not really argue any points. Examples can be found throughout these forums, but I'm sure this "strategy" is not only known to the Eve players.
At least the other guy said something and didn’t just blather on in a narcissistic ramble.
I do find it curious how several people have made posts saying it takes months to build up skills, and you can’t compete, and will never have any fun. Yet here we have a fairly long Video that clearly shows a massive fleet being FC’d by a very simple ship almost anyone can fly, and the fleet clearly has a large number of newer players, flying and fighting along side more experience players.
In response, you go on for several paragraphs personally attacking the people of this forum and giving us your views on gaming. Oh yeah! Thanks for sharing!
So I'm a narcissist? I think you proved my last point.
You have to take into account that ofcourse that which I write is my own opinion. Nothing I write is "the truth". I am joined by many in the belief that you can't catch up in Eve. That which was said in another thread about this matter was quite accurate of what I think. Only thing I'd like to add to that is that I consider the opportunity to switch builds is an edge: If you are a new player, veteran players have the option to change to your counter-build.
We have had newer players flying in our gangs aswell with varying results. Sometimes they shoot our own. Sometimes they pod someone they shouldn't have and our alliance loses a blue standing on another alliance. Other times they are useless and fail in the simple tasks given to them. But if they hang in there, they will learn, and they will be positively donating to the effectiveness of our gangs.
Your whole argument relies on that one video alone. Some good fleet action that was. Quite possibly the best one you can find. What makes you think the FC flew a cruiser because the one who shot that video wasn't the FC. 32 is not massive. It is big. Not "massive". Someone might say it isn't even "big". But hey... enough discrediting you. It still had good action in it.
EDIT: Notice how the player who shot the video locks his/her targets by using the drop down menu? -Eve's tutorials should encourage using shortcuts because they make things easier, faster, ...better.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
Wow what a load! I would counter these one by one but the quality of your post really doesn't warrant it.
8 min of EVE combat
Fortunately for me this vid pretty much shows you don’t have a clue. (although there are several little clues in your post too). If you pay attention you will see that the FC is in a cruiser and (it’s hard to make out) there are at least a dozen figs. Not exactly faction goodness here, of course very few players risk that outside of PVE.
What you really see here is that in a complete and well designed game like EVE everyone plays and everyone contributes…….And everyone has fun.
Whats really funny is that if you look close you can see the FC isn't even using T2 drones and he is leading the entire fleet LOL
Guess you guy's don't know much about EVE : o
I know enough to identify that the video is of Red Vs Blue, and I might have very well been in that fight. Red Vs Blue is NOTHING like the typical EVE PvP experience, and their roams are only effectual in the sense that they bring a ton of ships and measure success by ISK destroyed. In fact, the majority of EVE players don't consider RvB anything like real PvP, and some don't even think it's good for training due to the restrictions they place on the experience.
The FC is Major Trant it sounds like. I didn't watch the whole clip. I've flown with RvB and I tell you, a LOT of RvB vets used T2 and named modules. I fought them in a t1 ship with t1 mods, and many times I couldn't even scratch them with an equivalent ship. RvB guys also have an impressive variety of t2 ships that they bring out when third party wardecced or station camped, and they don't mind at all piling 30 people on 1 or 2 enemies outside of the federation.
For those that don't know, RvB are two corporations in perpetual wardec in order for people to have cheap, always-on PvP. They don't allow podding or ECM jamming, strive to balance engagements between equal fleets.
Most EVE pvp is nothing like that, and I wonder if it's you that doesn't know the game.
Still, Red vs Blue serves a number of very valuable functions in the game. Not the least of which is providing cheap, accessible PvP for new players.
Give me liberty or give me lasers
And...?
The point is, it is still EVE and PVP you can do.
Malcanis, I'm not denying that. The point in general though is to use it as an example of how cheap t1 is pvp viable isn't good. RvB are great guys, and I plan on flying with them again sometime. But RvB isn't an example. We did those ops knowing we'd pretty much all get wiped out but didn't care much. If anyone sent a organized force, we'd get owned.
Can you elaborate on how 'cheap T1 ship PVP' isn't viable?
Im sorry, but EVE is not about PVP. EVE is about the sand that's in the box. It is not a linear game that you have to follow a set path to a set end.
The only thing wrong with that video was the fit on the Thorax. From high sec, to low sec, to most null sec pets, nobody cares about some over riding goal or plan. People just want to blow stuff up as a group and develop group tactics, and this is the majority of EVE's PVP'ers. You can take that same ship (with a different set up), and use the same tactics that pilot was using anywhere in the game.
PVP in EVE is cheap, fun and accesible for anyone in the game. This is not the problem. What you fail to understand is that problem is most people choose not to do it. Not because of the cost or the grind, but because of the simple fear of engaging another person. Once a person gets over that there are plent of options, there all apart of the sand and they all count.
Cheap T1 ships are viable if they're in an organised force. The key is the organisation, not the expense. One of the great powers of cheap T1 ships is that if they get wiped out, it doesn't matter.
My time in EVE has shown one thing above all others: EVE will give you the experience that you expect from it. If you approach it as a level based massively sole grinder, you will get a level based massively solo grind experience. All that stuff we've been talking about in this thread about how cheap T1 ships can be effective and such? That stuff doesn't apply to you, because you dont play the kind of EVE that would make that work. So I will modify the original statement: You dont have to be disadvantaged by low SP. You dont have to wait two years to be "competitive". You dont have to spend hours grinding to pay for every ship loss. You dont have to stay in hi-sec until you can fly a Command Ship. But some people will, because that's what they expect. That's what they think MMOs are all about. And because of that, that's what EVE will be for them.
That youtube video demonstrates nothing more than that there are people who dont have to be constrained in those ways. If you're not that type of person, then the video is meaningless.
Give me liberty or give me lasers
And...?
The point is, it is still EVE and PVP you can do.
Pedantry. Most of Eve's PvP is nothing like that.
You could take footage from the Alliance Tournaments and state that "this is PvP in Eve". You aren't lying but you aren't telling the whole truth either. Many competitive PvPers would be disappointed once they realized the truth. Even if Eve has the Alliance Tournament it still cannot be called a competitive PvP game. Other games have specialized in this, and are better at it.
You are misleading people.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
Just buy a month, it's only 20$ for the first one.
Join a corp, Eve Online has by far the best community of any MMO out there right now, virtually any corp you join will be willing you help you.
You might even find a sort of "master" (for you star wars nerds) that will help you a ton.
The fact that it is so old and there ARE a lot of l33t players is good for you.
I remember the first time I joined a corp, some middle eastern guy just up and gave me 20 million isk because "he liked my jokes".
Unfortunately it does take a lot of time and effort to get ahead in the game, time that I don't have so I had to force myself to quit or I'd have no life lol.
But I respect CCP more than any company as a group of people unwilling to compromise their product for money's sake alone. They continue to do everything in their power to give you the greatest MMO experience possible, and this is also why the community is so nice.
So, in closing, if you play Eve; join a corp and ask for help. It's a complicated game but people WILL help you.
Before you know it you'll be fighting interstellar wars that dictate the path of development for New Eden.
Playing: *sigh* back to WoW
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Waiting for: SW:TOR, APB, WoD
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Played and loved: Eve and WoW
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Played and hated: WoW:WotLK, Warhammer, every single F2P
You know I wouldnt have pegged you as a hater if you weren't so negative. you seem to have massive issues with the game. And you bring your negativity to this forum over and over.
You bring up no valid points yet constantly bash and call people fanboys.
You start talking game mechanics and maybe you will be better received.
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
You know I wouldnt have pegged you as a hater if you weren't so negative. you seem to have massive issues with the game. And you bring your negativity to this forum over and over.
You bring up no valid points yet constantly bash and call people fanboys.
You start talking game mechanics and maybe you will be better received.
I'm no "hater" - I play the freakin' game right now! My negativity is to balance the over-positive. All this hippie business and sugar-coating is misleading new players like I was misled. Maybe I am drawn more to the negative specifically because of these overly positive posts that I find irritating. When I say something is bad, then what I'm really saying is that some other game does this better or it has a lot of room to improve.
What makes my points invalid? What makes your opinions right and my opinions wrong? To me, everyones opinion is right and justified and everyones points are valid. You can't just choose what you agree with or what you like. It is player feedback.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
You know I wouldnt have pegged you as a hater if you weren't so negative. you seem to have massive issues with the game. And you bring your negativity to this forum over and over.
You bring up no valid points yet constantly bash and call people fanboys.
You start talking game mechanics and maybe you will be better received.
I'm no "hater" - I play the freakin' game right now! My negativity is to balance the over-positive. All this hippie business and sugar-coating is misleading new players like I was misled. Maybe I am drawn more to the negative specifically because of these overly positive posts that I find irritating. When I say something is bad, then what I'm really saying is that some other game does this better or it has a lot of room to improve.
What makes my points invalid? What makes your opinions right and my opinions wrong? To me, everyones opinion is right and justified and everyones points are valid. You can't just choose what you agree with or what you like. It is player feedback.
Like I said post something worth discussing instead of straight up bashing. You never focus on one thing how could anyone take what you post seriously?
Now you say your only posting negativity for balance on the forums? That doesn't sound crazy to you?
Basically saying your trolling to balance what you believe to be blind fanboism.
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP