I think the main reason people think there is a "horrendous grind" in Darkfall is because there's no quests, but if you think about it, quests in other games almost always consist of "go kill 20 boars" or something similar. In Darkfall you don't get a serious of quests to kill 100 things, you just go kill 100 things. "Quests" are just disguises for the grind in MMORPGs (usually, although some games have some pretty awesome quests with good story writing like the epic quests in LOTRO- along with a thousand "kill 20 boars" quests), and based on this thread, they seem to be pretty effective disguises. Make no mistake, though, there's a grind in every MMORPG, and it's usually no less than Darkfall.
You are pretty much right. If a game isnt PvP based then it really comes down to how well the developers can disguise the grind. In darkfall there is really no attempt to disguise it at all you pretty much just have to kill thousands of mobs raw, while other games disguise the grind within tons of quests and storyline. This magnifies the difficulty many times even though the amount of time it takes to kill your 10k or 15k mobs or whatever is about the same it takes to hit cap level in other games. The darkfall grindstone is very rough and uneven. When you smash your forehead against it it hurts a lot more than a smooth, even grindstone.
There are quests in darkfall but really no storyline and most quests are "kill at least 10 xxx" that you repeat 20 times before finding a new one. This doesnt help disguise the grind at all, in fact it might even make the huge grind that much more apparent for someone.
I'd rather kill X amount of mobs because I chose to, than to have soome dumb-ass NPC tell me to. Thanks anyway.
I think the main reason people think there is a "horrendous grind" in Darkfall is because there's no quests, but if you think about it, quests in other games almost always consist of "go kill 20 boars" or something similar. In Darkfall you don't get a serious of quests to kill 100 things, you just go kill 100 things. "Quests" are just disguises for the grind in MMORPGs (usually, although some games have some pretty awesome quests with good story writing like the epic quests in LOTRO- along with a thousand "kill 20 boars" quests), and based on this thread, they seem to be pretty effective disguises. Make no mistake, though, there's a grind in every MMORPG, and it's usually no less than Darkfall.
You are pretty much right. If a game isnt PvP based then it really comes down to how well the developers can disguise the grind. In darkfall there is really no attempt to disguise it at all you pretty much just have to kill thousands of mobs raw, while other games disguise the grind within tons of quests and storyline. This magnifies the difficulty many times even though the amount of time it takes to kill your 10k or 15k mobs or whatever is about the same it takes to hit cap level in other games. The darkfall grindstone is very rough and uneven. When you smash your forehead against it it hurts a lot more than a smooth, even grindstone.
There are quests in darkfall but really no storyline and most quests are "kill at least 10 xxx" that you repeat 20 times before finding a new one. This doesnt help disguise the grind at all, in fact it might even make the huge grind that much more apparent for someone.
Allright, I'll bite, once. You actually have to respond if you want me to bite again though.
1. If the game isn't PVP based then how come I lose my gear once a day to gankers?
2. What PVP-based MMORPG that is currently healthy are you comparing Darkfall to? You mentioned DAOC in another thread, but that game isn't healthy. You mentioned Warhammer, but almost all WAR's pvp takes place in cordoned off scenarios, and the newbies are seperated by vets by tiers. Newbies would still get owned by vets if they weren't placed in tier/playpens. If Darkfall used the same tier system, then people could PVP everyone around them, just like in Warhammer. It would suck though, just like Warhammer sucks. Actually, scratch that- you can only kill people of the opposing faction in Warhammer, just like most PVP MMORPGS (except Darkfall).
So what other "PVP-based" MMORPG are you talking about that doesn't have a grind? Does one exist? Since you're saying that Darkfall isn't a pvp-based MMORPG because it has a grind, surely there must be one that exists that doesn't have a grind. Otherwise, and this I would agree with, Darkfall is the most PVP-based MMORPG on the market right now.
my bad. however, did you really quit becuase of the grind or becuase you cant kill other players without grinding. there is a big difference. the later supports what I am saying. People loss a fight and they feel they must win one so the grind to get 'compettive'
I have had an active subscription since February 25th, 2009, A.K.A. EU-1 launch. I love this game, don't think for a second that just because I think the gap between new players and veterans is too high and the grind to get competitive is too long that I don't love Darkfall. I plan on staying subscribed until the servers shut down, all I'm trying to do is get the population higher.
now, having said that what is 'non-linear stat benefit gain' i havent been to the offical forums in awhile i have no idea what that would look like that would not turn the game into a fantasy based version of halo
I'll provide the link to what I'm talking about below and also a description of how I would want it to work which I posted earlier in this thread but I'll re-post for simplicity. Let me know your opinion.
EDIT: I will say this, I do agree that DF has a grind. That said, its a small pain point compared to what almost all other MMO's have in terms of overall game play. I give DF a lot of slack becuase the positives in this game are very huge compared to its negitives.
Here is the link to non-linear stat benefit gain, the bottom graph represents the concept of what I'm supporting. I disagree with his numbers, but I strongly agree with the concept behind the graph. It can be found here
The following is an explanation of how I would want this system implemented. I use HP as an example:
Let's say, for arguments sake, that from the moment you start your character in Darkfall you can gain a total of 250 hit points (HP). With the current system, you'd gain that at a linear rate as your stats progress, like what is shown in the first graph.
I'm arguing for the following. Why not have it so that, by playing casually (~15 hours a week) you would get 150-175 of the 250 total hit points within 4 months and the last 75-100 hit points over the course of a year afterward? Trust me, 75-100 hit points is a good 2-3 hits in a PvP battle, and that is CERTAINLY enough to change the outcome of a battle in Darkfall.
So the new player gets a decent chunk of HP after 4 months (~240 hours of playing) but has another year to get the last ~100 HP. To me, that 100 HP is certainly something to work towards (i.e. your carrot on a stick), and DEFINITELY would give an advantage to the veterans that have worked hard for it.
I think the main reason people think there is a "horrendous grind" in Darkfall is because there's no quests, but if you think about it, quests in other games almost always consist of "go kill 20 boars" or something similar. In Darkfall you don't get a serious of quests to kill 100 things, you just go kill 100 things. "Quests" are just disguises for the grind in MMORPGs (usually, although some games have some pretty awesome quests with good story writing like the epic quests in LOTRO- along with a thousand "kill 20 boars" quests), and based on this thread, they seem to be pretty effective disguises. Make no mistake, though, there's a grind in every MMORPG, and it's usually no less than Darkfall.
You are pretty much right. If a game isnt PvP based then it really comes down to how well the developers can disguise the grind. In darkfall there is really no attempt to disguise it at all you pretty much just have to kill thousands of mobs raw, while other games disguise the grind within tons of quests and storyline. This magnifies the difficulty many times even though the amount of time it takes to kill your 10k or 15k mobs or whatever is about the same it takes to hit cap level in other games. The darkfall grindstone is very rough and uneven. When you smash your forehead against it it hurts a lot more than a smooth, even grindstone.
There are quests in darkfall but really no storyline and most quests are "kill at least 10 xxx" that you repeat 20 times before finding a new one. This doesnt help disguise the grind at all, in fact it might even make the huge grind that much more apparent for someone.
Allright, I'll bite, once. You actually have to respond if you want me to bite again though.
1. If the game isn't PVP based then how come I lose my gear once a day to gankers?
2. What PVP-based MMORPG that is currently healthy are you comparing Darkfall to? You mentioned DAOC in another thread, but that game isn't healthy. You mentioned Warhammer, but almost all WAR's pvp takes place in cordoned off scenarios, and the newbies are seperated by vets by tiers. Newbies would still get owned by vets if they weren't placed in tier/playpens. If Darkfall used the same tier system, then people could PVP everyone around them, just like in Warhammer. It would suck though, just like Warhammer sucks. Actually, scratch that- you can only kill people of the opposing faction in Warhammer, just like most PVP MMORPGS (except Darkfall).
So what other "PVP-based" MMORPG are you talking about that doesn't have a grind? Does one exist? Since you're saying that Darkfall isn't a pvp-based MMORPG because it has a grind, surely there must be one that exists that doesn't have a grind. Otherwise, and this I would agree with, Darkfall is the most PVP-based MMORPG on the market right now.
Full loot is just an incentive to get people to PvP. There is no point system or "PvP levels" like DAoC, AoC, WAR, etc.. so they had to give players a reason to PvP. You gain nothing from killing a player besides their loot in darkfall.
The fact that warhammer seperates high level players from low level players doesn't take away from the fact that you are PvP'ing. Battleground or whatever they called it only made it easy for players to fight against other players of similar skill level while also allowing open world PvP.
Also, pretty much every game has a PvE grind. Some games that emphasize PvP minimize the PvE grind, like DAoC where you can get max level in a few days, or warhammer where you can grind completely on PvP. If there isnt a solid PvP system then a game developer will maximize the PvE grind to get the player to stay subscribed longer, and to take attention away from the lack of a PvP system.
We've done this 1,000 times already and it's just boring now. You make the same proposal justifying it by saying it'll bring in more players and you link some graph made by a dude using MS paint. I say it looks like an NGE and ask where your evidence is that leads you to believe that making it easier and faster to attain a high level will result in higher player numbers. I go on to point out that in the past every MMORPG that did this has actually lost massive amounts of subscriptions as it made the game mediocre, the loyal playerbase quit and that potential playerbase never materialized. You then fail to answer this but continue to say the same thing and post the same graphs in threads like a broken record. We wait a bit and you leap in on any thread you can and start it all over again.
So Kasmos are you going to post the evidence that shows it will actually bring in a new playerbase and not leave us playing WW2online in a fantasy setting or are you going to ignore the question again because you don't have it? I await your post that fails to answer me with baited breath!
How about all the polls on the forums that show that the majority of people think that there is an issue?
I've seen those polls and out of the tiny amount of the playerbase that responded it's about 50/50 meaning it'd make no difference population wise ... if you believe statistics that is!
How about all the threads that go on for hundreds of posts in which PLENTY of people argue that there is an issue?
People argue, plenty disagree with the idea like myself.
How about all the people that used to be subscribed that post on the forums saying the grind was one of the biggest reasons (if not the biggest) that they left?
What about them? A handfull of people QQing because they got rolled isn't enough to change the mechanics on everyone that is paying to play in my opinion.
A lot of my real life friends I brought to this game quit because of the intense grind, and some of these kids can from Project Everquest 1999!
Alot of my friends bought it and stuck with it because of the unique character progression, maybe we should make it harder?
A lot of my clanmates quit because of the intense grind.
So? We had many more quit because they got pked and rage quit, should we make pvp consencial in order to raise subs they may not materialize?
I mean really, I don't know what you want me to show you. Numbers? You're trying to have me show you evidence with numbers when Aventurine hasn't released ANYTHING. All we can go off of is what we see on the forums and through talking to people in game.
Show me some evidence that it would bring in more players, we know for a fact many that are playing have said they'd quit (forum polls prove it, see how I did that?) but how many would play? Also why would I care even if you were correct because it'd be WoWfall and I'd have quit anyway!
And just look at your quoted post. You say, and I quote, "and not leave us playing WW2online in a fantasy setting", implying that it would turn the game into an FPS. Why would doing what I am proposing turn it into an FPS? The grind would remain THE EXACT SAME, all it would do is get people to a more competitive level in 4 months of casual play.
I used WW2online as it has little character progression, you can pvp straight away on an even keel and it's dead. Being a good pvper isn't all about stats, you can be good with high skills and on 250 HPs, people in my clan with 250 hp can beat me and I have 340. This is about stat whining, give the whiners what they want and they'll all sub because a forum pull of a few hundred players says so ... lame.
How in the HELL is that even CLOSE to turning it into an FPS? How about you answer that question for me Agricola?
And hell, you even make fun of the graph because it was made in MS paint. Well SORRY we all can't make ridiculous pictures like you can, not all of us have photoshop or the skillset to use it. Just because it was made in MS paint doesn't make what it's representing any less valid.
And even FURTHER, how about all the people that have what I linked in this thread in their signatures supporting it? A lot of those same people are veterans from even as far back as 2003!
So now it's your turn to support your opinion Agricola:
How would implementing something like I have talked about in this thread and explained in detail, and what is represented in the bottom graph in the link that I posted, do anything negative towards Darkfall? How would it take away what veterans have earned? How would it turn it into an FPS?
What about all the vets that are against it? Don't they count anymore because they don't fit into your grand scheme of things? Those polls are pretty evenly split and to be fair most people are just sick of the stat whine threads and avoid them now, the only people who click on them and vote are probably stat whiners themselves.
I did my part, now I'm the one waiting with baited breath for an answer.
You didn't do your part, your evidence is just a few polls you selected carefully and a shitty graph. All the evidence points to a horrible death if we get a trammel/NGE and everyone is given a get out of character progression free card. Show me a game where it worked? You can't because all the games that did it died horribly and were not recoverable, you have a poll some mates that quit and a graph. The rest of us that are against it don't count, well SOE said that once and their game died in 3 months when they didn't listen.
/rant begin
Well I dare Aventurine to do it, go for it because I'd be gone like a flash along with everyone else they'd be pissing on. I don't know how many we are, I don't give a shit about some bologne poll or a graph made with MS paint. Do it FFS so that Kasmos will STFU and I don't have to read his BS in every single thread when him and the three other stat whiners hijack it and talk about it being a no skill PvE game. And if they do can the stat whiners please make a promise not to polloute any future PvP based game that has a tough character progression please, just stay in WoWfall and nutcup with the 5 other stat whiners left playing,
/rant end
You know, I'm about to leave work and I'm not up to responding to every little thing you said, because all I want from you is to actual respond to the questions I specifically asked you to respond to.
THAT'S ALL I WANT TO HEAR FROM YOU. All you've done is completely dodge the questions I wanted you to answer with your dribble. And where have I said this game requires no skill? Where have I said it's a PvE game?
So again Agricola, and I'll put it in bolded red this time so you can't miss it:
How would implementing something like I have talked about in this thread and explained in detail, and what is represented in the bottom graph in the link that I posted, do anything negative towards Darkfall? How would it take away what veterans have earned? How would it turn it into an FPS?
Don't respond with, "Rarrrrrr TRAMMEL!!!!! WOWFALL!!!!! ", or "That crappy graph is dumb", give me an actual response. You've dodged actually having to talk about non-linear stat benefit gain, what I am advocating here, throughout this ENTIRE thread. And you say, "What about all the vets that are against it?" Well Agricola, what about all the vets, like myself, that are for it? What about all the vets that have it in their signatures supporting it? Do they not count simply because they want a change to occur to the game that they love as much as you do?
So again, argue to me why changing the way stats affect your character from how they are now to a non-linear stat benefit gain system like what is represented in that "crappy" graph I linked earlier and what I am advocating for, and then we can have a discussion. All this nonsense name calling and misrepresentation of my arguments is getting annoying, because you CONTINUOUSLY refuse to actual discuss non-linear stat benefit gain.
I'll be waiting for your well thought out response.
Seeing this topic come up in so many posts…pretty much all of them. It’s got to be THE hot-button issue right now in Darkfall. I, for one, really don’t get it. Before I get into why, let me say that there’s a good chance I’m the most casual player posting on this forum. In fact I’m not even subbed right now due to a busy schedule between work and family…no time for games. When I do sub again, it will be when I actually get maybe a few free hours a week to play again. (yes, a week, not a day). So my point is spare me the “but I don’t live in my mommy’s basement playing video games 24/7”…because I’m pretty much the opposite of that. So, having said that, and despite my ultra-casual play style, I can safely say that if Darkfall didn’t have a lengthy character progression aspect to the game I wouldn’t be remotely interested in playing. Isn’t this one of the pillars of mmorpgs…character progression? Wouldn’t the game essentially be ruined if you could max out your character and be battling 1-year vets on even footing after a week or two? What’s the point in even playing the game in that case? Do you people who speak negatively of the grind not value character progression in these games? I’m really just trying to understand your rationale. To me the “grind” is actually “playing the game”. It’s progressing your character, making him more powerful via stats, skills and items as you make your way in the world. This has to be one of the carrots always in front of me or I lose interest quickly once my character stops developing (ie reaches “end game”). Are people just jealous of those players who “have more” than me, even though they’ve put in 100 or 1000 more hours on their character? I don’t get this either but I’ve seen it a lot. I played EQ for 7 years. Never maxed out my character. And loved every second of it. I knew there were people that were ahead of me in terms of stats/skills/items and always would be. So what? To me that’s part of what made the world so real, so complex and so fun to be a part of. There were many different levels of players because of the rather lengthy character progression and it was awesome. I could see someone walk past me with some super high-level kick-ass weapon from some place I’d never been and probably never would and be in awe. Conversely I could have lower level players drooling over my ranger epics while standing in the EC tunnel. These many different layers of player groupings gave the world life, helped a ton to stabilize the economy, and again just made the world a fun, thriving and realistic place to live in. Would it have been the same if everyone in EQ was level 50 with all the best stuff? Not even close. In that case the economy suffers, the world becomes extremely boring, and to me at least the game just becomes completely stale and much less interesting. I remember reading a post not too long ago about one of, if not the best, players in Darkfall (Valroth I think). The post was about how this guy, who had essentially maxed his character and was one of the major bad-asses on the server had lost a lot of his urge to log in because his character had essentially stopped progressing. He was very powerful but so what…without that carrot to keep improving your character he had lost much interest in the game. For me it would be the exact same way, which is why I would hate to be battling vets on even footing within a week or two. At that point my interest in the game would lessen and once I stopped progressing it would essentially be over for me and Darkfall. Sorry for the wall of text and thanks for listening. I just don’t understand this mentality of hating the “grind” of a game and wanting to be maxed out in a week or two and at the top of the game. To me that = a very boring game when character progression stops being a part of it less than a month in. Where does this mentality come from? Is this part of what WoW has done to the genre? Do most of you people on that side of the fence come from playing WoW or other similar games? What keeps you playing after your character maxes out in a couple weeks? Why don’t you just play some of those online FPS out there where you don’t have to worry about any grind and everyone starts out on equal footing? One more thing, I played Vanguard for over a year. Loved everything about the “idea” behind the game, figured it would be the spiritual successor to EQ. It was a rocky launch obviously but I still liked the game…but it all started going downhill for me when they upped the leveling to warp speeds to try to bring in that market so people could quickly get to the end-game (which sadly didn’t exist…but that’s another story). To me, the affect of cranking up the leveling speeds greatly diminished any achievements I had in the game. Beat a hard quest and got a great reward? Great…but you’re going to out-level that reward in 2 weeks anyway so who gives a rats behind…anyway that was the beginning of the end for me. I guess my point is that this is another great reason why quick character progression is bad…for me all it does is greatly diminish any achievements my character might have in the game. Would getting my epics in EQ been such a great accomplishment that I recall fondly to this day if I had outleveled those epics in a month instead of using them for the next 2 years? No, not even close. Ok, I doubt anyone even gets this far but I had to get that off my chest! Carry on.
The number 1 reason people leave the game is NOT the grind, its becuase they get killed and lose their stuff, if they get over getting ganked once a day they wouldnt have such a hard on for grinding.
This is simply not true.
Your point could have been valid the first months, but now everybody knows DF is a full-loot mmo. It is a problem we lose this many players the first moths, but who can blame them. The PVE is boring, the game is empty, hardly any decent PVP, no politics, hardly any fights over sea fortress, sieges are rare, travel is slow and the grind is huge.
We have nothing of what Darkfall was suppose to be about. We have those small counter strike battles with less than 10 players and that`s it. You can try to deny that all you want Agricola, but I`m in the same alliance you are. And SWG was a pve game, so you can`t compare it to DF. I have been PVEing for 5 days now and look forward to the weekends. If we are lucky we might get some decent pvp.
The game is one year old and it works flawless. Still we can`t hold the new players. The only reason we don`t even get the pvper to Darkfall is the grind. And the 90% that quit after the first months tells his friends and the word gets around. We are royaly fucked if AV can`t get new players competative in a resonable time. If AV would just speed up the stats and pvp skills/spell, then the crafting could have been the long term grind.
I`ve told you before, we vets will still have the advantage. We have money, mats, gear and experience. We do not need a huge level difference on top of that.
A FFA PvP game that requires you to grind PvE before you have a chance in PvP?
That doesn't make any sense!
"But heerobya, if there WERE no grind, no stats, no "better" skills/armors/weapons then what would keep the lowly newbie from defeating me and my guild-mates in combat and stealing OUR stuff instead?"
I agree with this player here. Congrats on something well said.
I tried the trial, and well, in 7 days, I honestly couldn't get very much accomplished. I don't have 4~6 hours a day to sit in front of a computer anymore. I work a full-time job, am a full-time college student, and have responsibilities on top of this stuff. I was capable of getting 2 skills to 25, so I can finally learn 2 abilities. 2h sword power attack, and some draw forward ability.
Here's my thing though. You have like no abilities to start. Your basic either melee, or mana missile takes like 7-8 hits to kill a basic goblin. Now if you're on a 1.25second recast/attack, it takes 8 seconds to kill ONE ENEMY. Frankly, I'm not asking for super quick kills, but its straight out boring. Not to mention, you have veteran players trying to wipe the floor with you, because they are bored as hell. I understand its a PvP game, but I can't even defend myself as I have NO MEANS TO DO SO!!
AV is losing players due to a slow level up of anything, and that vets are bored because of lack of content from what i've heard.
In short, they're killing themselves. New players may start up because of the trial, but I don't think enough to help save a slowly sinking ship. If some decent revisions are made to where, I don't need to sink a week into getting a few skills leveled up, hell yeah I'll play! DFO is a decent game, but just way, way, way to time consuming. It kind of reminded me stand in Jeuno, searching for a party for well over an hour in FFXI!
Franker
PS. I'm not whining, i'm giving my honest opinion. Flame on!
..Planetside definitely wasn't "ruined" because you could battle 1-2 year old vets and actually have a chance at winning, the first day you entered the game.
The number 1 reason people leave the game is NOT the grind, its becuase they get killed and lose their stuff, if they get over getting ganked once a day they wouldnt have such a hard on for grinding.
This is simply not true.
Your point could have been valid the first months, but now everybody knows DF is a full-loot mmo. It is a problem we lose this many players the first moths, but who can blame them. The PVE is boring, the game is empty, hardly any decent PVP, no politics, hardly any fights over sea fortress, sieges are rare, travel is slow and the grind is huge.
We have nothing of what Darkfall was suppose to be about. We have those small counter strike battles with less than 10 players and that`s it. You can try to deny that all you want Agricola, but I`m in the same alliance you are. And SWG was a pve game, so you can`t compare it to DF. I have been PVEing for 5 days now and look forward to the weekends. If we are lucky we might get some decent pvp.
The game is one year old and it works flawless. Still we can`t hold the new players. The only reason we don`t even get the pvper to Darkfall is the grind. And the 90% that quit after the first months tells his friends and the word gets around. We are royaly fucked if AV can`t get new players competative in a resonable time. If AV would just speed up the stats and pvp skills/spell, then the crafting could have been the long term grind.
I`ve told you before, we vets will still have the advantage. We have money, mats, gear and experience. We do not need a huge level difference on top of that.
This person Hotjazz has killed over 17,000+ mobs. Why would he lie?
I read your post but I have to disagree. For starters, MOST people that want to either reduce the grind or decrease the gap between veteran and new players do NOT want you to reach max, or anywhere close to it, in a "week or two". Myself, for example, think that you should be able to stand your own against a veteran, even if you lose most of the fights, after 3 months of playing casually, something that is NOT the case at all right now. I made a thread about increasing stat gain that got over 700 replies, because at the time I thought that simply increasing stat gain would resolve the issue. Now, I have changed my views to support this suggestion here which does not decrease the grind or time it takes to reach max AT ALL, meaning that that character progression you're talking about remains the same length of time. Instead, it changes how stats affect your character, giving your character more benefits early on during progression, and less as you get towards max. I think that this suggestion would make Darkfall much better for any new player joining the game (and even players in game right now) without decreasing the grind or decreasing the time it takes to reach max level, and without taking away what veterans have worked for.
You can be competitve against a vet after 2 months of playing casually,
I read your post but I have to disagree. For starters, MOST people that want to either reduce the grind or decrease the gap between veteran and new players do NOT want you to reach max, or anywhere close to it, in a "week or two". Myself, for example, think that you should be able to stand your own against a veteran, even if you lose most of the fights, after 3 months of playing casually, something that is NOT the case at all right now. I made a thread about increasing stat gain that got over 700 replies, because at the time I thought that simply increasing stat gain would resolve the issue. Now, I have changed my views to support this suggestion here which does not decrease the grind or time it takes to reach max AT ALL, meaning that that character progression you're talking about remains the same length of time. Instead, it changes how stats affect your character, giving your character more benefits early on during progression, and less as you get towards max. I think that this suggestion would make Darkfall much better for any new player joining the game (and even players in game right now) without decreasing the grind or decreasing the time it takes to reach max level, and without taking away what veterans have worked for.
You can be competitve against a vet after 2 months of playing casually,
This is an absolute lie.
Unless casually playing means 14+ hours per day to you.
I read your post but I have to disagree. For starters, MOST people that want to either reduce the grind or decrease the gap between veteran and new players do NOT want you to reach max, or anywhere close to it, in a "week or two". Myself, for example, think that you should be able to stand your own against a veteran, even if you lose most of the fights, after 3 months of playing casually, something that is NOT the case at all right now. I made a thread about increasing stat gain that got over 700 replies, because at the time I thought that simply increasing stat gain would resolve the issue. Now, I have changed my views to support this suggestion here which does not decrease the grind or time it takes to reach max AT ALL, meaning that that character progression you're talking about remains the same length of time. Instead, it changes how stats affect your character, giving your character more benefits early on during progression, and less as you get towards max. I think that this suggestion would make Darkfall much better for any new player joining the game (and even players in game right now) without decreasing the grind or decreasing the time it takes to reach max level, and without taking away what veterans have worked for.
You can be competitve against a vet after 2 months of playing casually,
This is an absolute lie.
Unless casually playing means 14+ hours per day to you.
It means training only like 10 things instead of 100. Sorry you don't understand what focus training means.
Unless casually playing means 14+ hours per day to you.
It means training only like 10 things instead of 100. Sorry you don't understand what focus training means.
Indeed.
This is something every new player needs to understand when starting "late" in a game like this. It's the same deal with EVE. The sooner you learn to focus your training the better.
I read your post but I have to disagree. For starters, MOST people that want to either reduce the grind or decrease the gap between veteran and new players do NOT want you to reach max, or anywhere close to it, in a "week or two". Myself, for example, think that you should be able to stand your own against a veteran, even if you lose most of the fights, after 3 months of playing casually, something that is NOT the case at all right now. I made a thread about increasing stat gain that got over 700 replies, because at the time I thought that simply increasing stat gain would resolve the issue. Now, I have changed my views to support this suggestion here which does not decrease the grind or time it takes to reach max AT ALL, meaning that that character progression you're talking about remains the same length of time. Instead, it changes how stats affect your character, giving your character more benefits early on during progression, and less as you get towards max. I think that this suggestion would make Darkfall much better for any new player joining the game (and even players in game right now) without decreasing the grind or decreasing the time it takes to reach max level, and without taking away what veterans have worked for.
You can be competitve against a vet after 2 months of playing casually,
This is an absolute lie.
Unless casually playing means 14+ hours per day to you.
It means training only like 10 things instead of 100. Sorry you don't understand what focus training means.
Focus your training casually and it's still a lie. Why do you continue to lie to new players like this? If you play this game casually focusing all of your training with the precision of a Monk you won't be competitive in 2 months. I'm glad that if a new player believes you it will only cost them $1 to figure this out.
I've seen you in-game before with the same name if that's you. So I'll ask how many mobs have you killed?
So if I read a ton of outside information and websites and player blogs and news sites, and then log in and ask for tons of information so I can make sure to "focus" my training correctly...
I can start to enjoy the game in 2 weeks rather then 2 months?
Huh...
You know, maybe it's just me, but if I don't enjoy the game in the first two weeks what motivation do I have to keep playing?
I mean seriously, what kind of snake-oil salesmen crap is this?
So if I read a ton of outside information and websites and player blogs and news sites, and then log in and ask for tons of information so I can make sure to "focus" my training correctly... I can start to enjoy the game in 2 weeks rather then 2 months? Huh... You know, maybe it's just me, but if I don't enjoy the game in the first two weeks what motivation do I have to keep playing? I mean seriously, what kind of snake-oil salesmen crap is this?
I've enjoyed the game for the first week I've played. Fortunately, "killing veterans" isn't the only thing I care about.
So if I read a ton of outside information and websites and player blogs and news sites, and then log in and ask for tons of information so I can make sure to "focus" my training correctly...
I can start to enjoy the game in 2 weeks rather then 2 months?
Huh...
You know, maybe it's just me, but if I don't enjoy the game in the first two weeks what motivation do I have to keep playing?
I mean seriously, what kind of snake-oil salesmen crap is this?
If the only way you enjoy the game is by winning and PvPing 1v1 against established players then you probably won't like DFO. If you enjoy the game by playing it normally and like group battles and sieges then you may like DFO.
Originally posted by mmoluva
Originally posted by xpiher
Originally posted by mmoluva
Originally posted by xpiher
Originally posted by Kasmos
I read your post but I have to disagree.
For starters, MOST people that want to either reduce the grind or decrease the gap between veteran and new players do NOT want you to reach max, or anywhere close to it, in a "week or two". Myself, for example, think that you should be able to stand your own against a veteran, even if you lose most of the fights, after 3 months of playing casually, something that is NOT the case at all right now.
I made a thread about increasing stat gain that got over 700 replies, because at the time I thought that simply increasing stat gain would resolve the issue. Now, I have changed my views to support this suggestion here which does not decrease the grind or time it takes to reach max AT ALL, meaning that that character progression you're talking about remains the same length of time. Instead, it changes how stats affect your character, giving your character more benefits early on during progression, and less as you get towards max.
I think that this suggestion would make Darkfall much better for any new player joining the game (and even players in game right now) without decreasing the grind or decreasing the time it takes to reach max level, and without taking away what veterans have worked for.
You can be competitve against a vet after 2 months of playing casually,
This is an absolute lie.
Unless casually playing means 14+ hours per day to you.
It means training only like 10 things instead of 100. Sorry you don't understand what focus training means.
Focus your training casually and it's still a lie. Why do you continue to lie to new players like this? If you play this game casually focusing all of your training with the precision of a Monk you won't be competitive in 2 months. I'm glad that if a new player believes you it will only cost them $1 to figure this out.
I've seen you in-game before with the same name if that's you. So I'll ask how many mobs have you killed?
The correct question should be, how many mobs have I killed to level. Not many because I know of mobs you can level magic on 1-75 (any spell) and school 1-80 without killing it and not exploiting completely legit in a matter of about 3days (15hrs)
So, like I said, focus train your character. You'll have a character with the skill level of a vet in enough areas to compete with that vet and kill them.
Originally posted by holdenhamlet I've enjoyed the game for the first week I've played. Fortunately, "killing veterans" isn't the only thing I care about.
Originally posted by holdenhamlet I've enjoyed the game for the first week I've played. Fortunately, "killing veterans" isn't the only thing I care about.
Grinding goblins?
If you are still grinding goblins after 2 weeks you are playing the game wrong. By week 3 you should moved on to many different mobs, gotten a good amount of gold, done a good amount of quest, and have a good supply of materials to do crafting if you want or sell for money All casually (10-15hrs/week)
Originally posted by holdenhamlet I've enjoyed the game for the first week I've played. Fortunately, "killing veterans" isn't the only thing I care about.
Grinding goblins?
Well, I've grinded some goblins, got ganked a bunch of times, did some gathering, killed 3 players and stole their loot. Rode around a bit and explored. Did some group grinding with my clan. Saved a clanmate from getting ganked. Was basically driven out of our clan's city by constant raiding (you may see this as a bad thing, but I see it as cool because that can't happen in any other game).
In another few days I'll be raiding goblin spawns against fellow newbies and stealing their loot.
More exciting things have happened in my first week in Darkfall then my first week in any other MMORPG.
No, I didn't singlehandedly storm a clan's fortress and kill them all and take over the fortress, but that's ok by me. That can wait haha.
Originally posted by Psalms If they make the game any easier to lvl, i dont know if i would keep playing
I was just enjoying laughing at this thread until I see this sentiment repeated so often...
...doesn't this just speak loads about Darkfall in so few words? The OP said it in that a vet practically maxed out his character and got bored (and that he himself would lose interest without it). Several others have echoed the same in that they'd quit without the grind (Hey Agricola!). I mean, that pretty much says it all about the state of the game and its current players, now doesn't it? I'd elaborate, but it's another wall of text noone would read, and besides, I think a little thought into what that really means should say all it needs to.
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." George Bernard Shaw
What is a cynic? A man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing. Oscar Wilde
Comments
You are pretty much right. If a game isnt PvP based then it really comes down to how well the developers can disguise the grind. In darkfall there is really no attempt to disguise it at all you pretty much just have to kill thousands of mobs raw, while other games disguise the grind within tons of quests and storyline. This magnifies the difficulty many times even though the amount of time it takes to kill your 10k or 15k mobs or whatever is about the same it takes to hit cap level in other games. The darkfall grindstone is very rough and uneven. When you smash your forehead against it it hurts a lot more than a smooth, even grindstone.
There are quests in darkfall but really no storyline and most quests are "kill at least 10 xxx" that you repeat 20 times before finding a new one. This doesnt help disguise the grind at all, in fact it might even make the huge grind that much more apparent for someone.
I'd rather kill X amount of mobs because I chose to, than to have soome dumb-ass NPC tell me to. Thanks anyway.
You are pretty much right. If a game isnt PvP based then it really comes down to how well the developers can disguise the grind. In darkfall there is really no attempt to disguise it at all you pretty much just have to kill thousands of mobs raw, while other games disguise the grind within tons of quests and storyline. This magnifies the difficulty many times even though the amount of time it takes to kill your 10k or 15k mobs or whatever is about the same it takes to hit cap level in other games. The darkfall grindstone is very rough and uneven. When you smash your forehead against it it hurts a lot more than a smooth, even grindstone.
There are quests in darkfall but really no storyline and most quests are "kill at least 10 xxx" that you repeat 20 times before finding a new one. This doesnt help disguise the grind at all, in fact it might even make the huge grind that much more apparent for someone.
Allright, I'll bite, once. You actually have to respond if you want me to bite again though.
1. If the game isn't PVP based then how come I lose my gear once a day to gankers?
2. What PVP-based MMORPG that is currently healthy are you comparing Darkfall to? You mentioned DAOC in another thread, but that game isn't healthy. You mentioned Warhammer, but almost all WAR's pvp takes place in cordoned off scenarios, and the newbies are seperated by vets by tiers. Newbies would still get owned by vets if they weren't placed in tier/playpens. If Darkfall used the same tier system, then people could PVP everyone around them, just like in Warhammer. It would suck though, just like Warhammer sucks. Actually, scratch that- you can only kill people of the opposing faction in Warhammer, just like most PVP MMORPGS (except Darkfall).
So what other "PVP-based" MMORPG are you talking about that doesn't have a grind? Does one exist? Since you're saying that Darkfall isn't a pvp-based MMORPG because it has a grind, surely there must be one that exists that doesn't have a grind. Otherwise, and this I would agree with, Darkfall is the most PVP-based MMORPG on the market right now.
my bad. however, did you really quit becuase of the grind or becuase you cant kill other players without grinding. there is a big difference. the later supports what I am saying. People loss a fight and they feel they must win one so the grind to get 'compettive'
I have had an active subscription since February 25th, 2009, A.K.A. EU-1 launch. I love this game, don't think for a second that just because I think the gap between new players and veterans is too high and the grind to get competitive is too long that I don't love Darkfall. I plan on staying subscribed until the servers shut down, all I'm trying to do is get the population higher.
now, having said that what is 'non-linear stat benefit gain' i havent been to the offical forums in awhile i have no idea what that would look like that would not turn the game into a fantasy based version of halo
I'll provide the link to what I'm talking about below and also a description of how I would want it to work which I posted earlier in this thread but I'll re-post for simplicity. Let me know your opinion.
EDIT: I will say this, I do agree that DF has a grind. That said, its a small pain point compared to what almost all other MMO's have in terms of overall game play. I give DF a lot of slack becuase the positives in this game are very huge compared to its negitives.
Here is the link to non-linear stat benefit gain, the bottom graph represents the concept of what I'm supporting. I disagree with his numbers, but I strongly agree with the concept behind the graph. It can be found here
The following is an explanation of how I would want this system implemented. I use HP as an example:
Let's say, for arguments sake, that from the moment you start your character in Darkfall you can gain a total of 250 hit points (HP). With the current system, you'd gain that at a linear rate as your stats progress, like what is shown in the first graph.
I'm arguing for the following. Why not have it so that, by playing casually (~15 hours a week) you would get 150-175 of the 250 total hit points within 4 months and the last 75-100 hit points over the course of a year afterward? Trust me, 75-100 hit points is a good 2-3 hits in a PvP battle, and that is CERTAINLY enough to change the outcome of a battle in Darkfall.
So the new player gets a decent chunk of HP after 4 months (~240 hours of playing) but has another year to get the last ~100 HP. To me, that 100 HP is certainly something to work towards (i.e. your carrot on a stick), and DEFINITELY would give an advantage to the veterans that have worked hard for it.
Now, what do you think?
You are pretty much right. If a game isnt PvP based then it really comes down to how well the developers can disguise the grind. In darkfall there is really no attempt to disguise it at all you pretty much just have to kill thousands of mobs raw, while other games disguise the grind within tons of quests and storyline. This magnifies the difficulty many times even though the amount of time it takes to kill your 10k or 15k mobs or whatever is about the same it takes to hit cap level in other games. The darkfall grindstone is very rough and uneven. When you smash your forehead against it it hurts a lot more than a smooth, even grindstone.
There are quests in darkfall but really no storyline and most quests are "kill at least 10 xxx" that you repeat 20 times before finding a new one. This doesnt help disguise the grind at all, in fact it might even make the huge grind that much more apparent for someone.
Allright, I'll bite, once. You actually have to respond if you want me to bite again though.
1. If the game isn't PVP based then how come I lose my gear once a day to gankers?
2. What PVP-based MMORPG that is currently healthy are you comparing Darkfall to? You mentioned DAOC in another thread, but that game isn't healthy. You mentioned Warhammer, but almost all WAR's pvp takes place in cordoned off scenarios, and the newbies are seperated by vets by tiers. Newbies would still get owned by vets if they weren't placed in tier/playpens. If Darkfall used the same tier system, then people could PVP everyone around them, just like in Warhammer. It would suck though, just like Warhammer sucks. Actually, scratch that- you can only kill people of the opposing faction in Warhammer, just like most PVP MMORPGS (except Darkfall).
So what other "PVP-based" MMORPG are you talking about that doesn't have a grind? Does one exist? Since you're saying that Darkfall isn't a pvp-based MMORPG because it has a grind, surely there must be one that exists that doesn't have a grind. Otherwise, and this I would agree with, Darkfall is the most PVP-based MMORPG on the market right now.
Full loot is just an incentive to get people to PvP. There is no point system or "PvP levels" like DAoC, AoC, WAR, etc.. so they had to give players a reason to PvP. You gain nothing from killing a player besides their loot in darkfall.
The fact that warhammer seperates high level players from low level players doesn't take away from the fact that you are PvP'ing. Battleground or whatever they called it only made it easy for players to fight against other players of similar skill level while also allowing open world PvP.
Also, pretty much every game has a PvE grind. Some games that emphasize PvP minimize the PvE grind, like DAoC where you can get max level in a few days, or warhammer where you can grind completely on PvP. If there isnt a solid PvP system then a game developer will maximize the PvE grind to get the player to stay subscribed longer, and to take attention away from the lack of a PvP system.
We've done this 1,000 times already and it's just boring now. You make the same proposal justifying it by saying it'll bring in more players and you link some graph made by a dude using MS paint. I say it looks like an NGE and ask where your evidence is that leads you to believe that making it easier and faster to attain a high level will result in higher player numbers. I go on to point out that in the past every MMORPG that did this has actually lost massive amounts of subscriptions as it made the game mediocre, the loyal playerbase quit and that potential playerbase never materialized. You then fail to answer this but continue to say the same thing and post the same graphs in threads like a broken record. We wait a bit and you leap in on any thread you can and start it all over again.
So Kasmos are you going to post the evidence that shows it will actually bring in a new playerbase and not leave us playing WW2online in a fantasy setting or are you going to ignore the question again because you don't have it? I await your post that fails to answer me with baited breath!
How about all the polls on the forums that show that the majority of people think that there is an issue?
I've seen those polls and out of the tiny amount of the playerbase that responded it's about 50/50 meaning it'd make no difference population wise ... if you believe statistics that is!
How about all the threads that go on for hundreds of posts in which PLENTY of people argue that there is an issue?
People argue, plenty disagree with the idea like myself.
How about all the people that used to be subscribed that post on the forums saying the grind was one of the biggest reasons (if not the biggest) that they left?
What about them? A handfull of people QQing because they got rolled isn't enough to change the mechanics on everyone that is paying to play in my opinion.
A lot of my real life friends I brought to this game quit because of the intense grind, and some of these kids can from Project Everquest 1999!
Alot of my friends bought it and stuck with it because of the unique character progression, maybe we should make it harder?
A lot of my clanmates quit because of the intense grind.
So? We had many more quit because they got pked and rage quit, should we make pvp consencial in order to raise subs they may not materialize?
I mean really, I don't know what you want me to show you. Numbers? You're trying to have me show you evidence with numbers when Aventurine hasn't released ANYTHING. All we can go off of is what we see on the forums and through talking to people in game.
Show me some evidence that it would bring in more players, we know for a fact many that are playing have said they'd quit (forum polls prove it, see how I did that?) but how many would play? Also why would I care even if you were correct because it'd be WoWfall and I'd have quit anyway!
And just look at your quoted post. You say, and I quote, "and not leave us playing WW2online in a fantasy setting", implying that it would turn the game into an FPS. Why would doing what I am proposing turn it into an FPS? The grind would remain THE EXACT SAME, all it would do is get people to a more competitive level in 4 months of casual play.
I used WW2online as it has little character progression, you can pvp straight away on an even keel and it's dead. Being a good pvper isn't all about stats, you can be good with high skills and on 250 HPs, people in my clan with 250 hp can beat me and I have 340. This is about stat whining, give the whiners what they want and they'll all sub because a forum pull of a few hundred players says so ... lame.
How in the HELL is that even CLOSE to turning it into an FPS? How about you answer that question for me Agricola?
And hell, you even make fun of the graph because it was made in MS paint. Well SORRY we all can't make ridiculous pictures like you can, not all of us have photoshop or the skillset to use it. Just because it was made in MS paint doesn't make what it's representing any less valid.
And even FURTHER, how about all the people that have what I linked in this thread in their signatures supporting it? A lot of those same people are veterans from even as far back as 2003!
So now it's your turn to support your opinion Agricola:
How would implementing something like I have talked about in this thread and explained in detail, and what is represented in the bottom graph in the link that I posted, do anything negative towards Darkfall? How would it take away what veterans have earned? How would it turn it into an FPS?
What about all the vets that are against it? Don't they count anymore because they don't fit into your grand scheme of things? Those polls are pretty evenly split and to be fair most people are just sick of the stat whine threads and avoid them now, the only people who click on them and vote are probably stat whiners themselves.
I did my part, now I'm the one waiting with baited breath for an answer.
You didn't do your part, your evidence is just a few polls you selected carefully and a shitty graph. All the evidence points to a horrible death if we get a trammel/NGE and everyone is given a get out of character progression free card. Show me a game where it worked? You can't because all the games that did it died horribly and were not recoverable, you have a poll some mates that quit and a graph. The rest of us that are against it don't count, well SOE said that once and their game died in 3 months when they didn't listen.
/rant begin
Well I dare Aventurine to do it, go for it because I'd be gone like a flash along with everyone else they'd be pissing on. I don't know how many we are, I don't give a shit about some bologne poll or a graph made with MS paint. Do it FFS so that Kasmos will STFU and I don't have to read his BS in every single thread when him and the three other stat whiners hijack it and talk about it being a no skill PvE game. And if they do can the stat whiners please make a promise not to polloute any future PvP based game that has a tough character progression please, just stay in WoWfall and nutcup with the 5 other stat whiners left playing,
/rant end
You know, I'm about to leave work and I'm not up to responding to every little thing you said, because all I want from you is to actual respond to the questions I specifically asked you to respond to.
THAT'S ALL I WANT TO HEAR FROM YOU. All you've done is completely dodge the questions I wanted you to answer with your dribble. And where have I said this game requires no skill? Where have I said it's a PvE game?
So again Agricola, and I'll put it in bolded red this time so you can't miss it:
How would implementing something like I have talked about in this thread and explained in detail, and what is represented in the bottom graph in the link that I posted, do anything negative towards Darkfall? How would it take away what veterans have earned? How would it turn it into an FPS?
Don't respond with, "Rarrrrrr TRAMMEL!!!!! WOWFALL!!!!! ", or "That crappy graph is dumb", give me an actual response. You've dodged actually having to talk about non-linear stat benefit gain, what I am advocating here, throughout this ENTIRE thread. And you say, "What about all the vets that are against it?" Well Agricola, what about all the vets, like myself, that are for it? What about all the vets that have it in their signatures supporting it? Do they not count simply because they want a change to occur to the game that they love as much as you do?
So again, argue to me why changing the way stats affect your character from how they are now to a non-linear stat benefit gain system like what is represented in that "crappy" graph I linked earlier and what I am advocating for, and then we can have a discussion. All this nonsense name calling and misrepresentation of my arguments is getting annoying, because you CONTINUOUSLY refuse to actual discuss non-linear stat benefit gain.
I'll be waiting for your well thought out response.
Please avoid personal attacks on other posters.
Have you ever played Darkfall?
This is simply not true.
Your point could have been valid the first months, but now everybody knows DF is a full-loot mmo. It is a problem we lose this many players the first moths, but who can blame them. The PVE is boring, the game is empty, hardly any decent PVP, no politics, hardly any fights over sea fortress, sieges are rare, travel is slow and the grind is huge.
We have nothing of what Darkfall was suppose to be about. We have those small counter strike battles with less than 10 players and that`s it. You can try to deny that all you want Agricola, but I`m in the same alliance you are. And SWG was a pve game, so you can`t compare it to DF. I have been PVEing for 5 days now and look forward to the weekends. If we are lucky we might get some decent pvp.
The game is one year old and it works flawless. Still we can`t hold the new players. The only reason we don`t even get the pvper to Darkfall is the grind. And the 90% that quit after the first months tells his friends and the word gets around. We are royaly fucked if AV can`t get new players competative in a resonable time. If AV would just speed up the stats and pvp skills/spell, then the crafting could have been the long term grind.
I`ve told you before, we vets will still have the advantage. We have money, mats, gear and experience. We do not need a huge level difference on top of that.
What?
A FFA PvP game that requires you to grind PvE before you have a chance in PvP?
That doesn't make any sense!
"But heerobya, if there WERE no grind, no stats, no "better" skills/armors/weapons then what would keep the lowly newbie from defeating me and my guild-mates in combat and stealing OUR stuff instead?"
hmmmmm
I agree with this player here. Congrats on something well said.
I tried the trial, and well, in 7 days, I honestly couldn't get very much accomplished. I don't have 4~6 hours a day to sit in front of a computer anymore. I work a full-time job, am a full-time college student, and have responsibilities on top of this stuff. I was capable of getting 2 skills to 25, so I can finally learn 2 abilities. 2h sword power attack, and some draw forward ability.
Here's my thing though. You have like no abilities to start. Your basic either melee, or mana missile takes like 7-8 hits to kill a basic goblin. Now if you're on a 1.25second recast/attack, it takes 8 seconds to kill ONE ENEMY. Frankly, I'm not asking for super quick kills, but its straight out boring. Not to mention, you have veteran players trying to wipe the floor with you, because they are bored as hell. I understand its a PvP game, but I can't even defend myself as I have NO MEANS TO DO SO!!
AV is losing players due to a slow level up of anything, and that vets are bored because of lack of content from what i've heard.
In short, they're killing themselves. New players may start up because of the trial, but I don't think enough to help save a slowly sinking ship. If some decent revisions are made to where, I don't need to sink a week into getting a few skills leveled up, hell yeah I'll play! DFO is a decent game, but just way, way, way to time consuming. It kind of reminded me stand in Jeuno, searching for a party for well over an hour in FFXI!
Franker
PS. I'm not whining, i'm giving my honest opinion. Flame on!
..Planetside definitely wasn't "ruined" because you could battle 1-2 year old vets and actually have a chance at winning, the first day you entered the game.
This is simply not true.
Your point could have been valid the first months, but now everybody knows DF is a full-loot mmo. It is a problem we lose this many players the first moths, but who can blame them. The PVE is boring, the game is empty, hardly any decent PVP, no politics, hardly any fights over sea fortress, sieges are rare, travel is slow and the grind is huge.
We have nothing of what Darkfall was suppose to be about. We have those small counter strike battles with less than 10 players and that`s it. You can try to deny that all you want Agricola, but I`m in the same alliance you are. And SWG was a pve game, so you can`t compare it to DF. I have been PVEing for 5 days now and look forward to the weekends. If we are lucky we might get some decent pvp.
The game is one year old and it works flawless. Still we can`t hold the new players. The only reason we don`t even get the pvper to Darkfall is the grind. And the 90% that quit after the first months tells his friends and the word gets around. We are royaly fucked if AV can`t get new players competative in a resonable time. If AV would just speed up the stats and pvp skills/spell, then the crafting could have been the long term grind.
I`ve told you before, we vets will still have the advantage. We have money, mats, gear and experience. We do not need a huge level difference on top of that.
This person Hotjazz has killed over 17,000+ mobs. Why would he lie?
How many mobs have you killed?
You can be competitve against a vet after 2 months of playing casually,
Games:
Currently playing:Nothing
Will play: Darkfall: Unholy Wars
Past games:
Guild Wars 2 - Xpiher Duminous
Xpiher's GW2
GW 1 - Xpiher Duminous
Darkfall - Xpiher Duminous (NA) retired
AoC - Xpiher (Tyranny) retired
Warhammer - Xpiher
You can be competitve against a vet after 2 months of playing casually,
This is an absolute lie.
Unless casually playing means 14+ hours per day to you.
You can be competitve against a vet after 2 months of playing casually,
This is an absolute lie.
Unless casually playing means 14+ hours per day to you.
It means training only like 10 things instead of 100. Sorry you don't understand what focus training means.
Games:
Currently playing:Nothing
Will play: Darkfall: Unholy Wars
Past games:
Guild Wars 2 - Xpiher Duminous
Xpiher's GW2
GW 1 - Xpiher Duminous
Darkfall - Xpiher Duminous (NA) retired
AoC - Xpiher (Tyranny) retired
Warhammer - Xpiher
It means training only like 10 things instead of 100. Sorry you don't understand what focus training means.
Indeed.
This is something every new player needs to understand when starting "late" in a game like this. It's the same deal with EVE. The sooner you learn to focus your training the better.
You can be competitve against a vet after 2 months of playing casually,
This is an absolute lie.
Unless casually playing means 14+ hours per day to you.
It means training only like 10 things instead of 100. Sorry you don't understand what focus training means.
Focus your training casually and it's still a lie. Why do you continue to lie to new players like this? If you play this game casually focusing all of your training with the precision of a Monk you won't be competitive in 2 months. I'm glad that if a new player believes you it will only cost them $1 to figure this out.
I've seen you in-game before with the same name if that's you. So I'll ask how many mobs have you killed?
So if I read a ton of outside information and websites and player blogs and news sites, and then log in and ask for tons of information so I can make sure to "focus" my training correctly...
I can start to enjoy the game in 2 weeks rather then 2 months?
Huh...
You know, maybe it's just me, but if I don't enjoy the game in the first two weeks what motivation do I have to keep playing?
I mean seriously, what kind of snake-oil salesmen crap is this?
I've enjoyed the game for the first week I've played. Fortunately, "killing veterans" isn't the only thing I care about.
If the only way you enjoy the game is by winning and PvPing 1v1 against established players then you probably won't like DFO. If you enjoy the game by playing it normally and like group battles and sieges then you may like DFO.
The correct question should be, how many mobs have I killed to level. Not many because I know of mobs you can level magic on 1-75 (any spell) and school 1-80 without killing it and not exploiting completely legit in a matter of about 3days (15hrs)
So, like I said, focus train your character. You'll have a character with the skill level of a vet in enough areas to compete with that vet and kill them.
Games:
Currently playing:Nothing
Will play: Darkfall: Unholy Wars
Past games:
Guild Wars 2 - Xpiher Duminous
Xpiher's GW2
GW 1 - Xpiher Duminous
Darkfall - Xpiher Duminous (NA) retired
AoC - Xpiher (Tyranny) retired
Warhammer - Xpiher
Grinding goblins?
Grinding goblins?
If you are still grinding goblins after 2 weeks you are playing the game wrong. By week 3 you should moved on to many different mobs, gotten a good amount of gold, done a good amount of quest, and have a good supply of materials to do crafting if you want or sell for money All casually (10-15hrs/week)
Games:
Currently playing:Nothing
Will play: Darkfall: Unholy Wars
Past games:
Guild Wars 2 - Xpiher Duminous
Xpiher's GW2
GW 1 - Xpiher Duminous
Darkfall - Xpiher Duminous (NA) retired
AoC - Xpiher (Tyranny) retired
Warhammer - Xpiher
Grinding goblins?
Well, I've grinded some goblins, got ganked a bunch of times, did some gathering, killed 3 players and stole their loot. Rode around a bit and explored. Did some group grinding with my clan. Saved a clanmate from getting ganked. Was basically driven out of our clan's city by constant raiding (you may see this as a bad thing, but I see it as cool because that can't happen in any other game).
In another few days I'll be raiding goblin spawns against fellow newbies and stealing their loot.
More exciting things have happened in my first week in Darkfall then my first week in any other MMORPG.
No, I didn't singlehandedly storm a clan's fortress and kill them all and take over the fortress, but that's ok by me. That can wait haha.
Ive been playing for just under 4 months and i feel pretty competitive.
2h mastery to 65
1h almost to mastery
WC to 75 for Witches Brew
Fireball to 50
Archery 100, 2 of the subskills to 75, other is very close
70 Str, 68 Vit, Qui 53, Dex 36, Int 46, Wis 79
Obviously still have a lot of work to do, but i also have Weaponsmithing Mastery to 15 and most crafting skills to 100
If they make the game any easier to lvl, i dont know if i would keep playing
I was just enjoying laughing at this thread until I see this sentiment repeated so often...
...doesn't this just speak loads about Darkfall in so few words? The OP said it in that a vet practically maxed out his character and got bored (and that he himself would lose interest without it). Several others have echoed the same in that they'd quit without the grind (Hey Agricola!). I mean, that pretty much says it all about the state of the game and its current players, now doesn't it? I'd elaborate, but it's another wall of text noone would read, and besides, I think a little thought into what that really means should say all it needs to.
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."
George Bernard Shaw
What is a cynic? A man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.
Oscar Wilde