Wow, an other thread about the grind? It will never end. Well, thx for all you ppl making those anti grind request for DF because the grind is what prevent me from playing DF. Skills grind, i think its alright, but stats grind is terrible. I dont mind the crafting grind since a perfect politic system is suppose to be the solution, but darkfall fail on the politic side. No bubble chat, no chat filter with colours, no way to sell our goods instead of spamming WTS in game and forum. I dont ask for an auction house, but i ask for a player run shop. Can either be a shop keeper npc that sell players stuff in clan city and race capital. Race captical shop keeper should be very expensive to purchase. Keep making those thread. We have to make AV devs feel our pain. Currently, they think only about the vets. They dont want to make them drop a tear once they reduce the grind even just a lil bit.
As far as I understand, stats don't make that much of a difference. If you have 40 strength for example and you're going against someone with 100 strength, they will do 6 more damage per hit with their 60 point advantage. It's an edge, but not an insurmountable one by any measure.
Things like bubble chat would be dead giveaways as to where you are, which would be bad. There are player run vendors on houses.
The one point where I think you're right is when you say this debate will never end.
Hehe, as soon as AV will reduce a grind time all those whiners will leave DF "for something new". And veterans will leave it as well. And what AV will get? There are alotta players who like grind and play DF. There are alotta whiners who don't play DF but promise that they "perhaps will if there won't be this and that". And whom AV should chose? For me it's a stupid question because answer is obvious: AV should chose whiners and lose everything...
Let's examine why, and why I used such a big, hyphenated word up yonder. PVP
Yup, pvp. Know what the problem with the game is? Reach a point, and the challenge is gone. Why? Everyone who hasn't played more than 6+ months and/or doesn't smell like a possum can't possibly compete with them. Don't kid yourself and pretend it isn't the case. The reality is that being that much stronger than your opponents is only entertaining for so long. Go play your favorite single-player game, then turn the cheats on. You'll yee-haw it up for a bit, then you'll just say "meh" and move on. Meanwhile, what's this guy who has reached the top going to do? Farm? Pfft. By then he's likely got everything he'll ever want or need to go slaughter "noobs" all day (see earlier sentence for under 6 months definition of noob). There's no longer any motivation.
bunch more stuff..."
That was one impressive wall of text…holy cripes.
And I hate to poop on it, but the basis for your entire thesis, that being your hypothesis as to why me and many others would get bored in this game after maxxing out our character, is wrong.
I don’t care if there was massive PvP going on every 38 seconds. I don’t care if there was enough PvE to put EQ 1, 2, and yet to be released EQ 3 to shame. None of that stuff would really matter to me if my character stopped growing, stopped gaining skills/stats/power. Again, character progression to me is one of the “pillars” of mmorpg game design. One of the basic reasons I play is to improve my character. When my character stops growing in the game world then I lose interest in playing regardless if 99% of the entire player base is right there with me to provide non-stop PvP or not.
To be honest, if anything I’d think the exact opposite would be true. If I’d put in all that hard work and finally maxxed out my character along with only about 1% of the player base, I would expect to be on top of the mountain and would enjoy being able to beat the piss out of just about everyone out there in 1 vs 1…and maybe even 1 vs 2 or 3. I’d love being a key figure in the large sieges able to rack up a large body count and be one of the heros of the battle. I do think it would suck if I’d made it all the way to the top only to find out that I was now just an average Joe on part with most of the player base…to me that would suck after all the work I put in.
Having said that, I would enjoy that for a short time and the fact that my actions were no longer doing anything to improve my character in some way would drive me away from the game.
Anyway, just wanted to let you know that I think your hypethesis, while well thought-out and explained, is completely wrong in my view.
I think the main reason I disagreed with your idea to begin with was that based on your plan I envisioned a very, very fine line between those 2-month players vs the 1-year players. Reading more it seems you’d still have a pretty sizable gap in overall power between the two, but at least a 2-monther would have a prayer against a real bad 1-year vet instead of getting rolled in two hits or something. Even a 6-monther up to 8 or so would have a definitive gap in power but they would at least have the ability to compete and if they were great PvPers they could take down an average 1-year vet.
Is this closer to what you are suggesting? If yes, I could get behind something like this.
The important thing is that there needs to be visible separation there which, sure would be smoothed out over time (ie the difference between say a 1-year vet vs a 2-year vet down the road would not be nearly as great as the difference between a 2-month player vs the 1-year player).
Anyway, if I have that right at some level I could see how this may make the game more attractive for those people who want to be a little more competitive earlier on, but it still leaves a power gap there that makes it worthwhile for those vets or players who put in more time and work on their characters and deserve to have some kind of advantage in player skills/stats vs others.
Ya, I think that might be a good thing for the game. Again, the tricky part is achieving that balance that would make both parties somewhat happy.
@ Kasmos- Dude, you’re starting to sway me. I think the main reason I disagreed with your idea to begin with was that based on your plan I envisioned a very, very fine line between those 2-month players vs the 1-year players. Reading more it seems you’d still have a pretty sizable gap in overall power between the two, but at least a 2-monther would have a prayer against a real bad 1-year vet instead of getting rolled in two hits or something. Even a 6-monther up to 8 or so would have a definitive gap in power but they would at least have the ability to compete and if they were great PvPers they could take down an average 1-year vet. Is this closer to what you are suggesting? If yes, I could get behind something like this. The important thing is that there needs to be visible separation there which, sure would be smoothed out over time (ie the difference between say a 1-year vet vs a 2-year vet down the road would not be nearly as great as the difference between a 2-month player vs the 1-year player). Anyway, if I have that right at some level I could see how this may make the game more attractive for those people who want to be a little more competitive earlier on, but it still leaves a power gap there that makes it worthwhile for those vets or players who put in more time and work on their characters and deserve to have some kind of advantage in player skills/stats vs others. Ya, I think that might be a good thing for the game. Again, the tricky part is achieving that balance that would make both parties somewhat happy.
JordanJax, you have my utmost respect for actually discussing and addressing what I have been advocating, unlike certain other people in this thread that continue to dodge even MENTIONING anything about non-linear stat benefit gain (and then acting like they actually have talked about it haha) and instead decide to throw petty insults around and act like what I'm advocating would turn the game to a strict FPS (lol) or carebear land (even more lol).
But yes, you have the right understanding of what I'm advocating, as do a lot of other people on the official forums that have it linked in their signature to show their support. This system would keep the time and effort it takes to reach max level the exact same, would still provide VERY noticeable benefits and advantages to veterans that have played a long time and put many hours in, but would get newer people to the point of being able to at least defend themselves against a veteran within about 3-4 months of playing casually.
However, in order to get into the top tier of players in terms of character progression, it would take that 3-4 month old character at LEAST another year. I think it's a win-win situation for everyone; the veterans keep a very noticeable advantage and sense of accomplishment, and the newer player doesn't get discouraged early on and doesn't have to spend his entire time in game his first few months "focus training".
Again, thanks for actually having a discussion on a, well, discussion forum, and I'm glad that you don't have impenetrable blinders on like some people in this thread and can see the potential good that this concept would bring to the world of Agon.
/salute
*edit - And yes, it would have to be balanced, but it wouldn't be that difficult to do, as long as you keep the "veteran advantages" high enough to have veterans want to work for them (i.e. ~100 extra hip points, or ~100 extra mana, etc).
Based on Agricola's responses to you Kasmos, I get the impression he hasn't even read what you are proposing. Or at the very least does not understand it...
This thread is hilarious. I find it funny that the PvP is so much better and more evenly matched on the forums than it is in game.
"How would implementing something like I have talked about in this thread and explained in detail, and what is represented in the bottom graph in the link that I posted, do anything negative towards Darkfall? How would it take away what veterans have earned? How would it turn it into an FPS?" I keep answering and you keep ignoring because you don't want to consider anything that stands in the way of your little sheme. Your plan to quicken up character progression, let's just say for the sake of argument I like the idea, OK? Well my next question is why would this bring in more players? Forum polls are pretty evenly split for and against on forum fall this is a fact. Also people can't really trust forum polls as evidence to change an entire game even if they weren't split. Secondly You're using personal experience with a few friends and a graph and your feelings as reason to shaft atleast half of the playerbase if we go by those forum polls that you put so much faith in. That is why according to your own "evidence" it wouldn't work. You refuse to acknowledge this answer and dismiss it because quite frankly you have no reply and the stuck record continues. You'll post after this pretending my answer doesn't exist as you did before in this thread alone and say it isn't an answer however this question will continue to go unaddressed by you and is the reason your master plan will never happen. That is a stone cold fact and is the reason why many months later you're still doing it and will continue to do it until you get tired of banging your head against a brick wall and just leave. Also the experiments like this done on MMORPGs in the past like you're suggesting all ended in failure and the playerbase quitting and the new potential playerbase never materializing. You dismiss this also because again you have no retort and it goes against you scheme so you just put your fingers in your ears and scream "La lal ala la I can't hear you, say something else!". I'm using facts and logic and common sense, your using feelings and vibes and guess work and a graph made on MS paint by some dude in a basement. Your agrument doesn't warrant the changing of a game thousands subscribe to with real life money that they enjoy because a few dudes think it would bring in some more players ... maybe. At this point now I just don't care about your scheme because if Aventurine do it I'll quit the same day and go and get a real life! Until the next PVP MMORPG comes out with some decent character progression!
You obviously either have absolutely no idea what that graph is trying to represent, or haven't even taken the time to look at it or look at my explanations. You didn't answer how it would do anything negative towards Darkfall, you didn't answer how it would take away what veterans have earned, and you didn't answer how it would turn it into a strict FPS. As I figured, you didn't answer anything and instead resulted to insults and misrepresentations of what I'm advocating as I figured you'd do.
I don't want to speed up character progression, I want to change the way that stats affect your character, leaving how long it takes to increase a stat point exactly the way it is now. If you had read what I wrote or taken more then 2 seconds to look at that graph, you'd have realized this, but by your posts you obviously have absolutely no clue what I'm talking about, or have such strong blinders on that you refuse to acknowledge it. Show me where in this thread you addressed non-linear stat benefit gain? You haven't even talked about it once! All you've done is try to insult and belittle me, and misrepresent what I've been advocating all along all the while saying that you actually have addressed it.
At least JordanJax above this post did what I asked of him and actually discussed what I have been advocating in this thread, i.e. non-linear stat benefit gain, and guess what, after first disagreeing with me, he now understands what I'm advocating and... *GASP* thinks it could be a good idea! Unless you're going to do the same and actually discuss what I've been asking you to discuss for, oh, about 4 posts now, don't even bother replying to this post.
I was just enjoying laughing at this thread until I see this sentiment repeated so often...
...doesn't this just speak loads about Darkfall in so few words? The OP said it in that a vet practically maxed out his character and got bored (and that he himself would lose interest without it). Several others have echoed the same in that they'd quit without the grind (Hey Agricola!). I mean, that pretty much says it all about the state of the game and its current players, now doesn't it? I'd elaborate, but it's another wall of text noone would read, and besides, I think a little thought into what that really means should say all it needs to.
Doesn't say anything about the state of the game, actually. These are the kinds of people who enjoy a sense of accomplishment, and progress.
You can find them in every game. they usually have 3 or 4 alts, most max level, if not all. they enjoy the act of progressing.
Of course in Darkfall, you can only have one character, so once a character was totally maxxed out in every skill, there would be little for them to do, character-wise.
Thankfully, there are....a fuckload of skills the game. It would take ages to max them all out, especially without macroing.
This should keep them busy for a long while.
Man, you just miss the point on purpose, don't you? That's why you can't leave anything to personal interpretation without a massive explanation when it involves you guys, and even then you just don't get it because you keep your blinders on.
Look. The PVP in Darkfall is outstanding. On the flipside, the content is completely and utterly nil. The point of what I was quoting is that game currently fails on such a fundamental level because it's ... and this is a big one ... COUNTER-INTUITIVE. The people currently playing can mask their logic in defending the grind as "it's an accomplishment" or "we should have an advantage" or whatever excuse they please. The reality of it is that, as I pointed out for you - these very same people would vanish without the grind, and those that make it there eventually fade out and leave.
Let's examine why, and why I used such a big, hyphenated word up yonder. PVP
Yup, pvp. Know what the problem with the game is? Reach a point, and the challenge is gone. Why? Everyone who hasn't played more than 6+ months and/or doesn't smell like a possum can't possibly compete with them. Don't kid yourself and pretend it isn't the case. The reality is that being that much stronger than your opponents is only entertaining for so long. Go play your favorite single-player game, then turn the cheats on. You'll yee-haw it up for a bit, then you'll just say "meh" and move on. Meanwhile, what's this guy who has reached the top going to do? Farm? Pfft. By then he's likely got everything he'll ever want or need to go slaughter "noobs" all day (see earlier sentence for under 6 months definition of noob). There's no longer any motivation.
So what you're saying is that all the people you feel compelled to "compete" with don't actually play the game, since they left from boredom? LoL?? This is quite a....failure of logic, I think.
Not to mention the fact that I play the game every day with a clan....fuck, an full alliance of these "maxxed out characters" and nobody seems bored. Odd. It seems experience and the reality of the game have left little water for your "argument" to hold. It might be true if vets only fought n00bs, as you seem to imply, but that's simply not the case.
"So why, Shiymmas, does reducing the grind help?"
Again, I'll reference that big word up near the top... C O U N T E R - I N T U I T I V E*spoken with a deep, echoey voice
You can't PVP if you're out grinding, unless some random ganker finds you in which, by the very nature of the gank, you're going to die, and meanwhile you can't successfully PVP without grinding. You can try to find PVP if you'd like by going out and hunting players, but personally having tried this in Darkfall, mounted up in a team of 5, it's actually much, much harder than you might think to find enemies, other than actually raiding a player-built city or hamlet. So, you're essentially left with sieges to look forward to, which in my experience (notice the bold; it may not apply to everyone), happen once every few days and, at best, maybe twice on a weekend. The "sieges" I saw involved little more than 20-30 players on each side, and ended rather quickly (under 1hr is pretty damn fast).
And why can't you PVP if you're out "grinding"?? You don't think PVP comes to us while we're out working on magic skills, then I've got news for ya. And more than just a random ganker, buddy. See, we do something intelligent....something these games are meant for. We play in GROUPS. Random gankers get ganked. Often they bring friends as a result, and a battle results.
We don't often need to go looking for PVP, it usually comes to us. But on the occasions we do, we don't have any problem finding it. Hell , we can just load up onto rafts and head to ruby, and PVP for hours on end. We can use a house or runes to get pretty much ahywhere, and just ride around....we find plenty of fights. As soon as we start ganking other groups of players, the local cities start sending out troops. Fun for all.
And....when a siege happens, more than 20-30 players from our CLAN ALONE go to fight, and let's not forget that there are several other very good clans in our alliance who also all send troops. The enemy knows that we will show up in force, so they do as well, plus hiring of merc clans....you can see where this is going.
The reality of the situation, and the state of the game, simply don't support your little argument, once again.
I mean, if common sense hasn't sunk in by now, I'm not sure that someone doesn't need to be shipped to your house in a box, only for you to open it and have a midget whack you upside the head with a miniature steel mallet. Afterward, aside from being cross-eyed, you may finally realize that if people didn't have to spend so much Goddamn time grinding (or at least feel extremely compelled to do so by any PVPer's competitive nature) there'd be far more people actually.... TADA!!!! PVP'ING! WOOHOOO!!!
This is just a comical little paragraph that made me laugh. Thanks for that.
Imagine it! Sieges every day.. sometimes multiple times per day! Imagine that farming actually MEANT something (they could damn sure speed that up too, now that the world will be crawling with far more folks looking to .. PVP!) and that you actually faced more danger than the random, brave PK encroaching on your super-cozy PVE-haven of a player-built city! God forbid you have to .. gasp .. pay attention while doing so!
If farming didn't MEAN something, people wouldn't do it. You don't think it MEANS something to farm, I'd like to introduce you to my Keened Justicebringer some time.
And enemy clans want these spawns. We fight them off on a regular basis. Yet another example of how PVP happens...contrary to your little rant.
Come on guys. There's an extremely bright lining to Darkfall if some serious adjustments would take place, and you shouldn't need a freaking poll or some other empirical evidence to point that out for you. Sure, keep some grind there so new folk have to really earn their skills. One to two months tops for a hardcore player to get a maxed out magic school (I'm talking mastery to 75+ here, not just 100 of the school itself) with their 2h of choice and archery up there with some witches brew would be more than acceptable.
Ummm....it doesn't even take that long, if you're not just hunting n00b mobs and whining on forums. And by the way, magic schools don't have "mastery". You get intensify at 100, but there is no mastery. Further proof that you really don't know what you are talking about.
In that same time frame, 300+ HP wouldn't hurt. NOW you'd have a game on your hands where things meant more than just time invested. I mean, any dumbshit can sit around whacking trees all day, farming goblins non-stop with rank 0s and eventually become a PVP god regardless of how horrifyingly bad a player they are (I've seen these types, and I've beaten them {within the very clans I joined while playing} but I've also watched them utterly rape the average schmo just because they have the skills/stats to back up their horrifying flaws as a player). That shouldn't be the basis on which you value your character, at least not in a ... yup, P V P GAME. Get a clue.
Ummm....what?? How do you expect to get any skills on goblins when they die in 1 hit?? You want to hunt mobs that take a while to kill, to maximise your gains.....and maybe something that drops some useful loot.....get a clue.
Oh, and a last note - those other games out there with "monster" grinds actually had a mask for that grind be it in quests, changing scenery, new mob types, and plenty of other side activities to burn time with to cool off from the grind. In Darkfall, it's beat rocks, or beat mobs until you can beat people. That's not variety, that's called no content in spite of how large the world is. Crow all you want about finding new things to kill, or whatever else you want to suggest. End of the day, it's far more productive, simple, and safer to locate a nice, out-of-the-way spot with some simple mob using a rank 0 and whacking on them ad nauseam, and for those of us looking to really get into the killing [players], we want to minimize it as much as is humanly possible, and get it out of the way.
There you go again, talking about killing n00b mons with rank 0 weapons. This is fine for your first few days....and from your post I'm starting to think you only played for a few days....but if you want real skill gains, you need to leave the n00b areas and fight something real. More and more in your wall of text I've seen examples of how you simply don't know what you are talking about. There's plenty of chaning scenery in Darkfall....you would have known that if you'd actually ridden around the looked. There are....fuck, countless different kinds of mobs, dungeons, cool areas to explore, players to fight, ships to sail, cities to attack, villages to capture, and other people to hang out with, duel, and just have a good time with. I think the REAL issue you have here is that there is no quest grind.....there's no NPC telling you what to do all day long, and THAT is what you consider "content".
Flame on and "defend" with your same, tired rebuttles. I'm done with you two, Wharg0ul and Agricola. And btw, that dumbass in the picture that you always love to post about "Nobody wants to lift no heavy-ass weights"... Yeah, neither did that guy. He used steroids, much like many of your DF heroes who've macro'd their fking balls off to get where they are. Any game where that becomes the acceptable norm for a year... eh, no sense going on.
Good, because we're tired of listening to you rant and cry about things that you have no clue about.
JordanJax, you have my utmost respect for actually discussing and addressing what I have been advocating, unlike certain other people in this thread that continue to dodge even MENTIONING anything about non-linear stat benefit gain (and then acting like they actually have talked about it haha) and instead decide to throw petty insults around and act like what I'm advocating would turn the game to a strict FPS (lol) or carebear land (even more lol). But yes, you have the right understanding of what I'm advocating, as do a lot of other people on the official forums that have it linked in their signature to show their support. This system would keep the time and effort it takes to reach max level the exact same, would still provide VERY noticeable benefits and advantages to veterans that have played a long time and put many hours in, but would get newer people to the point of being able to at least defend themselves against a veteran within about 3-4 months of playing casually. However, in order to get into the top tier of players in terms of character progression, it would take that 3-4 month old character at LEAST another year. I think it's a win-win situation for everyone; the veterans keep a very noticeable advantage and sense of accomplishment, and the newer player doesn't get discouraged early on and doesn't have to spend his entire time in game his first few months "focus training". Again, thanks for actually having a discussion on a, well, discussion forum, and I'm glad that you don't have impenetrable blinders on like some people in this thread and can see the potential good that this concept would bring to the world of Agon. /salute
*edit - And yes, it would have to be balanced, but it wouldn't be that difficult to do, as long as you keep the "veteran advantages" high enough to have veterans want to work for them (i.e. ~100 extra hip points, or ~100 extra mana, etc).
Does that mean I wouldn't get 4 shot rolled in under 10 seconds, and I won't see a single vet wipe out every spawn around the npc cities?
Does that mean I wouldn't get 4 shot rolled in under 10 seconds, and I won't see a single vet wipe out every spawn around the npc cities?
No, it doesn't mean that at all, but what it does mean is that you will be gaining HP, mana, stamina, regen rates, etc at a much faster rate as a new player, making that time that you DO get 4 shot rolled in under 10 seconds not last nearly as long. What I'm advocating (and many others are too) is that instead of having stats benefit your character at a linear rate throughout your stat progression, they will do more to your character earlier on and less later.
Basically, in layman's terms, stats will affect your character the most when you first begin your character development, and as you continue to reach higher stat levels, they will affect your character less and less. Veterans will still have a very noticeable advantage if they have higher stats than you, but you can close the gap reasonably between a veteran and new player in a shorter time than it takes now.
Wow, an other thread about the grind? It will never end. Well, thx for all you ppl making those anti grind request for DF because the grind is what prevent me from playing DF. Skills grind, i think its alright, but stats grind is terrible. I dont mind the crafting grind since a perfect politic system is suppose to be the solution, but darkfall fail on the politic side. No bubble chat, no chat filter with colours, no way to sell our goods instead of spamming WTS in game and forum. I dont ask for an auction house, but i ask for a player run shop. Can either be a shop keeper npc that sell players stuff in clan city and race capital. Race captical shop keeper should be very expensive to purchase. Keep making those thread. We have to make AV devs feel our pain. Currently, they think only about the vets. They dont want to make them drop a tear once they reduce the grind even just a lil bit.
As far as I understand, stats don't make that much of a difference. If you have 40 strength for example and you're going against someone with 100 strength, they will do 6 more damage per hit with their 60 point advantage. It's an edge, but not an insurmountable one by any measure.
Things like bubble chat would be dead giveaways as to where you are, which would be bad. There are player run vendors on houses.
The one point where I think you're right is when you say this debate will never end.
You forgot about vit(STR+vit = amount of HP) Most ppl also use bow and magic(Everyone is hybrid in darkfall) So its not all about str and vit. You also need the other attribute since anyone can play hybrid without any problem or limitation between.
So stats do make a lot of difference.
Bubble chat add more immersion. If you have ventrilo, there wont be bubble chat for you. If you speak on guild or party chat, no bubble chat. bubble chat is use only when you speak to the public around you. Mortal online have bubble chat and they did it perfectly. If you are too far, you wont see it, but if you are near, you will see it. Someone like you dont need bubble chat because you probably never speak with an unknown player you run across. You just kill him, loot him and get away.
This debate will never end and i hope AV will make some change. DF had been overhyped by 300 000 registered members in their forum. They all left because of the macroers and the stupid grind. If EVE got 300k members, why DF cant do better?
Wow, an other thread about the grind? It will never end. Well, thx for all you ppl making those anti grind request for DF because the grind is what prevent me from playing DF. Skills grind, i think its alright, but stats grind is terrible. I dont mind the crafting grind since a perfect politic system is suppose to be the solution, but darkfall fail on the politic side. No bubble chat, no chat filter with colours, no way to sell our goods instead of spamming WTS in game and forum. I dont ask for an auction house, but i ask for a player run shop. Can either be a shop keeper npc that sell players stuff in clan city and race capital. Race captical shop keeper should be very expensive to purchase. Keep making those thread. We have to make AV devs feel our pain. Currently, they think only about the vets. They dont want to make them drop a tear once they reduce the grind even just a lil bit.
As far as I understand, stats don't make that much of a difference. If you have 40 strength for example and you're going against someone with 100 strength, they will do 6 more damage per hit with their 60 point advantage. It's an edge, but not an insurmountable one by any measure.
Things like bubble chat would be dead giveaways as to where you are, which would be bad. There are player run vendors on houses.
The one point where I think you're right is when you say this debate will never end.
You forgot about vit(STR+vit = amount of HP) Most ppl also use bow and magic(Everyone is hybrid in darkfall) So its not all about str and vit. You also need the other attribute since anyone can play hybrid without any problem or limitation between.
So stats do make a lot of difference.
Bubble chat add more immersion. If you have ventrilo, there wont be bubble chat for you. If you speak on guild or party chat, no bubble chat. bubble chat is use only when you speak to the public around you. Mortal online have bubble chat and they did it perfectly. If you are too far, you wont see it, but if you are near, you will see it. Someone like you dont need bubble chat because you probably never speak with an unknown player you run across. You just kill him, loot him and get away.
This debate will never end and i hope AV will make some change. DF had been overhyped by 300 000 registered members in their forum. They all left because of the macroers and the stupid grind. If EVE got 300k members, why DF cant do better?
Eve's been out a lot longer. Darkfall's subs are currently rising by any measure. It may actually be rising at an optimal rate. Darkfall works well with the population it has now. I like that there's a chance of being known and knowing other players with Darkfall's smaller population (compared to other MMORPGs). Plus when you see someone in Darkfall outside a city, they're probably going to try to kill you.
I do speak to unknown players but I use /tells (the people I'm talking to are usually too new to figure out that the public tab is for local communication). Anyway, I hardly think lack of bubblechat is causing people to quit.
I do like Kasmos's idea of non-linear stat progression. I think it's a decent compromise between the two camps. It won't be nearly enough for some people though.
Wow, an other thread about the grind? It will never end. Well, thx for all you ppl making those anti grind request for DF because the grind is what prevent me from playing DF. Skills grind, i think its alright, but stats grind is terrible. I dont mind the crafting grind since a perfect politic system is suppose to be the solution, but darkfall fail on the politic side. No bubble chat, no chat filter with colours, no way to sell our goods instead of spamming WTS in game and forum. I dont ask for an auction house, but i ask for a player run shop. Can either be a shop keeper npc that sell players stuff in clan city and race capital. Race captical shop keeper should be very expensive to purchase. Keep making those thread. We have to make AV devs feel our pain. Currently, they think only about the vets. They dont want to make them drop a tear once they reduce the grind even just a lil bit.
As far as I understand, stats don't make that much of a difference. If you have 40 strength for example and you're going against someone with 100 strength, they will do 6 more damage per hit with their 60 point advantage. It's an edge, but not an insurmountable one by any measure.
Things like bubble chat would be dead giveaways as to where you are, which would be bad. There are player run vendors on houses.
The one point where I think you're right is when you say this debate will never end.
You forgot about vit(STR+vit = amount of HP) Most ppl also use bow and magic(Everyone is hybrid in darkfall) So its not all about str and vit. You also need the other attribute since anyone can play hybrid without any problem or limitation between.
So stats do make a lot of difference.
Bubble chat add more immersion. If you have ventrilo, there wont be bubble chat for you. If you speak on guild or party chat, no bubble chat. bubble chat is use only when you speak to the public around you. Mortal online have bubble chat and they did it perfectly. If you are too far, you wont see it, but if you are near, you will see it. Someone like you dont need bubble chat because you probably never speak with an unknown player you run across. You just kill him, loot him and get away.
This debate will never end and i hope AV will make some change. DF had been overhyped by 300 000 registered members in their forum. They all left because of the macroers and the stupid grind. If EVE got 300k members, why DF cant do better?
Eve's been out a lot longer. Darkfall's subs are currently rising by any measure. It may actually be rising at an optimal rate. Darkfall works well with the population it has now. I like that there's a chance of being known and knowing other players with Darkfall's smaller population (compared to other MMORPGs). Plus when you see someone in Darkfall outside a city, they're probably going to try to kill you.
I do speak to unknown players but I use /tells (the people I'm talking to are usually too new to figure out that the public tab is for local communication). Anyway, I hardly think lack of bubblechat is causing people to quit.
I do like Kasmos's idea of non-linear stat progression. I think it's a decent compromise between the two camps. It won't be nearly enough for some people though.
You use tell when the unknown player is just near you because you know he cant hear you if that player is in a clan or in a group. You technically agree that DF chat system sux. They either need a filter chat system with colors so you can see all type of chat in one box or bubble chat system use to speak to ppl that are just in front of your face. Lack of chat bubble is a lack of local chat to me. When i played DF, i ended up sending tell or sending random group invite before i could talk. If that player was already in a group or if his name was too long to write(Remember, you have 2 names in DF) The players started to ignore me because they didnt heard me. Its an mmorpg and communication need to be done perfectly so it can be an other reason why players are quitting.
Currently, DF is rising because of the 1$ trial, but after their subscribe, do you think most of them will stay? I doubt it. The grind is horrible and the players will fall in the dark teal their ass fall on the cancel subscription.
Wow, an other thread about the grind? It will never end. Well, thx for all you ppl making those anti grind request for DF because the grind is what prevent me from playing DF. Skills grind, i think its alright, but stats grind is terrible. I dont mind the crafting grind since a perfect politic system is suppose to be the solution, but darkfall fail on the politic side. No bubble chat, no chat filter with colours, no way to sell our goods instead of spamming WTS in game and forum. I dont ask for an auction house, but i ask for a player run shop. Can either be a shop keeper npc that sell players stuff in clan city and race capital. Race captical shop keeper should be very expensive to purchase. Keep making those thread. We have to make AV devs feel our pain. Currently, they think only about the vets. They dont want to make them drop a tear once they reduce the grind even just a lil bit.
As far as I understand, stats don't make that much of a difference. If you have 40 strength for example and you're going against someone with 100 strength, they will do 6 more damage per hit with their 60 point advantage. It's an edge, but not an insurmountable one by any measure.
Things like bubble chat would be dead giveaways as to where you are, which would be bad. There are player run vendors on houses.
The one point where I think you're right is when you say this debate will never end.
You forgot about vit(STR+vit = amount of HP) Most ppl also use bow and magic(Everyone is hybrid in darkfall) So its not all about str and vit. You also need the other attribute since anyone can play hybrid without any problem or limitation between.
So stats do make a lot of difference.
Bubble chat add more immersion. If you have ventrilo, there wont be bubble chat for you. If you speak on guild or party chat, no bubble chat. bubble chat is use only when you speak to the public around you. Mortal online have bubble chat and they did it perfectly. If you are too far, you wont see it, but if you are near, you will see it. Someone like you dont need bubble chat because you probably never speak with an unknown player you run across. You just kill him, loot him and get away.
This debate will never end and i hope AV will make some change. DF had been overhyped by 300 000 registered members in their forum. They all left because of the macroers and the stupid grind. If EVE got 300k members, why DF cant do better?
Eve's been out a lot longer. Darkfall's subs are currently rising by any measure. It may actually be rising at an optimal rate. Darkfall works well with the population it has now. I like that there's a chance of being known and knowing other players with Darkfall's smaller population (compared to other MMORPGs). Plus when you see someone in Darkfall outside a city, they're probably going to try to kill you.
I do speak to unknown players but I use /tells (the people I'm talking to are usually too new to figure out that the public tab is for local communication). Anyway, I hardly think lack of bubblechat is causing people to quit.
I do like Kasmos's idea of non-linear stat progression. I think it's a decent compromise between the two camps. It won't be nearly enough for some people though.
You use tell when the unknown player is just near you because you know he cant hear you if that player is in a clan or in a group. You technically agree that DF chat system sux. They either need a filter chat system with colors so you can see all type of chat in one box or bubble chat system use to speak to ppl that are just in front of your face. Lack of chat bubble is a lack of local chat to me. When i played DF, i ended up sending tell or sending random group invite before i could talk. If that player was already in a group or if his name was too long to write(Remember, you have 2 names in DF) The players started to ignore me because they didnt heard me. Its an mmorpg and communication need to be done perfectly so it can be an other reason why players are quitting.
Currently, DF is rising because of the 1$ trial, but after their subscribe, do you think most of them will stay? I doubt it. The grind is horrible and the players will fall in the dark teal their ass fall on the cancel subscription.
The public tab is used for local communication. Everyone around you can read that. Considering you don't know that and don't know about player vendors on houses, you probably quit for some other reason. If the game's not for you, then it's just not for you.
The reason I use /tells is because I'm in the newbie areas and I figure many people, like you, won't know about the public tab or why it's there.
Wow, an other thread about the grind? It will never end. Well, thx for all you ppl making those anti grind request for DF because the grind is what prevent me from playing DF. Skills grind, i think its alright, but stats grind is terrible. I dont mind the crafting grind since a perfect politic system is suppose to be the solution, but darkfall fail on the politic side. No bubble chat, no chat filter with colours, no way to sell our goods instead of spamming WTS in game and forum. I dont ask for an auction house, but i ask for a player run shop. Can either be a shop keeper npc that sell players stuff in clan city and race capital. Race captical shop keeper should be very expensive to purchase. Keep making those thread. We have to make AV devs feel our pain. Currently, they think only about the vets. They dont want to make them drop a tear once they reduce the grind even just a lil bit.
As far as I understand, stats don't make that much of a difference. If you have 40 strength for example and you're going against someone with 100 strength, they will do 6 more damage per hit with their 60 point advantage. It's an edge, but not an insurmountable one by any measure.
Things like bubble chat would be dead giveaways as to where you are, which would be bad. There are player run vendors on houses.
The one point where I think you're right is when you say this debate will never end.
You forgot about vit(STR+vit = amount of HP) Most ppl also use bow and magic(Everyone is hybrid in darkfall) So its not all about str and vit. You also need the other attribute since anyone can play hybrid without any problem or limitation between.
So stats do make a lot of difference.
Bubble chat add more immersion. If you have ventrilo, there wont be bubble chat for you. If you speak on guild or party chat, no bubble chat. bubble chat is use only when you speak to the public around you. Mortal online have bubble chat and they did it perfectly. If you are too far, you wont see it, but if you are near, you will see it. Someone like you dont need bubble chat because you probably never speak with an unknown player you run across. You just kill him, loot him and get away.
This debate will never end and i hope AV will make some change. DF had been overhyped by 300 000 registered members in their forum. They all left because of the macroers and the stupid grind. If EVE got 300k members, why DF cant do better?
Eve's been out a lot longer. Darkfall's subs are currently rising by any measure. It may actually be rising at an optimal rate. Darkfall works well with the population it has now. I like that there's a chance of being known and knowing other players with Darkfall's smaller population (compared to other MMORPGs). Plus when you see someone in Darkfall outside a city, they're probably going to try to kill you.
I do speak to unknown players but I use /tells (the people I'm talking to are usually too new to figure out that the public tab is for local communication). Anyway, I hardly think lack of bubblechat is causing people to quit.
I do like Kasmos's idea of non-linear stat progression. I think it's a decent compromise between the two camps. It won't be nearly enough for some people though.
You use tell when the unknown player is just near you because you know he cant hear you if that player is in a clan or in a group. You technically agree that DF chat system sux. They either need a filter chat system with colors so you can see all type of chat in one box or bubble chat system use to speak to ppl that are just in front of your face. Lack of chat bubble is a lack of local chat to me. When i played DF, i ended up sending tell or sending random group invite before i could talk. If that player was already in a group or if his name was too long to write(Remember, you have 2 names in DF) The players started to ignore me because they didnt heard me. Its an mmorpg and communication need to be done perfectly so it can be an other reason why players are quitting.
Currently, DF is rising because of the 1$ trial, but after their subscribe, do you think most of them will stay? I doubt it. The grind is horrible and the players will fall in the dark teal their ass fall on the cancel subscription.
The public tab is used for local communication. Everyone around you can read that. Considering you don't know that and don't know about player vendors on houses, you probably quit for some other reason. If the game's not for you, then it's just not for you.
The reason I use /tells is because I'm in the newbie areas and I figure many people, like you, won't know about the public tab or why it's there.
The chat system is horribly designed and people missing say chat all the time. I've came up with a way to never miss say or anything for that matter (when I care) by changing the tab flash color to yellow and putting all my important chat tabs into a new window leaving the default window for tells only. When you exit the window that way, a new chat window will appear anytime you get a new tell. I just discovered that recently and I've been playing for a year
Man, you just miss the point on purpose, don't you? That's why you can't leave anything to personal interpretation without a massive explanation when it involves you guys, and even then you just don't get it because you keep your blinders on.
Look. The PVP in Darkfall is outstanding. On the flipside, the content is completely and utterly nil. The point of what I was quoting is that game currently fails on such a fundamental level because it's ... and this is a big one ... COUNTER-INTUITIVE. The people currently playing can mask their logic in defending the grind as "it's an accomplishment" or "we should have an advantage" or whatever excuse they please. The reality of it is that, as I pointed out for you - these very same people would vanish without the grind, and those that make it there eventually fade out and leave.
Let's examine why, and why I used such a big, hyphenated word up yonder. PVP
Yup, pvp. Know what the problem with the game is? Reach a point, and the challenge is gone. Why? Everyone who hasn't played more than 6+ months and/or doesn't smell like a possum can't possibly compete with them. Don't kid yourself and pretend it isn't the case. The reality is that being that much stronger than your opponents is only entertaining for so long. Go play your favorite single-player game, then turn the cheats on. You'll yee-haw it up for a bit, then you'll just say "meh" and move on. Meanwhile, what's this guy who has reached the top going to do? Farm? Pfft. By then he's likely got everything he'll ever want or need to go slaughter "noobs" all day (see earlier sentence for under 6 months definition of noob). There's no longer any motivation.
So what you're saying is that all the people you feel compelled to "compete" with don't actually play the game, since they left from boredom? LoL?? This is quite a....failure of logic, I think.
Not to mention the fact that I play the game every day with a clan....fuck, an full alliance of these "maxxed out characters" and nobody seems bored. Odd. It seems experience and the reality of the game have left little water for your "argument" to hold. It might be true if vets only fought n00bs, as you seem to imply, but that's simply not the case.
The folks you play with have 100 in their stats? Every magic school to 100 with 100 intensify? Yeah, I get that you guys fight against other clans that don't only include vets, but how much of that time is actually in combat?
Again, I'll reference that big word up near the top... C O U N T E R - I N T U I T I V E*spoken with a deep, echoey voice
You can't PVP if you're out grinding, unless some random ganker finds you in which, by the very nature of the gank, you're going to die, and meanwhile you can't successfully PVP without grinding. You can try to find PVP if you'd like by going out and hunting players, but personally having tried this in Darkfall, mounted up in a team of 5, it's actually much, much harder than you might think to find enemies, other than actually raiding a player-built city or hamlet. So, you're essentially left with sieges to look forward to, which in my experience (notice the bold; it may not apply to everyone), happen once every few days and, at best, maybe twice on a weekend. The "sieges" I saw involved little more than 20-30 players on each side, and ended rather quickly (under 1hr is pretty damn fast).
And why can't you PVP if you're out "grinding"?? You don't think PVP comes to us while we're out working on magic skills, then I've got news for ya. And more than just a random ganker, buddy. See, we do something intelligent....something these games are meant for. We play in GROUPS. Random gankers get ganked. Often they bring friends as a result, and a battle results.
"We go out in PVE grinding parties and squash any bug what comes along." I'm pretty sure I addressed this in an earlier post of mine, but I guess taking my arguments cumulatively, and rather addressing a seemingly flawed point one at a time certainly makes your point look stronger, and smarter.
We don't often need to go looking for PVP, it usually comes to us. But on the occasions we do, we don't have any problem finding it. Hell , we can just load up onto rafts and head to ruby, and PVP for hours on end. We can use a house or runes to get pretty much ahywhere, and just ride around....we find plenty of fights. As soon as we start ganking other groups of players, the local cities start sending out troops. Fun for all.
...until you get killed, a player ganks you, and back to your chaos stone/house/clan city you go. God forbid you get decapped. Oh wait, you're getting into "PVP for hours on end" so you must be fighting that whole time right? Unless your hours consider deaths, and returning to the location, or just beating players below your level or player numbers utterly senseless for hours on end.
And....when a siege happens, more than 20-30 players from our CLAN ALONE go to fight, and let's not forget that there are several other very good clans in our alliance who also all send troops. The enemy knows that we will show up in force, so they do as well, plus hiring of merc clans....you can see where this is going.
The reality of the situation, and the state of the game, simply don't support your little argument, once again.
As I've alluded to in my former replies, and even in this one, I haven't played the game in almost exactly 2 months. Also, I wasn't in your clan, and mileage may vary. So you happen to be in a clan that fields "20-30 players .. alone". Well congratulations, because I'm fairly certain you're not representative for everyone else.
I mean, if common sense hasn't sunk in by now, I'm not sure that someone doesn't need to be shipped to your house in a box, only for you to open it and have a midget whack you upside the head with a miniature steel mallet. Afterward, aside from being cross-eyed, you may finally realize that if people didn't have to spend so much Goddamn time grinding (or at least feel extremely compelled to do so by any PVPer's competitive nature) there'd be far more people actually.... TADA!!!! PVP'ING! WOOHOOO!!!
This is just a comical little paragraph that made me laugh. Thanks for that.
Too bad you still don't realize that instead of going out in your PVE parties, waiting for some random jackass to screw with you so you can squash him like a bug, the focus COULD be PVP, politics, and actually accomplishing something other than raising your skills/stats - fun.
Imagine it! Sieges every day.. sometimes multiple times per day! Imagine that farming actually MEANT something (they could damn sure speed that up too, now that the world will be crawling with far more folks looking to .. PVP!) and that you actually faced more danger than the random, brave PK encroaching on your super-cozy PVE-haven of a player-built city! God forbid you have to .. gasp .. pay attention while doing so!
If farming didn't MEAN something, people wouldn't do it. You don't think it MEANS something to farm, I'd like to introduce you to my Keened Justicebringer some time.
And enemy clans want these spawns. We fight them off on a regular basis. Yet another example of how PVP happens...contrary to your little rant.
The only thing farming "means" right now is a severe time investment and stat grind - one for which you needn't give any attention to whatsoever. "Ok, I have about 200 wood/ore, so I'd better head back to bank." The only time this may vary is if someone on vent alerts you to incoming enemies, or you simply have a different limit to what you'll carry each time.
Come on guys. There's an extremely bright lining to Darkfall if some serious adjustments would take place, and you shouldn't need a freaking poll or some other empirical evidence to point that out for you. Sure, keep some grind there so new folk have to really earn their skills. One to two months tops for a hardcore player to get a maxed out magic school (I'm talking mastery to 75+ here, not just 100 of the school itself) with their 2h of choice and archery up there with some witches brew would be more than acceptable.
Ummm....it doesn't even take that long, if you're not just hunting n00b mobs and whining on forums. And by the way, magic schools don't have "mastery". You get intensify at 100, but there is no mastery. Further proof that you really don't know what you are talking about.
Woo, my bad. I forgot the word "intensify", which is really just semantics as everyone who plays Darkfall can agree that "intensify" is merely the MASTERY for magic, much like sharpshooter is archery's. Again, I haven't played in months now, so not knowing the precise details of each skill's name and requirements is certainly a downfall in my arguments. Again, though, if you were serious enough to discuss this outside of trying to make yourself look like an idiot, you'd take this and my past arguments in this very thread cumulatively, rather than on an individual basis. It's for reasons like this that you get labeled a blind fanboy.
In that same time frame, 300+ HP wouldn't hurt. NOW you'd have a game on your hands where things meant more than just time invested. I mean, any dumbshit can sit around whacking trees all day, farming goblins non-stop with rank 0s and eventually become a PVP god regardless of how horrifyingly bad a player they are (I've seen these types, and I've beaten them {within the very clans I joined while playing} but I've also watched them utterly rape the average schmo just because they have the skills/stats to back up their horrifying flaws as a player). That shouldn't be the basis on which you value your character, at least not in a ... yup, P V P GAME. Get a clue.
Ummm....what?? How do you expect to get any skills on goblins when they die in 1 hit?? You want to hunt mobs that take a while to kill, to maximise your gains.....and maybe something that drops some useful loot.....get a clue.
It's more an example than anything. But yes, even with 96 great axe skill, and mastery into the high 50s or low 60s (I can't remember where my mastery was, precisely), I could go out and farm Kobold Shaman and Raiders with rank 0 axes, and hit the raiders 12+ times per kill, with absolutely no threat to myself. I'd say that's pretty damn productive in terms of gains alone, when in contrast, fighting a tougher mob for such a length might get you killed. Doing so cost me no reagents, and I could farm them in crap armor, with the very weapons they dropped, meaning utterly no risk whatsoever, with no downtime (other than bugged spawns not showing back up sometimes), and actually very reasonable skillup rate, especially compared to that of bloodwalling or grouping.
Oh, and a last note - those other games out there with "monster" grinds actually had a mask for that grind be it in quests, changing scenery, new mob types, and plenty of other side activities to burn time with to cool off from the grind. In Darkfall, it's beat rocks, or beat mobs until you can beat people. That's not variety, that's called no content in spite of how large the world is. Crow all you want about finding new things to kill, or whatever else you want to suggest. End of the day, it's far more productive, simple, and safer to locate a nice, out-of-the-way spot with some simple mob using a rank 0 and whacking on them ad nauseam, and for those of us looking to really get into the killing [players], we want to minimize it as much as is humanly possible, and get it out of the way.
There you go again, talking about killing n00b mons with rank 0 weapons. This is fine for your first few days....and from your post I'm starting to think you only played for a few days....but if you want real skill gains, you need to leave the n00b areas and fight something real. More and more in your wall of text I've seen examples of how you simply don't know what you are talking about. There's plenty of chaning scenery in Darkfall....you would have known that if you'd actually ridden around the looked. There are....fuck, countless different kinds of mobs, dungeons, cool areas to explore, players to fight, ships to sail, cities to attack, villages to capture, and other people to hang out with, duel, and just have a good time with. I think the REAL issue you have here is that there is no quest grind.....there's no NPC telling you what to do all day long, and THAT is what you consider "content".
Don't get my blue response above wrong. I fought plenty of different mob types. When I quit, I'd gotten into farming Crypt Guards and Deadeyes for my solo skillups, with some Bonecrew Mariners/Captains mixed in. I was doing so with R40 or R50 weapons, depending on the speed at which I was going for (if I wanted more skillups, I may even use an R30 on the skeles, and if I wanted more gold/regs, R50). Prior to that, nearing the end of my month in the NEW clan, I had spent quite a few days, hours at a time, farming Mabria dungeon and the Greater Belows there. Making 10-15k gold or more an hour was absolutely nice for such a new character as myself, and got me quite far in a short time. The skillups weren't bad, either.
But no, my issue isn't the lack of a quest grind, or an NPC telling me what to do. My issue is that I didn't play the game from day #1, so being on any degree of a level playing field would never have been my privilege in Darkfall. Instead, grinding PVE for 1-2 months is the standard before you can even think of being truly effective in any circumstance, except in slaughtering those even newer than yourself. My issue was that the players of the game itself - those hardest of hardcore; the tragic masochists who believe that grinding for 16 hour a day, and letting their PC run macros and AFK swimming for the other 7 (then setting their alarm to wake up and re-log their characters post-maintenance) are what set the standard for competition. No, those aren't the only players you'll have to fight in Darkfall, and when I met players that were around my "level", so to speak, I had some of the most fun in an MMO I've had in quite some time. However, that becomes so quickly decimated when even one guy with 400HP, and a few surging skills comes along.
The fun in this game to me wasn't worth the frustration caused when hitting a player in BONE armor, 7-8 times with an R40 axe, and doing maybe 40% damage to him, only to have the guy turn around and whack my 250~ HP away in 3-4 hits with his R50 while I'm in scale or better. Nevermind that in mere seconds after killing me, those 400HP would be refilled by his macro'd up conversions and brew. The investment, mentally (being that wrapped up in it), and physically (in the number of hours to sit here and kill mob after mob) was simply more than I wished to participate in. You can try and debunk that with "logic" all you want, but I just wanted to enjoy the game's PVP as I knew I could with greater skills and stats. Whacking trees and rocks with my free time didn't appeal to me whatsoever, nor did wandering the wilderness for hours finding people to gank. The best this game had to offer for me was siege-related PVP, and clan warfare, both of which were scant at best due to players hiding out in their super-protected, safe little hovels. The game had grown utterly stagnant when I played.
Flame on and "defend" with your same, tired rebuttals. I'm done with you two, Wharg0ul and Agricola. And btw, that dumbass in the picture that you always love to post about "Nobody wants to lift no heavy-ass weights"... Yeah, neither did that guy. He used steroids, much like many of your DF heroes who've macro'd their fking balls off to get where they are. Any game where that becomes the acceptable norm for a year... eh, no sense going on.
Good, because we're tired of listening to you rant and cry about things that you have no clue about.
I honestly wouldn't have replied at all if you hadn't made such a tremendously blatant effort to discredit my knowledge or experience in the game. While playing, I did in fact know the ins and outs of the skills, their requirements, and their names. Having given the game little to no thought (other than to comically read these ridiculous threads) since then, I can't recall every detail of every skill. Your expectation of such a thing just shows how juvenile your attempts to discredit me truly are. "You don't know it's 'intensify hahahaaa you never played!!!1" Seriously, get real.
By the by, I'm not the one crying here. You guys are, because as I've stated previously, a cross word has been uttered about your precious. I'm merely here to discuss the most obvious, glaring issue I've ever seen with a game I actually enjoyed. I saw the potential to discuss it with some more open-minded individuals than yourself, and unfortunately you aim to make a fool of yourself, as always, by trying to cheapen the discussion with your usual poor rebuttals.
Whew.....that was a doozey....
Whew...that wasn't a doozy at all. Glad the mental capacity for reading, understanding, and responding to a paragraph at a time isn't a mental stress for me.
For reference: My original reply in cool mint green, smallest text. Wharg0ul's response in: piss yellow, small text. My (this) reply in smarter than you blue and normal size (pretentiousness included!).
A side note: it doesn't take much time at all for me to conjure up a wall of text, so I don't want you to get some odd impression that you've somehow gotten to me because I take the time to respond. I'm finding the whole thing quite amusing, tbh, and just because you might have your feathers ruffled, doesn't mean that I do. All in good fun, for me at least. If you're personally offended by anything I've written here, Wharg0ul, feel free not to bother with a response, as I'm sure it would continue to prove little more than blind love for a thing - which is perfectly OK I suppose. Shouldn't preclude a discussion here about an issue that many people have had with this game, however, so just let be what will be if you can't add anything constructive.
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." George Bernard Shaw
What is a cynic? A man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing. Oscar Wilde
I read all that and just have a couple points to respond to. I don't really have enough experience in the game to respond to most of it.
No, those aren't the only players you'll have to fight in Darkfall, and when I met players that were around my "level", so to speak, I had some of the most fun in an MMO I've had in quite some time. However, that becomes so quickly decimated when even one guy with 400HP, and a few surging skills comes along.
I think a point could be made that although you probably won't have a chance against the guy with 400HP, and by this point there will likely always be someone stronger than you unless you put in a year like they did, the inherent danger that someone like that could be close adds a really fun element. One of my favorite things about Darkfall is there's almost always some danger. The stronger the vets are compared to you, the greater the danger.
By the by, I'm not the one crying here. You guys are, because as I've stated previously, a cross word has been uttered about your precious.
I think people that like a game are naturally protective, and especially so with Darkfall since it had such a rough launch and has received much negative press over the past year.
I know for a fact that I pretty much expected the game to be awful and completely 1-dimensional before I started just based on what I've read when browsing around gaming sites. That's why I never paid for the full game. Luckily, the dollar trial came out right as my frustration with STO reached critical mass after 3 weeks, so I got a chance to try this awesome game.
Originally posted by Shiymmas Man, you just miss the point on purpose, don't you? That's why you can't leave anything to personal interpretation without a massive explanation when it involves you guys, and even then you just don't get it because you keep your blinders on.
Look. The PVP in Darkfall is outstanding. On the flipside, the content is completely and utterly nil. The point of what I was quoting is that game currently fails on such a fundamental level because it's ... and this is a big one ... COUNTER-INTUITIVE. The people currently playing can mask their logic in defending the grind as "it's an accomplishment" or "we should have an advantage" or whatever excuse they please. The reality of it is that, as I pointed out for you - these very same people would vanish without the grind, and those that make it there eventually fade out and leave. Let's examine why, and why I used such a big, hyphenated word up yonder. PVP Yup, pvp. Know what the problem with the game is? Reach a point, and the challenge is gone. Why? Everyone who hasn't played more than 6+ months and/or doesn't smell like a possum can't possibly compete with them. Don't kid yourself and pretend it isn't the case. The reality is that being that much stronger than your opponents is only entertaining for so long. Go play your favorite single-player game, then turn the cheats on. You'll yee-haw it up for a bit, then you'll just say "meh" and move on. Meanwhile, what's this guy who has reached the top going to do? Farm? Pfft. By then he's likely got everything he'll ever want or need to go slaughter "noobs" all day (see earlier sentence for under 6 months definition of noob). There's no longer any motivation.
So what you're saying is that all the people you feel compelled to "compete" with don't actually play the game, since they left from boredom? LoL?? This is quite a....failure of logic, I think.
Not to mention the fact that I play the game every day with a clan....fuck, an full alliance of these "maxxed out characters" and nobody seems bored. Odd. It seems experience and the reality of the game have left little water for your "argument" to hold. It might be true if vets only fought n00bs, as you seem to imply, but that's simply not the case. The folks you play with have 100 in their stats? Every magic school to 100 with 100 intensify? Yeah, I get that you guys fight against other clans that don't only include vets, but how much of that time is actually in combat? Yeah, many of them do. We have some new guys who only have a couple of schools to 50, but they do fine in combat. When we fight other clans.....ah, the whole time we're in combat, or chasing them down killing their mounts. What ELSE would we be doing?? Shaking hands??
_______________________________________________________________________ "So why, Shiymmas, does reducing the grind help?" Again, I'll reference that big word up near the top... C O U N T E R - I N T U I T I V E*spoken with a deep, echoey voice
You can't PVP if you're out grinding, unless some random ganker finds you in which, by the very nature of the gank, you're going to die, and meanwhile you can't successfully PVP without grinding. You can try to find PVP if you'd like by going out and hunting players, but personally having tried this in Darkfall, mounted up in a team of 5, it's actually much, much harder than you might think to find enemies, other than actually raiding a player-built city or hamlet. So, you're essentially left with sieges to look forward to, which in my experience (notice the bold; it may not apply to everyone), happen once every few days and, at best, maybe twice on a weekend. The "sieges" I saw involved little more than 20-30 players on each side, and ended rather quickly (under 1hr is pretty damn fast).
And why can't you PVP if you're out "grinding"?? You don't think PVP comes to us while we're out working on magic skills, then I've got news for ya. And more than just a random ganker, buddy. See, we do something intelligent....something these games are meant for. We play in GROUPS. Random gankers get ganked. Often they bring friends as a result, and a battle results. "We go out in PVE grinding parties and squash any bug what comes along." I'm pretty sure I addressed this in an earlier post of mine, but I guess taking my arguments cumulatively, and rather addressing a seemingly flawed point one at a time certainly makes your point look stronger, and smarter. "Bugs" know better than to come to Cairn thinking they can cockroach us. When enemies come to cairn, they come in a group, ready to fight. Props to clans such as DHW, and BKS, for giving us such intense, evenly matched battles. Always a pleasure to fight those guys. We don't often need to go looking for PVP, it usually comes to us. But on the occasions we do, we don't have any problem finding it. Hell , we can just load up onto rafts and head to ruby, and PVP for hours on end. We can use a house or runes to get pretty much ahywhere, and just ride around....we find plenty of fights. As soon as we start ganking other groups of players, the local cities start sending out troops. Fun for all. ...until you get killed, a player ganks you, and back to your chaos stone/house/clan city you go. God forbid you get decapped. Oh wait, you're getting into "PVP for hours on end" so you must be fighting that whole time right? Unless your hours consider deaths, and returning to the location, or just beating players below your level or player numbers utterly senseless for hours on end. We live so far away that once the group is wiped (if that happens) we're done with the raid. Often we just kill until we can't carry anymore, and recall home. We're fighting for most of the time, with small breaks to regroup, or to travel to another location. Not sure what point you're trying to make here. And....when a siege happens, more than 20-30 players from our CLAN ALONE go to fight, and let's not forget that there are several other very good clans in our alliance who also all send troops. The enemy knows that we will show up in force, so they do as well, plus hiring of merc clans....you can see where this is going. The reality of the situation, and the state of the game, simply don't support your little argument, once again. As I've alluded to in my former replies, and even in this one, I haven't played the game in almost exactly 2 months. Also, I wasn't in your clan, and mileage may vary. So you happen to be in a clan that fields "20-30 players .. alone". Well congratulations, because I'm fairly certain you're not representative for everyone else. There are a LOT of large clans in teh game that can field decent forces, man. Sorry you didn't get to experience something like this. My advice is that when looking for a clan to join, you do some research before hand, and make sure they are decent sized, active, and part of a fairly strong alliance. Being in a bad clan can be worse than no clan at all.
_______________________________________________________________________ I mean, if common sense hasn't sunk in by now, I'm not sure that someone doesn't need to be shipped to your house in a box, only for you to open it and have a midget whack you upside the head with a miniature steel mallet. Afterward, aside from being cross-eyed, you may finally realize that if people didn't have to spend so much Goddamn time grinding (or at least feel extremely compelled to do so by any PVPer's competitive nature) there'd be far more people actually.... TADA!!!! PVP'ING! WOOHOOO!!! This is just a comical little paragraph that made me laugh. Thanks for that. Too bad you still don't realize that instead of going out in your PVE parties, waiting for some random jackass to screw with you so you can squash him like a bug, the focus COULD be PVP, politics, and actually accomplishing something other than raising your skills/stats - fun. Many of us don't actually WANT to PVP all day long. There are other things to do in the game. Many are not of a mind that because the game HAS PVP, that this is all that we should be doing 24/7. The guild's SGs take care of the politics, which is as it should be. And as I've mentioned before, "random jackasses" don't come to Cairn. We get people who mean business down here....other wise it's just not worth the trip.
_______________________________________________________________________ Imagine it! Sieges every day.. sometimes multiple times per day! Imagine that farming actually MEANT something (they could damn sure speed that up too, now that the world will be crawling with far more folks looking to .. PVP!) and that you actually faced more danger than the random, brave PK encroaching on your super-cozy PVE-haven of a player-built city! God forbid you have to .. gasp .. pay attention while doing so! If farming didn't MEAN something, people wouldn't do it. You don't think it MEANS something to farm, I'd like to introduce you to my Keened Justicebringer some time. And enemy clans want these spawns. We fight them off on a regular basis. Yet another example of how PVP happens...contrary to your little rant. The only thing farming "means" right now is a severe time investment and stat grind - one for which you needn't give any attention to whatsoever. "Ok, I have about 200 wood/ore, so I'd better head back to bank." The only time this may vary is if someone on vent alerts you to incoming enemies, or you simply have a different limit to what you'll carry each time. Ah, it "means" something to do. It's part of the content you claim the game doesn't have. As I mentioned, it's not all about PVP, 24 hours a day. Equipment wears out (or gets looted) and needs to be replaced. Regs get used up. Materials are needed to make more gear, and regs to cast spells. It's simply part of the game, and something to do. And if I happen to get a stat point or two while doing it, that much better. _______________________________________________________________________ Come on guys. There's an extremely bright lining to Darkfall if some serious adjustments would take place, and you shouldn't need a freaking poll or some other empirical evidence to point that out for you. Sure, keep some grind there so new folk have to really earn their skills. One to two months tops for a hardcore player to get a maxed out magic school (I'm talking mastery to 75+ here, not just 100 of the school itself) with their 2h of choice and archery up there with some witches brew would be more than acceptable. Ummm....it doesn't even take that long, if you're not just hunting n00b mobs and whining on forums. And by the way, magic schools don't have "mastery". You get intensify at 100, but there is no mastery. Further proof that you really don't know what you are talking about. Woo, my bad. I forgot the word "intensify", which is really just semantics as everyone who plays Darkfall can agree that "intensify" is merely the MASTERY for magic, much like sharpshooter is archery's. Again, I haven't played in months now, so not knowing the precise details of each skill's name and requirements is certainly a downfall in my arguments. Again, though, if you were serious enough to discuss this outside of trying to make yourself look like an idiot, you'd take this and my past arguments in this very thread cumulatively, rather than on an individual basis. It's for reasons like this that you get labeled a blind fanboy. Yeah, I know. you havn't played in months. And yet you try to come off as such an authority on the current state of the game. I'm not the one who looks like an idiot here, pal. I actually know what I'm talking about, and the people on this site know that. I've given good, sound advice to many people here, and actually contribute to the community. What exactly have YOU done, other than cry and stomp your feet?? Maybe I AM a "fanboi"....but I sure as shit aren't "blind". I've never claimed Darkfall was perfect, and in fact I can list a few things that either need to be changed or downright suck (such as the chat tab system.....eeeeyuk!!), but I don't rant and rave on forums about it, and insult those who disagree with me.
_______________________________________________________________________ In that same time frame, 300+ HP wouldn't hurt. NOW you'd have a game on your hands where things meant more than just time invested. I mean, any dumbshit can sit around whacking trees all day, farming goblins non-stop with rank 0s and eventually become a PVP god regardless of how horrifyingly bad a player they are (I've seen these types, and I've beaten them {within the very clans I joined while playing} but I've also watched them utterly rape the average schmo just because they have the skills/stats to back up their horrifying flaws as a player). That shouldn't be the basis on which you value your character, at least not in a ... yup, P V P GAME. Get a clue. Ummm....what?? How do you expect to get any skills on goblins when they die in 1 hit?? You want to hunt mobs that take a while to kill, to maximise your gains.....and maybe something that drops some useful loot.....get a clue. It's more an example than anything. But yes, even with 96 great axe skill, and mastery into the high 50s or low 60s (I can't remember where my mastery was, precisely), I could go out and farm Kobold Shaman and Raiders with rank 0 axes, and hit the raiders 12+ times per kill, with absolutely no threat to myself. I'd say that's pretty damn productive in terms of gains alone, when in contrast, fighting a tougher mob for such a length might get you killed. Doing so cost me no reagents, and I could farm them in crap armor, with the very weapons they dropped, meaning utterly no risk whatsoever, with no downtime (other than bugged spawns not showing back up sometimes), and actually very reasonable skillup rate, especially compared to that of bloodwalling or grouping.
Considering the mob I just killed dropped over 7k in gold, armor (full plate), weapons (R50 G. Axe), regs, potions, and skinned for probably a couple thousand more in enchanting mats...while giving me several points in skills before he went down....I'd say that yeah, you were wasting your time. Yeah, I could have gotten killed, but my clan mates would have either revived me or watched my stuff until I got back. I COULD solo this mob, but MMORPGs are more fun with other people. While that mob was respawning, we went and killed others in the area, netting us some steedgrass, more weapons, regs and mats, and we didn't get bored grinding the same n00b mobs all day long with little to show for it. _______________________________________________________________________ Oh, and a last note - those other games out there with "monster" grinds actually had a mask for that grind be it in quests, changing scenery, new mob types, and plenty of other side activities to burn time with to cool off from the grind. In Darkfall, it's beat rocks, or beat mobs until you can beat people. That's not variety, that's called no content in spite of how large the world is. Crow all you want about finding new things to kill, or whatever else you want to suggest. End of the day, it's far more productive, simple, and safer to locate a nice, out-of-the-way spot with some simple mob using a rank 0 and whacking on them ad nauseam, and for those of us looking to really get into the killing [players], we want to minimize it as much as is humanly possible, and get it out of the way. There you go again, talking about killing n00b mons with rank 0 weapons. This is fine for your first few days....and from your post I'm starting to think you only played for a few days....but if you want real skill gains, you need to leave the n00b areas and fight something real. More and more in your wall of text I've seen examples of how you simply don't know what you are talking about. There's plenty of chaning scenery in Darkfall....you would have known that if you'd actually ridden around the looked. There are....fuck, countless different kinds of mobs, dungeons, cool areas to explore, players to fight, ships to sail, cities to attack, villages to capture, and other people to hang out with, duel, and just have a good time with. I think the REAL issue you have here is that there is no quest grind.....there's no NPC telling you what to do all day long, and THAT is what you consider "content". Don't get my blue response above wrong. I fought plenty of different mob types. When I quit, I'd gotten into farming Crypt Guards and Deadeyes for my solo skillups, with some Bonecrew Mariners/Captains mixed in. I was doing so with R40 or R50 weapons, depending on the speed at which I was going for (if I wanted more skillups, I may even use an R30 on the skeles, and if I wanted more gold/regs, R50). Prior to that, nearing the end of my month in the NEW clan, I had spent quite a few days, hours at a time, farming Mabria dungeon and the Greater Belows there. Making 10-15k gold or more an hour was absolutely nice for such a new character as myself, and got me quite far in a short time. The skillups weren't bad, either. This is a bit more productive. And it only took you a month to get there, eh?
But no, my issue isn't the lack of a quest grind, or an NPC telling me what to do. My issue is that I didn't play the game from day #1, so being on any degree of a level playing field would never have been my privilege in Darkfall. Instead, grinding PVE for 1-2 months is the standard before you can even think of being truly effective in any circumstance, except in slaughtering those even newer than yourself. My issue was that the players of the game itself - those hardest of hardcore; the tragic masochists who believe that grinding for 16 hour a day, and letting their PC run macros and AFK swimming for the other 7 (then setting their alarm to wake up and re-log their characters post-maintenance) are what set the standard for competition. No, those aren't the only players you'll have to fight in Darkfall, and when I met players that were around my "level", so to speak, I had some of the most fun in an MMO I've had in quite some time. However, that becomes so quickly decimated when even one guy with 400HP, and a few surging skills comes along. So, you got butthurt that someone stronger came along and you weren't top dog?? Just think, if instead of ragequitting you had stuck with the game, you'd be that much stronger now, and really enjoying some of the higher end content. I hate to tell ya man, but there's ALWAYS a bigger fish. No matter how long you play, there's going to be someone who can kill you. Either accept it, and realise it's the nature of the game, or roll in a group. Both, preferably. The fun in this game to me wasn't worth the frustration caused when hitting a player in BONE armor, 7-8 times with an R40 axe, and doing maybe 40% damage to him, only to have the guy turn around and whack my 250~ HP away in 3-4 hits with his R50 while I'm in scale or better. Nevermind that in mere seconds after killing me, those 400HP would be refilled by his macro'd up conversions and brew. The investment, mentally (being that wrapped up in it), and physically (in the number of hours to sit here and kill mob after mob) was simply more than I wished to participate in. You can try and debunk that with "logic" all you want, but I just wanted to enjoy the game's PVP as I knew I could with greater skills and stats. Whacking trees and rocks with my free time didn't appeal to me whatsoever, nor did wandering the wilderness for hours finding people to gank. The best this game had to offer for me was siege-related PVP, and clan warfare, both of which were scant at best due to players hiding out in their super-protected, safe little hovels. The game had grown utterly stagnant when I played. Once again, it is a shame that you didn't get to see what it's like to roll with a decent clan. That guy killing you would have been killed with a decent group of clannies at your back, and his gear would have been your gear. Also, it's too bad you cultivated such a defeatist attitude. Instead of getting pissed and quitting, a more productive course would have been to draw inspiration and motivation from your defeat. YOU could have been that guy, eventually. _______________________________________________________________________ Flame on and "defend" with your same, tired rebuttals. I'm done with you two, Wharg0ul and Agricola. And btw, that dumbass in the picture that you always love to post about "Nobody wants to lift no heavy-ass weights"... Yeah, neither did that guy. He used steroids, much like many of your DF heroes who've macro'd their fking balls off to get where they are. Any game where that becomes the acceptable norm for a year... eh, no sense going on. Good, because we're tired of listening to you rant and cry about things that you have no clue about. I honestly wouldn't have replied at all if you hadn't made such a tremendously blatant effort to discredit my knowledge or experience in the game. While playing, I did in fact know the ins and outs of the skills, their requirements, and their names. Having given the game little to no thought (other than to comically read these ridiculous threads) since then, I can't recall every detail of every skill. Your expectation of such a thing just shows how juvenile your attempts to discredit me truly are. "You don't know it's 'intensify hahahaaa you never played!!!1" Seriously, get real.
By the by, I'm not the one crying here. You guys are, because as I've stated previously, a cross word has been uttered about your precious. I'm merely here to discuss the most obvious, glaring issue I've ever seen with a game I actually enjoyed. I saw the potential to discuss it with some more open-minded individuals than yourself, and unfortunately you aim to make a fool of yourself, as always, by trying to cheapen the discussion with your usual poor rebuttals. Ah, yeah...whatever, man. If you chose to ignore the words and advice of an experienced player, all the while crying that you can't beat one in PVP....well, I think that about speaks for itself.
Whew...that wasn't a doozy at all. Glad the mental capacity for reading, understanding, and responding to a paragraph at a time isn't a mental stress for me.
For reference: My original reply in cool mint green, smallest text. Wharg0ul's response in: piss yellow, small text. My (this) reply in smarter than you blue and normal size (pretentiousness included!).
A side note: it doesn't take much time at all for me to conjure up a wall of text, so I don't want you to get some odd impression that you've somehow gotten to me because I take the time to respond. I'm finding the whole thing quite amusing, tbh, and just because you might have your feathers ruffled, doesn't mean that I do. All in good fun, for me at least. If you're personally offended by anything I've written here, Wharg0ul, feel free not to bother with a response, as I'm sure it would continue to prove little more than blind love for a thing - which is perfectly OK I suppose. Shouldn't preclude a discussion here about an issue that many people have had with this game, however, so just let be what will be if you can't add anything constructive.
Yeah, many of them do. We have some new guys who only have a couple of schools to 50, but they do fine in combat.
I'm perrrrrtty sure I covered that, if I chose to, I could've singly focused on melee/archery if I wanted, as well. It was never my intent to do so, and was not what I enjoyed most in Darkfall. I'm not looking to be competitive for the sake of it - I wanted to play the game as I chose. It's a sandbox, right?
When we fight other clans.....ah, the whole time we're in combat, or chasing them down killing their mounts. What ELSE would we be doing?? Shaking hands??"Bugs" know better than to come to Cairn thinking they can cockroach us. When enemies come to cairn, they come in a group, ready to fight. Props to clans such as DHW, and BKS, for giving us such intense, evenly matched battles. Always a pleasure to fight those guys.
Interesting. I was in Vengeance on Cairn when I played, after leaving NEW. At that time, that entire alliance was melting, and Vengeance itself was falling apart. Not being a part of their group before the issues, I had little to no clue of what was going on, and merely did my own thing the majority of the time I was there, with the exception being the several hours a night I'd group with the buddies I'd made previously (and followed to that clan in the first place). It was actually quite fun. The major downfall being the ganking crews that littered Cairn at times - Scare Bears I believe - while noone in the entire alliance could ever get their shit together enough to actually pose a threat to them. Not very good PVP if you ask me, being that it was always so extremely one-sided that I personally was never able to make enough a difference to matter, save for a few occasions.
We live so far away that once the group is wiped (if that happens) we're done with the raid. Often we just kill until we can't carry anymore, and recall home. We're fighting for most of the time, with small breaks to regroup, or to travel to another location. Not sure what point you're trying to make here.
Yup, this sounds familiar. Except, when you're the guy on the low end of the totem pole and get jacked up, and sent home early. Your "hours" of fun can end quickly to an random decap, and that was my point. Tough shit for that poor bastard in your group that it happens to huh.
There are a LOT of large clans in teh game that can field decent forces, man. Sorry you didn't get to experience something like this. My advice is that when looking for a clan to join, you do some research before hand, and make sure they are decent sized, active, and part of a fairly strong alliance. Being in a bad clan can be worse than no clan at all.
And here's the meat & potatoes of your entire argument against anything logistical about the game in the first place. The above is very enlightening as to why the game is amazing for some, and less for others. I had the joy of being in NEW while it was quite booming and enjoyable, and at the end of my time there, it'd gone to pot, with its primary leader - Clymene - taking off. That was just the start of a series of issues I watched during, and after (through communication with friends) my time there. Personally, as I just covered, I landed on Cairn myself, and had a not-very-fun experience with it. I actually did try to find a home at several other places, and could never find a clan that just didn't suck. I wish I had, but them's the breaks. Of course, you say research a bit, but research what? It's not like there's a list out there with ratings from suck to not suck to just go through. It's pretty much just try them and hope for the best.
Many of us don't actually WANT to PVP all day long. There are other things to do in the game. Many are not of a mind that because the game HAS PVP, that this is all that we should be doing 24/7.
And here's where we don't disagree at all. I never implied that PVP was all there was to do, nor that it's all I wanted to do. However, the "activities" in this game feel so forced at times because of just how tedious they are, and the time frames in which it requires to really accomplish anything make it that much worse.
The guild's SGs take care of the politics, which is as it should be. And as I've mentioned before, "random jackasses" don't come to Cairn. We get people who mean business down here....other wise it's just not worth the trip.
Covered that above, minus politics. I mean, honestly, a new player can just write the politics off as part of the game for them, until after quite some time then eh? Sorta sucks tbh, but that's another topic.
Ah, it "means" something to do. It's part of the content you claim the game doesn't have. As I mentioned, it's not all about PVP, 24 hours a day. Equipment wears out (or gets looted) and needs to be replaced. Regs get used up. Materials are needed to make more gear, and regs to cast spells. It's simply part of the game, and something to do. And if I happen to get a stat point or two while doing it, that much better.
I never minded farming in any game, and never had to even bother in this one, given that you get what you need as you grind your ass off to gain stats. I never even questioned how much fun the grind can be at times, and often just enjoyed grabbing a nice hot cup of coffee, and settling in talking with some folks on vent, or listening to music, or even grouping up for Raven Officers or something to that effect. However, my enjoyment of what was such the focus of these activities was always limited by my ability in PVP, particularly in the style I so longed to play - magic. I've said it before, and I'll say it again - melee in Darkfall sucks. I didn't enjoy it, and archery just isn't enough by itself to be a viable.
Yeah, I know. you havn't played in months. And yet you try to come off as such an authority on the current state of the game. I'm not the one who looks like an idiot here, pal. I actually know what I'm talking about, and the people on this site know that. I've given good, sound advice to many people here, and actually contribute to the community. What exactly have YOU done, other than cry and stomp your feet?? Maybe I AM a "fanboi"....but I sure as shit aren't "blind". I've never claimed Darkfall was perfect, and in fact I can list a few things that either need to be changed or downright suck (such as the chat tab system.....eeeeyuk!!), but I don't rant and rave on forums about it, and insult those who disagree with me.
So explain to me what, exactly, has drastically changed? So far as I've seen, these threads still appear to be the subject of much controversy, and the topic hasn't died down at all except with the lowered interest in DF on a whole. Outside of this recent spur of activity, I haven't heard or seen much of crap about the game, and actually have tried to keep up to date on what may, or may not be changing. That said, whether or not you fully agree, I probably have helped to steer some away from Darkfall, which before the $1 trial, would've required those players who wouldn't have enjoyed the game to waste $50. Outside of these threads and this silly argument, I'm plenty constructive elsewhere when I have something of value to say, and in fact, I'm trying to be constructive here, but a person like you just doesn't get the point, because you look through a haze at the things others have issues with, because they're not issues for you. I've never stomped my feet, or cried, and that you claim I insult as you don't just makes you a hypocrite. As far as I've seen, also, noone cares about the UI issues you probably have because they're either being addressed, or aren't a big enough issue to make someone quit over. The grind in Darkfall is something that people leave because of daily. That's a fact, not opinion.
Considering the mob I just killed dropped over 7k in gold, armor (full plate), weapons (R50 G. Axe), regs, potions, and skinned for probably a couple thousand more in enchanting mats...while giving me several points in skills before he went down....I'd say that yeah, you were wasting your time. Yeah, I could have gotten killed, but my clan mates would have either revived me or watched my stuff until I got back. I COULD solo this mob, but MMORPGs are more fun with other people.
Ah. Now you're just splitting hairs. "My way is better than yours!" you tout. Well, there's more than one way to skin a cat. I actually spent a very large amount of my time in DF in groups. I thoroughly enjoyed those times. However, when the people I enjoyed playing with weren't around, the options were highly limited, and my call for groups was generally met with "nah I'm busy". Those same folks were the ones on the bloodwall, macroing, or already skilled to the point where all they'd do is literally whack rocks or logs all day for stats until PVP showed up, at which point most of the time, they'd just ignore it. I mean, I'm with you on this one, but unfortunately it was usually more satisfying at those times to just go farm Kobolds or Crypt Guards to further my own goals.
While that mob was respawning, we went and killed others in the area, netting us some steedgrass, more weapons, regs and mats, and we didn't get bored grinding the same n00b mobs all day long with little to show for it.
Lovely, you gang-banged gatherers. Not the type of PVP that interests me. In the interest of production, certainly beats doing the gathering yourself, but just not that satisfying to me.
This is a bit more productive. And it only took you a month to get there, eh?
Oh wait, I'm not just a retard now? Unless you're being sarcastic, but your boasts of a kill that netted your group 7k would tend to make me believe otherwise. Yeah, I was totally nul and void of information before I joined Darkfall, and by the end of my first month, that's where I was, and what I was doing.
So, you got butthurt that someone stronger came along and you weren't top dog?? Just think, if instead of ragequitting you had stuck with the game, you'd be that much stronger now, and really enjoying some of the higher end content.
More misinterpretation. First of all, a well-known veteran player who perpetually ganked both solo and in groups on Cairn was raiding our city as part of a fairly well-organized group of mercenaries and some other small clans. As one of the handful of defenders at the time, I knew good and well the risk of trying to take the fella on, but saw the opportunity to get some unanswered hits on him while he was distracted with someone else. Sadly, the tards I was left with for help were too busy firing mana missiles or swinging starter weapons at the people down below the tower I was at, so no, even in my own clan's city I had no help - unless you count the ridiculously tiny pulses from guard towers. Secondly, and this is very important for your understanding, I didn't just up and ragequit. I actually had some technical issues with my PC which took me somewhere around 5 or 6 days of no computer use to get sorted. At the end of that time, I got my PC up and running (now on Win7 64bit, ftw), and had DF reinstalled, updated, and had even managed to recover my settings - prior to a format - for Darkfall so that my bindings, game settings, and bank were all as they should be. However, the few days away from the game made me realize how mechanical my playing had become, and how obsessed I'd become with trying to keep my character progressing as much as possible. It had kinda taken over all my free time, and I wasn't happy about that, and had already started finding more enjoyable things to [not] fill my mind with. To the point; I just flat out lost interest. I think I've explained in this thread, and past ones on the subject, just why.
I hate to tell ya man, but there's ALWAYS a bigger fish. No matter how long you play, there's going to be someone who can kill you. Either accept it, and realise it's the nature of the game, or roll in a group. Both, preferably.
You see, that's not my problem. I don't mind bigger "fish". I do mind feeling like a plankton amongst whales. People, like yourself, try to trivialize the difference that skill and stat levels make in this game, but I'm sorry, you're all full of crap. My one month character, at times, might just as well have been a level 30 vs. a level 80 in WoW. The time difference to go from being insignificant at the end of such a player's no-no side to being able to put up a fight is just too large, and the gap too big. The tedium of the process in getting there is just not fun enough to endure, either.
Once again, it is a shame that you didn't get to see what it's like to roll with a decent clan. That guy killing you would have been killed with a decent group of clannies at your back, and his gear would have been your gear.
Couldn't agree more. But, you should maybe understand a bit better why that wasn't the case, and you should also realize that your own experience in Darkfall is extremely subjective in your case because it's the exception, not the rule.
Also, it's too bad you cultivated such a defeatist attitude. Instead of getting pissed and quitting, a more productive course would have been to draw inspiration and motivation from your defeat. YOU could have been that guy, eventually.
You know, it may seem like I "cultivated a defeatist attitude", but the reality of it is that a few days away from DF merely gave me a "I don't really give a shit anymore" attitude. I'd rather not dedicate such a massive amount of time to such a thing unless the reward feels worthwhile, and in Darkfall, it just wasn't. I'd be find to just leave it at "for me" if it weren't for the reality that so many share my feelings about the subject. In fact, I actually really loved Darkfall, and its combat, and that's probably got more to do with why I even bother to post than anything. It's one of the most enjoyable combat systems in an MMO I've ever played. Sadly, to fully enjoy that system is just far too much work for what lies ahead, and that just lead to apathy for me, and a cancellation of my sub.
Ah, yeah...whatever, man. If you chose to ignore the words and advice of an experienced player, all the while crying that you can't beat one in PVP....well, I think that about speaks for itself.
All the player skill in the world can do nothing to prevent two spells in the back, simultaneously cast by a pair of gankers that take you from your already half health to none. There's also no way to always see that coming, all the time. Those types of deaths, while annoying, never got to me. Fending off raiders, and beating people down who I knew full-well were much further along in the game than myself was ultimately very satisfying. However, there's just a point where the gap is too large, and those are the players I had issues with. Knowing the eventuality of the game's design leading towards that just bothered me, and was something I didn't care to take part in by investing my time, and money, long term. Say what you want, but I've never seen such a grind-heavy game in all my years of playing them. At least, not for the reward given for the time you put in. You can debate that all day long, but the game doesn't have some deep, meaningful progression you guys love to talk about. It's progression for the sake of progression by and large, and IMO you'd have to be some degree of a masochist to really get into it as heavily as some.
@ ;Holden: That danger would be there with, or without the insane gap in skills. If you're out farming, and are low in stam/mana/whatever, the possibility for a gank to come along and take you out is always present. In large-scale PVP, the danger would be far greater given that everyone around you can take you down, not just the folks who've played 1000x longer than you. Any activity outside of specifically hunting for PVP would always carry that inherent danger because of the game's design. It doesn't need to be an elephant stepping on a mouse to be somehow more exciting.
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." George Bernard Shaw
What is a cynic? A man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing. Oscar Wilde
Just want to let you know, thats how a cap work in mortal online.
I wont state his name, but a player had manage to reach the stats cap with his main character and his alt in the beta.
First Toon
Str 100
Dex 79
Int 19
Psy 26
Con 97
This Toon
Str 80
Dex 87
Int 32
Psy 45
Con 76
Even if in MO, you could only had 1 character per account, you can still decide to put on decay mode the stats and skills you want, raise mode those you want or pause those you want, so changing style in MO is easy. Its fast to get our stats and skills up, but if you are red flagged pker, every time you die, you lose 10% of your total stats. This is done way better.
In darkfall, you got players who got 80-80-80-80-80-80 and minimum 50 to each. To reach those stats, you have to play for a year plus you had to macro since launch. Some who played for a year without macroing still got low stats compared to the macroers. So DF is really an endless grind and it will be a let down for the newcomers who wear looking for a pvp game.
When we fight other clans.....ah, the whole time we're in combat, or chasing them down killing their mounts. What ELSE would we be doing?? Shaking hands??"Bugs" know better than to come to Cairn thinking they can cockroach us. When enemies come to cairn, they come in a group, ready to fight. Props to clans such as DHW, and BKS, for giving us such intense, evenly matched battles. Always a pleasure to fight those guys.
Interesting. I was in Vengeance on Cairn when I played, after leaving NEW. At that time, that entire alliance was melting, and Vengeance itself was falling apart. Not being a part of their group before the issues, I had little to no clue of what was going on, and merely did my own thing the majority of the time I was there, with the exception being the several hours a night I'd group with the buddies I'd made previously (and followed to that clan in the first place). It was actually quite fun. The major downfall being the ganking crews that littered Cairn at times - Scare Bears I believe - while noone in the entire alliance could ever get their shit together enough to actually pose a threat to them. Not very good PVP if you ask me, being that it was always so extremely one-sided that I personally was never able to make enough a difference to matter, save for a few occasions.
For the most part, the old Cairn alliance has been wiped out or relocated. Most of DFWA moved over from Ruby, and became the new Cairn. Things are different now...Scare Bears and friends still come down, but now they get stomped unless they come down in the wee hours of the morning when there are very few defenders about. We've had some really good fights. Several clans tried to move down and take over the chaos city by Izkand, but we managed to push them out after a few days of camping the city with an alliance army. Some amazing battles though, man.
We live so far away that once the group is wiped (if that happens) we're done with the raid. Often we just kill until we can't carry anymore, and recall home. We're fighting for most of the time, with small breaks to regroup, or to travel to another location. Not sure what point you're trying to make here.
Yup, this sounds familiar. Except, when you're the guy on the low end of the totem pole and get jacked up, and sent home early. Your "hours" of fun can end quickly to an random decap, and that was my point. Tough shit for that poor bastard in your group that it happens to huh.
Yeah, it sucks to get decapped. Barring that though, we're really good about cross-healing and supporting each other in combat...and reviving people when needed. Working together as a team and knowing each other's weaknesses and strengths allows us to keep our numbers up and keep fighting longer than some. But we have mock battles in our cities, duels, and tournaments to train ourselves, and also we roll in groups a lot. This gives us an edge, and makes us better fighting as a unit. Some of the guys who are a little "lower on the totem pole" are watched more closely, and shielded up, buffed and healed when they get low, so we don't lose them in raids and battles. Sometimes a death cannot be avoided, but that is part of the game. There's another group waiting to pick them up back at home, and then they are off again.
There are a LOT of large clans in teh game that can field decent forces, man. Sorry you didn't get to experience something like this. My advice is that when looking for a clan to join, you do some research before hand, and make sure they are decent sized, active, and part of a fairly strong alliance. Being in a bad clan can be worse than no clan at all.
And here's the meat & potatoes of your entire argument against anything logistical about the game in the first place. The above is very enlightening as to why the game is amazing for some, and less for others. I had the joy of being in NEW while it was quite booming and enjoyable, and at the end of my time there, it'd gone to pot, with its primary leader - Clymene - taking off. That was just the start of a series of issues I watched during, and after (through communication with friends) my time there. Personally, as I just covered, I landed on Cairn myself, and had a not-very-fun experience with it. I actually did try to find a home at several other places, and could never find a clan that just didn't suck. I wish I had, but them's the breaks. Of course, you say research a bit, but research what? It's not like there's a list out there with ratings from suck to not suck to just go through. It's pretty much just try them and hope for the best.
By research I mean look at the political map, keep an eye on the NA1 clan discussion forums, look at their web site, look at their clan tab in-game. See who's making a lot of noise in the game. See who is repelling sieges, and who obviously has their shit together. Wait for an opening, and apply. I know how it can be.....I myself was involved in a couple of shitty clans before I transferred from the old EU server. The above was the formula I used for finding the clan I'm in now....which is one of the best clans I've been involved in, in ANY game.
Many of us don't actually WANT to PVP all day long. There are other things to do in the game. Many are not of a mind that because the game HAS PVP, that this is all that we should be doing 24/7.
And here's where we don't disagree at all. I never implied that PVP was all there was to do, nor that it's all I wanted to do. However, the "activities" in this game feel so forced at times because of just how tedious they are, and the time frames in which it requires to really accomplish anything make it that much worse.
Well, see......I consider myself fortunate if I have TIME to craft, or farm up mats / regs, or get some skilling up in. Like i said before, we get a LOT of PVP. Sometimes we get a lull of a couple days, and it's nice to get a group and go out to do some PVE....we don't grind the same mobs or mob camp, instead we ride around and hit several camps, then bind home and bank. It's a welcome break from hunting down raiding groups and defending our cities all the time.
The guild's SGs take care of the politics, which is as it should be. And as I've mentioned before, "random jackasses" don't come to Cairn. We get people who mean business down here....other wise it's just not worth the trip.
Covered that above, minus politics. I mean, honestly, a new player can just write the politics off as part of the game for them, until after quite some time then eh? Sorta sucks tbh, but that's another topic.
Yeah, pretty much. The leaders of the clans and alliances shape the world....just as it is in RL. Still fun to follow the power struggles and back-stabbing, and changes in alliegance etc. And it WILL affect your gaming. Who your neighbors and enemies are makes a big difference.
Ah, it "means" something to do. It's part of the content you claim the game doesn't have. As I mentioned, it's not all about PVP, 24 hours a day. Equipment wears out (or gets looted) and needs to be replaced. Regs get used up. Materials are needed to make more gear, and regs to cast spells. It's simply part of the game, and something to do. And if I happen to get a stat point or two while doing it, that much better.
I never minded farming in any game, and never had to even bother in this one, given that you get what you need as you grind your ass off to gain stats. I never even questioned how much fun the grind can be at times, and often just enjoyed grabbing a nice hot cup of coffee, and settling in talking with some folks on vent, or listening to music, or even grouping up for Raven Officers or something to that effect. However, my enjoyment of what was such the focus of these activities was always limited by my ability in PVP, particularly in the style I so longed to play - magic. I've said it before, and I'll say it again - melee in Darkfall sucks. I didn't enjoy it, and archery just isn't enough by itself to be a viable.
Ah, see the thing is to find BIG mobs that don't take much damage from magic....and pound on them. Granite golems make a nice big target, you can hit them from range, and their spells are really easy to dodge. The ones you don't dodge...meh, there's a point of reflex or rigor (etc) once in a while. Take a few hundred regs out and pound on the fuckers until you either run ut, or get bored. Then move on to something else for a while. The only part that REALLY sucks is leveling Intensify, since it goes up soooooo slow. The important thing is to not burn yourself out. If it's not fun anymore, go do something else.
Yeah, I know. you havn't played in months. And yet you try to come off as such an authority on the current state of the game. I'm not the one who looks like an idiot here, pal. I actually know what I'm talking about, and the people on this site know that. I've given good, sound advice to many people here, and actually contribute to the community. What exactly have YOU done, other than cry and stomp your feet?? Maybe I AM a "fanboi"....but I sure as shit aren't "blind". I've never claimed Darkfall was perfect, and in fact I can list a few things that either need to be changed or downright suck (such as the chat tab system.....eeeeyuk!!), but I don't rant and rave on forums about it, and insult those who disagree with me.
So explain to me what, exactly, has drastically changed? So far as I've seen, these threads still appear to be the subject of much controversy, and the topic hasn't died down at all except with the lowered interest in DF on a whole. Outside of this recent spur of activity, I haven't heard or seen much of crap about the game, and actually have tried to keep up to date on what may, or may not be changing. That said, whether or not you fully agree, I probably have helped to steer some away from Darkfall, which before the $1 trial, would've required those players who wouldn't have enjoyed the game to waste $50. Outside of these threads and this silly argument, I'm plenty constructive elsewhere when I have something of value to say, and in fact, I'm trying to be constructive here, but a person like you just doesn't get the point, because you look through a haze at the things others have issues with, because they're not issues for you. I've never stomped my feet, or cried, and that you claim I insult as you don't just makes you a hypocrite. As far as I've seen, also, noone cares about the UI issues you probably have because they're either being addressed, or aren't a big enough issue to make someone quit over. The grind in Darkfall is something that people leave because of daily. That's a fact, not opinion.
I'd have to say that you should read some of the recent patch notes, TBH. Also, a lot of former players have come back after realizing that MO is a steaming pile, and that DF is as good as it gets, for the niche it caters to. The population is increasing, and was even before the trials, and the game is just generally a lot more fun these days. The stagnant political situation has been shaken up, with massive changes in power and land control...leading to some great sieges and large battles.....and more frequently at that.
Now, you also mention here that you "probably have helped to steer some away from Darkfall, which before the $1 trial, would've required those players who wouldn't have enjoyed the game to waste $50"....which IMO, is pure bullshit. I find it pathetic to linger in a game's forum after one has quit and bitch and harp in thread after thread about what I didn't like about the game, in an effort to damage the image to potential players. YOU don't like it. Fine. let others make up their OWN minds about it. Everyone knows the old saying "Darkfall isn't for everyone"....it's not designed to cater to the mass-market audience. Just because YOU don't like something doesn't mean someone else will. I don't sit in the WoW forums all day bitching about the stuff I don't like about the game, and trying to steer away potential customers. For one, I've got better shit to do, like play the game I DO enjoy....and for two, I realise that other people's tastes are not my own. If I don't like something, I move on....I don't pretend to be "saving people $50" by trolling the game's forums. because let's face it, you're not really trying to save anyone $50....you're trying to DENY the game devs $50 because your bitter that the game wasn't what you wanted it to be. Lingering in a game's forum interjecting your negativity into threads in the hopes of scaring away customers is a form of trolling, and I'm glad you came right out and admitted that this is what you were doing.
While that mob was respawning, we went and killed others in the area, netting us some steedgrass, more weapons, regs and mats, and we didn't get bored grinding the same n00b mobs all day long with little to show for it.
Lovely, you gang-banged gatherers. Not the type of PVP that interests me. In the interest of production, certainly beats doing the gathering yourself, but just not that satisfying to me.
You mis-understood me. I meant other MOBS. We own the entire island of Cairn, there are no gatherers we can kill without killing alliance members. We go to the mainland for that
I hate to tell ya man, but there's ALWAYS a bigger fish. No matter how long you play, there's going to be someone who can kill you. Either accept it, and realise it's the nature of the game, or roll in a group. Both, preferably.
You see, that's not my problem. I don't mind bigger "fish". I do mind feeling like a plankton amongst whales. People, like yourself, try to trivialize the difference that skill and stat levels make in this game, but I'm sorry, you're all full of crap. My one month character, at times, might just as well have been a level 30 vs. a level 80 in WoW. The time difference to go from being insignificant at the end of such a player's no-no side to being able to put up a fight is just too large, and the gap too big. The tedium of the process in getting there is just not fun enough to endure, either.
No, I've never tried to trivialize it, actually. I will fully admit that skills make a big difference. What I try to tell people (teach people) is that solo killing little n00b mobs all day, for months, is NOT the way to make real progress. I give tips and advice for skilling up quickly, and for focusing on certain skills in order to be able to contribute to group PVP faster, and later to be able to do better in solo PVP situations. When people talk about having to "grind for six months", I try to educate them on the ways to get things done much sooner. Some people around here simply refuse to admit or believe that there IS a faster way, but they are just trolling, and trying to make the game sound like a bigger grind than it actually is. We've ALWAYS had troll problems in this forum, and recently almost every post around here was positive, made by people playing the game who enjoyed it. Then suddenly a new group of trolls sprouted up all bitching about "the unBEARable grind!!!111!11! ", and no amount of explaining the quick ways to accomplish tings helps. They are here to troll, nothing more.
Ah, yeah...whatever, man. If you chose to ignore the words and advice of an experienced player, all the while crying that you can't beat one in PVP....well, I think that about speaks for itself.
All the player skill in the world can do nothing to prevent two spells in the back, simultaneously cast by a pair of gankers that take you from your already half health to none. There's also no way to always see that coming, all the time. Those types of deaths, while annoying, never got to me. Fending off raiders, and beating people down who I knew full-well were much further along in the game than myself was ultimately very satisfying. However, there's just a point where the gap is too large, and those are the players I had issues with. Knowing the eventuality of the game's design leading towards that just bothered me, and was something I didn't care to take part in by investing my time, and money, long term. Say what you want, but I've never seen such a grind-heavy game in all my years of playing them. At least, not for the reward given for the time you put in. You can debate that all day long, but the game doesn't have some deep, meaningful progression you guys love to talk about. It's progression for the sake of progression by and large, and IMO you'd have to be some degree of a masochist to really get into it as heavily as some.
True, but even veteran players will die from that. Especially considering the fact that a lot of the guys who raid Cairn like to pre-surge their spells before coming down. Yes, sometimes you're the windshield, sometimes you're the bug. That said, I've seen FAR worse grinds in other games.....SWG comes to mind, as well as pre-SL Anarchy Online. Darkfall is designed for that "old-school MMORPG" feeling, it's something for those of us who enjoyed the genre before quest grinding and the race to level cap. Back when you'd get a group of players and kill some mobs at a camp for loot and XP, without needing an NPC to tell you to. Games were a LOT more social back then, you didn't have everyone running around doing their solo quests all day, and people weren't in a hurry to reach "end game". You logged in, and played the game....you went where adventure led you, and met some cool people in the process. Most of these games have since either faded into the great MMORPG graveyard, or undergone radical changes in the effort to attract players of the wow-mentality....which left nothing for the rest of us to play. Darkfall is a GIFT to the old-school. It's not the perfect game, but it's about all we have now, and personally, I fuckin' LOVE it. I was about to give up on MMORPGs entirely before I bought it one early morning, after pressing F5 on the "store" site, waiting for a change to grab a key before they sold out. No other game can hold my attention....nothing has any challenge, or sense of progress. It's all "quest grind here for X levels, then quest grind there for X levels", while following a pre-designed character class, path, and story. BLAH!!!
So explain to me what, exactly, has drastically changed? So far as I've seen, these threads still appear to be the subject of much controversy, and the topic hasn't died down at all except with the lowered interest in DF on a whole. Outside of this recent spur of activity, I haven't heard or seen much of crap about the game, and actually have tried to keep up to date on what may, or may not be changing. That said, whether or not you fully agree, I probably have helped to steer some away from Darkfall, which before the $1 trial, would've required those players who wouldn't have enjoyed the game to waste $50. Outside of these threads and this silly argument, I'm plenty constructive elsewhere when I have something of value to say, and in fact, I'm trying to be constructive here, but a person like you just doesn't get the point, because you look through a haze at the things others have issues with, because they're not issues for you. I've never stomped my feet, or cried, and that you claim I insult as you don't just makes you a hypocrite. As far as I've seen, also, noone cares about the UI issues you probably have because they're either being addressed, or aren't a big enough issue to make someone quit over. The grind in Darkfall is something that people leave because of daily. That's a fact, not opinion.Now, you also mention here that you "probably have helped to steer some away from Darkfall, which before the $1 trial, would've required those players who wouldn't have enjoyed the game to waste $50"....which IMO, is pure bullshit. I find it pathetic to linger in a game's forum after one has quit and bitch and harp in thread after thread about what I didn't like about the game, in an effort to damage the image to potential players. YOU don't like it. Fine. let others make up their OWN minds about it. Everyone knows the old saying "Darkfall isn't for everyone"....it's not designed to cater to the mass-market audience. Just because YOU don't like something doesn't mean someone else will. I don't sit in the WoW forums all day bitching about the stuff I don't like about the game, and trying to steer away potential customers. For one, I've got better shit to do, like play the game I DO enjoy....and for two, I realise that other people's tastes are not my own. If I don't like something, I move on....I don't pretend to be "saving people $50" by trolling the game's forums. because let's face it, you're not really trying to save anyone $50....you're trying to DENY the game devs $50 because your bitter that the game wasn't what you wanted it to be. Lingering in a game's forum interjecting your negativity into threads in the hopes of scaring away customers is a form of trolling, and I'm glad you came right out and admitted that this is what you were doing.
Well, if you check my post history, I've never "trolled" anyone, or directly aimed to steer anyone away from Darkfall. The fact of the matter is, I merely admitted that perhaps my posts might've had that effect before. Now, with the $1 trial, there's no risk involved in giving it a shot, so any and everyone who has any interest should give it a go. Don't get me wrong man, I was just saying my posts probably had that effect, and potentially the folks who were influenced by my information (which is never MIS-information - just posts on my personal experience in DF) were perhaps grateful. I'm not aiming to bitterly deny DF devs $50. The opposite is true here, really, in that I'd rather a person who is looking to jump in and PVP not be confused before wasting their $50, and plenty of people have expected that of DF and been disappointed. Honestly, if not for how some people mis-represent the game, I'd never even bother to post, but unfortunately you and Agricola manage to inject far too much opinion into your "Come to DF!" posts that it's impossible to sit by and watch sometimes.
True, but even veteran players will die from that. Especially considering the fact that a lot of the guys who raid Cairn like to pre-surge their spells before coming down. Yes, sometimes you're the windshield, sometimes you're the bug. That said, I've seen FAR worse grinds in other games.....SWG comes to mind, as well as pre-SL Anarchy Online. Darkfall is designed for that "old-school MMORPG" feeling, it's something for those of us who enjoyed the genre before quest grinding and the race to level cap. Back when you'd get a group of players and kill some mobs at a camp for loot and XP, without needing an NPC to tell you to. Games were a LOT more social back then, you didn't have everyone running around doing their solo quests all day, and people weren't in a hurry to reach "end game". You logged in, and played the game....you went where adventure led you, and met some cool people in the process. Most of these games have since either faded into the great MMORPG graveyard, or undergone radical changes in the effort to attract players of the wow-mentality....which left nothing for the rest of us to play. Darkfall is a GIFT to the old-school. It's not the perfect game, but it's about all we have now, and personally, I fuckin' LOVE it. I was about to give up on MMORPGs entirely before I bought it one early morning, after pressing F5 on the "store" site, waiting for a change to grab a key before they sold out. No other game can hold my attention....nothing has any challenge, or sense of progress. It's all "quest grind here for X levels, then quest grind there for X levels", while following a pre-designed character class, path, and story. BLAH!!
I'll just say thanks, for finally posting a response with your emotion left out of it for the most part. You have to take an objective look at the game, leaving your own "OMG BEST GAME EVAR" at the door sometimes. Make no mistake about it - I thoroughly enjoyed DF while I played, and still have fond memories for the just under 2 months I was there. I didn't ragequit, and I didn't quit with bad feelings towards the game or its players. I merely lost interest after realizing what the game had become for me, driven by my own competitive nature. I'm just not the type of person to be the bug for so long before I get to be the windshield (and I don't even have interest in beingthe windshield, either). It doesn't mean I want things "now now NEOW!!", I just didn't care for the disparity between a "noob" and a "vet". It's a big turnoff, regardless of the time taken to get from A to B. And really, as I think more about it, I was probably sickened by what I faced ahead of me to have viable magic skills after the rather extreme amount of effort I'd already put forth in getting to where I was. Call it burnout if you want, but the carrot was just too far away to even bother being interested in it anymore. I just wasn't interested in burning play-time whacking on trees just so my sub-par health would finally go up, even after a dedicated month and a week almost entirely in melee.
On that note, I generally enjoy crafting, but the gathering really just killed it for me here. I mean, it was literally go out in a robe/naked, carry an axe/pick, find a node, click, and wait for 10 minutes. Rinse, repeat until you're too scared to carry on and go bank (and to be productive would require several hours a day of this to expect any real results). To make matters worse, mining and logging were (an I can only assume still are) the best method for stat gains. My vitality was depressingly low for the time I'd spent (as noted, my health never passed 260 with nearly 2 months, and 96 or 97 Gaxe skill, and I'm not much of an AFK swimmer) so it certainly didn't help matters that whacking a freaking rock surpassed the risk involved with grinding in terms of which was more productive to gain health. Also as I've covered now (and you seemingly understand), my clans all sucked in terms of player ability, activity level in the guild, and overall attitude. The only people I really enjoyed playing and grouping with were buds from NEW who I'd tagged along with up to that point, one of whom was on a schedule I couldn't keep pace with, and the other who just wasn't around enough. As much as anything that was indeed what helped drive my interest south. Regardless, the mountain of effort I felt I put into the game, and the dirt pile of a reward (in the way of the stats I had) really just dampened my will to play to the point I just quit. TBH, I think the nail in the coffin was one of the last days I finally did log in, and spent around 6 or so hours (total, counting breaks, bank time, etc.) grinding melee on Crypt Guards, only to gain 1 HP off a strength point. It's really, really difficult not to get caught up in just how atrocious that is when you really take a step back and examine it (especially when you just don't give a shit about the folks you're playing with).
At any rate, I think I've said all I can say on the subject. Thrilled that DFO has gone well for you, and I do wish the game and its players the best, but it's just a world I don't think I want any part of. It's a shame, really, because the combat was so addictive and fun for what it was, and players like myself are still left in the lurch, waiting for a game of this style to come along that doesn't require an enormous time investment before you can really start having fun where the game really shines - the PVP. That's really the only reason I even bother to pay attention to the DF boards - there's just nothing else out there like it, and tab target 1,2,3 lost its appeal a while back now.
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." George Bernard Shaw
What is a cynic? A man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing. Oscar Wilde
In Darkfall the importance of damage output is as follows
Mastery > Weapon Rank > Resistances (Armor) > Player Skill (Situational Damage) > Stat
Since skill mastery is not hard to get and since there are no restrictions in use of armor and weapons from day 1 , the discussion in these topic is misleading.
What was you mastery , what rank weapon you used and what armor did you wear ?
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Originally posted by Psalms If they make the game any easier to lvl, i dont know if i would keep playing
I was just enjoying laughing at this thread until I see this sentiment repeated so often...
...doesn't this just speak loads about Darkfall in so few words? The OP said it in that a vet practically maxed out his character and got bored (and that he himself would lose interest without it). Several others have echoed the same in that they'd quit without the grind (Hey Agricola!). I mean, that pretty much says it all about the state of the game and its current players, now doesn't it? I'd elaborate, but it's another wall of text noone would read, and besides, I think a little thought into what that really means should say all it needs to.
Doesn't say anything about the state of the game, actually. These are the kinds of people who enjoy a sense of accomplishment, and progress.
You can find them in every game. they usually have 3 or 4 alts, most max level, if not all. they enjoy the act of progressing.
Of course in Darkfall, you can only have one character, so once a character was totally maxxed out in every skill, there would be little for them to do, character-wise.
Thankfully, there are....a fuckload of skills the game. It would take ages to max them all out, especially without macroing.
This should keep them busy for a long while.
Man, you just miss the point on purpose, don't you? That's why you can't leave anything to personal interpretation without a massive explanation when it involves you guys, and even then you just don't get it because you keep your blinders on.
Look. The PVP in Darkfall is outstanding. On the flipside, the content is completely and utterly nil. The point of what I was quoting is that game currently fails on such a fundamental level because it's ... and this is a big one ... COUNTER-INTUITIVE. The people currently playing can mask their logic in defending the grind as "it's an accomplishment" or "we should have an advantage" or whatever excuse they please. The reality of it is that, as I pointed out for you - these very same people would vanish without the grind, and those that make it there eventually fade out and leave.
Let's examine why, and why I used such a big, hyphenated word up yonder. PVP
Yup, pvp. Know what the problem with the game is? Reach a point, and the challenge is gone. Why? Everyone who hasn't played more than 6+ months and/or doesn't smell like a possum can't possibly compete with them. Don't kid yourself and pretend it isn't the case. The reality is that being that much stronger than your opponents is only entertaining for so long. Go play your favorite single-player game, then turn the cheats on. You'll yee-haw it up for a bit, then you'll just say "meh" and move on. Meanwhile, what's this guy who has reached the top going to do? Farm? Pfft. By then he's likely got everything he'll ever want or need to go slaughter "noobs" all day (see earlier sentence for under 6 months definition of noob). There's no longer any motivation.
"So why, Shiymmas, does reducing the grind help?"
Again, I'll reference that big word up near the top... C O U N T E R - I N T U I T I V E*spoken with a deep, echoey voice
You can't PVP if you're out grinding, unless some random ganker finds you in which, by the very nature of the gank, you're going to die, and meanwhile you can't successfully PVP without grinding. You can try to find PVP if you'd like by going out and hunting players, but personally having tried this in Darkfall, mounted up in a team of 5, it's actually much, much harder than you might think to find enemies, other than actually raiding a player-built city or hamlet. So, you're essentially left with sieges to look forward to, which in my experience (notice the bold; it may not apply to everyone), happen once every few days and, at best, maybe twice on a weekend. The "sieges" I saw involved little more than 20-30 players on each side, and ended rather quickly (under 1hr is pretty damn fast).
I mean, if common sense hasn't sunk in by now, I'm not sure that someone doesn't need to be shipped to your house in a box, only for you to open it and have a midget whack you upside the head with a miniature steel mallet. Afterward, aside from being cross-eyed, you may finally realize that if people didn't have to spend so much Goddamn time grinding (or at least feel extremely compelled to do so by any PVPer's competitive nature) there'd be far more people actually.... TADA!!!! PVP'ING! WOOHOOO!!!
Imagine it! Sieges every day.. sometimes multiple times per day! Imagine that farming actually MEANT something (they could damn sure speed that up too, now that the world will be crawling with far more folks looking to .. PVP!) and that you actually faced more danger than the random, brave PK encroaching on your super-cozy PVE-haven of a player-built city! God forbid you have to .. gasp .. pay attention while doing so!
Come on guys. There's an extremely bright lining to Darkfall if some serious adjustments would take place, and you shouldn't need a freaking poll or some other empirical evidence to point that out for you. Sure, keep some grind there so new folk have to really earn their skills. One to two months tops for a hardcore player to get a maxed out magic school (I'm talking mastery to 75+ here, not just 100 of the school itself) with their 2h of choice and archery up there with some witches brew would be more than acceptable. In that same time frame, 300+ HP wouldn't hurt. NOW you'd have a game on your hands where things meant more than just time invested. I mean, any dumbshit can sit around whacking trees all day, farming goblins non-stop with rank 0s and eventually become a PVP god regardless of how horrifyingly bad a player they are (I've seen these types, and I've beaten them {within the very clans I joined while playing} but I've also watched them utterly rape the average schmo just because they have the skills/stats to back up their horrifying flaws as a player). That shouldn't be the basis on which you value your character, at least not in a ... yup, P V P GAME. Get a clue.
Oh, and a last note - those other games out there with "monster" grinds actually had a mask for that grind be it in quests, changing scenery, new mob types, and plenty of other side activities to burn time with to cool off from the grind. In Darkfall, it's beat rocks, or beat mobs until you can beat people. That's not variety, that's called no content in spite of how large the world is. Crow all you want about finding new things to kill, or whatever else you want to suggest. End of the day, it's far more productive, simple, and safer to locate a nice, out-of-the-way spot with some simple mob using a rank 0 and whacking on them ad nauseam, and for those of us looking to really get into the killing [players], we want to minimize it as much as is humanly possible, and get it out of the way.
Flame on and "defend" with your same, tired rebuttles. I'm done with you two, Wharg0ul and Agricola. And btw, that dumbass in the picture that you always love to post about "Nobody wants to lift no heavy-ass weights"... Yeah, neither did that guy. He used steroids, much like many of your DF heroes who've macro'd their fking balls off to get where they are. Any game where that becomes the acceptable norm for a year... eh, no sense going on.
+1 this coming from someone that would like to try it but WILL NOT sit through a pve grind as such. If they took some of the pve grind out, cracked down on hackers and botters I would be interested in trying the game. Til these 2 things are addressed I'd imagine many will take the same stance.
Tbh I get the impression that many of the vets simply want to protect their advantage/leverage or whatever else you want to call it. Think about what the quoted post says "more pvp in a pvp game" how can that be bad? Never understood how hardcore pvpers would defend a bunk pve grind that isn't even hidden.
ROFL! If anyone has ever played on a NON-SANCTIONED Ultima Online server then you may think this thread looks familiar. It has been posted 10M+ times on every one of those shard boards.
Different game, same crap.
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Comments
As far as I understand, stats don't make that much of a difference. If you have 40 strength for example and you're going against someone with 100 strength, they will do 6 more damage per hit with their 60 point advantage. It's an edge, but not an insurmountable one by any measure.
Things like bubble chat would be dead giveaways as to where you are, which would be bad. There are player run vendors on houses.
The one point where I think you're right is when you say this debate will never end.
Hehe, as soon as AV will reduce a grind time all those whiners will leave DF "for something new". And veterans will leave it as well. And what AV will get? There are alotta players who like grind and play DF. There are alotta whiners who don't play DF but promise that they "perhaps will if there won't be this and that". And whom AV should chose? For me it's a stupid question because answer is obvious: AV should chose whiners and lose everything...
@ Shiymmas
"bunch of stuff...
Let's examine why, and why I used such a big, hyphenated word up yonder. PVP
Yup, pvp. Know what the problem with the game is? Reach a point, and the challenge is gone. Why? Everyone who hasn't played more than 6+ months and/or doesn't smell like a possum can't possibly compete with them. Don't kid yourself and pretend it isn't the case. The reality is that being that much stronger than your opponents is only entertaining for so long. Go play your favorite single-player game, then turn the cheats on. You'll yee-haw it up for a bit, then you'll just say "meh" and move on. Meanwhile, what's this guy who has reached the top going to do? Farm? Pfft. By then he's likely got everything he'll ever want or need to go slaughter "noobs" all day (see earlier sentence for under 6 months definition of noob). There's no longer any motivation.
bunch more stuff..."
That was one impressive wall of text…holy cripes.
And I hate to poop on it, but the basis for your entire thesis, that being your hypothesis as to why me and many others would get bored in this game after maxxing out our character, is wrong.
I don’t care if there was massive PvP going on every 38 seconds. I don’t care if there was enough PvE to put EQ 1, 2, and yet to be released EQ 3 to shame. None of that stuff would really matter to me if my character stopped growing, stopped gaining skills/stats/power. Again, character progression to me is one of the “pillars” of mmorpg game design. One of the basic reasons I play is to improve my character. When my character stops growing in the game world then I lose interest in playing regardless if 99% of the entire player base is right there with me to provide non-stop PvP or not.
To be honest, if anything I’d think the exact opposite would be true. If I’d put in all that hard work and finally maxxed out my character along with only about 1% of the player base, I would expect to be on top of the mountain and would enjoy being able to beat the piss out of just about everyone out there in 1 vs 1…and maybe even 1 vs 2 or 3. I’d love being a key figure in the large sieges able to rack up a large body count and be one of the heros of the battle. I do think it would suck if I’d made it all the way to the top only to find out that I was now just an average Joe on part with most of the player base…to me that would suck after all the work I put in.
Having said that, I would enjoy that for a short time and the fact that my actions were no longer doing anything to improve my character in some way would drive me away from the game.
Anyway, just wanted to let you know that I think your hypethesis, while well thought-out and explained, is completely wrong in my view.
@ Kasmos-
Dude, you’re starting to sway me.
I think the main reason I disagreed with your idea to begin with was that based on your plan I envisioned a very, very fine line between those 2-month players vs the 1-year players. Reading more it seems you’d still have a pretty sizable gap in overall power between the two, but at least a 2-monther would have a prayer against a real bad 1-year vet instead of getting rolled in two hits or something. Even a 6-monther up to 8 or so would have a definitive gap in power but they would at least have the ability to compete and if they were great PvPers they could take down an average 1-year vet.
Is this closer to what you are suggesting? If yes, I could get behind something like this.
The important thing is that there needs to be visible separation there which, sure would be smoothed out over time (ie the difference between say a 1-year vet vs a 2-year vet down the road would not be nearly as great as the difference between a 2-month player vs the 1-year player).
Anyway, if I have that right at some level I could see how this may make the game more attractive for those people who want to be a little more competitive earlier on, but it still leaves a power gap there that makes it worthwhile for those vets or players who put in more time and work on their characters and deserve to have some kind of advantage in player skills/stats vs others.
Ya, I think that might be a good thing for the game. Again, the tricky part is achieving that balance that would make both parties somewhat happy.
JordanJax, you have my utmost respect for actually discussing and addressing what I have been advocating, unlike certain other people in this thread that continue to dodge even MENTIONING anything about non-linear stat benefit gain (and then acting like they actually have talked about it haha) and instead decide to throw petty insults around and act like what I'm advocating would turn the game to a strict FPS (lol) or carebear land (even more lol).
But yes, you have the right understanding of what I'm advocating, as do a lot of other people on the official forums that have it linked in their signature to show their support. This system would keep the time and effort it takes to reach max level the exact same, would still provide VERY noticeable benefits and advantages to veterans that have played a long time and put many hours in, but would get newer people to the point of being able to at least defend themselves against a veteran within about 3-4 months of playing casually.
However, in order to get into the top tier of players in terms of character progression, it would take that 3-4 month old character at LEAST another year. I think it's a win-win situation for everyone; the veterans keep a very noticeable advantage and sense of accomplishment, and the newer player doesn't get discouraged early on and doesn't have to spend his entire time in game his first few months "focus training".
Again, thanks for actually having a discussion on a, well, discussion forum, and I'm glad that you don't have impenetrable blinders on like some people in this thread and can see the potential good that this concept would bring to the world of Agon.
/salute
*edit - And yes, it would have to be balanced, but it wouldn't be that difficult to do, as long as you keep the "veteran advantages" high enough to have veterans want to work for them (i.e. ~100 extra hip points, or ~100 extra mana, etc).
Based on Agricola's responses to you Kasmos, I get the impression he hasn't even read what you are proposing. Or at the very least does not understand it...
This thread is hilarious. I find it funny that the PvP is so much better and more evenly matched on the forums than it is in game.
You obviously either have absolutely no idea what that graph is trying to represent, or haven't even taken the time to look at it or look at my explanations. You didn't answer how it would do anything negative towards Darkfall, you didn't answer how it would take away what veterans have earned, and you didn't answer how it would turn it into a strict FPS. As I figured, you didn't answer anything and instead resulted to insults and misrepresentations of what I'm advocating as I figured you'd do.
I don't want to speed up character progression, I want to change the way that stats affect your character, leaving how long it takes to increase a stat point exactly the way it is now. If you had read what I wrote or taken more then 2 seconds to look at that graph, you'd have realized this, but by your posts you obviously have absolutely no clue what I'm talking about, or have such strong blinders on that you refuse to acknowledge it. Show me where in this thread you addressed non-linear stat benefit gain? You haven't even talked about it once! All you've done is try to insult and belittle me, and misrepresent what I've been advocating all along all the while saying that you actually have addressed it.
At least JordanJax above this post did what I asked of him and actually discussed what I have been advocating in this thread, i.e. non-linear stat benefit gain, and guess what, after first disagreeing with me, he now understands what I'm advocating and... *GASP* thinks it could be a good idea! Unless you're going to do the same and actually discuss what I've been asking you to discuss for, oh, about 4 posts now, don't even bother replying to this post.
Doesn't say anything about the state of the game, actually. These are the kinds of people who enjoy a sense of accomplishment, and progress.
You can find them in every game. they usually have 3 or 4 alts, most max level, if not all. they enjoy the act of progressing.
Of course in Darkfall, you can only have one character, so once a character was totally maxxed out in every skill, there would be little for them to do, character-wise.
Thankfully, there are....a fuckload of skills the game. It would take ages to max them all out, especially without macroing.
This should keep them busy for a long while.
Man, you just miss the point on purpose, don't you? That's why you can't leave anything to personal interpretation without a massive explanation when it involves you guys, and even then you just don't get it because you keep your blinders on.
Look. The PVP in Darkfall is outstanding. On the flipside, the content is completely and utterly nil. The point of what I was quoting is that game currently fails on such a fundamental level because it's ... and this is a big one ... COUNTER-INTUITIVE. The people currently playing can mask their logic in defending the grind as "it's an accomplishment" or "we should have an advantage" or whatever excuse they please. The reality of it is that, as I pointed out for you - these very same people would vanish without the grind, and those that make it there eventually fade out and leave.
Let's examine why, and why I used such a big, hyphenated word up yonder. PVP
Yup, pvp. Know what the problem with the game is? Reach a point, and the challenge is gone. Why? Everyone who hasn't played more than 6+ months and/or doesn't smell like a possum can't possibly compete with them. Don't kid yourself and pretend it isn't the case. The reality is that being that much stronger than your opponents is only entertaining for so long. Go play your favorite single-player game, then turn the cheats on. You'll yee-haw it up for a bit, then you'll just say "meh" and move on. Meanwhile, what's this guy who has reached the top going to do? Farm? Pfft. By then he's likely got everything he'll ever want or need to go slaughter "noobs" all day (see earlier sentence for under 6 months definition of noob). There's no longer any motivation.
So what you're saying is that all the people you feel compelled to "compete" with don't actually play the game, since they left from boredom? LoL?? This is quite a....failure of logic, I think.
Not to mention the fact that I play the game every day with a clan....fuck, an full alliance of these "maxxed out characters" and nobody seems bored. Odd. It seems experience and the reality of the game have left little water for your "argument" to hold. It might be true if vets only fought n00bs, as you seem to imply, but that's simply not the case.
"So why, Shiymmas, does reducing the grind help?"
Again, I'll reference that big word up near the top... C O U N T E R - I N T U I T I V E *spoken with a deep, echoey voice
You can't PVP if you're out grinding, unless some random ganker finds you in which, by the very nature of the gank, you're going to die, and meanwhile you can't successfully PVP without grinding. You can try to find PVP if you'd like by going out and hunting players, but personally having tried this in Darkfall, mounted up in a team of 5, it's actually much, much harder than you might think to find enemies, other than actually raiding a player-built city or hamlet. So, you're essentially left with sieges to look forward to, which in my experience (notice the bold; it may not apply to everyone), happen once every few days and, at best, maybe twice on a weekend. The "sieges" I saw involved little more than 20-30 players on each side, and ended rather quickly (under 1hr is pretty damn fast).
And why can't you PVP if you're out "grinding"?? You don't think PVP comes to us while we're out working on magic skills, then I've got news for ya. And more than just a random ganker, buddy. See, we do something intelligent....something these games are meant for. We play in GROUPS. Random gankers get ganked. Often they bring friends as a result, and a battle results.
We don't often need to go looking for PVP, it usually comes to us. But on the occasions we do, we don't have any problem finding it. Hell , we can just load up onto rafts and head to ruby, and PVP for hours on end. We can use a house or runes to get pretty much ahywhere, and just ride around....we find plenty of fights. As soon as we start ganking other groups of players, the local cities start sending out troops. Fun for all.
And....when a siege happens, more than 20-30 players from our CLAN ALONE go to fight, and let's not forget that there are several other very good clans in our alliance who also all send troops. The enemy knows that we will show up in force, so they do as well, plus hiring of merc clans....you can see where this is going.
The reality of the situation, and the state of the game, simply don't support your little argument, once again.
I mean, if common sense hasn't sunk in by now, I'm not sure that someone doesn't need to be shipped to your house in a box, only for you to open it and have a midget whack you upside the head with a miniature steel mallet. Afterward, aside from being cross-eyed, you may finally realize that if people didn't have to spend so much Goddamn time grinding (or at least feel extremely compelled to do so by any PVPer's competitive nature) there'd be far more people actually.... TADA!!!! PVP'ING! WOOHOOO!!!
This is just a comical little paragraph that made me laugh. Thanks for that.
Imagine it! Sieges every day.. sometimes multiple times per day! Imagine that farming actually MEANT something (they could damn sure speed that up too, now that the world will be crawling with far more folks looking to .. PVP!) and that you actually faced more danger than the random, brave PK encroaching on your super-cozy PVE-haven of a player-built city! God forbid you have to .. gasp .. pay attention while doing so!
If farming didn't MEAN something, people wouldn't do it. You don't think it MEANS something to farm, I'd like to introduce you to my Keened Justicebringer some time.
And enemy clans want these spawns. We fight them off on a regular basis. Yet another example of how PVP happens...contrary to your little rant.
Come on guys. There's an extremely bright lining to Darkfall if some serious adjustments would take place, and you shouldn't need a freaking poll or some other empirical evidence to point that out for you. Sure, keep some grind there so new folk have to really earn their skills. One to two months tops for a hardcore player to get a maxed out magic school (I'm talking mastery to 75+ here, not just 100 of the school itself) with their 2h of choice and archery up there with some witches brew would be more than acceptable.
Ummm....it doesn't even take that long, if you're not just hunting n00b mobs and whining on forums. And by the way, magic schools don't have "mastery". You get intensify at 100, but there is no mastery. Further proof that you really don't know what you are talking about.
In that same time frame, 300+ HP wouldn't hurt. NOW you'd have a game on your hands where things meant more than just time invested. I mean, any dumbshit can sit around whacking trees all day, farming goblins non-stop with rank 0s and eventually become a PVP god regardless of how horrifyingly bad a player they are (I've seen these types, and I've beaten them {within the very clans I joined while playing} but I've also watched them utterly rape the average schmo just because they have the skills/stats to back up their horrifying flaws as a player). That shouldn't be the basis on which you value your character, at least not in a ... yup, P V P GAME. Get a clue.
Ummm....what?? How do you expect to get any skills on goblins when they die in 1 hit?? You want to hunt mobs that take a while to kill, to maximise your gains.....and maybe something that drops some useful loot.....get a clue.
Oh, and a last note - those other games out there with "monster" grinds actually had a mask for that grind be it in quests, changing scenery, new mob types, and plenty of other side activities to burn time with to cool off from the grind. In Darkfall, it's beat rocks, or beat mobs until you can beat people. That's not variety, that's called no content in spite of how large the world is. Crow all you want about finding new things to kill, or whatever else you want to suggest. End of the day, it's far more productive, simple, and safer to locate a nice, out-of-the-way spot with some simple mob using a rank 0 and whacking on them ad nauseam, and for those of us looking to really get into the killing [players], we want to minimize it as much as is humanly possible, and get it out of the way.
There you go again, talking about killing n00b mons with rank 0 weapons. This is fine for your first few days....and from your post I'm starting to think you only played for a few days....but if you want real skill gains, you need to leave the n00b areas and fight something real. More and more in your wall of text I've seen examples of how you simply don't know what you are talking about. There's plenty of chaning scenery in Darkfall....you would have known that if you'd actually ridden around the looked. There are....fuck, countless different kinds of mobs, dungeons, cool areas to explore, players to fight, ships to sail, cities to attack, villages to capture, and other people to hang out with, duel, and just have a good time with. I think the REAL issue you have here is that there is no quest grind.....there's no NPC telling you what to do all day long, and THAT is what you consider "content".
Flame on and "defend" with your same, tired rebuttles. I'm done with you two, Wharg0ul and Agricola. And btw, that dumbass in the picture that you always love to post about "Nobody wants to lift no heavy-ass weights"... Yeah, neither did that guy. He used steroids, much like many of your DF heroes who've macro'd their fking balls off to get where they are. Any game where that becomes the acceptable norm for a year... eh, no sense going on.
Good, because we're tired of listening to you rant and cry about things that you have no clue about.
Whew.....that was a doozey....
Does that mean I wouldn't get 4 shot rolled in under 10 seconds, and I won't see a single vet wipe out every spawn around the npc cities?
Does that mean I wouldn't get 4 shot rolled in under 10 seconds, and I won't see a single vet wipe out every spawn around the npc cities?
No, it doesn't mean that at all, but what it does mean is that you will be gaining HP, mana, stamina, regen rates, etc at a much faster rate as a new player, making that time that you DO get 4 shot rolled in under 10 seconds not last nearly as long. What I'm advocating (and many others are too) is that instead of having stats benefit your character at a linear rate throughout your stat progression, they will do more to your character earlier on and less later.
Basically, in layman's terms, stats will affect your character the most when you first begin your character development, and as you continue to reach higher stat levels, they will affect your character less and less. Veterans will still have a very noticeable advantage if they have higher stats than you, but you can close the gap reasonably between a veteran and new player in a shorter time than it takes now.
As far as I understand, stats don't make that much of a difference. If you have 40 strength for example and you're going against someone with 100 strength, they will do 6 more damage per hit with their 60 point advantage. It's an edge, but not an insurmountable one by any measure.
Things like bubble chat would be dead giveaways as to where you are, which would be bad. There are player run vendors on houses.
The one point where I think you're right is when you say this debate will never end.
You forgot about vit(STR+vit = amount of HP) Most ppl also use bow and magic(Everyone is hybrid in darkfall) So its not all about str and vit. You also need the other attribute since anyone can play hybrid without any problem or limitation between.
So stats do make a lot of difference.
Bubble chat add more immersion. If you have ventrilo, there wont be bubble chat for you. If you speak on guild or party chat, no bubble chat. bubble chat is use only when you speak to the public around you. Mortal online have bubble chat and they did it perfectly. If you are too far, you wont see it, but if you are near, you will see it. Someone like you dont need bubble chat because you probably never speak with an unknown player you run across. You just kill him, loot him and get away.
This debate will never end and i hope AV will make some change. DF had been overhyped by 300 000 registered members in their forum. They all left because of the macroers and the stupid grind. If EVE got 300k members, why DF cant do better?
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As far as I understand, stats don't make that much of a difference. If you have 40 strength for example and you're going against someone with 100 strength, they will do 6 more damage per hit with their 60 point advantage. It's an edge, but not an insurmountable one by any measure.
Things like bubble chat would be dead giveaways as to where you are, which would be bad. There are player run vendors on houses.
The one point where I think you're right is when you say this debate will never end.
You forgot about vit(STR+vit = amount of HP) Most ppl also use bow and magic(Everyone is hybrid in darkfall) So its not all about str and vit. You also need the other attribute since anyone can play hybrid without any problem or limitation between.
So stats do make a lot of difference.
Bubble chat add more immersion. If you have ventrilo, there wont be bubble chat for you. If you speak on guild or party chat, no bubble chat. bubble chat is use only when you speak to the public around you. Mortal online have bubble chat and they did it perfectly. If you are too far, you wont see it, but if you are near, you will see it. Someone like you dont need bubble chat because you probably never speak with an unknown player you run across. You just kill him, loot him and get away.
This debate will never end and i hope AV will make some change. DF had been overhyped by 300 000 registered members in their forum. They all left because of the macroers and the stupid grind. If EVE got 300k members, why DF cant do better?
Eve's been out a lot longer. Darkfall's subs are currently rising by any measure. It may actually be rising at an optimal rate. Darkfall works well with the population it has now. I like that there's a chance of being known and knowing other players with Darkfall's smaller population (compared to other MMORPGs). Plus when you see someone in Darkfall outside a city, they're probably going to try to kill you.
I do speak to unknown players but I use /tells (the people I'm talking to are usually too new to figure out that the public tab is for local communication). Anyway, I hardly think lack of bubblechat is causing people to quit.
I do like Kasmos's idea of non-linear stat progression. I think it's a decent compromise between the two camps. It won't be nearly enough for some people though.
As far as I understand, stats don't make that much of a difference. If you have 40 strength for example and you're going against someone with 100 strength, they will do 6 more damage per hit with their 60 point advantage. It's an edge, but not an insurmountable one by any measure.
Things like bubble chat would be dead giveaways as to where you are, which would be bad. There are player run vendors on houses.
The one point where I think you're right is when you say this debate will never end.
You forgot about vit(STR+vit = amount of HP) Most ppl also use bow and magic(Everyone is hybrid in darkfall) So its not all about str and vit. You also need the other attribute since anyone can play hybrid without any problem or limitation between.
So stats do make a lot of difference.
Bubble chat add more immersion. If you have ventrilo, there wont be bubble chat for you. If you speak on guild or party chat, no bubble chat. bubble chat is use only when you speak to the public around you. Mortal online have bubble chat and they did it perfectly. If you are too far, you wont see it, but if you are near, you will see it. Someone like you dont need bubble chat because you probably never speak with an unknown player you run across. You just kill him, loot him and get away.
This debate will never end and i hope AV will make some change. DF had been overhyped by 300 000 registered members in their forum. They all left because of the macroers and the stupid grind. If EVE got 300k members, why DF cant do better?
Eve's been out a lot longer. Darkfall's subs are currently rising by any measure. It may actually be rising at an optimal rate. Darkfall works well with the population it has now. I like that there's a chance of being known and knowing other players with Darkfall's smaller population (compared to other MMORPGs). Plus when you see someone in Darkfall outside a city, they're probably going to try to kill you.
I do speak to unknown players but I use /tells (the people I'm talking to are usually too new to figure out that the public tab is for local communication). Anyway, I hardly think lack of bubblechat is causing people to quit.
I do like Kasmos's idea of non-linear stat progression. I think it's a decent compromise between the two camps. It won't be nearly enough for some people though.
You use tell when the unknown player is just near you because you know he cant hear you if that player is in a clan or in a group. You technically agree that DF chat system sux. They either need a filter chat system with colors so you can see all type of chat in one box or bubble chat system use to speak to ppl that are just in front of your face. Lack of chat bubble is a lack of local chat to me. When i played DF, i ended up sending tell or sending random group invite before i could talk. If that player was already in a group or if his name was too long to write(Remember, you have 2 names in DF) The players started to ignore me because they didnt heard me. Its an mmorpg and communication need to be done perfectly so it can be an other reason why players are quitting.
Currently, DF is rising because of the 1$ trial, but after their subscribe, do you think most of them will stay? I doubt it. The grind is horrible and the players will fall in the dark teal their ass fall on the cancel subscription.
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As far as I understand, stats don't make that much of a difference. If you have 40 strength for example and you're going against someone with 100 strength, they will do 6 more damage per hit with their 60 point advantage. It's an edge, but not an insurmountable one by any measure.
Things like bubble chat would be dead giveaways as to where you are, which would be bad. There are player run vendors on houses.
The one point where I think you're right is when you say this debate will never end.
You forgot about vit(STR+vit = amount of HP) Most ppl also use bow and magic(Everyone is hybrid in darkfall) So its not all about str and vit. You also need the other attribute since anyone can play hybrid without any problem or limitation between.
So stats do make a lot of difference.
Bubble chat add more immersion. If you have ventrilo, there wont be bubble chat for you. If you speak on guild or party chat, no bubble chat. bubble chat is use only when you speak to the public around you. Mortal online have bubble chat and they did it perfectly. If you are too far, you wont see it, but if you are near, you will see it. Someone like you dont need bubble chat because you probably never speak with an unknown player you run across. You just kill him, loot him and get away.
This debate will never end and i hope AV will make some change. DF had been overhyped by 300 000 registered members in their forum. They all left because of the macroers and the stupid grind. If EVE got 300k members, why DF cant do better?
Eve's been out a lot longer. Darkfall's subs are currently rising by any measure. It may actually be rising at an optimal rate. Darkfall works well with the population it has now. I like that there's a chance of being known and knowing other players with Darkfall's smaller population (compared to other MMORPGs). Plus when you see someone in Darkfall outside a city, they're probably going to try to kill you.
I do speak to unknown players but I use /tells (the people I'm talking to are usually too new to figure out that the public tab is for local communication). Anyway, I hardly think lack of bubblechat is causing people to quit.
I do like Kasmos's idea of non-linear stat progression. I think it's a decent compromise between the two camps. It won't be nearly enough for some people though.
You use tell when the unknown player is just near you because you know he cant hear you if that player is in a clan or in a group. You technically agree that DF chat system sux. They either need a filter chat system with colors so you can see all type of chat in one box or bubble chat system use to speak to ppl that are just in front of your face. Lack of chat bubble is a lack of local chat to me. When i played DF, i ended up sending tell or sending random group invite before i could talk. If that player was already in a group or if his name was too long to write(Remember, you have 2 names in DF) The players started to ignore me because they didnt heard me. Its an mmorpg and communication need to be done perfectly so it can be an other reason why players are quitting.
Currently, DF is rising because of the 1$ trial, but after their subscribe, do you think most of them will stay? I doubt it. The grind is horrible and the players will fall in the dark teal their ass fall on the cancel subscription.
The public tab is used for local communication. Everyone around you can read that. Considering you don't know that and don't know about player vendors on houses, you probably quit for some other reason. If the game's not for you, then it's just not for you.
The reason I use /tells is because I'm in the newbie areas and I figure many people, like you, won't know about the public tab or why it's there.
As far as I understand, stats don't make that much of a difference. If you have 40 strength for example and you're going against someone with 100 strength, they will do 6 more damage per hit with their 60 point advantage. It's an edge, but not an insurmountable one by any measure.
Things like bubble chat would be dead giveaways as to where you are, which would be bad. There are player run vendors on houses.
The one point where I think you're right is when you say this debate will never end.
You forgot about vit(STR+vit = amount of HP) Most ppl also use bow and magic(Everyone is hybrid in darkfall) So its not all about str and vit. You also need the other attribute since anyone can play hybrid without any problem or limitation between.
So stats do make a lot of difference.
Bubble chat add more immersion. If you have ventrilo, there wont be bubble chat for you. If you speak on guild or party chat, no bubble chat. bubble chat is use only when you speak to the public around you. Mortal online have bubble chat and they did it perfectly. If you are too far, you wont see it, but if you are near, you will see it. Someone like you dont need bubble chat because you probably never speak with an unknown player you run across. You just kill him, loot him and get away.
This debate will never end and i hope AV will make some change. DF had been overhyped by 300 000 registered members in their forum. They all left because of the macroers and the stupid grind. If EVE got 300k members, why DF cant do better?
Eve's been out a lot longer. Darkfall's subs are currently rising by any measure. It may actually be rising at an optimal rate. Darkfall works well with the population it has now. I like that there's a chance of being known and knowing other players with Darkfall's smaller population (compared to other MMORPGs). Plus when you see someone in Darkfall outside a city, they're probably going to try to kill you.
I do speak to unknown players but I use /tells (the people I'm talking to are usually too new to figure out that the public tab is for local communication). Anyway, I hardly think lack of bubblechat is causing people to quit.
I do like Kasmos's idea of non-linear stat progression. I think it's a decent compromise between the two camps. It won't be nearly enough for some people though.
You use tell when the unknown player is just near you because you know he cant hear you if that player is in a clan or in a group. You technically agree that DF chat system sux. They either need a filter chat system with colors so you can see all type of chat in one box or bubble chat system use to speak to ppl that are just in front of your face. Lack of chat bubble is a lack of local chat to me. When i played DF, i ended up sending tell or sending random group invite before i could talk. If that player was already in a group or if his name was too long to write(Remember, you have 2 names in DF) The players started to ignore me because they didnt heard me. Its an mmorpg and communication need to be done perfectly so it can be an other reason why players are quitting.
Currently, DF is rising because of the 1$ trial, but after their subscribe, do you think most of them will stay? I doubt it. The grind is horrible and the players will fall in the dark teal their ass fall on the cancel subscription.
The public tab is used for local communication. Everyone around you can read that. Considering you don't know that and don't know about player vendors on houses, you probably quit for some other reason. If the game's not for you, then it's just not for you.
The reason I use /tells is because I'm in the newbie areas and I figure many people, like you, won't know about the public tab or why it's there.
The chat system is horribly designed and people missing say chat all the time. I've came up with a way to never miss say or anything for that matter (when I care) by changing the tab flash color to yellow and putting all my important chat tabs into a new window leaving the default window for tells only. When you exit the window that way, a new chat window will appear anytime you get a new tell. I just discovered that recently and I've been playing for a year
Games:
Currently playing:Nothing
Will play: Darkfall: Unholy Wars
Past games:
Guild Wars 2 - Xpiher Duminous
Xpiher's GW2
GW 1 - Xpiher Duminous
Darkfall - Xpiher Duminous (NA) retired
AoC - Xpiher (Tyranny) retired
Warhammer - Xpiher
Whew...that wasn't a doozy at all. Glad the mental capacity for reading, understanding, and responding to a paragraph at a time isn't a mental stress for me.
For reference: My original reply in cool mint green, smallest text. Wharg0ul's response in: piss yellow, small text. My (this) reply in smarter than you blue and normal size (pretentiousness included!).
A side note: it doesn't take much time at all for me to conjure up a wall of text, so I don't want you to get some odd impression that you've somehow gotten to me because I take the time to respond. I'm finding the whole thing quite amusing, tbh, and just because you might have your feathers ruffled, doesn't mean that I do. All in good fun, for me at least. If you're personally offended by anything I've written here, Wharg0ul, feel free not to bother with a response, as I'm sure it would continue to prove little more than blind love for a thing - which is perfectly OK I suppose. Shouldn't preclude a discussion here about an issue that many people have had with this game, however, so just let be what will be if you can't add anything constructive.
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."
George Bernard Shaw
What is a cynic? A man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.
Oscar Wilde
I read all that and just have a couple points to respond to. I don't really have enough experience in the game to respond to most of it.
No, those aren't the only players you'll have to fight in Darkfall, and when I met players that were around my "level", so to speak, I had some of the most fun in an MMO I've had in quite some time. However, that becomes so quickly decimated when even one guy with 400HP, and a few surging skills comes along.
I think a point could be made that although you probably won't have a chance against the guy with 400HP, and by this point there will likely always be someone stronger than you unless you put in a year like they did, the inherent danger that someone like that could be close adds a really fun element. One of my favorite things about Darkfall is there's almost always some danger. The stronger the vets are compared to you, the greater the danger.
By the by, I'm not the one crying here. You guys are, because as I've stated previously, a cross word has been uttered about your precious.
I think people that like a game are naturally protective, and especially so with Darkfall since it had such a rough launch and has received much negative press over the past year.
I know for a fact that I pretty much expected the game to be awful and completely 1-dimensional before I started just based on what I've read when browsing around gaming sites. That's why I never paid for the full game. Luckily, the dollar trial came out right as my frustration with STO reached critical mass after 3 weeks, so I got a chance to try this awesome game.
Whew...that wasn't a doozy at all. Glad the mental capacity for reading, understanding, and responding to a paragraph at a time isn't a mental stress for me.
For reference: My original reply in cool mint green, smallest text. Wharg0ul's response in: piss yellow, small text. My (this) reply in smarter than you blue and normal size (pretentiousness included!).
A side note: it doesn't take much time at all for me to conjure up a wall of text, so I don't want you to get some odd impression that you've somehow gotten to me because I take the time to respond. I'm finding the whole thing quite amusing, tbh, and just because you might have your feathers ruffled, doesn't mean that I do. All in good fun, for me at least. If you're personally offended by anything I've written here, Wharg0ul, feel free not to bother with a response, as I'm sure it would continue to prove little more than blind love for a thing - which is perfectly OK I suppose. Shouldn't preclude a discussion here about an issue that many people have had with this game, however, so just let be what will be if you can't add anything constructive.
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."
George Bernard Shaw
What is a cynic? A man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.
Oscar Wilde
Just want to let you know, thats how a cap work in mortal online.
I wont state his name, but a player had manage to reach the stats cap with his main character and his alt in the beta.
First Toon
Str 100
Dex 79
Int 19
Psy 26
Con 97
This Toon
Str 80
Dex 87
Int 32
Psy 45
Con 76
Even if in MO, you could only had 1 character per account, you can still decide to put on decay mode the stats and skills you want, raise mode those you want or pause those you want, so changing style in MO is easy. Its fast to get our stats and skills up, but if you are red flagged pker, every time you die, you lose 10% of your total stats. This is done way better.
In darkfall, you got players who got 80-80-80-80-80-80 and minimum 50 to each. To reach those stats, you have to play for a year plus you had to macro since launch. Some who played for a year without macroing still got low stats compared to the macroers. So DF is really an endless grind and it will be a let down for the newcomers who wear looking for a pvp game.
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I'll just say thanks, for finally posting a response with your emotion left out of it for the most part. You have to take an objective look at the game, leaving your own "OMG BEST GAME EVAR" at the door sometimes. Make no mistake about it - I thoroughly enjoyed DF while I played, and still have fond memories for the just under 2 months I was there. I didn't ragequit, and I didn't quit with bad feelings towards the game or its players. I merely lost interest after realizing what the game had become for me, driven by my own competitive nature. I'm just not the type of person to be the bug for so long before I get to be the windshield (and I don't even have interest in being the windshield, either). It doesn't mean I want things "now now NEOW!!", I just didn't care for the disparity between a "noob" and a "vet". It's a big turnoff, regardless of the time taken to get from A to B. And really, as I think more about it, I was probably sickened by what I faced ahead of me to have viable magic skills after the rather extreme amount of effort I'd already put forth in getting to where I was. Call it burnout if you want, but the carrot was just too far away to even bother being interested in it anymore. I just wasn't interested in burning play-time whacking on trees just so my sub-par health would finally go up, even after a dedicated month and a week almost entirely in melee.
On that note, I generally enjoy crafting, but the gathering really just killed it for me here. I mean, it was literally go out in a robe/naked, carry an axe/pick, find a node, click, and wait for 10 minutes. Rinse, repeat until you're too scared to carry on and go bank (and to be productive would require several hours a day of this to expect any real results). To make matters worse, mining and logging were (an I can only assume still are) the best method for stat gains. My vitality was depressingly low for the time I'd spent (as noted, my health never passed 260 with nearly 2 months, and 96 or 97 Gaxe skill, and I'm not much of an AFK swimmer) so it certainly didn't help matters that whacking a freaking rock surpassed the risk involved with grinding in terms of which was more productive to gain health. Also as I've covered now (and you seemingly understand), my clans all sucked in terms of player ability, activity level in the guild, and overall attitude. The only people I really enjoyed playing and grouping with were buds from NEW who I'd tagged along with up to that point, one of whom was on a schedule I couldn't keep pace with, and the other who just wasn't around enough. As much as anything that was indeed what helped drive my interest south. Regardless, the mountain of effort I felt I put into the game, and the dirt pile of a reward (in the way of the stats I had) really just dampened my will to play to the point I just quit. TBH, I think the nail in the coffin was one of the last days I finally did log in, and spent around 6 or so hours (total, counting breaks, bank time, etc.) grinding melee on Crypt Guards, only to gain 1 HP off a strength point. It's really, really difficult not to get caught up in just how atrocious that is when you really take a step back and examine it (especially when you just don't give a shit about the folks you're playing with).
At any rate, I think I've said all I can say on the subject. Thrilled that DFO has gone well for you, and I do wish the game and its players the best, but it's just a world I don't think I want any part of. It's a shame, really, because the combat was so addictive and fun for what it was, and players like myself are still left in the lurch, waiting for a game of this style to come along that doesn't require an enormous time investment before you can really start having fun where the game really shines - the PVP. That's really the only reason I even bother to pay attention to the DF boards - there's just nothing else out there like it, and tab target 1,2,3 lost its appeal a while back now.
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."
George Bernard Shaw
What is a cynic? A man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.
Oscar Wilde
In Darkfall the importance of damage output is as follows
Mastery > Weapon Rank > Resistances (Armor) > Player Skill (Situational Damage) > Stat
Since skill mastery is not hard to get and since there are no restrictions in use of armor and weapons from day 1 , the discussion in these topic is misleading.
@shimmyas
What was you mastery , what rank weapon you used and what armor did you wear ?
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE--------------------------------------------------
$OE - eternal enemy of online gaming
-We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
I was just enjoying laughing at this thread until I see this sentiment repeated so often...
...doesn't this just speak loads about Darkfall in so few words? The OP said it in that a vet practically maxed out his character and got bored (and that he himself would lose interest without it). Several others have echoed the same in that they'd quit without the grind (Hey Agricola!). I mean, that pretty much says it all about the state of the game and its current players, now doesn't it? I'd elaborate, but it's another wall of text noone would read, and besides, I think a little thought into what that really means should say all it needs to.
Doesn't say anything about the state of the game, actually. These are the kinds of people who enjoy a sense of accomplishment, and progress.
You can find them in every game. they usually have 3 or 4 alts, most max level, if not all. they enjoy the act of progressing.
Of course in Darkfall, you can only have one character, so once a character was totally maxxed out in every skill, there would be little for them to do, character-wise.
Thankfully, there are....a fuckload of skills the game. It would take ages to max them all out, especially without macroing.
This should keep them busy for a long while.
Man, you just miss the point on purpose, don't you? That's why you can't leave anything to personal interpretation without a massive explanation when it involves you guys, and even then you just don't get it because you keep your blinders on.
Look. The PVP in Darkfall is outstanding. On the flipside, the content is completely and utterly nil. The point of what I was quoting is that game currently fails on such a fundamental level because it's ... and this is a big one ... COUNTER-INTUITIVE. The people currently playing can mask their logic in defending the grind as "it's an accomplishment" or "we should have an advantage" or whatever excuse they please. The reality of it is that, as I pointed out for you - these very same people would vanish without the grind, and those that make it there eventually fade out and leave.
Let's examine why, and why I used such a big, hyphenated word up yonder. PVP
Yup, pvp. Know what the problem with the game is? Reach a point, and the challenge is gone. Why? Everyone who hasn't played more than 6+ months and/or doesn't smell like a possum can't possibly compete with them. Don't kid yourself and pretend it isn't the case. The reality is that being that much stronger than your opponents is only entertaining for so long. Go play your favorite single-player game, then turn the cheats on. You'll yee-haw it up for a bit, then you'll just say "meh" and move on. Meanwhile, what's this guy who has reached the top going to do? Farm? Pfft. By then he's likely got everything he'll ever want or need to go slaughter "noobs" all day (see earlier sentence for under 6 months definition of noob). There's no longer any motivation.
"So why, Shiymmas, does reducing the grind help?"
Again, I'll reference that big word up near the top... C O U N T E R - I N T U I T I V E *spoken with a deep, echoey voice
You can't PVP if you're out grinding, unless some random ganker finds you in which, by the very nature of the gank, you're going to die, and meanwhile you can't successfully PVP without grinding. You can try to find PVP if you'd like by going out and hunting players, but personally having tried this in Darkfall, mounted up in a team of 5, it's actually much, much harder than you might think to find enemies, other than actually raiding a player-built city or hamlet. So, you're essentially left with sieges to look forward to, which in my experience (notice the bold; it may not apply to everyone), happen once every few days and, at best, maybe twice on a weekend. The "sieges" I saw involved little more than 20-30 players on each side, and ended rather quickly (under 1hr is pretty damn fast).
I mean, if common sense hasn't sunk in by now, I'm not sure that someone doesn't need to be shipped to your house in a box, only for you to open it and have a midget whack you upside the head with a miniature steel mallet. Afterward, aside from being cross-eyed, you may finally realize that if people didn't have to spend so much Goddamn time grinding (or at least feel extremely compelled to do so by any PVPer's competitive nature) there'd be far more people actually.... TADA!!!! PVP'ING! WOOHOOO!!!
Imagine it! Sieges every day.. sometimes multiple times per day! Imagine that farming actually MEANT something (they could damn sure speed that up too, now that the world will be crawling with far more folks looking to .. PVP!) and that you actually faced more danger than the random, brave PK encroaching on your super-cozy PVE-haven of a player-built city! God forbid you have to .. gasp .. pay attention while doing so!
Come on guys. There's an extremely bright lining to Darkfall if some serious adjustments would take place, and you shouldn't need a freaking poll or some other empirical evidence to point that out for you. Sure, keep some grind there so new folk have to really earn their skills. One to two months tops for a hardcore player to get a maxed out magic school (I'm talking mastery to 75+ here, not just 100 of the school itself) with their 2h of choice and archery up there with some witches brew would be more than acceptable. In that same time frame, 300+ HP wouldn't hurt. NOW you'd have a game on your hands where things meant more than just time invested. I mean, any dumbshit can sit around whacking trees all day, farming goblins non-stop with rank 0s and eventually become a PVP god regardless of how horrifyingly bad a player they are (I've seen these types, and I've beaten them {within the very clans I joined while playing} but I've also watched them utterly rape the average schmo just because they have the skills/stats to back up their horrifying flaws as a player). That shouldn't be the basis on which you value your character, at least not in a ... yup, P V P GAME. Get a clue.
Oh, and a last note - those other games out there with "monster" grinds actually had a mask for that grind be it in quests, changing scenery, new mob types, and plenty of other side activities to burn time with to cool off from the grind. In Darkfall, it's beat rocks, or beat mobs until you can beat people. That's not variety, that's called no content in spite of how large the world is. Crow all you want about finding new things to kill, or whatever else you want to suggest. End of the day, it's far more productive, simple, and safer to locate a nice, out-of-the-way spot with some simple mob using a rank 0 and whacking on them ad nauseam, and for those of us looking to really get into the killing [players], we want to minimize it as much as is humanly possible, and get it out of the way.
Flame on and "defend" with your same, tired rebuttles. I'm done with you two, Wharg0ul and Agricola. And btw, that dumbass in the picture that you always love to post about "Nobody wants to lift no heavy-ass weights"... Yeah, neither did that guy. He used steroids, much like many of your DF heroes who've macro'd their fking balls off to get where they are. Any game where that becomes the acceptable norm for a year... eh, no sense going on.
+1 this coming from someone that would like to try it but WILL NOT sit through a pve grind as such. If they took some of the pve grind out, cracked down on hackers and botters I would be interested in trying the game. Til these 2 things are addressed I'd imagine many will take the same stance.
Tbh I get the impression that many of the vets simply want to protect their advantage/leverage or whatever else you want to call it. Think about what the quoted post says "more pvp in a pvp game" how can that be bad? Never understood how hardcore pvpers would defend a bunk pve grind that isn't even hidden.
ROFL! If anyone has ever played on a NON-SANCTIONED Ultima Online server then you may think this thread looks familiar. It has been posted 10M+ times on every one of those shard boards.
Different game, same crap.
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