General: Five Things the Warhammer 40K MMO Needs to Get Right

MikeB

MMORPG.com's Garrett Fuller writes this latest article on the five things the upcoming Warhammer 40k MMOG by Vigil Games needs to get right.

Anyone following MMOs knows that there has been talk of Vigil Games's Warhammer 40k MMO for some time. The game has remained shrouded in mystery and few have seen any real concrete news about its development. Then, a few weeks ago, THQ mentions the game in their investor call and how important the game will be for revenue. With that we learn that the game will be shown at E3 this year, and 40K fans suddenly looked up from their gaming tables and heard the call.

In theorizing about the game there are certain elements that Vigil has to consider when making a 40K MMO. We thought it would be fun to put a list together of five areas that are critical to the game in table top form and what makes the IP so popular around the world. Here is a list of areas we feel need to be handled well for the game to appeal to 40k fans whether you play Space Marines or Orks.

Read Five Things the Warhammer 40K MMO Needs to Get Right.

Remains

I sure hope they're not afraid to try some new and fresh game mechanics in this. Will be interesting to see how this game develops.

Inktomi

 If someone has the ability to just jump into a predator and start blasting away will drive me nuts. It has to have a progression factor, but I do agree that these vehicles should be part of the game.

So should the myriad of spacecraft and interplanetary travel.

But what about ingame economy?

Silverwatch

I dont think they should copy but they should take notes from planetside in terms of vehicle use and different armour types. Most of us have played planetside with the certification sytem and i believe it could work tbh with like different certs for light veichles and more for the heavier ones, also for different armour types.

GrumpyMel2

Wow...a Warhammer 40K MMO could be huge.... it certainly has alot of rich lore to choose from...a built-in fan base ...and a perfect setting for some gut wrenching, visceral combat action.....and perfect rationale for jumping from environment to environment.

I think the the player perspective question is probably the easiest to answer. There is NO REASON (other then skimping on Dev costs) that a game can't offer a choice of player perspectives...and has to force a player into one. This was a big short-coming of Tabula Rasa and a few other games.  I pretty much ONLY play MMO's from First Person perspective ....can't stand 3rd Person.... However I know ALOT of MMO players have the opposite preference.

Games like LOTRO I think do this perfectly where you have a variety of perspectives for the player to choose from....where you can play zoomed out from 3rd person perspective or zoom all the way in and get a first person view (like I play from)... or switch between the two depending upon the situation.

I think that would be a really good route for Warhammer 40K to go. On the one hand, your going to want to appeal to the traditional MMO crowd...who generaly seem to prefer 3rd Person ....and yes definately people are going to want to be able to see how thier character looks while fighting in powered armor and 3rd person often is more functional for melee combat where you don't have the advantage of periphrial vision on a computer monitor.  On the other hand...modern (futuristic) combat games where you have alot of shooting going on tend to lend themselves more naturaly to First Person..... and this genre would have the potential for alot of cross appeal with FPS players....who naturaly tend to gravitate to First Person perspectice..... and frankly First Person atmosphericaly tends to lend itself to a more visceral, gut wrenching (and less detached) form of play...which would be a big part of the appeal for a 40K game.  So I think allowing players to switch perspectives as they choose really makes sense.

 

Praxus1874

Everything in this article, perhaps with the exception of the interface, is defined by scope.

With an IP this large, and spanning decades of material, they have to choose a reasonable scope for this project.

I think once we get an idea of the scope, then we can answer nearly every question in this article with some degree of certainty.

From my personal perspective, and acknowledging the fantasy version in Warhammer Online, below are my opinions.

PVP

They need to include at least four races, perhaps what are deemed the "core races" at launch. This would include Space Marine, Ork, Eldar and Chaos. These 4 races have been a part of the game since the beginning and are to be expected in anything 40k-related.

I think doing anything other than making these factions completely separate would be a mistake. A grave one. One only has to look at WAR for an example of how poorly 2-faction PvP is, even when the game is supposedly focused on it. All of these races need to be fully fleshed out and vying for control of the same resources, with the exception of perhaps an "HQ" area for each race.

Chapters/Kults/Home-Worlds

These will likely be the WH40k equivalent of guilds. As lore-breaking as that may be, at least for space marines, I think it's the easiest/best solution.

Weapons/Armor/Vehicles

Weapons and armor balance themselves in my opinion. Terminators cannot wield heavy weapons such as plasma cannons, missile launchers etc. Similarly, standard power armor cannot wield assault cannons, chainfists, and the like. There are similar examples for all races. I think this should be a player choice in equipping their character, however.

Player-controlled vehicles are, unfortunately, outside of a realistic scope at launch I think. While I agree that they are integral to the 40k experience, I think they will be NPC-driven only. At least at launch. This gives them the ability to implement them later. Again, this goes with the scale argument.

Character advancement

As you suggested in the article, this kind of takes care of itself in 40k. You could easily start as an initiate/scout for the marines, a guardian for the eldar or one of the ork "boyz". Hopefully, advancement would allow you to either specialize in that "class" or further specialize your character to be a tac marine, devastator, terminator etc, or the racial equivalent for the other factions. You certainly don't want to force people out of that initial class, since they are an integral part of 40k armies.

Those are my opinions anyway, and I look forward to seeing how it all shapes up.

Prax

deathg

I think something they need to take into account is the social aspect of MMOs. Will all races be able to talk to each other or will they pull a WoW and give opposing factions language barriers? Also will factions be able to team up? In 40k fiction this has happened, Eldar and Inquisition for example. Or will they stop players from doing this. I know PvP wise stopping different factions from teaming up makes sense, but what about PvE or just Socializing.

maxtlion

I can't wait to see how this develops. I played both Warhammer and 40K a load in my younger days and there is so much to the IP that probably the thing I would want to see is a realistic objective of how much to get in the original launch.

There is a tendency to over-promise and under-deliver on many new games and it would be great to see a realistic aim followed through, with expansions further down the line to add in new facets of gameplay, experience and areas to explore. Original launch could cover the central planets, expanded later on to the Hiveworlds of the Tyrannids, the Eye of Chaos etc.

Facets of gameplay could include various things like the level of equipment you can achieve, ship-to-ship combat and - dare we dream - the Adeptus Titanicus!

Codenak

How will they prevent or counter massive groups of space marines pwning all?

RavingRabbid

As long as it doesnt go the way of WAR! THQ is handling it and with little information we can only hope they do well with this title.

(BBBBBWWWWWWAAAAAAHHHHH  raises plunger in salute to warhammer 40K!)

Praxus1874

Originally posted by Codenak


How will they prevent or counter massive groups of space marines pwning all?

They won't!  Then it will deliver a true tabletop to MMO experience! :P

No, in all seriousness, they will have to balance the factions out, like any decent PvP MMO does.  The tabletop does a poor job of balancing anything, and the books turn Space Marines into demi-gods.  They will have to ignore both sources in this specific instance, for the sake of making a balanced game.

Prax

Papadam

Interesting article!

A Warhammer 40k MMO have huge potential but there are some really hard nuts to crack to make it work and I hope they can pull it off.

I hope they learn from the failure of WAR that they dont combine the armies into factions. I rather see 3 armies like : Space marines, Orcs and Eldar than trying to fit as many races as possible into the game and shoehorn them into factions.

The hard thing will be to balance the races between eachother. Maybe they will stick to just having Space marines and Chaos as playable races since they have access to pretty much the same arsenals and will be easier to balance.

WhiteLantern

My biggest concern is how do you take a franchise that is based on the plural-entity-experience and make it playable in the singular.  WH40K is not based around what one person can do, but what a group can do. If each player is a member of a squad, what happens when his squad-mates are offline? If each person controls a squad, what separates this from DoW? And with the universe being steeped in, and based on, combat, what would make gamers give up on DoW to play this (besides the social aspect of course)? Maybe this will turn out to be DoW3 (online). Or maybe it will go the way of WoW and we'll all be hero classes (God I hope not), fighting alongside AI sqadrons.

I must admit, I'm highly skeptical. I love the WH40K universe and hope this turns out well. I can honestly see them going the way of STO ground combat and making your avatar a squad leader with AI squadmates. But with the viral reaction to STO combat, they may shoot themselves if they try this route. But, in the end, the only thing that will keep me from trying this game out is if it is total PvP. Not that there is anything wrong with that; it's just not my cup of tea.

Praxus1874

Originally posted by WhiteLantern


My biggest concern is how do you take a franchise that is based on the plural-entity-experience and make it playable in the singular.  WH40K is not based around what one person can do, but what a group can do. If each player is a member of a squad, what happens when his squad-mates are offline? If each person controls a squad, what separates this from DoW? And with the universe being steeped in, and based on, combat, what would make gamers give up on DoW to play this (besides the social aspect of course)? Maybe this will turn out to be DoW3 (online). Or maybe it will go the way of WoW and we'll all be hero classes (God I hope not), fighting alongside AI sqadrons.
I must admit, I'm highly skeptical. I love the WH40K universe and hope this turns out well. I can honestly see them going the way of STO ground combat and making your avatar a squad leader with AI squadmates. But with the viral reaction to STO combat, they may shoot themselves if they try this route. But, in the end, the only thing that will keep me from trying this game out is if it is total PvP. Not that there is anything wrong with that; it's just not my cup of tea.

DOW 2 was very close a a single entity experience.  The squads were...minimal at best, supporting the leader of the squad.  The levelling up equipment aspect of DOW2 may be something of a preview of how such a system might work in an MMO as well.  

Also, the 40k books are FULL of examples of the setting being focused on single entities of all factions.

Prax

Kyleran

In my book WH40K needs to be a fun, full featured virtual world and not reduced simply to its combat elements.

We can discuss the particulars later.

Praxus1874

Originally posted by Kyleran


In my book WH40K needs to be a fun, full featured virtual world and not reduced simply to its combat elements.
We can discuss the particulars later.

Can you define "full-featured" virtual world?  Your definition and mine might differ.

Prax

battleaxe

"The fighting has to be fast and furious, but not so quick that players die instantly."

This is the problem with scifi games.  Planetside, for instance, in an effort to "slow down" combat decided that your tanks' cannon were shooting dodgeballs.  You had to hit players multiple times to kill them...with any weapon.  The only weapon that worked as it should was the tank's bumper - one hit, one kill.  In other words, the most powerful weapon in the game was the tank bumper.  People would ignore the guns and try to run players down.  A skilled driver could get more kills than his gunner(s).

Back to basics - it's war.  People die.  Fast.  Slowing it down just makes it stupid.

Instead of unrealistic soft bullets and tanks that shoot dodgeballs, how about making combat more realistic and strategic?  Fill the battlefields with cover and let players use the terrain to crouch, snipe, corner lean, provide cover fire, etc.

Skeltem

Until something proves otherwise, I see this crash and burn. Because the developers try to do too many things and fail to accomplish anything. Just like any newly released game since LOTRO.

 Prove me wrong, I beg you.

nekollx

Originally posted by Inktomi


 If someone has the ability to just jump into a predator and start blasting away will drive me nuts. It has to have a progression factor, but I do agree that these vehicles should be part of the game.
So should the myriad of spacecraft and interplanetary travel.
But what about ingame economy?

i would treat it like the table top

give players X points to start and treat vehicles either as gear you buy, build, or a "power" they need to spend points on. Seems the best way to me.

 

Do you spend 400 points on a Predator Mech or armor and maybe some AI companions?

 

As for PVP i say 

 

FREE FOR ALL

 

let the players choose sides.

ch00bz

Honestly, i feel the only way the gameplay will be fun is if they made it twitch-based.

If its twitched-based, they can easily balance the melee and range weapons in the game. As well, it would give you that fast paced action that occurs in wars of the 40k Universe.

 

Praxus1874

 This talk of interplanetary travel is madness.  There is no way they could successfully implement that, along with fully realized factions, and PvP at launch.  

I believe, at best, you will have the ability to teleport to orbiting hulks and/or hive ships (instanced PvE encounters).

Judging from many of the responses here, I think people who are expecting titans (lol), battlefleet gothic and epic warfare will be extremely disappointed.

Prax

local93bc

I dont think this has any potential for a classic mmo. BUT

As long as they think this out correcly they may have some success.

I have to hand it to them for taking this  on.

To do it right they will need to build it right from scratch.

I would go skill based no lvling.  Id forguet about classes as well.

I think Twtch and auto aiming with % to hit would have to be included, to not totaly piss anyone off.

This is a monster. it will eat them up befor they are done.

bonds0097

THQ has done well with the WH40K license so far, and as stated earlier, a lot of what DOWII offered can be translated to the MMO world. I'm certainly hopeful. I think the most critical part is having a persistent world where player actions matter (such as planets being taken, cities captured, etc.) and at least three factions so that player population balances itself.  I think these two aspects are what took a lot of the fun out of WAR: everyone was in scenarios instead of open-world RvR and there are only two factions.  

AnvilMAn

too lazy to go prowling through the thread to see if this has been said but 1 thing they CANT do is playable space marines. hear me out before the smurf fans get out their pitchforks and torches.....

 

 

in the fluff space marines are 8 feet of genetically engineered asswhup. if theyre going to have a game with pvp thats balanced around eldar and tau and imperial guard they need to tone down their power to be around the average grunt level.

 

im not sure what would be worse then everybody playing space marines because of how  stupidly overpowered they would need to be to satisfy the lore of the universe when compared to an IG.

 

that being said i think the best thing would be to make them NPCs only.

boonieboone

  I hope they balance things out. I would hate to see 10k Space Marines running around bunny hopping firing meltas all day....It just doesnt fit. I also hope if they do a ranking system they cap how many people can have a certain rank. You would never  see 5k Lord Militant Generals running around in one battle power fists swinging. You dont have a company of chapter masters fighting in a battle..

  And to have a 40k game without the Imperial Guard would be a shame. I mean genetic augmentations and fancy armor are for (expletives). They do all the grunt work and SM's take all the credit.

  Space Marines should be the end all be all if anything. They are picked from a handful of planets to, only a few dozen chapters. I forgot how many chapters there are with second foundings and all the chapters created from the original legions when they were split apart. They should be the jedi of 40k. The marines and Inquisitors should be end game classes which are feared and respected everywhere.

  There is so much fluff in 40k to deal with... I just hope they dont lump all the factions into a few buckets with some arcane wierd seperate reality plot twist in which Dark Eldar, Orks and Chaos are buddies hanging out in the eye of terror looking for group.

  As long as I can play Imperial Guard or a Space Puppy Ill be happy either way....I just have high hopes I can shoot a lot green skins and some fish heads.

 

Khalathwyr

As a former GW employee I'm interested in seeing what this game has to offer. If it's only a twitch-based "combat, combat, combat" game it'll only do a disservice to the IP as this certainly is an opportunity to bring more of the 40K universe to life, to flesh it out more. If it's just an MMO 40K combat arcade themepark, well, that in my view was tried with WAR and didn't turn out so hot.

I agree with where I think Kyleran's comments were headed. More sim and less arcade.