The problem with Tyranid's is... they have no free will of their own. Seriously, it's a hive mind, so they're being directed by the hive ships in orbit so it just goes against the lore to have Tyranids as a playable race/faction/whatever. It's the same problem with the Necron's, but everybody else is fine. ^^ Bring on the Tau I say, bring on the Fire Caste!
Ever had a squad of marines charged by Banshees or Scorpians. Ive destroyed SM Devastator squads with fewer Reapers. It isnt just stat lines, as I said the Aspects are like specialized versions of marines, in their intended roles they can destroy SMs. SMs are powerful and one of the things that makes them so powerful is they are so versatile, theyre not only really really good, theyre good at everything. That doesnt mean they can beat everyone or that theyre necessarily better than everyone though. A good Eldar player that knows how to use and maneuver his troops will eat up a SM player. Thats why at least until recently Eldar were considered OP on tabletop. Harlequins ftw. Its not just about stat line, as an IG enthusiast you should appreciate that as much as anyone.
(I should of quoted but bleh hehe) I have been charged by banshees and charged with them . I have charged banshees and scorps with my assault squad and wiped them. I actually played Eldar first, since about 3rd edition. I am talking basic stat line SM is better than most everyone. In the books one on one SM kicks everyones ass. The game is all about dice rolls. The space marine is well balanced and can do anything. Eldar are good at what you make them good at, aka aspects. in hand to hand there are few that surpass harlequins except Tyranids now ith whiplash which now give harlies Init 1. Either way I tend to just turn on the heavy flamers power up the meltas and make sure the promethium isnt at a shortage. Just love the fluff with the Imperium. The space elves got sold when I joined the Army and bought Tau. When 5ED came out and ruined the Tau I picked up the IG and some Space Wolves which I love to play so far. Nothing like drunk Space Vikings backed up by IG PDF in Apoc.
I agree that the a SMs are the best all around troops, throw most situations at them and they have a decent chance. They do well at range and in melee but there are better at both in many armies. Depends on the situation you want to put them in.
It seems like we are mostly in agreement at this time.
I love IG too btw.
love killing those superhumans with massed lasgun fire lol
I always thought a game based on the rivaling factions within the imperium would have made more sense. You have the marines, the Inquisition, the Mechanicum, the Ecclesiarchy, various rough traders, gang members, bounty hunters and nobility and more. Then you have the option of being a radical or a puritan, a follower of chaos or the god emperor. Do you collect Alien artifacts and items or are you appalled by them.
This allows for one PVE faction, but 2 or even more PVP factions. Say followers of chaos enter a instance at one end and the good guys enter at the other end and then you have a race to the objective with pvp thrown in. (Sounds a bit like Dregion from Aion but you get the idea).
Most of the factions I've listed are also more free in their choices of equipment imo. An inquisitor can wear anything from a robe to power or even terminator armor. They might also have access to psychic powers while a faction like Tech priest have access to ancient tech. I guess Marines are the ones most restricted in this fashion. they are how ever at the core of what most consider to be 40k. Personally i don't mind, and might even prefer not having space marines as a playable faction.
For a game with a at least partial focus on ranged fire fights i think a good cover system would add a nice level of tactical game play. Like the system thats planed for the smugglers in the old republic, but you know, available for everyone.
Having said that i would still be more then happy with just a Dawn of War online.
' to be a man in such times is to be one amongst untold billions. It is to live in the cruellest and most bloody regime imaginable. This is the tale of those times. It is a universe you can live in today if you dare, for this is a dark and terrible era where you will find little comfort to hope. Forget the promise of progress and understanding, for there is no peace amongst the stars only an eternity of carnage and slaughter and the laughter of thirsting gods.'
If they manage to turn this incredible setting into some tween WAR cartoon then I'm off.
I really think that taking Warhammer 40k into the mmo world just will not translate well. It would be absolutely marvelous if it worked out, but I just don't see it playing out well. Chock my negative attitude to our string of bad choices since the first mmo rolled out after WoW.
If you are going to use a mature IP, then make the game mature. Was anything even remotely scarey about chaos? The most feared Race in the IP and the best they did was pastel colors and a flying disk. Please.
Apparently you misspelled tyranids as chaos.
Apparently you haven't bothered to read my posts. I have been referring to WAR. Last I checked it did not have Tyranids.
Learn to read before trolling.
No.
I believe i will troll wherever and whenever and however i like.
Apparently stating the truth in my sig is "trolling" Sig typo fixed thanks to an observant stragen001.
How will they prevent or counter massive groups of space marines pwning all?
What makes you think they want to? As far as some are concerned FFA Full Loot says it all. Of course, that totally niches the game at launch(in the west). But thats simply the price one pays for a sand box game...<rolls eyes>. I'm hoping that they have more common sense than that(or at least I'm hoping their investors do...). The 40K lore is very rich and deep, and so many things can be done with it, it would be a shame if their approach drops them into a narrow niche, and thus limits its potential audience(and development).
Interface wise, perhaps over the shoulder for most things, but switching to first person for sniping and melee combat? Everyone starts out with training for the basic weapons and armor, but the heavy gear takes specialized training.
How about they start by making it an actual mmorpg rather than the current trend of making a single player game expanded to multiplayer to get it out of the door quicker
I think DoW 2 hints on the kind of system they'd have in place
Similar to DDO I would imagine the particular classing you choose will open up the options as you gain levels in combat
I trust THQ knows what they're doing cause as of yet they haven't truly screwed up the WH40k DoW series.
But really the game will definately have to be an MMOFPS/RPG hybrid to stay anywhere close to the fluff.
As for what the editor said about Racial pairings...It's a bit off key imho
Orks & Chaos? Not hardly, Unless there's some Orks still stupid enough to buy their lies.
I made the comment before under the actual heading of the WH40k announcement
Pairings SHOULD be
Imperium of Man: IG, Inquisition (more than just the SoB are out there), Space Marines
Orks
The Ancient Eldar: Craftworld Eldar, Dark Eldar
Forces of Chaos (all inclusive) (This one and the one below it should adhere pretty tightly to the fluff)
Empire of Tau (All inclusive)
NPC Race Mobs - Necrons and Tyranids (I'm sure some will probably argue this point til it's beating a dead horse but honestly both of these are reliant upon Hive mind archetype and thusly cannot be player owned)
For the universe I would say they have the Core home planets as the start points and then one faction world followed with one conquerable world for each.
So all in all you're only looking at 10 planets to fix up, plus the moons if you wish to include those.
And much like WoW I would assume they'd insert notable characters from the official fluff.
I think people are taking it too seriously. Really, it should be quite easy for them to come up with a good game out of this. They probably won't appease the hard-core lore fanatics. But do they have to? Those people are in the minority anyway. As long as they do a decent job, it should be fine. Hell, people are still complaining about the lore in WoW, eventhough it's their own game and they can do with it whatever they want!
As for the gameplay itself. Just make sure there is very substantial PvP, and that you have more than two factions, and you're all set. Everything else can be expanded upon in the future. But the number of factions is something they absolutely have to get right.
Personally, I'd like to see a system where the players can form factions. Like if a few guilds get together and ally with each other, they could collectively secede from their original faction and make their own, becoming enemies of the original faction. That way it's more organic, and if there's a need for 4, 5 or 10 factions it could happen of its own volition. I *think* that's the way it's set up in EVE (but I'm not sure on this).
But even if they choose to limit it, just make sure it's more than 2 for god's sake. This is just absolutely totally crucial.
The chance to play as an Eldar Aspect Warrior? Nom nom nom!
The Eldars Warrior Path is literally the perfect idea for an MMO. Start off as a simple Citizen Soldier as a Guardian and eventually end up becoming an Exarch or Autarch.
The entire process would also make for a thrilling levelling path as entire journey can be done with the purpose of one day embracing Khaine and taking upon one of the many famous names and armor of those Exarch's who have gone before you.
i would play a game with even half the features you just described.
Oh and as for the WW2O reference, you can't jump into vehicles when you are in the battlefield, you have to spawn in as one (and you can't leave it).
That system coupled with a sweet customisation system would make a very solid combat system where you have tanks and infantry working together (as the tank crew cannot exit the tank and the infantry get the benefit of having a big portable gun to help them take out armoured stuff)
MMO wish list:
-Changeable worlds -Solid non level based game -Sharks with lasers attached to their heads
I'm sorry but to all you who think that 3 factions or more will balance the populations, past precedent shows this is a mistake. You can look at both Planetside and Dark Age of Camelot as proof and I can only imagine how much more of a problem 4 or more factions would cause. What good would a game be with 4 factions but its still 80% space marines and 5% each of orks, chaos and eldar? MOre factions has no protection against that.
On most Planetside servers except one that I can recall, the Vanu was the lowest populated faction. On all of those servers, the top 2 factions pounded the weakest faction because it increased their odds for success. It was possible to actually hold territory because the weakest faction couldn't mount enough reinforcements to take it back.
This same trend was apparent in Dark Age of Camelot. The only difference is that the weakest factions varied from server to server.
Also I beg t differ with one of WAR's problems being the popularity of scenarios over open world pvp. The reason scenarios were popular is because they were accessible and the most fun for the most people. Well and the rewards system for them was straightforward and not broken. Open pvp may have the highest potential for the most fun with dozens of allies battling dozens of foes, but those moments were so rare. Most of the time, again, we run into the path of least resistance problems. If the challenge was too tough for one side, they left for undefended capture points in frustration. And so the open pvp goose chase began with the strong force running around trying to undo the chicken tactics of the weaker force.
Another thing that killed open pvp aside from the multiple patchwork, grindy new rewards systems, was the diminishing xp returns for killing players. I understand the need to remove the incentive of killing the same player over and over as a griefing prevention. However, in large scale pvp it quickly became completely worthless to kill each other over and over for minimal reknown and xp despite how fun it was. Diminishing returns should have been shut off in open pvp.
So, everyone continued to complain ever more loudly about how scenarios were killing open pvp. They let scenarios stagnate while putting tremendous effort into open pvp. They should have run the numbers. Most people would rather participate in a scenario with a fun factor of 80 every 15-20 minutes, than open world pvp with a 100 fun factor once a day at best. I played WAR for 5 months and then came back for another 2 months and I can count on one hand the number of awesome open pvp experiences.
I would like to see scenarios expanded upon. I think it would be neat for a mid match call for reinforcements where 2 scenarios instances could combine. Hopefully it would be possible to do this such that mismatched instances are combined to even the sides out. (say one scenario the marines are whipping the eldar, and another the eldar are whipping the marines... combine them and let the chips fall where they may)
WAR failed before it ever had a chance of success because of the engine they created that game on, you needed a freaking super computer to even try to play that game. If they go that same route, I do not care how great the graphics are or how awesome the combat is, if only about a couple thousand players can even play it the game is doomed to failure before it ever gets off the ground.
They need to be very realistic in their approach to this game, WAR how great potential, you can figure that out just by how many people signed up to the beta, but Mythic blew it over and over again before it ever got released. Would love to see a 3 faction system, anything more than that and you are watering it down too much from 'expectations', than a reality. And for the love that is all good and holy in the universe keep "battlegrounds" out of this game, was one of the stupidest idea's Mythic tried /cough stole /cough from WoW! Really hope they do this game justice, I think we all want that.
I'm oblivious to Warhammer. Can someone help me out What is Warhammer 40k? Is it going to be a true MMO for PCs? Like a fantasy MMO? sci-fi rather than fantasy don't know if it's going to be a true mmo though Thanks ; )
The 41st Millennium is a savage future age where Mankind must battle for survival in a galaxy riven by bloodshed and destruction. Humanity teeters on the brink of extinction, assailed on all sides by aliens, traitors and Daemons, and only the superhuman strength of the Space Marines and the uncountable numbers of the Imperial Guard stand between the slavering alien hordes and total annihilation.
The issue with the 2 stronger factions ganging up on the weaker one shouldn't be a problem. You have to ask yourself, what is the game about? If it's about gaining territory, then once the weaker faction lost it, there is no more reason to attack it now is there? If it's about getting relics which buff you daoc style, then the same thing, once a faction loses it, there's no more reason to attack them. Once a faction wins, the rewards for beating them should increase several-fold. So the more one faction wins, the more incentive there is for the other 2 (or more) to gang up on them.
This will only become a problem if they put in some sort of reward system that will reward the stronger faction for continuously beating on the weak one. Which is exactly what a 2 faction system does. On every server there's one faction that's strong, and it beats the weaker one. Once they beat the weaker one, they become even stronger, so they're even harder to defeat. Until that side gets bored with constantly winning and quits the game due to stagnation. Or a patch over-buffs the other side. Then it flips to that side, and the whole thing repeats.
This is why more than 2 factions is crucial. If you're saying that 90% of the people will play the OPd faction, then that's a game-design flaw in that there is an OPd faction to begin with. But if you have several completely symmetrical (power-wise) factions, then this shouldn't be a problem. Which is why I think it's even more crucial to let the players form their own factions.
And, I agree that in WAR scenarios were more popular and more fun than oRvR, so most people chose them. The problem most of the people that I know, that played WAR, had with oRvR, is that by definition you go out there and you die on the spot. Simply because so many people fight at one spot. Factor in ridiculous AoE, and you have a gankfest. And it has to be this way too. Cause if people could actually survive for more than 2 seconds in oRvR, then not only will it last forever, but that survivability will totally break small-scale encounters.
So if WAR40k revolves completely around a scenario-like system, I'll be happy with that. And I know many others that would as well.
Also, since we're on the subject of making wishes, please for the love of god, don't do healbitches in this game. I beg of you. The entire tank/heal/dps thing REALLY got old by now. This whole reliance on healers bullshit that's been going on in these games just has to go.
And I don't know about the WAR40k lore, but does it even have healers? Does it have tanks? Not the vehicles I mean, but units that do practically no damage but also can take a lot? I would love to see this old archetype notion get eradicated.
This is how I imagine the game will turn out. I imagine a mass effect style combat system along with 3 or 4 different offensive abilities (depending on the class) that the player can use, and then a couple buffs and non-combat orientated moves. I also see them putting in some sort of lock on system, like in the first fable, to make combat seem a little more fluid for melee classes. The leveling system would be like the first mass effect, where you specialized in a few of a bunch of different fields as you leveled.
The main thing for this game is the combat. If it's not fast paced and brutal, it won't be very good. Well, let's hope for the best.
1) Faction/PVP: I'm of two minds here. On one hand, I am SICK to death of the "Everyone gets lumped into 2-3 sides and you're not allowed to interact with the enemy save stabbing them". On the other, I don't see a Choas Marine and an Imperial Guardsman standing side-by-side fighting a Tau and a Dark Eldar. The most obvious faction setup in my mind would be Order, Chaos, and Other.
Order would contain the Eldar and Humans (Space Marines/Imperial Guards/SoBs/Psykers)
Chaos Would Contain the Dark Eldar and the Chaos Space Marines/demons/tainted Psykers
Other would have the Orks and the Tau.
The Necrons, Tyranid, etc are best left as NPC races/mobs
The only other option is to let each race serve as its own faction, which will die if any one race is unpopular. (unless an NPC balancing system like that planned for WAR is made and works)
2) Vehicles. Leave these as battlefield/quest props like in WoW, or make them like the tanks and such in early Planetside where infantry were still needed to accomplish objectives and could with the proper loadout deal with vehicles. DO NOT LET ANYTHING RESEMBLING A BFR IN PVP! That means no pilotable Titans/Gargants/Wraithlords.Not in PVP anyway, the balance shifts too heavily in favor of them.
3) Space travel. Gotta be instant ports via the Warp. It's just impractical for anything else to work without building an entire secondary system around the Fleets; If you insist on that being in wait an expansion or two.
4) Combat: Something like TR or even DDO (Combination of FPS and standard MMO) seems best. Action-packed and fun. Make terrain/cover matter.
5) Character Advancement: Has to be at least partly class-based. Sorry, I don't see someone taking points in Space Marine Armor to get Terminator suits, then taking a few points in Psyker, then getting Assault Trooper jump packs being fair. Or even working with the lore. Let each "class" be a framework for dozens of potential skills and flexible potential, but make sure a Marine is a Marine and a MadBoy is a Madboy.
6) Lore: Take a lesson in what NOT to due from EA Mythic. Don't play fast and loose with the lore one minute, then lore nazi the next. Don't make female dwarves to appease the players, then refuse to make female Chosen. Look, Marines have to be men, SoBs have to be female, Orks have to be green.
7) Scale: Read the first sentence of part 6 again. Don't promise way more than you can provide. Don't tell us we'll have 6 starting areas with massive campaigns and unique capital cities, then scrap 99% of it. Don't get people's hopes up that X class will be in at launch, then change your mind at the last minute.
8) The Holy Trinity: Lose it. 40k doesn't need it. obviously you'll have some more defensive guys, and some battlefield healers, but not to the point of crystalizing everything into 3 unbreakable roles. Planetside had teh idea pre-Core Combat. Keep it that way.
Okay I think we can all agree there needs to be a minimum of 3 factions, at least 2 of which need to be player factions.
The Imperium being together just makes sense. Your Space Marines, Daemon Hunters, Sisters of Battle, Imperial Guard, etc. That's a given. This has to be a player faction, especially the space marines. They are THE iconic group of the game. The rest of the Imperium is nice, but there's varying degrees of necessity.
The Eldar make sense as a playable faction, because they're seen as a "good" race, for the most part. They adhere to higher ideals and such. They're pretty popular and you get all the cool uber-futuristic technology while still being pretty alien. There's no way the Imperium would ever work with them, because they think the only good alien is a dead alien. This immediately creates a point of conflict for them to go up against the Imperium. Now on their own they're pretty powerful, but I see a good point for an ally with them in the Tau. The Tau also have super futuristic technology, are definately alien, and are always talking about the greater good. I think if any two alien factions allied, it would be the Eldar and the Tau. In addition to being my favourite race, the Tau bring a sense of working together to the table, the urge to unify that could see them reaching out to the Eldar, who may be worried about being overwhelmed with all the enemies set upon them. The Tau have the cool robotic stuff, rail guns and seeker drones and so-on. I've heard them described as anime-inspired, which could be good or bad depending on your view. Think of the cool mecha animes kinda like macross or gundam. Unfortunately the rest of the armies are too diametrically opposed to these two races, so you'd only get the two. We could call this the "(Good) Alien" faction.
Orks. You can't forget about the orks. They got guns, they paint things red to make em go faster, they're unique and charismatic in a number of ways. What they really care about is fighting and being the strongest. However they're not too smart. While we could have them alone, I don't think we're going to get too far with Orks by themselves. I think if pressed, the Orks could be convinced to work alongside the Dark Eldar. They're pirates, they like taking slaves, and generally being depraved. They might see the Orks as a battering ram to be directed rather than a foe to be fought. Plus how far can you really get trying to torture an Ork? They only really care about fighting anyways. This makes them unlikely but believable bedfellows in trying to cause havoc in the universe. I think this could be a player or npc faction. It would have to be done just right to be playable, but I'm sure there are many people who really would like the chance.
This leaves the Tyranids, the Necrons, and Chaos. These would be the hardest to make playable. Honestly I don't see any of them having any reason to work together either. The tyranids and necrons are both pretty mindless hive entities, opposed to eachother at biological/technological levels. Chaos are only interested in serving their own Dark Gods nefarious wills. Perhaps you could have Chaos working together with the Dark Eldar, but I think that would be a bit of a stretch. I think you'd have to make these 3 seperate factions, and npc only. As much as any of them seem like they would be cool to play, there really isn't much in there for story and so-on besides kill and mutilate because the big brain says so. I know the Chaos marines are slightly different, but really they do follow what their chosen diety tells em to.
So we could easily get 2-4 factions out of the lore, if we had to. I think we'd need at least 2 to feel like it was a true war. Three would be better, which could work as you can see from starcraft (*cough*ripoff*cough* ) or even four if balanced properly and with the proper motivation. You'd definately have to have an incentive to play a lower population race (more exp, bonuses in combat, etc), and I'm pretty sure the Imperium faction would be the most populated.
I think we can all safely say that the Vigil games people certainly have a very careful path to tread, as we all want this done right.
"Because it's easier to nitpick something than to be constructive." -roach5000
Comments
MUST HAVE TYRANID PLAYERABLE FACTION.
Amen.
The problem with Tyranid's is... they have no free will of their own. Seriously, it's a hive mind, so they're being directed by the hive ships in orbit so it just goes against the lore to have Tyranids as a playable race/faction/whatever. It's the same problem with the Necron's, but everybody else is fine. ^^ Bring on the Tau I say, bring on the Fire Caste!
Playing: LoL x3
Played: RS, WoW, SWG, TR, Aion, AoC, EVE, SWTOR
Watching: FireFall, GW2
I agree that the a SMs are the best all around troops, throw most situations at them and they have a decent chance. They do well at range and in melee but there are better at both in many armies. Depends on the situation you want to put them in.
It seems like we are mostly in agreement at this time.
I love IG too btw.
love killing those superhumans with massed lasgun fire lol
I always thought a game based on the rivaling factions within the imperium would have made more sense. You have the marines, the Inquisition, the Mechanicum, the Ecclesiarchy, various rough traders, gang members, bounty hunters and nobility and more. Then you have the option of being a radical or a puritan, a follower of chaos or the god emperor. Do you collect Alien artifacts and items or are you appalled by them.
This allows for one PVE faction, but 2 or even more PVP factions. Say followers of chaos enter a instance at one end and the good guys enter at the other end and then you have a race to the objective with pvp thrown in. (Sounds a bit like Dregion from Aion but you get the idea).
Most of the factions I've listed are also more free in their choices of equipment imo. An inquisitor can wear anything from a robe to power or even terminator armor. They might also have access to psychic powers while a faction like Tech priest have access to ancient tech. I guess Marines are the ones most restricted in this fashion. they are how ever at the core of what most consider to be 40k. Personally i don't mind, and might even prefer not having space marines as a playable faction.
For a game with a at least partial focus on ranged fire fights i think a good cover system would add a nice level of tactical game play. Like the system thats planed for the smugglers in the old republic, but you know, available for everyone.
Having said that i would still be more then happy with just a Dawn of War online.
Enough ranting... Its time for bed.
' to be a man in such times is to be one amongst untold billions. It is to live in the cruellest and most bloody regime imaginable. This is the tale of those times. It is a universe you can live in today if you dare, for this is a dark and terrible era where you will find little comfort to hope. Forget the promise of progress and understanding, for there is no peace amongst the stars only an eternity of carnage and slaughter and the laughter of thirsting gods.'
If they manage to turn this incredible setting into some tween WAR cartoon then I'm off.
I really think that taking Warhammer 40k into the mmo world just will not translate well. It would be absolutely marvelous if it worked out, but I just don't see it playing out well. Chock my negative attitude to our string of bad choices since the first mmo rolled out after WoW.
Apparently you misspelled tyranids as chaos.
Apparently you haven't bothered to read my posts. I have been referring to WAR. Last I checked it did not have Tyranids.
Learn to read before trolling.
No.
I believe i will troll wherever and whenever and however i like.
Apparently stating the truth in my sig is "trolling"
Sig typo fixed thanks to an observant stragen001.
What makes you think they want to? As far as some are concerned FFA Full Loot says it all. Of course, that totally niches the game at launch(in the west). But thats simply the price one pays for a sand box game...<rolls eyes>. I'm hoping that they have more common sense than that(or at least I'm hoping their investors do...). The 40K lore is very rich and deep, and so many things can be done with it, it would be a shame if their approach drops them into a narrow niche, and thus limits its potential audience(and development).
Interface wise, perhaps over the shoulder for most things, but switching to first person for sniping and melee combat? Everyone starts out with training for the basic weapons and armor, but the heavy gear takes specialized training.
How about they start by making it an actual mmorpg rather than the current trend of making a single player game expanded to multiplayer to get it out of the door quicker
I think DoW 2 hints on the kind of system they'd have in place
Similar to DDO I would imagine the particular classing you choose will open up the options as you gain levels in combat
I trust THQ knows what they're doing cause as of yet they haven't truly screwed up the WH40k DoW series.
But really the game will definately have to be an MMOFPS/RPG hybrid to stay anywhere close to the fluff.
As for what the editor said about Racial pairings...It's a bit off key imho
Orks & Chaos? Not hardly, Unless there's some Orks still stupid enough to buy their lies.
I made the comment before under the actual heading of the WH40k announcement
Pairings SHOULD be
Imperium of Man: IG, Inquisition (more than just the SoB are out there), Space Marines
Orks
The Ancient Eldar: Craftworld Eldar, Dark Eldar
Forces of Chaos (all inclusive) (This one and the one below it should adhere pretty tightly to the fluff)
Empire of Tau (All inclusive)
NPC Race Mobs - Necrons and Tyranids (I'm sure some will probably argue this point til it's beating a dead horse but honestly both of these are reliant upon Hive mind archetype and thusly cannot be player owned)
For the universe I would say they have the Core home planets as the start points and then one faction world followed with one conquerable world for each.
So all in all you're only looking at 10 planets to fix up, plus the moons if you wish to include those.
And much like WoW I would assume they'd insert notable characters from the official fluff.
I think people are taking it too seriously. Really, it should be quite easy for them to come up with a good game out of this. They probably won't appease the hard-core lore fanatics. But do they have to? Those people are in the minority anyway. As long as they do a decent job, it should be fine. Hell, people are still complaining about the lore in WoW, eventhough it's their own game and they can do with it whatever they want!
As for the gameplay itself. Just make sure there is very substantial PvP, and that you have more than two factions, and you're all set. Everything else can be expanded upon in the future. But the number of factions is something they absolutely have to get right.
Personally, I'd like to see a system where the players can form factions. Like if a few guilds get together and ally with each other, they could collectively secede from their original faction and make their own, becoming enemies of the original faction. That way it's more organic, and if there's a need for 4, 5 or 10 factions it could happen of its own volition. I *think* that's the way it's set up in EVE (but I'm not sure on this).
But even if they choose to limit it, just make sure it's more than 2 for god's sake. This is just absolutely totally crucial.
I'm oblivious to Warhammer. Can someone help me out:
What is Warhammer 40k? Is it going to be a true MMO for PCs? Like a fantasy MMO?
Thanks
; )
The chance to play as an Eldar Aspect Warrior? Nom nom nom!
The Eldars Warrior Path is literally the perfect idea for an MMO. Start off as a simple Citizen Soldier as a Guardian and eventually end up becoming an Exarch or Autarch.
The entire process would also make for a thrilling levelling path as entire journey can be done with the purpose of one day embracing Khaine and taking upon one of the many famous names and armor of those Exarch's who have gone before you.
i would play a game with even half the features you just described.
Oh and as for the WW2O reference, you can't jump into vehicles when you are in the battlefield, you have to spawn in as one (and you can't leave it).
That system coupled with a sweet customisation system would make a very solid combat system where you have tanks and infantry working together (as the tank crew cannot exit the tank and the infantry get the benefit of having a big portable gun to help them take out armoured stuff)
MMO wish list:
-Changeable worlds
-Solid non level based game
-Sharks with lasers attached to their heads
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warhammer_40,000
Hope that helps.
Prax
Its classic space opera. Look up the details here. warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Warhammer_40k_Wiki
If this gets screwed up like WAR, I'm just gonna cry ;;
Bans a perma, but so are sigs in necro posts.
EAT ME MMORPG.com!
I'm sorry but to all you who think that 3 factions or more will balance the populations, past precedent shows this is a mistake. You can look at both Planetside and Dark Age of Camelot as proof and I can only imagine how much more of a problem 4 or more factions would cause. What good would a game be with 4 factions but its still 80% space marines and 5% each of orks, chaos and eldar? MOre factions has no protection against that.
On most Planetside servers except one that I can recall, the Vanu was the lowest populated faction. On all of those servers, the top 2 factions pounded the weakest faction because it increased their odds for success. It was possible to actually hold territory because the weakest faction couldn't mount enough reinforcements to take it back.
This same trend was apparent in Dark Age of Camelot. The only difference is that the weakest factions varied from server to server.
Also I beg t differ with one of WAR's problems being the popularity of scenarios over open world pvp. The reason scenarios were popular is because they were accessible and the most fun for the most people. Well and the rewards system for them was straightforward and not broken. Open pvp may have the highest potential for the most fun with dozens of allies battling dozens of foes, but those moments were so rare. Most of the time, again, we run into the path of least resistance problems. If the challenge was too tough for one side, they left for undefended capture points in frustration. And so the open pvp goose chase began with the strong force running around trying to undo the chicken tactics of the weaker force.
Another thing that killed open pvp aside from the multiple patchwork, grindy new rewards systems, was the diminishing xp returns for killing players. I understand the need to remove the incentive of killing the same player over and over as a griefing prevention. However, in large scale pvp it quickly became completely worthless to kill each other over and over for minimal reknown and xp despite how fun it was. Diminishing returns should have been shut off in open pvp.
So, everyone continued to complain ever more loudly about how scenarios were killing open pvp. They let scenarios stagnate while putting tremendous effort into open pvp. They should have run the numbers. Most people would rather participate in a scenario with a fun factor of 80 every 15-20 minutes, than open world pvp with a 100 fun factor once a day at best. I played WAR for 5 months and then came back for another 2 months and I can count on one hand the number of awesome open pvp experiences.
I would like to see scenarios expanded upon. I think it would be neat for a mid match call for reinforcements where 2 scenarios instances could combine. Hopefully it would be possible to do this such that mismatched instances are combined to even the sides out. (say one scenario the marines are whipping the eldar, and another the eldar are whipping the marines... combine them and let the chips fall where they may)
WAR failed before it ever had a chance of success because of the engine they created that game on, you needed a freaking super computer to even try to play that game. If they go that same route, I do not care how great the graphics are or how awesome the combat is, if only about a couple thousand players can even play it the game is doomed to failure before it ever gets off the ground.
They need to be very realistic in their approach to this game, WAR how great potential, you can figure that out just by how many people signed up to the beta, but Mythic blew it over and over again before it ever got released. Would love to see a 3 faction system, anything more than that and you are watering it down too much from 'expectations', than a reality. And for the love that is all good and holy in the universe keep "battlegrounds" out of this game, was one of the stupidest idea's Mythic tried /cough stole /cough from WoW! Really hope they do this game justice, I think we all want that.
or there's the official games workshop site at
www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp
should also have a few links if u need more info
Welcome to Warhammer 40,000
The 41st Millennium is a savage future age where Mankind must battle for survival in a galaxy riven by bloodshed and destruction. Humanity teeters on the brink of extinction, assailed on all sides by aliens, traitors and Daemons, and only the superhuman strength of the Space Marines and the uncountable numbers of the Imperial Guard stand between the slavering alien hordes and total annihilation.
The issue with the 2 stronger factions ganging up on the weaker one shouldn't be a problem. You have to ask yourself, what is the game about? If it's about gaining territory, then once the weaker faction lost it, there is no more reason to attack it now is there? If it's about getting relics which buff you daoc style, then the same thing, once a faction loses it, there's no more reason to attack them. Once a faction wins, the rewards for beating them should increase several-fold. So the more one faction wins, the more incentive there is for the other 2 (or more) to gang up on them.
This will only become a problem if they put in some sort of reward system that will reward the stronger faction for continuously beating on the weak one. Which is exactly what a 2 faction system does. On every server there's one faction that's strong, and it beats the weaker one. Once they beat the weaker one, they become even stronger, so they're even harder to defeat. Until that side gets bored with constantly winning and quits the game due to stagnation. Or a patch over-buffs the other side. Then it flips to that side, and the whole thing repeats.
This is why more than 2 factions is crucial. If you're saying that 90% of the people will play the OPd faction, then that's a game-design flaw in that there is an OPd faction to begin with. But if you have several completely symmetrical (power-wise) factions, then this shouldn't be a problem. Which is why I think it's even more crucial to let the players form their own factions.
And, I agree that in WAR scenarios were more popular and more fun than oRvR, so most people chose them. The problem most of the people that I know, that played WAR, had with oRvR, is that by definition you go out there and you die on the spot. Simply because so many people fight at one spot. Factor in ridiculous AoE, and you have a gankfest. And it has to be this way too. Cause if people could actually survive for more than 2 seconds in oRvR, then not only will it last forever, but that survivability will totally break small-scale encounters.
So if WAR40k revolves completely around a scenario-like system, I'll be happy with that. And I know many others that would as well.
Also, since we're on the subject of making wishes, please for the love of god, don't do healbitches in this game. I beg of you. The entire tank/heal/dps thing REALLY got old by now. This whole reliance on healers bullshit that's been going on in these games just has to go.
And I don't know about the WAR40k lore, but does it even have healers? Does it have tanks? Not the vehicles I mean, but units that do practically no damage but also can take a lot? I would love to see this old archetype notion get eradicated.
This is how I imagine the game will turn out. I imagine a mass effect style combat system along with 3 or 4 different offensive abilities (depending on the class) that the player can use, and then a couple buffs and non-combat orientated moves. I also see them putting in some sort of lock on system, like in the first fable, to make combat seem a little more fluid for melee classes. The leveling system would be like the first mass effect, where you specialized in a few of a bunch of different fields as you leveled.
The main thing for this game is the combat. If it's not fast paced and brutal, it won't be very good. Well, let's hope for the best.
OK a whole lot to talk about here.
1) Faction/PVP: I'm of two minds here. On one hand, I am SICK to death of the "Everyone gets lumped into 2-3 sides and you're not allowed to interact with the enemy save stabbing them". On the other, I don't see a Choas Marine and an Imperial Guardsman standing side-by-side fighting a Tau and a Dark Eldar. The most obvious faction setup in my mind would be Order, Chaos, and Other.
2) Vehicles. Leave these as battlefield/quest props like in WoW, or make them like the tanks and such in early Planetside where infantry were still needed to accomplish objectives and could with the proper loadout deal with vehicles. DO NOT LET ANYTHING RESEMBLING A BFR IN PVP! That means no pilotable Titans/Gargants/Wraithlords.Not in PVP anyway, the balance shifts too heavily in favor of them.
3) Space travel. Gotta be instant ports via the Warp. It's just impractical for anything else to work without building an entire secondary system around the Fleets; If you insist on that being in wait an expansion or two.
4) Combat: Something like TR or even DDO (Combination of FPS and standard MMO) seems best. Action-packed and fun. Make terrain/cover matter.
5) Character Advancement: Has to be at least partly class-based. Sorry, I don't see someone taking points in Space Marine Armor to get Terminator suits, then taking a few points in Psyker, then getting Assault Trooper jump packs being fair. Or even working with the lore. Let each "class" be a framework for dozens of potential skills and flexible potential, but make sure a Marine is a Marine and a MadBoy is a Madboy.
6) Lore: Take a lesson in what NOT to due from EA Mythic. Don't play fast and loose with the lore one minute, then lore nazi the next. Don't make female dwarves to appease the players, then refuse to make female Chosen. Look, Marines have to be men, SoBs have to be female, Orks have to be green.
7) Scale: Read the first sentence of part 6 again. Don't promise way more than you can provide. Don't tell us we'll have 6 starting areas with massive campaigns and unique capital cities, then scrap 99% of it. Don't get people's hopes up that X class will be in at launch, then change your mind at the last minute.
8) The Holy Trinity: Lose it. 40k doesn't need it. obviously you'll have some more defensive guys, and some battlefield healers, but not to the point of crystalizing everything into 3 unbreakable roles. Planetside had teh idea pre-Core Combat. Keep it that way.
Okay I think we can all agree there needs to be a minimum of 3 factions, at least 2 of which need to be player factions.
The Imperium being together just makes sense. Your Space Marines, Daemon Hunters, Sisters of Battle, Imperial Guard, etc. That's a given. This has to be a player faction, especially the space marines. They are THE iconic group of the game. The rest of the Imperium is nice, but there's varying degrees of necessity.
The Eldar make sense as a playable faction, because they're seen as a "good" race, for the most part. They adhere to higher ideals and such. They're pretty popular and you get all the cool uber-futuristic technology while still being pretty alien. There's no way the Imperium would ever work with them, because they think the only good alien is a dead alien. This immediately creates a point of conflict for them to go up against the Imperium. Now on their own they're pretty powerful, but I see a good point for an ally with them in the Tau. The Tau also have super futuristic technology, are definately alien, and are always talking about the greater good. I think if any two alien factions allied, it would be the Eldar and the Tau. In addition to being my favourite race, the Tau bring a sense of working together to the table, the urge to unify that could see them reaching out to the Eldar, who may be worried about being overwhelmed with all the enemies set upon them. The Tau have the cool robotic stuff, rail guns and seeker drones and so-on. I've heard them described as anime-inspired, which could be good or bad depending on your view. Think of the cool mecha animes kinda like macross or gundam. Unfortunately the rest of the armies are too diametrically opposed to these two races, so you'd only get the two. We could call this the "(Good) Alien" faction.
Orks. You can't forget about the orks. They got guns, they paint things red to make em go faster, they're unique and charismatic in a number of ways. What they really care about is fighting and being the strongest. However they're not too smart. While we could have them alone, I don't think we're going to get too far with Orks by themselves. I think if pressed, the Orks could be convinced to work alongside the Dark Eldar. They're pirates, they like taking slaves, and generally being depraved. They might see the Orks as a battering ram to be directed rather than a foe to be fought. Plus how far can you really get trying to torture an Ork? They only really care about fighting anyways. This makes them unlikely but believable bedfellows in trying to cause havoc in the universe. I think this could be a player or npc faction. It would have to be done just right to be playable, but I'm sure there are many people who really would like the chance.
This leaves the Tyranids, the Necrons, and Chaos. These would be the hardest to make playable. Honestly I don't see any of them having any reason to work together either. The tyranids and necrons are both pretty mindless hive entities, opposed to eachother at biological/technological levels. Chaos are only interested in serving their own Dark Gods nefarious wills. Perhaps you could have Chaos working together with the Dark Eldar, but I think that would be a bit of a stretch. I think you'd have to make these 3 seperate factions, and npc only. As much as any of them seem like they would be cool to play, there really isn't much in there for story and so-on besides kill and mutilate because the big brain says so. I know the Chaos marines are slightly different, but really they do follow what their chosen diety tells em to.
So we could easily get 2-4 factions out of the lore, if we had to. I think we'd need at least 2 to feel like it was a true war. Three would be better, which could work as you can see from starcraft (*cough*ripoff*cough*
) or even four if balanced properly and with the proper motivation. You'd definately have to have an incentive to play a lower population race (more exp, bonuses in combat, etc), and I'm pretty sure the Imperium faction would be the most populated.
I think we can all safely say that the Vigil games people certainly have a very careful path to tread, as we all want this done right.
"Because it's easier to nitpick something than to be constructive." -roach5000