Most of the replies here revolve around combat, PvE or PvP, and that's fine. WAR basically limited itself to combat and for that reason and because the combat was meaningless and unbalanced it failed. So whatever they do, they need to give ppl alternative gameplay-mechanics when they don't want to fight. Combat is good and everything, but sometimes i just want to chill, do something else while being in my favorite MMO, improve on my char beyond the range of items and armour. Give me alternatives, give me plenty of meaningful stuff to do and a truly persistent world our actions can shape and modify. Explore the lore beyond just using it as a backdrop for quests. Ppl still eat, drink, wear clothing, indulge in entertainment. I want dark bars on vast space ships or i want to learn how to make the best neuro-implants there are. Let me distill alcohol and sell it to the latest recruits who want to drown their latest nightmares come true. Let me manufacture battle drugs or soothing drugs, or halucinative drugs. Or better let me be the high-tech cook. Inventing new food surrogates with all sorts of effects. Give me some recipes, make them modular, let me combine them to come up with something new. The devs need to think of what ppl do in this setting when they don't fight and kill each other. I can play a shooter only for some hours a day, we haven't heard of anyone yet who collapsed from exhaustion because he played too much CS. If a company wants players to stay in their game 24/7, they need to give them more than just combat and combat centric gameplay. They need to give them more than just a WAR, they need to give them a world.
I suggest you to document a lot better before writing a pile of rubbish like this.
Most of the replies here revolve around combat, PvE or PvP, and that's fine. WAR basically limited itself to combat and for that reason and because the combat was meaningless and unbalanced it failed. So whatever they do, they need to give ppl alternative gameplay-mechanics when they don't want to fight. Combat is good and everything, but sometimes i just want to chill, do something else while being in my favorite MMO, improve on my char beyond the range of items and armour. Give me alternatives, give me plenty of meaningful stuff to do and a truly persistent world our actions can shape and modify. Explore the lore beyond just using it as a backdrop for quests. Ppl still eat, drink, wear clothing, indulge in entertainment. I want dark bars on vast space ships or i want to learn how to make the best neuro-implants there are. Let me distill alcohol and sell it to the latest recruits who want to drown their latest nightmares come true. Let me manufacture battle drugs or soothing drugs, or halucinative drugs. Or better let me be the high-tech cook. Inventing new food surrogates with all sorts of effects. Give me some recipes, make them modular, let me combine them to come up with something new. The devs need to think of what ppl do in this setting when they don't fight and kill each other. I can play a shooter only for some hours a day, we haven't heard of anyone yet who collapsed from exhaustion because he played too much CS. If a company wants players to stay in their game 24/7, they need to give them more than just combat and combat centric gameplay. They need to give them more than just a WAR, they need to give them a world.
I suggest you to document a lot better before writing a pile of rubbish like this.
Thanks for your informative reply. I really don't know where to start answering your criticism, hmm? Maybe you tell me first what you think constitutes the rubbish?
Thanks for the link though, but to point it out, that wiki is only concerned with the tabletop, there is also a RPG, you know that, no? So while the tabletop naturally is only concerned with combat, the RPG is not.
Looking forward to hear from you in more than two sentences.
The enthusiastic responses here show how hard it will be to please everyone regardless of what they do.
That said, for me a couple things will be key:
1. First and foremost - FUN; yes it needs progression, lore, immersion and all that...but is it fun to play? No one would mind the "grind" if it was entertaining. This is something that WAR seriously missed out on. The BGs were fun....the public areas and pve were one of the most boring grinds around.
2. Second only to fun is LORE: they really need to get the look, feel and atmosphere of the game right or all us W40k purists will rip them to shreds.
3. Multiple factions - doesn't matter if they start small (like 2-3)...but keep the faction war system OPEN ENDED so that Imperials can fight Orcs, Orcs can fight Eldar who can fight Tau etc....free for all, not the IDIOTIC forced alliances from WAR.
4. Tied with 3 really is that they get PvP right, it HAS to be there and it has be important and done well.
Lastly, and this is really more of a prayer than a realistic hope: They need to get CHAOS right! Chaos has to be intermingled with and the flip side of the Empire. If I cannot be a chaos cultist in an Imperial city or an inquisitor hunting them, they got it wrong. If I cannot be a loyal imperial who slowly goes bad and turns to chaos, they got it wrong.
PS as the previous poster mentioned I also agree there has to be MORE than just combat. so maybe #5 on the essentials list is crafting (better than the bad joke in WAR!); adeptus mechanicus, snotlings...rogue traders
I have been waiting years for this MMO. Lots of us have. I've been playing 40K since "blue book" which was the first version of the ruleset for tabletop, and since Meridian 59 came out have been fantasizing about a 40K MMO. Gamesworkshop has an incredible IP that could really go far. For me, all they need to do is give me the LORE that I want, and some half decent gameplay with rich character story, and I'm good. I could care less about endgame. I've never cared about endgame in an MMO, which to me, sees to be the dumbest thing in the world. The point of a sandbox isn't to "finish" or "beat" anything. But then, I don't have the attention span of a ferret.
Thanks for your informative reply. I really don't know where to start answering your criticism, hmm? Maybe you tell me first what you think constitutes the rubbish?
Thanks for the link though, but to point it out, that wiki is only concerned with the tabletop, there is also a RPG, you know that, no? So while the tabletop naturally is only concerned with combat, the RPG is not.
Looking forward to hear from you in more than two sentences.
Well no, lexicanum isn't relative only to the TT game (actualy i've never see anything about the TT game) but also to lore and everything that comes around warhammer 40k universe.
Famous and infamous character, history of the Imperium and other faction and so on.
And for answering your other question, i don't spend time arguing with someone that doesn't know nothing about a particular subject.
Because the task that you suggest in the first post usually are accomplished by servitor (at least in the imperium, other races like orks simply doesn't give a shit about those things).
Who wouldn't be a drooling lobotomized bunch of flesh?
I would rather see a Warmachine or a Shadowrun MMO anyday of the week than a 40k MMO
Gamesworkshop/Citadel cant even keep a ongoing set of rules or lore for the game. I hate to see what happens to the computer version
40k was the biggest rip off game of all the table top games ever made. I mean they would make entire army lists completely obsolete like every 3 years. I know I wasted way to much money on the game only to watch models become unplayable. army lists no longer composable. I would rather dump a load of cash into the sewage than waste my money on this game.
Which is funny because i still like Warhammer Fantasy Battle.
And for answering your other question, i don't spend time arguing with someone that doesn't know nothing about a particular subject. Because the task that you suggest in the first post usually are accomplished by servitor (at least in the imperium, other races like orks simply doesn't give a shit about those things). Who wouldn't be a drooling lobotomized bunch of flesh?
Like yourself? I really have no idea how you got this seriously twisted view of the Dark Millennium.
Ever heard of TECHMARINES? Yeah they are all drooling lobotomized idiots...right or the Adeptus Mechanicus? (who are not servitors, btw)...read any of the fiction and there are endless references to master crafted this or that, specialized gear and custom armors. Ever think that perhaps an 'Eldar CRAFT WORLD' makes things? Bonesingers? or the Tau tech castes? Even the ORKS have Mekboyz and the like....
So please, crawl back under whatever shroud of colossal ignorance made you try to dismiss crafting in a 40K universe.
Well, I've been thinking recently about how to incorporate real combat healers into 40kO without having the "cast = green bars!" feel that works with fantasy settings but does not work so well in 40k. A quite simple system could be used, involving HoT "heals" granted by using medikits with cooldowns (similar to potions but exempt from consumption rules) and ofc, the good old 'healers'.
For example, to prevent a player bleeding out from a wound (DoT damage), they could administer a blood clotting drug, which would effectively get rid of the DoT debuff. To increase a player's strength and speed, give them an adrenaline jab. To decrease their health loss/increase their toughness, feed them a handful of painkillers, as is done in actual canon lore. Not to leave out the healing part, an Apothecary or Pain Boy or Mad Dok or whoever could carry medikits which required specialist knowledge to use properly and give a better HoT than standard medikits.
Remember also that healers in 40k are not helpless in combat as they are in other MMOs. An Apothecary is not some random civilian brought in to tend the sick, this is an 8ft tall superhuman bred from childhood to be a warrior who battles for the survival of Mankind. Whatever his title is, he's still a killing machine. Same goes for Mad Doks - that's still a bloody big Ork, and possibly even more violent than your average greenskin! Farseers too, if they were to be a support class, are some of the most powerful psykers in the entire universe. All of these are not to be trifled with, at any rate.
P.S.For anyone who's reading this who's from warhammer40konline.net this is Bloodeye
And for answering your other question, i don't spend time arguing with someone that doesn't know nothing about a particular subject. Because the task that you suggest in the first post usually are accomplished by servitor (at least in the imperium, other races like orks simply doesn't give a shit about those things). Who wouldn't be a drooling lobotomized bunch of flesh?
Like yourself? I really have no idea how you got this seriously twisted view of the Dark Millennium.
Ever heard of TECHMARINES? Yeah they are all drooling lobotomized idiots...right or the Adeptus Mechanicus? (who are not servitors, btw)...read any of the fiction and there are endless references to master crafted this or that, specialized gear and custom armors. Ever think that perhaps an 'Eldar CRAFT WORLD' makes things? Bonesingers? or the Tau tech castes? Even the ORKS have Mekboyz and the like....
So please, crawl back under whatever shroud of colossal ignorance made you try to dismiss crafting in a 40K universe.
Well played. Saves me the page and half wall of text I was about to post.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Want to stay true to the lore of 40K and have space marines be more powerful then other races?
Make them an unlock - take a Gaurdsman to a certain point in game (level or skill-based or exp/kills) and then you get ONE unlock for a space marine. You then up your Guardsman to a space marine - or create a new marine.
And then what? Still unfair?
Permanent Death.
Then you get a reflection of the lore - they will always be outnumbered and once they are down - they are gone.
Perhaps you could unlock a Space Marine, but then you'd have to have Unlocks for each faction.
Also, on the subject of lore, and if you intended to make your Guardsman into a Marine that would be lore-breaking - Space Marines are selected from their recruiting worlds early in their teens so the organ implants can take effect and grow with the body.
WAR Online failed in this deparment. They chosed a simpler version or graphics and in my opinion it looked ugly. We need this game to fight side by side with games like AION or the upcoming TERA. It needs to be gorgeous! We want to see the beautiful Eldar, the complexity of TAU, the caos with Chaos Marines, etc.
Gameplay:
For this game i would use what other companies are already implementing. You have your main Character and you are followed by 2 or 3 companions, just like every troop in the WAR40K games. This has been made by Star Trek Online, Lotro (in some way with the skirmishes and the captain herald) & its being developed by Bioware for SWTOR. We need to feel we are in a war and that we have an army following us.
I don't want to see a FPSMMO. Its true that WAR40K has a lot of range unit but don't forget that almost all troops are equipped for melee combat.
Lots of MMO have a lot of ranged classes, and this does not break the balance with melee ones. You just need to give resources to the classes so they can fight each other. Example: melee classes have better defenses against ranged ones, haver some root abilities, etc. Its not hard to do if you do it right.
PVP:
You don't need to have factions to do it right. Lineage 2 offered 4 classes each with different motivations and goals. Elves, Dark Elves, Orcs and Humans, and all of them could fight each other, even them selfs. I didn't liked the fact that you could attack someone from your same race, but this can be easily fixed, only allowing pvp among different races. But what the heck, even if we have the factions the article described it wouldn't be so bad.
I don't like open pvp because it makes the game stressful, you have to be watching over your shoulder all the time, and this only makes the game less interesting for casual players. If you only have 1 or 2 hours a day to play, you don't want to do it in fear of someone coming to kill you every time you are doing something.
If we get pvp zones, there must be one or several for different lvls. 1-10, 11-20, etc. Its not fair only high lvl characters can enjoy the pvp.
The pvp system from WAR was nice in my opinion. You could jump into the fight at lvl 1 and still feel of some use for your group. The multiple zones for each lvl of pvp was nice.
Progression:
It has to be quest based. Everyone except Korean ppl hates Grinding for progression. Lotro has a very good quest based progression system. The WAR game didn't do that bad in this department, but please we don't want to kill 1000k enemies all day to gain a lvl.
Also, questing has to mean something. Not only go and kill 10 enemies and come back for a reward. Some story would be nice, to actually feel you are making a difference.
Reclaimable outpost for each faction or race could be nice, specially in the pvp areas. We want motivation for going out there to fight. We want some kind of reward. Example: We take the outpost and we must hold it for x amount of time before reinforcements arrive, and after that we get some quest from that outpost.
And finally, we want all races, not just some of them, we want them all: TAU, Chaos Marines, Eldar, Orcs, Space Marines, Imperial Guard, Tyranids and Necrons.
Why not get creative with this IP. Take aspects of the RTS games and plug them in. Take aspects from recent popular fps/action games and plug them in.
Generic MMO rules won't work
The whole universe is built on wide scale war billions of beings fighting billions of beings. Controlling one person makes no sense. Individuals don't fight wars. Also doesn't fit with the table top game.
Towns filled with morons paying you to be part of their clan doesn't seem like it would make sense in WH40K. Nor would an auction house filled with farmed goods and out of control economies.
Areana systems and dueling make no sense - friendly small battles for points or phat lootz or fighting allies to within an inch of life isn't something that screams WH40K.
Towns people that need odd jobs done would be ridiculous.
Quests that require X amount of something gathered or killed would be ridiculous. No space marine commander would say, kill 10 orks then you can come back here for a new bolter.
The list can go on and on...
What should happen...
Player Creation, Factions, guilds
Player Creation
Players should control a Fireteam of 5 members.
All 5 members can be chosen from a list of classes.
All 5 members are customized individually by the player.
They player then chooses which member is the NCO. That toon gets a boost in stats.
You then choose which Chapter, Ork clan, Tau clan etc... Further alters your stats.
Once you achieve a certain rank or level, you have the option of becoming a specialist, ie inquisitor, librarian, harliquin etc...
Guilds
Very few guilds in any game don't get more than a Company's worth of players if they are lucky. From what I can recall from my wow days, most guilds on my server only ever had Platoon Strength and rarely had 10 people on.
Guilds would be the equivalent of Platoons or Companies. They would have to align with a Chapter. members would have to switch to that chaper/clan etc.. if they were not originally aligned.
Guilds would have hard caps on membership.
Guilds would be given allocation points from the Chapter/Clan/Caste etc... From completing "raid content" or larger scale content for the accquisition of high power vehicles, transports etc...
Allocation points could be lost if guild level events fail. Sort of like the RTS, losing parts of the map.
Guilds would have a hard cap on heavy weapons or vehicles they could employ at a given time.
Factions
Forces of the Imperium
Imperial Guard · Space Marines · Sisters of Battle
Forces of Chaos
Chaos Space Marines · Dark Eldar
Alien races
Eldar · Tau ·
NPC Aliens, Enemies to all Factions - probable story lines, endgame content
Tyranids · Necrons · Orks
EXP, Leveling and Spells/Skills
I think it would be interesting to see a S.P.E.C.I.A.L. System in place,
Primary Statistics - Chosen from character creation screen - Can only change with items
* Strength
* Perception
* Endurance
* Charisma
* Intelligence
* Agility
* Luck
Derived Statistics - effected by items, based on Primary stats
* Action Points/energy/power
* Critical Chance
* Damage Resistance
* Fire Resistance
* Health
* Melee Damage
* Poison Resistance
* Radiation Resistance
* Unarmed Damage
Skills - Chosen at start - can be increased through training, items
Big Guns
Energy Weapons
Explosives
Medicine
Melee Weapons
Repair
Hacking
Small Guns
Sneak
Unarmed
Speech
Perks - Recieved at different level intervals
Obviously would coincide with WH40K terminology
Leveling occurs through survival of battles, use of skills, discovery of map.
I also think you should have access to all your classes powers at level 1. They would all be weak since you would be a new recruit and have battle experience. Your powers would not be something you would allocate points to. They would improve through use in combat.
Example,
Combat and movement skills improve as they are used. Ducking and firing will improve coresponding skills, Firing from cover will improve those skills.
or
Spells/powers, improve/upgrade if used. eg.100 grenade kills gives you improved accuracy or crit and so on.
***These skills automatically improve through use.
Game play
Each member can be controlled individually or the group can be given commands. Switching members should be seamless.
Tactical overhead view, 3rd person/over the shoulder and aiming reticle/down the barrel
All units regenerate health/power over time. All units have rudimentery healing abilties, medics can revive and group heal and have quick heals.
Squads with rounded out members have bonuses added ie, 1 heavy weapons, 1 sniper, 1 medic, 2 "riflemen"
Squads with 5 of the same also get bonuses as they become specialist squads - as seen in the RTS.
Squads with poor balance may start off with handicaps although may gain advantages in higher levels
No jumping or dancing - obsiticals have to be climbed over when approached.
Collision detection is a must.
Steal the reloading mechanic from GOW.
Steal the grenade mechanic from GOW.
Create a trick system/break/combo where you can gain temporary boosts to skills or spells if you get a head shot or multiple kill. Think of something your good at. You inevitable create away to do it better or improve the process or make it easier.
Deformable battle field terrian should be in the game.
Improve the squad controls from Mass Effect 2 and DA:O
Sniping would be extremely difficult. Easy head shots would distort power dynamics.
Cover system, height advantage/ tactical advantages should factor into damage calculation.
** Cover and AI squad members that use cover will be crucial to the game.
** AI switching between melee and ranged at appropriate times is also crucial.
Items and Loot
All armor and weapons are standard with standard attributes.
Armor is classed Light Medium, heavy, super heavy, affects movement speed, carrying capacity, damage reduction.
Armor choices can lock or unlock skills. IE can't dash in heavy or super heavy.
Weapons are Classed Melee, Ranged - Short, Medium, Long, AOE and are sub classed Light medium, heavy and super for damage.
Items gain exp the more battles they are in, gaining bonuses.
Items gain stats based on how you play. Melee play styles get melee bonuses added etc...
All items have internal sockets for upgrade components that can be interchanged to effect stats.
All items have extenal plates for upgrades to armor, shielding, new skill unlocks, (wrist mounted rockets, wrist bolter, scope, sliencer, grenade launcher etc...)
Eventually they can be named and become legendary. Can be traded to the chapter/clan/caste for unlocking something special. - Squad vehicles, Special ability, character upgrade to some very rare command character with powerful special abilities.
All items degrade over time and would need to be repaired in the field or back at base.
Field repairs can be done by scavenging.
Only components can be crafted. These components can be placed in item slots.
Money
No money -
Loot dropped by enemies can be taken may or may not be useable by your race or class.
Loot can also be trophies with bonuses - Trophies of significance can be traded for squad upgrades or rank upgrades
Loot can be traded into requisition officers at bases for study by that race's scientists. In return you get Requisition credits for good service in the field. These credits are used for your squad to get upgrades for weapons, armor, plugins, addons, biological boosts from the armaments, medical, and technology officers.
PVP
Open world pvp at all times.
Preset battle grounds that change every few months. Persistent score keeping. Make it a real battle. Every time you enter you are essentially joining a fight in progress.
I'm sorry but neither Orks nor Dark Eldar fall under the Forces of Chaos. I recently had a discussion considering the Dark Eldar aspect of that group and I have come to the conclusion that they are not Chaotic. Sure, they're seemingly random, but they and the Eldar are far more likely to ally than with Orks and especially with Chaos, their most hated enemy (Slaanesh anyone?). Similarly, Orks are definitely not Chaos. They worship Gork and Mork and that is all. They do not have any contact or draw any power from the Warp and so will generally never even have the chance to be tainted.
I think I would be far happier seeing four factions at the beginning - Imperium, Eldar, Chaos and Orks, than forcing them to group together. I agree, however, that it makes sense to have Tau and Eldar together if any alliances are forged, because the Tau are basically 40k's "good" faction, as far as good goes in the grimdark future. Plus, there's the rumour of the Eldar creating the Ethereals and therefore allowing the Tau to advance in their tech very quickly for such a young race... but anyway back on topic - I just don't think faction forcing will work at all. Nothing in the 40k universe is permanent, there is only war
I'm sorry but neither Orks nor Dark Eldar fall under the Forces of Chaos. I recently had a discussion considering the Dark Eldar aspect of that group and I have come to the conclusion that they are not Chaotic. Sure, they're seemingly random, but they and the Eldar are far more likely to ally than with Orks and especially with Chaos, their most hated enemy (Slaanesh anyone?). Similarly, Orks are definitely not Chaos. They worship Gork and Mork and that is all. They do not have any contact or draw any power from the Warp and so will generally never even have the chance to be tainted.
I think I would be far happier seeing four factions at the beginning - Imperium, Eldar, Chaos and Orks, than forcing them to group together. I agree, however, that it makes sense to have Tau and Eldar together if any alliances are forged, because the Tau are basically 40k's "good" faction, as far as good goes in the grimdark future. Plus, there's the rumour of the Eldar creating the Ethereals and therefore allowing the Tau to advance in their tech very quickly for such a young race... but anyway back on topic - I just don't think faction forcing will work at all. Nothing in the 40k universe is permanent, there is only war
Then I would take the orks out as a playable class and have them as the lowliest of mobs you face, aside from monsters, animals, daemons and lesser aliens. They could also be nicely incorporate into story lines as the constant nuisance to the other races.
Couldn't you spin it so the chaos gods decide to put differences aside in an effort stop some sort of universal threat like the Necrons or the Tyranids?
So I was thinking about how they can do this last night and I wrote a bunch of notes down. (And then I got into a mad brainstorm of how I would fix WAR which devolved into listing everything that is broken with it... its not pretty!)
I came to the conclusion that it really would be best if they did work from DoW2 as a base. You would be reduced to one squad which would allow you to focus on its upgrades to give them more depth and customization (the more you personalize the units, the more the player is attached to them)
I have some questions regarding some things I came up with:
Were there any female Space Marines? It became apparent to me that maybe if you wanted to play a female, that the Sisters of Battle would be "mirror classes" of male Space Marines. I know it would be more dev time but if they could give the "mirror classes" a little twist, it would work better than cookie cutter copies and fit with the lore better.
Likewise, the Eldar units seemed to have some gender specifics. Are there male Farseers or Banshees? Harlequins? Wraiths, Warp Spiders, Rangers and Guardians seem like they can be either male or female.
If you were doing a small squad based approach could you mix and max gender units? Like say, it is possible to pair a Seraphim commander with Assault Marine squad mates? Or if you were just mixing genders, would it be ok to have a male Ranger commanding female Ranger squad mates?
On thing I think would be key with the squad mates is having them being unlockable that level up with you. I think it would be better than micromanaging each and every facet of them. As you commander levels up, they unlock a bigger variety of squad mates to take along with them with more and more varied support abilities. Your commander is still able to switch between terminator armor and regular armor or any combination of weapons allowed by their archetype, but the squad mates will match the base armor type of you commander and be able to choose between the stock weapons available to the squad's archetype. For instance, your commander could wield a 2 handed hammer or chain sword and shield and your squad could wield the same. I also like the option of mixing in ranged support for a melee focused commander. They could be equipped with a sword and bolter or your squad mates could be melee support for your dual bolter pistol based commander. I think this will add a lot of replay value and no two players squads need to be cookie cutter or flavor of the month.
I just looking for corrections or specifics found in the lore. Or we can have discussions on despite the fact that they don't exist in the lore, its probable they could exist.
Just reading this thread, this game will have it rough no matter what they do. We're all very picky fans, aren't we?
Lore that goes back to 1988. Heck yeah we're picky fans!! I was old enough to appreciate the lore back then. I'm crotchety now and don't want them abusing the lore I've grown to love in my adulthood.
I bet more than half the people on these forums were "born" around the time Warhammer 40k started up. Keep in mind the fantasy side had been going for a while when they chose to start up the space version.
They have a serious set of shoes to fill.
Mythic failed miserably and made me lose all respect for a company, up until WAR that, I actually liked.
Picky was also the trekkie fans and look what happened to their game. Ive been snooping around though and i hear the dev team is going to try and keep it sacred as much as possible, however Ive heard that line before for other IPs. I have to see the end product to make a call but I will never get hyped again over any good IP thats turned into a MMO again.
Want to stay true to the lore of 40K and have space marines be more powerful then other races? Make them an unlock - take a Gaurdsman to a certain point in game (level or skill-based or exp/kills) and then you get ONE unlock for a space marine. You then up your Guardsman to a space marine - or create a new marine. And then what? Still unfair? Permanent Death. Then you get a reflection of the lore - they will always be outnumbered and once they are down - they are gone.
My $.02
Unlocking is fine. Starting out IG and then working ones way up to a spot in the Inquisition or Space Marines. But perma death isn't going to make it in the modern MMO world. WAY too small a demographic would even tolerate that. Not to mention that if their main focus is on PvP, they are going to niche themselves from the start.
I don't want this game to be typecast into the stereotypical MMO. No DPS/Tank/Healer classes. By removing healer classes all together, they can focus on engaging gameplay and not be put on a leash or Healer dependency.
Healing should go as far as Medkits/Stimpacks/Trauma Packs that you use while taking cover. Reviving fallen comrades should be an ability awarded to Squad leaders/Field Commanders, much like reviving Fallen Teammates in Gears of War.
Healers take strategies out of everything. With healers involved, there becomes 1 strategy. Kill the healer. By eliminating this dependency, you open up a wide range of strategies and gameplay options.
I'm really hoping for an Action-MMORPG as opposed to a standard RNG MMO. I hope skill and utilizing your character well matters more than gear.
As much as I'd love it to be a first person/3rd person Shooter MMO, it won't happen. That's already been confirmed. The most I can hope for is that they take elements from games like gears of war and the such.
Sticky Cover is a Must. Flushing enemies from cover with Grenades before charging in, Power sword in hand will be incredible.
I hope they stick to the traditional 40k tabletop stat lines, slightly altered due to translation to MMO.
Ballistic Skill, Weapon Skill, Strength, Toughness, (Dex/Agil which represents Speed/Reflex instead of Initiative), Wounds(health), (No need for Attack stat), and Leadership/Morale. Armor is obviously its own thing.
As well, I hope character progression goes as followed, through ranking up, changing job/careers.
One thing I don't want to be, however, is the same damn thing for 60 levels +. Evolving from one class to another adds a real sense of accomplishment. being stuck in the same class/same typecast for your whole career is just stupid.
advancement through skill trees ala something like SWG where you increase your ability to use 'specials' by spending your skill points from experience.
you can learn everything there is about using a terminator suite but still can't handle the missle launcher worth damn. At some point in time if you want to re-train yourself you can.
Good article with some very relevant points, but I have to seriously disagree with your idea about factions. The W40k universe is a very violent and paranoid place. It is not uncommon to see armies of the same so called "factions" at war with one another. In my opinion the best thing Vigil could do is to have each race as a separate faction, and allow a more mix and match free for all system of PVP.
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
From what I'm now seeing Wh40k Would be great with a Earn as you use it and play system
If you use your Subpar Bolter long enough you could get a Plasma Pistol or Heavy Bolter if you're of the correct classification.
Having SM as a seperate faction makes sense what doesn't make sense is starting out as a Scout Marine...unfortunately they're not Super men just augmented to be superior scouts and super snipers.
Should Space Marine stay somewhat true to its fluff? Sure! But don't expect them to be super gods of war right out the gate.
Keep in mind that only the battle hardened Space Marines like Sergeants and Terminators have become so battle ready and hardened that they're off the elite status and Can and will take down hordes of Orks and tons of Xenos before being overwhelmed.
For all the people saying No no no Single person mechanics wouldn't work I argue Why do you think it wouldn't?
Early on in the game you could be put together in a squad with others kind of like an FPS Game where one person decides to lead the team to victory. It would highly encourage team play and make the game more obvious that you work as a team and nobody is their own god (After all if they thought this they'd be heretics and hunted down to be disposed of by the Inquisition).
Orks don't need food like the Imperium does and I doubt Eldar and Dark Eldar are too concerned with it since they care about the balance of things and not going extinct. Chaos...well they're far too busy serving the will of the Chaos gods to be concerned about THEIR needs. Only others besides the Imperium needing some sort of food would be Tau but as someone stated earlier they have an ENTIRE Caste system devoted to those sorts of tasks much like the Imperium with SM Servitors, Imperial Tech Priests and the like.
To the comment about Not fighting ones own faction...Well I'll agree with you to a point for IG and SM they wouldn't really fight one another unless say some rank of the IG decided to follow the Tau and serve the "Greater Good". Then the Inquisition might have to have a word with them and if they really caused problems the SM would be dispatched to Deal with said Problems.
Eldar and Tau wouldn't fight their own regardless but both would be on the same bandwagon as SM to Deal with Chaos...The Eldar aren't too fond of them from past dealings and the Tau view their ways as a complete aberration and affront to the "Greater Good" Plus as some history states some followers of Slaanesh sickend commander puretide that time so he commanded his forces to purge them in the name of the "Greater Good".
Dark Eldar WOULD indeed have arenas to fight one another it's what they do and it's one of their pleasures they indulge in on Commorragh. Orks would fight each other to see whos da bigga ork wots gonna lead us ta viktory for Gork n Mork!
Chaos pretty much hates everybody that doesn't see their point of view and I do like the idea of Chaos being able to wander around imperial cities, but I'm not sure how well that would translate into a PvP Situation without MAJOR MAJOR cutting edge coding that nobody has ever seen before.
So for the Inquisition why not just play the part and Sniff out the Heretics as NPCs and in RvR setting of Outposts on fringe worlds you could hunt down the Chaos players but they'd be hunting you as well.
The two eldar races would sooner die out than rejoin one another, The craftworld eldar are more concerned about keeping the balance in the universe and making sure the Necrons don't wipe it all out...again. The Dark Eldar of Commorragh are more concerned with who's got the biggest e-peen, indulging in pleasures, and making raids to find more slaves (Just so you know unlike their goody goody counterparts the Dark Eldar use human slaves to do their work for them while they indulge themselves)
Let's put Requisition as the flavor of Money in the game to afford upgrades or various powers (though with Chaos and Dark Eldar most of their Higher level powers would come from either killing enemies a bloodlust sort of thing or collecting souls from anything that dies)
High end game content for mostly everyone would be involved in capturing worlds from one another resulting in massive scale battles. Say the SM are fighting with the IG to claim a world for the Imperium against the Orks on one side and the forces of Chaos on the other all the while the Eldar and Dark Eldar are having it out on the far reaches of the planet doing the same.
Also I feel it would be fighting back the deathless (Necrons) and the insatiable (Tyranids)
For those that have TT Necron Armies and Tyranid Swarms I'm sorry but in MMO Land it kinda makes little to no sense whatsoever to have them playable. Necrons follow ONLY the Necron Lord of a particular Tomb World and the Tyranid Swarm is endless, limitless and works with a singular hive mind. Kinda like how it WoW you can be the Forsaken who are sentient but you can't be the Scourge and like in WAR how you cannot be undead period dot.
Graphics on the game will at least have to be DX10 compatible as anything less than at least this would look worse than the RTS in a fully 3D environs. This is also another point make the environment FULL 3D and destructible.
If some tank goes BOOM on the landscape it ought to be in pieces and in a crater.
If you are going to use a mature IP, then make the game mature. Was anything even remotely scarey about chaos? The most feared Race in the IP and the best they did was pastel colors and a flying disk. Please.
Apparently you misspelled tyranids as chaos.
Apparently you haven't bothered to read my posts. I have been referring to WAR. Last I checked it did not have Tyranids.
Learn to read before trolling.
No.
I believe i will troll wherever and whenever and however i like.
You are correct sir.
You have the right to make yourself look as stupid as you choose.
So far you are succeeding stupendously.
Bravo....
Never violate a woman, nor harm a child. Do not lie, cheat or steal. These things are for lesser men. Protect the weak against the evil strong. And never allow thoughts of gain to lead you into the pursuit of evil. Never back away from an enemy. Either fight or surrender. It is not enough to say I will not be evil. Evil must be fought wherever it is found.The Iron Code"
I haven't seen this discussed yet, and I know very little about the WAR40k universe, so here's a question for you guys:
What about mounts?
Do they have them in 40k lore? Are they in the form of big transportation, like spaceships, or more personal like steeds, chariots or badass futuristic bikes?
Comments
I suggest you to document a lot better before writing a pile of rubbish like this.
This is a good start http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Main_Page .
I suggest you to document a lot better before writing a pile of rubbish like this.
This is a good start http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Main_Page .
Thanks for your informative reply. I really don't know where to start answering your criticism, hmm? Maybe you tell me first what you think constitutes the rubbish?
Thanks for the link though, but to point it out, that wiki is only concerned with the tabletop, there is also a RPG, you know that, no? So while the tabletop naturally is only concerned with combat, the RPG is not.
Looking forward to hear from you in more than two sentences.
The enthusiastic responses here show how hard it will be to please everyone regardless of what they do.
That said, for me a couple things will be key:
1. First and foremost - FUN; yes it needs progression, lore, immersion and all that...but is it fun to play? No one would mind the "grind" if it was entertaining. This is something that WAR seriously missed out on. The BGs were fun....the public areas and pve were one of the most boring grinds around.
2. Second only to fun is LORE: they really need to get the look, feel and atmosphere of the game right or all us W40k purists will rip them to shreds.
3. Multiple factions - doesn't matter if they start small (like 2-3)...but keep the faction war system OPEN ENDED so that Imperials can fight Orcs, Orcs can fight Eldar who can fight Tau etc....free for all, not the IDIOTIC forced alliances from WAR.
4. Tied with 3 really is that they get PvP right, it HAS to be there and it has be important and done well.
Lastly, and this is really more of a prayer than a realistic hope: They need to get CHAOS right! Chaos has to be intermingled with and the flip side of the Empire. If I cannot be a chaos cultist in an Imperial city or an inquisitor hunting them, they got it wrong. If I cannot be a loyal imperial who slowly goes bad and turns to chaos, they got it wrong.
PS as the previous poster mentioned I also agree there has to be MORE than just combat. so maybe #5 on the essentials list is crafting (better than the bad joke in WAR!); adeptus mechanicus, snotlings...rogue traders
I have been waiting years for this MMO. Lots of us have. I've been playing 40K since "blue book" which was the first version of the ruleset for tabletop, and since Meridian 59 came out have been fantasizing about a 40K MMO. Gamesworkshop has an incredible IP that could really go far. For me, all they need to do is give me the LORE that I want, and some half decent gameplay with rich character story, and I'm good. I could care less about endgame. I've never cared about endgame in an MMO, which to me, sees to be the dumbest thing in the world. The point of a sandbox isn't to "finish" or "beat" anything. But then, I don't have the attention span of a ferret.
Thanks for your informative reply. I really don't know where to start answering your criticism, hmm? Maybe you tell me first what you think constitutes the rubbish?
Thanks for the link though, but to point it out, that wiki is only concerned with the tabletop, there is also a RPG, you know that, no? So while the tabletop naturally is only concerned with combat, the RPG is not.
Looking forward to hear from you in more than two sentences.
Well no, lexicanum isn't relative only to the TT game (actualy i've never see anything about the TT game) but also to lore and everything that comes around warhammer 40k universe.
Famous and infamous character, history of the Imperium and other faction and so on.
And for answering your other question, i don't spend time arguing with someone that doesn't know nothing about a particular subject.
Because the task that you suggest in the first post usually are accomplished by servitor (at least in the imperium, other races like orks simply doesn't give a shit about those things).
Who wouldn't be a drooling lobotomized bunch of flesh?
I would rather see a Warmachine or a Shadowrun MMO anyday of the week than a 40k MMO
Gamesworkshop/Citadel cant even keep a ongoing set of rules or lore for the game. I hate to see what happens to the computer version
40k was the biggest rip off game of all the table top games ever made. I mean they would make entire army lists completely obsolete like every 3 years. I know I wasted way to much money on the game only to watch models become unplayable. army lists no longer composable. I would rather dump a load of cash into the sewage than waste my money on this game.
Which is funny because i still like Warhammer Fantasy Battle.
To the people screaming "NO HEALERZ!":
Apothecary
Mad Dok
etc.
Like yourself? I really have no idea how you got this seriously twisted view of the Dark Millennium.
Ever heard of TECHMARINES? Yeah they are all drooling lobotomized idiots...right or the Adeptus Mechanicus? (who are not servitors, btw)...read any of the fiction and there are endless references to master crafted this or that, specialized gear and custom armors. Ever think that perhaps an 'Eldar CRAFT WORLD' makes things? Bonesingers? or the Tau tech castes? Even the ORKS have Mekboyz and the like....
So please, crawl back under whatever shroud of colossal ignorance made you try to dismiss crafting in a 40K universe.
Well, I've been thinking recently about how to incorporate real combat healers into 40kO without having the "cast = green bars!" feel that works with fantasy settings but does not work so well in 40k. A quite simple system could be used, involving HoT "heals" granted by using medikits with cooldowns (similar to potions but exempt from consumption rules) and ofc, the good old 'healers'.
For example, to prevent a player bleeding out from a wound (DoT damage), they could administer a blood clotting drug, which would effectively get rid of the DoT debuff. To increase a player's strength and speed, give them an adrenaline jab. To decrease their health loss/increase their toughness, feed them a handful of painkillers, as is done in actual canon lore. Not to leave out the healing part, an Apothecary or Pain Boy or Mad Dok or whoever could carry medikits which required specialist knowledge to use properly and give a better HoT than standard medikits.
Remember also that healers in 40k are not helpless in combat as they are in other MMOs. An Apothecary is not some random civilian brought in to tend the sick, this is an 8ft tall superhuman bred from childhood to be a warrior who battles for the survival of Mankind. Whatever his title is, he's still a killing machine. Same goes for Mad Doks - that's still a bloody big Ork, and possibly even more violent than your average greenskin! Farseers too, if they were to be a support class, are some of the most powerful psykers in the entire universe. All of these are not to be trifled with, at any rate.
P.S.For anyone who's reading this who's from warhammer40konline.net this is Bloodeye
Like yourself? I really have no idea how you got this seriously twisted view of the Dark Millennium.
Ever heard of TECHMARINES? Yeah they are all drooling lobotomized idiots...right or the Adeptus Mechanicus? (who are not servitors, btw)...read any of the fiction and there are endless references to master crafted this or that, specialized gear and custom armors. Ever think that perhaps an 'Eldar CRAFT WORLD' makes things? Bonesingers? or the Tau tech castes? Even the ORKS have Mekboyz and the like....
So please, crawl back under whatever shroud of colossal ignorance made you try to dismiss crafting in a 40K universe.
Well played. Saves me the page and half wall of text I was about to post.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez
Want to stay true to the lore of 40K and have space marines be more powerful then other races?
Make them an unlock - take a Gaurdsman to a certain point in game (level or skill-based or exp/kills) and then you get ONE unlock for a space marine. You then up your Guardsman to a space marine - or create a new marine.
And then what? Still unfair?
Permanent Death.
Then you get a reflection of the lore - they will always be outnumbered and once they are down - they are gone.
My $.02
Perhaps you could unlock a Space Marine, but then you'd have to have Unlocks for each faction.
Also, on the subject of lore, and if you intended to make your Guardsman into a Marine that would be lore-breaking - Space Marines are selected from their recruiting worlds early in their teens so the organ implants can take effect and grow with the body.
For me WAR40KMMO needs to get right:
Graphics:
WAR Online failed in this deparment. They chosed a simpler version or graphics and in my opinion it looked ugly. We need this game to fight side by side with games like AION or the upcoming TERA. It needs to be gorgeous! We want to see the beautiful Eldar, the complexity of TAU, the caos with Chaos Marines, etc.
Gameplay:
For this game i would use what other companies are already implementing. You have your main Character and you are followed by 2 or 3 companions, just like every troop in the WAR40K games. This has been made by Star Trek Online, Lotro (in some way with the skirmishes and the captain herald) & its being developed by Bioware for SWTOR. We need to feel we are in a war and that we have an army following us.
I don't want to see a FPSMMO. Its true that WAR40K has a lot of range unit but don't forget that almost all troops are equipped for melee combat.
Lots of MMO have a lot of ranged classes, and this does not break the balance with melee ones. You just need to give resources to the classes so they can fight each other. Example: melee classes have better defenses against ranged ones, haver some root abilities, etc. Its not hard to do if you do it right.
PVP:
You don't need to have factions to do it right. Lineage 2 offered 4 classes each with different motivations and goals. Elves, Dark Elves, Orcs and Humans, and all of them could fight each other, even them selfs. I didn't liked the fact that you could attack someone from your same race, but this can be easily fixed, only allowing pvp among different races. But what the heck, even if we have the factions the article described it wouldn't be so bad.
I don't like open pvp because it makes the game stressful, you have to be watching over your shoulder all the time, and this only makes the game less interesting for casual players. If you only have 1 or 2 hours a day to play, you don't want to do it in fear of someone coming to kill you every time you are doing something.
If we get pvp zones, there must be one or several for different lvls. 1-10, 11-20, etc. Its not fair only high lvl characters can enjoy the pvp.
The pvp system from WAR was nice in my opinion. You could jump into the fight at lvl 1 and still feel of some use for your group. The multiple zones for each lvl of pvp was nice.
Progression:
It has to be quest based. Everyone except Korean ppl hates Grinding for progression. Lotro has a very good quest based progression system. The WAR game didn't do that bad in this department, but please we don't want to kill 1000k enemies all day to gain a lvl.
Also, questing has to mean something. Not only go and kill 10 enemies and come back for a reward. Some story would be nice, to actually feel you are making a difference.
Reclaimable outpost for each faction or race could be nice, specially in the pvp areas. We want motivation for going out there to fight. We want some kind of reward. Example: We take the outpost and we must hold it for x amount of time before reinforcements arrive, and after that we get some quest from that outpost.
And finally, we want all races, not just some of them, we want them all: TAU, Chaos Marines, Eldar, Orcs, Space Marines, Imperial Guard, Tyranids and Necrons.
Why not get creative with this IP. Take aspects of the RTS games and plug them in. Take aspects from recent popular fps/action games and plug them in.
Generic MMO rules won't work
The whole universe is built on wide scale war billions of beings fighting billions of beings. Controlling one person makes no sense. Individuals don't fight wars. Also doesn't fit with the table top game.
Towns filled with morons paying you to be part of their clan doesn't seem like it would make sense in WH40K. Nor would an auction house filled with farmed goods and out of control economies.
Areana systems and dueling make no sense - friendly small battles for points or phat lootz or fighting allies to within an inch of life isn't something that screams WH40K.
Towns people that need odd jobs done would be ridiculous.
Quests that require X amount of something gathered or killed would be ridiculous. No space marine commander would say, kill 10 orks then you can come back here for a new bolter.
The list can go on and on...
What should happen...
Player Creation, Factions, guilds
Player Creation
Players should control a Fireteam of 5 members.
All 5 members can be chosen from a list of classes.
All 5 members are customized individually by the player.
They player then chooses which member is the NCO. That toon gets a boost in stats.
You then choose which Chapter, Ork clan, Tau clan etc... Further alters your stats.
Once you achieve a certain rank or level, you have the option of becoming a specialist, ie inquisitor, librarian, harliquin etc...
Guilds
Very few guilds in any game don't get more than a Company's worth of players if they are lucky. From what I can recall from my wow days, most guilds on my server only ever had Platoon Strength and rarely had 10 people on.
Guilds would be the equivalent of Platoons or Companies. They would have to align with a Chapter. members would have to switch to that chaper/clan etc.. if they were not originally aligned.
Guilds would have hard caps on membership.
Guilds would be given allocation points from the Chapter/Clan/Caste etc... From completing "raid content" or larger scale content for the accquisition of high power vehicles, transports etc...
Allocation points could be lost if guild level events fail. Sort of like the RTS, losing parts of the map.
Guilds would have a hard cap on heavy weapons or vehicles they could employ at a given time.
Factions
Forces of the Imperium
Imperial Guard · Space Marines · Sisters of Battle
Forces of Chaos
Chaos Space Marines · Dark Eldar
Alien races
Eldar · Tau ·
NPC Aliens, Enemies to all Factions - probable story lines, endgame content
Tyranids · Necrons · Orks
EXP, Leveling and Spells/Skills
I think it would be interesting to see a S.P.E.C.I.A.L. System in place,
Primary Statistics - Chosen from character creation screen - Can only change with items
* Strength
* Perception
* Endurance
* Charisma
* Intelligence
* Agility
* Luck
Derived Statistics - effected by items, based on Primary stats
* Action Points/energy/power
* Critical Chance
* Damage Resistance
* Fire Resistance
* Health
* Melee Damage
* Poison Resistance
* Radiation Resistance
* Unarmed Damage
Skills - Chosen at start - can be increased through training, items
Big Guns
Energy Weapons
Explosives
Medicine
Melee Weapons
Repair
Hacking
Small Guns
Sneak
Unarmed
Speech
Perks - Recieved at different level intervals
Obviously would coincide with WH40K terminology
Leveling occurs through survival of battles, use of skills, discovery of map.
I also think you should have access to all your classes powers at level 1. They would all be weak since you would be a new recruit and have battle experience. Your powers would not be something you would allocate points to. They would improve through use in combat.
Example,
Combat and movement skills improve as they are used. Ducking and firing will improve coresponding skills, Firing from cover will improve those skills.
or
Spells/powers, improve/upgrade if used. eg.100 grenade kills gives you improved accuracy or crit and so on.
***These skills automatically improve through use.
Game play
Each member can be controlled individually or the group can be given commands. Switching members should be seamless.
Tactical overhead view, 3rd person/over the shoulder and aiming reticle/down the barrel
All units regenerate health/power over time. All units have rudimentery healing abilties, medics can revive and group heal and have quick heals.
Squads with rounded out members have bonuses added ie, 1 heavy weapons, 1 sniper, 1 medic, 2 "riflemen"
Squads with 5 of the same also get bonuses as they become specialist squads - as seen in the RTS.
Squads with poor balance may start off with handicaps although may gain advantages in higher levels
No jumping or dancing - obsiticals have to be climbed over when approached.
Collision detection is a must.
Steal the reloading mechanic from GOW.
Steal the grenade mechanic from GOW.
Create a trick system/break/combo where you can gain temporary boosts to skills or spells if you get a head shot or multiple kill. Think of something your good at. You inevitable create away to do it better or improve the process or make it easier.
Deformable battle field terrian should be in the game.
Improve the squad controls from Mass Effect 2 and DA:O
Sniping would be extremely difficult. Easy head shots would distort power dynamics.
Cover system, height advantage/ tactical advantages should factor into damage calculation.
** Cover and AI squad members that use cover will be crucial to the game.
** AI switching between melee and ranged at appropriate times is also crucial.
Items and Loot
All armor and weapons are standard with standard attributes.
Armor is classed Light Medium, heavy, super heavy, affects movement speed, carrying capacity, damage reduction.
Armor choices can lock or unlock skills. IE can't dash in heavy or super heavy.
Weapons are Classed Melee, Ranged - Short, Medium, Long, AOE and are sub classed Light medium, heavy and super for damage.
Items gain exp the more battles they are in, gaining bonuses.
Items gain stats based on how you play. Melee play styles get melee bonuses added etc...
All items have internal sockets for upgrade components that can be interchanged to effect stats.
All items have extenal plates for upgrades to armor, shielding, new skill unlocks, (wrist mounted rockets, wrist bolter, scope, sliencer, grenade launcher etc...)
Eventually they can be named and become legendary. Can be traded to the chapter/clan/caste for unlocking something special. - Squad vehicles, Special ability, character upgrade to some very rare command character with powerful special abilities.
All items degrade over time and would need to be repaired in the field or back at base.
Field repairs can be done by scavenging.
Only components can be crafted. These components can be placed in item slots.
Money
No money -
Loot dropped by enemies can be taken may or may not be useable by your race or class.
Loot can also be trophies with bonuses - Trophies of significance can be traded for squad upgrades or rank upgrades
Loot can be traded into requisition officers at bases for study by that race's scientists. In return you get Requisition credits for good service in the field. These credits are used for your squad to get upgrades for weapons, armor, plugins, addons, biological boosts from the armaments, medical, and technology officers.
PVP
Open world pvp at all times.
Preset battle grounds that change every few months. Persistent score keeping. Make it a real battle. Every time you enter you are essentially joining a fight in progress.
I'm sorry but neither Orks nor Dark Eldar fall under the Forces of Chaos. I recently had a discussion considering the Dark Eldar aspect of that group and I have come to the conclusion that they are not Chaotic. Sure, they're seemingly random, but they and the Eldar are far more likely to ally than with Orks and especially with Chaos, their most hated enemy (Slaanesh anyone?). Similarly, Orks are definitely not Chaos. They worship Gork and Mork and that is all. They do not have any contact or draw any power from the Warp and so will generally never even have the chance to be tainted.
I think I would be far happier seeing four factions at the beginning - Imperium, Eldar, Chaos and Orks, than forcing them to group together. I agree, however, that it makes sense to have Tau and Eldar together if any alliances are forged, because the Tau are basically 40k's "good" faction, as far as good goes in the grimdark future. Plus, there's the rumour of the Eldar creating the Ethereals and therefore allowing the Tau to advance in their tech very quickly for such a young race... but anyway back on topic - I just don't think faction forcing will work at all. Nothing in the 40k universe is permanent, there is only war
Then I would take the orks out as a playable class and have them as the lowliest of mobs you face, aside from monsters, animals, daemons and lesser aliens. They could also be nicely incorporate into story lines as the constant nuisance to the other races.
Couldn't you spin it so the chaos gods decide to put differences aside in an effort stop some sort of universal threat like the Necrons or the Tyranids?
So I was thinking about how they can do this last night and I wrote a bunch of notes down. (And then I got into a mad brainstorm of how I would fix WAR which devolved into listing everything that is broken with it... its not pretty!)
I came to the conclusion that it really would be best if they did work from DoW2 as a base. You would be reduced to one squad which would allow you to focus on its upgrades to give them more depth and customization (the more you personalize the units, the more the player is attached to them)
I have some questions regarding some things I came up with:
Were there any female Space Marines? It became apparent to me that maybe if you wanted to play a female, that the Sisters of Battle would be "mirror classes" of male Space Marines. I know it would be more dev time but if they could give the "mirror classes" a little twist, it would work better than cookie cutter copies and fit with the lore better.
Likewise, the Eldar units seemed to have some gender specifics. Are there male Farseers or Banshees? Harlequins? Wraiths, Warp Spiders, Rangers and Guardians seem like they can be either male or female.
If you were doing a small squad based approach could you mix and max gender units? Like say, it is possible to pair a Seraphim commander with Assault Marine squad mates? Or if you were just mixing genders, would it be ok to have a male Ranger commanding female Ranger squad mates?
On thing I think would be key with the squad mates is having them being unlockable that level up with you. I think it would be better than micromanaging each and every facet of them. As you commander levels up, they unlock a bigger variety of squad mates to take along with them with more and more varied support abilities. Your commander is still able to switch between terminator armor and regular armor or any combination of weapons allowed by their archetype, but the squad mates will match the base armor type of you commander and be able to choose between the stock weapons available to the squad's archetype. For instance, your commander could wield a 2 handed hammer or chain sword and shield and your squad could wield the same. I also like the option of mixing in ranged support for a melee focused commander. They could be equipped with a sword and bolter or your squad mates could be melee support for your dual bolter pistol based commander. I think this will add a lot of replay value and no two players squads need to be cookie cutter or flavor of the month.
I just looking for corrections or specifics found in the lore. Or we can have discussions on despite the fact that they don't exist in the lore, its probable they could exist.
Lore that goes back to 1988. Heck yeah we're picky fans!! I was old enough to appreciate the lore back then. I'm crotchety now and don't want them abusing the lore I've grown to love in my adulthood.
I bet more than half the people on these forums were "born" around the time Warhammer 40k started up. Keep in mind the fantasy side had been going for a while when they chose to start up the space version.
They have a serious set of shoes to fill.
Mythic failed miserably and made me lose all respect for a company, up until WAR that, I actually liked.
Picky was also the trekkie fans and look what happened to their game. Ive been snooping around though and i hear the dev team is going to try and keep it sacred as much as possible, however Ive heard that line before for other IPs. I have to see the end product to make a call but I will never get hyped again over any good IP thats turned into a MMO again.
Unlocking is fine. Starting out IG and then working ones way up to a spot in the Inquisition or Space Marines. But perma death isn't going to make it in the modern MMO world. WAY too small a demographic would even tolerate that. Not to mention that if their main focus is on PvP, they are going to niche themselves from the start.
I don't want this game to be typecast into the stereotypical MMO. No DPS/Tank/Healer classes. By removing healer classes all together, they can focus on engaging gameplay and not be put on a leash or Healer dependency.
Healing should go as far as Medkits/Stimpacks/Trauma Packs that you use while taking cover. Reviving fallen comrades should be an ability awarded to Squad leaders/Field Commanders, much like reviving Fallen Teammates in Gears of War.
Healers take strategies out of everything. With healers involved, there becomes 1 strategy. Kill the healer. By eliminating this dependency, you open up a wide range of strategies and gameplay options.
I'm really hoping for an Action-MMORPG as opposed to a standard RNG MMO. I hope skill and utilizing your character well matters more than gear.
As much as I'd love it to be a first person/3rd person Shooter MMO, it won't happen. That's already been confirmed. The most I can hope for is that they take elements from games like gears of war and the such.
Sticky Cover is a Must. Flushing enemies from cover with Grenades before charging in, Power sword in hand will be incredible.
I hope they stick to the traditional 40k tabletop stat lines, slightly altered due to translation to MMO.
Ballistic Skill, Weapon Skill, Strength, Toughness, (Dex/Agil which represents Speed/Reflex instead of Initiative), Wounds(health), (No need for Attack stat), and Leadership/Morale. Armor is obviously its own thing.
As well, I hope character progression goes as followed, through ranking up, changing job/careers.
Eg.
Scout Marine > Assault Marine/Tactical Marine/Devastator > Seargant > Sternguard Vets/Vanguard Vets/Terminator/Honour Guard member> etc.. etc.. etc..
Or in case of Eldar.
Path of Seer
Bonesinger > Warlock > Spiritseer > Farseer?
Path of Warrior
Guardian > Aspect Warrior > Exarch > Autarch/Phoenix Lord?
The possibilities are endless
One thing I don't want to be, however, is the same damn thing for 60 levels +. Evolving from one class to another adds a real sense of accomplishment. being stuck in the same class/same typecast for your whole career is just stupid.
advancement through skill trees ala something like SWG where you increase your ability to use 'specials' by spending your skill points from experience.
you can learn everything there is about using a terminator suite but still can't handle the missle launcher worth damn. At some point in time if you want to re-train yourself you can.
Good article with some very relevant points, but I have to seriously disagree with your idea about factions. The W40k universe is a very violent and paranoid place. It is not uncommon to see armies of the same so called "factions" at war with one another. In my opinion the best thing Vigil could do is to have each race as a separate faction, and allow a more mix and match free for all system of PVP.
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
From what I'm now seeing Wh40k Would be great with a Earn as you use it and play system
If you use your Subpar Bolter long enough you could get a Plasma Pistol or Heavy Bolter if you're of the correct classification.
Having SM as a seperate faction makes sense what doesn't make sense is starting out as a Scout Marine...unfortunately they're not Super men just augmented to be superior scouts and super snipers.
Should Space Marine stay somewhat true to its fluff? Sure! But don't expect them to be super gods of war right out the gate.
Keep in mind that only the battle hardened Space Marines like Sergeants and Terminators have become so battle ready and hardened that they're off the elite status and Can and will take down hordes of Orks and tons of Xenos before being overwhelmed.
For all the people saying No no no Single person mechanics wouldn't work I argue Why do you think it wouldn't?
Early on in the game you could be put together in a squad with others kind of like an FPS Game where one person decides to lead the team to victory. It would highly encourage team play and make the game more obvious that you work as a team and nobody is their own god (After all if they thought this they'd be heretics and hunted down to be disposed of by the Inquisition).
Orks don't need food like the Imperium does and I doubt Eldar and Dark Eldar are too concerned with it since they care about the balance of things and not going extinct. Chaos...well they're far too busy serving the will of the Chaos gods to be concerned about THEIR needs. Only others besides the Imperium needing some sort of food would be Tau but as someone stated earlier they have an ENTIRE Caste system devoted to those sorts of tasks much like the Imperium with SM Servitors, Imperial Tech Priests and the like.
To the comment about Not fighting ones own faction...Well I'll agree with you to a point for IG and SM they wouldn't really fight one another unless say some rank of the IG decided to follow the Tau and serve the "Greater Good". Then the Inquisition might have to have a word with them and if they really caused problems the SM would be dispatched to Deal with said Problems.
Eldar and Tau wouldn't fight their own regardless but both would be on the same bandwagon as SM to Deal with Chaos...The Eldar aren't too fond of them from past dealings and the Tau view their ways as a complete aberration and affront to the "Greater Good" Plus as some history states some followers of Slaanesh sickend commander puretide that time so he commanded his forces to purge them in the name of the "Greater Good".
Dark Eldar WOULD indeed have arenas to fight one another it's what they do and it's one of their pleasures they indulge in on Commorragh. Orks would fight each other to see whos da bigga ork wots gonna lead us ta viktory for Gork n Mork!
Chaos pretty much hates everybody that doesn't see their point of view and I do like the idea of Chaos being able to wander around imperial cities, but I'm not sure how well that would translate into a PvP Situation without MAJOR MAJOR cutting edge coding that nobody has ever seen before.
So for the Inquisition why not just play the part and Sniff out the Heretics as NPCs and in RvR setting of Outposts on fringe worlds you could hunt down the Chaos players but they'd be hunting you as well.
The two eldar races would sooner die out than rejoin one another, The craftworld eldar are more concerned about keeping the balance in the universe and making sure the Necrons don't wipe it all out...again. The Dark Eldar of Commorragh are more concerned with who's got the biggest e-peen, indulging in pleasures, and making raids to find more slaves (Just so you know unlike their goody goody counterparts the Dark Eldar use human slaves to do their work for them while they indulge themselves)
Let's put Requisition as the flavor of Money in the game to afford upgrades or various powers (though with Chaos and Dark Eldar most of their Higher level powers would come from either killing enemies a bloodlust sort of thing or collecting souls from anything that dies)
High end game content for mostly everyone would be involved in capturing worlds from one another resulting in massive scale battles. Say the SM are fighting with the IG to claim a world for the Imperium against the Orks on one side and the forces of Chaos on the other all the while the Eldar and Dark Eldar are having it out on the far reaches of the planet doing the same.
Also I feel it would be fighting back the deathless (Necrons) and the insatiable (Tyranids)
For those that have TT Necron Armies and Tyranid Swarms I'm sorry but in MMO Land it kinda makes little to no sense whatsoever to have them playable. Necrons follow ONLY the Necron Lord of a particular Tomb World and the Tyranid Swarm is endless, limitless and works with a singular hive mind. Kinda like how it WoW you can be the Forsaken who are sentient but you can't be the Scourge and like in WAR how you cannot be undead period dot.
Graphics on the game will at least have to be DX10 compatible as anything less than at least this would look worse than the RTS in a fully 3D environs. This is also another point make the environment FULL 3D and destructible.
If some tank goes BOOM on the landscape it ought to be in pieces and in a crater.
Apparently you misspelled tyranids as chaos.
Apparently you haven't bothered to read my posts. I have been referring to WAR. Last I checked it did not have Tyranids.
Learn to read before trolling.
No.
I believe i will troll wherever and whenever and however i like.
You are correct sir.
You have the right to make yourself look as stupid as you choose.
So far you are succeeding stupendously.
Bravo....
Never violate a woman, nor harm a child. Do not lie, cheat or steal. These things are for lesser men. Protect the weak against the evil strong. And never allow thoughts of gain to lead you into the pursuit of evil. Never back away from an enemy. Either fight or surrender. It is not enough to say I will not be evil. Evil must be fought wherever it is found.The Iron Code"
I haven't seen this discussed yet, and I know very little about the WAR40k universe, so here's a question for you guys:
What about mounts?
Do they have them in 40k lore? Are they in the form of big transportation, like spaceships, or more personal like steeds, chariots or badass futuristic bikes?