Well I'm just going to throw this out on the stoop and see if the cat licks it up. (bonus points if you know the movie reference)
What about the Space Marines and their toughness versus the Orks and their ferocity and numbers? At least as a mini game or pvp mode I think we can work with this.
Space marines are more apt to take out 10 Orks, 1 at a time or in small groups, but you can incorporate the mechanic from DoW 1 where Orks get an inherent buff the more Orks are around so that 10 of them will have the upper hand against an equal level SM. But here is the rub: Orks can self combat resurrect up to say 3 times and can respawn at a waypoint in 3 seconds. SM's cannot combat resurrect, have a 20 second respawn timer at waypoints and have a stacking 10% debuff that lasts 30 seconds on respawn.
I am not a fan of death penalties and I will stress that this is an optional hardcore style of play. It should not effect people in PvE and regular space marine players. It should be a pvp mode for those that want to be a legendary Space Marine of lore. It could be kind of like an achievement system with custom titles and rewards you can pass on to other characters you create. If Space Marines are about legends and lineage, this could be that system. One of WAR's bright spot was the reknown system. These guy can earn and lose reknown and earn but not lose levels. Some equipment required levels or reknown but the best required both. So if you lose a reknown level you would never lose your skills gained through leveling but you may have to use stock level based gear until you gain your reknown level back. I am not fond of the ability to go all the way back to zero so there should be cap on reknown level loss (50ish%?)
This won't be popular on the whole but I know end game zealots would possibly eat this up. I think you could take a page from WAR in that early on, PvP was accessible and popular. You could make this system let the average joe mess around with it for some benefit at a slower pace. Yet for the intense minority this could be an alternative to raiding or could be incorporated into raiding and serve much the same function as heroic mode dungeons in WoW or the alternate advancement in EQ.
I know its crazy pie in the sky but we need innovation in this genre. This is the kind of thought that looks back at the positives and negatives of what worked and what didn't and applies it forward. You don't disregard completely something that was poorly executed in the past. Instead you classify it, find out who it did serve versus who it could serve, frame it, improve it and re-release it. There really are very few bad ideas in MMO's. Most were just poorly executed, neutered, or narrowly focused.
@ GamerAeon (not gonna quote your post.... too long)
That might all be fine in DOW or in any other strategy game.... but this will be an MMO !
MMO means, you play 1 Character... ergo there has to be some kind of headcount balance... 10 Marines would have to be equally strong as 10 Orks, Eldar, Tau, etc...
And that is a major Lore rape... say what you will but Marines are not some sort of virtual elite... and Recon Marines don't wear Adamantium Power Armor...
<S.T.E.A.L.T.H> An Agency that kicks so much ass it has to be written in all capital letters... divided by dots! www.stealth-industries.de
@ GamerAeon (not gonna quote your post.... too long)
That might all be fine in DOW or in any other strategy game.... but this will be an MMO !
MMO means, you play 1 Character... ergo there has to be some kind of headcount balance... 10 Marines would have to be equally strong as 10 Orks, Eldar, Tau, etc...
And that is a major Lore rape... say what you will but Marines are not some sort of virtual elite... and Recon Marines don't wear Adamantium Power Armor...
lol According to the fluff they are the Elite of the Imperium forces and thusly when the IG epicfail the SM are called in to do the major head bashing.
Yes I'm aware this is gonna be an MMO but you should keep in mind who's making the thing (THQ/Vigil)
So the SM are probably not gonna be the Mega supermen of the TT and Fluff but in DoW 2 if you play them I've managed to take a single Tactical Squad and tear through several Ork Boyz and Eldar Howling Banshees before they all just completely eat it (Mostly due to the Stormboyz or Eldar Rangers).
Each race is going to HAVE to have some sorta Racial bonus that will mimic their true fluff personas
Like the SM getting Stamina bonuses due to being genetically bred super humans who can withstand major punishment.
IG and Ork would have a Strength in Numbers Bonus where if there's more around the stronger they can get
Orks would also get a big bonus to Regen
Both Eldar races would get Agility bonuses and Dark Eldar would have the ability to have an improved Stealth and immune to poisons (since they pretty much live with poisons daily)
Tau would get a Damage bonus from Tactics since the Tau never ever go into a fight w/o knowing what's needed first.
And on the subject of the Recon Marines, If only...If only. heh
My biggest concern is how do you take a franchise that is based on the plural-entity-experience and make it playable in the singular. WH40K is not based around what one person can do, but what a group can do. If each player is a member of a squad, what happens when his squad-mates are offline? If each person controls a squad, what separates this from DoW? And with the universe being steeped in, and based on, combat, what would make gamers give up on DoW to play this (besides the social aspect of course)? Maybe this will turn out to be DoW3 (online). Or maybe it will go the way of WoW and we'll all be hero classes (God I hope not), fighting alongside AI sqadrons. I must admit, I'm highly skeptical. I love the WH40K universe and hope this turns out well. I can honestly see them going the way of STO ground combat and making your avatar a squad leader with AI squadmates. But with the viral reaction to STO combat, they may shoot themselves if they try this route. But, in the end, the only thing that will keep me from trying this game out is if it is total PvP. Not that there is anything wrong with that; it's just not my cup of tea.
I'm thinking of a Battlefield kind of squads here. You can group with a certain number of people to form a group based on what they are. You can have the choice to join a friends squad, or just a random squad. Even the lone wolves could click a button and go on their way. It could group you into squads that spawn near each other, that way they don't have to run all the way back and the fight goes on until all are dead. Squads could be split into companies, and maybe clan organization could place you in groups and companies? Just some ideas, but personally, an mmofps route for this would be GREAT! Not like, Darkfall (Which I currently play by the way) where you have to walk a long way to find a good match for some PvP or action. Lots of action and content is what this IP needs. Especially with all the lore involved... Think about it, Dawn of War 40k, but you control one of those factions marines/fighters in those epic battles. That's just my two cents
My biggest concern is how do you take a franchise that is based on the plural-entity-experience and make it playable in the singular. WH40K is not based around what one person can do, but what a group can do. If each player is a member of a squad, what happens when his squad-mates are offline? If each person controls a squad, what separates this from DoW? And with the universe being steeped in, and based on, combat, what would make gamers give up on DoW to play this (besides the social aspect of course)? Maybe this will turn out to be DoW3 (online). Or maybe it will go the way of WoW and we'll all be hero classes (God I hope not), fighting alongside AI sqadrons. I must admit, I'm highly skeptical. I love the WH40K universe and hope this turns out well. I can honestly see them going the way of STO ground combat and making your avatar a squad leader with AI squadmates. But with the viral reaction to STO combat, they may shoot themselves if they try this route. But, in the end, the only thing that will keep me from trying this game out is if it is total PvP. Not that there is anything wrong with that; it's just not my cup of tea.
I'm thinking of a Battlefield kind of squads here. You can group with a certain number of people to form a group based on what they are. You can have the choice to join a friends squad, or just a random squad. Even the lone wolves could click a button and go on their way. It could group you into squads that spawn near each other, that way they don't have to run all the way back and the fight goes on until all are dead. Squads could be split into companies, and maybe clan organization could place you in groups and companies? Just some ideas, but personally, an mmofps route for this would be GREAT! Not like, Darkfall (Which I currently play by the way) where you have to walk a long way to find a good match for some PvP or action. Lots of action and content is what this IP needs. Especially with all the lore involved... Think about it, Dawn of War 40k, but you control one of those factions marines/fighters in those epic battles. That's just my two cents
Hmm..i guess I'm missing something...but why would you want your MMO to so closely reflect that tabletop. If you love the tabletop mechanics that much play the tabletop. If you love the "feel" of the game then i would think you would be ok with being 1 character thrust into the madness of war 38k years in the future...
Ok ok ok... I'll bite. How exactly is that going to work? How are you going to have a PvE focus with this game? What's the end-game going to be? Heck, what are you going to do while leveling up that won't be the same "Kill 10 Xenos" quest over and over?
Add to it, the fact that you are also calling for them to abolish the Tank, Healer, Damage trinity that makes PvE possible in the way you are all wanting. How are raids going to be done? Just a bunch of running around jump strafing? Right...
Personally, WAR was my hope for DAoC 2. Didn't happen. Please oh please THQ, give me my epic PvP game back. I don't care if its in a Sci-Fi Universe, just give me it back!
And to all the ignorant masses out there, PvE sure does have big numbers, but back in the day DAoC had big numbers too because they did it right. Then lets also take into account the type of players that are playing games like WoW nowadays.
I'd sacrifice a couple thousand subscribers to avoid that clusterf@ck of failure.
Ok people what the heck are you thinking. PvE as the main aspect? Are you kidding? Ok ok ok... I'll bite. How exactly is that going to work? How are you going to have a PvE focus with this game? What's the end-game going to be? Heck, what are you going to do while leveling up that won't be the same "Kill 10 Xenos" quest over and over? Add to it, the fact that you are also calling for them to abolish the Tank, Healer, Damage trinity that makes PvE possible in the way you are all wanting. How are raids going to be done? Just a bunch of running around jump strafing? Right... Personally, WAR was my hope for DAoC 2. Didn't happen. Please oh please THQ, give me my epic PvP game back. I don't care if its in a Sci-Fi Universe, just give me it back! And to all the ignorant masses out there, PvE sure does have big numbers, but back in the day DAoC had big numbers too because they did it right. Then lets also take into account the type of players that are playing games like WoW nowadays. I'd sacrifice a couple thousand subscribers to avoid that clusterf@ck of failure.
Oh yes! Please give us a game that seriously niches itself at launch! Please give us a game that is a haven for gankers and griefers! Thats always been HIGHLY successful in the past!... I'm certain that the investors/money types wouldn't mind sacrificing a few hundred thousand subscribers, just to appeal to a narrow niche market... Especially in these economic times...
PvE does not need tanks, healers and damage ‘classes’. Why can’t you have PvE that works like part of a BF2142 Titan take down? The ‘quest’ is to infiltrate and take down a small space hulk, you have a medic but he can shoot and kill too, you have players who are more armoured or can do more damage. You also have bot controlling engineers and sneaky recon. You assault the hulk, take out the NPC rebels who have taken it over and claim it for the Imperium.
The combat is more free flowing, twitch based, but the healing and other support roles are still there.
PvE does not need tanks, healers and damage ‘classes’. Why can’t you have PvE that works like part of a BF2142 Titan take down? The ‘quest’ is to infiltrate and take down a small space hulk, you have a medic but he can shoot and kill too, you have players who are more armoured or can do more damage. You also have bot controlling engineers and sneaky recon. You assault the hulk, take out the NPC rebels who have taken it over and claim it for the Imperium.
The combat is more free flowing, twitch based, but the healing and other support roles are still there.
I would certainly hope its RvR, not open PvP.
OPvP is a crime against humanity...It only allows for griefing and ganking and generally will lose any company money if enough people are unhappy long enough with what's going on. (Case in point Allods Online current state)
Unfortunately in WH40k Universe there are those who can tank there are those who can dps there are those who can heal.
But they're all hybrids as a Mad Doc or Apothecary can also blast you in the face and smack you down.
Scenario 1 - The Orks have built up a base on an Imperium Outlying world and thusly the IG are sent in to remove the Orks.
The Orks are now landing on the nearby moon which is occupied by the Tau (Yes according to fluff they like to spy on the Imperium from the moons if possible) The Tau aren't standing for it and you have a Battleground on the moon of Orks v Tau.
Back on the planet the IG are at a standstill reclaiming the Orkhold due to so many Orks and defense the Orks have set up, Enter the SM who drop pod down and proceed to blast their way in.
But is this Scenario just Orks Tau IG and SM? Oh no! For also on the planet is an ancient Webway gate that flickers to life the moment the Orks settle down on the planet and the Imperium forces draw near it. The Eldar come forth and decide to covertly assist the Imperium taking down the Orkhold, But! With every Force of good the Force of darkness comes to have their say in the matter.
The same webway gate that allowed the Eldar to pass through in a small force also flickers again as 2 Raiders full of DE Warriors comes forth eyeing the battlefield for potential slaves and sport (in the form of combat And yes they can take on the SM mono et mono). So while all this is going on you have this happening as follows
a BG with Orks v Tau on the moon
Eldar get a Stealth mission to sabotage the Orkhold
Dark Eldar get your not so typical Capture X Humans Cause X% of damage to everybody.
Orks get a BG and a Defend mission (if they so choose though it'd be PvP)
IG get a mission to repair and rebuild as well as defend from the Dark Eldar (again PvP)
SM get an Assault mission to take out the Orkhold
So this is just ONE Scenario on a single planet (and moon) where nearly everybody is involved in some sort of combat whether it be PvP or PvE. This would give players a twitch based combat because everything is happening rather quickly, it's not your typical go slaughter X Orks or X Mob thing. The BG adds Uniqueness to the experience (Btw the BG is more like WAR's RvR contested areas than an actual instance).
PvE does not need tanks, healers and damage ‘classes’. Why can’t you have PvE that works like part of a BF2142 Titan take down? The ‘quest’ is to infiltrate and take down a small space hulk, you have a medic but he can shoot and kill too, you have players who are more armoured or can do more damage. You also have bot controlling engineers and sneaky recon. You assault the hulk, take out the NPC rebels who have taken it over and claim it for the Imperium.
The combat is more free flowing, twitch based, but the healing and other support roles are still there.
I would certainly hope its RvR, not open PvP.
OPvP is a crime against humanity...It only allows for griefing and ganking and generally will lose any company money if enough people are unhappy long enough with what's going on. (Case in point Allods Online current state)
Unfortunately in WH40k Universe there are those who can tank there are those who can dps there are those who can heal.
But they're all hybrids as a Mad Doc or Apothecary can also blast you in the face and smack you down.
Scenario 1 - The Orks have built up a base on an Imperium Outlying world and thusly the IG are sent in to remove the Orks.
The Orks are now landing on the nearby moon which is occupied by the Tau (Yes according to fluff they like to spy on the Imperium from the moons if possible) The Tau aren't standing for it and you have a Battleground on the moon of Orks v Tau.
Back on the planet the IG are at a standstill reclaiming the Orkhold due to so many Orks and defense the Orks have set up, Enter the SM who drop pod down and proceed to blast their way in.
But is this Scenario just Orks Tau IG and SM? Oh no! For also on the planet is an ancient Webway gate that flickers to life the moment the Orks settle down on the planet and the Imperium forces draw near it. The Eldar come forth and decide to covertly assist the Imperium taking down the Orkhold, But! With every Force of good the Force of darkness comes to have their say in the matter.
The same webway gate that allowed the Eldar to pass through in a small force also flickers again as 2 Raiders full of DE Warriors comes forth eyeing the battlefield for potential slaves and sport (in the form of combat And yes they can take on the SM mono et mono). So while all this is going on you have this happening as follows
a BG with Orks v Tau on the moon
Eldar get a Stealth mission to sabotage the Orkhold
Dark Eldar get your not so typical Capture X Humans Cause X% of damage to everybody.
Orks get a BG and a Defend mission (if they so choose though it'd be PvP)
IG get a mission to repair and rebuild as well as defend from the Dark Eldar (again PvP)
SM get an Assault mission to take out the Orkhold
So this is just ONE Scenario on a single planet (and moon) where nearly everybody is involved in some sort of combat whether it be PvP or PvE. This would give players a twitch based combat because everything is happening rather quickly, it's not your typical go slaughter X Orks or X Mob thing. The BG adds Uniqueness to the experience (Btw the BG is more like WAR's RvR contested areas than an actual instance).
If they do something like that the game would be awesome. Love the idea, but unfortunately I don't think we'll se something like that (I just hope I'm wrong :P)
ill tell you what, armor in this game needs to be EXTREMELY customizable, and i mean EXTREMELY! whole point of warhammer is to paint your soldiers.
there needs to be a SERIOUS, and i MEAN SERIOUS colour customization.
hell, if they give me a digital paintbrush ingame (with diff. brushes, brush sizes etc (even text!)), where i can design my own designs, that would be perfect, not just generic 1 colour for helm, 1 colour for boots, etc...
PvE does not need tanks, healers and damage ‘classes’. Why can’t you have PvE that works like part of a BF2142 Titan take down? The ‘quest’ is to infiltrate and take down a small space hulk, you have a medic but he can shoot and kill too, you have players who are more armoured or can do more damage. You also have bot controlling engineers and sneaky recon. You assault the hulk, take out the NPC rebels who have taken it over and claim it for the Imperium.
The combat is more free flowing, twitch based, but the healing and other support roles are still there.
I would certainly hope its RvR, not open PvP.
OPvP is a crime against humanity...It only allows for griefing and ganking and generally will lose any company money if enough people are unhappy long enough with what's going on. (Case in point Allods Online current state)
Unfortunately in WH40k Universe there are those who can tank there are those who can dps there are those who can heal.
But they're all hybrids as a Mad Doc or Apothecary can also blast you in the face and smack you down.
Scenario 1 - The Orks have built up a base on an Imperium Outlying world and thusly the IG are sent in to remove the Orks.
The Orks are now landing on the nearby moon which is occupied by the Tau (Yes according to fluff they like to spy on the Imperium from the moons if possible) The Tau aren't standing for it and you have a Battleground on the moon of Orks v Tau.
Back on the planet the IG are at a standstill reclaiming the Orkhold due to so many Orks and defense the Orks have set up, Enter the SM who drop pod down and proceed to blast their way in.
But is this Scenario just Orks Tau IG and SM? Oh no! For also on the planet is an ancient Webway gate that flickers to life the moment the Orks settle down on the planet and the Imperium forces draw near it. The Eldar come forth and decide to covertly assist the Imperium taking down the Orkhold, But! With every Force of good the Force of darkness comes to have their say in the matter.
The same webway gate that allowed the Eldar to pass through in a small force also flickers again as 2 Raiders full of DE Warriors comes forth eyeing the battlefield for potential slaves and sport (in the form of combat And yes they can take on the SM mono et mono). So while all this is going on you have this happening as follows
a BG with Orks v Tau on the moon
Eldar get a Stealth mission to sabotage the Orkhold
Dark Eldar get your not so typical Capture X Humans Cause X% of damage to everybody.
Orks get a BG and a Defend mission (if they so choose though it'd be PvP)
IG get a mission to repair and rebuild as well as defend from the Dark Eldar (again PvP)
SM get an Assault mission to take out the Orkhold
So this is just ONE Scenario on a single planet (and moon) where nearly everybody is involved in some sort of combat whether it be PvP or PvE. This would give players a twitch based combat because everything is happening rather quickly, it's not your typical go slaughter X Orks or X Mob thing. The BG adds Uniqueness to the experience (Btw the BG is more like WAR's RvR contested areas than an actual instance).
If they do something like that the game would be awesome. Love the idea, but unfortunately I don't think we'll se something like that (I just hope I'm wrong :P)
Here's to hoping someone from THQ on the project with Vigil happens along and sees it lol
Things like that would make the game pop and really immerse everybody into the WH40k Universe since it's pretty close to what would actually happen if things went that way in a Story based on the fluff. I was actually surprised to learn that the Dark Eldar can stand up 1:1 with the Space Marines.
What the hell happened to our brains? Planetside(not that i want wh40k to be exactly like it) had no MOB at all. Where were we when we played that game? Why is it so weird now, to conceive a game without NPCs' quests?
If you're thinking market then i tell you Warhammer Online and other commercial games are not so good for business. Nobody can be sure that an apparently NICHE game won't be loved by millions of players. Market researchers don't know everything.
In my own point of view commercial "safe" choices can give you moderate profit that may well tend to bankrupt your company. In my own calculations, innovation can be much more profitable and even less risky.
What else? Obviously i would love to see dynamic battlegrounds, armies that join the fray and all.
But the point is to make it player-driven... all the "drama" that has been cited can't be decided by the programmers, they should only provide REASONS for US players to formulate those "claims" and objectives that the person above skillfully told... otherwise if we just execute these dramas we're just cannon fodder, we won't care about what we do and WHY we do it, it'll be META-gaming all over again.
Also the game's winning strike should definitely be temporary WAR HOUSING, with production and extraction of resources. Buildings HARD to maintain, to manage, to defend.
What the hell happened to our brains? Planetside(not that i want wh40k to be exactly like it) had no MOB at all. Where were we when we played that game? Why is it so weird now, to conceive a game without NPCs' quests?
If you're thinking market then i tell you Warhammer Online and other commercial games are not so good for business. Nobody can be sure that an apparently NICHE game won't be loved by millions of players. Market researchers don't know everything.
In my own point of view commercial "safe" choices can give you moderate profit that may well tend to bankrupt your company. In my own calculations, innovation can be much more profitable and even less risky.
What else? Obviously i would love to see dynamic battlegrounds, armies that join the fray and all.
But the point is to make it player-driven... all the "drama" that has been cited can't be decided by the programmers, they should only provide REASONS for US players to formulate those "claims" and objectives that the person above skillfully told... otherwise if we just execute these dramas we're just cannon fodder, we won't care about what we do and WHY we do it, it'll be META-gaming all over again.
Also the game's winning strike should definitely be temporary WAR HOUSING, with production and extraction of resources. Buildings HARD to maintain, to manage, to defend.
You don't need to convince me. Who needs to be convinced are the investors/money types who get all starry eyed when they hear the mystic phrase; "Its just like World of Warcraft". Sand box games all too often turn into havens for gankers and griefers. There is a very limited demographic for such games, as a result. Given the tens of millions(of other peoples money) that major MMO's cost these days, only an eccentric billionaire type would be likely to take the risks involved for such a game.
Especially in the current global economic situation. Damn few people are going to risk their jobs(or careers...) by making such a risky decision. Its FAR safer to stay with the pack, and risk as little as possible and if the game flops, blame the technical/marketing team. That strategy is as old as business itself.
Sorry to break it guys but could we just have a FUN game even if it's not even 80% lore accurate?
I have lead figurines that you can't even find in store since 10+ years (maybe 20), but honestly what's the most important a lore accurate game or a FUN game?
You don't need to convince me. Who needs to be convinced are the investors/money types who get all starry eyed when they hear the mystic phrase; "Its just like World of Warcraft". Sand box games all too often turn into havens for gankers and griefers. There is a very limited demographic for such games, as a result. Given the tens of millions(of other peoples money) that major MMO's cost these days, only an eccentric billionaire type would be likely to take the risks involved for such a game. Especially in the current global economic situation. Damn few people are going to risk their jobs(or careers...) by making such a risky decision. Its FAR safer to stay with the pack, and risk as little as possible and if the game flops, blame the technical/marketing team. That strategy is as old as business itself.
Nobody should make any MMO as long as WoW is a succesful game, then
either way with Warhammer 40k we'll see the usual MOB farming, the usual babysitting kill 10 rats quests, the usual pre-cooked activities to do, the usual gear-whoring, the usual everything, with some superficial changes in the PvP fighting and ofc all the empty gimmicks of a trademark, looks, music, mood, names, all the graphical stuff.
Sorry to break it guys but could we just have a FUN game even if it's not even 80% lore accurate?
I have lead figurines that you can't even find in store since 10+ years (maybe 20), but honestly what's the most important a lore accurate game or a FUN game?
Considering it's WH40k a bit of both...If they ignore the fluff altogether they'll launch down the tubes faster than a greased up fat man.
The reason development companies GO after Huge IPs is to IMMERSE You IN that world.
DoW and DoW 2 are ok but they're RTS titles and barely scratched the surface on the Universe that is WH40k
The epic conflicts and eternal struggles that the races face and seeing just WHAT an imperium city would look like Just exactly what it would be like to fight down the streets of Commorragh and just how big a space hulk full of Orks really is.
It's HIGHLY unlikely THQ will fail with the project so far they've done a pretty decent job of keeping the story going introducing characters that those of us familiar with the fluff know. So here's to THQ & Vigil getting this IP going on the MMO scene and the hopes that it WON'T be WAR in Space.
As far as combat goes just make it as close to Mass Effect's over the shoulder as possible but give me the option to zoom the camera out with the mouse wheel and check my character out. Of course seeing as it's a persistent world with other players I'm assuming that the "bullet time" like abilities will have to go but that's ok because I'm really only talking about the camera position, the ability to take cover and the reticule zoom. Give me those 3 things in addition to the slew of other necessary triple A MMO ingredients and I'll be over joyed.
Originally posted by GamerAeon Originally posted by Deewe Sorry to break it guys but could we just have a FUN game even if it's not even 80% lore accurate?
I have lead figurines that you can't even find in store since 10+ years (maybe 20), but honestly what's the most important a lore accurate game or a FUN game?
Considering it's WH40k a bit of both...If they ignore the fluff altogether they'll launch down the tubes faster than a greased up fat man. The reason development companies GO after Huge IPs is to IMMERSE You IN that world. DoW and DoW 2 are ok but they're RTS titles and barely scratched the surface on the Universe that is WH40k The epic conflicts and eternal struggles that the races face and seeing just WHAT an imperium city would look like Just exactly what it would be like to fight down the streets of Commorragh and just how big a space hulk full of Orks really is. It's HIGHLY unlikely THQ will fail with the project so far they've done a pretty decent job of keeping the story going introducing characters that those of us familiar with the fluff know. So here's to THQ & Vigil getting this IP going on the MMO scene and the hopes that it WON'T be WAR in Space.
I think I like the fact that THQ haven't done an MMORPG yet (as far as I know of). So this should introduce a fresh perspective on how an MMO could be designed.
I agree with an earlier poster, I really hope they keep all the races/factions separate. If any combining of the races should be formed under a faction, let the players decide, integrate some form of a political system where players ultimately decide whether or not they need to team up with <insert lesser necessary evil> to take down <insert greater overpowering evil> within the world. It should breed war and all other forms of chaos. I really hope they play into that.
WH40k factions are quite different from Warhammer. While in th e later races share a common world, in wh40k they share a universe and members of one race rarely ever meet or even see other races. And in the case, they on of the two dies inthe process.
Moreover tabletop game mechanics are very different from one race to another, leveraging a lot on the numbers of the factions. For example, I had a 16 model army and a 60 model army for the same ammount of points. Such features you cannot translate in a MMO IMHO.
Lastly, Wh40k is heavily based on fluff. Translating fluff in MMO game mechanics is going to kill a lot of fluffy aspects, which is one of the strength of the WH40k environment. IF they actually are going to do this, I can just hope in a miracle
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Well I'm just going to throw this out on the stoop and see if the cat licks it up. (bonus points if you know the movie reference)
What about the Space Marines and their toughness versus the Orks and their ferocity and numbers? At least as a mini game or pvp mode I think we can work with this.
Space marines are more apt to take out 10 Orks, 1 at a time or in small groups, but you can incorporate the mechanic from DoW 1 where Orks get an inherent buff the more Orks are around so that 10 of them will have the upper hand against an equal level SM. But here is the rub: Orks can self combat resurrect up to say 3 times and can respawn at a waypoint in 3 seconds. SM's cannot combat resurrect, have a 20 second respawn timer at waypoints and have a stacking 10% debuff that lasts 30 seconds on respawn.
I am not a fan of death penalties and I will stress that this is an optional hardcore style of play. It should not effect people in PvE and regular space marine players. It should be a pvp mode for those that want to be a legendary Space Marine of lore. It could be kind of like an achievement system with custom titles and rewards you can pass on to other characters you create. If Space Marines are about legends and lineage, this could be that system. One of WAR's bright spot was the reknown system. These guy can earn and lose reknown and earn but not lose levels. Some equipment required levels or reknown but the best required both. So if you lose a reknown level you would never lose your skills gained through leveling but you may have to use stock level based gear until you gain your reknown level back. I am not fond of the ability to go all the way back to zero so there should be cap on reknown level loss (50ish%?)
This won't be popular on the whole but I know end game zealots would possibly eat this up. I think you could take a page from WAR in that early on, PvP was accessible and popular. You could make this system let the average joe mess around with it for some benefit at a slower pace. Yet for the intense minority this could be an alternative to raiding or could be incorporated into raiding and serve much the same function as heroic mode dungeons in WoW or the alternate advancement in EQ.
I know its crazy pie in the sky but we need innovation in this genre. This is the kind of thought that looks back at the positives and negatives of what worked and what didn't and applies it forward. You don't disregard completely something that was poorly executed in the past. Instead you classify it, find out who it did serve versus who it could serve, frame it, improve it and re-release it. There really are very few bad ideas in MMO's. Most were just poorly executed, neutered, or narrowly focused.
This game may be another WoWish MMO with better graphics. But I may be wrong.
@ GamerAeon (not gonna quote your post.... too long)
That might all be fine in DOW or in any other strategy game.... but this will be an MMO !
MMO means, you play 1 Character... ergo there has to be some kind of headcount balance... 10 Marines would have to be equally strong as 10 Orks, Eldar, Tau, etc...
And that is a major Lore rape... say what you will but Marines are not some sort of virtual elite... and Recon Marines don't wear Adamantium Power Armor...
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Ill be happy as long as it has no NPC quests.
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The chances of that are vanishingly small.
lol According to the fluff they are the Elite of the Imperium forces and thusly when the IG epicfail the SM are called in to do the major head bashing.
Yes I'm aware this is gonna be an MMO but you should keep in mind who's making the thing (THQ/Vigil)
So the SM are probably not gonna be the Mega supermen of the TT and Fluff but in DoW 2 if you play them I've managed to take a single Tactical Squad and tear through several Ork Boyz and Eldar Howling Banshees before they all just completely eat it (Mostly due to the Stormboyz or Eldar Rangers).
Each race is going to HAVE to have some sorta Racial bonus that will mimic their true fluff personas
Like the SM getting Stamina bonuses due to being genetically bred super humans who can withstand major punishment.
IG and Ork would have a Strength in Numbers Bonus where if there's more around the stronger they can get
Orks would also get a big bonus to Regen
Both Eldar races would get Agility bonuses and Dark Eldar would have the ability to have an improved Stealth and immune to poisons (since they pretty much live with poisons daily)
Tau would get a Damage bonus from Tactics since the Tau never ever go into a fight w/o knowing what's needed first.
And on the subject of the Recon Marines, If only...If only. heh
I'm thinking of a Battlefield kind of squads here. You can group with a certain number of people to form a group based on what they are. You can have the choice to join a friends squad, or just a random squad. Even the lone wolves could click a button and go on their way. It could group you into squads that spawn near each other, that way they don't have to run all the way back and the fight goes on until all are dead. Squads could be split into companies, and maybe clan organization could place you in groups and companies? Just some ideas, but personally, an mmofps route for this would be GREAT! Not like, Darkfall (Which I currently play by the way) where you have to walk a long way to find a good match for some PvP or action. Lots of action and content is what this IP needs. Especially with all the lore involved... Think about it, Dawn of War 40k, but you control one of those factions marines/fighters in those epic battles. That's just my two cents
Pepsi1028
PEPSI!!!!!
Get out of your box already...
I'm thinking of a Battlefield kind of squads here. You can group with a certain number of people to form a group based on what they are. You can have the choice to join a friends squad, or just a random squad. Even the lone wolves could click a button and go on their way. It could group you into squads that spawn near each other, that way they don't have to run all the way back and the fight goes on until all are dead. Squads could be split into companies, and maybe clan organization could place you in groups and companies? Just some ideas, but personally, an mmofps route for this would be GREAT! Not like, Darkfall (Which I currently play by the way) where you have to walk a long way to find a good match for some PvP or action. Lots of action and content is what this IP needs. Especially with all the lore involved... Think about it, Dawn of War 40k, but you control one of those factions marines/fighters in those epic battles. That's just my two cents
Hmm..i guess I'm missing something...but why would you want your MMO to so closely reflect that tabletop. If you love the tabletop mechanics that much play the tabletop. If you love the "feel" of the game then i would think you would be ok with being 1 character thrust into the madness of war 38k years in the future...
Ok people what the heck are you thinking.
PvE as the main aspect? Are you kidding?
Ok ok ok... I'll bite. How exactly is that going to work? How are you going to have a PvE focus with this game? What's the end-game going to be? Heck, what are you going to do while leveling up that won't be the same "Kill 10 Xenos" quest over and over?
Add to it, the fact that you are also calling for them to abolish the Tank, Healer, Damage trinity that makes PvE possible in the way you are all wanting. How are raids going to be done? Just a bunch of running around jump strafing? Right...
Personally, WAR was my hope for DAoC 2. Didn't happen. Please oh please THQ, give me my epic PvP game back. I don't care if its in a Sci-Fi Universe, just give me it back!
And to all the ignorant masses out there, PvE sure does have big numbers, but back in the day DAoC had big numbers too because they did it right. Then lets also take into account the type of players that are playing games like WoW nowadays.
I'd sacrifice a couple thousand subscribers to avoid that clusterf@ck of failure.
Oh yes! Please give us a game that seriously niches itself at launch! Please give us a game that is a haven for gankers and griefers! Thats always been HIGHLY successful in the past!... I'm certain that the investors/money types wouldn't mind sacrificing a few hundred thousand subscribers, just to appeal to a narrow niche market... Especially in these economic times...
PvE does not need tanks, healers and damage ‘classes’. Why can’t you have PvE that works like part of a BF2142 Titan take down? The ‘quest’ is to infiltrate and take down a small space hulk, you have a medic but he can shoot and kill too, you have players who are more armoured or can do more damage. You also have bot controlling engineers and sneaky recon. You assault the hulk, take out the NPC rebels who have taken it over and claim it for the Imperium.
The combat is more free flowing, twitch based, but the healing and other support roles are still there.
I would certainly hope its RvR, not open PvP.
OPvP is a crime against humanity...It only allows for griefing and ganking and generally will lose any company money if enough people are unhappy long enough with what's going on. (Case in point Allods Online current state)
Unfortunately in WH40k Universe there are those who can tank there are those who can dps there are those who can heal.
But they're all hybrids as a Mad Doc or Apothecary can also blast you in the face and smack you down.
Scenario 1 - The Orks have built up a base on an Imperium Outlying world and thusly the IG are sent in to remove the Orks.
The Orks are now landing on the nearby moon which is occupied by the Tau (Yes according to fluff they like to spy on the Imperium from the moons if possible) The Tau aren't standing for it and you have a Battleground on the moon of Orks v Tau.
Back on the planet the IG are at a standstill reclaiming the Orkhold due to so many Orks and defense the Orks have set up, Enter the SM who drop pod down and proceed to blast their way in.
But is this Scenario just Orks Tau IG and SM? Oh no! For also on the planet is an ancient Webway gate that flickers to life the moment the Orks settle down on the planet and the Imperium forces draw near it. The Eldar come forth and decide to covertly assist the Imperium taking down the Orkhold, But! With every Force of good the Force of darkness comes to have their say in the matter.
The same webway gate that allowed the Eldar to pass through in a small force also flickers again as 2 Raiders full of DE Warriors comes forth eyeing the battlefield for potential slaves and sport (in the form of combat And yes they can take on the SM mono et mono). So while all this is going on you have this happening as follows
a BG with Orks v Tau on the moon
Eldar get a Stealth mission to sabotage the Orkhold
Dark Eldar get your not so typical Capture X Humans Cause X% of damage to everybody.
Orks get a BG and a Defend mission (if they so choose though it'd be PvP)
IG get a mission to repair and rebuild as well as defend from the Dark Eldar (again PvP)
SM get an Assault mission to take out the Orkhold
So this is just ONE Scenario on a single planet (and moon) where nearly everybody is involved in some sort of combat whether it be PvP or PvE. This would give players a twitch based combat because everything is happening rather quickly, it's not your typical go slaughter X Orks or X Mob thing. The BG adds Uniqueness to the experience (Btw the BG is more like WAR's RvR contested areas than an actual instance).
OPvP is a crime against humanity...It only allows for griefing and ganking and generally will lose any company money if enough people are unhappy long enough with what's going on. (Case in point Allods Online current state)
Unfortunately in WH40k Universe there are those who can tank there are those who can dps there are those who can heal.
But they're all hybrids as a Mad Doc or Apothecary can also blast you in the face and smack you down.
Scenario 1 - The Orks have built up a base on an Imperium Outlying world and thusly the IG are sent in to remove the Orks.
The Orks are now landing on the nearby moon which is occupied by the Tau (Yes according to fluff they like to spy on the Imperium from the moons if possible) The Tau aren't standing for it and you have a Battleground on the moon of Orks v Tau.
Back on the planet the IG are at a standstill reclaiming the Orkhold due to so many Orks and defense the Orks have set up, Enter the SM who drop pod down and proceed to blast their way in.
But is this Scenario just Orks Tau IG and SM? Oh no! For also on the planet is an ancient Webway gate that flickers to life the moment the Orks settle down on the planet and the Imperium forces draw near it. The Eldar come forth and decide to covertly assist the Imperium taking down the Orkhold, But! With every Force of good the Force of darkness comes to have their say in the matter.
The same webway gate that allowed the Eldar to pass through in a small force also flickers again as 2 Raiders full of DE Warriors comes forth eyeing the battlefield for potential slaves and sport (in the form of combat And yes they can take on the SM mono et mono). So while all this is going on you have this happening as follows
a BG with Orks v Tau on the moon
Eldar get a Stealth mission to sabotage the Orkhold
Dark Eldar get your not so typical Capture X Humans Cause X% of damage to everybody.
Orks get a BG and a Defend mission (if they so choose though it'd be PvP)
IG get a mission to repair and rebuild as well as defend from the Dark Eldar (again PvP)
SM get an Assault mission to take out the Orkhold
So this is just ONE Scenario on a single planet (and moon) where nearly everybody is involved in some sort of combat whether it be PvP or PvE. This would give players a twitch based combat because everything is happening rather quickly, it's not your typical go slaughter X Orks or X Mob thing. The BG adds Uniqueness to the experience (Btw the BG is more like WAR's RvR contested areas than an actual instance).
If they do something like that the game would be awesome. Love the idea, but unfortunately I don't think we'll se something like that (I just hope I'm wrong :P)
ill tell you what, armor in this game needs to be EXTREMELY customizable, and i mean EXTREMELY! whole point of warhammer is to paint your soldiers.
there needs to be a SERIOUS, and i MEAN SERIOUS colour customization.
hell, if they give me a digital paintbrush ingame (with diff. brushes, brush sizes etc (even text!)), where i can design my own designs, that would be perfect, not just generic 1 colour for helm, 1 colour for boots, etc...
OPvP is a crime against humanity...It only allows for griefing and ganking and generally will lose any company money if enough people are unhappy long enough with what's going on. (Case in point Allods Online current state)
Unfortunately in WH40k Universe there are those who can tank there are those who can dps there are those who can heal.
But they're all hybrids as a Mad Doc or Apothecary can also blast you in the face and smack you down.
Scenario 1 - The Orks have built up a base on an Imperium Outlying world and thusly the IG are sent in to remove the Orks.
The Orks are now landing on the nearby moon which is occupied by the Tau (Yes according to fluff they like to spy on the Imperium from the moons if possible) The Tau aren't standing for it and you have a Battleground on the moon of Orks v Tau.
Back on the planet the IG are at a standstill reclaiming the Orkhold due to so many Orks and defense the Orks have set up, Enter the SM who drop pod down and proceed to blast their way in.
But is this Scenario just Orks Tau IG and SM? Oh no! For also on the planet is an ancient Webway gate that flickers to life the moment the Orks settle down on the planet and the Imperium forces draw near it. The Eldar come forth and decide to covertly assist the Imperium taking down the Orkhold, But! With every Force of good the Force of darkness comes to have their say in the matter.
The same webway gate that allowed the Eldar to pass through in a small force also flickers again as 2 Raiders full of DE Warriors comes forth eyeing the battlefield for potential slaves and sport (in the form of combat And yes they can take on the SM mono et mono). So while all this is going on you have this happening as follows
a BG with Orks v Tau on the moon
Eldar get a Stealth mission to sabotage the Orkhold
Dark Eldar get your not so typical Capture X Humans Cause X% of damage to everybody.
Orks get a BG and a Defend mission (if they so choose though it'd be PvP)
IG get a mission to repair and rebuild as well as defend from the Dark Eldar (again PvP)
SM get an Assault mission to take out the Orkhold
So this is just ONE Scenario on a single planet (and moon) where nearly everybody is involved in some sort of combat whether it be PvP or PvE. This would give players a twitch based combat because everything is happening rather quickly, it's not your typical go slaughter X Orks or X Mob thing. The BG adds Uniqueness to the experience (Btw the BG is more like WAR's RvR contested areas than an actual instance).
If they do something like that the game would be awesome. Love the idea, but unfortunately I don't think we'll se something like that (I just hope I'm wrong :P)
Here's to hoping someone from THQ on the project with Vigil happens along and sees it lol
Things like that would make the game pop and really immerse everybody into the WH40k Universe since it's pretty close to what would actually happen if things went that way in a Story based on the fluff. I was actually surprised to learn that the Dark Eldar can stand up 1:1 with the Space Marines.
I just hope there is no CTF or Territories. Blending FPS with pointless MMO battlegrounds makes nostalgia for past games come roaring to life.
CTF...noooo
As for the second one...Do you know much about WH40k?
The chances of that are vanishingly small.
What the hell happened to our brains? Planetside(not that i want wh40k to be exactly like it) had no MOB at all. Where were we when we played that game? Why is it so weird now, to conceive a game without NPCs' quests?
If you're thinking market then i tell you Warhammer Online and other commercial games are not so good for business. Nobody can be sure that an apparently NICHE game won't be loved by millions of players. Market researchers don't know everything.
In my own point of view commercial "safe" choices can give you moderate profit that may well tend to bankrupt your company. In my own calculations, innovation can be much more profitable and even less risky.
What else? Obviously i would love to see dynamic battlegrounds, armies that join the fray and all.
But the point is to make it player-driven... all the "drama" that has been cited can't be decided by the programmers, they should only provide REASONS for US players to formulate those "claims" and objectives that the person above skillfully told... otherwise if we just execute these dramas we're just cannon fodder, we won't care about what we do and WHY we do it, it'll be META-gaming all over again.
Also the game's winning strike should definitely be temporary WAR HOUSING, with production and extraction of resources. Buildings HARD to maintain, to manage, to defend.
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The chances of that are vanishingly small.
What the hell happened to our brains? Planetside(not that i want wh40k to be exactly like it) had no MOB at all. Where were we when we played that game? Why is it so weird now, to conceive a game without NPCs' quests?
If you're thinking market then i tell you Warhammer Online and other commercial games are not so good for business. Nobody can be sure that an apparently NICHE game won't be loved by millions of players. Market researchers don't know everything.
In my own point of view commercial "safe" choices can give you moderate profit that may well tend to bankrupt your company. In my own calculations, innovation can be much more profitable and even less risky.
What else? Obviously i would love to see dynamic battlegrounds, armies that join the fray and all.
But the point is to make it player-driven... all the "drama" that has been cited can't be decided by the programmers, they should only provide REASONS for US players to formulate those "claims" and objectives that the person above skillfully told... otherwise if we just execute these dramas we're just cannon fodder, we won't care about what we do and WHY we do it, it'll be META-gaming all over again.
Also the game's winning strike should definitely be temporary WAR HOUSING, with production and extraction of resources. Buildings HARD to maintain, to manage, to defend.
You don't need to convince me. Who needs to be convinced are the investors/money types who get all starry eyed when they hear the mystic phrase; "Its just like World of Warcraft". Sand box games all too often turn into havens for gankers and griefers. There is a very limited demographic for such games, as a result. Given the tens of millions(of other peoples money) that major MMO's cost these days, only an eccentric billionaire type would be likely to take the risks involved for such a game.
Especially in the current global economic situation. Damn few people are going to risk their jobs(or careers...) by making such a risky decision. Its FAR safer to stay with the pack, and risk as little as possible and if the game flops, blame the technical/marketing team. That strategy is as old as business itself.
Sorry to break it guys but could we just have a FUN game even if it's not even 80% lore accurate?
I have lead figurines that you can't even find in store since 10+ years (maybe 20), but honestly what's the most important a lore accurate game or a FUN game?
Nobody should make any MMO as long as WoW is a succesful game, then
either way with Warhammer 40k we'll see the usual MOB farming, the usual babysitting kill 10 rats quests, the usual pre-cooked activities to do, the usual gear-whoring, the usual everything, with some superficial changes in the PvP fighting and ofc all the empty gimmicks of a trademark, looks, music, mood, names, all the graphical stuff.
This is all very sad.
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Considering it's WH40k a bit of both...If they ignore the fluff altogether they'll launch down the tubes faster than a greased up fat man.
The reason development companies GO after Huge IPs is to IMMERSE You IN that world.
DoW and DoW 2 are ok but they're RTS titles and barely scratched the surface on the Universe that is WH40k
The epic conflicts and eternal struggles that the races face and seeing just WHAT an imperium city would look like Just exactly what it would be like to fight down the streets of Commorragh and just how big a space hulk full of Orks really is.
It's HIGHLY unlikely THQ will fail with the project so far they've done a pretty decent job of keeping the story going introducing characters that those of us familiar with the fluff know. So here's to THQ & Vigil getting this IP going on the MMO scene and the hopes that it WON'T be WAR in Space.
As far as combat goes just make it as close to Mass Effect's over the shoulder as possible but give me the option to zoom the camera out with the mouse wheel and check my character out. Of course seeing as it's a persistent world with other players I'm assuming that the "bullet time" like abilities will have to go but that's ok because I'm really only talking about the camera position, the ability to take cover and the reticule zoom. Give me those 3 things in addition to the slew of other necessary triple A MMO ingredients and I'll be over joyed.
Considering it's WH40k a bit of both...If they ignore the fluff altogether they'll launch down the tubes faster than a greased up fat man.
The reason development companies GO after Huge IPs is to IMMERSE You IN that world.
DoW and DoW 2 are ok but they're RTS titles and barely scratched the surface on the Universe that is WH40k
The epic conflicts and eternal struggles that the races face and seeing just WHAT an imperium city would look like Just exactly what it would be like to fight down the streets of Commorragh and just how big a space hulk full of Orks really is.
It's HIGHLY unlikely THQ will fail with the project so far they've done a pretty decent job of keeping the story going introducing characters that those of us familiar with the fluff know. So here's to THQ & Vigil getting this IP going on the MMO scene and the hopes that it WON'T be WAR in Space.
I think I like the fact that THQ haven't done an MMORPG yet (as far as I know of). So this should introduce a fresh perspective on how an MMO could be designed.
I agree with an earlier poster, I really hope they keep all the races/factions separate. If any combining of the races should be formed under a faction, let the players decide, integrate some form of a political system where players ultimately decide whether or not they need to team up with <insert lesser necessary evil> to take down <insert greater overpowering evil> within the world. It should breed war and all other forms of chaos. I really hope they play into that.
WH40k factions are quite different from Warhammer. While in th e later races share a common world, in wh40k they share a universe and members of one race rarely ever meet or even see other races. And in the case, they on of the two dies inthe process.
Moreover tabletop game mechanics are very different from one race to another, leveraging a lot on the numbers of the factions. For example, I had a 16 model army and a 60 model army for the same ammount of points. Such features you cannot translate in a MMO IMHO.
Lastly, Wh40k is heavily based on fluff. Translating fluff in MMO game mechanics is going to kill a lot of fluffy aspects, which is one of the strength of the WH40k environment. IF they actually are going to do this, I can just hope in a miracle
My 2c,
X