Originally posted by ktanner3 ?Originally posted by RoosterNash Snipers miss. It happens. A lot. Not sure where you got your facts from, but it sounds like a "Hollywood" statement. If your research is based on Hollywood gimmicks, then good on you. But a number of factors play into sniping, and it's situational status. Now, if we're going into the semantics of sniping, snipers have spotters. A "true" sniper, without his spotter, is pretty useless. Moreso, a sniper trying to drop a moving target - especially an unpredictable target (which is more likely) - becomes a liability to the integrity of a mission when his cover is blown. Logically, that target is already on alert that the sniper is somewhere out in the cover. Logically, the sniper would want to try and relocate to a better vantage point, once that cover is blown. Depending on the situation (i.e. weather, amount of targets, sniper's location and breathing discipline), the average sniper grosses about 3/5 single-fatals in today's desert warfare regiment. And that number has climbed some. Now, that isn't to say that there aren't those snipers that aren't bad asses who could nail a pumpkin from almost a mile away, but they are pretty rare. And yet, even they don't hold a perfect record. Now, with all of that said, I think that if there's a "sniper shot" for the Imperial Agent - in holding true to the heroism that BW admits to portraying in all classes, that it should be a 100% advantage as long as the IA goes unnoticed by the intended target. This is, after all, a game. Hollywood it up! Just for future reference, I'm not into hollywood and I don't watch much of what tries to pass itself of as entertainment. Just so you know. My experience comes from actually firing one and knowing people who actually did it. If you're a true sniper who is hired to snipe someone or is sent by the government to do so you aren't one that is known for missing often. You're lying prone somewhere at least a couple hundred yards away. No one knows you're there and you have got your target standing still. Unless you have poor breathing and a shaky hand you're going to the hit the body somewhere. That is the scenario I'm talking about, not some battlefield where bullets are flying at you . And while we're on the subject of snipers.......
I myself was rather dissapointed with the gameplay once I saw videos. I mean, it truly is the EQ2 type skill bar that every mmo has been cloning lately. It will be a little nicer to play then slowly getting more burnt out of mmos lately being that everyone is an EQ2 clone because SWTOR has a different UI (Many EQ2 clones have almost the exact same looking UI at this point now, its quite sad) and also seems a little more fluid/fast paced. Plus at least its not wizards and swords and stuff like most mmos. At least you get to have a glowy sword and wizards that have glowy swords that use the "force" right? Wait, there almost the same thing. Yup, this mmo sux gameplay wise.
MMOs played: Too many Watch List: FFXIV, CoH:GR, GW2, SWTOR, TERA, Earthrise
I myself was rather dissapointed with the gameplay once I saw videos. I mean, it truly is the EQ2 type skill bar that every mmo has been cloning lately. It will be a little nicer to play then slowly getting more burnt out of mmos lately being that everyone is an EQ2 clone because SWTOR has a different UI (Many EQ2 clones have almost the exact same looking UI at this point now, its quite sad) and also seems a little more fluid/fast paced. Plus at least its not wizards and swords and stuff like most mmos. At least you get to have a glowy sword and wizards that have glowy swords that use the "force" right? Wait, there almost the same thing. Yup, this mmo sux gameplay wise.
Jedi > Wizards.
Longing for Skyrim, The Old Republic and Mass Effect 3
The combat looks Meh, just as the whole game are. They should just give out there precious story as a book instead, leave gamemaking to them who knows what gameplay are instead.
The combat looks Meh, just as the whole game are. They should just give out there precious story as a book instead, leave gamemaking to them who knows what gameplay are instead.
Are you joking? Bioware doesn't know anything about gameplay? Sounds like you're just a WoW fanboy.
The combat looks Meh, just as the whole game are. They should just give out there precious story as a book instead, leave gamemaking to them who knows what gameplay are instead.
Are you joking? Bioware doesn't know anything about gameplay? Sounds like you're just a WoW fanboy.
looool, i think the one and only MMO i haven`t played is WoW. Where the heck did you pulled that Comeback from??
You on the other hand what are you reading, watching....errr Playing, Dragon age?
Originally posted by Dahlifyr Originally posted by Melroc
Originally posted by Dahlifyr
The combat looks Meh, just as the whole game are. They should just give out there precious story as a book instead, leave gamemaking to them who knows what gameplay are instead.
Are you joking? Bioware doesn't know anything about gameplay? Sounds like you're just a WoW fanboy. looool, i think the one and only MMO i haven`t played is WoW. Where the heck did you pulled that Comeback from?? You on the other hand what are you reading, watching....errr Playing, Dragon age?
He's playing Dragon Age along with 3 million others. They all belong to some neo-hippy group called "good taste".
It's cool though, let those crazies have their epic Bioware games. You're getting a Twilight MMO. You win.
Personally, it looks like the same old same old. Not that it's particularly a bad thing... just not particularly a good thing, either. The animations look pretty clunky and melee doesn't "click" as well as it could (then again, the same could be said for all current MMOs). Only thing I particularly dislike are classes like the Trooper and Bounty Hunter just standing around shooting in the middle of the open. Sure, they have armor, and I understand it from a gameplay standpoint, but it's still ridiculous. It seems odd to make cover available only to the smuggler and agent. It would be more logical for all classes, or at least all the ranged classes, to have the functionality. It also seems horribly rigid and situational.
In any case, it's difficult to judge the combat, since everything we've seen so far is low-level stuff with limited amounts of abilities. But in any case, I think some work could be made to the animations to keep everything smooth. In general, it all just feels too clunky.
I respect your opinion, but I don't see anything "clunky" about the animations.
I don't know what you mean that ALL mmorpgs are 'clunky".
that would seem to mean that NONE are clunky, since I would think you compare them to each other.
You mean compared to a first person shooter animations?
Even so, I just don't see the "clunkiness". Perhaps I'm just not that detail orientated about animations I don't know.
Indeed. How does this look clunky? I mean in EQ2 combat you STAND still 5 minutes hack hack hack. Thats clunky. But this? They jump, the run and dodge, I think this is the most un-clunky MMO combat any MMORPG has. Maybe you need to see more combat movies as this short one does not cover it all. But keep in mind its still a RPG not a FPS. Which means it cant be run like on crack, it still need to be mainly on the characters abilities not the players to be a RPG. But within that context I feel it looks quite good and way less clunky than almost any other MMORPG.
Its difficult to say without playing it yourself, but so far it all looks quite cool to me.
Still, anyone who says this looks ordinary or like any other MMO combat hasnt really watched! I dont know why everyone is such a Negative Nancy these days. I guess even if a company gave away donkey who shit money they'd complain that donkeys stink.
The problem is that the companies and their suporters claim that it's gold that will come out of their donkey. So far - it's been soft brown gold that smells bad.
Geez. IMVPO Imhotepp's points are more spot on and in vibe with the real majority of gamers than 20 other nameless ppl who just come here to nay-say everything down. Maybe its childish to enjoy Star Wars things and swing lightsabers and not poke at every not 100% perfect nitpick detail, but at least I know *I* am going to have a blast of fun in TOR and you can moan and bitch all you like, Statler and Waldorf!
I don't think you DO know, Eli. You HOPE you will enjoy it, but unless your standards are very low - you can't KNOW you will.
Have you even been paying attention to the MMOs released in the last couple of years? If you have, then you should know why some of us are very skeptical.
By this time - all MMO players should be from Missouri.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
The combat looks Meh, just as the whole game are. They should just give out there precious story as a book instead, leave gamemaking to them who knows what gameplay are instead.
Are you joking? Bioware doesn't know anything about gameplay? Sounds like you're just a WoW fanboy.
looool, i think the one and only MMO i haven`t played is WoW. Where the heck did you pulled that Comeback from??
You on the other hand what are you reading, watching....errr Playing, Dragon age?
He's playing Dragon Age along with 3 million others. They all belong to some neo-hippy group called "good taste".
It's cool though, let those crazies have their epic Bioware games. You're getting a Twilight MMO. You win.
Okidoki! Just one simple question, can you elaborate by what you mean with an Twillight MMO and why you suppose that i would like that MMO?
Hilarious comebacks from you guys, keep em coming:) (I bet my GF would like an Twillight MMO Though)
The combat looks Meh, just as the whole game are. They should just give out there precious story as a book instead, leave gamemaking to them who knows what gameplay are instead.
Coming from a guy who claimed he "loves DFO". If you're visually impaired, my apologies. Speaking of game making, hows Darkfall doing? Hows the illusion of character development in that game? I seen they finally figured out how to put the "buy" button some where visible, that must have been hard.
And what's with the random improper usage of "are"? Whole game are? gameplay are instead?
The combat looks Meh, just as the whole game are. They should just give out there precious story as a book instead, leave gamemaking to them who knows what gameplay are instead.
Coming from a guy who claimed he "loves DFO". If you're visually impaired, my apologies. Speaking of game making, hows Darkfall doing? Hows the illusion of character development in that game? I seen they finally figured out how to put the "buy" button some where visible, that must have been hard.
And what's with the random improper usage of "are"? Whole game are? gameplay are instead?
I`m having an blast thank you very much! I`m glad that you care:)
I think i ARE having some problems with the are:s....Don´t you think?
I think that is is too early to say gameplay is going to be this-or-that. If I may point out, we know almost nothing about gameplay, except you will run around, shoot / hack-and-slash and use abilities. As for graphics (as was pointed out, that melee looks kinda lame), I say that the game is still in developement and lots of videos we see could be from older versions of game
..::All I know is if there is a God, he's laughing his ass off::..
Come to think of it we have seen one negative thing abot swtor combat. One video shows the player killing enemies while their buddies stand all of 5m away and continue chatting among themselves. It's lame in most games, in a story-based game it can totally ruin immersion.
That's why I am on hold.
The primary resources of Bioware are clearly going to cut scenes and single line story telling.
It will cost millions and millions to set the full speech/video interaction with the NPC's for all those levels.
We will see how much the gameplay value (and such "trivial" things like NPC AI and class development) have suffered from it.
For the same money ToR could be as dead as TR in one month time if things would happen like the video mentioned.
Also: the resemblance between the 2 games is more than stunning in those videos.
There is only so much you can do with a single SF suit isn't it ?
Want a real mmorpg? Play WOW with experience turned off mode and be Pve_Pvp King at any level without a rat race.
The combat looks Meh, just as the whole game are. They should just give out there precious story as a book instead, leave gamemaking to them who knows what gameplay are instead.
Coming from a guy who claimed he "loves DFO". If you're visually impaired, my apologies. Speaking of game making, hows Darkfall doing? Hows the illusion of character development in that game? I seen they finally figured out how to put the "buy" button some where visible, that must have been hard.
And what's with the random improper usage of "are"? Whole game are? gameplay are instead?
I`m having an blast thank you very much! I`m glad that you care:)
I think i ARE having some problems with the are:s....Don´t you think?
Are you asking me a question I already asked you?
Glad you're having a blast, but here's what you should do. Leave this board, please. You don't see me coming to DFO forums to let you know how much of a failure Aventurine is, how unproffessional they are, or how mouse spamming combat is not good gameplay, or how it looks like a copy paste of Morrowind with a fee that only appeals to people lacking positive characteristics.
Really? They are made by a guy in a motionsuit, they should look as realistic as possible???
I have only seen short movies myself so I don't know but I don't see how you could fail with animations when you have a motionsuit, AoC had it also and it's animations looks very good.
The combat looks Meh, just as the whole game are. They should just give out there precious story as a book instead, leave gamemaking to them who knows what gameplay are instead.
Coming from a guy who claimed he "loves DFO". If you're visually impaired, my apologies. Speaking of game making, hows Darkfall doing? Hows the illusion of character development in that game? I seen they finally figured out how to put the "buy" button some where visible, that must have been hard.
And what's with the random improper usage of "are"? Whole game are? gameplay are instead?
I`m having an blast thank you very much! I`m glad that you care:)
I think i ARE having some problems with the are:s....Don´t you think?
Are you asking me a question I already asked you?
Glad you're having a blast, but here's what you should do. Leave this board, please. You don't see me coming to DFO forums to let you know how much of a failure Aventurine is, how unproffessional they are, or how mouse spamming combat is not good gameplay, or how it looks like a copy paste of Morrowind with a fee that only appeals to people lacking positive characteristics.
Do you are get me?
I`m sure are! But i`m staying! And even worse for you i guess, i will even try this game when it arrives.
I honestly don't know. For me, the MMO's that worked for me are the SWG, EQ, WoW and Lotro type games. Lots of people hate them, but I like to take it slower, not constantly have to button smash and think a bit about what skill to use when.
Part of that is that attempts at twitch gaming have not been entirely successful. The problem is both that server lag interferes with position based combat (if the enemy lags and you are hitting air on the server while hitting meat on your display, then that quickly gets old) and because most Twitch gameplay in MMO's is of a hopelessly outdated variety. AI just ain't good enough.
When I look at the combat video, what I see is rapidly renewing skills, but still on a timer, and I don't really see any complex strategies shaping up. I in fact don't see to much difference with a Cryptic game. Not many play those type of games for the 1+ years it would take a behemot like swtor to break even.
Combat in a MMO must have long term appeal beyond the 1 month a single player game can hope to last and it must appeal to an audience that can afford to pay month after month. Am I alone in seeing a correlation in twitch fans and f2p fans?
It is early days and the combat probably will be tweaked. Maybe all skills will be on different cooldown and they are just doing this to test and see which are overpowered and which are not so they can time them. Maybe there are other considerations to limit this game becoming "spam the most powerful attack" f2p of the month.
I will probably buy the game, but longterm. I got my doubts. I loved Dragon Age Origin and Mass Effect after all, but I also played them for about a month and then was done. Replay purely for the story, not because the combat was so much fun (far to easy for my tastes, even with rebalance mods).
To me Fallen Earth failed most recently in the combat fun department. A "FPS" it ended up being crawling through a far to long maze, shooting enemy after enemy in the head. No more thinking needed then bringing enough ammo along. Even crafting ammo while walking just so you wouldn't run out. Whoopee! Didn't even make it past the free trial. I got a brain, let me use it.
Come to think of it we have seen one negative thing abot swtor combat. One video shows the player killing enemies while their buddies stand all of 5m away and continue chatting among themselves. It's lame in most games, in a story-based game it can totally ruin immersion.
That's why I am on hold.
The primary resources of Bioware are clearly going to cut scenes and single line story telling.
It will cost millions and millions to set the full speech/video interaction with the NPC's for all those levels.
We will see how much the gameplay value (and such "trivial" things like NPC AI and class development) have suffered from it.
For the same money ToR could be as dead as TR in one month time if things would happen like the video mentioned.
Also: the resemblance between the 2 games is more than stunning in those videos.
There is only so much you can do with a single SF suit isn't it ?
You are aware that bioware has always paid attention to detail in every single game? I feel like you're pulling a lot of this out of your ass.
Comments
Just an FYI .
Ivan Sidorenko, Soviet sniper during WW2, makes that guy look like a rank amateur.
Ivan had 542 confirmed kills, 781 if also including unconfirmed.
But yes, as you were saying, as a general thing, what a good sniper shoots at a good sniper kills.
Alltern8 Blog | Star Wars Space Combat and The Old Republic | Cryptic Studios - A Pre Post-Mortem | Klingon Preview, STO's Monster Play
I myself was rather dissapointed with the gameplay once I saw videos. I mean, it truly is the EQ2 type skill bar that every mmo has been cloning lately. It will be a little nicer to play then slowly getting more burnt out of mmos lately being that everyone is an EQ2 clone because SWTOR has a different UI (Many EQ2 clones have almost the exact same looking UI at this point now, its quite sad) and also seems a little more fluid/fast paced. Plus at least its not wizards and swords and stuff like most mmos. At least you get to have a glowy sword and wizards that have glowy swords that use the "force" right? Wait, there almost the same thing. Yup, this mmo sux gameplay wise.
MMOs played: Too many
Watch List: FFXIV, CoH:GR, GW2, SWTOR, TERA, Earthrise
Jedi > Wizards.
Longing for Skyrim, The Old Republic and Mass Effect 3
The combat looks Meh, just as the whole game are. They should just give out there precious story as a book instead, leave gamemaking to them who knows what gameplay are instead.
Are you joking? Bioware doesn't know anything about gameplay? Sounds like you're just a WoW fanboy.
looool, i think the one and only MMO i haven`t played is WoW. Where the heck did you pulled that Comeback from??
You on the other hand what are you reading, watching....errr Playing, Dragon age?
Are you joking? Bioware doesn't know anything about gameplay? Sounds like you're just a WoW fanboy.
looool, i think the one and only MMO i haven`t played is WoW. Where the heck did you pulled that Comeback from??
You on the other hand what are you reading, watching....errr Playing, Dragon age?
He's playing Dragon Age along with 3 million others. They all belong to some neo-hippy group called "good taste".
It's cool though, let those crazies have their epic Bioware games. You're getting a Twilight MMO. You win.
Alltern8 Blog | Star Wars Space Combat and The Old Republic | Cryptic Studios - A Pre Post-Mortem | Klingon Preview, STO's Monster Play
if by good taste you mean boring scripted combat....
A member for almost five years, and that is your first post? Just a knee-jerk flame?
BioWare doesn't know anything about multiplayer gameplay. Aside from NWN, I guess.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
I don't think you DO know, Eli. You HOPE you will enjoy it, but unless your standards are very low - you can't KNOW you will.
Have you even been paying attention to the MMOs released in the last couple of years? If you have, then you should know why some of us are very skeptical.
By this time - all MMO players should be from Missouri.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Okidoki! Just one simple question, can you elaborate by what you mean with an Twillight MMO and why you suppose that i would like that MMO?
Hilarious comebacks from you guys, keep em coming:) (I bet my GF would like an Twillight MMO Though)
Coming from a guy who claimed he "loves DFO". If you're visually impaired, my apologies. Speaking of game making, hows Darkfall doing? Hows the illusion of character development in that game? I seen they finally figured out how to put the "buy" button some where visible, that must have been hard.
And what's with the random improper usage of "are"? Whole game are? gameplay are instead?
I`m having an blast thank you very much! I`m glad that you care:)
I think i ARE having some problems with the are:s....Don´t you think?
I think that is is too early to say gameplay is going to be this-or-that. If I may point out, we know almost nothing about gameplay, except you will run around, shoot / hack-and-slash and use abilities. As for graphics (as was pointed out, that melee looks kinda lame), I say that the game is still in developement and lots of videos we see could be from older versions of game
..::All I know is if there is a God, he's laughing his ass off::..
That's why I am on hold.
The primary resources of Bioware are clearly going to cut scenes and single line story telling.
It will cost millions and millions to set the full speech/video interaction with the NPC's for all those levels.
We will see how much the gameplay value (and such "trivial" things like NPC AI and class development) have suffered from it.
For the same money ToR could be as dead as TR in one month time if things would happen like the video mentioned.
Also: the resemblance between the 2 games is more than stunning in those videos.
There is only so much you can do with a single SF suit isn't it ?
Want a real mmorpg? Play WOW with experience turned off mode and be Pve_Pvp King at any level without a rat race.
Are you asking me a question I already asked you?
Glad you're having a blast, but here's what you should do. Leave this board, please. You don't see me coming to DFO forums to let you know how much of a failure Aventurine is, how unproffessional they are, or how mouse spamming combat is not good gameplay, or how it looks like a copy paste of Morrowind with a fee that only appeals to people lacking positive characteristics.
Do you are get me?
Really? They are made by a guy in a motionsuit, they should look as realistic as possible???
I have only seen short movies myself so I don't know but I don't see how you could fail with animations when you have a motionsuit, AoC had it also and it's animations looks very good.
How can you script combat in a videogame? Attempting to do that would be about as pointless as commenting on something you know nothing about.
Oh wait.
I totally are get you man.
Alltern8 Blog | Star Wars Space Combat and The Old Republic | Cryptic Studios - A Pre Post-Mortem | Klingon Preview, STO's Monster Play
Wunderbar, back to PvP I go.
I`m sure are! But i`m staying! And even worse for you i guess, i will even try this game when it arrives.
How can anyone possibly know if the combat is fun or not? The game isnt out yet, no beta, no demo to play no nothing.
I honestly don't know. For me, the MMO's that worked for me are the SWG, EQ, WoW and Lotro type games. Lots of people hate them, but I like to take it slower, not constantly have to button smash and think a bit about what skill to use when.
Part of that is that attempts at twitch gaming have not been entirely successful. The problem is both that server lag interferes with position based combat (if the enemy lags and you are hitting air on the server while hitting meat on your display, then that quickly gets old) and because most Twitch gameplay in MMO's is of a hopelessly outdated variety. AI just ain't good enough.
When I look at the combat video, what I see is rapidly renewing skills, but still on a timer, and I don't really see any complex strategies shaping up. I in fact don't see to much difference with a Cryptic game. Not many play those type of games for the 1+ years it would take a behemot like swtor to break even.
Combat in a MMO must have long term appeal beyond the 1 month a single player game can hope to last and it must appeal to an audience that can afford to pay month after month. Am I alone in seeing a correlation in twitch fans and f2p fans?
It is early days and the combat probably will be tweaked. Maybe all skills will be on different cooldown and they are just doing this to test and see which are overpowered and which are not so they can time them. Maybe there are other considerations to limit this game becoming "spam the most powerful attack" f2p of the month.
I will probably buy the game, but longterm. I got my doubts. I loved Dragon Age Origin and Mass Effect after all, but I also played them for about a month and then was done. Replay purely for the story, not because the combat was so much fun (far to easy for my tastes, even with rebalance mods).
To me Fallen Earth failed most recently in the combat fun department. A "FPS" it ended up being crawling through a far to long maze, shooting enemy after enemy in the head. No more thinking needed then bringing enough ammo along. Even crafting ammo while walking just so you wouldn't run out. Whoopee! Didn't even make it past the free trial. I got a brain, let me use it.
Combat in Mass Effect too easy for you? Try playing Mass Effect 2 (or even ME1) on Insanity and you will get really tough fights.
On topic: I think it is too early to evaluate combat system based on few short videos and tiny bits of info. We have to wait for the testing...
..::All I know is if there is a God, he's laughing his ass off::..
You are aware that bioware has always paid attention to detail in every single game? I feel like you're pulling a lot of this out of your ass.
...
What did Blizzard know of MMOs before it created WoW?