Ummm... Kinda left me speechless for a second.. Are you not aware of how many times Obi Wan Kenobi was hit with a lightsaber only to survive to fight again? I mean in EP II and III he takes what? At least 2 or 3 hits by Count Dooku. Heck, Darth Maul gets his saber cut in 2 by Obi Wan and contiues on.
Continues on to be cut in half by a single swing of Obi-Wan's light sabre.
Also - I doubt if we will be seeing any lightsabres cut in half during battle, either.
In EP II alone count Dooku slashes Obi Wan's leg, then arm before Obi Wan falls and then is rescued by Anakin.
Who had his hand cut off with one swing.
Also, in many many fights, Jedi and Sith go on for quite sometime in saber battles without a killing blow. Jedi hit "half a dozen times" AT LEAST with each other before a killing blow. I know your thinking, yes its not direct hits, but now we are talking symantics of it as apposed to combat.
They were not hits at all. They were parried by the opponent. A combat system involving parries preventing damage would be true to the IP and entertaining. That is what they should have come up with - not this MMORPG-standard combat.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Meh, BioWare knows about multiplayer online gaming too. They've had a few multiplayer titles they were associated with.
They made NWN1 - which was enhanced greatly by the user content players created.
What other multiplayer games did they release?
In any case - their experience in that field is nothing like Blizzard had.
Also - just because Blizzard hit a home run, doesn't mean BioWare will.
But it also doesn't mean they won't (yeah, I know, that post was from Apr 12th )
Tbh, not that much can be said for sure right now about it. Guess we'll just have to wait and see. But I like how the game is slowly progressing, and as someone already said, Bioware has as good a track record as Blizzard - and they certainly have shown more guts/innovation than Blizzard in their choices for new IP's instead of dabbling in the same IP's again and again (Starcraft, Warcraft, Diablo, not 1 new addition in 10 yrs).
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Tbh, not that much can be said for sure right now about it. Guess we'll just have to wait and see. But I like how the game is slowly progressing, and as someone already said, Bioware has as good a track record as Blizzard - and they certainly have shown more guts/innovation than Blizzard in their choices for new IP's instead of dabbling in the same IP's again and again (Starcraft, Warcraft, Diablo, not 1 new addition in 10 yrs).
This isn't a new IP for them, either.
They might release a great game. I hope they do. Their record gives no reason to think they will.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Tbh, not that much can be said for sure right now about it. Guess we'll just have to wait and see. But I like how the game is slowly progressing, and as someone already said, Bioware has as good a track record as Blizzard - and they certainly have shown more guts/innovation than Blizzard in their choices for new IP's instead of dabbling in the same IP's again and again (Starcraft, Warcraft, Diablo, not 1 new addition in 10 yrs).
This isn't a new IP for them, either.
They might release a great game. I hope they do. Their record gives much reason to think they will.
There, fixed your post for ye (as in this is how I see it )
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
That combat video was quite dull. The ranged classes mostly sit there exchanging shots, troopers used those shields, smugglers used the cover (which was really the only part I thought looked kinda neat was the smuggler fighting).
The Jedi combat is highly disappointing. Granted I expected it to be like KOTOR so it's not really any different than that, but I guess I just wish we had a more Jedi Academy style SW MMO, but again, I knew it wasn't going to be like that a long time ago.
The combat looks like your typical MMO, slow paced. Sure it may not have an auto attack, but there's other MMOs that don't and their combat still isn't that fast paced. AoC still probably has the best combat system/animations despite the game well...you know.
The combat isn't bad, it's just nothing new. Some of the things the developers were saying during that vid were totally contradictory to what I was seeing. Hell, I bet the combat won't even be as engaging as Champions.
I dunno, I haven't been following SWTOR that much, but I hope there's some kind of travel powers like in Champions for Jedi. So they can jump/flip/backflip/speed around, otherwise they're really going to be a boring class.
All I can say is I hope the story/quests, crafting, world, social atmosphere, etc are all top notch because the combat is nothing to write home about.
I still think it was a bad idea for Bioware to make an MMO, but, luckily all they have to do is make a massive pop sensation of a game and it'll sell regardless, which it very well could. I mean if MW2 can, why not SWTOR?
Yes there are several jedi flip and jump abilities. I have a PC Gamer magazine where it shows a jedi doing a veritcal strike down on an enemy from above in the air. Also we know for a fact one of the abilities jedi knights and sith warriors have is to practically, somersault or flip into combat in a very impressive jump.
Longing for Skyrim, The Old Republic and Mass Effect 3
Ummm... Kinda left me speechless for a second.. Are you not aware of how many times Obi Wan Kenobi was hit with a lightsaber only to survive to fight again? I mean in EP II and III he takes what? At least 2 or 3 hits by Count Dooku. Heck, Darth Maul gets his saber cut in 2 by Obi Wan and contiues on.
Continues on to be cut in half by a single swing of Obi-Wan's light sabre.
Also - I doubt if we will be seeing any lightsabres cut in half during battle, either.
In EP II alone count Dooku slashes Obi Wan's leg, then arm before Obi Wan falls and then is rescued by Anakin.
Who had his hand cut off with one swing.
Also, in many many fights, Jedi and Sith go on for quite sometime in saber battles without a killing blow. Jedi hit "half a dozen times" AT LEAST with each other before a killing blow. I know your thinking, yes its not direct hits, but now we are talking symantics of it as apposed to combat.
They were not hits at all. They were parried by the opponent. A combat system involving parries preventing damage would be true to the IP and entertaining. That is what they should have come up with - not this MMORPG-standard combat.
I fail to see how your version of MMORPG combat could be entertaining? A series of misses or parries until one of the combatants gets a lucky blow involving no skill? This would make abilities in the game useless unless they increased your parry chance or luck by a certain factor. This could also lead to bugged endless battles because no one can win the RNG battle of one hit kill.
You call is MMORPG-standard combat, I believe its standard because it has been proven to work with how the rest of the game functions with many people playing. Instead of trying to focus on making a new system they should focus on perfecting and smoothing out the current system so that the combat flows and the reactions and correct use of abilities makes a difference.
I will admit I was dissapointed by the way the combat looked in the latest video (except the part with the Bounty Hunter using his jetpack to rush into his opponent, that looked smooth). To clarify i think the combat does look clunky from that videos perspective, it needs to polished and it needs to flow. An example of what I mean by not flowing is the release of Warhammer Online, the combat in that game glitched alot and there were many delays between me using an ability and the game registering the character movements(if at all). To me a good combat system has to be fluid with smooth and natural feeling movements and responses to player input, if this games combat can do that they will have my sub.
I think it looks very MMORPG-standard. Very ordinary.
They had a chance to be true to the IP, and offer something different and faster-paced, but went with the standard 'hit something 6 or 7 times before it drops' combat. Disappointing. It won't feel like Star Wars. It will feel like WoW with SF graphics.
I agree, i think it looks bland and the effects are very bland. I would like to know how my skills blend with my groupmates or if they can effect my group members skills to make skills more effective.
Take a look at these vids and the imagination the dev team has put into them,swtor is looking duller everyday.
There are multiple ways that one can do a workable combat system in an RPG or an MMORPG. The "standard" that most MMO's seem to fall back upon really is just a derivitive of the origional D&D system....
- I have 500 hit points, you have 500 hit points.
- Most of our attacks "hit" each other and do some number of hit points in damage that is significantly less then 500.
- You and I (through ourselves or our party members) can get a certain number of hit points replenished by "healing" during combat.
- Both of us are generaly just "fine" and function at full ability (minus whatever temporary "debuffs" are applied to us on a timer) when we loose hit points...until we reach 0...when we "die".
- Combat generaly devolves to a race to the bottom...to see who can make the other guy goto 0 hit points first.
The above system certainly DOES work. However, it is far from the only system that can be workably applied. Whether or not it "fits" a particular genre is really a matter of personal taste. Personaly I find it rather "cartoonish" and unfun. I don't particularly mind it in genre's that are INTENDED to feel cartoonish...but don't like it in most others. I'm not sure where Star Wars would fall as a genre in regards that point. I AM quite dissappointed that so many MMO's seem to fall back on some iteration of that system regardless of genre.....and would like to see more games try something diffirent.
I think the reason why we see so many games use that sort of system are....
a) The developers don't want to spend much grey matter on designing something new and origional... and simply fall back on (perhaps even sometimes subcomciously) what they are used to from other games.
b) The executives are risk averse and with a big budget at stake, don't want to try anything that hasn't been proven yet. So they demand the developers use a system that they KNOW has already proven itself functional in other games....perhaps with some minor tweak or twist.
While both of the above are understandable....they don't make for very interesting or exciting choices.
NOTE: I don't have alot of depth of information on the actual mechanics of TOR's combat system....so I make no claims or presumptions about the degree to which it actualy follows the aforementioned system.
I think it looks very MMORPG-standard. Very ordinary.
They had a chance to be true to the IP, and offer something different and faster-paced, but went with the standard 'hit something 6 or 7 times before it drops' combat. Disappointing. It won't feel like Star Wars. It will feel like WoW with SF graphics.
I agree, i think it looks bland and the effects are very bland. I would like to know how my skills blend with my groupmates or if they can effect my group members skills to make skills more effective.
Take a look at these vids and the imagination the dev team has put into them,swtor is looking duller everyday.
If you think their skill system is years ahead, you'd be wrong. This is the same guild wars skill system the currently have just with new skills and a free movement system. I feel spell animations look nice in guild wars, but in comparison with the inquisitor lightning animations, I think a lot more goes into just the basic animation of the character in TOR but the animation of the enemies too. You'd also have to keep in mind that conjuring a flying flaming bird just doesn't mesh with the star wars world.
On the same avenue of TOR, not feeling like star wars, I seem to remember seeing that elementalist having to use a number of spells to defeat a single opponent. I don't think we'll be seeing 1 hit kills and loss of limbs in guild wars 2 either, but hey, its that time of year to hold companies to double standards based on your agenda i guess.
I agree, i think it looks bland and the effects are very bland. I would like to know how my skills blend with my groupmates or if they can effect my group members skills to make skills more effective.
Take a look at these vids and the imagination the dev team has put into them,swtor is looking duller everyday.
While impressive, that also looks like nothing out of the ordinary for an MMO, nuking spells, no matter how flashy, are nothing new.
Also, the effects are nice, but not better than the lightning from the Inquisitor, and the animations themselves are not very diverse (of course this is only a small bit of footage for both games).
Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!
It looks fun, but definately seems to be largely true to traditional MMO combat.
I'm a little disappointed that we're not going to see sabers lopping off limbs and such, but I understand why it's necessary for game balance to stretch combat out a little. The SW universe does have a credible explanation for it. (Cortosis)
Originally posted by safety Originally posted by Drachasor
Originally posted by maskedweasel
Originally posted by Drachasor
Originally posted by Hyanmen
Originally posted by Vagrant_Zero
To be fair WoW at launch had laughably bad class balance. My Retribution Paladin was a joke for nearly the first 3 years. Then all of a sudden it became a demigod that could 2 shot everybody. Those were interesting times.
It's too bad that while Blizzard could get away with it, Bioware doesn't have such luxury. If classes aren't balanced everyone goes back to we-know-which-game. People do accept imperfect game balance. Honestly the hard core PvPers are far, far from the majority of the gaming population. Also, Bioware has a small advantage in that the game is being designed with PvP balance in mind. WoW wasn't and its class balance is achieved in spite of PvE to PvP disparities that are quite large. That should help them make up the shortfall a bit. Anyhow, there's reason for optimism. I plan on buying ToR at this time, though I'll revisit that decision a month or two before release when we know a lot more. I don't think imperfect game balance flies anymore honestly. Two good examples would be WAR and CO. WAR became frightfully unbalances at around Tier 2 with ironbreakers doing immense amounts of AOE damage. On CO the melee characters became worthless in comparison to ranged combat... though that was mainly due to a faulty combat mechanic but it increased the difficulty to play melee characters 10 fold. Name one game where the only real problem is/was combat balance and I'll buy your argument. Star Wars Galaxies
To be fair WoW at launch had laughably bad class balance. My Retribution Paladin was a joke for nearly the first 3 years.
Then all of a sudden it became a demigod that could 2 shot everybody. Those were interesting times.
It's too bad that while Blizzard could get away with it, Bioware doesn't have such luxury. If classes aren't balanced everyone goes back to we-know-which-game.
People do accept imperfect game balance. Honestly the hard core PvPers are far, far from the majority of the gaming population.
Also, Bioware has a small advantage in that the game is being designed with PvP balance in mind. WoW wasn't and its class balance is achieved in spite of PvE to PvP disparities that are quite large. That should help them make up the shortfall a bit.
Anyhow, there's reason for optimism. I plan on buying ToR at this time, though I'll revisit that decision a month or two before release when we know a lot more.
I don't think imperfect game balance flies anymore honestly. Two good examples would be WAR and CO. WAR became frightfully unbalances at around Tier 2 with ironbreakers doing immense amounts of AOE damage. On CO the melee characters became worthless in comparison to ranged combat... though that was mainly due to a faulty combat mechanic but it increased the difficulty to play melee characters 10 fold.
Name one game where the only real problem is/was combat balance and I'll buy your argument.
Originally posted by safety Originally posted by Vagrant_Zero
Originally posted by safety
Originally posted by Drachasor
Originally posted by maskedweasel
Originally posted by Drachasor
Originally posted by Hyanmen
Originally posted by Vagrant_Zero
To be fair WoW at launch had laughably bad class balance. My Retribution Paladin was a joke for nearly the first 3 years. Then all of a sudden it became a demigod that could 2 shot everybody. Those were interesting times.
It's too bad that while Blizzard could get away with it, Bioware doesn't have such luxury. If classes aren't balanced everyone goes back to we-know-which-game.
People do accept imperfect game balance. Honestly the hard core PvPers are far, far from the majority of the gaming population. Also, Bioware has a small advantage in that the game is being designed with PvP balance in mind. WoW wasn't and its class balance is achieved in spite of PvE to PvP disparities that are quite large. That should help them make up the shortfall a bit. Anyhow, there's reason for optimism. I plan on buying ToR at this time, though I'll revisit that decision a month or two before release when we know a lot more.
I don't think imperfect game balance flies anymore honestly. Two good examples would be WAR and CO. WAR became frightfully unbalances at around Tier 2 with ironbreakers doing immense amounts of AOE damage. On CO the melee characters became worthless in comparison to ranged combat... though that was mainly due to a faulty combat mechanic but it increased the difficulty to play melee characters 10 fold.
Name one game where the only real problem is/was combat balance and I'll buy your argument.
Star Wars Galaxies
Laugh. SWG was a complete and utter mess. Yeah, because of combat imbalance.
I don't even think we've even seen enough on Combat or really learned about the system enough to make any kind of judgement. So far with the info out right now, you would be just as well off trying to make a call on combat "fun level" off a screenshot.
It looks fun, but definately seems to be largely true to traditional MMO combat.
I'm a little disappointed that we're not going to see sabers lopping off limbs and such, but I understand why it's necessary for game balance to stretch combat out a little.
Explain it to me.
The SW universe does have a credible explanation for it. (Cortosis)
?
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
The combat looks Meh, just as the whole game are. They should just give out there precious story as a book instead, leave gamemaking to them who knows what gameplay are instead.
I`m sure are! But i`m staying! And even worse for you i guess, i will even try this game when it arrives.
Why?.... If you think a game is as bad as you think TOR is, why would you purchase it?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
It looks fun, but definately seems to be largely true to traditional MMO combat.
I'm a little disappointed that we're not going to see sabers lopping off limbs and such, but I understand why it's necessary for game balance to stretch combat out a little.
Explain it to me.
The SW universe does have a credible explanation for it. (Cortosis)
?
No.. As it's self explanatory.
How about instead, explain to us how an RPG system fits into what you're asking for? What's the point in building up random skills and abilities as well as stats (strengths and weaknesses), if you're going to be one shotted or decapitated as soon as you enter a fight? It makes no sense what so ever for combat like that to be in an RPG.
Besides the animations seem to take care of your concern as many blows seem to collide (sabers) or miss (blasters). Did you actually watch the video?
As for the OP, to me what I saw looked interesting (and Star-warsy), so I guess it looks like it may be fun. Of course it's hard to say anything definitive without actually playing it.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
It looks fun, but definately seems to be largely true to traditional MMO combat.
I'm a little disappointed that we're not going to see sabers lopping off limbs and such, but I understand why it's necessary for game balance to stretch combat out a little.
Explain it to me.
The SW universe does have a credible explanation for it. (Cortosis)
?
Explain why the length of a fight is important from a tactical perspective? In a nutshell, fights that are too short lack depth. Of course, the reverse is also true: fights that are too long lack urgency. As in all things, each players sweet spot between the two will be different. The ideal (for me) is a situation whereby both players have the ability to use, block and counter a few moves before the combat is won.
In Star Wars lore, Cortosis is a mineral that can be refined into a fibrous substance usable in the construction of lightsaber resistant armour and weaponry. As it's already present in both the KOTOR and Skywalker timelines, it's a plausible explanation for players being able to withstand multiple hits.
That said, despite it being plausible I would still have preferred the combat to be more based on avoidance than mitigation. Instead of seeing a Jedi absorb 9 saber hits then die on the 10th when their health bar runs out, I'd have preferred to see them dodge/parry 9 saber hits then die on the 10th when their stamina bar tuns out. Sadly, that doesn't appear to be the way that Bioware is heading.
The combat looks Meh, just as the whole game are. They should just give out there precious story as a book instead, leave gamemaking to them who knows what gameplay are instead.
I`m sure are! But i`m staying! And even worse for you i guess, i will even try this game when it arrives.
Why?.... If you think a game is as bad as you think TOR is, why would you purchase it?
In the same way that almost all of us would go buy a ticket to see a new Star Wars film even if we knew it was scripted and directed by George Lucas.
It looks fun, but definately seems to be largely true to traditional MMO combat.
I'm a little disappointed that we're not going to see sabers lopping off limbs and such, but I understand why it's necessary for game balance to stretch combat out a little.
Explain it to me.
The SW universe does have a credible explanation for it. (Cortosis)
?
Explain why the length of a fight is important from a tactical perspective? In a nutshell, fights that are too short lack depth. Of course, the reverse is also true: fights that are too long lack urgency. As in all things, each players sweet spot between the two will be different. The ideal (for me) is a situation whereby both players have the ability to use, block and counter a few moves before the combat is won.
In Star Wars lore, Cortosis is a mineral that can be refined into a fibrous substance usable in the construction of lightsaber resistant armour and weaponry. As it's already present in both the KOTOR and Skywalker timelines, it's a plausible explanation for players being able to withstand multiple hits.
It sounds suspiciously like Kryptonite to me. No mention of it in any of the movies, I think.
That said, despite it being plausible I would still have preferred the combat to be more based on avoidance than mitigation. Instead of seeing a Jedi absorb 9 saber hits then die on the 10th when their health bar runs out, I'd have preferred to see them dodge/parry 9 saber hits then die on the 10th when their stamina bar tuns out. Sadly, that doesn't appear to be the way that Bioware is heading.
Now - THAT is just the sort of combat that would fit great with the IP.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Explain why the length of a fight is important from a tactical perspective? In a nutshell, fights that are too short lack depth. Of course, the reverse is also true: fights that are too long lack urgency. As in all things, each players sweet spot between the two will be different. The ideal (for me) is a situation whereby both players have the ability to use, block and counter a few moves before the combat is won.
In Star Wars lore, Cortosis is a mineral that can be refined into a fibrous substance usable in the construction of lightsaber resistant armour and weaponry. As it's already present in both the KOTOR and Skywalker timelines, it's a plausible explanation for players being able to withstand multiple hits.
It sounds suspiciously like Kryptonite to me. No mention of it in any of the movies, I think.
That said, despite it being plausible I would still have preferred the combat to be more based on avoidance than mitigation. Instead of seeing a Jedi absorb 9 saber hits then die on the 10th when their health bar runs out, I'd have preferred to see them dodge/parry 9 saber hits then die on the 10th when their stamina bar tuns out. Sadly, that doesn't appear to be the way that Bioware is heading.
Now - THAT is just the sort of combat that would fit great with the IP.
That's true, Cortosis wasn't mentioned in any of the movies. It's part of the extended universe and was present in the KOTOR timeline. I'm sure you'll remember weapons such as Vibroblades which were capable of parrying a lightsaber. Here are a couple of Star Wars wiki links to Cortosis and Cortosis-Weave as it applies to weapons and armour in the Star Wars IP.
Comments
They were not hits at all. They were parried by the opponent. A combat system involving parries preventing damage would be true to the IP and entertaining. That is what they should have come up with - not this MMORPG-standard combat.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
But it also doesn't mean they won't (yeah, I know, that post was from Apr 12th
)
Tbh, not that much can be said for sure right now about it. Guess we'll just have to wait and see. But I like how the game is slowly progressing, and as someone already said, Bioware has as good a track record as Blizzard - and they certainly have shown more guts/innovation than Blizzard in their choices for new IP's instead of dabbling in the same IP's again and again (Starcraft, Warcraft, Diablo, not 1 new addition in 10 yrs).
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
This isn't a new IP for them, either.
They might release a great game. I hope they do. Their record gives no reason to think they will.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
There, fixed your post for ye
(as in this is how I see it 
)
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Yes there are several jedi flip and jump abilities. I have a PC Gamer magazine where it shows a jedi doing a veritcal strike down on an enemy from above in the air. Also we know for a fact one of the abilities jedi knights and sith warriors have is to practically, somersault or flip into combat in a very impressive jump.
Longing for Skyrim, The Old Republic and Mass Effect 3
I fail to see how your version of MMORPG combat could be entertaining? A series of misses or parries until one of the combatants gets a lucky blow involving no skill? This would make abilities in the game useless unless they increased your parry chance or luck by a certain factor. This could also lead to bugged endless battles because no one can win the RNG battle of one hit kill.
You call is MMORPG-standard combat, I believe its standard because it has been proven to work with how the rest of the game functions with many people playing. Instead of trying to focus on making a new system they should focus on perfecting and smoothing out the current system so that the combat flows and the reactions and correct use of abilities makes a difference.
I will admit I was dissapointed by the way the combat looked in the latest video (except the part with the Bounty Hunter using his jetpack to rush into his opponent, that looked smooth). To clarify i think the combat does look clunky from that videos perspective, it needs to polished and it needs to flow. An example of what I mean by not flowing is the release of Warhammer Online, the combat in that game glitched alot and there were many delays between me using an ability and the game registering the character movements(if at all). To me a good combat system has to be fluid with smooth and natural feeling movements and responses to player input, if this games combat can do that they will have my sub.
Are your serious? That game had many issues besides class balance.
Broken professions
Bugs
Lag
Lack of content
Poor customer service
Crashing to desktop
Character getting stuck
Breaking Star Wars canon
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
I agree, i think it looks bland and the effects are very bland. I would like to know how my skills blend with my groupmates or if they can effect my group members skills to make skills more effective.
Take a look at these vids and the imagination the dev team has put into them,swtor is looking duller everyday.
http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/473/view/news/read/16839/Guild-Wars-2-Elementalist-Spell-Videos.html
Now read what the dev are doing with skills,swtor seems years behind and they are calling their game next gen,lol
http://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/combat/part-one/
Furious Fighters
http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/13trindx.htm
There are multiple ways that one can do a workable combat system in an RPG or an MMORPG. The "standard" that most MMO's seem to fall back upon really is just a derivitive of the origional D&D system....
- I have 500 hit points, you have 500 hit points.
- Most of our attacks "hit" each other and do some number of hit points in damage that is significantly less then 500.
- You and I (through ourselves or our party members) can get a certain number of hit points replenished by "healing" during combat.
- Both of us are generaly just "fine" and function at full ability (minus whatever temporary "debuffs" are applied to us on a timer) when we loose hit points...until we reach 0...when we "die".
- Combat generaly devolves to a race to the bottom...to see who can make the other guy goto 0 hit points first.
The above system certainly DOES work. However, it is far from the only system that can be workably applied. Whether or not it "fits" a particular genre is really a matter of personal taste. Personaly I find it rather "cartoonish" and unfun. I don't particularly mind it in genre's that are INTENDED to feel cartoonish...but don't like it in most others. I'm not sure where Star Wars would fall as a genre in regards that point. I AM quite dissappointed that so many MMO's seem to fall back on some iteration of that system regardless of genre.....and would like to see more games try something diffirent.
I think the reason why we see so many games use that sort of system are....
a) The developers don't want to spend much grey matter on designing something new and origional... and simply fall back on (perhaps even sometimes subcomciously) what they are used to from other games.
b) The executives are risk averse and with a big budget at stake, don't want to try anything that hasn't been proven yet. So they demand the developers use a system that they KNOW has already proven itself functional in other games....perhaps with some minor tweak or twist.
While both of the above are understandable....they don't make for very interesting or exciting choices.
NOTE: I don't have alot of depth of information on the actual mechanics of TOR's combat system....so I make no claims or presumptions about the degree to which it actualy follows the aforementioned system.
If you think their skill system is years ahead, you'd be wrong. This is the same guild wars skill system the currently have just with new skills and a free movement system. I feel spell animations look nice in guild wars, but in comparison with the inquisitor lightning animations, I think a lot more goes into just the basic animation of the character in TOR but the animation of the enemies too. You'd also have to keep in mind that conjuring a flying flaming bird just doesn't mesh with the star wars world.
On the same avenue of TOR, not feeling like star wars, I seem to remember seeing that elementalist having to use a number of spells to defeat a single opponent. I don't think we'll be seeing 1 hit kills and loss of limbs in guild wars 2 either, but hey, its that time of year to hold companies to double standards based on your agenda i guess.
While impressive, that also looks like nothing out of the ordinary for an MMO, nuking spells, no matter how flashy, are nothing new.
Also, the effects are nice, but not better than the lightning from the Inquisitor, and the animations themselves are not very diverse (of course this is only a small bit of footage for both games).
Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!
In answer to the OP. Yes.
Say hello, To the things you've left behind. They are more a part of your life now that you can't touch them.
Looks very nice,i like fast combat too,feel very much star wars!
It looks fun, but definately seems to be largely true to traditional MMO combat.
I'm a little disappointed that we're not going to see sabers lopping off limbs and such, but I understand why it's necessary for game balance to stretch combat out a little. The SW universe does have a credible explanation for it. (Cortosis)
People do accept imperfect game balance. Honestly the hard core PvPers are far, far from the majority of the gaming population.
Also, Bioware has a small advantage in that the game is being designed with PvP balance in mind. WoW wasn't and its class balance is achieved in spite of PvE to PvP disparities that are quite large. That should help them make up the shortfall a bit.
Anyhow, there's reason for optimism. I plan on buying ToR at this time, though I'll revisit that decision a month or two before release when we know a lot more.
I don't think imperfect game balance flies anymore honestly. Two good examples would be WAR and CO. WAR became frightfully unbalances at around Tier 2 with ironbreakers doing immense amounts of AOE damage. On CO the melee characters became worthless in comparison to ranged combat... though that was mainly due to a faulty combat mechanic but it increased the difficulty to play melee characters 10 fold.
Name one game where the only real problem is/was combat balance and I'll buy your argument.
Star Wars Galaxies
Laugh.
SWG was a complete and utter mess.
Alltern8 Blog | Star Wars Space Combat and The Old Republic | Cryptic Studios - A Pre Post-Mortem | Klingon Preview, STO's Monster Play
Yeah, because of combat imbalance.
It's too bad that while Blizzard could get away with it, Bioware doesn't have such luxury. If classes aren't balanced everyone goes back to we-know-which-game.
People do accept imperfect game balance. Honestly the hard core PvPers are far, far from the majority of the gaming population.
Also, Bioware has a small advantage in that the game is being designed with PvP balance in mind. WoW wasn't and its class balance is achieved in spite of PvE to PvP disparities that are quite large. That should help them make up the shortfall a bit.
Anyhow, there's reason for optimism. I plan on buying ToR at this time, though I'll revisit that decision a month or two before release when we know a lot more.
I don't think imperfect game balance flies anymore honestly. Two good examples would be WAR and CO. WAR became frightfully unbalances at around Tier 2 with ironbreakers doing immense amounts of AOE damage. On CO the melee characters became worthless in comparison to ranged combat... though that was mainly due to a faulty combat mechanic but it increased the difficulty to play melee characters 10 fold.
Name one game where the only real problem is/was combat balance and I'll buy your argument.
Star Wars Galaxies
Laugh.
SWG was a complete and utter mess.
Yeah, because of combat imbalance.
Among a host of other things yes.
Alltern8 Blog | Star Wars Space Combat and The Old Republic | Cryptic Studios - A Pre Post-Mortem | Klingon Preview, STO's Monster Play
I don't even think we've even seen enough on Combat or really learned about the system enough to make any kind of judgement. So far with the info out right now, you would be just as well off trying to make a call on combat "fun level" off a screenshot.
?
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Why?.... If you think a game is as bad as you think TOR is, why would you purchase it?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
No.. As it's self explanatory.
How about instead, explain to us how an RPG system fits into what you're asking for? What's the point in building up random skills and abilities as well as stats (strengths and weaknesses), if you're going to be one shotted or decapitated as soon as you enter a fight? It makes no sense what so ever for combat like that to be in an RPG.
Besides the animations seem to take care of your concern as many blows seem to collide (sabers) or miss (blasters). Did you actually watch the video?
As for the OP, to me what I saw looked interesting (and Star-warsy), so I guess it looks like it may be fun. Of course it's hard to say anything definitive without actually playing it.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Explain why the length of a fight is important from a tactical perspective? In a nutshell, fights that are too short lack depth. Of course, the reverse is also true: fights that are too long lack urgency. As in all things, each players sweet spot between the two will be different. The ideal (for me) is a situation whereby both players have the ability to use, block and counter a few moves before the combat is won.
In Star Wars lore, Cortosis is a mineral that can be refined into a fibrous substance usable in the construction of lightsaber resistant armour and weaponry. As it's already present in both the KOTOR and Skywalker timelines, it's a plausible explanation for players being able to withstand multiple hits.
That said, despite it being plausible I would still have preferred the combat to be more based on avoidance than mitigation. Instead of seeing a Jedi absorb 9 saber hits then die on the 10th when their health bar runs out, I'd have preferred to see them dodge/parry 9 saber hits then die on the 10th when their stamina bar tuns out. Sadly, that doesn't appear to be the way that Bioware is heading.
In the same way that almost all of us would go buy a ticket to see a new Star Wars film even if we knew it was scripted and directed by George Lucas.
Now - THAT is just the sort of combat that would fit great with the IP.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
That's true, Cortosis wasn't mentioned in any of the movies. It's part of the extended universe and was present in the KOTOR timeline. I'm sure you'll remember weapons such as Vibroblades which were capable of parrying a lightsaber. Here are a couple of Star Wars wiki links to Cortosis and Cortosis-Weave as it applies to weapons and armour in the Star Wars IP.