The issue isn't being answered in part because providing us with an answer is a low priority.
Really? Can you link to where StarVault stated that? The only official statement I have seen from the Community Manager state that he "understands the situation and the reason why some people feel upset about this" and was going to give us an update the week of 4/10.
The next official word was "Please understand that issues like that have to be discussed and decided on the highest level (aka: the board) and due to the nature of SV being a publicly listed company there are a few legal implications that have to be considered. As much as I would like to address the issue with the community right now I can only ask you to have a bit of patience until management has reached a conclusion that they can make public."
As far as your breakdown. There may be 4 or 5 categories but the folks this effects are not proportionately divided through the categories. My opinion would be that category 4 is the largest of those categories (by far).
At least it seems that you now agree that it seems SV originally planned to charge these people and unilaterally auto-subscribe them. If they didn't, then there would be no reason for any answer other than: "No, we aren't auto-subscribing anyone that never chose a subscription type or payment method."
The simple fact that they seemingly PLANNED to do this is the basis of this thread and a perfect example of why many feel the company has unethical business practices.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Really? Can you link to where StarVault stated that? The only official statement I have seen from the Community Manager state that he "understands the situation and the reason why some people feel upset about this" and was going to give us an update the week of 4/10. They haven't stated that, it's me staing my observation about the situation. If you are in the group of people unaware of the state of the game and unaware of the autosubscribe option, then you will also never see any answer on how they intend to address this.
As far as your breakdown. There may be 4 or 5 categories but the folks this effects are not proportionately divided through the categories. My opinion would be that category 4 is the largest of those categories (by far). What is this assumption based on?
At least it seems that you now agree that it seems SV originally planned to charge these people and unilaterally auto-subscribe them (I only agree so far as the "free month" automatically starts at launch. I don't agree that they intended to automatically charge people). If they didn't, then there would be no reason for any answer other than: "No, we aren't auto-subscribing anyone that never chose a subscription type or payment method." You mean like this "I must clarify that we do not intend to charge people that do not want to play the game." http://www.mortalonline.com/forums/828251-post266.html
The simple fact that they seemingly PLANNED to do this is the basis of this thread and a perfect example of why many feel the company has unethical business practices.
The wonderful irony about this all is, that I noticed Henrik started posting in the forums with really, really long posts about how his feeling were hurt about people calling his team basically incompetent. While I only partly agree that his team is incompetent, the ironic part is that he had spent so much time writing a memoir about his hurt feelings, that he could have easily taken a moment to address the issue about the enabled subscriptions.
There is really no mountain to which SV doesn't try to climb and show how terribly unethical they are. Given every opportunity, plenty of time, and TONS of excuses, there is still no settling answer on this. I work in the financial services industry, and I know you don't need to report *every* thing to investors. Especially something that shows you doing something unethical -- investors basically assume that you are being ethical because otherwise your product is going to have problems in the market. In fact, this is something Henrik should have cleared up immediately so that investors don't think that he is being unethical in his dealings. It's been clear for some time, that this is the behavior they chose and wanted to choose -- that they fully intend on charging people without notifying them.
So for those people that don't believe it still... after a month of persistently having people ask on the forums with no response and closed threads -- how can you still believe it?
Everybody knows about the ethical background of these guys...don't take it personally Herc ..but the least persons someone could trust about ethical behaviour working in your sector and you call them colleagues.
We still suffer from your guys greed, and becuase other create and build some products of real value (or at least try to do it) you invent some toxic shit and sell it for gold.
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE-------------------------------------------------- $OE - eternal enemy of online gaming -We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
Everybody knows about the ethical background of these guys...don't take it personally Herc ..but the least persons someone could trust about ethical behaviour working in your sector and you call them colleagues.
We still suffer from your guys greed, and becuase other create and build some products of real value (or at least try to do it) you invent some toxic shit and sell it for gold.
I can't argue there... I am on my way out of this industry but the job market isn't exactly great right now. I am in IT so I don't manage products or package anything to sell to unwitting people. I have worked in a hedge fund before I worked here and let me tell you, the amount of unethical behavior I have come into contact with is ridiculous and apalling. I totally agree with you and since I'm far from a financial whiz (I understand some stuff but only so I can do my job and deliver them a product), I guess I was kind of oblivious to the whole charade until after the whole market came crashing down. Then you look back at things you've heard and seen done, and are like "Wow, that is how it happened...".
Needless to say we're a little off topic but I just wanted to say I agree with you, and that I'm working towards leaving the industry as a whole. I still have a moral compass and I don't like being here. I will say though, that making a six figure salary+ comes easily on wall street, so I can see why it's enticing for a lot of people. Thankfully for myself, my skillset is universal and applies to any product, so I can command a high salary basically anywhere I go
Everybody knows about the ethical background of these guys...don't take it personally Herc ..but the least persons someone could trust about ethical behaviour working in your sector and you call them colleagues.
We still suffer from your guys greed, and becuase other create and build some products of real value (or at least try to do it) you invent some toxic shit and sell it for gold.
I can't argue there... I am on my way out of this industry but the job market isn't exactly great right now. I am in IT so I don't manage products or package anything to sell to unwitting people. I have worked in a hedge fund before I worked here and let me tell you, the amount of unethical behavior I have come into contact with is ridiculous and apalling. I totally agree with you and since I'm far from a financial whiz (I understand some stuff but only so I can do my job and deliver them a product), I guess I was kind of oblivious to the whole charade until after the whole market came crashing down. Then you look back at things you've heard and seen done, and are like "Wow, that is how it happened...".
Needless to say we're a little off topic but I just wanted to say I agree with you, and that I'm working towards leaving the industry as a whole. I still have a moral compass and I don't like being here. I will say though, that making a six figure salary+ comes easily on wall street, so I can see why it's enticing for a lot of people. Thankfully for myself, my skillset is universal and applies to any product, so I can command a high salary basically anywhere I go
i can see now that what i said don't apply to your profession directly. I am in IT myself but "have the luck" - if it can be phrased that way - that company produces commodities for the real economy, also been involved just that much to understand the processes but our services as IT division don't have much to do with the products company sells.
Ok agree this has gone off topic..
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE-------------------------------------------------- $OE - eternal enemy of online gaming -We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
Bump... any update since last week? I assume Henrik replied to your query?
Henrik will address this issue publicly as soon as he can. Please understand that issues like that have to be discussed and decided on the highest level (aka: the board) and due to the nature of SV being a publicly listed company there are a few legal implications that have to be considered.
As much as I would like to address the issue with the community right now I can only ask you to have a bit of patience until management has reached a conclusion that they can make public.
The May 6th Interim Report referenced above has come and gone. NO WORD ON THIS ISSUE FROM HENRICK. Now going on 2 months. In that time we have had 2 instances where they answered by simply pointing people to the TOS, when asked for clarification it turned out that THEY DIDN'T KNOW the answer. Since then there have been 3 or 4 additional replies stating that they would get us an answer... well.. as on today.. NOTHING.
Is there any plausible explanation for why it would take so long if they DIDN'T originally plan on ninja subscribing the pre-order folks?
A simple.. "No.. you need to actively choose a subscription type and duration (as stated in the TOS) before you are billed" would put this to rest, and such a message would NOT need any approval from a damn Board if there was never a plan to do this...
Instead we get statements like : Please understand that issues like that have to be discussed and decided on the highest level (aka: the board) and due to the nature of SV being a publicly listed company there are a few legal implications that have to be considered.
How can it not be DECIDED when the transaction occured almost a whole year ago? WTF!? how do you make this decision 10 months later?
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Bump... any update since last week? I assume Henrik replied to your query?
Henrik will address this issue publicly as soon as he can. Please understand that issues like that have to be discussed and decided on the highest level (aka: the board) and due to the nature of SV being a publicly listed company there are a few legal implications that have to be considered.
As much as I would like to address the issue with the community right now I can only ask you to have a bit of patience until management has reached a conclusion that they can make public.
The May 6th Interim Report referenced above has come and gone. NO WORD ON THIS ISSUE FROM HENRICK. Now going on 2 months. In that time we have had 2 instances where they answered by simply pointing people to the TOS, when asked for clarification it turned out that THEY DIDN'T KNOW the answer. Since then there have been 3 or 4 additional replies stating that they would get us an answer... well.. as on today.. NOTHING.
Is there any plausible explanation for why it would take so long if they DIDN'T originally plan on ninja subscribing the pre-order folks?
A simple.. "No.. you need to actively choose a subscription type and duration (as stated in the TOS) before you are billed" would put this to rest, and such a message would NOT need any approval from a damn Board if there was never a plan to do this...
Instead we get statements like : Please understand that issues like that have to be discussed and decided on the highest level (aka: the board) and due to the nature of SV being a publicly listed company there are a few legal implications that have to be considered.
How can it not be DECIDED when the transaction occured almost a whole year ago? WTF!? how do you make this decision 10 months later?
why are you asking here. lol you have a very bad addiction to MO
Maerlyn gave you as clear an answer as he possibly could.
Thanks,
Taza
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See... in SV World.. saying "We have no clue" is an answer to your question and lets them move the post to the Answered Questions area so they can pretend not to see it.
They announce a release date of June 9th but still claim to have no answer regarding who they are going to be billing? ROFL.... How could they not have known who they were billing at the time of transaction which is going to be 11 months before launch.. and the billing will hit 1 year from time of transaction.. almost to the day. Yeah.. lots of folks expect to be billing a monthly charge for a game they bought a YEAR AGO and never subscribed to...
This company is a JOKE... and the punchline is on the way in a few short weeks!
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
There's a very good reason they dont want this issue brought to light.
They have/had every intentiion to charge everyone that ordered.
Revised EULA
"All fees are stated in European "EURO". All fees are prepaid and non-refundable. Upon your acceptance of these terms, we will automatically charge your credit card the Account fee plus any applicable taxes we are required to collect, and you authorize us to do so. Thereafter, on the applicable anniversary, we will charge your credit card the then-current renewal rate plus any applicable taxes we are required to collect, and you authorize us to do so. If we are unable to process your credit card at a renewal period, your Account may be immediately terminated."
By ordering MO you agree to these terms before EVER seeing them.
They have/had every intentiion to charge everyone that reordered.
Revised EULA
"All fees are stated in European "EURO". All fees are prepaid and non-refundable. Upon your acceptance of these terms, we will automatically charge your credit card the Account fee plus any applicable taxes we are required to collect, and you authorize us to do so. Thereafter, on the applicable anniversary, we will charge your credit card the then-current renewal rate plus any applicable taxes we are required to collect, and you authorize us to do so. If we are unable to process your credit card at a renewal period, your Account may be immediately terminated."
By ordering MO you agree to these terms before EVER seeing them.
You "agree" without your knowledge during step 2, but dont get the EULA until step 3!!!
There technically isn't even a provision to cancel billing.
Clickwrap law in US and Canada dictates that if you purchase software with a clickwrap agreement (EULA only visible after purchasing and/or opening the packaging or installing the product), you are entitled to return the product for a full refund if you do not agree to the EULA. I believe it's the same for EU as well, but I'm not positive.
If people do end up getting billed against their will, they do have the law on their side, provided that they don't actually agree to the EULA, a.k.a. play the game.
They have/had every intentiion to charge everyone that reordered.
Revised EULA
"All fees are stated in European "EURO". All fees are prepaid and non-refundable. Upon your acceptance of these terms, we will automatically charge your credit card the Account fee plus any applicable taxes we are required to collect, and you authorize us to do so. Thereafter, on the applicable anniversary, we will charge your credit card the then-current renewal rate plus any applicable taxes we are required to collect, and you authorize us to do so. If we are unable to process your credit card at a renewal period, your Account may be immediately terminated."
By ordering MO you agree to these terms before EVER seeing them.
You "agree" without your knowledge during step 2, but dont get the EULA until step 3!!!
There technically isn't even a provision to cancel billing.
Clickwrap law in US and Canada dictates that if you purchase software with a clickwrap agreement (EULA only visible after purchasing and/or opening the packaging or installing the product), you are entitled to return the product for a full refund if you do not agree to the EULA. I believe it's the same for EU as well, but I'm not positive.
If people do end up getting billed against their will, they do have the law on their side, provided that they don't actually agree to the EULA, a.k.a. play the game.
IT Law is quite useful to know.
Good to know... Also those in the US that purchased with credit card should also have the protection of the Fair Credit Billing Act.
Legality isnt the issue, but rather getting your money back.
Well since most of the pre-order customers never agreed to those terms, they will find a hard time in court when that time rolls along. And I can almost bet you -- it will.
I'd like to thank you guys for the heads up about this. I paid the initial rip-off price for this game a year ago. And yes, it was a rip-off at $65USD for a digital download mmorpg (almost 2 times what any other game would cost). I had read an article about the amazing features, the lush vegitation so dense you could barely get through it and a sky that was unsurpassed. So, I took a chance on it, and it was one of the biggest disappointments I have ever had. The sky was pretty for about 2 minutes, there was no vegitation (let alone the dense vegitation I had read about), and the game was in more of a pre-alpha stage IMO than a closed beta one. Months later I finally gave up completely because just a couple of weeks away from their projected launch all of the systems that mattered to me in the game were still just reprsented by "placeholders" (no real system there). Needless to say afterthe Dark and Light (preorder), Darkfail and this one, I will NEVER pre-order any game again.
Anyway, when I purchased the pre-order I was never given any info regarding any of this. I never agreed to have my account auto-billed nor was I given a subscription fee to agree to. Like I said, I had long since written the game off as vaporware. BTW, for all of the ones that defend SV's actions here by saying things like "yes they can bill you because it is in the EULA" or "If you get billed, it's your own fault because you didn't read the fine print". It's a little hard to read the fine print when it's not there during your original purchase, and it's also illegal to change the EULA and then bill someone without them agreeing to the changes if the change is in regard to the billing process. Now, on the otherhand, if I had logged into the game and the terms had changed (which they are required by law to inform you of by allert during login and forcing you to agree or disagree) and I had agreed to the new terms in the EULA then they have the right to bill.
I would say that MANY of the original purchasers of MO are in the same category as I am. We bought the pre-order, were never informed of how actual subscription would be billed nor at what rate/price the sub would cost. Fortunately for myself, I just happened to see this post and thought I would investigate. Lucky for me I did, because I found that they had me set to auto-renew (without my acceptance of the terms or any hint of a subscription price). All you little fanbois and highschoolers can flame me all you would like, but what this company is getting ready to do to people that bought this hunk of garbage and then realized the huge mistake they made and threw it in the trash is just wrong. I really hope that if these idoits do commit fraud, it bites then in the A*! so hard their tiny balls fall off.
They sold us a half-baked Fail-sauced pizza. * With a side of monthly fee!
There's a very good reason they dont want this issue brought to light.
They have/had every intentiion to charge everyone that ordered.
Revised EULA
"All fees are stated in European "EURO". All fees are prepaid and non-refundable. Upon your acceptance of these terms, we will automatically charge your credit card the Account fee plus any applicable taxes we are required to collect, and you authorize us to do so. Thereafter, on the applicable anniversary, we will charge your credit card the then-current renewal rate plus any applicable taxes we are required to collect, and you authorize us to do so. If we are unable to process your credit card at a renewal period, your Account may be immediately terminated."
By ordering MO you agree to these terms before EVER seeing them.
You "agree" without your knowledge during step 2, but dont get the EULA until step 3!!!
There technically isn't even a provision to cancel billing.
So, they are planning on doing this then? Charging your credit card when you did not even sign up for a subscription? These people are so pathetic and so money hungry it is getting to the point where its getting quite pathetic.
If we are unable to process your credit card at a renewal period, your Account may be immediately terminated.
Meaning that if you maxed out your credit card and they try to charge you, they can terminate you if the CC gets declined?
There's a very good reason they dont want this issue brought to light.
They have/had every intentiion to charge everyone that ordered.
Revised EULA
"All fees are stated in European "EURO". All fees are prepaid and non-refundable. Upon your acceptance of these terms, we will automatically charge your credit card the Account fee plus any applicable taxes we are required to collect, and you authorize us to do so. Thereafter, on the applicable anniversary, we will charge your credit card the then-current renewal rate plus any applicable taxes we are required to collect, and you authorize us to do so. If we are unable to process your credit card at a renewal period, your Account may be immediately terminated."
By ordering MO you agree to these terms before EVER seeing them.
You "agree" without your knowledge during step 2, but dont get the EULA until step 3!!!
There technically isn't even a provision to cancel billing.
So, they are planning on doing this then? Charging your credit card when you did not even sign up for a subscription? These people are so pathetic and so money hungry it is getting to the point where its getting quite pathetic.
If we are unable to process your credit card at a renewal period, your Account may be immediately terminated.
Meaning that if you maxed out your credit card and they try to charge you, they can terminate you if the CC gets declined?
Go ahead I say
Upon your acceptance of these terms So, has anyone accepted these terms yet?
There's a very good reason they dont want this issue brought to light.
They have/had every intentiion to charge everyone that ordered.
Revised EULA
"All fees are stated in European "EURO". All fees are prepaid and non-refundable. Upon your acceptance of these terms, we will automatically charge your credit card the Account fee plus any applicable taxes we are required to collect, and you authorize us to do so. Thereafter, on the applicable anniversary, we will charge your credit card the then-current renewal rate plus any applicable taxes we are required to collect, and you authorize us to do so. If we are unable to process your credit card at a renewal period, your Account may be immediately terminated."
By ordering MO you agree to these terms before EVER seeing them.
You "agree" without your knowledge during step 2, but dont get the EULA until step 3!!!
There technically isn't even a provision to cancel billing.
So, they are planning on doing this then? Charging your credit card when you did not even sign up for a subscription? These people are so pathetic and so money hungry it is getting to the point where its getting quite pathetic.
If we are unable to process your credit card at a renewal period, your Account may be immediately terminated.
Meaning that if you maxed out your credit card and they try to charge you, they can terminate you if the CC gets declined?
Go ahead I say
Upon your acceptance of these terms So, has anyone accepted these terms yet?
Comments
Really? Can you link to where StarVault stated that? The only official statement I have seen from the Community Manager state that he "understands the situation and the reason why some people feel upset about this" and was going to give us an update the week of 4/10.
The next official word was "Please understand that issues like that have to be discussed and decided on the highest level (aka: the board) and due to the nature of SV being a publicly listed company there are a few legal implications that have to be considered. As much as I would like to address the issue with the community right now I can only ask you to have a bit of patience until management has reached a conclusion that they can make public."
As far as your breakdown. There may be 4 or 5 categories but the folks this effects are not proportionately divided through the categories. My opinion would be that category 4 is the largest of those categories (by far).
At least it seems that you now agree that it seems SV originally planned to charge these people and unilaterally auto-subscribe them. If they didn't, then there would be no reason for any answer other than: "No, we aren't auto-subscribing anyone that never chose a subscription type or payment method."
The simple fact that they seemingly PLANNED to do this is the basis of this thread and a perfect example of why many feel the company has unethical business practices.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Does anyone know how much people will be charged for the sub at this point?
The wonderful irony about this all is, that I noticed Henrik started posting in the forums with really, really long posts about how his feeling were hurt about people calling his team basically incompetent. While I only partly agree that his team is incompetent, the ironic part is that he had spent so much time writing a memoir about his hurt feelings, that he could have easily taken a moment to address the issue about the enabled subscriptions.
There is really no mountain to which SV doesn't try to climb and show how terribly unethical they are. Given every opportunity, plenty of time, and TONS of excuses, there is still no settling answer on this. I work in the financial services industry, and I know you don't need to report *every* thing to investors. Especially something that shows you doing something unethical -- investors basically assume that you are being ethical because otherwise your product is going to have problems in the market. In fact, this is something Henrik should have cleared up immediately so that investors don't think that he is being unethical in his dealings. It's been clear for some time, that this is the behavior they chose and wanted to choose -- that they fully intend on charging people without notifying them.
So for those people that don't believe it still... after a month of persistently having people ask on the forums with no response and closed threads -- how can you still believe it?
Everybody knows about the ethical background of these guys...don't take it personally Herc ..but the least persons someone could trust about ethical behaviour working in your sector and you call them colleagues.
We still suffer from your guys greed, and becuase other create and build some products of real value (or at least try to do it) you invent some toxic shit and sell it for gold.
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE--------------------------------------------------
$OE - eternal enemy of online gaming
-We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
I can't argue there... I am on my way out of this industry but the job market isn't exactly great right now. I am in IT so I don't manage products or package anything to sell to unwitting people. I have worked in a hedge fund before I worked here and let me tell you, the amount of unethical behavior I have come into contact with is ridiculous and apalling. I totally agree with you and since I'm far from a financial whiz (I understand some stuff but only so I can do my job and deliver them a product), I guess I was kind of oblivious to the whole charade until after the whole market came crashing down. Then you look back at things you've heard and seen done, and are like "Wow, that is how it happened...".
Needless to say we're a little off topic but I just wanted to say I agree with you, and that I'm working towards leaving the industry as a whole. I still have a moral compass and I don't like being here. I will say though, that making a six figure salary+ comes easily on wall street, so I can see why it's enticing for a lot of people. Thankfully for myself, my skillset is universal and applies to any product, so I can command a high salary basically anywhere I go
i can see now that what i said don't apply to your profession directly. I am in IT myself but "have the luck" - if it can be phrased that way - that company produces commodities for the real economy, also been involved just that much to understand the processes but our services as IT division don't have much to do with the products company sells.
Ok agree this has gone off topic..
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE--------------------------------------------------
$OE - eternal enemy of online gaming
-We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
UPDATE:
The May 6th Interim Report referenced above has come and gone. NO WORD ON THIS ISSUE FROM HENRICK. Now going on 2 months. In that time we have had 2 instances where they answered by simply pointing people to the TOS, when asked for clarification it turned out that THEY DIDN'T KNOW the answer. Since then there have been 3 or 4 additional replies stating that they would get us an answer... well.. as on today.. NOTHING.
Is there any plausible explanation for why it would take so long if they DIDN'T originally plan on ninja subscribing the pre-order folks?
A simple.. "No.. you need to actively choose a subscription type and duration (as stated in the TOS) before you are billed" would put this to rest, and such a message would NOT need any approval from a damn Board if there was never a plan to do this...
Instead we get statements like : Please understand that issues like that have to be discussed and decided on the highest level (aka: the board) and due to the nature of SV being a publicly listed company there are a few legal implications that have to be considered.
How can it not be DECIDED when the transaction occured almost a whole year ago? WTF!? how do you make this decision 10 months later?
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
why are you asking here. lol you have a very bad addiction to MO
thanks for the heads up
My blog:
Saved another one!!!
I win!!! LOL@U
Now that the release date is set folks -- watch your calendars -- July 9th you will be rebilled.
They even put a prevision in EULA to do so.
I win!!! LOL@U
Still no update folks -- watch out... you have a bill incoming.
Of course they gave an answer... didn't they? ROFL
#32 (permalink)
Tazaterra vbmenu_register("postmenu_861660", true);
Lictor
Join Date: Feb 2010
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Maerlyn gave you as clear an answer as he possibly could.
Thanks,
Taza
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In order to post past this point you must have read the following threads!
Quote:
Please PM me if you have any issues with reputation related insults.
See... in SV World.. saying "We have no clue" is an answer to your question and lets them move the post to the Answered Questions area so they can pretend not to see it.
They announce a release date of June 9th but still claim to have no answer regarding who they are going to be billing? ROFL.... How could they not have known who they were billing at the time of transaction which is going to be 11 months before launch.. and the billing will hit 1 year from time of transaction.. almost to the day. Yeah.. lots of folks expect to be billing a monthly charge for a game they bought a YEAR AGO and never subscribed to...
This company is a JOKE... and the punchline is on the way in a few short weeks!
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
There's a very good reason they dont want this issue brought to light.
They have/had every intentiion to charge everyone that ordered.
Revised EULA
"All fees are stated in European "EURO". All fees are prepaid and non-refundable. Upon your acceptance of these terms, we will automatically charge your credit card the Account fee plus any applicable taxes we are required to collect, and you authorize us to do so. Thereafter, on the applicable anniversary, we will charge your credit card the then-current renewal rate plus any applicable taxes we are required to collect, and you authorize us to do so. If we are unable to process your credit card at a renewal period, your Account may be immediately terminated."
By ordering MO you agree to these terms before EVER seeing them.
https://account.mortalonline.com/
You "agree" without your knowledge during step 2, but dont get the EULA until step 3!!!
There technically isn't even a provision to cancel billing.
I win!!! LOL@U
Clickwrap law in US and Canada dictates that if you purchase software with a clickwrap agreement (EULA only visible after purchasing and/or opening the packaging or installing the product), you are entitled to return the product for a full refund if you do not agree to the EULA. I believe it's the same for EU as well, but I'm not positive.
If people do end up getting billed against their will, they do have the law on their side, provided that they don't actually agree to the EULA, a.k.a. play the game.
IT Law is quite useful to know.
Good to know... Also those in the US that purchased with credit card should also have the protection of the Fair Credit Billing Act.
Legality isnt the issue, but rather getting your money back.
I win!!! LOL@U
Well since most of the pre-order customers never agreed to those terms, they will find a hard time in court when that time rolls along. And I can almost bet you -- it will.
I'd like to thank you guys for the heads up about this. I paid the initial rip-off price for this game a year ago. And yes, it was a rip-off at $65USD for a digital download mmorpg (almost 2 times what any other game would cost). I had read an article about the amazing features, the lush vegitation so dense you could barely get through it and a sky that was unsurpassed. So, I took a chance on it, and it was one of the biggest disappointments I have ever had. The sky was pretty for about 2 minutes, there was no vegitation (let alone the dense vegitation I had read about), and the game was in more of a pre-alpha stage IMO than a closed beta one. Months later I finally gave up completely because just a couple of weeks away from their projected launch all of the systems that mattered to me in the game were still just reprsented by "placeholders" (no real system there). Needless to say afterthe Dark and Light (preorder), Darkfail and this one, I will NEVER pre-order any game again.
Anyway, when I purchased the pre-order I was never given any info regarding any of this. I never agreed to have my account auto-billed nor was I given a subscription fee to agree to. Like I said, I had long since written the game off as vaporware. BTW, for all of the ones that defend SV's actions here by saying things like "yes they can bill you because it is in the EULA" or "If you get billed, it's your own fault because you didn't read the fine print". It's a little hard to read the fine print when it's not there during your original purchase, and it's also illegal to change the EULA and then bill someone without them agreeing to the changes if the change is in regard to the billing process. Now, on the otherhand, if I had logged into the game and the terms had changed (which they are required by law to inform you of by allert during login and forcing you to agree or disagree) and I had agreed to the new terms in the EULA then they have the right to bill.
I would say that MANY of the original purchasers of MO are in the same category as I am. We bought the pre-order, were never informed of how actual subscription would be billed nor at what rate/price the sub would cost. Fortunately for myself, I just happened to see this post and thought I would investigate. Lucky for me I did, because I found that they had me set to auto-renew (without my acceptance of the terms or any hint of a subscription price). All you little fanbois and highschoolers can flame me all you would like, but what this company is getting ready to do to people that bought this hunk of garbage and then realized the huge mistake they made and threw it in the trash is just wrong. I really hope that if these idoits do commit fraud, it bites then in the A*! so hard their tiny balls fall off.
They sold us a half-baked Fail-sauced pizza.
* With a side of monthly fee!
thanks all for the info, I hadn't realized this about the automatic sub renewal either. I went now asap there and changed it.
So, they are planning on doing this then? Charging your credit card when you did not even sign up for a subscription? These people are so pathetic and so money hungry it is getting to the point where its getting quite pathetic.
If we are unable to process your credit card at a renewal period, your Account may be immediately terminated.
Meaning that if you maxed out your credit card and they try to charge you, they can terminate you if the CC gets declined?
Go ahead I say
Saved another, happy it helped.
I win!!! LOL@U
Upon your acceptance of these terms So, has anyone accepted these terms yet?
Umm... Yes
Everyone that purchased the game has. 
I win!!! LOL@U