your questions got answered by the community, theres nothing wrong in what sv are doing, its the standard for mmo's to sub you anyway.
mmo's are a susciption based business model, trying to say sv are in the wrong is like saying all other p2p mmorpgs are wrong.
Actually you are wrong on many levels. No other game moves payment information from the purchase of a game into the subscription of a game WITHOUT permission and/or notice to the customer. When these people bought the game there was NO subscription page.. no way to cancel said subscription (wasnt for about 9 months after purchase) and the TOS clearly said that to be subscribed you needed to choose a subscription duration and payment method. None of which happened. SV has realized this and how a NEW TOS which says they will subscribe you on purchase... but that was not in effect when the pre-orders were made. Noone is arguing about auto-renewing subscriptions. The issue is ninja-subscribing people who never chose one and putting the honus on someone that quit playing almost a year ago to come back to the new account page and check to see if SV decided to unilaterally subscribe them to a game they quit...
Lastly.. SV has told us that they don't have an answer yet. The last official word from Merlyn was that he was waiting for the board to decide.
PS: The COMMUNITY cannot answer a question like this. This is a question about business practice..telling someone "I think this is what will happen" is not a substitute for an answer from the company. Particularly when that company PROMISED an answer on multiple occasions!
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
your questions got answered by the community, theres nothing wrong in what sv are doing, its the standard for mmo's to sub you anyway.
mmo's are a susciption based business model, trying to say sv are in the wrong is like saying all other p2p mmorpgs are wrong.
Actually you are wrong on many levels. No other game moves payment information from the purchase of a game into the subscription of a game WITHOUT permission and/or notice to the customer. When these people bought the game there was NO subscription page.. no way to cancel said subscription (wasnt for about 9 months after purchase) and the TOS clearly said that to be subscribed you needed to choose a subscription duration and payment method. None of which happened. SV has realized this and how a NEW TOS which says they will subscribe you on purchase... but that was not in effect when the pre-orders were made. Noone is arguing about auto-renewing subscriptions. The issue is ninja-subscribing people who never chose one and putting the honus on someone that quit playing almost a year ago to come back to the new account page and check to see if SV decided to unilaterally subscribe them to a game they quit...
Lastly.. SV has told us that they don't have an answer yet. The last official word from Merlyn was that he was waiting for the board to decide.
maerlyn never said that, if im correct he just said the tos is updated.
also again your not getting the points yourself, mortal online is a game in development from a niche company they allows preorders early to help the games development im sure, and well its to expected that all people who bought the game new or old and are still preordering now get autosubbed even without knowing it because well thats how the business model works and i bought the game and well its to be expected that all people get autosubbed because the tos is subject to change so even if it changes they still agreed to it when buying the game and its not like Tos are meant to be fair, its their game and your buying their product so you agree to their terms even if they are subject to change.
maerlyn never said that, if im correct he just said the tos is updated.
also again your not getting the points yourself, mortal online is a game in development from a niche company they allows preorders early to help the games development im sure, and well its to expected that all people who bought the game new or old and are still preordering now get autosubbed even without knowing it because well thats how the business model works and i bought the game and well its to be expected that all people get autosubbed because the tos is subject to change so even if it changes they still agreed to it when buying the game and its not like Tos are meant to be fair, its their game and your buying their product so you agree to their terms even if they are subject to change.
Once again.. this is wrong on multiple levels:
maerlyn never said that, if im correct he just said the tos is updated.
WRONG here is his post from a month ago saying that "Henrik will addresss the issue" after the board decided.
Quote:Henrik will address this issue publicly as soon as he can. Please understand that issues like that have to be discussed and decided on the highest level (aka: the board) and due to the nature of SV being a publicly listed company there are a few legal implications that have to be considered.
As much as I would like to address the issue with the community right now I can only ask you to have a bit of patience until management has reached a conclusion that they can make public.
In omnibus requiem quaesivi et nusquam inveni nisi in angulo cum libro.
Nothing screams "owned" like the chilly autumn breeze on your buttocks at the priest stone...-Milarepa
its to expected that all people who bought the game new or old and are still preordering now get autosubbed even without knowing it because well thats how the business model works
WRONG. That's NOT how any ethical or legal business model works. You can't autosub people without notifying them.
its not like Tos are meant to be fair, its their game and your buying their product so you agree to their terms even if they are subject to change.
WRONG. Yes, it is their right to update the TOS, but they cannot retroactively apply those changes to people who don't agree to them. This is why you have to click I ACCEPT to login to online games everytime they change something in the TOS. What if they changed the TOS to say the monthly fee was now $1000.. Their new TOS is fine, but it doesn't apply to anyone who didn't agree to it.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
From my understanding most MMO's that support the auto-renew use it as a feature for CC's/etc. It's not automatically turned on and usually not available until you actually sign up for a subscription.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
and why have i never seen this post hmm mybie because its fake
That post is real. . links were provided previously and you can find them on the MO forum still.
if u preorder the game u shoulf freakin like it first no one ever said u had to buy the game did SV walk into ur house and put a gun to ur head and say buy the game... no they did not u bought it of ur own free will and if u read it EVEN SAYS THEY ARE GOING TO CHARGE AFTER THE GAME STARTS!!!!! u simply cancle the sub... witch FYI preordering the game is a type of SUBSCIPTION!!!!!
When I pre-ordered AoC. . and any othe game I decided when to ativate it. My free month started then and I could choose a subsciption payment method.
also someone on this fourm said there was someone named shady thats utter bull ive been on the fourm alot and there simply is not someone... of importance named that (aka the game makers licters or fourm staff... players don't count any 5 year old with an email can make a fourm account and troll a site)
Try doing a search under user name on the MO forum. . not that hard. He is a CS rep.
gomorrah: the question is recurring in this forum, although not in this specific thread.
Anyway, as both Maerlyn and I stated in different threads, the free month will start autmatically as soon as MO goes live. This is something that is mutual for both pre-ordering customers, aswell as for those who bought the game in closed or open beta.
This is an extract from the "terms and conditions", that you actively have to agree to in order to finish your purchase:
"Please note that once you choose a subscription method and interval, and finish registering your account, you will subsequently be automatically charged unless you manually cancel your
subscription."
It's both a matter of technical difficulties and an unanimous management decision that states that the free month will begin the day MO goes live.
If you would choose to cancel your account now, it means that AFTER the free month has ended, we'll end your subscription, and won't make any further withdrawals from your account.
Sincerely,
SV support
____________________________________________
also if ur banned thats ur own fault and the ban might lift after relise also if it isnt they will simply delete ur account and no charge to u.
another thing is ima get banned for this post due to bad manegment allowing trolls to troll this revilotionary game and posting fake info on a realy good game with great develipers to get new players lookin for a good game to not go
It was your info that was "fake"
STOP TROLLING THIS GAME U LOSER TROLLS AND GET OUT OF YOUR MOMS BASEMENT U ARE A BUNCH OF PETHETIC EXCUSES FOR HUMAN BEINGS!!!!!!!!!!!!!
From my understanding most MMO's that support the auto-renew use it as a feature for CC's/etc. It's not automatically turned on and usually not available until you actually sign up for a subscription.
MOST MMOS SIGN U UP FOR THE SUB AFTER PRE ORDER EVEN WOW DID IT!!!!
Wow didn't. . you activated your key when you wanted. and you activly chose a sub and payment method.
I don't understand the people defending this. Every other MMO required me to actually go to the website and activate whatever key (serial, whatever each MMO called it) in order to set up my own sub. Hell, even F2P MMOs do this; you don't get automatic access just by downloading the client.
Assuming and setting up subs for people without telling or notifying them is just wrong. I get that they now have that page setup, but it's pretty shitty for the pre-orders when it didn't exist to now be automatically subbed without a word.
And the quotations (or screenies) of SV's answers that I've seen just reek of deflection to me. It really would not take much for them to just plainly say: "People who pre-ordered before the sub page was active do not auto-register."
I don't understand the people defending this. Every other MMO required me to actually go to the website and activate whatever key (serial, whatever each MMO called it) in order to set up my own sub. Hell, even F2P MMOs do this; you don't get automatic access just by downloading the client.
Assuming and setting up subs for people without telling or notifying them is just wrong. I get that they now have that page setup, but it's pretty shitty for the pre-orders when it didn't exist to now be automatically subbed without a word.
And the quotations (or screenies) of SV's answers that I've seen just reek of deflection to me. It really would not take much for them to just plainly say: "People who pre-ordered before the sub page was active do not auto-register."
It does make you question peoples motives.
A lie which is half a truth is ever the blackest of lies.
From my understanding most MMO's that support the auto-renew use it as a feature for CC's/etc. It's not automatically turned on and usually not available until you actually sign up for a subscription.
MOST MMOS SIGN U UP FOR THE SUB AFTER PRE ORDER EVEN WOW DID IT!!!!
Wow didn't. . you activated your key when you wanted. and you activly chose a sub and payment method.
I feel I should reiterate this, given that some people *cough* are having real trouble understanding what the problem is here. Every MMO I can think of only charges you a monthly fee if you sign onto your account and tell it that you want to subscribe.
Mortal Online does not. It automatically, without asking or even telling the person, signs them up to a monthly subscription if they've pre-ordered. What this means is that people will have pre-ordered the game, decided not to play it, and then a month later suddenly discover that they've been signed up to and charged for a subscription they did not ask for when their next statement comes in. This is not ethical business practice.
If this is still too complicated, I'll try an analogy...
Imagine you buy a magazine in a shop, and without asking you or even telling you that it's doing it, the publisher takes your card details upon purchase and signs you up to a monthly subscription and starts charging you a monthly fee, delivering the magazine to your house. You would be annoyed because you did not ask for the subscription, you just wanted to buy that one magazine. If you had wanted a regular subscription you would have specifically asked for one!
Originally posted by Neoptolemus Originally posted by Aethaeryn
Originally posted by hasaosan
Originally posted by Heretique
From my understanding most MMO's that support the auto-renew use it as a feature for CC's/etc. It's not automatically turned on and usually not available until you actually sign up for a subscription.
MOST MMOS SIGN U UP FOR THE SUB AFTER PRE ORDER EVEN WOW DID IT!!!! Wow didn't. . you activated your key when you wanted. and you activly chose a sub and payment method. I feel I should reiterate this, given that some people *cough* are having real trouble understanding what the problem is here. Every MMO I can think of only charges you a monthly fee if you sign onto your account and tell it that you want to subscribe.
Mortal Online does not. It automatically, without asking or even telling the person, signs them up to a monthly subscription if they've pre-ordered. What this means is that people will have pre-ordered the game, decided not to play it, and then a month later suddenly discover that they've been signed up to and charged for a subscription they did not ask for when their next statement comes in. This is not ethical business practice.
If this is still too complicated, I'll try an analogy...
Imagine you buy a magazine in a shop, and without asking you or even telling you that it's doing it, the publisher takes your card details upon purchase and signs you up to a monthly subscription and starts charging you a monthly fee, delivering the magazine to your house. You would be annoyed because you did not ask for the subscription, you just wanted to buy that one magazine. If you had wanted a regular subscription you would have specifically asked for one!
considering that there are so many posts about the subs renew feature for mortal online, and given the fact that my own experience was that after i had pre-ordered, the subs renew feature was glaringly obvious and displayed on the very first page i saw after my initial sign in, then i can only ask - what is the problem? it's not like we're being subverted into buying something here. it's right in front of you. if you can't read, then you might have the right to complain. but i'm quite sure that anyone signing up for mortal online doesn't suffer from that problem.
admittedly, some people are not able to survive their daily life without complaining about something. so i should perhaps be encouraging them to complain incessentally over and over about something which takes 2 seconds of effort to overcome (perhaps i'm being harsh here, maybe it takes 3 seconds). i don't want to be held responsible for the dispair they have for life when they are not able to slurge their whiney nonsense in any place will give them a certain percentage of attention and response, after all.
How is this even ethical? Sure, SV may say "oh well you had the option to turn it off" but nobody here said "I accept" to a subscriber agreement yet, have they? They pre-ordered a game. They did not SUBSCRIBE to that game.
having read some of the whiney nonsense futher along in this thread, i decided to have a look at the original posts. and here, i can see the source of the whiney nonsense.
it defies any kind of intellect that a person would pre-order a subscription based game and, upon deciding not to play the game any longer, would not check their subscription settings when they cancel their account. in fact, i've just had a look at the account page for mortal online and i can't see any other way of cancelling your account other than selecting the "do not renew" feature.
so...just to put a perspective on this (more for myself than anything), in order to cancel your account, you have no choice but to select the "no not renew" feature.
that's odd. it appeared to me that the OP was suggesting some kind of major conspiracy.
Imagine you buy a magazine in a shop, and without asking you or even telling you that it's doing it, the publisher takes your card details upon purchase and signs you up to a monthly subscription and starts charging you a monthly fee, delivering the magazine to your house. You would be annoyed because you did not ask for the subscription, you just wanted to buy that one magazine. If you had wanted a regular subscription you would have specifically asked for one!
your analogy is flawed. a magazine is not subscription based. a better analogy would be to say "imagine you buy a subscription based mmorpg online which offers a free 30 days of online play. and mentioning it in their terms of service, which you have agreed to read, and also displaying it in a very obvious fashion on the front page for your account settings, the publisher starts charging you a monthly fee, delivering you the service you signed up for. you would only be annoyed if your brain is so tiny that it wouldn't even ruffle your hair if it exploded [1].
How is this even ethical? Sure, SV may say "oh well you had the option to turn it off" but nobody here said "I accept" to a subscriber agreement yet, have they? They pre-ordered a game. They did not SUBSCRIBE to that game.
having read some of the whiney nonsense futher along in this thread, i decided to have a look at the original posts. and here, i can see the source of the whiney nonsense.
it defies any kind of intellect that a person would pre-order a subscription based game and, upon deciding not to play the game any longer, would not check their subscription settings when they cancel their account. in fact, i've just had a look at the account page for mortal online and i can't see any other way of cancelling your account other than selecting the "do not renew" feature.
so...just to put a perspective on this (more for myself than anything), in order to cancel your account, you have no choice but to select the "no not renew" feature.
that's odd. it appeared to me that the OP was suggesting some kind of major conspiracy.
if there is one, i can't find it?
Oscarian
Actually, if you had read what the OP and many others are complaining about, it was not that they could not cancel. It is that when they bought the game, there was no TOS agreement to agree to, no billing side of the site setup, and no way to cancel. Then when the billing side was created, the company never had those people agree to the TOS and accept the agreement. Instead, the company just set everyone to auto-renew that had ever bought the pre-order (many of which had not logged into the game since early in the closed beta for whatever reason). The company has yet to send out any sort of notice that the accounts were set to auto-renew via email to let them know that they would need to go log into the billing system and shut the auto renew off or they would be billed. The "whining" that you are refering to is actually pretty valid if you were in the crowd that this had happened to.
If you bought the game after the TOS was put in and you had agreed to it in order to complete the purchase (ex: open beta, or the latter part of closed beta), or if you bought really early and are still planning on subbing to the game then this is a non-issue for you.
They sold us a half-baked Fail-sauced pizza. * With a side of monthly fee!
considering that there are so many posts about the subs renew feature for mortal online, and given the fact that my own experience was that after i had pre-ordered, the subs renew feature was glaringly obvious and displayed on the very first page i saw after my initial sign in, then i can only ask - what is the problem? it's not like we're being subverted into buying something here. it's right in front of you. if you can't read, then you might have the right to complain. but i'm quite sure that anyone signing up for mortal online doesn't suffer from that problem.
admittedly, some people are not able to survive their daily life without complaining about something. so i should perhaps be encouraging them to complain incessentally over and over about something which takes 2 seconds of effort to overcome (perhaps i'm being harsh here, maybe it takes 3 seconds). i don't want to be held responsible for the dispair they have for life when they are not able to slurge their whiney nonsense in any place will give them a certain percentage of attention and response, after all.
Oscarian
Because a lot. . even a few thousand people preordered before that was available on the account page. It didn't say anything at all. I for one did not ever log into my account page after the first month or so after ordering. They put it up af ter and put everyone on renew. So yeah. . it is a problem.
You should read the history before commenting and calling people out for drama.
Way to stay neutral when reputation system is used as intended ^^
OMG, that was all a joke. I was one of the people who neg-repped the mods, and I can confirm that I am NOT being persecuted.
One guy decided to make a post in Off-Topic that calls a "crusade" against "the forces of evil and tyranny" or something, referring to the forum mods. A bunch of us have a sense of humor and played along.
Before long the mods caught on and started giving US crap in return (posting taunts in the thread, smack-talking in IRC, etc). None of it matters because 1) EVERYONE knows it's all in good fun, and 2) the forum's rep system is gonna be removed at launch anyway.
Please don't be one of those people that nag so much that one of the few 'fun' companies left have to shut up and disappear from the forums.
I'm going to bump this thread in light of the recent efforts on the part of SV.
Several threads have been created on the MO main forums asking for a simple answer to this question, and not only have they been ignored, they are now *immediately deleted*. It is very apparent at this point that the folks who pre-ordered are going to get auto-subscribed whether they want to or not.
I will ask those of you who find this business practice to be deceitful (not to mention illegal) to write your EU commissioner about the problem and state it in your own words. There is enough information throughout this thread to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that what SV is engaging in is illegal and unethical behavior designed to bring them subscription revenue unbeknownst to the folks who abandoned the game many months ago, or those who simply are not paying attention that their credit card is going to get charged.
I'll lay it out in layman's terms again, for all of you. This is not an attempt to troll, this is an attempt to inform and if you find it as a troll then I question your motives as well. NO OTHER COMPANY HAS EVER DONE THIS.
1. Customer preorders Mortal Online due to the notion that SV pushed that there will be a limited release available -- get in now, get in early.
2. Customer does not enter or agree to *any* terms of service regarding billing, recurring billing, or a subscription. It is a purchase of a pre-order box, designed to guarantee a spot in the beta and launch.
3. StarVault changes all pre-order customers to automatically subscribe to the game without informing them, nor them agreeing to the terms of service that stipulate such recurring billing practices. Again -- this is the key folks -- they NEVER agreed to a TOS, and they never agreed to any amendments made to a TOS either. If SV changes the TOS to reflect these terms it is *IRRELEVANT*.
4. All pre-order customers now show their account as being set up to be billed after the first month.
5. All threads and questions about this business practice are immediately deleted from the MO main forums, bans have been issued and it is ignored in IRC and any other form of contact (ie email).
Now all this aside... I will draw your attention to a public advocacy website called "The Consumerist" in a rally against these types of practices. I will be sending them an email shortly myself, and I encourage others who are outraged at this practice to also do the same.
In all earnestness, when did you email/call SV about this issue? I'm guessing you did more than just make threads about it... did you email the CEO, or who? As an SV fanboy I'd like to see this issue put to rest just like you, don't think of this as trolling.
Comments
It was answered in the DELETED thread?
A lie which is half a truth is ever the blackest of lies.
Actually you are wrong on many levels. No other game moves payment information from the purchase of a game into the subscription of a game WITHOUT permission and/or notice to the customer. When these people bought the game there was NO subscription page.. no way to cancel said subscription (wasnt for about 9 months after purchase) and the TOS clearly said that to be subscribed you needed to choose a subscription duration and payment method. None of which happened. SV has realized this and how a NEW TOS which says they will subscribe you on purchase... but that was not in effect when the pre-orders were made. Noone is arguing about auto-renewing subscriptions. The issue is ninja-subscribing people who never chose one and putting the honus on someone that quit playing almost a year ago to come back to the new account page and check to see if SV decided to unilaterally subscribe them to a game they quit...
Lastly.. SV has told us that they don't have an answer yet. The last official word from Merlyn was that he was waiting for the board to decide.
PS: The COMMUNITY cannot answer a question like this. This is a question about business practice..telling someone "I think this is what will happen" is not a substitute for an answer from the company. Particularly when that company PROMISED an answer on multiple occasions!
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
maerlyn never said that, if im correct he just said the tos is updated.
also again your not getting the points yourself, mortal online is a game in development from a niche company they allows preorders early to help the games development im sure, and well its to expected that all people who bought the game new or old and are still preordering now get autosubbed even without knowing it because well thats how the business model works and i bought the game and well its to be expected that all people get autosubbed because the tos is subject to change so even if it changes they still agreed to it when buying the game and its not like Tos are meant to be fair, its their game and your buying their product so you agree to their terms even if they are subject to change.
Once again.. this is wrong on multiple levels:
maerlyn never said that, if im correct he just said the tos is updated.
WRONG here is his post from a month ago saying that "Henrik will addresss the issue" after the board decided.
Maerlyn
Community Manager
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Germany
Age: 30
Rep Power: 22
Quote:Henrik will address this issue publicly as soon as he can. Please understand that issues like that have to be discussed and decided on the highest level (aka: the board) and due to the nature of SV being a publicly listed company there are a few legal implications that have to be considered.
As much as I would like to address the issue with the community right now I can only ask you to have a bit of patience until management has reached a conclusion that they can make public.
__________________
~ Teh law ~ Counselor Program ~
In omnibus requiem quaesivi et nusquam inveni nisi in angulo cum libro.
Nothing screams "owned" like the chilly autumn breeze on your buttocks at the priest stone... -Milarepa
its to expected that all people who bought the game new or old and are still preordering now get autosubbed even without knowing it because well thats how the business model works
WRONG. That's NOT how any ethical or legal business model works. You can't autosub people without notifying them.
its not like Tos are meant to be fair, its their game and your buying their product so you agree to their terms even if they are subject to change.
WRONG. Yes, it is their right to update the TOS, but they cannot retroactively apply those changes to people who don't agree to them. This is why you have to click I ACCEPT to login to online games everytime they change something in the TOS. What if they changed the TOS to say the monthly fee was now $1000.. Their new TOS is fine, but it doesn't apply to anyone who didn't agree to it.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
From my understanding most MMO's that support the auto-renew use it as a feature for CC's/etc. It's not automatically turned on and usually not available until you actually sign up for a subscription.
Seems like some folks have been hitting the Kool-aid a bit too hard.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Wa min God! Se æx on min heafod is!
Wow didn't. . you activated your key when you wanted. and you activly chose a sub and payment method.
Wa min God! Se æx on min heafod is!
this was already covered.
.
Wa min God! Se æx on min heafod is!
I don't understand the people defending this. Every other MMO required me to actually go to the website and activate whatever key (serial, whatever each MMO called it) in order to set up my own sub. Hell, even F2P MMOs do this; you don't get automatic access just by downloading the client.
Assuming and setting up subs for people without telling or notifying them is just wrong. I get that they now have that page setup, but it's pretty shitty for the pre-orders when it didn't exist to now be automatically subbed without a word.
And the quotations (or screenies) of SV's answers that I've seen just reek of deflection to me. It really would not take much for them to just plainly say: "People who pre-ordered before the sub page was active do not auto-register."
It does make you question peoples motives.
A lie which is half a truth is ever the blackest of lies.
I feel I should reiterate this, given that some people *cough* are having real trouble understanding what the problem is here. Every MMO I can think of only charges you a monthly fee if you sign onto your account and tell it that you want to subscribe.
Mortal Online does not. It automatically, without asking or even telling the person, signs them up to a monthly subscription if they've pre-ordered. What this means is that people will have pre-ordered the game, decided not to play it, and then a month later suddenly discover that they've been signed up to and charged for a subscription they did not ask for when their next statement comes in. This is not ethical business practice.
If this is still too complicated, I'll try an analogy...
Imagine you buy a magazine in a shop, and without asking you or even telling you that it's doing it, the publisher takes your card details upon purchase and signs you up to a monthly subscription and starts charging you a monthly fee, delivering the magazine to your house. You would be annoyed because you did not ask for the subscription, you just wanted to buy that one magazine. If you had wanted a regular subscription you would have specifically asked for one!
Wow didn't. . you activated your key when you wanted. and you activly chose a sub and payment method.
I feel I should reiterate this, given that some people *cough* are having real trouble understanding what the problem is here. Every MMO I can think of only charges you a monthly fee if you sign onto your account and tell it that you want to subscribe.
Mortal Online does not. It automatically, without asking or even telling the person, signs them up to a monthly subscription if they've pre-ordered. What this means is that people will have pre-ordered the game, decided not to play it, and then a month later suddenly discover that they've been signed up to and charged for a subscription they did not ask for when their next statement comes in. This is not ethical business practice.
If this is still too complicated, I'll try an analogy...
Imagine you buy a magazine in a shop, and without asking you or even telling you that it's doing it, the publisher takes your card details upon purchase and signs you up to a monthly subscription and starts charging you a monthly fee, delivering the magazine to your house. You would be annoyed because you did not ask for the subscription, you just wanted to buy that one magazine. If you had wanted a regular subscription you would have specifically asked for one!
Well said m8.
considering that there are so many posts about the subs renew feature for mortal online, and given the fact that my own experience was that after i had pre-ordered, the subs renew feature was glaringly obvious and displayed on the very first page i saw after my initial sign in, then i can only ask - what is the problem? it's not like we're being subverted into buying something here. it's right in front of you. if you can't read, then you might have the right to complain. but i'm quite sure that anyone signing up for mortal online doesn't suffer from that problem.
admittedly, some people are not able to survive their daily life without complaining about something. so i should perhaps be encouraging them to complain incessentally over and over about something which takes 2 seconds of effort to overcome (perhaps i'm being harsh here, maybe it takes 3 seconds). i don't want to be held responsible for the dispair they have for life when they are not able to slurge their whiney nonsense in any place will give them a certain percentage of attention and response, after all.
Oscarian
having read some of the whiney nonsense futher along in this thread, i decided to have a look at the original posts. and here, i can see the source of the whiney nonsense.
it defies any kind of intellect that a person would pre-order a subscription based game and, upon deciding not to play the game any longer, would not check their subscription settings when they cancel their account. in fact, i've just had a look at the account page for mortal online and i can't see any other way of cancelling your account other than selecting the "do not renew" feature.
so...just to put a perspective on this (more for myself than anything), in order to cancel your account, you have no choice but to select the "no not renew" feature.
that's odd. it appeared to me that the OP was suggesting some kind of major conspiracy.
if there is one, i can't find it?
Oscarian
your analogy is flawed. a magazine is not subscription based. a better analogy would be to say "imagine you buy a subscription based mmorpg online which offers a free 30 days of online play. and mentioning it in their terms of service, which you have agreed to read, and also displaying it in a very obvious fashion on the front page for your account settings, the publisher starts charging you a monthly fee, delivering you the service you signed up for. you would only be annoyed if your brain is so tiny that it wouldn't even ruffle your hair if it exploded [1].
although, technically this isn't an analogy.
Oscarian
[1] Kenny Everett obref.
Actually, if you had read what the OP and many others are complaining about, it was not that they could not cancel. It is that when they bought the game, there was no TOS agreement to agree to, no billing side of the site setup, and no way to cancel. Then when the billing side was created, the company never had those people agree to the TOS and accept the agreement. Instead, the company just set everyone to auto-renew that had ever bought the pre-order (many of which had not logged into the game since early in the closed beta for whatever reason). The company has yet to send out any sort of notice that the accounts were set to auto-renew via email to let them know that they would need to go log into the billing system and shut the auto renew off or they would be billed. The "whining" that you are refering to is actually pretty valid if you were in the crowd that this had happened to.
If you bought the game after the TOS was put in and you had agreed to it in order to complete the purchase (ex: open beta, or the latter part of closed beta), or if you bought really early and are still planning on subbing to the game then this is a non-issue for you.
They sold us a half-baked Fail-sauced pizza.
* With a side of monthly fee!
Because a lot. . even a few thousand people preordered before that was available on the account page. It didn't say anything at all. I for one did not ever log into my account page after the first month or so after ordering. They put it up af ter and put everyone on renew. So yeah. . it is a problem.
You should read the history before commenting and calling people out for drama.
Wa min God! Se æx on min heafod is!
ah, i see. in that case i can only say, i stand corrected. and i apologise for my whiney nonsense.
Oscarian
Way to stay neutral when reputation system is used as intended ^^
OMG, that was all a joke. I was one of the people who neg-repped the mods, and I can confirm that I am NOT being persecuted.
One guy decided to make a post in Off-Topic that calls a "crusade" against "the forces of evil and tyranny" or something, referring to the forum mods. A bunch of us have a sense of humor and played along.
Before long the mods caught on and started giving US crap in return (posting taunts in the thread, smack-talking in IRC, etc). None of it matters because 1) EVERYONE knows it's all in good fun, and 2) the forum's rep system is gonna be removed at launch anyway.
Please don't be one of those people that nag so much that one of the few 'fun' companies left have to shut up and disappear from the forums.
Ah, fair enough. Thou I do think Sine took it personally
heheh, even better if we make a mod cry
I'm going to bump this thread in light of the recent efforts on the part of SV.
Several threads have been created on the MO main forums asking for a simple answer to this question, and not only have they been ignored, they are now *immediately deleted*. It is very apparent at this point that the folks who pre-ordered are going to get auto-subscribed whether they want to or not.
I will ask those of you who find this business practice to be deceitful (not to mention illegal) to write your EU commissioner about the problem and state it in your own words. There is enough information throughout this thread to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that what SV is engaging in is illegal and unethical behavior designed to bring them subscription revenue unbeknownst to the folks who abandoned the game many months ago, or those who simply are not paying attention that their credit card is going to get charged.
I'll lay it out in layman's terms again, for all of you. This is not an attempt to troll, this is an attempt to inform and if you find it as a troll then I question your motives as well. NO OTHER COMPANY HAS EVER DONE THIS.
1. Customer preorders Mortal Online due to the notion that SV pushed that there will be a limited release available -- get in now, get in early.
2. Customer does not enter or agree to *any* terms of service regarding billing, recurring billing, or a subscription. It is a purchase of a pre-order box, designed to guarantee a spot in the beta and launch.
3. StarVault changes all pre-order customers to automatically subscribe to the game without informing them, nor them agreeing to the terms of service that stipulate such recurring billing practices. Again -- this is the key folks -- they NEVER agreed to a TOS, and they never agreed to any amendments made to a TOS either. If SV changes the TOS to reflect these terms it is *IRRELEVANT*.
4. All pre-order customers now show their account as being set up to be billed after the first month.
5. All threads and questions about this business practice are immediately deleted from the MO main forums, bans have been issued and it is ignored in IRC and any other form of contact (ie email).
Now all this aside... I will draw your attention to a public advocacy website called "The Consumerist" in a rally against these types of practices. I will be sending them an email shortly myself, and I encourage others who are outraged at this practice to also do the same.
tips@consumerist.com -- Mail here
Subject: Mortal Online Recurring Billing...
In all earnestness, when did you email/call SV about this issue? I'm guessing you did more than just make threads about it... did you email the CEO, or who? As an SV fanboy I'd like to see this issue put to rest just like you, don't think of this as trolling.