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Lifers Starting to Bail!
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I think you're dreaming. The only reason CO hasn't completely died off is because the only other MMO in the comic niche is what 5/6 years old now?
Wait until DC Universe Online, Marvel Universe Online, and City of Heroes 2 come out. Then talk.
Alltern8 Blog | Star Wars Space Combat and The Old Republic | Cryptic Studios - A Pre Post-Mortem | Klingon Preview, STO's Monster Play
So, you're in favour of commercial fraud?
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Tell that to the SWG players.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
I agree with you in theory that the killing off bad of MMO game/developer/publisher, to show other developers that a rushed out product is not the way to make a long term profit is how things should work but sadly that is not whats has happened over the years. AoC, a big AAA title that was hyped to hell, rushed out the door in a wretched state and suffered because of this could be considered the first of the more recent failures. Now as a MMO gamer I hoped this would stand as a lesson to other companies as how not to handle there product. Then Warhammer, another AAA title with even more hype came out in an even worse state than AoC despite all the PR bollocks claiming the game would be released when its ready otherwise know as when the publisher said do it now or else.
So after two big AAA grade titles hit the scrap heap you would think that the rest of the MMO industry would maybe grasp the fact that consumers were not prepaired to to pay a monthly subscription on top of the box price yet the likes of STO not only is rushed out the door but has to be one off the worst MMO games to carry the title of an MMO. Its lack of content, tiny instanced boxes and lack of any diversions to entertain the player in their journey from level 1 to 45 shows STO is nothing more than a single player game with some online features that most console single player games never mind PC games do better.
I'm a lifer and I'm taking a break from STO. I don't need to point out the reasons, that should be obvious, but I don't plan on trying to get my money back or even looking into a lawsuit. The game needs more work plain and simple. I'll play it again but not until theres something new or different to do in game.
I don't have any hard feelings about my sub either and if the game becomes a bust so be it. I decided to take a chance and purchase the lifetime sub all on my own, all the info about the game was there and they had the open beta so it's not like anyone didn't know what they were getting into, unless you were stupid enough to buy it sight unseen.
Life is a gamble some decissions pay off and some don't plain and simple. So far, this one hasn't really paid off and as a Lifer I'm not ashamed to admit it.
I have to agree with Terra. If CO/STO had been major hits, then other devs would look at their crappy business plan of churning out subpar MMOs built on lame engines with cash shops for things that shouldn't be in cash shops in P2P MMOs every 18-24 months and copy it. Cryptic and their games need to fail hard so they can be held out as a model of how NOT to make a MMO and do business in general.
Pretty much this
Who knows the lifers might have got it right and in two years time we'll all be begging for lifetime subs to the most improved mmo ever...
...and then again no.
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
In terms of making a profit - I'm not at all sure EITHER of these games has been a failure for Cryptic.
If that is true - they will keep with their business model.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Im not sure how you cant conisder this a failure, its fricking Star Trek and they still blew it. This game should be doing awesome and I guarantee you their projected numbers(every business does projections for each year) didnt show the game tanking this quickly which in turn means the game is not doing as well as they will have projected. You can take that to the bank.
On a side note by continually launching games like this more and more people are becoming aware of their business practices and wont purchase future games with them so yes this will continue to hit them in the pocketbook for all future projects.
Because this game was such an epic disappointment I have this uncharacteristic desire to see cryptic go down for this. Its not really fair because they are just a bunch of artists and programmers who tried to make a game within a really difficult deadline but still, when I hear interviews with craig Zinc just lying through his teeth, avoiding questions and spouting rhetoric whenever he is faced with some kind of question about why the game is so frakkin boring, it really doesnt make me want to like the company. I just hope someone makes a space game that fits somewhere between STO and EVE.
If they put out another rush-job MMO-lite, will you then admit that they are doing it on purpose? They know what their accounting books look like. We do not.
We have no idea what their license deal for the Trek IP was like. Maybe it was a small rate the first year, and going up in following years. Maybe their plan all along was to drop this game after a year and a half or so.
They did a rush job on a huge, deep IP - either they are complete idiots, or they are not planning for long-term success. Virtually everything they have done with this game screams 'Take the money and run.'
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
It has to do with operation and development costs. Don't forget that CO and STO uses the same platform. There are 3 approaches:
1. Investing a huge amount of money under the expectation of getting huge subscriber numbers, this is pretty much a risk that sometimes works good but others is a disaster.
2. Investing a lot of money but with some restrain, expecting moderate numbers. This is the case of AoC, WAR and others
3. Investing on cheaper operation and development rate costs and work with whatever they can get. While this can look bad. However, it can be more robust to the market changes since it does not require as many subscribers as the previous 2 approaches.
When SWTOR releases, if it goes well then more studios will take the chances, otherwise it will be a warning for future investors.
I really disagree with this idea of promoting games to fail. Let them fail on their own, I think it is the fair thing to do.
Damn you stole my retirement plan idea.
Nope, you can still get a life time scubscription to LotRO. Its always been an option.
Hah!
Yeah, Cryptic certainly hasn't demonstrated any ability to give depth or life to a game. They can talk all they want about improvements, but there's no reason to think they even have the capability of making anything that isn't superficial crap. I'm pretty certain they don't have the desire to.
I'm with MMO Doubter that their business model is probably successful so far. They make a super cheap game and then get tons of money on the box sales, then they spend very little developing those games further (and suck money out of anyone who sticks around paying the monthly fee). Heck, their server structure is built to hand a bunch of people leaving the game without the need for them to obviously shut down servers. Obviously they can move the hardware to other projects as less is needed, but they don't have to do something like what WoW or other games would need to do and announce a shut-down and merge things together.
I don't think such a model can last long with the same business name, as eventually people will learn what Cryptic is about. Unfortunately, I think they could just change their name every several years and keep fleecing people for money. Most gamers aren't going to investigate who the devs are behind a particular product beyond the company.
You're right in that we don't know the financial numbers, but how many people are going to buy another MMO from Cryptic? I know I'm not. People still hate SOE 4.5 years later for what they did to SWG, and if anything Trek fans are even less forgiving.
I'm not a fan of the Champions IP, so I don't know what they were expecting sub number wise, but I'm thinking they are already below their target number. We know their target for STO was 100k, which IMO is pathetic for such a big IP, and two months after launch they are at best at that target and probably already below it with no where to go but down. Cryptic will be hard pressed to ever shake the rep of taking a dump on the Trek franchise.
Kettle calling the pot black imho. Its not so much a case of STO being so much worse than CO just nobody gives a shit about CO at this stage.
If they spit out another one then yeah they are obviously doing it on purpose and I would assume it also means its working for them. If that is the business model they are choosing to go with that is their choice but I won't ever play one of their games. I think its sad if a company is developing as you said by taking the money and run approach but I would like to think as well that people will get smart and stop giving that company $$ and learn from it. I agree 100% that everything they did in STO was money grub and run, luckily for me I was smart enough to not give them any of my money
I pre ordered a standard copy for 24 pound sterling, instead I got the gold edition and when I put the key in it gave me 3 months instead of just 30 days included and I still stopped playing after the first two weeks after launch, what a waste of an IP to a naive leaders over at Cryptic thinking they could pull tihs off.
We're rather attentive gamers though. Beyond some of the REALLY big names in gaming like Bioware, Blizzard, etc, how many people really pay that much attention to what company made a particular game? I think it is rather similar to movie directors or the like. Some people pay close attention to these things, but a lot of people (quite possibly the vast majority) don't -- note how movie ads might go "from the director of <blank>" rather than name the actual director, and I'd think they do this because not enough people would recognize the name.
I am sure some people will not buy any game Cryptic makes after this or at least be highly cautious (wait 6+ months after release) before doing so. Will those be the majority? I don't know.
Of course, like I said earlier, I think even fewer would notice if Cryptic disappeared and a new company showed up run by the same people with a new name.
The majority of players don't read the forums or do any research. I think many at least try to find reviews and the reviewers seem to be onto Cryptic's lite content approach and STO was punished accordingly. Jack was really upset about the STO reviews and will probably put forth a better effort content wise on their next MMO. STO will suffer unfortunately imo. I think Season 1 and 2 are gonna be it for big updates which weren't much to begin with.
even though i agree, its personal, if a.net would out of the blue would charge 15$ for gw2 (and clam down there not!) id get a lifetime sub without even wasting a second. but then again a.net delivered a well made game, on the other hand cryptic fail in so many levels, that i still cant get it out of my head that people WILLINGLY paid for life time subs and on pre order.
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