General Celestial Steed Mount thread:

BloodDuality

I don't play WoW anymore since my gf got bored of it, but I don't agree with them adding more things to their store like this. I am on the side of people that believe that everything should be atainable within the game because I consider myself a completionist (might be the right term). I like to be able to do as much content as possible and collect as much as I can while playing games. Granted many items I will probably never get, but I still have the chance. This just takes more items out of my control unless I want to pay for items that were already created through me paying for my subscription.

I do get the feeling though that these mounts while looking good and being desireable now will not be as unique and special after 90% of the people on the server have bought them and are all using them at the same time. So guess thats one way to look at it if one doesn't want to buy one and still feel good about their decision.

Vyava

Originally posted by Azerin

How are you getting less & less for your money? All players pay $14.99 and have equal rights and access to all the same game content and mechanics. The store items are fluff, I don't spend money on them because they don't appeal to me and they don't add or take away anything from my game experience. Getting mad because other people have the option to buy them and if they do (which to you signifies they have more money), is the same as getting mad at the guy across the street with a set of rims on his car. You both have the option to commute from point A to point B just the same, but his car might look nicer while doing so. Are you gonna be upset that he had the option to add to the appearance of his vehicle for more money and he did?

Give your head a shake for a second and think about what your saying. Blizzard introducing items in the store that would affect character stats, power, access to in-game areas, anything that would grant you an IN-GAME advantage over other players for real money is a totally different concept from adding a couple of fluff items. If that ever happens, yes I will be opposed to that as I'm sure many other players would be, but until then, don't look too much into a couple of items that serve no other purpose than to cater to in-game vanity.

Do you realize your subscription fee went to develop the new mount right? You already paid for the creation of the mount and will continue to do so while you have an active subscription. To buy it directly is simply paying twice for the same development time.

WhiteLantern

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by Azerin

How are you getting less & less for your money? All players pay $14.99 and have equal rights and access to all the same game content and mechanics.

You are getting less for your money because those items would be availalble as in-game content if they weren't in the cash shop.

AS for real world economics - I don't want them in my games. I want all players treated as equals.

All players are not equal. Period.

If I have more dollars than hours, and you have more hours than dollars, we are not equal but a game could balance it out somewhat. This boils down to the F2P vs. P2P argument: cash vs. time. I will never be eqaul to anyone in a P2P game because I don't have as much time to raid and farm, but in a cash-shop game.......

Personally, I have no problem with any item being available for sale, vanity or otherwise. I don't agree that any cash-shop item must be available in-game, but there should be an equvilent of that item in-game (this mount being a re-skinned Invincible).

If they sold re-skinned T10 (or whatever is current) gear for 100$ (pulled that # out-o-my...), people would buy it and people would scream bloody murder. But the game wouldn't be any different; the buyers would be paying more than you, and you would be playing more than them.

And if anybody out there has both money and time, double bonus.

Azerin

Originally posted by Vyava

Originally posted by Azerin

How are you getting less & less for your money? All players pay $14.99 and have equal rights and access to all the same game content and mechanics. The store items are fluff, I don't spend money on them because they don't appeal to me and they don't add or take away anything from my game experience. Getting mad because other people have the option to buy them and if they do (which to you signifies they have more money), is the same as getting mad at the guy across the street with a set of rims on his car. You both have the option to commute from point A to point B just the same, but his car might look nicer while doing so. Are you gonna be upset that he had the option to add to the appearance of his vehicle for more money and he did?

Give your head a shake for a second and think about what your saying. Blizzard introducing items in the store that would affect character stats, power, access to in-game areas, anything that would grant you an IN-GAME advantage over other players for real money is a totally different concept from adding a couple of fluff items. If that ever happens, yes I will be opposed to that as I'm sure many other players would be, but until then, don't look too much into a couple of items that serve no other purpose than to cater to in-game vanity.

Do you realize your subscription fee went to develop the new mount right? You already paid for the creation of the mount and will continue to do so while you have an active subscription. To buy it directly is simply paying twice for the same development time.

Honestly....I could care less if my sub fees for the last year all went to the development of this one mount. Why? Because not having this mount does NOT affect my gameplay or enjoyment of it one bit. It is one freaking mount, it's people like you who feel you must be entitled to every dam little thing in the game just because you pay $14.99 a month that are having a serious issue with this. Anyway, what is $14.99 a month these days compared to other forms of entertainment?. And seriously, how much time and money did Blizz really have to spend to have one of their art guys re-skin the mount that drops from Arthas...which ALL players have a chance to earn in-game btw. People seem to forget that at the end of the day, Blizzard is still a business, and businesses need to profit.

gandales

Originally posted by Vyava

Originally posted by Azerin

How are you getting less & less for your money? All players pay $14.99 and have equal rights and access to all the same game content and mechanics. The store items are fluff, I don't spend money on them because they don't appeal to me and they don't add or take away anything from my game experience. Getting mad because other people have the option to buy them and if they do (which to you signifies they have more money), is the same as getting mad at the guy across the street with a set of rims on his car. You both have the option to commute from point A to point B just the same, but his car might look nicer while doing so. Are you gonna be upset that he had the option to add to the appearance of his vehicle for more money and he did?

Give your head a shake for a second and think about what your saying. Blizzard introducing items in the store that would affect character stats, power, access to in-game areas, anything that would grant you an IN-GAME advantage over other players for real money is a totally different concept from adding a couple of fluff items. If that ever happens, yes I will be opposed to that as I'm sure many other players would be, but until then, don't look too much into a couple of items that serve no other purpose than to cater to in-game vanity.

Do you realize your subscription fee went to develop the new mount right? You already paid for the creation of the mount and will continue to do so while you have an active subscription. To buy it directly is simply paying twice for the same development time.

How do you know that? It would be an accounting issue. They could have a budget independent for developing cosmetic items for sell. It is pretty much silly the argument, you might rather they didn't create that mount at all, just because you don't want to pay for it. I am tired of this argument of what is included in the monthly subscription, it has never included developing, while is a common practice to use it for that, it is basically to keep subscriptions but there is no obligation even having a minimum of gameplay available. it is all about free market, you don't like how blizzard manage their games, just don't play them and move on. 

Daffid011

Originally posted by Azerin

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by Azerin

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

It used to be that you got 'fluff' items from - oh - playing the game.

You still can...

Not these ones.

I don't understand some people. So what, 2 or 3 fluff items in the game have to be bought with real money, the rest can be earned or bought in-game, and you start whining? Get a grip, if your life or game experience is affected so negatively by such an insignificant feature,  you are too emotionally invested in the game in the first place.

So tell us Azerin, when will it be acceptable to complain about things like this?  Just how many items have to be offered in a cash store before you allow people to complain about it?  100?  10% of all the items created?  50%.  Where exactly does the line get crossed?

As for the "fluff" not affecting play, it does.  Just because these things do not have stats or abilities doens't mean they don't affect the game and they are not things that some people value more than stats.  Traditionally these items would be tied to a quest or achievement.  Now that has been removed and gameplay have been replaced with a cash fee.  Developers are asking players to pay money to NOT play the game.  Think about that.  You are defending developers removing gameplay for an optional fee. 

There are many people who love to collect things like this.  They could care fuck all about stats and dps charts.  They enjoy titles, pets, mounts and tons of other vanity items that you so quckly dimsiss as meaningless.

Now ask yourself when it becomes a problem.  How many mounts, pets, titles, achievements, graphics, quests, etc have to be removed for you to consider it a problem.  If you answer is anything but "everyone of them", then you are in silent agreement that this is a problem, but it just has not crossed your threshold yet. 

 

If and when it does cross your tolerance level, please keep in mind that you were the one shouting down those who disagreed with the entire principle of the this and empowering companies to take these actions.  The whole "its not a big deal" mentality is exactly what developers count on so they can continue to push more and more into this area and you are defending it. 

This is nothing more than grooming players to accept these sorts of things and I think it sucks on any level. 

Scalebane

i hear wanting to make money is bad, i'm sure nobody here asks for raises or anything like that.

i'll never tell people to stop complaining.  i mean whatever makes them feel better they should do i suppose.

well except for like killing stuff, thats just bad.

dmcg

I think its very lame no matter if it doesnt have much of an effect on players well 310% mount kinda does but still , shops belong in f2p mmos not p2p ones

MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by Scalebane

i hear wanting to make money is bad, i'm sure nobody here asks for raises or anything like that.

i'll never tell people to stop complaining.  i mean whatever makes them feel better they should do i suppose.

well except for like killing stuff, thats just bad.

How many businesses have customers who defend worse service for the same fee?

In a capitalist economy, the customers benefit when they get more for less money. The company benefits when they get more money for less service. It is an antagonistic relationship.

Player_420

lol it seems a lot of you arent even reading the rules behind the mount....

It's pretty much a mount that some newer player whos still going for lvl 80 can buy to look cool, that scales with what he has purchased in game like the rest of the players.

EVE has a much worse system that can be abused and literally is equal to "ez mode ISK buy for ez mode win"

but EVE has a perfectly fine system as well because those who avidly play the game know it, are comfortable and used to it....same with a lot of WoW players with the new fluff items

know who doesnt? Cryptic....

Player_420

Originally posted by dmcg

I think its very lame no matter if it doesnt have much of an effect on players well 310% mount kinda does but still , shops belong in f2p mmos not p2p ones

its only 310% if you actually have a 310% mount....which not many people do

Torik

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by Torik

In this case the amount of 'less and less' is so insignificant for the majority of people that it is the equivalent of not picking up a penny from the sidewalk.   We could complain and boycott the game over this but we rather put our energy into something productive.  There are a ton of pets and mounts in the game I will never get so who cares about some of them being even less obtainable. 

So, as long as it doesn't affect you - anything is fair game? That's a very selfish attitude. I don't even play the game anymore, but it still stinks for those who do. Think about where it will lead, and decide if it is still okay.

To be fair I think that people who are affected by this have some serious emotional issues and should see a professional to help them resolve it.  As such I will not advocate a boycott of Blizzard in support of people I find emotionally unstable.

I do not obsess over what a company could do when that company has every right to do so and they are not cheating me in any way.  Until you are talking about actual human rights abuses I do not believe in sticking my nose in other people's business when it does not affect me.

jimmyman99

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by Azerin

I don't understand some people. So what, 2 or 3 fluff items in the game have to be bought with real money, the rest can be earned or bought in-game, and you start whining? Get a grip, if your life or game experience is affected so negatively by such an insignificant feature,  you are too emotionally invested in the game in the first place.

You know what I don't understand? People who are fine with getting less and less for their money. I also don't understand people who are fine with a game treating people who spend more money better.

How many items have to be diverted to the cash shop to convince you that you are getting less value than you used to?

Will you object if game-changing items go in, or will there be another "yeah, but...".

You are NOT getting less. You haven't gained anything, but you haven't lost anything too. The new mount and pet are optional and did not take away anything from you. I personaly never bought anything in game for real money, so I don't care about these things - they do not affect me whatsoever nor have they changed my gameplay (in positive or negative way).

MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by jimmyman99

You are NOT getting less. You haven't gained anything, but you haven't lost anything too. The new mount and pet are optional and did not take away anything from you. I personaly never bought anything in game for real money, so I don't care about these things - they do not affect me whatsoever nor have they changed my gameplay (in positive or negative way).

Wrong. This stuff would be available in-game if it hadn't gone to the cash shop instead, and that is a major reason to oppose the shop.

zone16

This DOES alter gameplay. It ruins the realm economy. On my realm there's a guy who sold 20 mount codes for 20k gold each making him one of richest people on the server. Now he can screw up the economy in any way he wants. And no, he won't get banned. There was a ton of people selling codes for pets too before. It's just that the pets werent popular as much so it didn't do any damage.

You don't even need gold sellers anymore. Just buy a few mount codes and you're rich! Yay for legal gold buying!

MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by zone16

This DOES alter gameplay. It ruins the realm economy. On my realm there's a guy who sold 20 mount codes for 20k gold each making him one of richest people on the server. Now he can screw up the economy in any way he wants. And no, he won't get banned. There was a ton of people selling codes for pets too before. It's just that the pets werent popular as much so it didn't do any damage.

He will ikely be banned. Making money off virtual items is wrong - right, Blizzard?

Oh - not when you do it? I see.

When the lawyers clue in to this industry - it's going to be quite a circus.

jimmyman99

Originally posted by Daffid011

Originally posted by Azerin

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by Azerin

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

It used to be that you got 'fluff' items from - oh - playing the game.

You still can...

Not these ones.

I don't understand some people. So what, 2 or 3 fluff items in the game have to be bought with real money, the rest can be earned or bought in-game, and you start whining? Get a grip, if your life or game experience is affected so negatively by such an insignificant feature,  you are too emotionally invested in the game in the first place.

So tell us Azerin, when will it be acceptable to complain about things like this?  Just how many items have to be offered in a cash store before you allow people to complain about it?  100?  10% of all the items created?  50%.  Where exactly does the line get crossed?

As for the "fluff" not affecting play, it does.  Just because these things do not have stats or abilities doens't mean they don't affect the game and they are not things that some people value more than stats.  Traditionally these items would be tied to a quest or achievement.  Now that has been removed and gameplay have been replaced with a cash fee.  Developers are asking players to pay money to NOT play the game.  Think about that.  You are defending developers removing gameplay for an optional fee. 

There are many people who love to collect things like this.  They could care fuck all about stats and dps charts.  They enjoy titles, pets, mounts and tons of other vanity items that you so quckly dimsiss as meaningless.

Now ask yourself when it becomes a problem.  How many mounts, pets, titles, achievements, graphics, quests, etc have to be removed for you to consider it a problem.  If you answer is anything but "everyone of them", then you are in silent agreement that this is a problem, but it just has not crossed your threshold yet. 

 

If and when it does cross your tolerance level, please keep in mind that you were the one shouting down those who disagreed with the entire principle of the this and empowering companies to take these actions.  The whole "its not a big deal" mentality is exactly what developers count on so they can continue to push more and more into this area and you are defending it. 

This is nothing more than grooming players to accept these sorts of things and I think it sucks on any level. 

Green:

 It doesn't matter how many items are in the shop as long as there is at least 1 item of the same function obtainable by regular means. What I mean is, even if there was only one mount purchasable by in-game gold, and 1000 mounts purchasable by real money, It would still be OK, because you would have the same functionality of a mount. They would just look differently. If you are bothered by this idea, you are playing the wrong game. WoW is not about "looks", well, not the main focus of WoW anyway.

Yellow:

are you for real? "how your mount looks" does NOT affect gameplay. Please check the definition of gameplay because you are confusing gameplay with something else. And I have no idea what else you are confusing it with. Things that affect gameplay: mount speed... well, thats about all that affects the gameplay. Mounts are used for one thing only - transportation. Nother else really affects your gameplay. I dont know how possibly a griffin mount would change your gameplay  compared to a drake mount. Unless you are insane that is.

Teal

  Ok, collecting things are very important to you. However, if that is more important to you then playing the game itself, thenyou are playing the wrong game. Fluff stuff is just that... fluff. It was made to add to the main game, not BE the main focus of the game.

MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by jimmyman99

If you are bothered by this idea, you are playing the wrong game. WoW is not about "looks", well, not the main focus of WoW anyway.

LOL. Are you serious? Not about looks? I do not think you are aware of the typical player's mind-set. Have you seen the discussions about each new armour set's looks as they are released?

FreddyNoNose

Originally posted by Kyleran

I don't play WOW so no big deal, but I am firmly against anything being sold in cash shops that cannot be obtained by every player in the game who choses not to.

I know others disagree and say its no big deal, they're cosmetic only, but that's not the point, for my 14.99 I want access to 100% of the game's content and items (even if some I'll never see because I'd have to conquer dungeon boss 323 to actually get it on a .0005% drop rate)

 I think they really started training their playerbase to like buying items with the introduction of special currency to purchase items.  Get 50 emblems/badges or whatever you want to call the currency to buy your new fancy purple.  People love them over the random drop (not I).  So it gets your mind trained to purchase items and it is only one step away from making it a cash transaction.

jimmyman99

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by jimmyman99

You are NOT getting less. You haven't gained anything, but you haven't lost anything too. The new mount and pet are optional and did not take away anything from you. I personaly never bought anything in game for real money, so I don't care about these things - they do not affect me whatsoever nor have they changed my gameplay (in positive or negative way).

Wrong. This stuff would be available in-game if it hadn't gone to the cash shop instead, and that is a major reason to oppose the shop.

Wrong. What you did not get, you did not lose. Its very simple. In order for something to lose, you have to HAVE that something. You never had the mount free of charge (obtainable through regular means). So you never lost it.

jimmyman99

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by jimmyman99

If you are bothered by this idea, you are playing the wrong game. WoW is not about "looks", well, not the main focus of WoW anyway.

LOL. Are you serious? Not about looks? I do not think you are aware of the typical player's mind-set. Have you seen the discussions about each new armour set's looks as they are released?

Yes, those discussions are only 0.01% of  other types of discussions - mainly how to defeat bosses, what are the best enchants/gems for a class, which stats are the best, etc etc. Just because there are 1000 discussions about looks means nothing if you compare to million of discussions about stats/skills/spells/classes. WoW is not a dress up game. YOu need to play barbie online to get a dress-up fix.

ForceQuit

Originally posted by Dreathor

I don't think Blizzard would be stupid enough to put up items that actually affect gameplay, to be honest.

I don't think you fully understand what Activision and Bobby Kotick are capable of.

Comnitus

Originally posted by jimmyman99

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by jimmyman99

You are NOT getting less. You haven't gained anything, but you haven't lost anything too. The new mount and pet are optional and did not take away anything from you. I personaly never bought anything in game for real money, so I don't care about these things - they do not affect me whatsoever nor have they changed my gameplay (in positive or negative way).

Wrong. This stuff would be available in-game if it hadn't gone to the cash shop instead, and that is a major reason to oppose the shop.

Wrong. What you did not get, you did not lose. Its very simple. In order for something to lose, you have to HAVE that something. You never had the mount free of charge (obtainable through regular means). So you never lost it.

Besides that point, how does Doubter know that it would be in the game at all if it weren't for the cash shop? Yes, there's a chance they would've added it in and made it available through normal means, but there's a better chance that they wouldn't. Why would they? There's little incentive. With a cash shop, there's clear motivation: a little extra money on the side. And if you don't want to pay for it, you don't get it. Out of the thousands of items in WoW, you don't get one. Too bad, so sad.

Torik

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by jimmyman99

You are NOT getting less. You haven't gained anything, but you haven't lost anything too. The new mount and pet are optional and did not take away anything from you. I personaly never bought anything in game for real money, so I don't care about these things - they do not affect me whatsoever nor have they changed my gameplay (in positive or negative way).

Wrong. This stuff would be available in-game if it hadn't gone to the cash shop instead, and that is a major reason to oppose the shop.

What makes you think that the extra pets and mounts would be available in the game if there was no cash shop?  Blizzard was under no obligation to create them so the pets and mount would probably not exist without the cash shop.  It's not like you paid Blizzard specificly to creat them.

Distopia

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by Azerin

I don't understand some people. So what, 2 or 3 fluff items in the game have to be bought with real money, the rest can be earned or bought in-game, and you start whining? Get a grip, if your life or game experience is affected so negatively by such an insignificant feature,  you are too emotionally invested in the game in the first place.

You know what I don't understand? People who are fine with getting less and less for their money. I also don't understand people who are fine with a game treating people who spend more money better.

How many items have to be diverted to the cash shop to convince you that you are getting less value than you used to?

Will you object if game-changing items go in, or will there be another "yeah, but...".

Technically it's if you pay more you get more, anyway..

If you don't want to pay more you're still getting what you've been paying 14.99 a month for.

It sounds to me like you're concerning yourself far to much with how others spend their money, and the value they place on such "fluff" items. If it's not for you don't partake it's as simple as that. Let others spend and do as they please.